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On Game Consoles As Multimedia Devices
Thanks to GamesAreFun for their editorial discussing whether the next generation of consoles should have multimedia capabilities, such as DVD playing and TiVo-like functionality, or whether the manufacturers should stick with "a console that just plays games." The author argues that these extra features "...add to the overall cost in the end [through licensing and production costs], to both the manufacturers and to consumers (especially at the launch of the consoles)", suggests that there's "more to worry about insofar as breaking down of moving parts", and concludes, definitively: "Personally, all I want is a dedicated gaming machine."
They should use a Banscata system, sharing development costs and benefits... well I'm stretching the metaphor a bit probably, but I think it's an interesting idea.
Sounds like this man could use a GameCube.
it seems the corporations want to all make one product that does everything. PDA/Phone, game console/DVR/DVD and now that phone/GB. I have a Clie and a Phone. I would never want to hold my clie up to my ear. Why can't these big wigs in marketing just realize people want individual products that do their job well.
The only exception I make to this is when products have to interact. Things like the DirecTivo for example. In that case, it makes life easier as you don't have to interface two components.
Nintendo tried this, and it really hurt their sales at the beginning, when DVD players were expensive.
I know a number of people who helped justify the cost of their playstation 2 in part because it had a DVD player.
Now, in reality I think that this theory is correct. If you want a gaming machine get one. If you want a DVD player get one. Dunno.
Of course Nintendo's the only one making any money on hardware sales, so go figure.
I bought my PS2, over the competition, because it doubled as a DVD player out of the box.
If I was on the fence of buying a console would having a DVD player built in push me over? Maybe if I didn't have one. If I didn't really want an X-Box and didn't have a DVD player, would having it be able to play DVDs make me more interested in buying it? No, I don't think so.
So basically, I think it's good to have the DVD paying aspect, but it doesn't effect my purchasing (other than owning a PS2 has stopped me from buying a "real" DVD player becasue I don't need one). I like the way the PS2 did it better than the X-Box. With the PS2 it was free, no $30 extra (I later bought the PS2 remote when it was onsale for $10 just for convience sake).
As for the extra costs, what extra costs? Both the PS2 and X-Box have built in hardware MPEG2 decoders that games can use, and store data on DVDs so they both have DVD drives. All they had to do was add a little piece of software and get it licensed. I personally doubt that the licensing fee added anything significant to the cost of my PS2 or X-Box, maybe $1 at most.
Now as for TiVo functionality, that would be interesting too, but I don't think it would push me over the fence. Neither would playing MP3s (although that would be very nice) or anything else. Before I bought a TiVo, I might have used the feature (like I used to use my VCR to record programs that I couldn't watch) but it wouldn't make a big difference (I had that VCR after all). Now that I HAVE a TiVo it means even less to me.
I guess, in summary, these "extra" features won't get me to buy the device, but it might make me like it more or use it more (I'm very fond of my PS2, because I use it so often for DVDs).
And while this all may seem new, is it? We've seen the various CD consoles (Saturn, SegaCD, PS, etc) play audio CDs, and some (like the white Asian PS) could play VCDs too. There are examples of previous consoles that have added things in, and I doubt it makes any difference in sales.
To prove my point: How many of you who didn't own a Dreamcast bought ne to use as a web-browser and game machine? No one? That's what I thought. You bought your DC for the games (or, as /.ers, to run Linux/BSD :)
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I'm glad it was included, but then again, I don't expect to rely on built in DVD players either. I once rented a HK bootleg of Azumanga Daioh and it wouldn't play in my Xbox DVD player (Probably because it lacked a DVD menu, which says something about the quality of the DVD itself, but whatever...). I've also had trouble playing other movies in my PS2 DVD player.
And it might be a matter of personal preference, but I happen to like the interface and remote for my Xbox's DVD player in lieu of other DVD players, especially the PS2's DVD player. Just seems to cut 99$ of the bullshit, the remote isn't cluttered, and it sticks a lot of the angle and subtitle functions in its own little menu instead of yet another button on the rmote.
I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
It's getting to the point where you need to go out and buy a PC if you just want to play games!
OH WAIT...
I dont' really see them REMOVING functionality on the next generation of gaming consoles. One of the selling points is all of the NEW things it can do, so to take away an existing feature doesn't seem likely.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Is there any reason for the next generation of game consoles to also be DVD movie players? If you bought a PS2 or Xbox, you have a DVD player. DVD players can be purchased for very little nowadays. Most everyone who wants one, has one.
When this generation of hardware was released, a built in DVD movie player was a big advantage for a console...when nobody had a DVD player. I envision TiVo-like functionality to be the next "It also plays DVDs!", but would Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft build this type of functionality into a game system? And would such a system stay around the $300 price point that seems to be the new standard?
What does everybody else think?
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
As far as complaining about potential cost increases due to multiple functions, why don't we burn that bridge when we get to it? In this most recent generation, it's unreasonable to blame DVD playback for more than $20-30 (licensing and software development) of the cost for PS2s, and the Xbox shifted that cost over to an optional add-on. There's no indication yet that the next consoles will cost any more than they did in this past generation and we all know that people will be less likely to buy the consoles if they cost more, so they'll probably debut again at $300. If I end up getting some extra potential functionality for that money, what is there to complain about? If the argument is against the inclusion of hard drives in consoles because of increased failure rates, well, I'm not buying that either. I've had the same 20-GB hard drive in my Panasonic Showstopper (ReplayTV) since purchase (at its debut several years ago), running for several hours per day, and I don't have problems outside of wanting more space and being too cheap/lazy to replace it with something bigger.
I read nothing in that editorial that makes me think that adding functions to consoles is a bad idea on its face. It only made me think that the writer, like so many people on the Internet, is a curmudgeon who enjoys hunting down things about which to complain.
The day Sony used the PS2 ability to also play DVD movies is the day they stopped making "video game consoles." That was the day they became "entertainment systems" which by defination is true. However, I think most people would agree with me when I say that, the image of a PS3 or Xbox 2 being sold next to home surround sound system setups in the future is something reserved for neverever land.
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For example, your cellphone probably has a calculator function, right? Is it as good as a proper scientific calculator? No. But it wasn't hard for the cellphone OS manufacturers to add one in, and it is useful. If you need a real calculator, you'll go buy one.
The same is true of game consoles. These are computers that were designed to play games, but it's not too hard for the manufacturer to add features that only require software (like CD/DVD playback, or net access). It doesn't matter that playback is as good as a Denon, or net access isn't as good as on a PC. But it does increase the value of the machine to some people, so it's worth putting in.
Um, except for the fact that the NGage is a REALLY good cell phone (even if it does look a little odd while using).
Unfortunately, as I keep saying, NGage's mistake is treating it's primaty function as a gaming machine instead of a cell phone. It's a cell phone which plays games, not the other way around.
Perhaps the NGage's failure will force Nokia to realize this...
With the large number of PS/PS2's that blowout, do you really think they are spending much on components? Also, consider for a moment that Sony MAKES the cd/dvd drive components. The only thing they go outside for is the graphics chip.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
"I like the way the PS2 did it better than the X-Box. With the PS2 it was free, no $30 extra (I later bought the PS2 remote when it was onsale for $10 just for convience sake)."
You paid for that feature. It's just that you paid by not having an 8gb HD in your system. The dongle that plugs into the Xbox is not just an IR sensor, it's the complete DVD playback program. The features in it are more complete than the "console only" features in a PS2. The PS2 requires you spend that same US$ 30 on a memory card that's 8megabytes in size, rather than a nice 8gigabyte HD. Failing to acknowledge this is just deluding yourself.
"I personally doubt that the licensing fee added anything significant to the cost of my PS2 or X-Box, maybe $1 at most."
On the Xbox, maybe, but on the PS2, wrong. The DVD CCA licence is more than US$ 1 -- you're deluding yourself.
There are plenty of people who won't acknowledge that the GameCube is a viable console choice because it won't play DVDs. Even though it's 110$ cheaper than PS2 or Xbox, and you can buy for 60$ a superior DVD player that also does video CDs (which no current consoles do), MP3 cds (ditto), and Kodak picture CDs (ditto), among other things.
The DVD player feature was fine when decent DVD players cost a fair chunk of change. Since they now cost the same as a new release video game, it's not a big deal. Only people who don't know anything about DVD players will convince themselves it's worth the extra expense.
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When the PS2 was released, DVD players had no where near the market penetration that they have now. IIRC most dvd players were running about $150-$200 when the PS2 came out. At that price, people who specifically wanted them would have had them, but most people I know at the time were still waiting for them to come down in price. I know several people who purchaced a PS2 just as a DVD player, and the fact that it could play games was a bonus. The thing is, the PS2 was out to market so long before the game cube or XBox that it's hard to tell how thier respective approaches to DVD playback (supported with added periphrial or not supported at all) would have effected the sales had they been released at the same time.
Just speculating, but I think we would have seen a lot of people buying the PS2 as a dvd players because it cost about the same as one, and it could play all the nifty games. Aside from those people though, I think the market would have gone about like it has now (ok, probably not because the PS2 wouldn't have such a major time advantage and the GC wouldn't have such a major time disadvantage, but that point aside).
The point is, most people buy one next gen console at launch, then wait for the others to come down in price. Most of these people choose one console over another for the games. I don't know anyone who wanted a GC for Zelda or Mario for example, but went with a PS2 because it could play DVDs.
The question then is, are there more people who purchaced a PS2 because it was a dvd player, at regular price, and for the extra $50 they could get a next gen console, or were there more people who purchaced a console because of the games, and dvd playback was a "nice extra"
When the next generation of consoles comes out, I think we will have the same level of market penetration with PVRs et al. as we had with DVD players when the current generation of consoles were released.
I've been kind of ranting here, but what I think i'm trying to get at is, all of factors aside, if one console supports all these nifty features "out of the box" and the others don't, it will have more market share because not only will it have buyers wanting it for the games, but also people just wanting those nifty extras at a reasonable price, and the fact that said system can play games makes it more appetizing than a dedicated player. If all systems support said functionality, then I think the majority of these types of buyers will pounce on either the first to market or the cheapest to market. After considering those people (no idea how big of a difference it will make, because I don't know how big that market is), these extras should have little effect on the console wars.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
needed by most of this functionality is nearingly nil.
and i for one don't like buying hardware(or software) that has been intentionally cripled.
if the console has some way to read the data containing the multimedia content, and a way to load up a program, it should be able to show the stuff.
it's not like you're adding a vcr to a nes anymore. it's more like adding mp3 playback from cdrw to a dvd player(which doesn't cost anything anymore and so is added)...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
With the computer, the TV, the printer, the scanner, etc, the living room is kinda crowded.
I like having my PS2 for games AND dvd, takes up less space (especially with that whole vertical thing they have goin on, I have it up next to the couch).
BTW, I have a cyber tool swiss army knife, I like stuff that do more than one thing, and I don't mind paying a bit more for it. I would pay twice if I bought 2 devices (or n times for n devices), paying taxes each time. With a multifunction device I at least escape the government's greedy clutches : )
You can't take the sky from me...
An ATSC HDTV signal is about 19 Mbps, or about 8.5 GB/hour, assuming that the video is actually using all of the available bandwidth. A digital standard definition (480i) signal would probably be about a quarter of that. That seems well within the range of today's commodity hardware. The trick is to get the digital video out of the ATSC receiver without Disney, CBS and the MPAA going nuts about piracy.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
But why hasn't MS published a web browser disc for the X-box yet? Once they setup XBox live it'd be a simple matter to add MSN to the mix. 90% of my surfing could be easily done on an XBox...and they support USB keyboards now anyway don't they? You'd even be able to use PC browser plug-ins. But the OS itself is pretty different...without all the third-party Features--holes [that whole locked down proprietary thing]
...and someone else wants to stream mp3s to a different computer or stereo?
/. wise guys) while d) playing MP3s in another room. Not inconceivable in many households.
;-) ): alNOlenmSPAM@usa.net Remove the NO and the SPAM to get the address...
The real problem is the lack of multitasking that a 'console' or 'multi-purpose' device can perform.
It would be great to buy one Home Entertainment center and have it 1) act as a Tivo-like PVR, 2) be my game console, 3) act as my internet router/firewall for my Internet connection, 4) be my storage device for documents, mp3s, recorded TV, etc, 5) provide all the processing for my smart displays all over the house, 6) stream content to any display, connected stereo, or TV in the house - all at the same time!!!
The fact is, it is cheaper to buy multiple dedicated devices and connect them than it is to create the uber console of the future. Just think about what it would take for the console to perform some 'basic' tasks like, a) recording my favorite TV show while b) Playing a graphic accelerated game and c) watching a DVD in another room (more than one person
It will take the evolution of several technologies to even support multi-simultaneous use consoles - smarter filesystems, QoS on the network for streaming coupled with smart caching by the display/playback units, and CPU on demand for those important realtime applications (games).
Even then, CPU and storage need to be added by people as technical as my mother who gets scared whenever I open her computer case. TRUE plug-and-play: something like a PCCard slot for CPUs, and an even simpler drive cage. The system will need to dynamically recognize and use the new capacity WITHOUT A REBOOT and SELF-OPTIMIZE.
I have designs, if someone wants to hire me for big bucks to be a program manager for such a project (likelihood: slim to non-existent
Really, how should I be expected to play games without getting popcorn out of the same machine as the game is running on? Skip the fan and make the console a hotplate.
For one thing if the console serves multiple purposes it limits the amount of things you can do at the same time. With multiple devices that serve one purpose and does that one thing very well you have more options on how to set it all up and how to use it. Plus if you want to upgrade a device you don't have to find a replacement that has all the options. Want a new dvd player? Just buy a new dvd player instead of a whole new PS2 that serves as your dvd player also.
I'd rather have a game console that JUST plays games. I don't want to pay more for something that I'll never use.
The one single reason that made me buy an xbox was that I could chip it and run xboxmediaplayer on it. Without that, and dvd, I wouldn't be playing xbox games today. It's kind of sad that microsoft aren't exploiting these possibilities, as it would give the xbox some really unique features over it's opponents. And yes, I did actually buy a few games for it...