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Replace Your Music....Again

sethadam1 writes "I was not at all surprised to find that experts are predicting the death of the compact disc in as little as 5 years. This article over at Ananova suggests the next format of music will be little fingernail-sized cards. As cool as these sound, is anyone else worried that sneaky industry folks might try to distribute all new music in DRM'ed WMA files?" Yeah, this description sounds basically like bigger Magic Gate, that wonderful situation where you can pay more than normal to get DRM. Update: 11/13 16:45 GMT by H : As RobertB-DC pointed, this is sort of a dupe - see our previous article.

85 of 538 comments (clear)

  1. No thanks by w.p.richardson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll keep what I have - I can't imagine what the benefit of the "upgrade" would be. I can imagine the significant limitations. Ergo, I stand pat.

    --

    Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!

    1. Re:No thanks by Pyro226 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Ergo, I stand pat.

      Am I the only one thats increased an increase in the use of the word Ergo since the architect scene in the Matrix? Is therefore not good enough anymore?

      --
      This message is encrypted with Quad ROT-13 to protect the author's copyright under the DMCA.
    2. Re:No thanks by gricholson75 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's why you make a new copy every few years.

  2. They Won't Get Me! by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 5, Funny
    I've got 10 CD Players and 10 CD Recorders and 10 copies of every CD I own safely stored away in my technology cellar gathering dust. If these bastards try to switch to some DRM nonsense, I'll live safely off my reserves.

    --
    I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
    1. Re:They Won't Get Me! by kakos · · Score: 3, Funny

      Too bad those CDs will degrade in a few years and your reserves consist soley of Britney Spears and N'Sync.

    2. Re:They Won't Get Me! by pebs · · Score: 2, Funny

      Too bad those CDs will degrade in a few years and your reserves consist soley of Britney Spears and N'Sync.

      I believe he also has a robot in his technology cellar that goes and makes a copy of each and every CD every few years. That's what I do anyways.

      --
      #!/
    3. Re:They Won't Get Me! by Neop2Lemus · · Score: 2, Funny
      My robot also copies itself every few years to prevent its' own degradation.

      Now I have hundreds...

      --
      Needle Nardle Noo
  3. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article isn't about the death of compact discs, it's about that new storage medium they've discovered that was already reported about. Death of compact disc is just Ananova's bullshit spin on the topic.

    Jeez, maybe Hemos should RTFA before posting.

    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And what's further amusing is that many of us are glad to see CDs go the way of vinyl as a distribution method for music. But why do I want to buy yet another physical format for my music? I want the digital data. Nothing more, nothing less. Preferably in a digital format that allows me to make my own CDs, load the file onto portable devices (containing either hard drives or flash memory), and play it on my computer (which has the "out" from the sound card headed straight to "in" on the amplifier). I don't care how you transfer the data to me, whether it's CDs, memory flakes, broadband, telegraph, or telepathically... just so long as it gets to my music server where I can use as previously described.

    2. Re:What? by PhxBlue · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd rather have just a plain audio CD. I can record it in the format of my choice, and then do any of the things you describe above. If it's provided in a digital file format, it may or may not allow me to make CDs, load it onto portable devices, etc.; but if it's in an audio format, I control the format it takes once I record it onto my hard drive.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    3. Re:What? by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, and with all the DRM they are throwing at us, CDs are so much more universal by comparison. Just about any OS, for example, can play a CD, and oh so many inexpensive CD players... same thing with MP3.

      If they released everything in MP3, then people would complain there is no way to get the high quality you get with a CD. If they use another format, people will complain it's not mp3.

      God forbid they use a DRM crippled format... just what consumers want - to pay more for our content (because of encryption licensing fees) and pay more for our playback devices (because of decryption licensing fees). The injury is that it's crippled, the insult is that you have to pay more for it to be crippled.

      No, just keep giving me plain CDs, for now, thanks.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    4. Re:What? by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, sorry to say this man, but the per-client decryption fee for every method of DRM I can think of is WAY less than the licensing fees people paid to SONY for CD mechanisms back in the day. Those were around $5 a unit, if I remember correctly, whereas per-client decrtption licenses are generally under $1.

      Licensing technology is the way we pay for research. I think it's unconscionable that you don't want companies to make money off the riskiest part of business.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    5. Re:What? by bahamat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      God forbid they use a DRM crippled format... just what consumers want - to pay more for our content (because of encryption licensing fees) and pay more for our playback devices (because of decryption licensing fees). The injury is that it's crippled, the insult is that you have to pay more for it to be crippled.

      Don't worry. This will all play out and it'll eventually end up fine. Makers of music playing devices have given consumers what they want (MP3 players) in spite of RIAA's fight against it. When the MP3 boom got big the audiophiles revolted and started using OGG and FLAC. Now Rio is coming out with a new player that supports both OGG and FLAC (of course in addition to MP3/WMA).

      Beside all of that, at some point the digital bits must be converted into an analog line signal. That's when you take it and plug it into the line in jack on your computer and click record. There are probably at least a good number of you out there who work with professional sound mixing boards and you know how universal the jacks and signals we work with are. XLR, RCA, 1/4 in, 8mm, none of these jacks are going away any time soon.

      I don't care how it's distributed. If it can be heard it can be recorded.

    6. Re:What? by gfxguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, then that's a fundamental difference in opinions we have - I'll pay for technology that I like, I don't feel I should be forced to pay for technology I don't like, especially when it restricts my freedom. Note that I didn't say I had the "right" to anything, I said it restricts my freedom - in that I am not free to use the music I've legally purchased in ways that I would like to.

      If the music companies business models are failing, that's not my fault, nor is it my problem. If they keep raising prices, they are only going to encourage more copyright infringement - they need to change their business models or they will fail, but it will not be the end of music, it will only be an adjustment.

      As I pointed out, DRM technologies may not restrict you, but they have restricted me in the past, and I refuse to pay for them. That linux doesn't play your records or tapes is a red-herring because we're not talking about analog formats, are we? Neither windows nor MacOS will play them either.

      I also "just want to be able to pay for music, listen to it, and know that the money went to the artist being able to EAT FOOD so maybe they'll be alive to make more music." I don't believe that DRM is necessary to make that happen, and I don't believe I should have to pay for it.

      Let me put it this way: the record companies make a certain amount of profit. If they add DRM, they are doing that for their benefit, not mine. It should come out of their profits, but that's NOT the way it's playing out.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
  4. wierd dimensions by PhuCknuT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Compact discs could be history within five years, superseded by a new generation of fingertip-sized memory tabs with no moving parts.

    Scientists say each paper-thin device could store more than a gigabyte of information - equivalent to 1,000 high quality images - in one cubic centimetre of space.


    So they are fingertip sized, paper thin, and a cubic centimeter? I'm having trouble forming a mental image of this...

    1. Re:wierd dimensions by cgenman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps they mean the justification is paper thin?

    2. Re:wierd dimensions by Threni · · Score: 5, Funny

      >So they are fingertip sized, paper thin, and a cubic centimeter? I'm having trouble forming
      >a mental image of this...

      Hey guys, check out old human-fingers over there!! He doesn't have paper cubes at the end of this fingers! Weirdo!

    3. Re:wierd dimensions by CaptainBaz · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know you've been using a word processor too long when it takes you several minutes to comprehend how justification could be anything other than "left", "center", "right" or "full" :-)

    4. Re:wierd dimensions by alexq · · Score: 2, Informative

      They're saying they store a gigabyte of information per cubic centimeter - but the devices they plan to sell are fingertip-sized and paper-thin -- and thus will hold (presumably much?) less than a gigabyte. :) Compact discs could be history within five years, superseded by a new generation of fingertip-sized memory tabs with no moving parts. Scientists say each paper-thin device could store more than a gigabyte of information - equivalent to 1,000 high quality images - in one cubic centimetre of space. So they are fingertip sized, paper thin, and a cubic centimeter? I'm having trouble forming a mental image of this...

  5. Already here in Montreal by denisbergeron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can buy music in a fingernail card in Toysrus with rhe little reader for 10$ (Can) and you can buy card with two or three song for +/- 5$ (Can)

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
    1. Re:Already here in Montreal by freeweed · · Score: 2, Informative

      Toys R Us has been selling those things North America wide for many years now. So has Wal-Mart.

      They're nothing like the posted story at all. Basically, you're talking incredibly low quality sound, and afaik not even complete songs. They use similar technologies to those talking Simpsons toys, or the Star Wars Commreader - basically, take the cheapest solid state storage medium you can find, cram as much as you can onto it by reducing the audio quality down to almost noise, hook up some cheap DAC and a 30 cent Radio Shack speaker, and sell it as a TOY for pre-teens.

      Just slightly different from a 1 gigabyte storage medium intended to hold CD quality albums played back on actual stereo equipment.

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    2. Re:Already here in Montreal by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're kidding right?

      Linux was ported to the Amiga before most of you even heard of it.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  6. Indy Musicians by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One thing I can't help but wonder is how these changes in the medium we distribute music on will effect the low-budget independant musician. As a musician that's tried to produce albums without the help of a record label I have to wonder if a medium like this could do wonders for bands with no money and big dreams. I know a few years back it was rather expensive just to produce cds in bulk and cds are very inexpensive. But now, if they have these little polymer chips, it should be of almost no cost to the musician. Anyone else follow my thinking?

    --


    The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    1. Re:Indy Musicians by valdis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A co-worker has a band, and they've released like 8 or 9 albums. Last I asked him, the break-even point for CD's was a press run of only 500 or so. And once you have a good master, a second press run is a lot cheaper.

      I think their biggest expense for their last album was studio time, even though they did it in a small local (downtown, in the evenings, upstairs from some store that closed at 5PM) studio.

    2. Re:Indy Musicians by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Good points.

      You bring up a very good point with studio time. However, if there was a way to easily produce these chips from a home studio (like CDs) then not only would the artist be able to record the album with no costs (other than studio equipment) but they would also be able to create and distribute very high quality recordings (the chips) that wouldn't loose quality over time.

      I've tried to create my own cds and then burn them on to store-bought CDRs and I've noticed that they don't work very well on low-end CD players. If I could create my own high-quality chips that never loose quality and will sound the same on every "player" that would be the way to go.

      Just my $0.02

      --


      The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    3. Re:Indy Musicians by back_pages · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Alright, I'm sort of talking out of my ass here, but I have spent a lot of time thinking about this very issue.

      My hypothesis is that if the record labels alienate the general public past a certain point, there will be a huge shift in the pop culture surrounding music in America. (They have assuredly alienated the adjective public which represents geeks, nerds, struggling musicians, people who understand the problem, etc., pick your adjective.)

      When your average teenager has enough angst for the record labels that he would rather not listen than buy the CD (rather than the current situation - download for free rather than pay) I opine that there will then be sufficient motive for a real shift in what defines success in popular music. When big label music becomes out of style simply for being produced by big labels, popular music in America will become a localized, fan-driven industry that will probably produce less revenue overall but it won't be unreasonable to expect a pay increase for the artists.

      We (the public) have already shown that downloading music is a tried and true popular method of distributing music. Downloading music for free only hurts the people who intend to make money off of the sale of CDs, let's be honest about it. Bands that made their fortune off of playing live (Phish, Grateful Dead, to a lesser extent the industry rebelling Pearl Jam, Black Crows, etc.) would LOVE to have their music distributed for free. It establishes a fan base in towns that the band has never visited. When the band rolls in for a show, instead of starting from scratch and selling seats based on hype, they already have a captive audience that knows the music, knows the band's image, and (in 98% of America where there isn't anything to do on the weekends) would love to drop $15-50 to see the band perform live.

      So the business model would be similar to bands in college towns. The band proves itself as an onstage act and builds some local following in the local college town. They would probably be wise to identify themselves with that town ("Represent the LBC", mention the school's football team in a song, write a poetic lyric about the human experience in Appalachia, whatever) which then gives the original local fanbase a feeling of investment in the band. "I remember when they were just starting out, and that hit song is about the bar we used to hang out at together."

      As they become a success in one area, distribute the music as far and as wide as possible, facilitated in no small part by the internet. For God's sake, force people to download and listen to your music if you can. Then expand your area of influence to a 50, 250, 500 mile radius. Before you know it, you'll be able to fill a venue more admirable than a bar, charge more for tickets, subsidize the production of CDs which you can sell at shows.

      The bottom line is that by starting locally and using the internet as a publicity tool, it will be possible to build a career in popular music without any record company's interference. Some bands have already done this and it's really not a revolutionary idea, but the key to it becoming more widespread is big label music. The audience isn't very receptive to bands like this when Britney Spears is the latest and greatest thing on MTV. Once the RIAA really screws with everyone, people will rediscover the greatness of paying artists directly by going to local shows. The groups that seize that opportunity will come out on top.

    4. Re:Indy Musicians by WaysideWeasle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My band just finished recording our first album. Looking at duplication, it's going to run close to $1,100 for a run of 500 CD's, but $1,700 for 1000. There's so much more cost savings at 1000 CD's than at 500. But to bring this back on topic, I'm curious if this new technology will make it cheaper to duplicate and distribute music. If so, then the indie musicians could very well put a huge dent in the Record Label's income. But I can't stop wondering...Why does someone need all of that storage space for an album? I can understand it being used by consumers to compile playlists and such, but most bands put out 10-13 songs on an album, and I can't see how the file sizes could require GB's of space, unless they plan on placing each track on the album instead compiling them. I could then envision the label's encrypting each track so the consumer would have to go through great lengths to rip the songs. Imagine having to rip 23 tracks per song individually. They could then even place the tracks in random locations on the memory card and create a program that instructs the device that reads the card what order to read the tracks in. Sounds like a lot of trouble to prevent people from sharing music, which someone would figure out how to crack in weeks anyways.

  7. Fingernail-sized cards? by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does anyone else think that fingernail-sized cards for music is a BAD idea? I have enough problems keeping track of CDs sometimes, these things would be incredible easy to lose.

    Of course, the RIAA would love that - "Sorry, you'll have to buy another copy!"

    1. Re:Fingernail-sized cards? by Leomania · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly right. There are numerous "baloney" elements to this "story":

      1. CDs are pervasive. You can use them at home, in your car, in portable devices. They crossed the "good enough" threshold for the mainstream (America and other countries included).

      2. Form factor. Please, don't try to tell me that a form factor much smaller than a memory stick is reasonable. The memory stick would be a nearly ideal form factor, IHMO. Consider trying to put a squarish card into a car audio player; you'd likely need an eject mechamism like for CompactFlash. The longer, narrower format of the memory stick would allow for easy insertion and removal of the media, and it's not *quite* so easy to lose as one of the smaller cards or this fingernail size they're talking about in the article.

      3. People are getting upgrade annoyance. It's bad enough with computers, but with the installed base of CD/DVD players out there and the compatability of the CDs between the computer and home/car audio systems, the amount of equipment to upgrade is prohibitive. Hmmm, okay, this is closely related to #1, but the main point was people getting tired of obsoleting equipment.

      Let's just see them try to stop selling CDs in five or even ten years. Assuming they don't like declining revenues and profits, they won't get rid of CDs -- DRM or no DRM.

      - Leo

      --
      You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
  8. No way, not that fast by scovetta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    5 years in a very short time on the market as pervasive as the music industry. I still buy videotapes (no, not Betamax), but how long have DVDs been available? Consumer demand will keep CDs rolling until either (a) the quality of this new media is much better, (b) they offer some added value (cheaper?), or (c) CDs are simply no longer produced. I doubt that (c) would happen because the RIAA goes into fits if their revenue drops 10%, how'd they like a 50-60% drop because people don't want to buy chip players (for their homes, cars, walkmans, etc)-- it's too big of a change, too soon. Maybe 10 years...

    --
    Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
  9. Re:yeah by mike77 · · Score: 5, Funny
    sure there is!

    Giant EMP'S!

    Tell me Mr. Anderson, what good is an mp3 if you have nothing to play it on?

    --

    --Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time

  10. It's their buisness by CaptBubba · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The industry makes their money off of people replacing old formats. Now that pretty much everyone has converted their old collections to CD, that stream of money has pretty much dried up.

    It really was only a matter of time before a new format with one or two new features (and a few glaring flaws to be fixed in the next format) would be introduced as the replacement to the compact disc.

  11. Just in Case of /. ing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    CDs 'could be history in five years'

    Compact discs could be history within five years, superseded by a new generation of fingertip-sized memory tabs with no moving parts.

    Scientists say each paper-thin device could store more than a gigabyte of information - equivalent to 1,000 high quality images - in one cubic centimetre of space.

    Experts have developed the technology by melding together organic and inorganic materials in a unique way.

    They say it could be used to produce a single-use memory card that permanently stores data and is faster and easier to operate than a CD.

    It's claimed that turning the invention into a commercially viable product might take as little as five years.

    The card would not involve any moving parts, such as the laser and motor drive required by compact discs. Its secret is the discovery of a previously unknown property of a commonly-used conductive plastic coating.

    US scientists at Princeton University, New Jersey, and computer giants Hewlett-Packard combined the polymer with very thin-film, silicon-based electronics.

    The device would be like a standard CD-R (CD-recordable) disc in that writing data onto it makes permanent changes and can only be done once. But it would also resemble a computer memory chip, because it would plug directly into an electronic circuit and have no moving parts.

    A report in the journal Nature described how the researchers identified a new property of a polymer called PEDOT.

    PEDOT, which is clear and conducts electricity, has been used for years as an anti-static coating on photographic film. Researchers looked at ways of using PEDOT to store digital information. In the new memory card, data in the form of ones and zeroes would be represented by polymer pixels.

    When information is recorded, higher voltages at certain points in the circuit grid would "blow" the PEDOT fuses at those points. As a result, data is permanently etched into the device. A blown fuse would from then on be read as a zero, while an unblown one that lets current pass through is read as a one.

    Story filed: 18:07 Wednesday 12th November 2003
  12. Yeah right... by doctechniqal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Old music formats never die, they just become niche markets. Vinyl is still around, and with CD/DVD drives on so many PCs, compact discs aren't really going to go away anytime soon. Moreover, one factor not taken into account is the packaging: what are they going to do, start printing fingernail-sized booklets of the artwork and lyrics that you can only read with an electron microscope?

  13. Shortsighted by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Ananova article focuses solely on the implications for music storage. That will, no doubt, be a major application, but the important part of the story is: permanent, reliable storage with a data density of 1 GB/cm^3, for God's sake! This seems to me like a major breakthrough that will have implications far beyond whether we can or can't rip an MP3 of the latest disposable pop star of the week's manufactured hit single.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:Shortsighted by pi+radians · · Score: 2, Funny

      what's cool is that they can scale it down.

      Exactly! Just like I can scale down Gentoo to make it operate on any system!

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
  14. they sound small... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    finally i can put my music with my coin collection... in the couch.

  15. Five years is bull, read the article by tuffy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The researchers claim: "turning the invention into a commercially viable product might take as little as five years". Would that turn out to be true and this device takes off, it'll still take a few years to push CDs out of the marketplace. Though I'm certain the RIAA would love to sell you your music colllection all over again, that task would likely take years more to complete.

    --

    Ita erat quando hic adveni.

  16. Benefit of the upgrade by DrEldarion · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, there could be all sort of fun upgrades, depending on how much the cards store. Maybe they could put DVD-like things on there - special features, commentary, 5.1 surround sound. It might actually make buying these things worthwhile.

    1. Re:Benefit of the upgrade by metallicagoaltender · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Considering things of that nature are already available with current technology, shitcanning CDs in favor of these little cards isn't really necessary.

      However, if they're willing to sell these things at a reasonable price as the primary medium for music, and end the gouging that exists with CDs, I'd consider it a step forward. If it's just a new medium the industry can overcharge for, then screw it.

    2. Re:Benefit of the upgrade by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 4, Informative
      But they kinda fall into the "not good enough".

      In the UK, the large supermarkets started undercutting record shops by importing from other EU countries. The record company response was to start releasing "special editions" for the UK with video clips/a few extra crap tracks/remixes.

      Most people won't pay the extra money for a few gimmicks. It was music quality and size that sold CDs. People have a replacement on the size front - MP3 players. They won't do much more about quality.

    3. Re:Benefit of the upgrade by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 5, Funny
      However, if they're willing to sell these things at a reasonable price as the primary medium for music, and end the gouging that exists with CDs, I'd consider it a step forward. If it's just a new medium the industry can overcharge for, then screw it.

      Of course they will! Now, naturally they will have to start out a little more than CD's, but just to recoup the equipment investment. But soon the prices will drop dramatically!
      Really!
      No, no. This time they will!
      Promise!
      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    4. Re:Benefit of the upgrade by balloonhead · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Of course they'll do the same as with CDs. Even though tapes cost more to produce, they're less expensive. It'll be the same with these.

      However, the good bit is - now they'll drop the prices of CDs to what tapes are now. I can't see a reason to change - CDs offer considerable advantages over tapes (particularly not having to FF and REW to the right bit) which these wouldn't offer over CDs. Except size, which is not a huge benefit when we have cheap MP3 players which we can easily use to carry music around if we want to jog to it.

      --
      This idea was invented by Shampoo.
    5. Re:Benefit of the upgrade by metallicagoaltender · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm quite content with CDs as well, but when new albums start being releases solely on the new format, with no CD pressing, it obviously becomes a problem.

      Granted, I wouldn't see the underground metal genre (don't judge my musical tastes by my username, as I've been using it for 5+ years) as being the earliest to adopt the new technology, but I don't want to see a new format until it's a tangible gain in terms of both technological benefits and cost.

  17. Sounds good but by JamesD_UK · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm always loosing CD's how am I going to sort through a collection of thumbnail sized pieces of plastic, I just know I'd loose everything! Did anyone else notice in the article that the "paper thin" devices can store 1GB in a cubic centimeter? I'm pretty sure something paper thing with a volume of 1cc is more than thumbnail sized. I assume that these 'thumbnails' aren't supposed to hold 1GB?

  18. Form factor won't work by RobertB-DC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes, we all know this article is a dupe, but Ananova slanted the data to look at CDs in particular.

    The problem with replacing CDs with this technology is the form factor:

    Scientists say each paper-thin device could store more than a gigabyte of information - equivalent to 1,000 high quality images - in one cubic centimetre of space.

    I have enough trouble finding my CDs in the car without having to worry about them blowing away in a stiff breeze. If size were the issue, CD Singles would be released on half-size discs... in fact, many pop albums don't seem to have more than 30 minutes of music anyway.

    The best way to incorporate this technology in a consumer-oriented music distribution would be to enclose it in a larger plastic enclosure with an interface to the player. Something like this, perhaps?

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  19. Cassette Tapes Rule by fleener · · Score: 4, Funny

    This news comes as fresh amusement because I am on the verge of converting my CD collection to cassette tape. Cassettes are cheaper media, devoid of DRM, and my car came with a cassette player by default.

    I don't dislike CDs, but every CD player I've owned has eventually broken, while my portable cassette players from the '80s are still rollin'.

    I'm pretty darn sure that whatever The Corporation decides will be The Next Best Thing, I will still be able to dub it to tape.

  20. That's Awe-some! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The future of music is cookie-cutter boy bands and oversexed boobie-girls on little cards.

    Don't we already have this? They're called Hit-Clips by Tiger and they look like they suck.

    I don't see how the *new, Improved version* for adults is going to be any better.

    I think the future of music is that artists will actually come to your house and play, as that is the only way the record company execs will be able to get their kids solid-gold braces.

    Launching way OT, remeber that promotion that Master Card was running where they show the record industry intern make his way up the ladder to exec, where he has a fur coat, a private helicopter, and a stripper on each arm? Priceless.

  21. Re:DRM is a *feature* by Threni · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >Once again, I'll refer to the old "Only Criminals Would Oppose This" arguement.

    The one which is wheeled out whenever freedom is being threatened, such as cctv, id cards, drug tests at work etc etc?

  22. Re:DRM is a *feature* by darkstar949 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I disagree, smaller does not always mean better. Yes, a good sized collection of CD's tend to take up some space, but people like to display their CD collection, and it is harder to lose a CD than a small memory stick (I have already lost one)

  23. Re:Fingernail-sized cards? -- wait til its smaller by donutz · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does anyone else think that fingernail-sized cards for music is a BAD idea? I have enough problems keeping track of CDs sometimes, these things would be incredible easy to lose.

    That's why I'm going to wait until music is distributed on a pill-sized pill. That way, you just swallow it, and the music is absorbed into your brain cells, giving you a permanent copy -- no worries about losing it or it being stolen.

    Come to think of it, this should be a cure (or at least a treatment) for when you get a song stuck in your head...you just eat a different song to overwrite it.

    And I'm sure the RIAA will be all over this new music format, positively love it: how are you going to share what's in your head? They can't lose!

  24. Re:Fingernail sized cards? I doubt it by bigman2003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think that the future of music lies in its media format. Those days are gone.

    But, I agree with the parent, the big future is distribution. Of course, that is what everyone is talking about now- creating a new method to download music.

    What the music is stored on will be secondary. Some people will put it on a hard-drive, some on Compact Flash, some will burn CD's.

    The CD/DVD media is not too bad, but carrying around an entire CD for just one album sucks. More CD players will be able to play MP3/WMA/(insert your favorite codec here).

    Who cares what the music will be stored on in retail stores- nobody will be getting their music there in 5 years anyway.

    --
    No reason to lie.
  25. Size? You must be kidding... by nosfucious · · Score: 2, Funny

    1cm cubed? Huh, i'll probably miss it and stuff it in my morning, not very awake, coffee.

    I thought credit card size and form was about right. Then my memory jogged and I recalled my days at my previous job. How many PCMCIA cards were lost by "accident" by thoughtless management PHBs?

    (I reckon I know that more than a few early expensive ones ended up at Crown Casino via Cash Converters).

    Yeah, and I'd better be able to get the music off this thing and put it back my Nex-II. AND I want to back this up or gaurenteed low cost ($1 ~ $2 max) should it be faulty/or I already own the CD.

    --
    Q:I was listening to a CD in Grip and it sounded horrible! What's up? A:Perhaps you are listening to country music
  26. Re:DRM is a *feature* by bladernr · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Only thieves would be phased by restrictions of fair use.

    Yes, I know the spirit of this post, but... Actual consumers cherish "fair use." IMHO, no DRM should interfere with fair use.

    I should be able to make as many copies as I feel like on as any devices as I own. That is fair use. If the producers want to prevent infringing uses like Internet swapping, it is their responsibility to do it in such as way as to not interfere with fair use.

    I am a solid IP and "rights of the copyright owner" supporter, but I am just as strong a fair use supporter. I will boycott anything that stops my fair use rights.

    --
    Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
  27. cover art! by feed_those_kitties · · Score: 2, Funny
    Look at this 'album' cover! It's a DOT!!

    Sometimes, smaller isn't better...

  28. Why? by fizban · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why waste money on more expensive solid state distribution methods when we already have a cheaper solution working today?

    There's absolutely no need to sell new fingernail sized cards that replace CDs, when they can just distribute over the internet. If anyone needs to carry around their music, then they can just buy memory cards and move their music around on those.

    And on another point, if they start selling fingernail sized cards, are they still going to package them in CD size boxes and waste more space than they have to?

    --

    +1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.

    1. Re:Why? by fishbowl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My riovolt runs a battery charge out pretty quickly playing a CD, because the disc spins the whole time. But when playing MP3's off a cd, it only spins the disc when it needs to read and decode. Runs much, much longer on a battery charge.

      If we could get CDDA ripping speed faster, we could have players that simply rip the audio from the CD and play it from RAM.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  29. Re:DRM is a *feature* by wtrmute · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DRM is a feature, all right. For the media producers. It does not add value to the final user, therefore it is not a feature for her. It's merely a characteristic.

    On the other hand, if the DRM on the Flash chip meant that if end-user's copy is somehow corrupted, she can go to the music store and have it replaced without having to spend her money to buy it over again, then it would be a feature.

    As it stands, DRM in digital media are only good for headaches when one tries to store personal backup data. That and the fact that I can't send my European cousins a gift DVD because of region-code incompatibilities. Feature, all right.

  30. Except by mcc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they could put DVD-like things on there - special features, commentary, 5.1 surround sound. It might actually make buying these things worthwhile.

    I noticed that when, for awhile, they tried to do this exact same thing under the name "Enhanced CD-ROM", it was more or less a commercial flop..

    1. Re:Except by proj_2501 · · Score: 2, Informative

      which do you mean?

      there are HDCD and SACD formats which have multiple layers and thus can have more channels of sound

      or do you mean the cd with something like a video included, which is usually only used for singles anyway?

  31. The Future is Media-less by ToKsUri · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These people think that music will continue its 'logical progression' of Vinyl-->Casettes-->CDs-->Something_cool_and_small. The point they dont get is that music doesnt need an unique media to be stored anymore.

    The concept of music has jumped the physical barrier of having to be stored in one determined medium. Now the medium is no longer important as it can and should be distributed to all types of medium without restrictions. How this affects artists rights, it is the same old debate...

  32. To quote Tommy Lee Jones in MIB by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 4, Funny

    'Oh great, now I have to get the White Album all over again.'

    --
    'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
  33. Recorded Music is Dead by Sleen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its not just the death of cds, but recorded music that is coming. Lets face it, there is nothing special about buying a protools rig, some microphones and cruising the highschools for some talent. The recorded medium is already dead. The emphasis will shift away from automatic music generators, autotune, and all the dj's masquerading as talent.

    Music was, and is still a PROCESS, not a file, in the system.

    More and more musicians, even the electronic ones are adopting the discipline of creating as opposed to REPAIRING music.

    For superior event driven acoustic phenomena, I recommend these tools

  34. Shipping music? by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do we need a new media format to ship music? What's the point? You haven't needed to "ship" music for years now. It's a download.

    Where have these guys been?

  35. Headlines suck, this one too by release7 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Nowhere in the article is anyone quoted as saying "CD's will be history in 5 years". Record companies are going to pick the next medium base on two criteria:

    1) Will it sell?
    2) Can it stop unauthorized copying?

    I'm sure record companies are eyeballing many potential storage technologies to replace CDs. But the article doesn't give one good reason why these chips will be tha annointed one.

    --

    <a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>

  36. Re:Why not ? by grub · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Why not just create CD players with proprietary audio-out jacks that aren't compatible with computers.

    .. but are compatible with standard stereo equipment? Please explain how you would accomplish this feat.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  37. less dense than DVD by morcheeba · · Score: 4, Informative

    A DVD has a volume of 13.56 cm^3, and stores up to 17 GB (2 sides, each dual layered). That yields a density of 1.25 GB/cm^3, and I was being generous by including the hole in the volume measurement. Surely they can do better.

    Also, seeing as this hasn't come out yet, it will compete with other future products, like blueray, which weighs in at 23.3 GB/side and 3.4 GB/cm^3.

  38. Lessons in reality by salesgeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's look at the history of digital storage media and copy protection:

    * Floppy Disk - lots of stuff got tried, it all got hacked.
    * Hard Disks - lots of stuff got tried, it all got hacked.
    * Removable Media - lots of stuff got tried, it all got hacked.
    * CDs/DVDs - Still trying lots of stuff, it all got hacked.
    * Removable RAM/ROM storage - been around forever, and for the most part has mostly been hacked.
    * paper thin thumbnail size media - stuff will get tried, it will get hacked.

    You would think in 30-40 years of computer technology that someone would figure out it's next to impossible to secure digital information FROM BEING DUPLICATED.

    The paper thin, thumbnail media is cool. DRM is a waste of time and money.

    --
    -- $G
  39. 5 years? It's not even proven technology! by nerph · · Score: 2, Interesting
    From New Scientist:

    To store the memory, the researchers use the wires and the diode surrounding the PEDOT blob to run either a high or a low current through it.
    ...
    In their paper in Nature, the researchers describe just one such junction. But for a memory application, the device will need many more.
    So they've gotten it to work with one BLOB of this polymer! I haven't read the Nature article but elsewhere I can't find any mention on how they plan on achieving the suggested density. This sounds like a cool idea but there also seems to be a lot of Marketing Hype(tm) mixed in.

  40. Re:fp by mirko · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They have very few to catch consumers this time : when the CD was out, they argued the quality was better and so on.
    Now, we all have CDs which is an uncompressed, perfect 16bit copy of music.
    As of yet, most people are really happy with their CDs because the recorded stuff is in stereo (originally, so there's very few interest converting it to 5.1) and they won't easily differentiate their 16 vs 24bit resolutions so, it will be damn' hard to sell them something new.

    --
    Trolling using another account since 2005.
  41. How Many Times Again by ajs318 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The public will not fall for such a cheap stunt again. CD is here to stay for a looooong time. Its faults are quite tolerable. The only reason anyone ever put up with the lousy audio quality of walkman tapes was the ability to record your own at home. One of the recordable DVD formats, together with an open-standard audio codec, will be the next logical progression for portables. Uncompressed CD can already stray beyond the ken of most consumer-grade headphones and loudspeakers. If any new format takes over, it will be one we can record at home - and whatever it is, we're not going to pay to replace our CDs with it in the same way we replaced our vinyl LPs with CDs.

    Now think about this for awhile. When you buy a piece of prerecorded media, the cost is going two ways. Some is going on stuff that you can do for yourself {i.e. writing to media and assorted logistical matters}, and some is going on stuff you can't {i.e. singing the song in the first place -- well, you could do that, but I'm assuming you want to hear it as performed by the original group}.

    We should contact our representatives and push for a new law: Non-Discriminatory Licencing. The gist is, if the group has licenced the record label to sell the music on their media in return for a certain fee paid to the group, then anyone should be licenced under the same agreement to make one copy of the music for the same fee. Furthermore, anyone distributing the content to third parties must make said third parties aware of the fact that they have a right to make copies conditional on payment of a fee, the amount to send and who to send it to.

    Fair enough, it won't stop anyone copying without paying; but I think there are many people who would pay a nominal fee in return for not being criminalised, and I don't see for one instant what difference it makes whether or not I involve the record labels, as long as the artist gets their money. Record labels are just middlemen - and expensive ones at that. Everyone likes to miss out the middleman if they can.

    Traditional deal: I pay 14.99 for prerecorded CD, record co. takes 14.00, artist gets 0.99 {note these figures may not be strictly accurate as I don't know for certain how much of the purchase price of a CD goes to the artist}
    Under NDL: I pay 0.20 for blank CD, 0.02 for electricity, 0.99 to artist, artist gets 0.99.

    If I wanted to sell the media I had recorded, or offer the files for paid download, I - not the eventual recipient - would be responsible for paying the artist's fee, and the law should not allow me to disclaim such responsibility.

    If anyone cares enough to comment, I'll probably write a more official-sounding spec for my NDL vision that might be better received by government types.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  42. There won't be a next physical medium. by dozer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know without a doubt what the next physical medium will be for me.

    Zilch.

    After getting used to my 60 GB MP3 player (swapped drives on my laptop and Archos) and ripping all my music into my computer, I'll never get up to go swap a (tape/cd/fingernail speck) again.

    There won't be a next physical medium.

  43. Re:DRM is a *feature* by untaken_name · · Score: 2, Funny

    >Once again, I'll refer to the old "Only Criminals Would Oppose This" arguement.

    The one which is wheeled out whenever freedom is being threatened, such as cctv, id cards, drug tests at work etc etc?


    My favorite thing to do when this hoary old chestnut gets trotted out is ask the trotter-outer whether he/she is for daily body cavity searches for each and every citizen of the US. If not, I ask them what exactly it is they have to hide, since only criminals have anything to fear. Plus, it would help early-detection rates of prostate cancer, and thus anyone who opposes this measure is demonstrably pro-cancer and probably a criminal, too.

  44. Indie musicians have seen formats come and go by mattbot+5000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But now, if they have these little polymer chips, it should be of almost no cost to the musician. Anyone else follow my thinking?

    It seems to me what you're hinting at is a future of music without the middle man (i.e. record labels) if artists are able to produce at low or no cost the music they make. Except that artists can do that now, via mp3s or some other form of electronic file distribution, or do as you did by burning their music onto CD-Rs. The real issue isn't so much the cost of the manufacturing as it is the necessity of the record label for purposes of distribution if an artist has "big dreams."

    Independent music has thrived through vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, CDs, and mp3s, I doubt a new media format will change the nature of the industry significantly.

  45. Not enough reason to switch by Experiment+626 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When cassettes came along, they offered an advantage that appealed to customers: they were small enough to take with you.

    CD's offered improved sound quality and much better ease of use (no more fast forwarding, rewinding, or turning the media over to hear the rest). They also avoid the glitches or pops that other media develop under normal wear and tear - CD's only scratch from mishandling, not from the laser wearing them out. These advantages allowed them to overcome their (artificially) higher price and initial read-only limitation

    Other media have been proposed but not caught on. 8 tracks briefly flourished, but offered no advantages over a cassette tape, yet were bulkier and more annoying to use. Mini-discs offer only small size, which isn't enough. Audio DVD's have improved sound compared to CD, but this hasn't proven sufficient reason for anyone but an audiophile niche to take much interest.

    On the other hand, MP3 has slightly lower sound quality than a CD, but has gained widespread acceptance, much to the RIAA's chagrin. Ease of use surpasses even the CD, and the portability problem has been solved - a person's entire music collection can fit into their pocket, or listened to across a (high bandwidth) network with no physical media at all. A bonus for the user is the upgrade path. Rather than it being easier for the user to buy all the music they already legally own/license/whatever over again, a CD ripper is all that is needed to move your previous investment into the modern times.

    In this landscape, where does this new format fit in? What does it bring to the table that would compel joe user to embrace it at all, much less buy all his existing music over again? Sure, it's small, but not as small as an MP3. Manufacturers might bump the audio quality up to THX level, but that would only give a benefit to those who have both a discerning ear and high end audio equipment. Price could be dropped to entice people to switch, but the RIAA isn't that intelligent. Extras and bonus materials could be offered, a la the DVD, but that would take a lot of work from the publisher and probably be passed on as a higher price, further stacking the odds against acceptance.

    In short, I don't see what advantage this would offer would be that is compelling enough to get anyone to adopt it.

  46. Good News! by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Funny

    Farnsworth: "This is a chance for Fry to test out my experimental MP3 pill."
    Fry: "I can't swallow that!"
    Farnsworth: "Well then, good news! It's a suppository."

  47. Re:Quality increase by pmiller396 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe you and I and other normal people won't use it, but you can bet younger folks will. When the next hot boy band is only available on FingerNailChip (tm), it'll sell. If today's teenagers are like they were 20 years ago, "oldies" music is from two months ago.

  48. Uh, Hemos... by Svartalf · · Score: 2

    ...this isn't news. This is more of a consequence of the earlier article about the polymer/thin-film silicon high cap memory story. Of course all of this may end up being irrelevent in as little as five years- but it may take decades and still not be there, just like holographic storage (which held the same level of promise- and existed since the 50's and 60's...)

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  49. Re:DRM is a *feature* by zootread · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, I don't want machinists or truck drivers on grass or crack cocaine (or programmers, just look at the disastrous products from Redmond).
    Repeat after me: drug tests at work are good.


    You've gotta be kidding. First fo all, the cocaine users will be able to pass drug tests if they know in advance, cocaine does not stay in your system very long (2-3 days I think). So a business that drug tests is likely to have a few (or a lot) cocaine users.

    Its the marijuana smokers who are the victims of drug tests. Marijuana use can be detected a month after your last use, sometimes more.

    I'm a programmer. So you think I should not able to use marijuana when I'm at home on my own free time? Please explain why you think this. Thankfully, I work for someone who is pro-legalization of marijauna (and thus is strongly against drug testing). It doesn't matter what I do in my spare time, as long as I produce quality work.

    I don't want truck drivers to be drunk. But its not illegal for them to drink when they're not working.

    I hope you're not one of those people who thinks that marijuana use is harmful and that it should be illegal. Like I've said many times before, cook it in butter, and eat it, and its very healthy. Its very unfortunate such a harmless and useful drug is illegal.

    --
    Zoot!
  50. CDs are the last of their kind by lamz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I believe that CDs are the last of their kind, and will not be replaced by anything similar. Rather, the wave of the future is network distribution of the music files, either as AAC, Ogg Vorbis, MP3 or whatever you like. Once CDs are done, no one will ever go to a store to buy music on storage media.

    A little over two years ago, I bought a satellite receiver with a built-in PVR. At the time, I had plans to buy a DVD player, but never got around to doing so. I don't have a DVD player, (well, my computer has a DVD burner, but I've never watched a movie on it,) and don't miss it. Why? Because I find that the electronic distribution of movies and TV shows directly to my PVR's hard drive is superior to renting DVDs.

    There are restrictions, of course. My aging PVR only holds 30 hours of video, which rules out long-term archives. I have to program what I want recorded ahead of time, etc. However, as technology advances, these restrictions will go away. All that is needed is increased storage space, faster transfers, and some sort of ability to network PVRs together. All of those things can be accomplished today by enthusiastic home-brewers, and can be reasonably expected to show up at Costco before the decades out.

    In my picture of the home of the future, there will be a large raid array of hard drives somewhere in the basement between the furnace and the hot water heater. It will be wirelessly accessed by various devices throughout the house, such as audio players, televisions, cameras, scanners, etc.

    The important part is that no one will have to make two trips to BlockBuster for every movie they want to watch!

    --

    Mike van Lammeren
    It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.

  51. Diminishing returns on diminishing size by LiberalApplication · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This is idiotic. I'm not even talking about the DRM, I'm thinking about the form factor. There's a limit to how small something can become while still being of a practical size to the average consumer.

    Maybe if the plan were to distribute the files electronically and have them stored in bulk on one of these things the way you'd use a flash drive, but a fingernail sized format as the primary physical medium of music distribution? How on earth would these things be packaged and stored? We could have miniature jewel cases for them, or little binders, but what about the labels? How would you fit "The Mighty Mighty Bostones: More Noise and Other Disturbances" or "Beethoven Symphony No. 7, Movement 2, performed by the Philadelphia Orchestra under Christoph Eschenbach"? And what about track listings?

    Can you imagine having an Altoids tin of tiny little chips labelled with teensy-tiny ittie-bitty text, and trying to find the album you want to pop into your portable music player, while standing in a subway car or say, while driving? Can you imagine how easy it would be to lose one of these things or swear profusely as a strong gust of wind just blows them out of your car window into a fluttering confetti of $10 albums?

    I'd much rather see larger-sized storage mediums with greater capacity and do away with physical distribution of music altogether.

  52. Re:fp by michael_cain · · Score: 4, Informative
    why would they use drm wma?

    One reason is that portions of WMA are covered by PATENTS. Until those MS patents expire, MS can absolutely control who can legally implement players for the content, and the terms under which they are allowed to do the implementation. For example, the license may include large monetary penalties for failure to honor the DRM flags. Unlike the situation under DMCA, which attempts to block reverse engineering on copyright grounds, and may be subject to overturn on the basis of fair use precedents, reverse engineering of patented techniques has always been illegal and the case law all supports that.

    I can't find the links, but IIRC, at least one open source program for converting between different media formats, has withdrawn support for WMA because MS threatened them with a patent infringement lawsuit. The only real defense against an existing patent is to invalidate it in court, which can be a VERY expensive undertaking.

  53. Controlling the Marketplace and the Phoenix Phenom by TempusMagus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What folks fail to realize, and these companies especially, is that the CD format, as originally envisioned, did die a horrible death. The CD-R completely changed the landscape and started to effect people's perceptions of CDs in general. What was originally an expensive to produce one-to-many delivery mechanism had transformed into a many-to-many cheap DIY revolution that was a logical extension of what came before while maintaining backwards compatibility. "Wow! I can play this in my CAR?!" This whole escapade should serve as an object lesson. The CD revolution that we are still experiencing is the direct result of a ubiquitous and formerly closed technology being opened up without restrictions to common, and decreasingly technical, folks. If the introduction of CDR had been highly restrictive or less versatile it would have never taken off to the degree it has. I could go on for hours as why CDs are here to stay and the new DRM enabled and proprietary media formats are doomed for failure - (which is more than obvious to the /. crowd). What I find truly interesting is that introducing new DRM-ish media and formats perpetually tempts large companies. I think the main appeal is controlling the playing field followed by selling new electronics to support new formats. There is also a weird percolation of pressure between the consumer, the media giants and the electronics companies. All of them, ostensibly, wield political influence. The marketplace (consumer) does not want to be locked in. Like they used to say, it's hard to go back to the farm once you've Paris. The electronics companies - want to sell more electronics. CD burners, DVD players, PVRs etc. Selling new features and extending open media formats seems a safer play than introducing restrictive DRM enabled formats from scratch. Creating players to play media with non-standard protection schemes or media has burned them in the past. The big media giants are completely freaked out. They like being big media giants. They believe in letting the marketplace decide as long as it decides in their favor or, at the very least, doesn't question the fundamental assumptions of why we need media giants. They will bend over backwards and do anything to maintain their control - including putting massive pressure on electronics manufacturers to create more DRM enabled products. This creates an odd dynamic where media pushes DRM, electronic companies get their toes wet introducing it slowly, customers push back and get angry with the media companies for the hassle, electronic companies get cold feet and pull-back. And on and on and on and on. All the while folks will be ripping CDs to listen in the car.

    --
    -_-
  54. OT: Use of "sic" by snilloc · · Score: 2, Informative

    "sic" is used when quoting a source that contains a misspelling or other error. It's used to show that you, the one doing the quoting, are aware of the error and that you did not introduce the error.

  55. Re:Since nobody said it yet..... by Fjord · · Score: 2, Informative

    Oh, it's been said. Practically every time one of these articles come up...

    --
    -no broken link