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Microsoft Fires Mac Fan For Blog Photo

christor writes "Microsoft has fired a full-time temp employee after it discovered that the employee posted in his blog a photo and story concerning Microsoft's purchase of what looks to be around 18 G5s. Check out the blog entry, Even Microsoft wants G5s, and the one that follows it. Microsoft fired the blogger, despite an offer to take the posting down. Note that this is not a free speech issue, even though the blog was hosted on a non-company server, because Microsoft is not, yet, the government. But it does present several other interesting issues, including that of the trade-off between the bad publicity that comes from the firing and whatever bad results follow when employees feel free to post such things."

117 of 1,087 comments (clear)

  1. so what ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Bill Gates is God, I just don't believe in him.

    1. Re:so what ? by fmaxwell · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This guy's mistake was mixing up his personal life and his work life.

      Let's look at this from an ethics standpoint. If the guy had posted a picture of himself dressed as Mary Poppins frolicking in his yard, then it's not an issue for his work. If he published pictures of his personally owned Windows PC blue-screening and bitched about it in his blog, that's not cause for Microsoft to take action against him, either.

      It's when you cross that line between home and work that it gets ugly. The guy took digital photos of his employer's non-public building areas while there as an employee. He identified himself as a Microsoft employee, in what department he worked, and in what building. He used poor judgement and he knows it. Microsoft didn't commit some horrible atrocity against the Mac community by firing the guy. They did not quelch his free speech rights. They fired some loose cannon who was wandering around the campus taking digital photos and posting them on his own web page. The whole story is just sensationalistic: Microsoft Fires Mac Fan For Blog Photo. It had nothing to do with his being a "Mac Fan." What's next?

      Your Rights Online: Microsoft Fires Linux User For Exercising Constitutional Rights

      somegeek writes "Microsoft has fired a full-time temp employee after it discovered that the employee was carrying a loaded Uzi submachine gun around the campus in his backpack. Microsoft fired the Linux user, despite the person's offer to put the Uzi back in his car...
      Come on folks.
    2. Re:so what ? by hackhound · · Score: 2, Redundant

      The simple fact of the matter was this guy was a temp. Microsoft did not fire him, and he has absolutely NO job security. I worked as a temp doing a Y2K upgrade for Ci**bank, and they have the right to dismiss anybody at anytime for any reason. That's just one of the many fun aspects of being a temp.

    3. Re:so what ? by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The guy took digital photos of his employer's non-public building areas while there as an employee.

      So what? It's not a bank, a nuclear research facility, the changing rooms of Moulin Rouge; it's an office building. And if you look at the actual photo, it wasn't even that, but the interior of a truck making a delivery.

      MS, through hiring staff as "permanent temps" can fire them for no cause, so there is no legal recourse But what harm could conceivably be done to MS I can't imagine. It's hardly a secret that MS uses Macs, since they have a Mac Business Unit to port Office.

      And in all the places I've worked, no one has ever cared what snaps anyone took or what they did with them. I sense somehow that the "terrorism" angle is the subtext. It's become an excellent pretext for stomping on people's rights.

    4. Re:so what ? by Farce+Pest · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your analogy might be better if he had been going around stealing people's souls with his camera., although some would argue Macs *do* have souls. Perhaps Microsoft was worried that he was cutting into their territory.

      --
      This message has been scanned for memes and dangerous content by MindScanner, and is believed to be unclean.
    5. Re:so what ? by dipipanone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many companies have policies about photographing the work place which can lead to termination if broken.

      Sure. The company had every right to do what it did, nobody would dispute that.

      The more interesting question is, was firing him a reasonable response, when he would have been perfectly happy to take down the site and no further damage would have been done?

      As I say, Microsoft have every right to behave like the Stazi in the way that they manage their workplace, but in that case, I'm pretty damn sure that I wouldn't want to work there.

      Others might be only too happy to be employed by vindictive, power-crazed arseholes, and I wish nothing but good luck to them in what is sure to be an eventful if somewhat frustrating and humiliating career.

    6. Re:so what ? by fmaxwell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So what? It's not a bank, a nuclear research facility, the changing rooms of Moulin Rouge; it's an office building.

      Was he hired to take digital photos of company property? It's not his office building. It's theirs. If they don't want photos of it floating around the net, that's their call.

      Think about the questions that go through the minds of the security people: Today it was the loading dock but what will it be tomorrow? The new X-Box, our development lab? Photos of company-proprietary memos? Why is the guy wandering around the campus taking pictures with a digital camera?

      You also don't seem to understand how industrial espionage works. They might be just Macs to you. Someone else might have other information that they are able to put together with that in order to ascertain something that Microsoft wishes to keep secret.

      And in all the places I've worked, no one has ever cared what snaps anyone took or what they did with them.

      Where have you worked? JC Penney and Walmart? Most engineering firms are very guarded and don't want pictures of their facilities distributed over the Internet.

    7. Re:so what ? by Aidtopia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft allegedly fired him because he created a security risk. But if that were the real reason, then they should have happily accepted his offer to remove the posting. By firing him, they've ensured that the posting stays public and that it gets more publicity. That doesn't seem to correct the security problem.

      I'm not sure what MS's real reason was. The security concern seems exaggerated, and the publicity problem is minor. My guess is MS has some other beef with this guy and they saw this as an opportunity to get rid of him. Then again, if he was a temp, it shouldn't have been that hard to unload him.

      So it does make me wonder what the real reason is.

    8. Re:so what ? by fmaxwell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft allegedly fired him because he created a security risk. But if that were the real reason, then they should have happily accepted his offer to remove the posting.

      The guy was wandering the campus with a digital camera taking pictures of non-public areas. Wouldn't that make you a bit suspicious if you were in corporate security? Wouldn't you wonder how many other pictures he had taken and who he had given them to? Why should Microsoft take a chance on some temp when there are hundreds of others lined up at their doors begging for jobs?

      So it does make me wonder what the real reason is.

      Right... It's Microsoft, so there must be some nefararious, hidden, evil plan at work. I forgot. Sorry.

    9. Re:so what ? by chicogeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How in the world did this get marked 'Troll'? This guy is right on and just because he doesn't support the /. Mac-fanboy position he gets moderated as a Troll. Come on...

    10. Re:so what ? by krawz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can understand Microsoft's concern about this gentleman's "breach" of security. I myself work in the R&D department of a major automotive manufacturer. In most cases, new employees must sign a non-disclosure form upon being hired, which outlines the do's and dont's of security, photography, etc. Being a temp just makes it that much easier for them to let you go. If, on the other hand, this guy had been an exec, I'm sure the issue would have been buried. This may be rightfully viewed as favoritism or contrastly just plain logical on the part of Human Resources. After all, temps are pretty expendable.

      Bias against Microsoft of course plays a big part in people's judgement as to whether the action was right or wrong in a moral sense as well since a large part of the masses is either anti-MS or hears so much anti-M$ propaganda, that they believe it must be so.

      The bottom line is, read all the papers you sign, and know the policies of your company before taking actions that you are unsure of. This story should never have gotten press from Slashdot in my humble opinion, and stories like this cannot create an unbiased atmosphere for discussion, when the very essence of this story leans toward anti-MS propaganda.

      --
      I do respect your opinion. It's not my fault that you're wrong.
    11. Re:so what ? by ShinmaWa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Where have you worked? JC Penney and Walmart? Most engineering firms are very guarded and don't want pictures of their facilities distributed over the Internet.

      I know you meant individual stores, but its been my experience that retail corporate offices have security policies that would put some engineering outfits to shame. Corporate espionage runs completely rampant in that sector and things like Memorial Day sale prices are kept like were the plans to nuclear weapons. Its absolutely stunning.

      --
      The /. Effect: Thousands of users simultaneously accessing a site to not read its content.
    12. Re:so what ? by scenic · · Score: 4, Insightful
      the picture wasn't of any "facility" but of a truck, 2 palettes of G5's, and some trees. Not a buidling (save the loading dock at the bottom edge) in sight.

      Look, you can say that they have a right to protect whatever, but the photographs have no discerning characteristics. He even took care to make sure of that. More importantly, the photo is of just macs... which we all know they get because they have a Mac unit.

      So... your theories are great but ultimately not relevant. If they truly cared about future incidents they could've asked him to take the photo down, reprimanded him, and then sent email to the company asking that people don't do that.

      But, instead they just fired the guy. Your theories don't mesh with the other facts.

      --

      politics, food, music, life: FatMixx

    13. Re:so what ? by fmaxwell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, I just can't parse those few sentences.

      Why? They were syntactically and grammatically correct, used no unusual words, and were not overly long.

      One employee owned a digital camera, and happened to have it with him for work, stuffed in his bag.

      How did he take a photo with the camera inside his "bag."? Why did he have his bag at the loading dock when he worked in the print shop?

      Taking a single picture of a public area, the door, making every effort to conceal the nature of the building

      What steaming, utter bullshit! It was not a public area. If it's a public area, drive your car onto the campus and then go to that supposed "public" area. My guess? You'll be arrested. And how do you know how many pictures he took and of what?

      Eh, no? An employee owning a camera, and using it outside of work? Shock horror!

      Did you even look at the picture? The picture was shot from INSIDE of the building. How can it be "outside of work" when he's inside of the building where he works?

      In your world, employees have no rights what so ever and can be put on the unemployment line with a twitch of the corporate finger.

      If by "[my] world", you mean the real world, then, sadly, yes. Employers can terminate employees without cause.

      In my world, an employee can be fired for

      1. Gross incompetence
      2. Lack of work
      3. There is no number three.


      Great. Get me a job in your world. I'd like a job where I could steal computers, be insubordinate, show up in shorts and t-shirts every day, work whatever hours I chose, and spend my lunch hour banging some exhibitionist chick on the conference room table.

  2. Where were those G5 going?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I bet they were going to Windows Longhorn R&D-department. :)

    1. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I interviewed at Microsoft last week. One of my interviewers had both a Linux machine and a G5 in his office.


      I don't think there is that much OS discrimination within the company, with the exception that each developer needs to have a windows machine for obvious reasons. I think MS fired him because he was blatently trying to embarrass the company.


      MS is making a big push towards platform independent applications via managed code. I heard from one employee that the vast majority of products will need to be re-written for the .NET Framework sometime during 2004, with little exceptions. Everything from Outlook to Live Meeting will be rewritten in managed code. That being said, I would not be surprised in the least if these machines were going to random employees who requested them, OR the .NET Framework team who just might be working on a OS X port for the .NET Framework.

    2. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by DrEldarion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, considering that they DO develop mac software (Office, IE), I don't think it's really a mystery why they wanted the boxes.

    3. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by azzy · · Score: 2, Funny

      > I interviewed at Microsoft last week. One of my interviewers had both a Linux machine and a G5 in his office.

      That's it, you're not going to be hired now.

    4. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think there is that much OS discrimination within the company, with the exception that each developer needs to have a windows machine for obvious reasons. I think MS fired him because he was blatently trying to embarrass the company.

      This is not really the issue (or it's very unlikely that it's the case).

      There are probably two factors that played a role. First, while the particular picture is not a big deal, maintaining a policy of not sending out pictures *is* a big deal. If people get in the habit of snapping pictures, sooner or later, important data will leak. Where I work, you just can't have cameras, and just can't take pictures. It's not unusual. Most companies won't just let you walk in and start taking pictures wherever you want. I've known people over the course of my life that *have* been involved in corporate espionage, and a small camera is a seriously useful tool for someone who can't afford to be standing in front of something for a couple of minutes scribbling things down on a clipboard. It's not an unreasonable policy demand at all, though I think it should probably be made more clear to temps. I applaud the guy for not flying off the handle over this.

      Second of all, this information *could* be damaging. It's a pretty safe bet that Microsoft conducts competitive research (though the building name tends to make me think that this is not the case). If competitors know what Microsoft is examining, it could put them on guard as to what Microsoft is trying to use from them. Furthermore, it lets them arm the lawyers, so that the moment Microsoft steps near infringing on a patent or whatnot, they can smack them. In this particular case, there's not a lot of suspicious information, but if, say, Microsoft was picking up a handful of iPods, something that doesn't generally have a direct business application (and it seems unlikely that the guy here would stop at snapping a picture with a caption of "Even Microsoft Wants iPods"), things might be a bit worse. Even if it's not competitive research, the contents of a company's loading docks can be quite valuable information. If Boeing has crates and crates marked "titanium sheets" sitting around, you can damn well bet that other airplane-producing defense contractors will be very interested. If Sony's Aibo division has a bunch of bales of fake fur on their loading docks, competitors have a good guess as to where the product is going, and time to produce marketing campaigns and make deals appropriately.

      So...I have to say that I can see how frusterating it is for the temp guy, but it's not as if Microsoft Security is firing him for liking Macs and working at Microsoft. Hell, of the people I know that have worked at Microsoft, two of them really like Linux, and one kept a Tux doll in his cubicle. MS doesn't really care about something like that -- they care about potential leaks, or precedent being set that could lead to future leaks.

    5. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by Directrix1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, Microsoft develops some Mac software correct?

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    6. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by pi+radians · · Score: 2, Informative

      They no longer develop IE for Macintosh. But they still do Office and now they are the developers for Virtual PC (something that doesn't work on G5s just yet).

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
    7. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by Nintendork · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Hell, of the people I know that have worked at Microsoft, two of them really like Linux, and one kept a Tux doll in his cubicle. MS doesn't really care about something like that -- they care about potential leaks, or precedent being set that could lead to future leaks.

      I'll back you up on that statement. I was supporting Microsoft products (Windows 2000 Professional. Then NT Server, Services for Unix, Services for Macintosh, and Proxy 2.0.) through an outsourcer and had plenty of contact and meetings with regular employees as well as temps (a- accounts). There are several employees that are fans of other OSes. Heck, I personally had a big 20th Anniversary Macintosh poster in my cubicle. Microsoft understands diversity and embraces it in the company.

      On the other hand, if you come to work taking pictures of internal affairs and publish them on the web with blatant intentions of making your employer look bad, how the fuck do you expect them to react!?!

      -Lucas

    8. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by Maserati · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The DoD and intelligence community may very well ban picturephones for security reasons. They banned Furby's because of the recording chip.

      --
      Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
    9. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Come on, the camera as security issue is bogus. What are you gonna do, stop everyone with a cell phone because you can now snap 1.2 megapixel pictures with some models and send them in real time?

      Yes. It wasn't long ago that there was an article on Slashdot about how some big Japanese company with a research wing was banning the use of camera cell phones.

      Even companies that allow people to carry them may have policies against use of the camera on company grounds. This is difficult to enforce, yes...but as it happened, if someone posted pictures to a weblog and an exec got ahold of them, they'd know that they were taking pictures.

      No, it wasn't even a question of security, because the first question they asked him is if it (the page in question) was hosted on a Microsoft-owned server (wtf - they couldn't even do a traceroute? oops, forgot - this is Microsoft, not the most tech-savvy company out there by a long shot).

      This is unreasonable on your part. Microsoft is not limited to paying for machines in the MICROSOFT.NET and MICROSOFT.COM domains. A number of companies use cohosting/colocation services. Microsoft, if working on a project, especially with outsiders, could easily be using a system not in their regular domain. Sure, it probably wasn't going to be true, but it likely provides the company with legal ammunition (there may be a policy against non-work-related personal use of Microsoft-owned systems), and they then have witnessed claims from him.

      If it had been, they would have sacked him for misuse of company property. Since they couldn't they went to their fall-back position, which is that it was a breech of security to let the general public know where the building was located - never mind that the location is already public knowledge - city hall has it, the public utilities have it, the phone company has a detailed layout of the whole site, delivery companies have it, former employees have it (unless they're being mind-wiped on termination), yada yada yada. It's not a secret, so their excuse was typical microsoft bullshit.

      They almost certainly aren't trying to prevent people from knowing the "location of the building". You didn't read my post -- I was arguing that they were worried about precedent-setting and possibly the contents of the loading dock itself.

      As far as preventing leaks, this is a company with a history of leaking like a sieve halloween is here - we want more halloween documents, just like their products.

      Ridiculous. Microsoft took reasonable precautions -- this is legally significant if a leaking employee gets isolated and a trade secret case can be made -- to keep those memos secret. They were probably not sent to outside addresses, etc. There is no way a company the size of MS can stop internal memos from leaking completely, and leaks in the past *certainly* do not mean that the company should throw up their hands and give up on plugging current leaks.

    10. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by leerpm · · Score: 4, Informative

      Come on, the camera as security issue is bogus. What are you gonna do, stop everyone with a cell phone because you can now snap 1.2 megapixel pictures with some models and send them in real time?

      Yes, cell phones with built-in digital cameras have been banned in several major research & development labs even as of this moment today. This includes facilities at Samsung Electronics, and at least one of the major domestic car manufacturers (GM or Ford -- trying to find the story for it now).

    11. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by Lars+T. · · Score: 3, Insightful
      On the other hand, if you come to work taking pictures of internal affairs and publish them on the web with blatant intentions of making your employer look bad, how the fuck do you expect them to react!?!

      If they think Even Microsoft wants G5s is making them look bad, they better not read the stories about how they fired that guy.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    12. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by Patik · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They banned Furby's because of the recording chip.
      Why don't they ban cell phones alltogether? You could easily call up a voice mail box, drop the cell phone in your pocket, and record a couple minutes of audio that way.
    13. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by jez9999 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can't take a cellphone of any sort into a secure US government facility. ANYTHING which might be capable of carrying data out of the building must be surrendered when you leave.

      That probably explains the lack of braincells in the US government.

    14. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful
      fud, fud, fud.

      Criminal trespass is the unlawful access by a person to anothers' property. Your example (McDonalds) is not only lame - it's not true. I can walk into a McDonalds (not that I would - I've been boycotting them since they started making pizzas) with a group of friends, order a meal, and start snapping pictures of our little party.

      If they were to even try to physically confiscate the camera, I would be well within my rights to call the police and sue for assault. So, where was the trespass? Hell, I can even take pictures of what is plainly in view and they can't say anything, as long as I'm there as a customer.

      They would have to have the "no cameras" ban posted prominently AS YOU ENTER THE STORE. Anything else just won't cut it in court. For example, you see the "No dogs allowed" sign (which I fortunately am allowed to ignore - lucky me, life isn't a total suck :-) AT THE DOOR, not at the back of the building.

      This is the same rationale that the MPAA wanted to ban text messaging because people were texting each other during the movie to say "the hulk sux".

      They're going to have to get used to the idea that, in a wired world, what goes on in public is available for public consumption and recording for posterity.

      It's the same as using your phone while in WalMart to call your buddy at CostCo to find out which of the two has the better price this week. Not only not illegal, but attempting to stop you would be a federal crime, as it is interference with a lawful telecommunication.

      Remember, just because most people don't know their rights doesn't mean that those rights cease to exist for everyone.

    15. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by matth · · Score: 2, Funny

      Interesting.. don't they MAKE the camera phones at Samsung? :)

    16. Re:Where were those G5 going?!? by dipipanone · · Score: 3, Funny

      Even stores and restaurants (like McDonald's) have policies against cameras being used and at the very least will escort you out if they catch you taking pictures inside.

      Damn. So when you see all those snaps of happy smiling kids being entertained by Ronald McDonald at their birthday party, five minutes later, security arrived and escorted them off the premises?

      If that's true, the McDonald's executives should have hot cups of coffee poured all over their genital areas as punishment.

  3. Of course they want Macs. by stevesliva · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is difficult to develop Mac applications without Mac boxes.

    --
    Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
    1. Re:Of course they want Macs. by diersing · · Score: 5, Insightful
      No no no, this crowd does not want to hear that. Are you suggesting while developing the Office line of products for Mac they might actually want to test on a G5? Absurd!!!

      For as valid as your point is, its kinda of unrelated to the topic of a company terminating an employee for iReason. The posting is suggesting that the employee was fired for.... what? Saying Microsoft was buying Macs? I don't think so. I would imagine it had more to do with taking images from the Redmond campus (unapproved images from his digital camera), off campus and making them available online. There are many business campus' that have very specific rules (that you agree to as part of employment) about what can and can't happen on campus. Understanding the images were captured in a loading dock, but they could have been pictures of code (screen captures or documents) or other MS IP. Since the guy was a temp, he prolly wasn't afforded a detailed explanation, just a seizure of non-personal items an personal escort the edge of the property.

    2. Re:Of course they want Macs. by stevesliva · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well sure, if ya'll want me to lay it out. When I interviewed for an internship with MS's Mac Office group in 2001, there were big turquoise G4s sitting right on people's desks and a big lab full of just about every Mac PowerPC model ever released. Shocking! And you know what? The developers were even using a non-MS IDE. Astonishing!

      --
      Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
    3. Re:Of course they want Macs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Considering you didn't RTFA you managed to guess a lot of what he actually wrote. But you got one thing wrong:

      The picture itself might have been permissible, but because I also mentioned that I worked at the MSCopy print shop, and which building it was in, it pushed me over the line.

      But I do agree with you. This guy would have had to sign an NDA (and possibly other security docs) and outlined in it would be any such rules. He clearly leaked information the company considered private, and he should be sacked.

      If a company can't trust an employee, they should not have to keep that employee around. I, too, had to sign an NDA where I work, and I actually read it, so I know what I can and cannot do. The guy said he thought he had taken appropriate precautions based on what others experienced (I'm guessing in different companies), but clearly didn't check to see what was appropriate for MICROSOFT. And that is, after all, what matters when you work for Microsoft.

      In conclusion: If you violate your contract/NDA/whatever other official document you signed, you get canned. It's a simple cause and effect (the very purpose of these documents), hardly newsworthy at all as I'm sure it happens every day. Just because this guy found a new way to violate his contract (and it isn't that new either), doesn't set him apart from the rest.

    4. Re:Of course they want Macs. by golgotha007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They told the guy point-blank 'we don't like what you posted, so you're fired'.

      um, did you RTFA? microsoft said that they didn't like what he posted because it was considered a breach of security.

      taking pictures of the loading dock and then describing where on the campus it was was considered to be too much information given to the public.

      look, i don't support MS in the least (and in some regard, i downright hate them), but this isn't a free speech issue, it's a breach of security issue.

      i am sure that somewhere in his employment contract (either with MS or his temp agency), it mentions that information regarding operating procedures are to be kept confidential.

      he violated that, MS called him on it. it's as simple as that.

      hopefully, he'll be able to find another job soon.

    5. Re:Of course they want Macs. by Total_Wimp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you saying that the NDA you signed:

      Won't let you talk casually about what you do at work ("I develop a word processing application")...

      Won't let you talk casually about what see at work ("My boss got fired")...

      Won't let you talk casually about your working environment ("I use a fast PC with two monitors")...

      ??

      I have to ask, if you work for a private company, why would you let your company control that level of detail? I'm all for not blabbing about all the details of your work, but where do you draw the line? Does it make you untrustworthy to talk about minor things at work (and, yes, getting a truckload of computers at work IS a minor thing)?

      TW

    6. Re:Of course they want Macs. by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2

      Turquoise G4s?

      Those were Yosemite G3s, dammit!

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    7. Re:Of course they want Macs. by fitten · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have to ask, if you work for a private company, why would you let your company control that level of detail?

      Quite simply, you *don't* have to. When you interview for a job, you are typically given a bit of paperwork to sign. In this package, you usually get NDAs and the like that tell you what you can and cannot do with respect to information that you will have and/or be privy to at the job as well as things you can and cannot do with the expected results if you break the agreement. It is YOUR DUTY to READ and UNDERSTAND the documents BEFORE YOU SIGN them. If you find something you do not understand, you should ask them to clarify it and/or consult your own lawyer BEFORE YOU SIGN. If you have specific "what ifs" to test the terms, do this BEFORE YOU SIGN. If you find certain terms are not agreeable, you can then negotiate for more agreeable terms BEFORE YOU SIGN. AFTER YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND what you are AGREEING to IF you sign the document, YOU make the CHOICE of whether to sign the document or not, thereby agreeing to the terms. If you found that you cannot agree to the terms and/or haven't arrived at a reasonable set of terms through negotiation, you have the option of NOT SIGNING and going about your own business elsewhere.

      Otherwise, you file this sort of situation under YO FAULT. He agreed to something then broke his agreement, the penalty for which is termination of employment. Case closed.

    8. Re:Of course they want Macs. by lone_marauder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He clearly leaked information the company considered private, and he should be sacked.

      I call bullshit. The photo was taken outdoors, and I doubt the mere acquisition of G-5s could be considered private information. Unless they are stolen, somebody has to know they were purchased.

      I think it's a case of Microsoft being pissed off because of perceived embarassment. That the firing is more embarassing to them than the photo was is yet another example of how damaging the mass neurosis is that separates them from truly long-term successful organizations.

      --
      who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
    9. Re:Of course they want Macs. by rifter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have access to a Top Secret research lab. Just for fun, I could disclose exactly how many Dell workstations they've purchased in the past two months(98, bringing the total to 214). I really wouldn't expect they'd care.

      I don't think so, either, but they are the judges of that, ultimately. However, you did not disclose the name and location of the building in which these computers were housed, the department that works in that building, and the exact computers, with pictures. That is what this guy did, and why they fired him. All in all, I would say this counts as proprietary information.

  4. Uh Oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I sure hope he's got unmetered bandwidth on that site.
    First he gets fired and now Slashdot posts 3 links to his server? Poor guy!

  5. Offer to take the posting down by Mr+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft fired the blogger, despite an offer to take the posting down

    And if he doesn't want to take it down, damn it we'll take it down FOR him.

  6. port longhorn ot Apple hardware? by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Insightful

    or just do what they always do, have reference machines so they can keep any eye on the competition.

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  7. Paranoia? by BWJones · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, what was the deal? Was Microsoft genuinely spooked at his revealing what building he was in, or were they upset that it was revealed they purchase Macs? They do have a Macintosh business unit, so I would guess the former, but it does appear a little extreme.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Paranoia? by Arcturax · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, I think it was justifiable firing. He likely signed a NDA and here he goes putting up pictures of their computers on the web. Even if nothing critical was revealed, they have to enforce their NDA or people will violate it left and right. This is far more serious than a leak of a Windows beta which is already widely distributed anyway. This is taking photos of systems used for internal company buisiness. If I were his employer, I would have fired him too.

      --

      --Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
    2. Re:Paranoia? by jdvuyk · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It seems a pretty stupic move from Microsoft to NOT have the information removed tho. If they simply requested it to be removed, give him a stern talking too and get on with life, very few people would have been the wiser.

      Now however, half the geek world and anyone else who cares to take a look sometime in the future can look all they like. It has now become wide public knowledge. NDA or not the knowledge (no matter how useless) is now widely public. How NOT to manage the situtation....

      This is all a lesson in working for a large corperation and really has little to do with microsoft or the computer industry. But its should be in Microsofts interest to keep this to a minimum, publicly speaking.

    3. Re:Paranoia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is taking photos of systems used for internal company buisiness.

      This is taking photos of commidity hardware widely used throughout industry. These weren't installed computers and he didn't even known which department they were destined for. These are G5s sitting in boxes. If you're interested in seeing such top secret stuff, head over to your local Apple Store and check out the shelves. It's publically known that Microsoft develops software for the Macintosh platform, logic dictacts that Microsoft sometimes orders Macintoshes to do that development on. The photo revealed zero useful information, it was just an interesting slice of life.

      If I were his employer, I would have fired him too.

      Then you're an asshole whose employees won't respect you. Creating a draconian work environment just pisses off employees. Pissed off employees are more likely to engage in serious violations of the NDA (say, leaving with a copy of your prodcuct's source code). Employees who know that the rules are tempered with reason are more likely to be loyal to the company and do the right thing when it matters.

  8. Non-issue by EABird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure that if I posted confidential information about my company, they would fire me too. All I have to say to this person is, duh.

    1. Re:Non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is what you see in the parking lot or shipping dock confidential information?

    2. Re:Non-issue by timbloid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, but if it brings the company into disripute by me taking photos of it, then that's a different matter...

    3. Re:Non-issue by diersing · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If on THEIR campus.. yes.

      Where is the line drawn? The loading dock? A developes cube?

      From what I understand, the campus is pretty much a gated community. If the pic was taken from a public street, then yeah you have a point. But when on they're property, you gotta play by their rules.

    4. Re:Non-issue by jwjr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm surprised so many people take Microsoft's side on this issue. I run a small business. I've worked for a few small businesses. At each of those places I and the people I've worked for would have had no problem with an employee putting information like this on the web. I hope that if my business ever grew to be huge, managers at the level of the copy shop would have similar perspective: it just doesn't matter. In fact, making this a firing offense probably made thing worse.

      As far as I can tell, the facts disclosed are:

      1. MS copy shop operations are in the same building as shipping and receiving.

      2. There are trees, asphalt, and trucks somewhere on the MS campus. Sometimes there is sunshine.

      3. MS bought a few Apple G5 machines.

      As several people have pointed out, item #3 is no surprise, given that MS develops software for Apple computers.

      What's the big deal?

      Wouldn't a more enlightened company have requested that the employee go ahead with his offer to remove the text, or simply have asked that he note the preceding in a rebuttal? They can't call the information back, and does it really help MS to cultivate so much fear among employees about discussing even such innocuous details? If so, why?

    5. Re:Non-issue by Rary · · Score: 4, Funny

      I hope that if you posted confidential information about your company online, in addition to firing you, your employer would take immediate actions to remove that confidential information, rather than leaving it where it is, declining an offer to remove it, and drawing attention to it so that the entire Slashdot crowd sees it, rather than just the 10 people who regularly visit the site in question.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    6. Re:Non-issue by budgenator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      MS bought a few Apple G5 machines. and the next time MS buys a few Apple G5, three of them are stolen off the loading dock after they've been signed for would it still not be a firing offense? The guy just let the whole world know,
      1. where the loading dock is,
      2. What high value items are recieved on the loading dock.
      3. physical security isn't enough to keep unauthorized photos from being taken.
      4. MS extends the security thru obscurity paradigm to the real world as well as the cyber-world.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  9. Why are they so secretive? by BMonger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The person was fired mainly for taking a photo of the Microsoft Campus and posting it online plus telling people where he worked (short answer anyhow). Why is Microsoft so secretive about what is in the different buildings? I seem to remember a few other stories of people not being able to find anything on their land because nobody would tell them where anything was... it just seems weird. But I'm sure there is some sort of explanation for it. Anybody?

    1. Re:Why are they so secretive? by buddhaunderthetree · · Score: 5, Funny
      Well, you probably won't like the answer but I have it on good authority that in case of emergency, (i.e. the Govt. really enforcing anti-trust laws) the buildings on the MS campus will transform into giant robots, march on Washington D.C. and install Bill Gates as our new overlord.

      --
      "Technology.....the knack of so arranging the world that we don't have to experience it." Max Firsch
    2. Re:Why are they so secretive? by Blob+Pet · · Score: 4, Funny

      Like this?

      --
      "...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
    3. Re:Why are they so secretive? by Illserve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A. He's just a temp

      B. He's demonstrated a propensity to take photos of things "behind the scenes" at Microsoft and publish them on the internet.

      I don't expect they cared too much about this incident, but it identifies him as someone willing to snipe at his own place of employment on the internet. Being a temp, no reason to negotiate, just fire and forget. Why bother getting promises of good behavior from him that he'll likely reneg on next week when you can push the recycle button.

      Seems like a perfectly reasonable decision to me, and this guy had it coming.

    4. Re:Why are they so secretive? by TheFlyingGoat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's pretty simple, actually. If you knew certain people worked in certain buildings, and you knew what those buildings were working on, you could possibly get some idea of what direction they're headed. For example, if they have a building that's dedicated to MSN Search and you find they have an unusual number of people in that building who have are experts in translation software and can speak fluent Chinese, you'd be able to tell they're working on some form of translating Chinese in their search engine. Not that big of a deal? It is if you're investing millions of dollars in new concepts.

      --
      You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
  10. So let me get this straight... by levik · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Miscorosft fired an employee for painting the company in a bad light on a world-accessible medium?

    I don't see an issue. Imagine yourself running a small firm - if one of your employees were to go and make a post that clearly makes fun of your company, how would you feel about it?

    The move may be a bit harsh, but definitely not anything to raise privacy issues - as an employee, you are obligated to look out for the well-being of your company.

    As far as the G5s go, why wouln't MS want them? They have a bunch of products that target Mac OS, I would imagine they want to test them on everything from the G3 iBooks to the G5 desktops.

    --
    Ñ'
    1. Re:So let me get this straight... by Rary · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "...painting the company in a bad light...(a)s far as the G5s go, why wouln't MS want them?"

      Everyone here seems to be commenting about the fact that it's obvious Microsoft would have G5s. They do, after all, develop Mac software. So then, why is it "painting the company in a bad light" to point out the obvious fact that they happen to have some G5s on campus?

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

  11. In case of /.ing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even Microsoft wants G5s

    October 23, 2003 @ 10:34 PM | Macintosh

    It looks like somebody over in Microsoft land is getting some new toys...

    I took this shot on the way into work on the loading dock (MSCopy, the print shop I work in, is in the same building as MS's shipping and receiving). Three palettes of Dual 2.0Ghz G5's on their way in to somewhere deep in the bowels of Redmond. Hopefully they're all in good condition when they arrive -- the boxes are slick enough that a few of them took a bit of a tumble (you can see them back in the truck)!

    October 27, 2003 03:08 PM

    And that simply, as of about 2pm today, I once again joined the ranks of the unemployed. more

    The day started like any other day -- get up, dink around for a bit, bus into work, and start working through the stack of jobs. Just shy of an hour after I got in, my manager came in and asked me to step into his office when I had a chance. Sure, no biggie, and I headed over as soon as I finished the job I was setting up.

    "Okay, here's the first question. Is this page," and here he turned his monitor towards me, letting me see my "Even Microsoft wants G5s" post from last Thursday, "hosted on any Microsoft computer? Or is it on your own?"

    "It's on mine. Well, it's on a hosted site that I pay for, but no, it's not on anything of Microsoft's."

    "Good. That means that as it's your site on your own server, you have the right to say anything you want. Unfortunately, Microsoft has the right to decide that because of what you said, you're no longer welcome on the Microsoft campus."

    And that simply, as of about 2pm today, I once again joined the ranks of the unemployed.

    It seems that my post is seen by Microsoft Security as being a security violation. The picture itself might have been permissible, but because I also mentioned that I worked at the MSCopy print shop, and which building it was in, it pushed me over the line. Merely removing the post was also not an option -- I offered, and my manager said that he had asked the same thing -- but the only option afforded me was to collect any personal belongings I had at my workstation and be escorted out the door. They were at least kind enough to let me be escorted out by one of my co-workers, rather than sending security over to usher me out, but the end result is the same.

    More frustrating for me is that, having read stories here and there on the 'net about people who had for one reason or another lost their jobs due to something on their weblogs, I thought that I had done what I could to avoid that possibility. To my mind, it's an innocuous post. The presence of Macs on the Microsoft campus isn't a secret (for everything from graphic design work to the Mac Business Unit), and when I took the picture, I made sure to stand with my back to the building so that nothing other than the computers and the truck would be shown -- no building features, no security measures, and no Microsoft personnel. However, it obviously wasn't enough.

    So, I'm unemployed. I am somewhat lucky in that I'm not technically unemployed -- I am still on the roster for my temp agency, who has been very good to me so far (and hopefully will continue to be), but as their ability to place me anywhere does depend on the current job market, it's not a foolproof guarantee of employment coming in quickly. I've put a call into them and let them know of the situation and that I'm available and willing for whatever can be found, so with any luck, they'll be able to find a placement for me. However, it appears that it's also time for me to start hitting the streets and shopping my resume around again.

    Wish me luck.

  12. Bad Publicity? by bearclaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please. 99% of the public won't even hear about the story. And of the 1% that does, 99% of them won't give a rat's ass who Microsoft fired.

    --
    -- bearclaw
    1. Re:Bad Publicity? by TWX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More like, 100% of the people who hear about the story are either Slashdotters who already hate Microsoft, or Apple nuts, who already hate Microsoft. Honestly, I don't really see what Microsoft did wrong in this particular instance. If the knowledge of them posessing the Apples is what the company took exception to having had spread, then they are within their rights to terminate someone who doesn't maintain company secrets.

      I don't exactly care for Redmond's largest company myself, but for a change this is a reasonable business practice.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  13. Legality and No sense of humour by E-Tigger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know that there have been other cases of people being `persecuted' = fired from their positions due to things they said on the blogs.

    I have to question the legality of that kind of action as infringing upon the freedom of speech, of punishing someone for their opinions.

    Perhaps it is naive to think that the non-discrimination due to race, creed, etc would also apply to thought.

    Because in essence firing someone for what are their opinions and thoughts is a form of thought police.

    While that doesn't relate in this instance, as this is far more foolish.

    It's a laugh. MS buying Apples. So what? It's funny. I'm sure they have Linus boxes running somewhere also. What of it?

    You'd think a company that wealthy would be able to afford a sense of humour.

    1. Re:Legality and No sense of humour by numark · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll play devil's advocate here for a second. Perhaps it's not that Microsoft was concerned about what the employee was saying. Maybe their concern was, if he's leaking information about their computers today, what's to stop him from leaking information about new software they're developing tomorrow. With as many people who want to work at Microsoft, it's not to their advantage to keep someone around who's a potential liability in the future, based on their actions in the past.

      --
      Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
  14. Coke/Pepsi same problem by Peyna · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I recall reading a story awhile ago about a Coke employee who was fired for drinking Pepsi while working. This is along similar lines for justification of firing someone; however, in this case it is a little more iffy if they could actually fire him for this depending on what sort of contracts he signed when agreeing to employment with Microsoft.

    In the Coke/Pepsi deal the worker had to sign something saying he wouldn't publicly endorse another product (by drinking it) while working. I imagine MS might have a similar deal.

    --
    What?
  15. Bad publicity by Infonaut · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The thing is, the bad publicity will hit the Mac-loving crowd, the anti-Microsoft crowd, and probably nobody else will hear about it or give a damn.

    Most of the mainstream press doesn't even understand why Microsoft is considered distasteful by many people. I doubt that many news outlets will even consider this news.

    The Blog Nation may spread it around for a few nanoseconds, but most of them are already open-minded enough to realize that there are viable alternatives to Microsoft products.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  16. Overreaction? by toupsie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Microsoft does have a Mac Business Unit that produces an excellent version of their Office package. Microsoft has every right to can anyone they (barring contracts) but this seems like an overreaction. A Microsoft stockholder would want to know that Microsoft is testing and developing their Mac Business Unit products on the latest and greatest Macs.

    However, there is probably more to this story than we are reading -- mainly because the site is /.-ed.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
  17. For those who can't get to the article by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For those who can't get to the article, he wasn't fired for posting the pic about mac's at Microsoft. As he pointed out Microsoft is widely known to have used Mac's in different operations (like their Mac software unit) for years. He was fired for a fairly innocous describing of part of the physical layout of their campus. While I'm not exactly fond of beast of Redmond, they do have some pretty valid security concerns. After all, if you made something that routinely pissed off millions of people every year you'd probably be a little paranoid about your security too.

  18. I side with Microsoft on this one. by pecosdave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't like MS. Yeah, some might say I was an OSS zealot. When I gave up MS at home I went as far as to give away my MS Wheel mouse and replaced it with a Logictech.

    Chances are he signed paperwork saying that he couldn't disclose company secrets. He took the pic at work and posted it on the web, there are often policies about this. He let the world know what MS was up to.

    No matter how much I like MS they did exactly what they should have done.

    I know I'm up to my neck in NDAs and ethics processes, something like that would be a direct violation of all of them. I even try not to talk about what I do to my wife. Coporations keep secrets for a reason.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:I side with Microsoft on this one. by zonix · · Score: 2, Funny
      I even try not to talk about what I do to my wife.

      So I guess there's no chance you'll post a picture of her then? ;-)

      z
      --
      What would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
    2. Re:I side with Microsoft on this one. by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Chances are he signed paperwork saying that he couldn't disclose company secrets. He took the pic at work and posted it on the web, there are often policies about this. He let the world know what MS was up to.... No matter how much I like MS they did exactly what they should have done.

      I agree with you completely, on a technical level.

      There's probably no doubt the guy broke 'the rules' as its very, very easy to do. Almost everyone breaks one of the standard workplace 'rules' per day. Same with the law - I am a total criminal, I jaywalk multiple times a day, and I've run red lights before.

      The difference is in the interpretation. Like the law, the spirit is supposed to be observed, not just the letter.

      What I am saying is this: he broke the rules and he shouldn't have been fired. Yes it was a picture of a part of the MS campus, a loading dock. Yes, technically it was a security breach. Yes, it was against the rules. No, he should not have been fired. Why?

      Because anyone can see he has not actually caused any damage to Microsoft. Nothing has happened. No one seriously thinks he has imperiled their development efforts, physical security, or anything else. Every one of these managers knows that the kid just screwed up, but they're going by the book and not with their brains.

      If we don't cut each other some slack, and use some bloody judgment, we may as all submit to the Giant Corporate Shell Script that tells us when to take lunch, when to take a shit, when to make small talk with workers. Rules are there to be interpreted with wisdom and intelligence. That's the way I see it.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  19. The guy needs help with his rent, too by JimRay · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apparently, his financial situation is a tad bit dire, so if you really wanna stick it to the man, you might consider paypaling him a buck. Even better, give the dude a job...

    --
    My other computer is your Windows box
  20. Two Words by LittleGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "For Cause".

    Unless you have enough money not to care, or are in a union powerful enough to stick by/up for you, that is the terms of employment in 21st Century America.

    Welcome to your well-regulated life. The schools cover it with "Code of Conduct", and businesses continue it with "Policies and Procedures for Employees".

    When you retire, you'll probably be covered under "Retirement Home Procedures for Residents".

    --
    Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
  21. Re:Oh really? by Chewie · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's right. Depending on what you do to me, I can have you prosecuted for any criminal acts (kidnapping, etc.) you commit, or I can bring a civil case against you (emotional pain, etc.). It's *NOT* a First Amendment issue.

    --
    49 20 68 61 76 65 20 74 6F 6F 20 6D 75 63 68 20 66 72 65 65 20 74 69 6D 65 2E
  22. Microsoft and the "community" by pubjames · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think Microsoft realised a couple of years ago that the really powerful thing about OSS was actually the community. And they want to try to make such a community themselves. That's one of the reasons I think there seem to be so many MS staff who have blogs - they want to be seen encoraging an MS community. And why they have taken to "accidentally" releasing alpha/beta stuff into the wild recently.

    Some of their efforts have been laughable in the way that they have tried to make corporate efforts look as if they are really community based. I've tried to find evidence of a genuine MS community but there isn't much about. The only equivalent to Slashdot for MS lovers in ActiveWin, which has about a dozen people that post to it, mainly when a story about Linux or critical of MS comes up.

    There is a lot of activity on GotDotNet, but mostly it is technical queries.

    Are there other, genuine examples of MS community sites? Or alternatively, attempts that are obviously MS driven? I'm just interested to compare the strength of the OSS community with the MS community (yes I know they are not logically exclusive, but in reality it seems to be pretty much the case).

    1. Re:Microsoft and the "community" by mcrbids · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are there other, genuine examples of MS community sites?

      Well.... there's this one called slashdot! I mean, everytime a Microsoft employee belches, it makes front page there!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    2. Re:Microsoft and the "community" by Jetifi · · Score: 2

      I'm not saying that there isn't astroturf, of course there is. What I am trying to put across is that I don't think Scoble/C4L etc. are astroturfing, they're MS employees who blog. And if they like what they do, there's no big deal with them blogging about it - as long as they don't get themselves fired :-)

    3. Re:Microsoft and the "community" by aridhol · · Score: 2, Funny
      Wrong! It uses you!
      Only in Soviet Russia.
      --
      I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
  23. What really worries me... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and what should worry you too is his job description, full-time temp employee. Sounds like Microsoft was getting all the benefits of a full-time employee without having to worry about any of the associated costs. And if companies like Microsoft, with its $60 billion cash reserve can pull this kind of crap, what does that say about today's job market, labour laws and how skewed they are in favour of big business?

    Heck, being a "temp" probably made firing him that much easier.

    Should he have been fired for breaking confidentiality? I don't know, because I can't even see his side of the story (as his site is /.ed). But should he have been a "full-time temp employee"? No fucking way.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:What really worries me... by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nothing worrisome about it. He works full time at Microsoft, but he's paid through a contract agency. And yes, it does make firing him that much easier. That's one reason why they do it, but usually where it comes into play is if a project gets cut back they can let contingent staff go without having to worry about severance pay and the like. Another is that it costs Microsoft less to pay for him and let the contract agency worry about benefits, payroll taxes, etc.

      Like I said, nothing worrisome, companies do this all the time. It's purely a financial move. In fact some companies these days are made up almost entirely of contractors, hired for a particular project, paid and sent on to get another job.

      The main thing contractors at Microsoft have to suffer through is a 100-day "break in service" every 365 days, precisely because there's already been a lawsuit over the practice. Google for "Microsoft" and "Vizcaino", or go here for the Vizcaino lawyers' side of the story.

      --
      Someone you trust is one of us.
  24. Re:This seems unreasonable, but ... by AnswerIs42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    General Motors is a lot worse in that reguard.. you bring any kind of camera into a GM workplace, you are fired on the spot.

    Makes it hard when I went to upgrade my cell phone.. had to find one without a camera feature.

  25. The G5s are for Virtual PC. by kescom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But not for emulating the G5 on x86 with Virtual PC.

    Virtual PC for Mac doesn't run on the G5s right now because it takes advantage of an endian-switch mode that only exists on Motorola's G4s. Microsoft needs some G5s to test against, plain and simple.

  26. not unusual by avandesande · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Many corporate companies I have worked for explicitly forbid bring a camera of any sort onto the campus. If a person is unhappy with such a restriction they should work somewhere else.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  27. Image Mirror by jwilhelm · · Score: 2, Informative
  28. I dunno about this by jeffkjo1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm going to get modded down for advocating the MS position, but, despite reading the blog entry where he says he was fired for revealing MS's deep dark secret, I tend to believe there is something else going on here.

    After all, MS develops office for Macs, amoung other software packages they port for Apple computers. This would infer that they at least test these ports once or twice, and they would obviously need macs for this.
    The idea that he blew the whistle on something is bogus, at least IMHO.

  29. Google cache by Ivanova · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The site's hammered. Cache of the first entry. This is the really interesting one, though.

    --
    Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly.
  30. why did they do that? by beattie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    By firing this guy, they brought more attention to his blog and therefore the pictures and comments that are still there either way. Seems kind of dumb of them to fire him.

  31. Security violation? by phillymjs · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft Security doesn't want anyone to know that somewhere on their sprawling campus, they have a loading dock for the purposes of shipping and receiving goods from the outside world?

    Yes, I can see how the disclosure of this confidential information will cause the destruction of the company. As we speak, hordes of Linux-loving commandos are probably filing into semi trailers purporting to be carrying cases of Jolt Cola or some such, in a classic "trojan horse" maneuver.

    ~Philly

  32. Should've put a password on his blog.. by Faeton · · Score: 5, Informative
    I almost had the same experience, only that I was fortunately not fired (Unions ARE sometimes useful). I work at a nuclear power plant, and I posted some things in my blog that I thought was benign, as I self-censor myself when I write. Too bad the company didn't think it was that benign, even though what I posted is publically available info. PR, security, upper management all nit-picked my blog. After a "chat" with my boss's boss, I took down my site (but still confused about the fuss). Trust me, during that few days I was really combing through my blog making sure I didn't let something REALLY important slip through!

    It didn't take me long to realize that the company (or a contractor) had some spiders out there looking for websites with key words (company name, nuclear, etc) and probably found my blog. So, the easiest way to defeat them and still have my blog was to put up a simple login/password to my site. Only my friends/family view it anyways, and I just create one login account for everybody.

    Since then, I've had 2 other friends (A teacher and a programmer) go through almost the same thing, and they've all put passwords on their sites. I would recommend ALL bloggers to do that if they decide to post anything about work, co-workers, etc if they value their jobs. If this guy did that, I bet he would still have his job.

    1. Re:Should've put a password on his blog.. by rlowe69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since then, I've had 2 other friends (A teacher and a programmer) go through almost the same thing, and they've all put passwords on their sites. I would recommend ALL bloggers to do that if they decide to post anything about work, co-workers, etc if they value their jobs.

      Here's a brainstorm: How about you just don't say anything about work in your blog?

      --
      ----- rL
  33. It's not about free speech, but corporate security by thepacketmaster · · Score: 2, Insightful
    An employee takes a photo on company property and then, without consent, posts it on his personal web page? He's lucky if losing his job is all that happens to him.

    It isn't that I don't feel sorry for the guy, but being a student of best security practices, I know that you don't go posting pictures without permission. The most basic reason is if there were something in that picture that could help out a thief, it would be a breach of physical security.

    In this case, I think the breach regards corporate strategy. Obviously, the Mac's are a superior system in many ways. (The fact they don't crash every 24 hours is a good start). So I'm sure Microsoft wants to examine them thoroughly. But to advertise this fact to the world is a breach of corporate security. Microsoft could easily slap this guy with a corporate espionage charge, and based on the number of lawyers they have, I'm sure they would win.

    There is a difference between freedom of speech and the duty of every employee to protect company workings.

    --

    --

    Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.

  34. Security? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The original link is 404, and their search isn't working, so:
    U.S. intelligence officials said Islamic terrorists have picked
    economic-warfare targets inside the United States. This includes
    intelligence that al Qaeda terrorists plan to attack Microsoft's
    headquarters in Redmond, Wash.

    The data were among information found during military operations
    inside Afghanistan.

    Microsoft's sprawling "campus" is located west of Seattle and includes
    47 buildings with a combined 5.3 million square feet of office space.
    The company's revenue last year was $25.3 billion.

    "This would clearly be economic warfare" by al Qaeda terrorists, said
    one official familiar with reports of the threats.

    Microsoft spokesman Michael Yaeger had no immediate comment on the
    threat.

    Other targets in the Seattle area include facilities of the defense
    contractor Boeing Co., the Navy's Bangor submarine base and the Space
    Needle

    I tried posting it:
    2002-03-16 21:43:39 Al Qa'eda Targets Microsoft (articles,microsoft) (rejected)
    but it was before I kept a copy of submissions in my journal, so I don't have the content anymore.
    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  35. Not same problem by Rui+del-Negro · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think it was a Pepsi employee drinking Coke, actually.

    Anyway, this is not the same problem. First because he wasn't using a Mac, or endorsing Macs. Second because Microsoft does not manufacture computers (and, even if they did, it would make perfect sense for them to test the competition's systems). In fact, Microsoft makes software for Mac OS, so they need Macs to develop and test it (and you don't need a picture to know they have them, you just need common sense).

    What this guy did was post a picture taken without permission in a private property, quite possibly in an area where it was expressly prohibited to take pictures (and where he may not even have been authorised to be).

  36. Doesn't anyone want to know... by Zakabog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Doesn't anyone want to know how Microsoft discovered the picture and the story? Do they routinely check up on any website's from their employee's to make sure that no information has been leaked? I would guess they do (don't want that windows source code to be released) but I think that'd probably bother me if I were an employee. What if I wanted to post how much I hated my boss? Or how I'd like to bang that hot new girl in marketing? Those are things you might want to share with the internet that you don't want your co-workers finding out.

  37. The Real reason he was fired... by Cybertect · · Score: 2, Funny

    Someone read his review of Kill Bill and got the wrong idea :)

  38. MSFT does Mac software, so DUH? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful



    MSFT does Mac software, so DUH?

    1. Re:MSFT does Mac software, so DUH? by websaber · · Score: 3, Funny
      from the blog

      "It seems that my post is seen by Microsoft Security as being a security violation"

      LOL

      This is a microsoft's version of a security flaw but leaving ports open isn't (and all of the other long list of items)? Go figure.

      --
      "A good friend will bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, 'damn....that was fun!'"
  39. Ten Microsoft Developer Community Sites by Carnage4Life · · Score: 2, Informative
    I am a Microsoft employee so I might be biased but there are a number of developer communities around Microsoft technologies including
    1. Code Project
    2. SQL Server Central
    3. .NET Weblogs, SQL Junkies
    4. ASP.NET forums
    5. 4 Guys from Rolla
    6. ASP Alliance mailing lists
    7. CodeGuru discussion forums
    8. TopXML discussion forums - this is mostly about Microsoft XML technologies
    9. .NET Junkies
    10. SQL Team .
  40. Shocker! Breaking an NDA will get you fired! by momus_radar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The act of purchasing several pallets of G5's may not be a trade secret for MS but I'm sure their NDA covers many facets of their business information including purchasing and shipping & receiving. Fool breaks agreement, fool gets fired.

  41. What if something like this happend at Apple. by steevo.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What if a temp employeee took a snapshot of a bunch of Dell computers being unloaded at the loading dock? Would he be fired?

    Yes.

    I am not a big fan of Microsoft, but they acted in their best interest. I have worked inside of several of the largest computer / technology companies, and there has never been a question about the no-camera policy. Every NDA I signed has specified that I can't bring a camera on campus without permission. (This has caused some problems for the folks with cameras imbedded in their mobile phones.)

  42. It was a security breach...Microsoft was RIGHT... by voss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    to fire this guy. If Im a company that is doing
    research into my comptitors products and some jackass contractor takes photos of my research and puts it on the web without permission of course Im going to fire his ass. If this were any other company this would not be news. This is not a free speech issue, this is not ominous for the future, its a dumbass breaching his confidentiality agreement...oh well.

  43. Free Speech and the private sector by dltallan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not at this point going to go into why Microsoft is buying Macs or whether or not the guy was right to post what he did. In other words, I'm not going to go into the specifics of the article.

    I do, however, want to address something in the framing text that christor wrote: "Note that this is not a free speech issue, even though the blog was hosted on a non-company server, because Microsoft is not, yet, the government."

    While I acknowledge that (in the USA) First Amendment rights are limited to government action, I don't agree that non-governmental organizations cannot repress free speech and their actions cannot raise free speech issues.

    It is pretty clear that private sector organizations can provide negative repercussions that will discourage individuals from saying or writing things that will provoke them. This can range from dismissal to lawsuits to, in some cases, industry-wide blacklisting that may prevent someone from continuing to work in his or her chosen profession.

    If we as a society consider that "free speech" (the ability of an individual to express ideas, no matter how controversial, unpopular or challenging) is a value worth preserving, then we should take seriously threats to that ability, no matter where they originate.

    If I want to say something but don't, because of the chilling effect of foreseen consequences, then my "free speech" has been compromised, whether or not those consequences come from the state or private individuals/corporations.

    We may find that other values that we hold come into conflict with the "free speech" value. The value that an individual should be able to control his or her own property may come into conflict (leading to the expression that "Freedom of the Press belongs to them as owns a press" which I remember from my days of active involvement in Usenet, where it was often quoted by sysadmins). Conflict with other values lets us put other restrictions and negative repercussions on those who freely express whatever they want to (slander and libel laws from the state; the ability to shun someone who says unpopular things at the individual level).

    We may decide that these other values/ considerations outweigh the value of free speech in a particular case and allow the government or private individual/corporation to act to restrict the person's ability to speak freely. But if we don't allow the issue to be raised at all as a free speech issue, then we've lost already.

    --
    Respectfully, David Tallan
  44. NDAs and what REALLY constitutes proprietary info. by Svartalf · · Score: 2, Informative

    NDA's cover PROPRIETARY, as in only known to the company and it's partners that have entered into an NDA, info.

    Microsoft buying G5's isn't proprietary and the reseller could legitimately disclose this info- they can expect MS to NOT continue doing business with them if MS didn't want that info disclosed, but it's not something that could be considered proprietary all the same.

    The fact that this individual worked at a specific location on the MS campus isn't proprietary info either. Otherwise you'd have people violating the NDAs all the time.

    The two tidbits combined isn't proprietary info either.

    If it's not proprietary info, it's not coverable by an NDA.

    He wasn't ejected from the MS campus over a breach of an NDA (By the way, do you have any idea how silly you look making it sound like this is a worse thing that a leakage of IP to the world?)- it was someone at MS taking Umbrage at the blog entry and using "security" reasons as an excuse to get him booted from the campus.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  45. No Sympathy by EmagGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This guy got what he properly deserved. I have worked for employers that have authority to SHOOT DEAD ON SIGHT anybody carrying a camera around.


    The rationale is, if he takes a picture of the loading dock and puts it on the web without permission, What else has he taken pictures of and posted on the web?!?


    This guy presented a dire security risk. If it were me, I would not even have let him collect his personal belongings, nor taken his camera with him (if he had it on him). He would have immediately been either arrested or at the very least escorted by security to the property line.


    I think employers can bar you from retrieving personal belongings until a later time after legal agreements are in place regarding your visit... not sure about it thought - ALCTC?

  46. Nope, they don't confiscate stuff at the airport by arete · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nope, they don't confiscate stuff at the airport (generally)

    The power to confiscate your stuff is much harder to establish than the power to deny you access. At airport security, you have the option of keeping your nailclippers and leaving the TSA line. Usually you'll "voluntarily surrender" your nailclippers instead of missing your flight.

    Just after 9/11, a friend of mine left the line and convinced his airline ticket counter to hold onto his knife until he returned home a week later. But he had enough time to do this and go back through the security line.

    They could confiscate things that are illegal to posess, like drugs explosives or concealed firearms. They can confiscate stuff, I think, AFTER you pass through security, if they determined you were trying to get it past.

    Since this is /., I'll bother to point out that someone here definitely got stuff confiscate at the airport by a guard who didn't understand this or, at least, didn't bother to illuminate your options. But that doesn't mean you couldn't have legally refused. I'm also not claiming that having a camera in a defense establishment wouldn't get confiscated.

    --
    Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
  47. You're right AND wrong...discipline was justified by WebCowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're right--the blogger wasn't fired because of security reasons--the picture didn't reveal any secrets in their strategy. Hell, it's fairly common knowledge that BillG carted in Lisa's and Mac's from the start. MS makes a mac version of office among other products--how the hell are they supposed to do that without having access to Apple hardware?

    You're DEAD WRONG on another front--you infer that the blogger was wrongfully terminated because of "Microsoft bullshit". I'm a Linux evangelist myself, but in this case I think Microsoft did the typical and understandable thing in dismissing him. After all, do you think Red Hat would be happy if an employee released a picture of himself or a co-worker happily clicking around Windows XP at work, wrote an article entitled "We like BillG's stuff" and posted it on the internet? Doesn't matter WHO the employer is, I think he would've at LEAST had some interesting words with his boss.

    This guy was quite likely breaching conflict of interest policies by embarassing his employer. He posted a picture of a load of Macs coming off a truck in a loading dock and identified it as being on the Microsoft campus. Not a violation in and of itself. Then he proceeded to identify himself as an EMPLOYEE of Microsoft and the author of the picture! I'd say if he wrote a blog entry flattering to Microsoft (along the lines of "look--MS wants to be multi-platform and play nice with others"), maybe he would've kept his job.

    No..he was foolish enough to write a blog entry RIDICULING HIS EMPLOYER. ANY compnay would do the same thing if ridiculed by an employee in a very public forum.

    Coca-Cola would (and has) fired employees for releasing pictures of pallets of Pepsi sitting in a warehouse surrounded by Coke and making the suggestion that "Coke was trying to learn a thing or two from Pepsi" (Both Coke and Pepsi bottlers have policies regarding how competitors products are to be handled on their premesis--you could be fired for drinking a Coke product in a Pepsi lunch room, particularly if you are caught with it by media representatives or a plant tour group).

    GM would not tolerate the publication of a person identified as a GM employee enjoying a cruise in his Ford Mustang--if that employee was a willing participant in the activity.

    Even a local mom-and-pop pizza joint would take issue with an employee eating Domino's in view of customers-or even just talking about how he or other employees prefer the competiton.

    Was termination justified? I'm not quite sure. Some form of discipline, however, is completely understandable.

  48. Oh no, Macs! by Snowmit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You know, last time I checked, Microsoft developed a lot of software for Macs. In fact I'm prety sure I read an interview a few years ago with the President of Microsoft Canadam where he saidthat, on average, Microsoft makes more money per Mac sold than per PC sold. This is because of all of the extra competitors in the PC Office etc. market. Plus there's that whole Microsoft owning a big share of Apple thing.

    --
    I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
  49. Re:Nope, they don't confiscate stuff at the airpor by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2, Informative

    They could confiscate things that are illegal to posess, like drugs explosives or concealed firearms.

    Yep, as long as those things are illegal. Back in the day, the legal right for a civilian to carry a concealed weapon in Texas was limited to "travelers." There wasn't a good, legal definition of traveler but there were a few court cases on point. In general, it was considered foolhardy to rely on your travel status to justify carrying. But there are the exceptions. For years, whenever anyone was caught with a concealed weapon at Intercontinental Airport in Houston, the person would be denied access to the gate area but the local prosecutor would decline to prosecute. Obviously, if you were about to get on a plane you were a traveler and, thus, your concealed carry was legal under state law. And since the screeners caught you before you got into the secured area of the airport, you hadn't run afoul of any federal law. The only real consequence was that getting all this sorted out was guaranteed to make you miss your flight.

  50. hahaha by holmengraa · · Score: 3, Funny

    lmao @ american worker rights

  51. earlier in his journal..... by nuintari · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its funny, read back in his journal a few days before the photo and the results thereafter, he mentions the dangers of blogging, and what your boss might not like.

    Take your own advice chief, sorry.

    --

    --Nuintari

    slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.

  52. Yes it is a free speech issue by serutan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think it matters that an employer isn't the government. If people can be materially punished by employers for expressing personal views in public, or in this case, making a trivial statement of fact, then people don't have the freedom to speak their minds.

    There are many other cases where editing or suppressing employee speech is perfectly acceptable. For example, newspapers aren't obligated to print whatever their reporters feel like writing. But employers shouldn't be able to take punitive action against people for making non-libelous statements on personal websites.

    Here's a great idea for a startup: create software that mines postings in online forums like Slashdot, associating online personas with actual people and looking for evidence of insubordination or unacceptable opinions. No subpoenas necessary, no court orders, just screen scrapers, AI and a database. If you worked for a large company that could afford such a service would you feel free to speak your mind online?

  53. Corporate Drone Mentality by Aron+S-T · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What bothers me most about this story is some of the reactions here, which reflect the worst sort of corporate thinking: "Someone makes a mistake - can him." Even if one concedes that Microsoft is within its legal rights, it was a senseless act on their part to fire him. Being right is no excuse for being stupid.

    If the concern was really about looking bad for using Macs, they would have insisted he remove the post. I take it at face value that they saw this as a security breach. However, their approach to solving the problem shows how inflexible and rigid they have become, a bad sign for an organization competing in a highly dynamic industry.

    On the self-interest level, they just generated for themselves more bad publicity, something Microsoft can ill afford. Microsoft management should be trained to take public opinion into consideration in every act they do, and to think carefully about the PR implications of their public actions.

    On a more fundamental level, a corporation has no real existence. It is a group of people working towards some goal. Proper motivation of employees is a key to success.

    If fear is the greatest motivating tool that corporate management chooses to make use of, that corporation is doomed to oblivion. Firing someone should be a last resort action taken only after other options have been exhausted. If management is seen as cruel and capricious, then the best employees who have a choice of where to work, will go find a more congenial working environment.

    The proper way to have handled this was to ask the employee to immediately remove the offending post from his blog, and point out to him the corporate policies he violated and let him go with a warning. That way they would have avoided bad PR, limited the security breach and would have been viewed as an understanding employer. Microsoft lost on every level by taking this foolish action, whatever the initial motivation might have been.

  54. u sure? by MoFoQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it sure smells like free speech and since there weren't any technical specs nor anything revealing except the fact that there's a bunch of g5's, it's difficult for me to say that it's a security violation. More like retaliation for spilling the beans on m$'s stragedy (which everyone in the world already knows).

  55. Security?... My Ass! by UtSupra · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lots of people are justifying the sacking of this poor guy, as if it made sense to think of a picture as a security threat. If you are threaten by pictures, How are you going to stop the small phones with cameras on them? Your enemies can take as many pictures as they want! (unless you are a military base).