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Open Source Bill For Australian Capital Territory
leinad writes "An article in The Age newspaper claims the Australian Capital Territory is set to become the first jurisdiction in the country to adopt a bill which says that public bodies should, as far as practicable, consider the use of open source software when procuring computer software. (The Australian Capital Territory is the small territory/state of Australia in which Canberra, the capital of Australia, is located.)" Seems like requiring blueprints from contractors, to me.
the democrates are a bit of a joke in australia atm im supprised it passed
Well, glad to see some gov't has some ideas about open source development. Too bad the U.S. didn't come up with it. *sigh*
Requiring the blueprints for a building is important insofar as it is necessary to remodel the building in the future.
However, most operating systems do not require alteration at any level below the distributor. Users are actively discouraged from changing their systems. Changing the system means possibly breaking compatibility with other systems which leads to headaches down the road as the forks diverge.
OTOH, software is always in a state of flux. Government software is always being updated, and as long as the underlying OS doesn't change serious portings of the software do not need to take place. In the case of end-user software, it is important that the government have the software source code in hand so as to be able to contract out to companies as necessary to update it.
But OS software is different, in that it is less likely that a change needs to be made for the purposes of government work. COTS is the name of the game, and as long as the systems are standardized to some degree things are hunky dory. There is no need for source code in the case of an OS.
I have been pwned because my
isn't the bit about "considering open source wherever practical" which is easy to weasel around. I like this bit:-
The bill, which goes before the ACT Legislative Assembly tonight, also specifies that public bodies should not use software that does not comply with open standards or standards recognised by the ISO or software for which support or maintenance is provided only by an entity that has the right to exercise exclusive control over its sale or distribution.
That'll be the bit that gives most trouble to the beast of Redmond...
What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
Define maintenance.
I'm sure you'll find that Redmond will have no trouble satisfying this clause.
I have been pwned because my
Requiring open source is like requiring openly designed cars, electronic devices, etc... for the government business. It doesn't make sense and it is not the right way to promote open source. It is totally discriminatory and unfair. I would reject such an idea and will consider it an abuse of the government power against the free will of people.
Promoting open standards is another matter though, cause that really gives people the power to use whatever they want, be it open source or Microsoft software, it doesn't matter.
I'm working for a company whom I've convinced to give the whole "open source thing" a looksee.
This legislation means a lot to us - even though it doesn't cover the whole of the government, (as near as i can tell) it only applies to the ACT government.
We will now get a lot more interest in our services - and once we're in one government department, federal departments can't be that far away!
Exciting times.
I don't think it's open source. I think it's outsource. Sending all coding to India or China where the programmers are happy with peanut wages.
It is a territory. It is not a state. There is a difference.
The Australian Capital Territory is the small territory/state of Australia in which Canberra, the capital of Australia, is located.
Just like the Washington/Washington D.C. concept.
CLUG projects include samba and rsync, so they could be called a 'shining light' for the ACT.
According to The Australian, this is "part of a coordinated national approach by the Democrats, which has seen similar legislation introduced in South Australia and federally and under consideration in [New South Wales] (whose capitol is Sydney) - calls for government to "consider" the purchase of open source software in procurement plans." The article also mentions that "the original version of the bill would have required the ACT to 'prefer open source software' but that was of course neutered. Appearently in the last six months alone the ACT has spent $15 million Australian ($11 mil US) (Converter) on Microsoft software and support for the next three years.
Just another two cents from the Norm.
So go work for Red Hat. Open source is producing jobs at Red Hat. Technological improvements always destroy some jobs, but others appear to take their place.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
As a programmer this is a huge concern for me obviously. But in this case it's Australian government so they are interested in keeping as much of the money in Australia as possible.
:)
There was a great article in Australian Developer a few months ago explaining the economics of open source for (non US) governments and the way that supporting FOSS keeps more money in your country and improves your balance of trade.
This is not the case in America for obvious reasons
What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
Also, some people who used to be called 'programmers' in the .com era got found out, so 'programming' wages dropped for some.
Good news, hopefully we'll see some good work done there which inspires others to follow.
Other Aussie states might be slow in actually requiring consideration of OSS, but the ACT's work could build a collection of useful software and government IT people will gain experience with OSS alternatives. That can only help with adoption elsewhere.
Cthulhu loves you.
actually working for a government department that pretty much exculsively uses open source for our development projects i can say... it works... and pretty well too.
we are a small department, and without a large budget have managed to complete projects in a similar, if not smaller amount of time and that would have otherwise cost millions.
yes. millions
go figure.
"Yeah, Yeah, Yeah." - Lennon, McCartney
I'm not so sure it's just outsourcing. Open source creates a feeling that our work is worthless. Case in point: Linux, KDE, Samba, Apache - all excellent software that can replace software costing thousands of dollars per computer. Now the bean counters think that all software ought to be free - so they pay people less. It's a vicious cycle. Software is free, hardware is dirt cheap - so the computer operaters (a.k.a. programmers) should be paid next to nothing too. Don't dismiss this attitude as being rare - I openly hear management and clients talk in these terms. Programmers are a "dime a dozen", etc. Microsoft may be a monopoly and Sun Micro may be a bunch of non-market savvy morons, but the truth is they employ people and pay them well. How much longer will this be the case? Something's got to give - and unfortunately, I think it's us. Perhaps it's time to learn more about auto repair. All I can say that in this cut-throught environment if you see some of your peers slacking off - get them fired ASAP - it's your job or theirs. These slackers and unacheivers and sometimes outright frauds in our ranks have undermined our credibility in the corporate world. We collectively deserved what we got in the dot com crash in a lot of ways. The future does not look bright for the professional programmer.
Due to the National Competition Policy, it is unlawful to compell government agencies to use one type of software in preference to another.
A similar open source friendly bill has been passed in the State of South Australia. The S.A Act only makes it mandatory to "consider" using open source software in preference to proprietary software. Both pieces of legislation can only make it mandatory to "consider" the deployment of open sources software. The Australian Democrats introduced the Sth Aust bill in to Parliament. As the Australian Democrats are facing electoral oblivion in the Commonwealth elections within the next year, it is probable that there will not be any similar initatives in the future. The opposition Labor Party shadow Minister (for American readers essentially the alternative IT Minister who MAY be the responsible Minister next year) has intimated that similar legislation may be introduced for the Commonwealth at some stage in the future.
See the article in Computerworld: "ACT (Australian Capital Territory) passes open source law" http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=79293 4018&fp=16&fpid=0
It's not about the government telling anyone else what to do. It's about what the government must do itself.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Your wages will drop proportionally as well. Why do you think you are insulated from this global phenominon? Making $150K/yr in the valley slinging Java - that's 100K too much.
For those that don't know he ACT or Australian Capital Territory is nestled in the southern part of NSW, it is a comfortable drive of about 2 and a half hours to 3 hours from sydney (depending on whether you want to keep you licence or not).
While it is mostly overlooked as far as the rest of the world is concerned. It is the heart of the nation, and any adoption of Open Source Standands that comes from this bill, is an important step forward in many areas, not the least of which is security.
I'm looking forward to hearing the outcomes from this bill.
So Red Hat will hire the 20,000 unemployed programmers in my city alone? Not bloody likely.
Oh cry me a river. An extremely large proportion of Australia survives on less than 40K/year.
4 rn 09.pdf
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rn/2003-04/0
Wankers like you thinking the world owes them a big BMW or whatever are what makes it hard for some people in the world to get enough to eat day to day.
The bill was pushed through last night (about 12 hours ago) the full hansard is not yet available but I will link to it when it comes up.
Something that is just as interesting as the full hansard is the minutes and the changes that were made to the bill that has now been passed.
The line
'as far as practicable prefer open source software'
was changed to
'as far as practicable consider open source software'
Full minutes:
Are here
Page 8 has the bill
Page 10 has the ammendments
Kind of like what Microsoft is doing?
You cannot raise 3 kids on a single 40K/year salary, mate. And what's this talk about a BMW? I drive a Toyota.
According to the Sydney Morning Herald
This post patent pending.
Cool, maybe the Australian taxation office will be able to read those applications forms i've been sending in openoffice format now? Wooh, i might get a job soon.
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
At least you have a job. There are tons of North Americans who don't. 40 000 a year is far, far better than nothing. The market is adjusting. Deal with it. That's why people save money when there ARE making more money.
We've got a lot more detail on this, including links to the actual legislation, at RiotACT (Canberra focused slashlike)
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
I'm an ACT resident, and discussion about this bill came up at work today. In regards to that, I've got to wonder why the hell a bill was needed for this - why is a policy, strictly enforced, not enough?
Are our politicians so inept that they have to hold onto the contraints of the law in order to purchase some new software? Wait...I think I just answered my own question.
Da sind in deutsche Philosophie zu viel Bier -- FWN.
IAALS.
I hope these governments will pay back too. If they are benefitting from open source, they should somehow invest to promote open source software.
... shed some light on this.
The ACT governments is not one of the 7 state governments, nor does it represent the Australian federal government.
My understanding is that the ACT Government represents the ACT (strange that)... an underfunded town that is smaller and less influential than Munich.
It's nice to see the activity, but don't get over excited, this isn't going to rock anybodies world.
or on the other hand if they share some of that wine around the bill may actually pass!
I am Monkey, the Great Sage, equal of heaven!
Interesting... a movie set in Australia casts Austrians negatively?
Testify brother, test-ti-fy!
According to Computer World the bill was approved today.
I work for an IT company, among the largest, providing services in the ACT. I'm also one of the few people in this company that will even consider open source solutions to any given problem instead of jumping immediately to a Microsoft offering. Open source solutions are almost invariably dismissed if a Microsoft soution can be cobbled together. While I applaud the intent of this bill I don't think it'll change the status quo.
Government departments, local, State, or Federal have two common traits:
* They are risk averse
* They want someone to blame when things don't go right
Adopting an open source solution when all departments around you are Microsoft shops and all the local IT companies are Microsoft shops is seen as violating both traits.
Risk comes from the possibility that things may not interoperate (without your user base having to actually think for themselves). The first time a Minister or Dept. Head cannot open a memo or check a calendar because of file format problems someone will have to answer. Risk of this occurring increases as Redmond moves to close its file formats.
When open source fails there is no-one to blame. Even though blaming MS for failure in their software is pointless insofar as rectifying the problem it does provide suitable cover for bureaucrats. You and I both know that solutions to most open source problems can be had with a modicum of effort. However, if you cannot buy local IT company support for OpenOffice or whatever then you have to provide this effort yourself - something Australian governments have spent the best part of a decade divesting themselves of the ability to provide.
Good idea, and I hope it works, but I won't be holding my breath.
In fact Sydney harbour is cleaner than it has for a long time... infact sharks are returning to the Harbour and the Parramatta river. Oh its only fish, yum.
"Go into the hall of mirrors and have a bloody hard look at yourself" - HG Nelson
Forking - Closed source software forks every bit as much as open source source software and in addition will always eventually no longer be supported. With open source software an customer can make their own choices about when to drop support and not be beholden to a vendor trying to maximise profit.
Just to add to that thought, the parent company goes under... or the staff all get hit by a car while their bus is off the the company picnic, or whatever. If the source is open, you can at least try to continue it yourself, or hire somebody with programming knowledge to continue development/fixes.
The ACT is a administrative territory for the national capital, and we also had an OSS electronic voting system at our last election that is based on Linux
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
"His mastery over all bodily passions is constantly stressed. He seldom drank wine, but when he did, he could out-drink anybody; no one had ever seen him drunk."
B. Russell on Socrates from 'History of Western Philosophy'
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
And you are from where?
The USA? Where they have hunted the bison/buffalo to near extinction?
Spain? Where they poke pulls with spears for fun?
Russia? Where they make bears dance and beat them if they don't?
Or perhaps New Zealand? Where they love their sheep..........but in an icky way?
A few dogs, maybe a duck, some leather and a whip. Lets get spanking!!
The Operating System is software. The government would want the source for the OS for the same reason as for its application software, and for the same reason as it wants blueprints.
Why does the government need blueprints to remodel? The contractor who built the building has the blueprints, and can make any changes requested. Unless of course they go out of business, or the government wants to use a different contractor.
It's true that the gov is less likely to need to modify the OS. It may still happen, and there are other reasons to want the source that may or may not analogize to blueprints. Security audits, for one. Okay, that's all the more reasons I can think of at the moment. Have I made my point, though?
The enemies of Democracy are
Really? Mum and Dad seemed to manage it quite fine.
On the other hand, I don't know what the cost of living is in your area. People should consider that living, say, in New York, is going to cost a lot more, simply in terms of housing, than living in Australian suburbia.
But all the people whinging about their overpaid (and tech jobs during the bubble were definately overpaid) jobs getting knocked down get on my nerves.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
you are failured it. go home
Welcome to failurehood, please take a ticket.
I am not aware of any Australian film that portrays Austrians in a negative fashion.
Australians can handle having the piss taken out of them aslong as its done by Australians.
Sincerely,
AC.
You've abused a great analogy. Indeed, successful buildings must be able to evolve to suit the evolving needs of their users. In exactly the same way, software architectures also have to evolve.
You seem to be imagining that there is an invisible line in the software stack, below which needs never change and therefore where evolution does not need to take place. As a system architect with 30 years of experience watching this evolution take place, I would like to state categorically that there is no such line.
When my clients have specialized requirements for a software architecture, they don't see your line either. They work with me to define a particular set of behaviors, and I make sure that they are built in the place that makes the most sense and is most maintainable. Sometimes that involves writing a device driver, or porting to exotic hardware. Sometimes it involves kernel performance, or the network stack, or the window system, or a derivative of some commonplace system component. Sometimes it involves some combination of application development, system configuration, and scripting.
That's the way things are done here on planet Earth. Maybe they're different on planet Troll. I wouldn't know about that.
I'm not Australian, so I probably have no right to comment, but that change seems good. There is nothing more infuriating than being forced to use a tool "just because". The wording "prefer" could be weighted in different ways. If the deciding factor in choosing is the openness of the source not the usefullness of the application, everyone losses. User are forced to use an inferior product, and they know it, and an open source project that may have blossomed, starts to get a bad reputation.
For example, I am not an artist, and when I want to touch up a image on my computer, I use the GIMP. My brother is an artist and when he manipulates an image, he uses Photoshop. I chose the GIMP because of its price (directly related to its openness), but if my brother were forced to use the GIMP, he would hate it. It is a good tool, but not the best. And those that care about the difference don't want the choice determined by openness.
On the other hand, forcing all to be considered, including open source, is a win for everyone. Users get the best tool, good open source projects get to play on even ground, and losing open source projects know exactly what to improve on.
I am living proof of the Peter Principle
I won't be holding my breath.
Rather than concentrate on your breating, why don't you get with the program and start supporting OSS.
Looks like an excellent business opportunity, strike out on you own.
Help fight continental drift.
It is with a degree of pleasure that I witness you:
a) be cretinously stupid enough to mean your last post.
b) be cretinously stupid so as to be entertained by such a troll.
Either way, I pity you.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Hey I live in Canberra. Apparantly Linus was visiting Tridge and they went and checked out the fairy pengiuns at the National Zoo and Aquarium. It was the zoo where Linus got bitten on the finger by those cute, yet feisty little creatures! I'm so proud of that fact!
Canberra seems to be the epicentre of Linux in Australia. The Australian National Uni where I spent some time is very pro-Linux and Open Source.
Did you know that there are Uni's in Australia where people graduate with an IT degree, yet never once get their hands on Linux or BSD? Sad, very sad.
ACT is *the capital* city of Australia, seat of federal government, part time home of australian pollies (politicians), home of australian federal public service, houses adf hq (moved from vic barracks in melbourne - my home), home of various australian intelligence agencies (asis, asio) , location for diplomatic embassies, etc. Also home of Australian National University, Andrew Tridgell of Samba and rsync fame.
Canberra is *not underfunded*. It is in a sense an *artifical* city created as a political compromise to house the australian capital - after a fight broke betweem Victoria and Sydney around federation around 1901. The solution Canberra, a territory created in the NSW outback. Its sole purpose it to house government and its associated functions.
as for being less influential ... in australia its the national capital and houses the federal government - q.e.d. As for the rest of the world ... what does it matter?
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
Make sure you give Microsoft a heads up before the bill passes to give them time to lobby Australia just so you can get some karma on slashdot!
jobs are outsourced because they cost too much. if you don't like it, stop voting for trade protectionism (e.g. republicans/democrats), or move to one of the countries that's getting the jobs. stupid troll.
felonious softwar gangsters hoping to freeze time? (Score:mynuts won, chilly reception planned?)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 11, @06:35AM (#7688518) buy striking DOWn UN motion to promote gnu/free stuff to developing nations.
they seem to have hit the eXPanding georgewellian fuddite corepirate nazi execrable moretoll bullock. it's really just a sintax (t)error, whereas the fuddites' infactdead process, keeps replacing the 'one' in one wwworld, with won.
lookout bullow. continued pretending does not help/makes things worse?, if that's even possible.
united? nations? just won?
consult with/trust in yOUR creators.... the light itself, is not frozen, but does does function just as well in extremely low temperatures, all the way down to mynuts won? see you there?
If we the public make the Support for Open source better it is my thinking that we can widely increases the User base and increases the impact the world of open source has on the general public
You must mean START voting for trade protectionism, stupid. Oh yeah, BTW, India doesn't allow people to move to their country to work. You must be born in India to be a citizen, STUPID.
I know this is a bit late to post... but I know people who have raised 4 kids (I.E. finished doing it) on a 35K/year salary. Theres is "Can't" and there is "Can't, since I can't tell the difference between need and want"
A lot of people do it. if you can't then maybe you are not bright enough to work in the industry you are complaining about.
Great, we're supposed to be glad that our government has realised what century we're in *now*, just a handful of years after they decided that privatising the telecomms infrastructure was a good idea, as opposed to *keeping* the infrastructure, privatising the commercial aspect and using the profits from leasing the network to, oh I don't know, start thinking about something other than the next election and maybe build us an infrastructure that acknowledges that maybe, just maybe, this 'Net' thing might actually be important to us as a country, for our future.
Of course, his design was modified by a commitee mostly made up of the losers. Nevertheless, it shows a decent amount of foresight - the main arteries all have largish nature strips, perfect for slowing down cars and putting in light rails. Canberra has a largish park and a man-made lake just off the city centre (you've got to cross a bridge to reach the federal Parliament House, which has a grass roof that until recently tourists were allowed on). There's trees all over the place.
It's an interesting city to live in, though not to visit so much. Rush hour lasts for 15 minutes, the suburbs are apparently laid out according to Feng Shui principles (so naturally they're impossible to navigate) and the place is full of uni students and public servants - Australian ones, so that means pubs. The attractions are many and samey - very little is intended for the average resident, but then that's probably what the pubs and the shopping centres are for. Not much in the way of special events, but the population often either doesn't have time or has the uni organising things for them.
It's also it's own territory with a governing body that thinks much higher of itself than everyone else, but then Australians think fairly lowly of its politicians in the first place.
Coming from that perspective, I'm not surprised - the ACT is much less conservative than the states (I recall them legalising abortion last year) and would be keen to use something for free/little cash, even if it does mean putting the public servants into an uncomfortable computer environment.
Apparently we went with prefer after all. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/b/db_6278/curren t/pdf/db_6278.pdf
The practicable bit is still open to interpretation thouhgh.