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IBM Releases Desktop Linux Presentation
An anonymous reader writes "DesktopLinux.com, in coordination with the Desktop Linux Consortium, is making select presentations from Monday's groundbreaking Desktop Linux conference at Boston University's Corporate Education Center available. Sessions from the well-received program included talks from key companies and open source projects bringing Desktop Linux into the enterprise. The first presentation available is from IBM's Sam Docknevich, Linux and Grid Services Executive for IBM Global Services and is titled "Open Source Desktop - Directions for today... and Tomorrow". His presentation discusses IBM's push into the Linux desktop market, an initiative from inside Big Blue."
It annoys me that Linux developers try to compete with commercial companies. Listen: you are destroying bussiness! Sun will probably be the first casualty. With no commercial companies left, there will be no innovation. I propose the following "constitution" for open source developers:
1) I will freely license my code for use in commercial products (ie, use BSD license not GPL.)
2) If a commercial equivalent exists for what I'm developing, I will not try to market it as a replacement for the commercial product.
3) My software will not be targeted at the average consumer (read: no easy to use UI, no easy installation process).
So basically, you can develop research software, specialized software, etc. But please, if no-one buys MS Office and d/ls openoffice instead, innovation in word processors and spreadsheets will stop. We do not want this.
I really liked this picture. (Bill Gates getting bitten by a penguin.)
Peace and love, y'all
What a nice image, just a shame Tux didn't try biting off his 'third' leg.
Sun has the Java Desktop System, which will be both Linux and Solaris. How come they aren't there?
Fortress of Insanity
Blogzine
Updated Nov. 14, 2003, 7:30am PDT -- The Desktop Linux Consortium (DLC) is holding its first conference this week, hosted at Boston University's Corporate Training Center (BUTrain) located just outside of Boston, Mass. The Desktop Linux Conference marks the group's first event that brings together industry leaders to share their insights and discuss the trends, technologies, and solutions that are driving the next generation of desktops based on Linux.
"Linux on the desktop is a real, practical solution that is being deployed by real people in greater numbers every day," commented Bruce Perens, executive director of the Desktop Linux Consortium. "The conference will bring experienced users together with the leading developers of desktop Linux software to provide an invaluable learning environment for anyone considering a deployment of the Linux desktop."
According to the DLC, the full day event comprises a series of talks, exhibits, and demonstrations of Linux on the desktop. Sponsoring organizations include key Desktop Linux vendors as well as prominent open-source leaders.
This "special report" is designed to help you keep greased yoda dolls shoved up your anus during this landmark event.
Linux Desktops are commercially available (e.g. Ximian) is written on one of these slides. I feel so abused for my volunteer work on GNOME.
What's to prevent IBM from releasing an all in one Linux desktop solution? Linux + IBM Power PC + a IBM reference desktop motherboard? Something with AGP, built in sound, USB 2.0 and firewire.
Why woudn't IBM want to do this. Could mass adoption of these chips drive their prices down and make them competetive with INtel and AMD chips?
Would that make sense? If not, why so?
-
I like how instant messaging is disabled for every type of desktop... why bother including it on the graph then?
1) You can't buy a IBM Thinkpad unless it comes with Windows. That 'old "Microsoft tax"
2) IBM can't be bothered to support FreeBSD on their laptops. Public case in point - the use of Type 165 for the partition that held the backup info. Private case - IBM staffer claimed they'd help with a USB implementation issue on one type of Thinkpad. (The USB doesn't work at all with FreeBSD and the only way Linux works is if you force the probe order in some wonky way.)
3) Many of the new style Thinkpads come with the Intel wireless - the one only supported under Windows.
I'll believe IBM cares about Open Source when they address the 3 above. Otherwise its the swapping of one corporate master for another.
1. Fix X to be fast, non-bloated.
2. Fix KDE to be fast, non-bloated.
3. Fix Gnome to be fast, non-bloated.
4. Fix Mozilla to be fast, non-bloated.
5. Fix OpenOffice^W^W Write a new Office Suite.
Not trolling: Go install Fedora and see how it runs on a three year old machine. There's quite a lot of work to do.
Also:
6. Standardize on one version of Solitaire.
Looks like linux has more heads on the desktop than Apple. Time for hardware companies to take linux seriously, seriously,
The next time some hardware company excuses the missing printer driver with linux small userbase point at this new info.
I assume most businesses arent aware of this and many of them probably only needs a pointer to some stats.
HTTP/1.1 400
... from a Linux desktop is bundling by a major distributor. People use apps. Apps are available for Linux. Worst case (possibly apart from games) you can use crossover or wine...
Simon.
(Who's been using Linux on the desktop for the last 3 years...)
Physicists get Hadrons!
What I would like to know is if MONO is going to be part of the picture?
If you think things are bad with SCO, wait till we start to hurt Microsoft's revenue stream, then all hell will break loose. With that much at stake, things are bound to get violent.
1. IBM has over 15,000 existing internal Linux clients and this is rapidly expanding.
2. There is no attempt to gloss over potential issues, such as browser incompatibility with IE and weaknesses so far in supporting knowledge workers. These are accepted, but demonstrated to be applicable only to certain categories of users.
The general message, which is convincing, is to look at each user segment separately and objectively and use Linux where it makes sense at the time.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I'm thinking the point is more. "If your going to have to do all that retraining anyway, why not do it with us.
Jesus saves, everyone else takes full damage from the fireball.
IBM's presentation says that Linux is ready for kiosks, single-application PCs (like in call centers), and technical (CAD) workstations. Note that none of those scenarios involve Thinkpads.
"With that much at stake, things are bound to get violent."
Does that mean that Microsoft is going to put out a hit on Torvalds?
Hmmm... If I only hadn't seen this here a couple of weeks ago, I might be more interested...
the path to the desktop is through the enterprise. sure, there are HUGE differences in needs, but, this is where windows started. wince it was used at the office, you needed it at home. now, with open source desktops, it is even better. sure, for many users, linux can do most things, but where it fails, i.e. video editing, plugging in a usb camera, etc. is crucial for the home users. but it does suffice for many though. now, go back to the office. linux is perfect. far better security, far easier maintanance, lower costs, etc. so, joe user needs to work on something at home, the boss says, here's a cd, install this on your computer. then linux makes headway into the home. and as that happens, drivers will be written, and maybe the bundled software will be written in cross-platform toolkits (QT, gtk, etc.) rather than win32/.NET. the tipping point my guess is somewhere around 5%.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I think they completely missed the point in Opensource .. they don't even have a linux port of their Smartsuite office application.
If they were real about Linux on the Desktop they would opensource Lotus Smartsuite.
Bingo! That's what a lot of the cross-overs want. And the free part certainly has appeal, especially for the core demographic that likes "other" things free.
Just look at slide 6.
"Reducing IT cost is a fact of life. If Linux and Open Source can do for the desktop what it has done for the server, than show us how and where."
This whole presentation was obviously faked by Cmdr Taco as part of his ongoing campaign to convince the world that the words "then" and "than" are interchangeable. Are we really expected to believe that IBM make mistakes like that?
The truth is, you can't stop Linux. Nothing can. Not SCO, not Microsoft, not anyone. They can try, they will fail.
But how is that an incentive to switch your entire workstation line to a different operating system?
Linux is almost there. Almost. Right now, people are content in their Microsoft World (TM).
There isn't that ONE thing that makes people go oooOOOh.
I have to say that until recently, there was one thing MSIE had that nobody else did: WYSIWYG editing.
As a developer of web software, I'm glad I can finally support all platforms including Linux (and Mac) with the new Mozilla.
Sunny
Be my Friend
I think the major failiure with OpenSource (I'm saying open source because theres more than just gnu/Linux) on the Desktop is Gnome. In fact, Gnome 2.4 was awful. Gnome 2.2 was better though, and I'm glad that Sun and Ximian are sticking with that tree for now.
Anyway, now that the LG fiasco was solved, I downloaded the Mandrake 9.2 ISOs. Such a relief from Debian with Gnome 2.4. All my hardware 'just works', no typing commandlines and Lots of sources that are easier to set up.
I never want to touch Gnome again until they dump gconf-editor for a real configuration editor, similar to KDE control centre or TweakUI, fix the file dialog, and replace that FOOT with something tasteful. According to Section 9 of the HIG, the Gnome logo is a violation of the HIG, since no body parts are allowed in ICONS.
So, if you want to see what a Linux desktop SHOULD be like, try Mandrake 9.2, and don't forget that KDE 3.2 is around the corner, I tried the Alpha and its FAST!
The Good News: Ubiquitous open source computing is inevitable. The faster we get the momentum, the sooner we reap the benefits.
:(
The Bad News: IBM couldn't sell the cure for *death.
*They tried. (Check their patents...)
Sun have had a number of StarOffice customer wins for over 10,000 seats, and a few for the Linux desktop bundle it seems (reading around a bunch of press articles). However, most of this is outside the US - see this article:
Here's another quote from him, from this article:
TrollTech is also vulnerable to takeover by companies hostile to Free software
So what? If Troll Tech or its successor discontinues Qt Free Edition, the last published version remains QPL/GPL licensed. In fact, there is an agreement in place that makes it BSD licensed under these specific conditions.
Will I retire or break 10K?
BS. Netscape has had composer for years. Dreamweaver it isn't but it was there, and it was WYSIWYG.
There _does_ exist a native Linux port of the Lotus Notes client. It is used internally in IBM. I believe it's a port rebuilt with Wine. I've talked to IBM'rs who use it as their regular daily use Notes app - and you haven't seen Notes usage if you haven't seen what happens in IBM. Apparently there are still internal wrangles on whether or not to make it a supported external platform .. I think it's just a matter of time.
(FWIW, I don't like Bloatus Notes too much :-)
"1. the number of buyers for thinkpads with linux is tiny. IBM has in fact shipped some models with linux pre-installed but as a general move, linux on laptops is still pretty chancy, why should they put all that effort into somthing that obviously will generate no return."
By your logic. IBM shouldn't have taken a chance on Linux. After all, at the time Linux was small. And why should they put all that effort into somthing that obviously will generate no return.
Why not kde?
/gnu/celeron gnu/packard gnu/bell gnu/box.
Gnome translate-o-matic
Ever since Gnome 2.4 was released, I have found more and more gnome zealots who MUST absolutely advocate GNOME at every possible moment. Here is a guide to some of their claims, and what they really mean.
Unlike KDE, Gnome is free
Translation : GPL is freerer than LGPL. LGPL allows corporations like Novell and Sun to have propeitry forks and lock away their changes from the user. Now that Novell has taken over Ximian you can expect Gnome to get put under corpirate lock. With KDE you have the choice, you either PAY UP or pay with your source code.
Nautilus is much better than konqueror.
Wrong, if your using nautilus for anything more than a simple finder clone you can forget it. No split screen, no ioslaves and forget about being able to have a decent file dialog, not to forget that it is as unstable as hell and is STILL slow on >3 Ghz machines.
Gnome is easier to use
Yep, nothing like using gconf-editor to edit all except the most trivial of settings. Want tear off menus? Want a useable file dialog? You won't find it here.
Gnome has eye candy
Yes, my pirated Win32 fonts with the patent infringing font renderer. Bit stream vera sans looks like Tahoma put through a shreadder! Of course I still reboot into windows to print using "Comic Sans MS.
Gnome has a new web browser
Yawb! Along with Galeon, mozilla, thunderbird, konqueror, atlantis, lynx, netscape and w3m. Yes I need another browser! Not to mention that its got a religiously offensive name and it dosen't allow bookmark folders. It also crashes like a crazy! Apple chose khtml for a REASON! its stable and light!
For newbies, Gnome is the ideal choice
Despite the fact that the only mainstream Gnome based distro has been EOL'd, and all the newbie distros such as Mangadrake, Lindoze, $u$E, Lycoris, Xandroze, Gentoo use kde default, the Local unix geek showed me Debian, which installed Gnome 1.4 by default, so it must be good if he uses it.
You KDE guys must be sick of the K
Our G's and monkeys are SO MUCH better, gedit, glib, gconf, bobono, ghex, gless, same-gnome.
Gnome is themeable
Yep, choose from High, low and medium contrast, default, and clean ice. Wan't to change the colour scheme? USE GCONF NOOB, plus if you complain about it we will tell you to fuck off and go back to Windows or KDE.
Gnome has multimedia framework
Its a kludge of esd combined with broken xine libraries. No wonder it crashes all the time and dosen't work on 95% of video files
My Gnome work station
My 1.1Ghz Packard Bell box my mum bought for me from PC world, that is made of made to break components, but it has a GEFORCE RADEON 9000 card, so it must be good.On the other hand, no-one (well, nearly no-one) is suggesting that GTK+ is a replacement for Qt...
Gnome allows mac like operation.
x86 compatible 1 button mice are almost impossible to find, and it dosen't copy the whole macbar concept. Not to even mention their auto apply implementation is broken and dangerous! Plus if they did actually come anywhere close to copying the Mac the C&D letters would come flying up their asses.
Gnome is GNU software.
gnu/Yay, gnu/gnome gnu/for gnu/my gnu/debian gnu/linux gnu/500mhz
Inspired by the gentoo translate-o-matic.
step1: Assesments!
step2: Consulting!
step3: Open up your wallet! We'll be here a while! (a.k.a Profit!)
They actually told us the what the mythical step2 is. Thank you IBM you showed us the path to Linux profits... hey wait a sec, wasn't consulting what the OSS community already makes their profit on? Weird they were right all this time.
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
Linux is still not ready for the desktop. Before people pull out their torches, flamethrowers and other impliments of death seeking my head, lets have a look at why.
1) X - This was a neat idea, and has had a lot of time and innovation put in to it. However, it's still ununified, clumsy, confusing and bulky. When X works, it works great. When X doesn't work, it's a nightmare.
2) Lack of standardization. Simple things which should work and operate the same over many applications sometimes do not. Such is the case with cut & paste, which beyond not being 100% universal, is a really lousy implimentation. If you're like me, and you highlight the text you want to replace with what is in the clipboard, you'll know what I'm talking about.
3) Very basic things which should be autodetected and configured by XWindows are simply not. How long have scrollwheel mice been around? How about mice with more than three buttons?
4) Lack of proper native support for popular applications. Ok, so perhaps this is not linux's fault, or Xs for that matter. However, wine and crossover office are poor substitutes to running windows applications under windows. While it is good that linux software has sprung up to try to fill the void, much of this software is nowhere near as good as their windows counterparts. See: MS Office vs Openoffice or Gimp vs Photoshop. Before Linux is viable, big names need to port applications over to run nativly. Otherwise, you may as well just run windows.
5) Regardless of the advances made with the Linux desktop, it is still not user friendly. More to the point, it's confusing. Having a lot of choices can be a good thing, and a bad thing. For us gearheads, it's great. But for the average user, it's a tedious hassle that takes too long. I can set a windows box up from start to finish in about an hour. Linux almost always takes the entire day.
6) Package management in linux sucks. Installing something in windows is almost always hassle free, and fast. Installing something in Linux is sometimes hassle free. Library conflicts, bad software and things that just don't compile for whatever reason really hurt linux as it increases the complexity of the whole process.
In short, Linux is not really a good desktop operating system. It lacks standardization and most popular modern applications are not available for it.
Lastly, how is a conference on Desktop Linux solutions groundbreaking? I'm sure many have been held before.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
if not for justice to the guy who posted the joke, because lots of totally abnormal and humour-impaired people are answering it seriously!
Some people really lack part of the brain!
That linux isnt for the desktop... Who should i belive.. big red,or big blue...
( as i sit here submitting from Konq running on FBSD 4.9 )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
My big point is with IBM, they still can't even port Lotus Notes to linux.
IBM didn't have to. The WINE team did.
Will I retire or break 10K?
http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/article003/sld01 3.html
Once people switch from the mindset that there are things in the red circle to the red circle is shrinking and only will get smaller over time is a key to understanding the impending disaster Linux has turned out to be for Microsoft.
A better version of the slide would be to show the red circle shrinking over time down to nothing.
I'm not sure what disadvantages exist for "knowledge workers" but I'm sure of the advantages. The stable platform and advanced window managers alone make place keeping and work organization much easier on free platforms. Not having to reorganize yourself every other day because your machine bluescreens is a big deal. I've never been at a loss for email clients, IM, browsers or file managers with free software. KDE's organizer and other office programs close the gap for people who think they need Outlook. Reasonable file formats such as pdf, text, html and images do a better job at what they are supposed to than hideous M$ formats and can be shared with everyone. When you consider that free software has first been adopted at Universities, you come to the realization that GNU was built for knowledge workers in the first place, general and flexible though it may be. What exactly are knowledge workers missing in free software? The slide was vauge, but you seem to have an idea.
The browser incompatibiltity is all on the Microsoft end. It's interesting how they try to spin that as some kind of an advantage. People see it for what it is.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Have you tried OpenOffice 1.1? Its definately a positive progression, and the startup time no longer annoys me like in 1.0 (This machine is an AMD 1.6 XP +, so nearly 3 years).
I think your lumping too much blame on X, try it with a lighter WM like Xfce, Blackbox, Fluxbox ect and your desktop is there just as you see X start.. It surprised me a lot.
For browsers, Firebird is quite nippy but of course cannot compare to Windows explorer which is already running in the first place in startup times. The Gnome and KDE native browsers are also very nippy too. Dillo is nice, but basic.
puts ("Python r0cks\n");
comparing installing mozilla on linux and windows.
One could be done by a bird trained to peck at pictures, the other requires hours of reading. Then trying, failing, and trying again another way with little if any indication as tho why it crapped out the first time.
You guys talk a lot of shit about windows, but clearly you've never tried using it.
Try to breathe inside a brown paper bag for a while until you calm down, ok?
Just a hint: use Gnome. Make it thrive, contribute with bug reports, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and KDE really flops. Then I will thank you and adopt Gnome.
Or, maybe you're in for some surprises, and KDE thrives while Gnome keeps, erm, getting better. Then you still can change to KDE, if you want.
Regarding Trolltech, I personally find them cool, despite their partners. But then again, SCO was totally different 2 years ago...
But keep bugging the KDE guys, it may work. A KDE based on FLTK wouldn't be bad at all. In fact, this change could be good for both projects, KDE and FLTK.
Bye. And keep cool.
Call me dumb, but that wasn't even close to straightforward.
If you're from Microsoft, let's say it's not necessary to take this any longer, marketing lingo just annoys me.
If not, dude, try to cook up a better -- and clearer -- explanation for the next time.
Thanks.
drop one update every 11 months and you can retard KDE for years.
In that case, watch KDE developers fork Qt.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Why so?
You made a great job, Gnome is improving on a daily basis. Now tell me, please, how do you figure your work will land in the hands of the users? By magic?
No, you need a distributor. Someone is willing to do this job, and it is paid by the users, by advertisers, or by companies like IBM or Novell.
You also need other marketing services, and some corporate advice and Q&A and some treats like filesystems (JFS, XFS, etc.)
In fact, I find beautiful that some corporations really understand the role of innovative individuals. And guess what? It has always been this way.
You're lucky. Someone understood Gnome is cool and wanted to sell it. That does not happen always (e.g., the Xerox process was offered to some dumb company which discarded it, thinking it would not be worth selling).
I bought a Thinkpad for a relative in China, who wanted a Thinkpad because of IBM's reputation. (I had to agree with her; I've never had any problem with them hardware-wise, unlike many other laptops.) I tried to get one without Windows, not because she's a Linux user but because she would naturally prefer a Chinese-language version of Windows and the sellers in the US only sell English-language editions.
The IBM ordering website had a bewildering list of models, all of which were very specific as to CPU speed and other features. (For example, two machines with different CPU speeds but identical in every other respect.) There were about 20-30 models with minor differences between them. It was a lot like the way cars were sold before standard options packages. So much for the excuse that vendors don't want to sell preconfigured Linux systems because they only want a few models to simplify manufacturing and inventory. simple.
I called IBM's ordering department and asked if I could get one with Linux pre-installed. The saleswoman said no. I asked why they have so many models with trivial differences between them but they offer no choice of OS.
"Oh, but we do have choice. You can have Windows 2000 or Windows XP." ("We have both kinds [of music]: Country and Western" -- The Blues Brothers.) And no, I couldn't get a Chinese version either.
Next I asked if I could get one without an OS. "No." "Why not?" "Because Microsoft won't let us."
Now, to be fair, her info could've been out of date. Maybe she couldn't thing of anything else to say, Or maybe that's what they told her to say. But if she's telling the truth, wasn't the anti-trust settlement supposed to put an end to this?
The end result was that M$ gets paid for 2 copies of Windows on one computer. (Well, my relative was paying for it, so that's her choice. I would've gone to a Linux laptop vendor, though I don't know if any of them are as reliable.)
It does not matter the cost of Apple. It matters as a reference design, which could drive the same economic boom in the IT industry the original PC did -- including the same cheap software ingredient (then DOS, now Linux).
Imagine an avalanche of Linux-compatible mobos with PowerPC processors at an affordable price?
It could even boost Apple Mac OS X' sales!
IBM consulting may cost more than "Big Bob's Consult-o-Rama" down the street, but you get what you pay for.
Like what? Is making money what you refer to is "evil" ?
"So, yes, some older business models will fail, but others will replace them. I won't cry anoy more for Sun that I would for the monks who lost their jobs creating illuminated manuscripts ."
But they were beautiful manuscripts. Condemn them all you want, but despite our vaunted "business model". You only see quality like that on the high-end.
And the highly paid proprietary developers can fix bloat? Heh. It'll take OSS developers years to catch up with the delicate art of bloatware.
He didn't talk about Windows XP. Why can't you just address the issues he presented on open source software alone, without dragging Windows into the picture?
Comparisons of that nature should be addressed for the value of eliminated disinformation & mainstream generated FUD. The response that XP will not fly on a three year old workhorse merely brings to light how moot the anti-linux argument is.
However, one of the main selling points of Linux (imo) is the ability to run on older hardare. This of course, is entirely out of the reach of current Windows crops. Regardless of how far you scale back a current Windows install (or in fairness, a current OS X install), it'll still require a relatively current computer. I can, on the other hand, customize a current Linux release to install on ancient hardware... and there are always older releases freely available if I choose to go that route. And, last I checked, neither Microsoft or Apple provide that kind of backwards hardware support.
awww.. you poor thing. You had to bring Windows into the picture just to keep him away from your beloved GNU/Linux didn't you? Awww.. come let Uncle AC stroke Ice_Balrog's head.. poor Balrog.
So, let's see... instead of actually adding anything of merit to the discussion you just sling FUD. And, oh my, your weak FUD attempt winds up with a score of 0. Awww... poor little anonymous coward, come let Uncle Rage plant his foot up yer ass.
Yeah, I know... feed a troll and he'll just follow you home. But I've got a really big dog that needa a new chew toy!
------
#SickNotWeak
Or something to that effect.
A set of rules which make Gnome's UI more coherent and sensible. Developed with support from Sun, IIRC. Something KDE should adopt, IMHO.
Better yet, something Freedesktop should adopt, if they haven't already done so.
In arab countries, I've read, display of the sole is considered offensive. So we should change it, I think.
Because it's useful for putting into context the issue of speed on old hardware. If you bash Linux because it's too slow, show us a non-Linux system that runs faster on the same platform. Actually, you can install stripped-down versions of Linux without all the bloat (remember that RH != Linux) but RH is aiming for the common case.
(Perhaps installers should measure some hardware parameters like clock speed and make suggestions based on what it finds, e.g., "your CPU is under A MHz and you have less than B MB of memory, so application C will probably be slow -- do you want to install this?" There are some general recommendations like how much memory X needs, but that's it.)
BTW, I'm typing this on a 400 MHz machine (bought in 1999) running Debian/Woody. While I expect things like opening large files to be inherently slow under any OS, the KDE desktop is reasonably fast. My wife has Windows 98 (not XP, but 98, which came out a year before this machine) on another partition for the occasional app that requires it, and boy, is it S-L-O-W. Just bringing up the START menu takes about 3 seconds (vs. less than a quarter second for the K menu in KDE.) Booting into 98 is a good way to remind us why we use Linux.
The Windows version runs fine; why write a native one?
...become Apple?
Just what the industry needs - another platform with limited marketshare [potential].
What we're seeing is SUN go down for exactly that, and why Novell is moving to incorporate Linux more and more.
I guess there is a typo in slide number 6...
--- files/article003/sld006.html 2003-11-15 23:43:24.000
+++ files/article003/sld006.html 2003-11-15 23:43:24.000
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
- Reducing IT cost is a fact of life. If Linux and Open Source can do for the desktop what it has done for the server, than show us how and where."
+ Reducing IT cost is a fact of life. If Linux and Open Source can do for the desktop what it has done for the server, then show us how and where.
-- Open Source editing?
Well, IBM was one of the early pioneers in popularising FUD campaigns. That
could be construed as evil. Okay, so that's a few years in the past now.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
for now, I dont see linux converting the common power user, who wants photoshop, macromedia flash, flashy lights, easy game creation utilities, games and more games, and various other frills. microsoft will have those people for a while longer.
another BIG need is the push for scanner compatibility, SANE doesnt cut it, at all. sane is more of a hassle than it's worth. someone needs to come up with a better, more kernel integrated scanner system, so all you need to do is install a kernel module when you want to add a new scanner driver and voila! it works.
with sane.. you sometimes need a kernel module, and the sane module... which can be troublesome.. and not to mention the whole interface is buggy at times, very few people I know actually have working scanners on linux, this needs to be changed.
http://saveie6.com/
So where's the port of Smartsuite? The port of Notes? There used to be Notes 4.6 clients for Solaris and AIX, so what's the deal?
Patents.
:).
And lots of them. IBM holds a whole load of patents on pretty much anything even vaguely software related (MS and SCO both know about that
The GPL places quite stringent rules on distributing patented software -- if IBM is going to distribute Linux, they must license those patents for everyone's use. Which, given that patents are the tactical nuclear arms of the software litigation industry, is not likely to please the higher-ups at Big Blue.
Hence, IBM contracts out the OS supply to other companies like RedHat/SuSE/etc for their hardware, while tacitly ignoring the patent situation. So this means that IBM can't really put together a Linux distribution themselves, as cool as that would be (they would probably be the one player in the industry able to create and enforce desktop linux standards, hopefully with the input of the freedesktop.org folks too).
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
I'm definately not a member of Apple's Ra-Ra team; hell, the only thing that kept me from throwing my Lombard away was YDL 2.3. I know alot of people complain about RH based distro's, and you'll have to do some code tweaking and compiling if you want bleeding edge builds -- but for a works out of the box notebook Linux install, you can't beat it. (And yea, I mean working out of the box... battery support, the little screen dimmer and volume adjustment function buttons, USB support, all of it).
Of course, that's only helpful if you've got a PowerBook... definately not a reason to go and buy one if you've already got an x86 laptop.
----
#SickNotWeak
yeah, cause I hate having to read a lot of docs to figure out how to use something...
guess i'll just have to wonder what windows is all about....
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
The Windows version runs fine; why write a native one?
If major proprietary app vendors make WINE a supported platform for which their apps are QA'd and tech-supported on an equal basis with Microsoft Windows, then Win32 will be just another framework for Linux apps (others being Gtk+, Qt, and whatever those lighter weight WMs run), and the free software community will have broken the applications barrier to entry that Judge Jackson mentioned. How exactly did OS/2's Windows application compatibility lead to its demise?
Will I retire or break 10K?
For those of you on the west coast you can check out some great Linux talks at SCALE 2x next week. IBM, Novell and all the other big names will be there too. Talks include Andrew Morton, Chris Dibona, Seth Nickell (freedesktop.org / gnome.org) and more... John Terpstra will aslo being speaking as well as doing a book signing of his SAMBA 3 book.
To get a free pass to the expo hall use the code "free" Full passes can be had with "scalert"
I think IBM USA should talk to its Australian Branch Linux on the desktop? Not Down Under, says IBM SMH
I had a pet once
IBM 's contribution to linux and Java is greatly appreciated.
But where's the native linux Lotus Notes client???
"PowerPC really offers no tangible advantage for the average desktop system over x86's descendants."
Well, they consume less electricity for a given level of functionality. Since most companies are interested in saving money (ie: not donating it to the local municiple power company) a PPC-based system could very well offer a desirable benefit.
They way most companies' budgets work, however, long term savings are less important than short term savings, even when the long term savings is larger than the short term savings.
Have you ever installed mozilla? It doesn't get much simpler, granted, mozilla is a very polished project. But mozilla on Linux is just as easy as any install on Windows, tuff to compare wehen IE comes pre installed.
Spencer Ogden
We live in interesting times as far as the Linux desktop is concerned. We saw two great desktops emerge for Linux: GNOME and KDE. We are also witness to a paradigm shift in the approach to development under Linux, brought about by the different needs and demands of the desktop environment. The server space has its own, well rooted developers. Most of them cannot switch to developing under a desktop environment successfully unless they too notice the paradigm shift.
If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
Buyer: Can I buy a laptop without Windows
IBM.au NO, we are OEM'ed - ALL laptops come with Windows, even refurbished ones, except India.
So there you are - IBM.au pays $MS tax. ACCC - are you listening?
The IBM and Novell connection just seem stronger now with slide 17.
Britain != Europe. Fag.
No one hears about this product suit nowadays anymore.. so, why not open source it?
I am sure it is quite stale by now, but there might be a few gems there which an open source project can rescue
Agreed that the whole concept of an "office suite" could take a fresh look. But given that this is one of the principle applications for most people, what is wrong with OpenOffice? Honestly, I use it every day, heavily, and I can't understand what people could complain about. It is a little slow but that's hardly a serious issue these days.
OpenOffice is stable, creates compact and portable documents, produces beautiful PDFs, does not have any bugs that I can find (admittedly I don't spend my time importing bizarro Excel spreadsheets), and is really the reason why our business was able to face a move to Linux desktops a year or two ago, a move that we've not regretted at all.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
1. the number of buyers for thinkpads with linux is tiny. IBM has in fact shipped some models with linux pre-installed but as a general move, linux on laptops is still pretty chancy, why should they put all that effort into somthing that obviously will generate no return.
... we almost certainly are ... but it is important to realize that, despite offering a particular model with Linux preinstalled, IBM's own marketing statistics significantly understate the number of hardware purchases made with the intention of running Linux and not Windows.
That number however is quite deceptive. I work in a Linux shop, and we run GNU/Linux on virtually every machine we own, including our IBM laptops.
However, Linux only shipped on a few low to medium end models, and of course we wanted the best model available at the time. Furthermore, those models which came with Linux preinstalled did not have my company's distribution of choice installed (Gentoo isn't exactly a likely choice for commercial vendors just yet), so there really wasn't an advantage to buying Linux preinstalled.
Net result: we've bought half a dozen or more IBM laptops solely for GNU/Linux use, each and every one of them with Windows preinstalled. Despite the fact that Windows was removed forthwith and Gentoo GNU/Linux installed in its place (and in use ever since), the purchase shows up in IBM's sales statistic as a Windows laptop.
Linux users tend to be power users. It is very unlikely that a significant proportion of them bought low-to-medium end machines with Red Hat preinstalled when they could buy nicer machines and install their own distro anyway.
This isn't to say Linux users aren't a minority group of purchasers of IBM laptops
BSD, while an even smaller market segment, is almost certainly similiarly understated in their data.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Without MS driving innovation we wouldn't have the social benefits of communication, enabling diverse peoples to share views and understand each other, building an unified world.
Okay, ximian have done an awesome job at making the desktop interface inuative and appealing.
That said, its a luxury not a right.
one that I am glad to own a copy of.
Honestly I believe that this desktop mod wouldnt have been made if Jimmac wasnt able to work fulltime while creating the thousands of icons
(unfortunate, but people need to eat )
At least we have an implimentation of a nice usable workspace to learn from and consider as we develop towards a gpl'd free desktop in our free time.
Nah, the average not-so-big hardware company won't worry about the marginal market of the non-monopoly system until it reaches 10-20%. We saw this in the Apple market where hardware manufacturers ignored the Mac even when it's market share was over 10%.
We need to provide abstractions to the operating system in the form of more libraries which applications then build on top of. Application writers should not be converned with device names etc as there should be a high level cross platform library that all apps use to access devices (fing out when a USB device is plugged in etc). This high level abstraction will make the apps more portable consistent and powerful.
comparing installing mozilla on linux and windows.
One could be done by a bird trained to peck at pictures, the other requires hours of reading. Then trying, failing, and trying again another way with little if any indication as tho why it crapped out the first time.
Ok, installing Mozilla on linux is one command (apt-get install mozilla, emerge mozilla, up2date mozilla, urpmi mozilla, etc). Sorry if I got any of those commands wrong, but you get the point.
Installing on Windows, you have to go the web page, find the link for downloading, click on link and download to a directory, execute the exe, click through a few windows, and then you've finally got it installed.
Ok, so in Windows its a little bit longer, but I wouldn't say that it "requires hours of reading." Installing software on Windows can be tedious, and sometimes its not entirely straightforward (nor is there a standard process, each software is different), but its really not that bad, and most people can figure it out.
#!/
Quoting from IBM ad. Title says it all, dont it? IBM is hypocritical, dont care about Linux or open source at all. Its just a way to move more product and more consulting work. Or, they'd open source their own software, huh?
The web copy of the presentation looks like Powerpoint exported to HTML... Anybody see the original talk and able to comment on what OS the presenter had?
Just select the text, type Ctrl+X, go to the other program, and type Ctrl+V. Hmm, how do you do it in Windows?
Oh! It doesn't work in Emacs. Well, I just tried it in Emacs on Windows and oh, my god, it doesn't work there either! Hey, there are literally thousands and thousands of Windows programs where cut & paste does not work. Mostly because they were designed before the current standards came out. Somehow this is not a problem on Windows, but is considered a problem with Linux.
Cut and paste wroks.
Some of your other points are good, but this endless "cut and paste does not work" is getting really annoying and leading me to believe that the people typing these in are working off a script.
PS: my wheel mouse works just fine.
They are required to say that to get the OEM discount on Windows.
"Taking on" the entire desktop front is too much, impractical and ill-advised. Carving out one piece of it is more practical.
As a Joe-couple-cans-short-of-a-six-pack, typical, average Luser, I think Linux is faster, more secure and less pop-up obnoxious for personal internet usage
than the MS environment.
So, I say start with a solid, simple hand-holding way of getting a dual booting system installed. Strip down and design the distro around home internet useage creating
a 'internet side/space'. Have desktops already named, email, web, UseNet, firewall,
System Monitors.. whatever.
Forget non-internet applications, cameras, GFX, video, scanners... all that other stuff. These things can be done on the other side let's call it the 'work side' (or if you prefer 'dark side'). Of course the kernel must bootup with ntfs read and fat r/w capabiities.
The restrictive compatability issues with the MSfs would therefore become an asset. For the sake of security you don't want to be able to write to the work side only read from it as long as all your data files will be accessible to your internet apps while at the same time being kept safe. Also, the information from your internet side would
be accessible only via a separate 'holding tank' (partition) that would be read/write (FAT) accessible to both sides. This holding tank would be under very heavy and very focused virus scrutiny from both sides.
The fact that there are two different operating systems at work here is a strong point in terms of security.
How to get Linux on desktops? Linux = Internet.
You have access to IBM's data?
... none of whome show up in IBM's sales statistics.
I have access to my own employer's purchasing data. I can easily browse the GNU/Linux fora and get a good notion of how many IBM laptop users have post-installed Linux. The number is certainly not negligable, despite the fact that Microsoft proponents would have it be otherwise.
Sorry, I think IBM probably has a pretty good feel for how many machines get linux post-install. After all they take all the hardware tech-support calls.
Be as sorry as you like. That does not alter the fact that you offer absolutely no evidence to back up your assertion, beyond an appeal to authority ("The Great IBM[tm] magically knows more than lowly you, even if there is clear evidence they do not include the most common Linux deployment methodology in their sales statistic."), whereas I possess real word evidence of real world deployments that are clearly missing from their data, as a direct result of a non-negligable systemic flaw in how that data is gathered and correlated (IBM does not have any mechanism whatsoever for tracking the number of Linux post-installs on Windows laptops they have sold).
Hardware tech support is unrevealing in these cases. Many systems dual boot (in order to keep IBM utilities around for just such situations), and in other cases (such as our own), the original hard drive is removed and Linux installed on a replacement. Any warranty service results in the original hard drive being placed back in the laptop, to insure prompt (and uncomplicated) service.
It is very clear, at least from our purchasing behavior, that IBM has not in any way shape or form factored our Linux use into their purchase/usage statistic. We are hardly unique in this, and this demonstrates that IMBs data is in fact deceptive, significantly understating the deployment of Linux and (where applicable) FreeBSD.
Indeed, if web and download statistics are any guide (and in a very general sense they can be), there are one hell of a lot of people who have deployed Linux on their IBM/Wintel laptops
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
You maybe right but still wildly off topic.
I'd like to see more political issues handled in Slashdot too, but I guess the "people running the site" are afraid of starting flame wars that could risk even the Slashdot itself.
BTW Don't blame all the country for the deeds of the government/president.