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Economics of File-Sharing

Umair writes "The Red Herring's got an article by me about the economics of file-sharing, which argues that the music industry should provide insurance...against itself. This is because the contract listeners sign with labels is risky - it lets labels shirk on their end of the bargain. That's why file-sharing isn't just 'theft', it's risk-sharing. The original, longer, version of the paper is here, which argues that this a situation economists call double moral hazard."

38 of 265 comments (clear)

  1. 14.4! by Aliencow · · Score: 5, Funny

    They should just pass a law to force everyone to use 14.4K modems unless you own the totality of the music owned by the RIAA members, and still have the original bill, of course.

    Or sue "teh interweb"

    1. Re:14.4! by AntiOrganic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then we'd have the same situation we had in 1996, with record labels going batshit insane and trying to shut down MIDI sites.

    2. Re:14.4! by Aliencow · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well they already tried to shutdown lyrics sites didn't they?
      I mean...if I can read the lyrics why do I need to buy the CD? Sounds obvious to me!

  2. One weakness of both articles: free always wins by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Both of the linked articles make a compelling case that consumers embraced file-sharing as a form of insurance in a situation of moral hazard. What the articles don't explain is why consumers would be willing to move away from file-sharing toward any of the various proposed contracts.

    --
    Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
    1. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by cthugha · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What the articles don't explain is why consumers would be willing to move away from file-sharing toward any of the various proposed contracts.

      There are a number of explanations, the most obvious being enlightened self-interest (you need to pay for music if you want more music down the track) and the acqusition of intangible secondary beneifts (you pay for a warn, fuzzy feeling of goodness and righteousness). Both aren't strong factors in the current market because of the predominant consumer sentiment against the record labels, i.e. consumers think the labels can take the loss associated with infringement or are just ripping consumers off anyway.

      It's true that classical economics doesn't model this very well, but classical econimics doesn't model open source/free software process very well either, a fact that has in no way impeded the continued existence of that process.

    2. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by localman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In a word, "service".

      People would be willing to pay for better service. In fact, they already do. Witness the amazing success of the iTunes Music Store thusfar. This is in spite of the fact that people can download the same songs for free. More reliable searching, faster downloads, and consistant quality are worth about $.99 per song to a heck of a lot of people.

      If the RIAA had kept it's focus on pleasing customers they would never have had the problems they're having now. A good lesson for _any_ corporation.

      Cheers.

    3. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Moochman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While it's true that many gawk at buying music when they've got broadband and KaZaA, I think there's a decent population that would be willing to pay for music, on CD or otherwise, if it came with extras such as interesting CD booklets (or downloadable versions thereof).

      But as for this article, it misses the point that it itself initially makes: the companies aren't investing in the search for the artists.

      This is enabled by an aspect of the music industry that the author doesn't take into account: MTV and radio. The way it works is basically: Industry says to MTV: play this music video; MTV plays it repeatedly; the video is seen enough times that the song get stuck in viewers' heads; the viewers then request the song on radio; and finally the song gets played so much via radio that everyone knows it and are brainwashed into buying the album, because it's got that song they know and love. The song could be absolute crap in comparison to everything else, mind you, it's just a matter of what the industry decides to support. Generally the looks of the artists are the deciding factor.

      Only rarely does truly original, interesting new music get played on the mainstream radio stations, and then it's usually a battle for it to really become "mainstream" (because, after all, it's not a music video on MTV so no one's heard of it).

      So, basically, since the recording companies CAN control listeners' preferences, they do. Smarter listeners (the ones who seek out interesting music themselves), on the other hand, have no easy way to connect into the closed media-driven circuit. And they end up downloading music online, or copying it or ripping it, simply because there is no easier way of discovering interesting music short of shelling out tons of cash.

      Therefore, the problem that needs to be solved is that the industry needs to do its job and seek out the good music, not make up for its laziness by offering cash-back incentives, as the article suggests.

      Until this starts happening, I don't see any reason I should go into Sam Goody.

    4. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 5, Interesting
      if it came with extras such as interesting CD booklets (or downloadable versions thereof).


      This is one of my pet peeves: back in the 1970's, album covers and inserts were an art form. You would buy an album, take it home, open it, put the record on the turntable, and then sit listening to it while you absorbed the cover art and (often) the fold-out section. It was a true multimedia experience, and many of my memories of favorite albums are inextricably linked to the tactile and visual sensations of the album cover. The covers were huge! They filled your entire field of vision! And they were designed by interesting artists who built in elaborate connections to the music itself.


      Those days are long gone, and it's a sad thing.

      --
      Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
    5. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Michael+Spencer+Jr. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the author left that out because, to an economist, it seems obvious. The cost/benefit decision consumers make isn't predictable, but it's well-understood. There's some value at which certain percentages of the population think it's better to buy music legally than to break copyright law. The simplistic view I had before reading this article was based on that concept -- I felt that record companies needed to bring their prices down until an acceptably large portion of the population returns to buying copies of music.

      If your particular "crossover point" is under a penny, that doesn't invalidate the author's interpretation of human behavior in economics terms. The law of supply and demand has already weeded you out.

      The author's paper has changed my opinion. It was extremely insightful, and therefore very persuasive. It doesn't require that we trust the author's expert opinion about anything in particular. Instead he draws from real-world examples that demonstrate common-sense economics concepts, applies formal economics terms to them, and then uses those terms to distance the reader from the emotional impact of "stealing music" and "starving artists" and allow the reader to think about the risks and expectations involved in buying music.

      Some users have been misinterpreting "moral hazard" to mean something about placing a "morality cost" on the act of copyright infringement. Some then use this as an opportunity to state that their particular "morality cost" is near zero. That's not what the author meant by "moral hazard". The term doesn't specifically refer to morality, but rather refers to the hazard inherent in trusting that a record label will only charge a fair price, especially when we can't see what they're doing or how they're doing it.

      Others might interpret the point of this paper to mean other things, but in my interpretation: people who use the term "moral hazard" as an opportunity to talk about how much people value the legal risk of copyright infringement are missing the point and should be considered offtopic; and people who misunderstand "moral hazard" and think it's talking specifically about the value of that legal risk are probably not reading or not understanding the article.

      The article makes good sense, and is worth the time it takes to read it carefully: when I buy music I can't help but wonder if the "agent" (the label) is pricing fairly or unfairly, because I can't see how their business process works. Also, now that the author brings it up, it would help if there was some kind of "insurance" such that I don't have to pay so much if the music I buy sucks, but also if I don't have a chance to abuse this "insurance".

    6. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the contrary; there's a very good reason that I might be willing to pay. Umair did explain it: If a music service could consistently present me with music that I want to listen to more than once, it would save me a lot of search time. That's time that I could spend doing something else, such as listening to music that I really like. That's definitely worth some money to me, though I couldn't tell you how much until I see the service.

      I've bought from iTunes, but I'm not impressed by it. Why not? Well, I tested it by taking some of my favorite CDs and looking them up on iTunes. I couldn't find any of them. My conclusion is that iTunes, good as it may be for others, just doesn't cater to people with my tastes.

      I don't think that it matters what my tastes may be. When I look around me, I find a lot of really good musicians, who have never been recorded by any label, and never will be. When I mention this to other people, they always agree, though they give different examples. So I conclude that there is a lot of music in the world that I'd like if I could hear it, and I'd pay for recordings of it. But iTunes doesn't find it for me. Neither do any of the other commercial music suppliers.

      OTOH, there are people who do find me the music that I like. And when they recommend a CD, I'll buy it without listening to it. But those people don't work for Apple, or for any of the labels. Some of them are online, and have web sites that include their own reviews of recordings plus links to the musicians' web sites. This works well, and I've bought a number of CDs this way.

      What we need now is a good, systematic way for such reviewers to get a bit of pay for passing out such time-saving information.

      This is all doing an end run around the traditional recording industry's distribution channels. But why should I care? That industry hasn't done a good job of supplying me with music. Now I can find good music by spending some time listening more or less at random, and by listening to the advice of others with tastes like mine. If someone can save me some of this time, I'll be willing to pay them. But I don'tsee the recording industry doing it any time soon.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  3. And here I thought... by mikeophile · · Score: 4, Funny

    a double moral hazard would be an evening with the Hilton sisters.

  4. They should provide insurance? by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't think so. I think they should stop price-fixing. I mean, doesn't it seem odd that the Two-Towers extended version, which has 4 DVDs and cost millions to make, costs roughly the same as new release music CDs? What happened to the free-market system of America? Where is that cost coming from? There's no way they could spend the same amount of money on making a CD as a full-length feature film DVD. Is there?

    BTW, has anyone recieved their settlement check?

    1. Re:They should provide insurance? by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Insurance can help move merchandise. Back when I was in high school in the late '70s, I bought an album by Gruppo Sportivo because it was advertised by the local record store with a money-back offer: if you don't like the record, return it. I bought it, liked it, and didn't return it. Since I'd never heard of Gruppo Sportivo before, I likely wouldn't have bought it without the insurance. As it is, I have one more fond memory of the cool music of my youth.

      --
      Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
    2. Re:They should provide insurance? by GeorgeH · · Score: 4, Informative
      The record industry doesn't have an equivalent of movie theatres.
      The record industry does have an equivalent, it's called a concert.
      --
      Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
  5. Better still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pass legislation establishing a breif hunting season on lawyers representing trade associations.

    1. Re:Better still... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Release all music under a Creative Commons license, sell stuff by public ransom if you become popular, and own all your own music rights. Instead of Marketing owning the musician, the popular musician could hire Marketing on commission when they've already got a hit, and sell rights to commercial interests. Sounds pretty good to me.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  6. That was about as clear as mud...... by herrvinny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Such a system might, for example, reimburse listeners for a certain amount of music that they find unsatisfactory with cash, free music, or music vouchers.

    How does one define "unsatisfactory" with music? Kind of complicated to measure.

    File sharing is not simply theft.

    Correct. It is not theft, it is copyright infringement, a civil issue. You can't go to jail over it, but you can over theft.

    In an extreme case, the labels might begin to impose costs beyond the actual search and production costs for which listeners are actually interesting in paying just to feed the bottom line. That is exactly what the recording industry did well before file sharing existed. The result? Alienated and disgruntled customers.

    And the industry continues to do so. It hasn't reduced prices since CDs came into existence, which is at least curious, since the cost of pressing those CDs must have dropped through the floor since then.

  7. Double - moral hazard? by jea6 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also known as damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
  8. Filesharing by SisyphusShrugged · · Score: 4, Funny

    The truth of the matter is, I feel no qualms whatsoever for downloading musical files (actually I probably dont listen to any label that is part of the RIAA anyway)

    This is the crux of the problem, although they have scared the P2P Kazaa kiddies off with the RIAA's actions that has done nothing but make the P2P more well run and it is now the dominion of ./ers with super high speed connections sharing high quality files.

    An analagous situation can be seen with the "War on Drugs", all it has done is improve the quality of the drugs being used!

  9. Morals? by tinrobot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Moral Hazard implies that the record companies have morals.

    They don't.

  10. not a brand identity by Kilka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What if, for business reasons, the labels are more interested in their own economies of scale and brand identity than providing listeners with music they value?
    I don't think the music labels are big on making themselves a brand identity. Aside from text in music videos, and small icons on cds, they are not recognizable to most. A brand identity implies that everyone knows the brand, even if they have never used the product. Coke can be classified in this way, since it is one of the most recognizable logos around. -Kilka

    --
    If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -Chomsky
  11. Morality? Please... by jmalm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The author seems to be implying that people will change their habits, either by choice or by legislation, based upon an obligation to the artist or recording label. With something so abstract, the cited economic principles don't necessarily apply here -- the good can be replicated at almost zero cost, unlike stealing something else such as a lemon from your local grocer for example.

    In the case of stealing from the grocer, morality is somewhat different because the lemon pool you are drawing from is finite and depletes the supply. But copying a bunch of data to your 120G hard drive that is only utilised to 20% has no perceived cost and does not deplete any one else's resource.

    The issue is more complicated than what is stated, and the equalisation schemes suggested do not take away from the fact that downloading a piece of data has almost no variable cost. Do economics work when 0 is in the denominator?

  12. Re:Double Moral Weight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not trying to slam on you, but you didn't read either of the articles so set yourself up. You don't understand the principal agent problem or what he means by moral hazard. When economists talk about moral hazard, they're speaking of incentives, not about going to hell. And risk sharing in this manifestation is something you're supposed to like--it upsets the labels not consumers.

    The problem is with the way we buy music, but have no ability to return it if it sucks. So the music industry has no incentive to make the product satisfactory, so long as they can find a way to get us to buy it (albeit making the song good is a good way to make us buy it). So music pirates' response to this is a form of risk sharing--We diversify the risk of a song sucking over everyone who downloads it. Because we have pooled our resources and invested less in any one product, we have less unique risk (from bad mp3s). It's not a very good analogy, but it makes some sense.

  13. Contract. by BrookHarty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the Article.
    Is there a way out of this mess? Can the record industry offer it's own insurance, so listeners do not have to file share? Can it do so without creating a double moral hazard? Yes - by shifting to a more sophisticated contract.

    I'd rather just get the RIAA out of the distribution side of music, they don't belong on this side of the fence. With the RIAA trying to control the distribution channels, they just strangle new technologies and screw the artists who they supposedly support.

    With Senator Orrin Hatch the riaa whore and Corporate Elected Criminal is just trying his damnest to go after these p2p users, using piracy as an escape goat to mask the problem that only concerns the RIAA. Control of distribution.

    iTunes and Napster2 already show people will buy music online. Just need to get more Indie/Alternative music available, which even cuts more into RIAA funds.

  14. Re:Double Moral Weight by mandalayx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is bullcrap. If I don't care and feel no moral object to downloading music, why would 'risk-sharing' upset me. I don't even know what risk sharing is!

    The moral impact of downloading music for me is ZERO, in spite of what some MBA monkey tells me. 'Risk sharing' isn't going to scare me into sharing less.


    I understand the author cites Risk Sharing as a primary reason why people aren't buying music. Read the article, and you can see some definite implications of record companies' misjudgements.

    The author claims that the reason why people aren't buying music is that because they don't know whether it is any good. This risk, the risk that the music you just bought for $18 totally sucks, is the risk he talks about.

    When he says that people are mitigating risk via file-sharing (i.e. risk-sharing) he implies that by one person buying the cd (or taking some other cost to self, including risk of legal action) and distributing it to others, then others get to "try" the music without risk.

    Of course, this brings up the fundamental problem which I believe lies within--Are people willing to pay for music? Currently Steve Jobs and others are trying to prove their particular answer.

  15. Moral Hazard (was Re:Morals?) by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 4, Informative

    "moral" here is being used in the sense it is used in "moral certainty". The contrast in both cases isn't moral as opposed to immoral, but moral/practical as opposed to theoretical. A moral certainty is a practical certainty, a certainty great enough for to determine one's action, but not enough for a mathematical demonstration. A moral hazard is a practical danger, that is, one's action puts one in danger.

    It's just how academics talk.

    --
    Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
  16. Fair beats free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I like having the CD. I like having the case, the nice ink on the disc, the booklet, the extras like Daft Punks download offers.

    When I do download off the net, it is not infrequently followed by purchases at a store somewhere. Maybe the same songs, maybe the same artist, mabey different mixes. Stuff like VS tracks I haven't been able to find retail, certainly not in compilations.

    But again, it's not a suprise to me. I first heard both TMBG and BNL off of boarrowed cassette copies. Eventually I was able to barrow a copy of Apollo 18, now I own something in the neighborhood of 20 TMBG cds have gone to concerts and lament the fact I didn't get to grow up listening to them. BNL, the story isn't too different, aside from the lower album count. I bought the Saturday Morning Cartoon CD, because it has a song called Speed Racer on it, and I thought MAYBE it'd be Go Speed Go by Alpha Team. It wasn't but the CD didn't suck either.

    Which ties nicely into the article sparking this thread. I pay the distributers to find the music I want to listen to. There job is to search for me. And they failed miserably with Go Speed Go. It was a hard song to find. I spent a lot of time looking. So what exactly AM I paying them for in that case? It certainly could have been harder, but it could have been much easier too. The stuff I want is getting lost in the stuff they're telling me to want. As I suspect happens with almost everyone who's not 13 to 15.

    So how to I redress that imbalance? I share, I download. If it's something I really want, I buy. Not only do I take on the responsability of searching for myself, since they've abandond me despite my willingness to spend money, and I punish them for not keeping their part of the deal. I download stuff I think friends might like. I share copies I decided I don't like to improve network availability for those who do like them. And the random good song from the people who produce one decent song, and nothing else but crap, I just keep. It's my tax on them.

    When they decide to live up to their part of the bargain, I'll consider revisiting mine. They better hope I don't get too set in my ways. Habbits are hard to break.

  17. A big fucking factory by t_allardyce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The business model works like this:

    1. Create catchy sounding music by whatever means necessary, doesn't need to be original or high quality, just needs a hook.

    2. Play it on the radio and tv, push the musicians into the public eye with advertising

    3. Clubs, shops, other tv/radio stations etc will start playing the song because everyone else is, at this point you have successfully made a 'hit'

    4. Sell, rake in profit

    After a set number of years a song will have left most peoples memories so it can be 're-released' using its original familiarity to create an instant hit, you must make sure that the re-release or re-mix has an extra underlaying beat or melody or is faster or louder so that the original pales in comparison and people will buy the new song, alternatively parts of the melody can be broken down and re-used as scrap - you will probably notice scrap melody in anything by Blue or Justin Timberlake and many others - it sounds like something you've heard before but you just cant put your finger on it.

    And remember the all time rule of the entertainment industry: If it worked the first time, do it another 10

    (Big Brother, PopStars, Making the Band, Generic boy/girl bands that all sound the same, teenage girls that all sound the same, Changing [rooms|places|clothes|wives], Im a celebrity [insert something here], The worlds worst x, something island x, Airport/Cruiseliner/Hospital/Cops)

    PS as a brit im really sorry for Popstars, but here we now have Fame Academy 2! its much worse and they dont even have that cool guy that tells everyone they're shit. I think we just finished Big Brother 3

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  18. double nonsense by danharan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So some guy that used to work for the World Bank wants to make a market more efficient. Surprised?

    Of course, as whirled bank types are wont to do, they might actually distort reality to make their models fit onto it.

    He recognizes early on that the labels are expected to "take on the risk of talent search, artist development, and distribution costs, in exchange for profits", but then only focuses on talent search.

    Downloading files from Kazaa is not doing the work of a talent scout: it is about getting stuff for free. Pretending it's about being a talent scout is laughable.

    Also, who's doing the work of artist development and music production (those mp3 are usually recorded in studios...)? The problem is, the labels are often shirking those responsibilities too.

    I recognize that downloading copyrighted music is illegal. I also think it served a good purpose: CD prices have gone down - at least in Canada - and we are getting better legal ways of buying music.

    While his description of the problem stinks, this is a case of "moral hazard" if that's what you want to call it.

    His solution has some merit in that it might encourage labels to try developping unconventional artists (assuming most of the people that hear the songs decide to not ask their money back, and that this type of contract makes them more likely to try new things).

    OR - You could of course just provide free music- radio is after all one way to do that, and all the label types know that radio play sells albums.

    We don't need new contracts so much as new business models. Keep providing free music, since that works. Also take advantage of new distribution (bye bye music stores with underpaid staff, hello iTunes).

    And use all this to promote live music. Since it's easy to keep track of what people buy, you can tell them when their favorite bands are playing near them. Is this so complicated?

    Of course, this type of arrangement might be the death knell for large labels... in a market like this, you could arrange to have smaller regional players.

    Umair Haque's proposal seems custom-designed to evade most of the issues, and keep the big labels alive. I'm not so interested: they've proven to be companies that don't care about art or artists, and are willing to gouge consumers. Enough!

    --
    Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
    1. Re:double nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hi,

      I'm the author. Thanks for discussing my piece. Here are some points to consider.

      1) Moral hazard does not mean the record industry has 'morals'. It's a technical term - like grep, or chmod. It means that one party in a contract can take hidden action - like your babysitter - because you can't effectively monitor or influence them.

      2) I'm arguing that the record industry should provide free music - not the other way around. Insurance is just another form of free music - whether you get reimbursed in money that you can spend on free music, or free MP3's, or free music vouchers.

      3) An efficient market is not a monopoly. An efficient market for music is what all of us really want: a place where we can pay as much for music as the value we derive from it. The problem we're all facing is that the market for music is inefficient - that the music industry can price-fix, gouge, shirk on it's contract, and earn more profits by exploiting such tactics.

      4) I'm not 'trying to give control to the RIAA'. In fact, it's the other way around. Read what DVD Jon has to say about buying into DRM - iTunes is nice, but by buying into it, you're also buying into DRM. I'm trying to argue that DRM sucks - and that entirely new business models are the only thing that will work - and iTunes is just the same old model wrapped in a nice interface. I'm trying to prove why the RIAA wants the game to stay the same - so it can keep selling the same old risky contract to all of us, in exchange for greater profits.

      4.1) Not all MBA's are beancounters. Get over it.

      Umair

  19. Zero dollar economics by SolemnDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I won't speak to the moral issue. What i do have to offer is the thought that the dollar value goes to zero, but the perceived value doesn't. THat's because there's a shift from tangible assets to intangible assets happening.

    When the dollar amount goes to zero, you evaluate a choice by how it affects your perception of yourself, and how it affects the possibility of future tangible assets. In this case, yes, the dollar cost to the consumer is near zero. However... there is a perceived dollar benefit (not having to buy the music) plus a perceived moral benefit, because the RIAA has been acting like the bad guy. The RIAA has been trying to counter this by upping the dollar cost (suing) rather than upping the intangible benefits. If they dropped the dollar cost, this would up the perceived moral value of keeping the RIAA afloat. But because they've become accustomed to dollars-only economic measures, they aren't likely to get this soon.

    The other major factor here is that customers aren't just ditching the dollar cost- they are choosing to offer it more directly to the producers (in the goods sense, the producers mean the musicians and the small labels bringing them to market.) People aren't just ditching music. They're trading and sharing- and many are contnuing to spend, just in ways that don't benefit the RIAA. So the perceived-intangible-value really is getting a field demonstration.

  20. Free does not always win by santos_douglas · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There are countless cases where individuals choose to pay for an item/service that they could otherwise get for free. Some other posters have hinted at it but not come out and said so quite so explicitly - the determinant is the time/difficulty involved with the free vs the paid, even when there is no question of legality.

    Music, video, and software are all obvious examples. Why buy music one can record from the radio virtually free? Largely because its a hassle and takes time. Why go to the movies or rent a DVD when you can just wait for it to come out on TV? Again, time spent watching commercials and the inconvenience of scheduling are worth more than the few bucks. Why pay the M$ tax when you can just download linux for free? Because it takes time to both do it and acquire some technical knowledge.

  21. I'd Like to see that .... by Grizzlysmit · · Score: 4, Funny
    If the industry offered consumers the ability to simply return any music they did not like, consumers might return all of their music - even the music they did like - after having copied or consumed it. It would be as though restaurants offered money back guarantees you could exercise after having eaten your entire meal and you claimed you were dissatisfied.

    hmmm ... restaurants that had a return policy on food after eaten ... hmmmm fully proccessed or partial ... on second thoughts I don't want to know or see that!!

    --
    in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
    Francis Smit
  22. They left something out by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Interesting
    On the label contract side they've reduced their risk to near zero by charging back development and promotional costs to the artist. Even a successful artist ends up getting jack from CD sales. The big media companies have been dicking the principles on both sides of the contract going on 50 years now. Is it really any surprise they fight like hell for survival? None of the big labels want to see that gravy train reach the end of the line. It's easy money. Fat City.

    But their efforts in Congress and the courts are useless. They're just breeding smarter file sharers. Especially those in the technology business, people who have maybe worked on projects together over the years. A group of friends who exchange playlists the old fashioned way: ASCII text. They can swap songs and entire CD's in compressed, encrypted formats because we- I mean they -don't make their collections available to the public and know enough about transfer protocols to make detection damn difficult. Or maybe they snail mail CD's, thumb drives or USB hard drives for the really big jobs.

    As usual the bullies pick on those least able to defend themselves.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  23. More than consumer/artist involved by randall_burns · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The big issue I had with this article:

    The author assumed that media companies mediate between consumers and artists. Another major factor is that media corporations mediate between both consumers and artists and government. The very existance of copyright laws is a mechanism created by government. Other societies have sometimes used other mechanisms to fund the arts-for example in the old Soviet Union, artists received a stipend from the state. In the 1700's, artists such as Mozart would sometimes find patronage from members of the nobility.


    The copyright laws in the United States today go substantially beyond the mechanisms first mandated by the constitution--the concept of "limited time" for Copyrights is getting streched. I personally don't think the Founding Fathers really meant for Copyright to be such a big part of people's lives. Had they understood how information technology would evolve, I think they'd have wanted a substantial mechanism for funding freely available educational and cultural material--just as much as they wanted infrastructure like roads and bridges.


    Instead, what we have now are major media monopolies that actively work to get greater concessions from government and media companies that are major recipients of corporate welfare.

  24. Some Tools for Thought... by dyoo78 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Fundamentally, I'm going to argue that consumers download music, as much to derive extra value from getting something for free, as they do because they want insurance against buying something they didn't want in the first place. File-sharing is as much about risk-sharing as it is about the 'theft' of value."

    The article addresses market failure through the lense of information asymmetries, moral hazard and agency costs. These explainations are classic economic (Ronald Coase) explainations of why there is a failure in the music market. Yet, the fundamental argument of this paper - that double moral hazard and information assymetries cause market failure in the music industry - misses the fundamental point of market failures in ALL information markets(software, music, art, books, etc).

    Information goods resemble public goods. Consider the three tenet assumptions in properly functioning markets. The assumptions are 1) that the good is rivalrous, 2) that the good is excludable, 3) that there is full information when purchasing the good. Combinations of these three assumptions results in various types of goods, which require different economic models to solve. For instance, if the good is non-rival or non-excludable, the good is considered a public good. Some examples of public goods are public parks, the sun, air, etc. These types of goods are non-rival because your consumption doesn't deplete the good such from other users/consumers. Likewise, these goods are non-excludable because it is very hard to put a fence around it, and hence, rationing such good by a price mechanism.

    Now, consider information goods in this sense. Information goods resemble public goods because they are non-rival and non-excludable. My consuming the information doesn't deplete the good and prevent others from using it and excluding others from consuming information (putting a fence around information) is very difficult. The fundamental problem within the music market is that we have a market failure from the start precisely because music is 1) non-rival 2) non-excludable.

    The author tells us a story about the music market needing risk insurance, yet fails to consider the very notion of economic exchange in information goods. The problem with music is this. Consumers want music and indicate their preference for music by voting with their dollars. Yet, when the marginal cost of distributing the good is nil, and those that shouldn't be excluded from the market are being excluded, we have a problem. When you want to reward creators of music, and not exclude anyone from the market without specific reason, what is the right price you should sell your music?

    I agree that there are problems with value indicators, (i.e. price of all music is the same ($12) and consumers can't reward music creators based on societal value), but I still see some fundamental flaws in his argument.

    So who's working on the economic problem of information goods? Enter Suzzan Scotchmer, Brad Delong, John Zysman, Steve Weber, and Hal Varian.

    These people are all Berkeley professors who discuss micro/macro level frameworks that give us tools for thought in information markets. There is an academic revolution going on at Berkeley and I'm very thankful, I am here to witness it. ;)

    For your reference, I am an undergraduate at UC Berkeley and have studied information economics for some time now. More information about me can be found here: www.dyoo.tk

  25. Re:Bovine manure by Raffaello · · Score: 4, Insightful

    4. Because they're honest.

    Hard to believe, but there are a whole bunch of honest people still out there. If there weren't, who would all the dirtbags rip off?

  26. Legality by t0ny · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Ive always been curious about something, but since I was never interested in the whole MP3 thing, I never looked into it.

    If you already own the music, is it legal to get MP3's of that music off the internet?

    In my case, it would be a collection of around 100 tapes (not CDs, but tapes). The tapes still work, but obviously it isnt the most convient media format. Would it be legal to just get higher quality files of that music? Or is their contention that you dont own a license to the music, but are tied to whatever media you purchased it on? Im sure this runs into what boundaries there are for 'fair use', but IANAL.

    --

    Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.