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Home Theatre Projectors, Dell, InFocus and Sanyo
ssassen writes "Hardware Analysis is gearing up towards the holiday season with an indepth comparison of three popular home theatre projectors; the perfect gift for under the Christmas tree. They decipher the marketing mumbo-jumbo you'll be faced with and explain all that you need to know prior to buying a home theatre projector."
Once I had a room to dedicate to home theater I started looking for an affordable upgrade to the 32" TV I had been watching on.
I bought an Infocus X1 a few months ago and have been amazed. It's nearly identical to the Screenplay 4800 reviewed in the article (some software/settings tweaks and extra cables for your few hundred bucks extra for the 4800).
I bought the X1 after seeing glowing reviews on AVS Forums. There are a number of good entry level choices in the projector market now. I did make sure I bought from a place with no restocking fees, as I was worried about rainbows (X1 has a 2x color wheel and some fraction of people seem to be sensitive to them, it's a potential problem with any low end DLP)... I can see rainbows if I try, but they haven't bothered any of the 15 or so people who've watched movies on my X1.
Once I got it home & set up, I was amazed... You have to have some level of light control in your viewing area, but it's such a huge difference... I've seen only 2 movies in the theater since I got the projector... I'm projecting a ~90" diagonal 16:9 screen (note the X1/4800 is natively 4:3, but scales fine to 16:9). DVDs are spectacular, 4 player split screen Gamecube is a lot of fun (vs. squinting at your little corner of the 32" tv).
Not sure why anyone spends the $$ on a big screen CRT/FPTV/RPTV anymore. I've already converted two coworkers to projectors (an X1 & a Z1).
Now, if anyone has an easy DIY screen I can get rid of this bed sheet nailed to the ceiling in my basement....
the dell one is missing some useful features!
NO POWER SWITCH!
still, under $1k is awesome.
Can they project vertically? Since I spend most of my life being horizontal, that would be a great feature on the ceiling.
My friend likes the new Sony HD-20 projector;
/ Sony/665
It seems to be quiet and bright, with the
new HDMI interface which is a superset of DVI
and allows for longer cable length.
Ref:
http://www.projectorexperts.com/projector
Does anyone have one of these yet?
Many online and offline business rental companies will let you rent a projector. This is HIGHLY recommended. The $50-$100 more you'll spend will give you a big chance to see if the projector is for you.
Lumens, contrast ratio, and even resolution is NOT comparitive between brands. Some people see "rainbows" with DLP projectors. Some people see excess screen door with LCD projectors.
Before I bought my (CHEAP) Sanyo PLV-Z1 projector, I scoured the AVS Forums for information, and it was the best help I could find.
Now I have a 110" projector on my living room wall, the room feels twice as big (the TV took up so much space), and my projector looks great during the day, the night, and in HDTV (thanks Comcast for doing something right!).
dada
I had the interesting experience of working for a company back in 2001 that closed and couldn't pay me for the vacation that I'd accrued, so the office manager/CFO and I made a deal where I'd write off the time in exchange for the company video projector. It was probably the best deal that I'd made working with them.
I use a Philips Proscreen 4100, which is an older 800x600 projector that puts out 300 ANSI Lumens. It's not nearly as bright as modern projectors (coming in at 1000+ Lumens), but the 4000 hour lamp is nice.
I'll never go back to a TV. Even if my projector breaks and I am forced to replace it outright, I'll buy the $1500 projector again. The furniture savings, the space savings, and the ability to have a room not centered around a glass TV, but still able to become a multimedia room with 100" of screen with the pull of a retractable screen far outweighs having a fixed TV. I can take it wherever I go, and it'll fit in the trunk of my friend's Mazda Miata. I can show up to 200" diagonal picture from a computer, composite, or S-Video source on any wall suitable.
For versatility, picture size, and general niftiness, I don't think that you can beat a video projector.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
EPSON is a reference in video projectors, they are the number 1 in sales worldwide and other companies just simple OEM the products from them! My company has 2 EPSON projectors, I took one home for testing (don't tell anyone) and it rocks DVD, X and Counter-Strike!
I heard they launched a new one below 30 dB! That's silent!
.. if you need a home theatre system to make a particular film worth watching, then it's not worth watching.
We project in one of our labs using a similar unit onto a painted wall. We just had to find the proper flat white paint. Looks good, no "sun bursts" or areas of intense light from various viewing angles...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
I've noticed that many of these large screen products (projectors and PDPs) have VGA or DVI inputs and support higher resolutions than the minimum required to display an NTSC signal. Thus, they could be connected to a computer and used for multi-user computer applications (e.g., gaming, boardrooms, or extreme programming) or just a single-person big-screen. What is it like to have a big screen that is more distant than the usual monitor?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Because a 36" flat tube wide-screen TV at, say 1,500 GBP ($2,500) or a 32" screen at a fraction of that cost will probably have a lifespan of a decade, with zero maintenance costs. The same cannot be said for any LCD projector I've seen.
The inFocus rocks.
The ScreenPlay 110's connectivity options are fairly comprehensive. Without the Enhanced Connectivity Module, the projector only offers an I-MI connection for a computer (as well as a DVI connection), one S-video input, one composite video input, and a mini-jack audio input. When you add the module, you get one set of broadband component video inputs (Y/Pb/Pr) that will do 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, a standard HD-15 VGA input, a 15-pin monitor output to send the signal to a PC or laptop, and an RS-232 port for use with a Crestron, AMX, or similar automation system. There's also a set of line-level stereo audio inputs, as well as a shared mini-jack stereo audio input for the two computer inputs.
I was a little disappointed to find that the ScreenPlay 110 doesn't have two sets of broadband component video inputs. If you want to have component DVD and HDTV coming into the projector and you don't have an HDTV set-top box or a DVD player with a DVI output, you'll have to use a separate component video switcher.
Still, it's a great value for the money.
How can you have a serious home cinema projector comparison without comparing the Sharp AE series projectors?
I own the Sharp AE-100 and Sharp AE-300 (no, I don't work for them or think that they are the best brand in everything, they just make awesome "cheap" widescreen projectors).
I had some minor problems with my AE-100 (red/green tint in the picture), but this was a known problem with the AE-100, and it is solved in the AE-200 and AE-300.
In my livingroom I have the AE-300 running, projecting a 110 inch screen. If you get the right signal to it (progressive NTSC or VGA), the projector is unbeatable by anything in the same pricerange (asuming you want a WideScreen projector).
I read A LOT of articles/reviews/forums before going for the sharp, and with the AE-300, I'm really happy! You'd be able to get the AE-300 for under $2000, and you can get the AE-100 for around $1000 (although you should be aware of the red/green tint in the picture on the AE-100).
What are your bulb costs? I looked at doing this a year or so ago, but ended up with a rear projection TV - the bulb costs just seemed too high.
...It's the cost of the freakin' bulbs that'll kill ya. 500 for 2000 hours? You'd better be watchin' some pretty top-drawer p0rn to make it worth your while.
Best PJ's by price ranged -home-t heater-projectors.htm
. php?fo rumid=9
:)
http://www.projectorcentral.com/recommende
Reviews of each PJ and other info
hhtp://www.projectorcentral.com
Great forum site
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay
I used to own a 42" Plasma (Panny EDTV 848x480 $4000). However, had I known how good projectors were nowadays, I would never would have bought it.
Currently I own a Sanyo PLV-70 ($3,500 1366x768) with a 105" Dalite HiPower screen ($350). And it's almost like a 105" plasma!
HDTV looks awesome. And DVD's look pretty good too. Finding Nemo is one of the best looking ones so far... But the hardware really needs Hi Definition material to shine. 480 just don't cut it at that size. Hollywood needs to get their butt in gear.
And with a DVI input, I've connected my computer and played Unreal2, MotoGP2, Vice City, etc. at 16:9 widescreen at 1360x768. Sick!
And you can do email, surf the web and everything with the 3D gyro mouse and keypad. Completely useable as a computer screen.
I can only hope Half Life 2 and Doom 3 properly support widescreen.
Or even better, do that, then invite six of the local needy kids around for Christmas dinner. With the proviso that after dinner they stand around your armchair, shouting 'Boom!', 'Bang!' and 'Woosh!' whenever a particularly loud explosion comes on screen - you won't even miss your surround sound speakers.
I'm not sure what the bulb costs are at the moment, but since I've bought my Sony CS5 last February, I've used only 10% of the bulb life.
It's nice watching DVD's and certain TV programmes on the "big screen" but I tend to use it only if a programme deserves it, hence the low 200hrs useage in the last 10 months.
The only downside I have with it is the amount of electricity it uses - about a days worth of normal useage in about 4 hours.
Saying that I did a rough calculation back in March and it worked out at 0.15 quid (UK) per hour for the bulb, and ~ 0.50 quid per hour in total.
Java gaming nut - http://www.retep.org/ or for the rail http://uktra.in/
While I don't have the X1 yet (still waiting for a few bonuses and such), I have put a good amount of research into it. The bulb is rated for 3,000 hours, and goes for $300. I estimated ~2 hours per day of viewing between myself and my SO, which puts me at just over 4 years between bulbs, a completely reasonable expense. Of course, your mileage may vary based on how much you watch, but do keep in mind that when the X1 first hit the streets, replacement bulbs were $500, so I don't see any reason why they wouldn't drop some in the next few years as well.
Let me just say I _LOVE_ this projector. It does native 16:9 1280x720 resolution and makes a great computer display in addition to being a great home theater projector. I have it projected on a homemade 100" diag screen! (7.1' wide, 4' tall) and it's very usable. Video games are unbelievable, web sites are HUGE, and WinAmp visualizations are absolutely breathtaking.
With ANY projector though- a light-controlled environment is KEY. Sunlight completely destroys the picture, so be sure you have a decent size room with no windows or are willing to cover the windows with something if you use it during the day.
The Sanyo Z2 / Panasonic AE-500 use the same LCD array, so either one would be an excellent choice for the /. crowd.
- P.M.
According to Projector Central (IMHO the best site for ind. projector reviews, the InFocus Screenplay 4800 is the basically the same model as the InFocus X1 (which can be had for $500 cheaper and can be bought online instead of an AV dealer). More details here.
the best system is oddly enough SVGA and not XGA or SXGA, if you main goal is to show DVD movies. The reason is simple. DVD movies only have a certain amount of information on the disk and that is almost exactly matched to the 800x600 projector size. XGA has to interpolate and even the expensive one do a crummy job creating jagged edges on fast moving sharp edges, and moving type.
the most important spec is contrast ratio followed by noise level followed by lumens.
finally almost all the low end ones are made by the SAME company, PLUS (thats the name) then rebranded as Sharp, mitsubishi, and many others.
On the other hand if you plan to give presentsations or watch HDtv then get an XGA since its better matched. But whatever you do dont buy more pixels than your source supports.
now as I said at the start a lot of people will now reply that I'm totally wrong. THese are people the dealers like to see coming into their stores. dont be one.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
$100 will not buy you a decent home theater system so I'm not sure why the choices are mutually exclulsive.
.....
But even if they were equal, buying the HTS contributes far more to society than the food bank donation. Why? Because $100 to a HTS company will mean jobs for marketeers, salespeople, technicians, engineers, researchers, local power company, etc. Not to mention a lot of fun for you, your family and friends. Give people a reason to work and they will aspire to be more than they are today.
Give them a handout, well thanks for the bandaid, but what they really need is a job to help make ends meet. If only there were a way to create jobs
Have you ever considered the fact that some folks might blow wads of cash on a home theater system AND give wads of money to the local food bank/homeless shelter/what-have-you? It's not an either/or thing, ya know.
Frankly, it really pisses me off when people assume that anyone who spends more than $X (where X is usually an amount just slightly out of reach of the person doing the assuming) on something frivoulous is somehow depriving hungry children of food by doing so. Besides, if we all quit buying our home theater gear, or our computers, or whatever, there'd be a lot more homeless kids when all the factories producing those things had to shut down from lack of demand.
Dear Lord, I sound like a fucking Republican now, somebody kill me please.
First let me state that I will never buy nor reccomend an InFOcus projector. Unless you are an "authorized" service rep, you cannot get replacment parts (sans lamps and normal "user replacable parts). I had one that someone shattred the lamp in and damaged the diffuser panel. Cost of replacment? ~$1000. Could only get it by ordering the full optics assembly. Basically, we found that you can only order via "assemblies" not individual parts.
If you want to be able to repair your own...don't bother with Infocus.
Most other companies are quite nice about supplying parts and manuals (at a price of course) I've delt most w/ Toshiba and Sharp and they've all provided exceptional customer/technical service to someone wishing to repair their own units.
Smaller projectors (such as the SONY VPL-PX11(?)) are wonderful LCD Projectors (image quality wise), but have a fairly low lamp life for a theater or confrence room type setup.
Recently we've begun using some DLP's from Plus Vision Corp (namely the U2-1200 line) which also seem to provide exceptional image quality and a fairly adequate lamp life (given their size). 1200 Lumens and about 3000hrs (4k hrs in Eco mode). Eco drops the brightness down a bit, however its still fairly acceptable in a dark room. Price is a bit higher for these, MSRP around $5k, but can be found closer to $3200 or so if you look. These support the standard 4:3 as well as a 16:9 aspect ratios, VGA, DVI, and Composite video inputs.
I would highly reccomend these at this point, and Plus/Lightware have both provided us with very acceptable warrenty service as well over the years.
In closing: Infocus is the devil!
Read the post. The X1 is a DLP projector. No LCDs involved. And for the price of your 36" CRT behemoth you'll be able to get diagonals measured in yards from a box the size of a few video cassettes, plus you'll be able to use it for PC gaming.
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
There's not that much technology in them. A bulb, a lens, the LCDs or the DLP, some mirrors, a fan or two. I would think they would cost much less than they do. What's keeping the price so high? Is it simply lack of demand? A television seems to have a lot more hardware than a projector so maybe it is demand that is driving the price.
http://tinyurl.com/3t236
Since I'm not experiencing any of the modern wonders of video projection, I thought I'd share some of the inherent strengths of projection viewing:
I wouldn't recommend it for watching network programming, but for someone only watches movies, it's the ideal setup.
I did a lot of research both at AVSForums and at a local dealer. I decided on the Infocus 5700. I also saw the Infocus 4800, but the faster color wheel (reduces rainbows), and higher resolution of the 5700 was definately worth the extra money in my book.
I would have really liked to get the 7200, but like all electronics the prices of projectors are falling fast. I decided that I could upgrade in a year or two and spend alot less in the long run.
All I know is that once you've seen a HD Football game on a 119" screen, you will never want to go back to a "normal" tv.
You have to love Infocus' marketing: You measure your tv size in inches? How cute.
See my Home Theater
Simple, go to Home Depot, get a can of glidden Misty Evening, and some Kilz 2 primer. Paint desired size/shape on wall. Point projector at newly painted space. Done. There are several threads at AVS right now, in the Screens forum, dealing with this very subject. Misty Evening is the easy, one coat choice right now. There are several variations that tweak it, but it doesn't get much easier than that. If painting isn't your thing, then just go buy a parkland plastics or doable board at HD for about $20, and hang it up.
They are missing a lot of important information in that article. It seems written to promote DLP and skims over a lot of deficiencies with what they tested, and uneven ways in which the testing was done.
Page 3, Contrast. What it doesn't mention is that above 800:1, it becomes hard to see any difference, and above 1200:1, it's pretty much impossible.
The examples are also set up to make you think that the 'low constrast LCD' is the Z1, which it isn't. Here's a quick snap taken of my Z1 (slight blur due to hand-held camera) of the same scene.
Page 4, Resolution. Again what's left out is at what point it no longer makes a difference. This varies projector by projector and is a factor of the screen size, LCD resolution and distance the viewer is sitting from the screen.
For SVGA/WVGA one can no longer see the grid at all if they are sitting about 1.8x the diagonal of their screen away. For XGA, WXGA that number drops to 1x (probably closer than you'd want to be).
I sit 1.5x screen diagonal away from my WVGA projector (Z1) and can see the grid in very bright-white scenes only. (Specifically, I sit 15' away from a screen with a 10' diagonal.)
Page 5, Fan Noise. Fan noise varies depending on whether you are using the projector's low-lamp/theatre mode. Most projectors give you an option of running at its highest brightness level, or a dark but quieter mode. Where the manufacturer doesn't list
I sit directly below my Z1 and can definitely hear the fan in 'low-lamp' mode, if there is no sound in the movie. I can also here my refrigerator humming in the kitchen if its quiet. If someone is speaking it covers up the sound of the projector (and the fridge). Any guests I have seem oblivious to the sound of the fan until I mention it.
It seems like they must have measured the Z1s lumens in 'low-lamp' mode, and its fan in regular mode (to make it measure as loud as possible). If a manufacturer only lists one fan noise level, it will be their 'low-lamp' mode volume.
Page 6,7, LCD & DLP. He fails to mention that some people cannot watch a DLP projector without getting a headache or becoming nauseous due to a 'strobing' effect. It only happens to small percentage of the population (maybe 2%), but it is a well documented phenomenon. The problem does not exist on high end DLP projectors as they use a slightly different projection technique, but it does exist on all low end DLPs.
This is an issue because if you are ordering your projector over the internet, sight unseen, you may get it home to find out you can't watch it. Likewise, you may have a bunch of friends over, only to find out one of them can't sit through the film/game/etc.
The article fails to mention that LCD has better color saturation.
For a fair and balanced look at the DLP vs. LCD debate, see this Projector Central article.
The conclusion fails to factor in other important cost information, like that over the course of 6 years of ownership, the Dell projector will cost significantly more because you will have to buy 2 bulbs for it, in the same period you will only buy 1 for the other two projectors.
It also never returns to the briefly mentioned benefits of natively Widescreen projectors over traditional 4x3 projectors. Unless you watch a lot of very old movies, you will want to own a widescreen projector. All movies today are widescreen, and in 5 years, so will your television.
There is a lot more wrong with the article, but this should at least give you an idea that you should not make this your single source of information about home projectors. Instead do some reading over at AVSForum. There are a lot of knowledgeable people there who can set you straight where this article would mislead you.
-Colin.
Oh really?
If it's a high-pressure lamp, wouldn't the risk be exploding?
A filled vacuum?
Not so obvious to those of use who understand device gamuts.
Despite these errors, I found the comparison useful, but I'm still confused as to their methods. In one place, the author says:
But a few screens later:
Perhaps for some measurements they used defaults and some they adjusted to match the reference image, but that's far from clear.
The guy at the site below made his out of a material called blackout cloth, and he has instructions on the site. Be gentle, it just ISP webspace.
http://members.shaw.ca/danhanson/Theater/screen/sc reenproject.htm
Karma: Can only be portioned out by the Cosmos.
I purchased a DLP project (an InFocus) about a year ago. While it's a GREAT projector for the cost, about $1200 for a 1500-lumen SVGA unit, I've found it's not very well suited for video.
The problem is that the update frequency on the DLP, combined with the color wheel technology, means that when you look from one area of the image to another, and the image contains any high-contrast vertical edges, you'll catch an afterimage of vertical red, green and blue bars on the margin of the edge. Essentially, your eye catches the sequential flashing of R, G and B used to form white or any bright color.
The problem is obvious even with still content - like a powerpoint slide presentation or a DVD menu - because even though the content isn't moving, the DLP still has to mix RGB to get white, and the mirrors and color wheel are rotating thru the colors constantly.
The problem gets more apparent the closer you get to the screen, because your eyes have to move farther to see various parts of the image - if the action suddenly changes from the left edge of the screen to the right edge, you look to follow the action. Up close, your peripheral vision is more tasked, so you tend to look back and forth a lot. When you're further from the screen you don't need to move your eyes as often.
So while it's great for slow content like a powerpoint slide show, and it's fine if you're a long way from the screen (like in a big presentation), when you try to use it as a video projector in a smallish living room setting, it's VERY distracting.
This may not be true for all DLPs. But the moral of the story is TRY IT before you buy it. Specifically, stand close to the screen, set up some still image with a vertical white line, or white-on-black text, and look back and forth across the screen. If you see color bars, you'll see them just the same in your dark living room watching a movie.
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Not sure why anyone spends the $$ on a big screen CRT/FPTV/RPTV anymore.
Easy, in addition to the ambient light requirements the X1 (along with most front projectors) doesn't do an HD picture. It will take an HD signal and downconvert it to it's 800x600 native resolution, but that's not the same. There are lots of RPTVs out there that will natively do full HD. If you're spending that amount of money on a picture that big, most people would want it to be HDTV capable.
Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
Did you miss the part where he said 90" diagonal? You might as well say that he's foolish for spending any more than $99 because you have a mini TV that cost that much.
I'm not trying to make this a Size Matters thing any more than it needs to be. But compare like to like - a 60" rear projection TV runs more like $4500, and is a bastard to get up and down stairs. A few years ago when I bought my LCD projector, Fry's (a local chain in Silicon Valley) was selling a 70" projection-screen TV for $8000.
BTW folks, bear in mind that if you have a home theater and NetFlix, you'll save a TON on things like movie tickets, candy/popcorn, gas, etc. My wife and I have been to the movies three times this year. How much do you spend on going out to the movies every year? (It doesn't have to be a super deluxe home theater, either, no matter what the freaks who spend $30,000 on home theater setups would have you believe.)