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Economics of File-Sharing

Umair writes "The Red Herring's got an article by me about the economics of file-sharing, which argues that the music industry should provide insurance...against itself. This is because the contract listeners sign with labels is risky - it lets labels shirk on their end of the bargain. That's why file-sharing isn't just 'theft', it's risk-sharing. The original, longer, version of the paper is here, which argues that this a situation economists call double moral hazard."

83 of 265 comments (clear)

  1. 14.4! by Aliencow · · Score: 5, Funny

    They should just pass a law to force everyone to use 14.4K modems unless you own the totality of the music owned by the RIAA members, and still have the original bill, of course.

    Or sue "teh interweb"

    1. Re:14.4! by AntiOrganic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then we'd have the same situation we had in 1996, with record labels going batshit insane and trying to shut down MIDI sites.

    2. Re:14.4! by Aliencow · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well they already tried to shutdown lyrics sites didn't they?
      I mean...if I can read the lyrics why do I need to buy the CD? Sounds obvious to me!

  2. One weakness of both articles: free always wins by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Both of the linked articles make a compelling case that consumers embraced file-sharing as a form of insurance in a situation of moral hazard. What the articles don't explain is why consumers would be willing to move away from file-sharing toward any of the various proposed contracts.

    --
    Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
    1. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Sawbones · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It doesn't offer a solution but it does address the issue. About halfway through the article mentions that the file sharing systems in place have created a double moral hazard - since now some of the music "principals" (us) are shirking their responsibility to compensate the agent (the record labels) by paying for the music.

      The ideal situation is, of course, sample music, find what you like, buy it. It's just that in this case it's step 3 that gets the "???".

      --

      Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
    2. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by cthugha · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What the articles don't explain is why consumers would be willing to move away from file-sharing toward any of the various proposed contracts.

      There are a number of explanations, the most obvious being enlightened self-interest (you need to pay for music if you want more music down the track) and the acqusition of intangible secondary beneifts (you pay for a warn, fuzzy feeling of goodness and righteousness). Both aren't strong factors in the current market because of the predominant consumer sentiment against the record labels, i.e. consumers think the labels can take the loss associated with infringement or are just ripping consumers off anyway.

      It's true that classical economics doesn't model this very well, but classical econimics doesn't model open source/free software process very well either, a fact that has in no way impeded the continued existence of that process.

    3. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by localman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In a word, "service".

      People would be willing to pay for better service. In fact, they already do. Witness the amazing success of the iTunes Music Store thusfar. This is in spite of the fact that people can download the same songs for free. More reliable searching, faster downloads, and consistant quality are worth about $.99 per song to a heck of a lot of people.

      If the RIAA had kept it's focus on pleasing customers they would never have had the problems they're having now. A good lesson for _any_ corporation.

      Cheers.

    4. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Moochman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While it's true that many gawk at buying music when they've got broadband and KaZaA, I think there's a decent population that would be willing to pay for music, on CD or otherwise, if it came with extras such as interesting CD booklets (or downloadable versions thereof).

      But as for this article, it misses the point that it itself initially makes: the companies aren't investing in the search for the artists.

      This is enabled by an aspect of the music industry that the author doesn't take into account: MTV and radio. The way it works is basically: Industry says to MTV: play this music video; MTV plays it repeatedly; the video is seen enough times that the song get stuck in viewers' heads; the viewers then request the song on radio; and finally the song gets played so much via radio that everyone knows it and are brainwashed into buying the album, because it's got that song they know and love. The song could be absolute crap in comparison to everything else, mind you, it's just a matter of what the industry decides to support. Generally the looks of the artists are the deciding factor.

      Only rarely does truly original, interesting new music get played on the mainstream radio stations, and then it's usually a battle for it to really become "mainstream" (because, after all, it's not a music video on MTV so no one's heard of it).

      So, basically, since the recording companies CAN control listeners' preferences, they do. Smarter listeners (the ones who seek out interesting music themselves), on the other hand, have no easy way to connect into the closed media-driven circuit. And they end up downloading music online, or copying it or ripping it, simply because there is no easier way of discovering interesting music short of shelling out tons of cash.

      Therefore, the problem that needs to be solved is that the industry needs to do its job and seek out the good music, not make up for its laziness by offering cash-back incentives, as the article suggests.

      Until this starts happening, I don't see any reason I should go into Sam Goody.

    5. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 5, Interesting
      if it came with extras such as interesting CD booklets (or downloadable versions thereof).


      This is one of my pet peeves: back in the 1970's, album covers and inserts were an art form. You would buy an album, take it home, open it, put the record on the turntable, and then sit listening to it while you absorbed the cover art and (often) the fold-out section. It was a true multimedia experience, and many of my memories of favorite albums are inextricably linked to the tactile and visual sensations of the album cover. The covers were huge! They filled your entire field of vision! And they were designed by interesting artists who built in elaborate connections to the music itself.


      Those days are long gone, and it's a sad thing.

      --
      Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
    6. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Michael+Spencer+Jr. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the author left that out because, to an economist, it seems obvious. The cost/benefit decision consumers make isn't predictable, but it's well-understood. There's some value at which certain percentages of the population think it's better to buy music legally than to break copyright law. The simplistic view I had before reading this article was based on that concept -- I felt that record companies needed to bring their prices down until an acceptably large portion of the population returns to buying copies of music.

      If your particular "crossover point" is under a penny, that doesn't invalidate the author's interpretation of human behavior in economics terms. The law of supply and demand has already weeded you out.

      The author's paper has changed my opinion. It was extremely insightful, and therefore very persuasive. It doesn't require that we trust the author's expert opinion about anything in particular. Instead he draws from real-world examples that demonstrate common-sense economics concepts, applies formal economics terms to them, and then uses those terms to distance the reader from the emotional impact of "stealing music" and "starving artists" and allow the reader to think about the risks and expectations involved in buying music.

      Some users have been misinterpreting "moral hazard" to mean something about placing a "morality cost" on the act of copyright infringement. Some then use this as an opportunity to state that their particular "morality cost" is near zero. That's not what the author meant by "moral hazard". The term doesn't specifically refer to morality, but rather refers to the hazard inherent in trusting that a record label will only charge a fair price, especially when we can't see what they're doing or how they're doing it.

      Others might interpret the point of this paper to mean other things, but in my interpretation: people who use the term "moral hazard" as an opportunity to talk about how much people value the legal risk of copyright infringement are missing the point and should be considered offtopic; and people who misunderstand "moral hazard" and think it's talking specifically about the value of that legal risk are probably not reading or not understanding the article.

      The article makes good sense, and is worth the time it takes to read it carefully: when I buy music I can't help but wonder if the "agent" (the label) is pricing fairly or unfairly, because I can't see how their business process works. Also, now that the author brings it up, it would help if there was some kind of "insurance" such that I don't have to pay so much if the music I buy sucks, but also if I don't have a chance to abuse this "insurance".

    7. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by mniskin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think the RIAA is too upset about people downloading small numbers of unknown artist's music. Most of the crap on kazaa is mainstream garbage like 50 Cent and the like. Not that I don't enjoy it, or anything, though. But the point is that the vast majority of kazaa users just want to download the very product that the "agents" are contracted to find for them. They obviously like what they're being fed. If everyone left Ludakris' new album alone and instead ripped and traded Joe Banner's Nostalgia Quartet and Ukelele Band then there would be no problem.

      So basically, what I'm saying is this: complaining about the quality of the choices that the music industry makes when they decide which artists to market is completely a moot point. All they are upset about is that they do their job only to have the consumer reneg on their side of the bargain and download their products for free, but only after benefiting from the music industry's work and investment. The proof that they have held up their end is that the consumer vastly prefers to steal music industry supported artists to unknown independents.

    8. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Moochman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think the RIAA is too upset about people downloading small numbers of unknown artist's music.

      You're right there, and maybe I did go a bit far with the "smart listener" as victim.

      I should also note that after reading the "How the Top 40 Works" article, I realize that it's even more of a closed loop than I thought--listener requests have much less influence than "playlists" which are in turn influenced by the labels.

      All they are upset about is that they do their job only to have the consumer reneg on their side of the bargain and download their products for free, but only after benefiting from the music industry's work and investment. The proof that they have held up their end is that the consumer vastly prefers to steal music industry supported artists.

      There you're wrong. That the consumer "vastly prefers to steal music industry supported artists" proves nothing about whether they held up their end of the bargain, because 1) it's being downloaded based on its familiarity, not its quality, and 2) it's being downloaded because it's not seen as valuable enough to buy.

    9. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by nyquility · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the solution has to be a system of checks and balances where on the one hand I, as the consumer/principal, feel I am getting my moneys worth or if not have some avenue of redress and on the other hand I know that if I abuse my end of the bargain I may end up paying a multiple of what I would have paid, had I played fair.

      This reminds me a lot of how public transport works here in Austria where I am living at the moment. There are no entry or exit "barriers" so its pretty easy to just walk onto a subway train or a tram and not pay for a ticket. Of course there are plain-clothes controllers who will check your ticket and getting caught without leads to a hefty fine. The price of a ticket itself is reasonable, so even though a percentage of people "run the gauntlet" of not paying, most just shell out the small amount of money necessary to have the comfort and security of not having to worry about being caught. And in general you never feel you've been ripped off, because the service is pretty reliable.

      Then again all that being said, hell will hit 0 Kelvin before record company execs start thinking of it in similar terms. I strongly believe that they think of themselves more as "legal drugdealers" who control supply and demand completely and can freely dictate what, where, how much and at what price we will consume their product. And to all extents and purposes it has been so for a long time. I think the only party who has any power to change that is government but they are being "bought off" as hard as possible.... Dire times for music fans.

    10. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Michael+Spencer+Jr. · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think we're departing the article's topic a bit here, but you're right: it's interesting to discuss the cost/benefit decision users make when they decide whether to use an online music service, to buy CDs normally, or to break copyright law and download music without paying. I just think this wasn't the main point of the article. If people feel like discussing this, and today's moderators don't think it's too offtopic, we might see some interesting and important observations.

      I'm repeating myself a bit here, but I don't really think I'm qualified to talk about consumer behavior. I am not a psychologist. Economics says that there probably exists a curve to describe how much of the population will evaluate that cost/benefit decision one way or the other. Many would argue that this broad economic view of the decision isn't really adding anything to the discussion -- of course some people will switch and some won't. A more interesting discussion would cover why people switch and why they don't: how much people value the money it takes to buy music legally (an easy discussion) and how much people value the moral and legal risk involved in breaking copyright law and downloading copyrighted music (a much harder discussion).

      A discussion that tries to answer these questions must deal more with psychological issues than with economic issues, so it might be offtopic for this article. I won't stop others from discussing it here, but I don't have much to contribute. I'll leave this particular sub-topic to people with more interest in psychology and predictive consumer modeling than in economics.

    11. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the contrary; there's a very good reason that I might be willing to pay. Umair did explain it: If a music service could consistently present me with music that I want to listen to more than once, it would save me a lot of search time. That's time that I could spend doing something else, such as listening to music that I really like. That's definitely worth some money to me, though I couldn't tell you how much until I see the service.

      I've bought from iTunes, but I'm not impressed by it. Why not? Well, I tested it by taking some of my favorite CDs and looking them up on iTunes. I couldn't find any of them. My conclusion is that iTunes, good as it may be for others, just doesn't cater to people with my tastes.

      I don't think that it matters what my tastes may be. When I look around me, I find a lot of really good musicians, who have never been recorded by any label, and never will be. When I mention this to other people, they always agree, though they give different examples. So I conclude that there is a lot of music in the world that I'd like if I could hear it, and I'd pay for recordings of it. But iTunes doesn't find it for me. Neither do any of the other commercial music suppliers.

      OTOH, there are people who do find me the music that I like. And when they recommend a CD, I'll buy it without listening to it. But those people don't work for Apple, or for any of the labels. Some of them are online, and have web sites that include their own reviews of recordings plus links to the musicians' web sites. This works well, and I've bought a number of CDs this way.

      What we need now is a good, systematic way for such reviewers to get a bit of pay for passing out such time-saving information.

      This is all doing an end run around the traditional recording industry's distribution channels. But why should I care? That industry hasn't done a good job of supplying me with music. Now I can find good music by spending some time listening more or less at random, and by listening to the advice of others with tastes like mine. If someone can save me some of this time, I'll be willing to pay them. But I don'tsee the recording industry doing it any time soon.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    12. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by lonesome+phreak · · Score: 2, Funny

      "They filled your entire field of vision!"

      Yes...the record covers, helped along by a few hits of acid. :)

      --
      Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
    13. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by lonesome+phreak · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's why SoulSeek is still up. Much of the music on it isn't "mainstream" like synthpop, ebm, and so on. So, the RIAA doesn't care. And most of those artists probably get more business due to the exposure from the trading than they would otherwise. I know that, at least in the Midwest (but we don't really count) that most of those bands would be nearly unknown if it wasn't for some dedicated people handing out burned CDs of club music. Often people then buy the music after that - and they wouldn't have even had heard of them otherwise, so they aren't really missing any "sales" anyway.

      --
      Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
    14. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by TheAntiCrust · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not everyone wants to dedicate the time to go find that music. Not everyone is as into music as you are. I wasnt. I just didnt care. After Napster i started picking up a CD at borders every once and a while when i was there to buy a book. Call it lazy if you will. For some, it's merely a lack of interest.

    15. Re:One weakness of both articles: free always wins by Jadecristal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wouldn't go so far to say that "free always wins." If there is an artist I like, I *want* to support them, to the point of driving 8+ hours to see them.

      And while I'm there, I buy stuff just to buy it, like an extra copy of the CD I already have, and a shirt. In this case, it's pop/rock, but hey, that's one of the kinds of music that I like. Some of the artists that I like are signed to majors, some aren't - the reality of it is that even if they are signed to a major, they likely aren't making enough money to make it really worth their while, unless they're overpromoted for their talent.

      I'm not naive enough to say that those unsigned artists that even have time to tour will be totally supported by thing like t-shirt sales - that's silly, and to the point of an overused cliche.

      At risk of being flamed badly, I'll even admit to subscribing the "new" Napster, though I do so with no misunderstanding about what I'm "buying," which is pretty much a crappy sampling experience. The iTunes store is somewhat better, but still leaves things to be desired. Perhaps in time, the music industry, as it sits today, will get a clue. If not, the solution HAS to be music without industry.

  3. And here I thought... by mikeophile · · Score: 4, Funny

    a double moral hazard would be an evening with the Hilton sisters.

  4. They should provide insurance? by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't think so. I think they should stop price-fixing. I mean, doesn't it seem odd that the Two-Towers extended version, which has 4 DVDs and cost millions to make, costs roughly the same as new release music CDs? What happened to the free-market system of America? Where is that cost coming from? There's no way they could spend the same amount of money on making a CD as a full-length feature film DVD. Is there?

    BTW, has anyone recieved their settlement check?

    1. Re:They should provide insurance? by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure that I disagree with your point.

      I do think, however, that the fact that some (most? all?) of those production costs are recouped in the theatrical release represents a substantial failure in your comparison.

      -Peter

    2. Re:They should provide insurance? by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Insurance can help move merchandise. Back when I was in high school in the late '70s, I bought an album by Gruppo Sportivo because it was advertised by the local record store with a money-back offer: if you don't like the record, return it. I bought it, liked it, and didn't return it. Since I'd never heard of Gruppo Sportivo before, I likely wouldn't have bought it without the insurance. As it is, I have one more fond memory of the cool music of my youth.

      --
      Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
    3. Re:They should provide insurance? by blincoln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I mean, doesn't it seem odd that the Two-Towers extended version, which has 4 DVDs and cost millions to make, costs roughly the same as new release music CDs?

      No.

      Because by the time a film has been released on DVD, it has already generally made back its production costs and turned a profit. DVD sales are just additional profit, which is why they can be sold cheaply.

      The record industry doesn't have an equivalent of movie theatres. They make all their money from album sales, although apparently some of the big labels are trying for a cut of concert profits now.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    4. Re:They should provide insurance? by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Thanks!

      I'm not sure the fact that some movies make money (I would certainly hope they do!) represents a failure. Something to keep in mind, is that if a movie might suck, it doesn't get made (well, sometimes!). You can crank out a wide-release CD MUCH much cheaper than even a limited release film. That's why there seem to be so many unprofitable CDs as opposed to movies. I think this aspect is indicitive of the original author's point that the record industry doesn't seem to care as much about producing quality stuff (on the whole). In a limited sense, they don't have to. They play the lottery and hope Eminem or 50cent will crank out another 3X platinum album to make up for the 500 failures they tried to cram down our throats via nasty radio air-time contracts.

    5. Re:They should provide insurance? by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We have failed to communicate. Allow me to rephrase more clearly.

      Movies (potentially) make back their production costs in theatrical release.

      Then they go on sale for $14.99 on DVD. None of that money goes to the production of the film itself.

      Music CDs don't have something comparable to a theatrical release. If they don't make up the production costs on the CD they aren't making it back at all.

      Therefore your analogy is busted.

      I hope this is clearer.

      -Peter

    6. Re:They should provide insurance? by pete-classic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't work in that industry, but AFAIK as often as not the money flows the other direction.

      See for example How Top 40 Radio Works.

      Or oddles of links on Google.

      -Peter

    7. Re:They should provide insurance? by GeorgeH · · Score: 4, Informative
      The record industry doesn't have an equivalent of movie theatres.
      The record industry does have an equivalent, it's called a concert.
      --
      Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
    8. Re:They should provide insurance? by evilviper · · Score: 2, Informative
      The record industry doesn't have an equivalent of movie theatres. They make all their money from album sales

      That's just not true, even though the RIAA wants you to believe so...

      Radio, TV, Movies, Internet, Closed-circuit radio (like when you are on-hold, or on an elevator, etc.). Songs are recycled many times, on compilations and "Hits" CDs (significantly lowering costs), and also recycled when songs are "covered". CDs are less-than half as long as DVDs, and don't need advanced processes to create the media.

      I could continue to go on like this, but I think I've made my point. There are MANY, MANY, MANY ways that Record Companies make money back, other than CDs, and their costs to produce CDs are FAR, FAR less than the movie industry could ever dream. Worst of all, it's accepted fact that the actual artists (all but the very famous) are still being starved even with all that profit being made.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    9. Re:They should provide insurance? by Josuah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I mean, doesn't it seem odd that the Two-Towers extended version, which has 4 DVDs and cost millions to make, costs roughly the same as new release music CDs? What happened to the free-market system of America? Where is that cost coming from? There's no way they could spend the same amount of money on making a CD as a full-length feature film DVD. Is there?

      The "value" of something is not dependent solely on the cost of raw materials and labor. This is more obvious with scarce goods, such as artwork.

      However, it also carries over into categories of goods, such as "DVD movies". In what way was the product in this category of good conceived of? How costly was the marketing? How difficult was it to find the raw materials required? How expensive was it to produce the final product? Who foot the bill for up-front costs? What level of risk was involved in this investment?

      For example, assume it costs exactly the same amount to produce a music album X of 60 minutes as it does to produce a movie Y of 2 hours. But what if it cost producer of X $5M to find the artist and musicians who worked well with him? And it only cost producer of Y $25k to find the script, director, cast, and crew? These costs are not directly related to the specific album or movie, since they are spread across the entire business operations.

      It all comes down to a return on investment, risk, and what the market will bear. You may find it odd for a CD to cost $20. Others may not. If sales drop, you hire people like economists to figure out how to fix that. If demand exceeds supply, perhaps you raise prices, regardless of the actual cost.

      Another example in the categories of goods model: right now I'm in the market for some speakers. They can get pretty expensive. Do I actually think that $10,000 speaker cost 50x as much to make as the $200 speaker?

    10. Re:They should provide insurance? by willpall · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The record industry doesn't have an equivalent of movie theatres
      umm... no. A concert is more akin to a play than a movie. It can be given only in one place at a time and the number of venues is small. Think about it. A movie opens on 3000+ screens and runs for weeks while a concert is one night only, one place, maybe a total of 50 performances on a tour. Bad analogy!

      --
      Libertarian: label used by embarrassed Republicans, longing to be open about their greed, drug use and porn collections.
    11. Re:They should provide insurance? by evilviper · · Score: 2, Informative
      but it doesn't change the fact that only about 10% of CDs are profitable, while about 90% of Hollywood movies are.

      You are making a HUGE assumption: Cause and effect.

      First of all, I would dispute those numbers greatly, in no small part due to "creative accounting", but let's not worry about that for the moment. The main issue is: what would improve CD's profitiablity? It is quite likely that lowering the prices on their CDs, would make them significantly more profitable, and in-turn fix those numbers to be more in-line with the MPAA's.

      The reason I am so suspicious of that, is that CDs don't show any signs of market effects... If a Movie isn't profitable, you will see that DVD selling for much much less. If a CD isn't profitable, the price still won't change, which is a very strong sign of a monopoly, not a free-market.

      They can pretty gaurntee what the opening boxoffice will be based on the amount and type of promotion put into it.

      First of all, that has been changing recently. The MPAA has expressed how concerned they are about technology, undermining their advertising efforts. When you can look-up numerous reviews instantly, and get instant messages from your friends, telling you the new movie is bad, advertising breaks down.

      Secondly, there is a major inequality. Saying that advertising for the RIAA isn't as successful as for the MPAA, is pure guess-work, because the RIAA does not, nor has it ever, advertised at the level the MPAA does. I've seen commercials for "The Matrix: Revolutions" maybe 12 dozen times over the past few weeks. In total, I don't believe I've seen that many commercials for any CDs, period. There is just no main-stream advertising by the RIAA at all. The advertising they get is either luck, or through the hard work of the artists, and none of it is commercial in nature, as with the MPAA's commercials on network TV. You say the RIAA's advertising has failed, but they haven't even tried.

      the RIAA has no idea if Eminem's next record will sell well or not

      You get a few people from the general public that listen to that genre of music, and I guarantee that their opinions will match the rest of the public perfectly. The same goes for the MPAA, but they put out plenty of junk anyhow.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  5. Better still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pass legislation establishing a breif hunting season on lawyers representing trade associations.

    1. Re:Better still... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Release all music under a Creative Commons license, sell stuff by public ransom if you become popular, and own all your own music rights. Instead of Marketing owning the musician, the popular musician could hire Marketing on commission when they've already got a hit, and sell rights to commercial interests. Sounds pretty good to me.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  6. That was about as clear as mud...... by herrvinny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Such a system might, for example, reimburse listeners for a certain amount of music that they find unsatisfactory with cash, free music, or music vouchers.

    How does one define "unsatisfactory" with music? Kind of complicated to measure.

    File sharing is not simply theft.

    Correct. It is not theft, it is copyright infringement, a civil issue. You can't go to jail over it, but you can over theft.

    In an extreme case, the labels might begin to impose costs beyond the actual search and production costs for which listeners are actually interesting in paying just to feed the bottom line. That is exactly what the recording industry did well before file sharing existed. The result? Alienated and disgruntled customers.

    And the industry continues to do so. It hasn't reduced prices since CDs came into existence, which is at least curious, since the cost of pressing those CDs must have dropped through the floor since then.

    1. Re:That was about as clear as mud...... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Correct. It is not theft, it is copyright infringement, a civil issue. You can't go to jail over it, but you can over theft.

      You most certainly can go to jail for copyright infringement, if you live in the U.S.:

      http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/17-18red. htm

      ~~~

  7. Double - moral hazard? by jea6 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also known as damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
  8. Filesharing by SisyphusShrugged · · Score: 4, Funny

    The truth of the matter is, I feel no qualms whatsoever for downloading musical files (actually I probably dont listen to any label that is part of the RIAA anyway)

    This is the crux of the problem, although they have scared the P2P Kazaa kiddies off with the RIAA's actions that has done nothing but make the P2P more well run and it is now the dominion of ./ers with super high speed connections sharing high quality files.

    An analagous situation can be seen with the "War on Drugs", all it has done is improve the quality of the drugs being used!

  9. Morals? by tinrobot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Moral Hazard implies that the record companies have morals.

    They don't.

  10. Errr... ummm... by pr0ntab · · Score: 3, Insightful

    risk sharing isn't supposed to scare you into doing anything. It's supposed to explain why you feel compelled to spend time searching for and downloading music on the Internet.

    You don't trust the record companies or agree with their price structure. So you go around them... betting that your time is worth less than the extra money you're spending for the "service" of the record companies packaging and delivering it to you.

    He's basically saying if the record companies stopped being such tight-asses and gave you the benefit of the doubt, or cut listeners some slack with well-thought-out services, then it wouldn't be an issue (duh).

    --
    Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
  11. not a brand identity by Kilka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What if, for business reasons, the labels are more interested in their own economies of scale and brand identity than providing listeners with music they value?
    I don't think the music labels are big on making themselves a brand identity. Aside from text in music videos, and small icons on cds, they are not recognizable to most. A brand identity implies that everyone knows the brand, even if they have never used the product. Coke can be classified in this way, since it is one of the most recognizable logos around. -Kilka

    --
    If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -Chomsky
    1. Re:not a brand identity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Brittney Spears is a brand. Justin Timberlake is a brand. 50 Cent, P-Diddy (Sean John), Christina skankulara, they're all brands. You watch their videos, you listen to their music, and you know what you're getting, everytime. No suprises on Brittney's new album, right? It's the same recognizable bland crap over and over agan. That's what a brand is. Just like Micky D's or Coke.

    2. Re:not a brand identity by kookbox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think the music labels are big on making themselves a brand identity.

      That might be the case for bigger labels (Motown ain't what it used to be), but most small labels (many of which have deals with bigger companies) are big on creating that identity.

      Def Jux. Kill Rock Stars. Blue Note. Ninja Tune. Invisible. Fat Possum. Tooth & Nail. Trojan. Moon. Death Row. Every one of these labels has a very distinct brand identity, and, as a result, devotees generally have a very good idea what they're getting.

  12. Morality? Please... by jmalm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The author seems to be implying that people will change their habits, either by choice or by legislation, based upon an obligation to the artist or recording label. With something so abstract, the cited economic principles don't necessarily apply here -- the good can be replicated at almost zero cost, unlike stealing something else such as a lemon from your local grocer for example.

    In the case of stealing from the grocer, morality is somewhat different because the lemon pool you are drawing from is finite and depletes the supply. But copying a bunch of data to your 120G hard drive that is only utilised to 20% has no perceived cost and does not deplete any one else's resource.

    The issue is more complicated than what is stated, and the equalisation schemes suggested do not take away from the fact that downloading a piece of data has almost no variable cost. Do economics work when 0 is in the denominator?

    1. Re:Morality? Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Chimps have an idea of fair play and become upset when it is unbalanced. As do we. In fact it's not unheard of for members of our species to kill others in response to that imbalance.

      The vast majority of people pay the bakers for their bread, not because they'll be caught if they don't but because it is right to do so.

      There's an intuitive idea of ownership deeply ingrained in us. Some ideas, like we all own the jungle together, and we'll let you use this part of the jungle for a while, to the benefit of us all are part of that. We delegate our authority. And when entities like the RIAA, MPAA et al shirk or resist their obligations, or try to change them after the fact via copyright extentions etc, we keep that tally. Music sharing, movie downloading, it's an expression of the broken pact they made with us. We are many, they are few. In the final tally, that combined with the fact people will kill to address inequity, really should be something for them to think about.

    2. Re:Morality? Please... by TMLink · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not $0. It's the cost of the recording itself. While on a different scale than the lemon (each lemon costs something to make, where as the recording's cost doesn't increase with each copy passed along), it's still a cost. And we're gonna have to have a balance somewhere.

      Maybe they'll have to find a cost that both consumers and bands can agree on to prove that the recording is worth it. Maybe recordings will go by the wayside completely. Maybe recordings will only be done during live shows. Maybe recordings will be done at lower costs (and probably lower production standards as a result) to be used as promos, instead of something to sell.

      No matter what, if the bands can't find a way to recoup the costs of recording the music, they won't record.

      --
      Every time a guy gets a threesome, somewhere in heaven an angel gets his wings. --Cary Tennis
    3. Re:Morality? Please... by Yartrebo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, economics do work when zero is in the denominator, and they don't paint a pretty picture for the music industry.

      Let's go through core numbers for the capitalist model (the one they teach you in school), which is that maximum efficiency is when marginal price (MP) equals marginal cost (MC).

      MP=MC occurs when price = $0, since marginal cost is $0.

      What this means is that the music industry is most efficient for our country at price = $0. Unlike most other goods, having a gluttonous appetite for music doesn't cost our society any resources, be they labor or raw materials.

      This does leave the issue of paying for the capital costs (recording the original songs), which must be paid somehow. Forturnately, they're small, and fame, non-CD revenues (concerts), and the fact that many musicians aren't in it for the money will keep capital production (ie., song writing and recording) humming along. The record companies should be restructed into recording-only companies that charge a flat fee for the use of their equipment, a little like a car rental, since that is the only useful service that they provide.

      So basic economic theory does hold when the cost and price are zero, and the remedy that it suggests is some free trade in the form of repealing copyright law, since copyright law is what perturbs the market and keeps it from coming to its equilibrium and optimal price of $0.

  13. Re:Double Moral Weight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not trying to slam on you, but you didn't read either of the articles so set yourself up. You don't understand the principal agent problem or what he means by moral hazard. When economists talk about moral hazard, they're speaking of incentives, not about going to hell. And risk sharing in this manifestation is something you're supposed to like--it upsets the labels not consumers.

    The problem is with the way we buy music, but have no ability to return it if it sucks. So the music industry has no incentive to make the product satisfactory, so long as they can find a way to get us to buy it (albeit making the song good is a good way to make us buy it). So music pirates' response to this is a form of risk sharing--We diversify the risk of a song sucking over everyone who downloads it. Because we have pooled our resources and invested less in any one product, we have less unique risk (from bad mp3s). It's not a very good analogy, but it makes some sense.

  14. Contract. by BrookHarty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the Article.
    Is there a way out of this mess? Can the record industry offer it's own insurance, so listeners do not have to file share? Can it do so without creating a double moral hazard? Yes - by shifting to a more sophisticated contract.

    I'd rather just get the RIAA out of the distribution side of music, they don't belong on this side of the fence. With the RIAA trying to control the distribution channels, they just strangle new technologies and screw the artists who they supposedly support.

    With Senator Orrin Hatch the riaa whore and Corporate Elected Criminal is just trying his damnest to go after these p2p users, using piracy as an escape goat to mask the problem that only concerns the RIAA. Control of distribution.

    iTunes and Napster2 already show people will buy music online. Just need to get more Indie/Alternative music available, which even cuts more into RIAA funds.

    1. Re:Contract. by stubear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How is this fucking insightful? Jesus, the mods are morons.

      The RIAA is NOT in the distribution business, they are in the association business, hence Recording Industry Association of America. They represent the rights and needs of their members. Whether or not record labels go to digital distribution of music or not is not up to the RIAA, it is up to each individual member company.

      Simply put, copyright protects five basic rights of the holder. One of those basic rights is distribution. Whether you call file sharing stealing or not, it still violates creators rights by denying them the ability to control distribution. In the case of the RIAA member companies, many creators have signed the distribution rights to their mechanicals over to the record labels. This means the record labels (the RIAA member companies) can distribute and sell the actual physical recordings. In many cases the creator still maintains the publishing rights which means they can sell the right to transcribe sheet music and allow alternate arrangements to be made.

      The point is, file sharing might be sharing and not stealing but it is still distribution of intellectual property and it is illegal without a prior consent of the copyright holder, period. Whether people will or will not purchase music online is irrelevant because it is up to the copyright holder to determine how they will distrute music. If a few small musicians make a killing at this method of distribution, great, but not every artist has to follow their lead.

      Personally I'd rather purchase the CD and rip the music however I choose. I hate MP3s and tend to not like listening to music on my computer anyway. I've taken some CDs to work and ripped them to my computer there but this is within my rights, in the US, under fair use. I'm not happy with compressed audio files and if I must listen to them I want to be able to control how they are made.

  15. this has gone far enough by maximilln · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even though it's becoming intolerable, it's not the whining of the music industry that bothers me most.

    What bothers me most is that premiums on automobile, homeowners, life, and health insurance are going to be steadily raised to cover the losing business investment in recording insurance.

    No matter which way this goes the consumer will end up paying from both ends and the pyramid will continually funnel the money upwards.

    --
    +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  16. Re:Double Moral Weight by mandalayx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is bullcrap. If I don't care and feel no moral object to downloading music, why would 'risk-sharing' upset me. I don't even know what risk sharing is!

    The moral impact of downloading music for me is ZERO, in spite of what some MBA monkey tells me. 'Risk sharing' isn't going to scare me into sharing less.


    I understand the author cites Risk Sharing as a primary reason why people aren't buying music. Read the article, and you can see some definite implications of record companies' misjudgements.

    The author claims that the reason why people aren't buying music is that because they don't know whether it is any good. This risk, the risk that the music you just bought for $18 totally sucks, is the risk he talks about.

    When he says that people are mitigating risk via file-sharing (i.e. risk-sharing) he implies that by one person buying the cd (or taking some other cost to self, including risk of legal action) and distributing it to others, then others get to "try" the music without risk.

    Of course, this brings up the fundamental problem which I believe lies within--Are people willing to pay for music? Currently Steve Jobs and others are trying to prove their particular answer.

  17. Moral Hazard (was Re:Morals?) by peeping_Thomist · · Score: 4, Informative

    "moral" here is being used in the sense it is used in "moral certainty". The contrast in both cases isn't moral as opposed to immoral, but moral/practical as opposed to theoretical. A moral certainty is a practical certainty, a certainty great enough for to determine one's action, but not enough for a mathematical demonstration. A moral hazard is a practical danger, that is, one's action puts one in danger.

    It's just how academics talk.

    --
    Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
  18. Fair beats free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I like having the CD. I like having the case, the nice ink on the disc, the booklet, the extras like Daft Punks download offers.

    When I do download off the net, it is not infrequently followed by purchases at a store somewhere. Maybe the same songs, maybe the same artist, mabey different mixes. Stuff like VS tracks I haven't been able to find retail, certainly not in compilations.

    But again, it's not a suprise to me. I first heard both TMBG and BNL off of boarrowed cassette copies. Eventually I was able to barrow a copy of Apollo 18, now I own something in the neighborhood of 20 TMBG cds have gone to concerts and lament the fact I didn't get to grow up listening to them. BNL, the story isn't too different, aside from the lower album count. I bought the Saturday Morning Cartoon CD, because it has a song called Speed Racer on it, and I thought MAYBE it'd be Go Speed Go by Alpha Team. It wasn't but the CD didn't suck either.

    Which ties nicely into the article sparking this thread. I pay the distributers to find the music I want to listen to. There job is to search for me. And they failed miserably with Go Speed Go. It was a hard song to find. I spent a lot of time looking. So what exactly AM I paying them for in that case? It certainly could have been harder, but it could have been much easier too. The stuff I want is getting lost in the stuff they're telling me to want. As I suspect happens with almost everyone who's not 13 to 15.

    So how to I redress that imbalance? I share, I download. If it's something I really want, I buy. Not only do I take on the responsability of searching for myself, since they've abandond me despite my willingness to spend money, and I punish them for not keeping their part of the deal. I download stuff I think friends might like. I share copies I decided I don't like to improve network availability for those who do like them. And the random good song from the people who produce one decent song, and nothing else but crap, I just keep. It's my tax on them.

    When they decide to live up to their part of the bargain, I'll consider revisiting mine. They better hope I don't get too set in my ways. Habbits are hard to break.

  19. A big fucking factory by t_allardyce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The business model works like this:

    1. Create catchy sounding music by whatever means necessary, doesn't need to be original or high quality, just needs a hook.

    2. Play it on the radio and tv, push the musicians into the public eye with advertising

    3. Clubs, shops, other tv/radio stations etc will start playing the song because everyone else is, at this point you have successfully made a 'hit'

    4. Sell, rake in profit

    After a set number of years a song will have left most peoples memories so it can be 're-released' using its original familiarity to create an instant hit, you must make sure that the re-release or re-mix has an extra underlaying beat or melody or is faster or louder so that the original pales in comparison and people will buy the new song, alternatively parts of the melody can be broken down and re-used as scrap - you will probably notice scrap melody in anything by Blue or Justin Timberlake and many others - it sounds like something you've heard before but you just cant put your finger on it.

    And remember the all time rule of the entertainment industry: If it worked the first time, do it another 10

    (Big Brother, PopStars, Making the Band, Generic boy/girl bands that all sound the same, teenage girls that all sound the same, Changing [rooms|places|clothes|wives], Im a celebrity [insert something here], The worlds worst x, something island x, Airport/Cruiseliner/Hospital/Cops)

    PS as a brit im really sorry for Popstars, but here we now have Fame Academy 2! its much worse and they dont even have that cool guy that tells everyone they're shit. I think we just finished Big Brother 3

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  20. double nonsense by danharan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So some guy that used to work for the World Bank wants to make a market more efficient. Surprised?

    Of course, as whirled bank types are wont to do, they might actually distort reality to make their models fit onto it.

    He recognizes early on that the labels are expected to "take on the risk of talent search, artist development, and distribution costs, in exchange for profits", but then only focuses on talent search.

    Downloading files from Kazaa is not doing the work of a talent scout: it is about getting stuff for free. Pretending it's about being a talent scout is laughable.

    Also, who's doing the work of artist development and music production (those mp3 are usually recorded in studios...)? The problem is, the labels are often shirking those responsibilities too.

    I recognize that downloading copyrighted music is illegal. I also think it served a good purpose: CD prices have gone down - at least in Canada - and we are getting better legal ways of buying music.

    While his description of the problem stinks, this is a case of "moral hazard" if that's what you want to call it.

    His solution has some merit in that it might encourage labels to try developping unconventional artists (assuming most of the people that hear the songs decide to not ask their money back, and that this type of contract makes them more likely to try new things).

    OR - You could of course just provide free music- radio is after all one way to do that, and all the label types know that radio play sells albums.

    We don't need new contracts so much as new business models. Keep providing free music, since that works. Also take advantage of new distribution (bye bye music stores with underpaid staff, hello iTunes).

    And use all this to promote live music. Since it's easy to keep track of what people buy, you can tell them when their favorite bands are playing near them. Is this so complicated?

    Of course, this type of arrangement might be the death knell for large labels... in a market like this, you could arrange to have smaller regional players.

    Umair Haque's proposal seems custom-designed to evade most of the issues, and keep the big labels alive. I'm not so interested: they've proven to be companies that don't care about art or artists, and are willing to gouge consumers. Enough!

    --
    Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
    1. Re:double nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hi,

      I'm the author. Thanks for discussing my piece. Here are some points to consider.

      1) Moral hazard does not mean the record industry has 'morals'. It's a technical term - like grep, or chmod. It means that one party in a contract can take hidden action - like your babysitter - because you can't effectively monitor or influence them.

      2) I'm arguing that the record industry should provide free music - not the other way around. Insurance is just another form of free music - whether you get reimbursed in money that you can spend on free music, or free MP3's, or free music vouchers.

      3) An efficient market is not a monopoly. An efficient market for music is what all of us really want: a place where we can pay as much for music as the value we derive from it. The problem we're all facing is that the market for music is inefficient - that the music industry can price-fix, gouge, shirk on it's contract, and earn more profits by exploiting such tactics.

      4) I'm not 'trying to give control to the RIAA'. In fact, it's the other way around. Read what DVD Jon has to say about buying into DRM - iTunes is nice, but by buying into it, you're also buying into DRM. I'm trying to argue that DRM sucks - and that entirely new business models are the only thing that will work - and iTunes is just the same old model wrapped in a nice interface. I'm trying to prove why the RIAA wants the game to stay the same - so it can keep selling the same old risky contract to all of us, in exchange for greater profits.

      4.1) Not all MBA's are beancounters. Get over it.

      Umair

    2. Re:double nonsense by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [Hey, if you're the author, why are you posting as an anonymous coward?]

      Yeah, weird. I mean, all the other World Bank emeritus economists have Slashdot accounts...

      (But seriously, Slashcode would be improved if people directly mentioned in an accepted story were auto-emailed special passwords they can use to post comments about their story with a a +2 "Primary Source" bonus)

  21. Zero dollar economics by SolemnDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I won't speak to the moral issue. What i do have to offer is the thought that the dollar value goes to zero, but the perceived value doesn't. THat's because there's a shift from tangible assets to intangible assets happening.

    When the dollar amount goes to zero, you evaluate a choice by how it affects your perception of yourself, and how it affects the possibility of future tangible assets. In this case, yes, the dollar cost to the consumer is near zero. However... there is a perceived dollar benefit (not having to buy the music) plus a perceived moral benefit, because the RIAA has been acting like the bad guy. The RIAA has been trying to counter this by upping the dollar cost (suing) rather than upping the intangible benefits. If they dropped the dollar cost, this would up the perceived moral value of keeping the RIAA afloat. But because they've become accustomed to dollars-only economic measures, they aren't likely to get this soon.

    The other major factor here is that customers aren't just ditching the dollar cost- they are choosing to offer it more directly to the producers (in the goods sense, the producers mean the musicians and the small labels bringing them to market.) People aren't just ditching music. They're trading and sharing- and many are contnuing to spend, just in ways that don't benefit the RIAA. So the perceived-intangible-value really is getting a field demonstration.

  22. Free does not always win by santos_douglas · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There are countless cases where individuals choose to pay for an item/service that they could otherwise get for free. Some other posters have hinted at it but not come out and said so quite so explicitly - the determinant is the time/difficulty involved with the free vs the paid, even when there is no question of legality.

    Music, video, and software are all obvious examples. Why buy music one can record from the radio virtually free? Largely because its a hassle and takes time. Why go to the movies or rent a DVD when you can just wait for it to come out on TV? Again, time spent watching commercials and the inconvenience of scheduling are worth more than the few bucks. Why pay the M$ tax when you can just download linux for free? Because it takes time to both do it and acquire some technical knowledge.

  23. I'd Like to see that .... by Grizzlysmit · · Score: 4, Funny
    If the industry offered consumers the ability to simply return any music they did not like, consumers might return all of their music - even the music they did like - after having copied or consumed it. It would be as though restaurants offered money back guarantees you could exercise after having eaten your entire meal and you claimed you were dissatisfied.

    hmmm ... restaurants that had a return policy on food after eaten ... hmmmm fully proccessed or partial ... on second thoughts I don't want to know or see that!!

    --
    in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
    Francis Smit
  24. Re:Double Moral Weight by evilviper · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, no, no. "Moral Hazard" has nothing at all to do with morality. In fact, it has to do with exactly what it discussed all the time here: Giving the record companies incentive to do what the public wants, while not giving the public too many rights, and allowing the public to bankrupt them when they are doing their job.

    Read the damn article.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  25. There's an easier way to solve all this by Grizzlysmit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Drop prices, sell say 3 or 4 cds for $10.00, thats how I buy a lot of books, if I want to test drive new authors etc, go to the supermart, or shop that sell the end of run/failed stuff, at 3 or 4 for $10.00 I can be confident I buy at least one that I would have paid >= $10.00 for. The recording industry have priced themselves out of the game, and there too dumb to see it.

    --
    in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
    Francis Smit
  26. They left something out by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Interesting
    On the label contract side they've reduced their risk to near zero by charging back development and promotional costs to the artist. Even a successful artist ends up getting jack from CD sales. The big media companies have been dicking the principles on both sides of the contract going on 50 years now. Is it really any surprise they fight like hell for survival? None of the big labels want to see that gravy train reach the end of the line. It's easy money. Fat City.

    But their efforts in Congress and the courts are useless. They're just breeding smarter file sharers. Especially those in the technology business, people who have maybe worked on projects together over the years. A group of friends who exchange playlists the old fashioned way: ASCII text. They can swap songs and entire CD's in compressed, encrypted formats because we- I mean they -don't make their collections available to the public and know enough about transfer protocols to make detection damn difficult. Or maybe they snail mail CD's, thumb drives or USB hard drives for the really big jobs.

    As usual the bullies pick on those least able to defend themselves.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  27. Record Labels are Obsolete by TheSpoom · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article talke about how customers can now simply go out and find their own music on the net, rather than rely on a brand to determine what is good music so they can sign them. Does anyone else think that that basically says it all? Labels are obsolete in their current form. What services do they provide, exactly?

    CD stamping? Cost has become so cheap that it's hardly part of the equation.

    Promotion? I suppose, but at the cost of an artist's livelihood. In effect, the artist is paying for it anyway, so they could just hire an advertising firm and be done with it.

    Talent selection? OK, if this were the case, would we not all be listening to at least a portion of the top 50 most of the time? Why is it then that many artists that aren't signed to a major label become cult phenomenons on the internet?

    Places like Magnatune try to advance the definition of the record label to something more useful, and I sincerely hope they succeed. But to the rest of the labels, my message would be simply evolve or die. Because if you don't evolve, you're simply not going to get my money one way or the other.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
  28. IMHO a coinfusing and unconvincing argument by rcastro0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To pick a few points:

    (...) There is no monitoring mechanism, so listeners cannot tell what the labels are doing; conversely, labels cannot really tell what listeners' preferences are.

    To start, of course labels can tell what listeners' preferences are:
    1) Focus Groups/Market research
    2) Sales Charts
    3) Payolla effectiveness

    On the other hand, listeners do not know less about what labels are doing than, say, drivers do about what automakers are doing. In both cases the final output offered to consumers is the monitoring mechanism.

    In an extreme case, the labels might begin to impose costs beyond the actual search and production costs for which listeners are actually interested in paying (...)

    And, in any case, how might they not ? For any price above zero there are always listeners for whom the price is "beyond what listener is interested in paying".

    The problem is compounded because music is an experience good - its value is not directly knowable to buyers until they have begun to consume it.

    I can hardly think of a good more experienced before purchase than music. Even before napster. Its not like looking at a brochure for a caribbean cruise.

    (...) it is important to note that the mechanism used should make strategic sense, (...) for example, reimburse listeners for a certain amount of music that they find unsatisfactory with cash, free music, or music vouchers.

    Strategic sense ? Does this article sound like a consumer advocate making believe that what is good for the consumer is automatically good for profit oriented corporations ?

    --
    Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
  29. They forgot to mention radio by rollingcalf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The increasing consolidation of control of radio stations is another factor that has contributed to the economic "moral hazard". With behemoths like ClearChannel controlling a large chunk of the radio market, the local DJs who know about what their listeners want have less freedom to decide what to play. As a result, what they play more reflects who the RIAA execs have decided will be their next thing (or yet another album from the last big thing), instead of reflecting what listeners want. So we have the same songs by the same artists being played over and over and over again.

    The current arrangement with the media conglomerates and the airwaves hurts both the public's ability to find out what is good music and the propensity of the producers to find out what the people want. They are more concerned with pushing a predetermined set of artists who they deem shall be successful, than they are with finding out what people like. So people will turn to file-sharing where they can find lots of good music that they would never hear on the radio.

    --
    ---------
    There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
  30. More than consumer/artist involved by randall_burns · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The big issue I had with this article:

    The author assumed that media companies mediate between consumers and artists. Another major factor is that media corporations mediate between both consumers and artists and government. The very existance of copyright laws is a mechanism created by government. Other societies have sometimes used other mechanisms to fund the arts-for example in the old Soviet Union, artists received a stipend from the state. In the 1700's, artists such as Mozart would sometimes find patronage from members of the nobility.


    The copyright laws in the United States today go substantially beyond the mechanisms first mandated by the constitution--the concept of "limited time" for Copyrights is getting streched. I personally don't think the Founding Fathers really meant for Copyright to be such a big part of people's lives. Had they understood how information technology would evolve, I think they'd have wanted a substantial mechanism for funding freely available educational and cultural material--just as much as they wanted infrastructure like roads and bridges.


    Instead, what we have now are major media monopolies that actively work to get greater concessions from government and media companies that are major recipients of corporate welfare.

  31. One problem: The artist still gets screwed. by StormShadw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I agree with most of what the author has to say, I think there is one component of the problem that is being overlooked. The artist (aka the manufacturer of the goods found by the agent) is still getting screwed. While insurance or contractual obligations related to the quality of the product may make the principal more satisfied, the manufacturer is still getting very little profit.

    As a result, I don't think fixing the distribution side of the problem is enough. The agents in this equation can serve a useful purpose - finding quality music and providing it to the masses - but they need to do it fairly. This is only recently the case; as the author points out, file-sharing has enabled the current situation. Now that iTunes and the likes are beginning to show that direct distribution can work, I think the record labels need to get back into going about their business legitately. That means finding music that really is of decent quality, knowing what consumers actually want to listen to, paying a decent price to the musicians and charging a fair price to the consumer.

    Sure, I can go out and browse music online in hopes that I'll find something I like. And, when I have time, I probably will. But when I don't have time, I'd like to know that the people who are being paid to take care of that for me are actually doing their jobs.

  32. Bovine manure by melted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People buy music for 99 cents a track for three primary reasons:
    1. Because it's cool
    2. Because they're afraid of RIAA subpoenas
    3. Because they're too dumb to run a filesharing program

    That's it. Myself, I don't think compressed music is worth 90% of the price of uncompressed music, especially considering the fact I don't get the original artwork. I've bought a couple of tracks on iTunes, though - the ones I couldn't find on CDs. For everything else I use Half.com.

    1. Re:Bovine manure by Raffaello · · Score: 4, Insightful

      4. Because they're honest.

      Hard to believe, but there are a whole bunch of honest people still out there. If there weren't, who would all the dirtbags rip off?

    2. Re:Bovine manure by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Hard to believe, but there are a whole bunch of honest people still out there. If there weren't, who would all the dirtbags rip off?

      The idiots, the morons, the feeble of mind? (I don't think, for example, Nigerian scammers primarily rip off the honest people, but they're still definately dirtbags.)
  33. Bzzt. by PetWolverine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not exactly qualified to pick bones with this guy on matters of economics, but I have to, because he's completely wrong.

    He says that music pricing needs to vary in order to convey information to customers about what they're getting. But the value of music isn't intrinsic to the music. What I may be willing to pay $1.25 for, you may only be willing to pay $.02 for. The fact that the RIAA has valued this particular song at a given price tells me nothing about its value to me. The complete inaccuracy of this detail of the article is borne out by the success of the iTMS in the face of various other services, such as buymusic.com, that have failed miserably despite variation in their pricing schemes.

    The idea of variation in pricing won't work because songs are not interchangeable. When I'm shopping for a piece of hardware, I might pass on, say, an iPod, because a cheaper device will do basically the same thing, and I'm willing to get a lower-quality device if I can pay less for it (actually I'm not, but that's another discussion). When I'm shopping for music, though, I'm not going to say, "Oh, that Dylan track is too expensive--I'll buy this Radiohead song instead." One song is not a replacement for another, or I wouldn't have 12,000 of them.

    The way to give customers information about what they're buying before they do so is not through pricing, in this case, but through recommendations. If I buy a zillion Dylan albums, several Simon & Garfunkel albums, a few Pink Floyd albums, and some Tom Petty albums, the iTMS should say, hey--maybe you'd like to try some Weezer. It should keep track of what I buy, how much I like it, and what I might like based on comparisons of my history to those of other users. Then, maybe I would use it a bit more. Instead, it's simply the first place I look when I have something specific in mind that I want to buy. If it made recommendations, Apple would be convincing me to buy music when I otherwise would not; instead, they're convincing me to buy music from them when I would buy music anyway, which is a lot less effective.

    --
    I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
  34. Some Tools for Thought... by dyoo78 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Fundamentally, I'm going to argue that consumers download music, as much to derive extra value from getting something for free, as they do because they want insurance against buying something they didn't want in the first place. File-sharing is as much about risk-sharing as it is about the 'theft' of value."

    The article addresses market failure through the lense of information asymmetries, moral hazard and agency costs. These explainations are classic economic (Ronald Coase) explainations of why there is a failure in the music market. Yet, the fundamental argument of this paper - that double moral hazard and information assymetries cause market failure in the music industry - misses the fundamental point of market failures in ALL information markets(software, music, art, books, etc).

    Information goods resemble public goods. Consider the three tenet assumptions in properly functioning markets. The assumptions are 1) that the good is rivalrous, 2) that the good is excludable, 3) that there is full information when purchasing the good. Combinations of these three assumptions results in various types of goods, which require different economic models to solve. For instance, if the good is non-rival or non-excludable, the good is considered a public good. Some examples of public goods are public parks, the sun, air, etc. These types of goods are non-rival because your consumption doesn't deplete the good such from other users/consumers. Likewise, these goods are non-excludable because it is very hard to put a fence around it, and hence, rationing such good by a price mechanism.

    Now, consider information goods in this sense. Information goods resemble public goods because they are non-rival and non-excludable. My consuming the information doesn't deplete the good and prevent others from using it and excluding others from consuming information (putting a fence around information) is very difficult. The fundamental problem within the music market is that we have a market failure from the start precisely because music is 1) non-rival 2) non-excludable.

    The author tells us a story about the music market needing risk insurance, yet fails to consider the very notion of economic exchange in information goods. The problem with music is this. Consumers want music and indicate their preference for music by voting with their dollars. Yet, when the marginal cost of distributing the good is nil, and those that shouldn't be excluded from the market are being excluded, we have a problem. When you want to reward creators of music, and not exclude anyone from the market without specific reason, what is the right price you should sell your music?

    I agree that there are problems with value indicators, (i.e. price of all music is the same ($12) and consumers can't reward music creators based on societal value), but I still see some fundamental flaws in his argument.

    So who's working on the economic problem of information goods? Enter Suzzan Scotchmer, Brad Delong, John Zysman, Steve Weber, and Hal Varian.

    These people are all Berkeley professors who discuss micro/macro level frameworks that give us tools for thought in information markets. There is an academic revolution going on at Berkeley and I'm very thankful, I am here to witness it. ;)

    For your reference, I am an undergraduate at UC Berkeley and have studied information economics for some time now. More information about me can be found here: www.dyoo.tk

  35. It depends on the label's services. by Simple+Simian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of the things I miss about the glory days of Napster was being able to look at the entire list that someone had shared. Currently you can really only look for what you're already looking for and can't easily find new music. Let alone find something you really like. It's free, but not ideal by any means.

    One summary of the article is simply "selling individual tracks alone won't cut it." Selling individual tracks at a reasonable price with guaranteed quality and availability is not enough.

    If they can introduce listeners to music they may like but do not yet own, then they will succeed. If not... ...well... ...could it really get any worse?

    --
    Rule #1, people are stupid. There are no exceptions.
  36. Legality by t0ny · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Ive always been curious about something, but since I was never interested in the whole MP3 thing, I never looked into it.

    If you already own the music, is it legal to get MP3's of that music off the internet?

    In my case, it would be a collection of around 100 tapes (not CDs, but tapes). The tapes still work, but obviously it isnt the most convient media format. Would it be legal to just get higher quality files of that music? Or is their contention that you dont own a license to the music, but are tied to whatever media you purchased it on? Im sure this runs into what boundaries there are for 'fair use', but IANAL.

    --

    Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

    1. Re:Legality by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The industry's position is that you bought the media along with a license to view the content which is tied to that media. A strict interpretation of "fair-use" is that you have a right to make personal copies things on your own media, and you are allowed to publish portions or derivatives of works as part of a criticism, satire, etc.

      --

      In Soviet America the banks rob you!
  37. The reson this is all a load of crap by SiliconJesus101 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The bottom line is that people like to get shit for free. No matter what the recording labels do people are still going to download the music free because....well....it's available!

    It gets pretty tiresome to see all of the "analysts" posting why they think P2P apps are popular when the real truth of the matter is that humans as a species will choose the free route to obtaining goods and/or services whenever possible. Hell, even those that know that what they are doing is wrong will still download the music for free. It's not "really" illegal if you don't get caught and you are only hurting a big mega monopoly and not some poor individual.

    Sure, services like iTunes are selling tons of music, but I would wager my services as a fluffer for the gay porn industry that the iTunes buyers are the same people that have bought music legitimately all along and the "Napster" thieves will never buy music no matter how cheap it is as long as it's available for free elsewhere!

    --

    "The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
    -Thucydides

  38. WATER!!! by Newer+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Water is the best example I can think of. It's available out of the tap for virtually free, and the free stuff quenches your thirst just fine! Yet, the bottled water industry is worth BILLIONS! Why? Several factors. One is convenience. Bottled water can be taken along, easily refrigerated, etc. Second is taste. Whether it be true or not, the PERCEPTION is that if you pay for water it must taste BETTER!! Third is purity. Though city water must meet strict purity standards, people believe that bottled water is better, even when it's tap water that's simply been filtered again. Fourth is flavor. Though people can put their own lemon juice into tap water for a nickel, they still happily pay over a buck for a quart of water with: 'essence of lemon'. Fifth is style. People perceive certain bottled waters with 'cool'. Look at Perrier. Or Pellegrino. It sells for three bucks a quart bottle. Tap water is for mixing with scotch. Perrier and lime are for drinking INSTEAD of scotch! The reason water makes so much money is because the bottled water industry created the need and then fufilled it. They didn't do it by calling their customers idiots for drinking tap water, They did it by telling their potential customers that drinking bottled water is the SMART, COOL thing to do! They created PERCEIVED VALUE for their product. The RIAA does just the opposite. They call their customers crooks and swindlers. They foist crap music upon them. The container they put their product into hasn't changed in a quarter century even though there's a HUGE demand for a smaller, more convenient one. Then they wonder why people are drinking 'tap water' from kazaa. There's no reason why the bottled water example can't be used for selling music. The record companies just need to buy a clue...and a big bottle of Perrier to drink it down with!

  39. A real solution, ASCAP and the RIAA by oakbox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I worked at a radio station many moons ago, we would occasionally go through an ASCAP audit. Basically, the radio station carefully logs every song played on the air for a specific time period and then uses this playlist (along with other radio stations' playlists from around the USA) to allocate payments between its member composers. The radio station (and any venue that plays music, including restaurants, bars, etc) pay a yearly ASCAP fee.

    Why doesn't the RIAA offer something like this as well? We, as consumers, have the option of coughing up 10 bucks a year for a blanket licensing agreement. With this license, a consumer can swap and trade files to their heart's content and the RIAA could keep track of which files are being traded the most online to allocate how that pool of license fees should be divided among its constituents.

    Maybe it isn't the RIAA, but some new organization that handles the royalty pool. I'm just pointing to the most visible blanket representative of the music recording industry.

    The New Licensing Agency would provide feedback to artists and recording companies about what songs are hot on the internet among file sharing services. The recording companies have an incentive to bring good music to market and to PROMOTE that music because that brings them a greater share of the license fees. Consumers purchase protection from the spot raids and outrageous legal actions we have seen in the past. The NLA would be open to even the smallest music distributor. If you are good at online marketing and can steer downloaders toward copies of your music, you get paid.

    This gets rid of all the DRM craziness. I'd fork over 30 bucks (which is about double what I spend on CD's in a year) a year to have unlimited file sharing ability.

    Imagine a return to the halcyon days of original Napster but without the legal risks. Servers that were fast, reliable, and (relatively) trustworthy. Nirvana for all.

    I'm really interested in seeing if you can see any holes in this argument, I would love to read them.
    -oakbox

    --
    Not just answers, the correct questions.
  40. Bad Economic Analysis (long) by tabdelgawad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Casting the relationship between consumers and record labels as a principal-agent problem with moral hazard is both incorrect and completely misses the point. The author seems to be aware that asymmetric information between principal and agent is necessary for moral hazard to exist, but the asymmetries the author points out are either not unique to the music industry or just plain wrong. let me explain.

    The author asks "So what if, under such a contract, the interests of the record labels (the agent) diverge from the interests of the listeners (the principal)?" Well duh! *Any* industry can be thought of in an asymmetric information principal-agent context with respect to consumers (do you know exactly how every good and service you buy is produced?!), and their interests will trivially conflict (businesses maximize profit, consumers maximize their satisfaction). What's so special about the music industry here? How is the industry's attempt "to impose costs beyond the actual search and production costs for which listeners are actually interesting in paying just to feed the bottom line" different from *any* other for-profit business? Since when do consumers need to know the exact production costs of everything they buy for markets to function well?

    Furthermore, the reasons the author gives for the information asymmetries in the music industry are bogus. He claims that under uniform pricing schemes "prices do not serve their usual function of providing an informational feedback loop between labels and listeners". I suppose he never heard of 'sales figures' as an information feedback loop! The author claims that information problems are compounded because "music is an experience good - its value is not directly knowable to buyers until they have begun to consume it." True, but irrelevant! Most people have the opportunity to know more about the CD they buy before they buy it than they can know about most other goods they buy; they can listen to singles on the radio and TV, listen to 30-second samples of every song on sites like Amazon, listen to the whole album in the music store or even borrow the CD from a friend. If there's a problem, it's not that we don't know whether an album has crappy songs, it's that we're forced to buy the crappy ones with the one or two good ones that we like. It's *not* an information problem. Further, consumers need *not* "coordinate amongst themselves" to influence labels any more than they need to "coordinate amongst themselves" to influence any other manufacturer: sales and commercial success speak for themselves.

    What *is* unique about the music industry, the movie industry, the software industry and information goods in general is that the internet has transformed them into *pure public goods*, like, for example, national defense. There are two characteristics that define pure public goods: (1) their consumption is non-rival (my consumption of one unit does not affect the ability of anyone else to consume the good. Think of the effect on your neighbor's consumption of his music if you digitally copy one of his CDs, or his consumption of national defense if you increase your household consumption of it by having a baby, compared to the effect on his consumption if you drive away in his car) (2) their consumption is non-exclusive (you cannot prevent a newborn from 'consuming' national defense, and it's difficult or impossible to prevent people from copying information in the internet age, whereas it's possible for your neighbor to prevent you from using his car). Another way to think about pure public goods is that they have high fixed costs of production for the first unit and zero marginal costs of producing additional units.

    Pure public goods are a well-understood type of market failure (you'll see them discussed with 'externalities' in most Economics textbooks). The producers of information goods have attempted to solve this problem by making information goods 'exclusive' (a.k.a. DRM) which is sufficient to solve the market failure and eliminate the 'free-ri

    --
    Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
  41. One at a time might work by Frisky070802 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The Ninja project at UC Berkeley a few years ago had an interesting wrinkle on this. They had a music sharing system in which the music stored on disk could only be served to one person at a time, and then only if it was in the server's CD jukebox or a CDROM drive on a workstation. (This is how I recall it, but the link to the USITS paper talks about downloading a song only if the user has uploaded it, a different policy.) So it was a way to share actual CDs, but using compressed audio to make it feasible (many CDs playing at once even though the jukebox could only play one).

    I don't know if the music industry would accept this as fair use, but it would certainly seem reasonable, much like a library lending out a copy but only for the duration of a given play. Perhaps it's a model for a new "legal P2P music sharing network": register CDs, ensure they can be played but not copied (perhaps with trusted client software), and prevent simultaneous play.

    I'd sign up for that, and throw in my collection of maybe 1000 CDs.

    --
    Mencken had it right. So glad that's old news.
  42. risk: full previews is already the norm by rjnagle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is interesting analysis, and the idea of double moral hazard, insurance, etc is a good way of looking at the sociological problem.

    Actually, though, the article's writer doesn't seem to be aware that having an album streamed entirely over the net is becoming more the norm with every passing day. With that capability, consumers can make the purchasing decision without assuming much risk.

    The bigger problems seems to be that the consumer doesn't want to spend the time previewing so many songs. In other words, the "mental transaction costs" outweigh the supposed benefits of finding new stuff.

    I'm not saying that clearchannel radio is a good way to introduce consumers to new music. But it is an example of how consumers can have exposure to music without needing to expend mental transactions.

    There needs to be a painless way to learn about and listen to new music. One such, solution, iRATE radio continuously downloads mp3's and lets users choose which one to keep and adapts to user preferences (see my interview with the creator Anthony Jones ).

    I've already written a substantial essay advocating a voluntary compensation model for music (see sharethemusicday . )
    In addition to tipping, content aggregators like Universal can provide value by simplifying the task of managing music files, improving the download client and allowing users to create "share lists" that are easily accessible. I would gladly pay for that.

    If a content aggregator company could create a download client that simplified file management, allowing sharing of music lists and user recommendations and allowed for a tip jar, then everybody would be interested. Musicians could pay a small fee for music hosting (and maybe fan support like forums, web hosting, etc). They would do it if tipping became perceived as a reliable revenue source. Users could pay for the download client (plus access to updates). This kind of service would make money, satisfy fans who want unlimited downloads and satisfy musicians who want tips.

    --
    Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston