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Police and Lawyers Love E-ZPass

John_Schmidt writes "The AP is reporting that police are using EZ-Pass records to solve crimes. Lawyers are also getting the records to use in divorce cases. The article also mentions that the NYS Thruway has sensors to read the cards along the highway (not just at toll booths) but says the data is scrambled and not stored."

115 of 736 comments (clear)

  1. How soon.. by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How soon before:

    You passed between milepost 1 and 15 in under 6 minutes, here's your speeding ticket.

    1. Re:How soon.. by ewhenn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then the real question is how long until I peel that bitch right off of my windshield.

      Answer: Not long at all.

    2. Re:How soon.. by Politburo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      EZ-Pass commissions have always operated under the promise that this would not be done. If it were ever to be enacted, you would see a lot of people dumping EZ-Pass, since many of the roadways in EZ-Pass areas have average traffic speeds over the speed limits, and the cost of even a small speeding ticket is ridiculous with the current insurance regulations and policies.

    3. Re:How soon.. by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      maybe for now. Just wait until there is a single tollbooth with a real person and the rest are EZ-Pass.

    4. Re:How soon.. by axxackall · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Personally I appreciate it. Changing the speed limit signs to increase should be the only way to move faster, not violation of existing ones.

      Now if the highway is not busy most (if not all drivers) are violating the law by speeding. It's bad because it creates a style of thinking: "it's ok beacuse everyone's doing the same". No need to mention that many people are dead from speeding.

      But, I repeat again, if the highway speed is unreasonable low then you should use your democracy, with which you are so proud you have it, and change the speed limit signs.

      I don't think that anything's wrong with tracking my speed. One way or another cops are doing it anyway. Let's them just do it in a style of 21 century :)

      --

      Less is more !
    5. Re:How soon.. by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Funny

      And if you do it in New York City, you should get some kind of cash prize.

      (There's always traffic in NYC, traffic at 2am on the Cross Island Parkway...WHY?!)

    6. Re:How soon.. by firebeaker · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the past, I think NJ might have done that from the data from the tickets... ie, you take the ticket when you entered the highway, exited 80 miles away, and the time difference was 60 minute - BINGO, you were speeding.

      In cases like that, they could go after the people who take tickets just as easily as those with EZ-Pass (or Fastlane in MA etc)

      --
      -beaker
    7. Re:How soon.. by Telastyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In nearly every place that is not enough evidence to prove speeding. Similar things were tried with paper toll booth tickets, and judges tossed them out.

      That said, why does anyone have a problem with this? Highways are public. Where you go is [largely] public information. If you have a problem with speeding laws, change the laws, not the enforcement. Would people be less upset if they paid tons more money to post a guy with photographic memory at each toll booth and watch everoyne go by?

      The only problem I have is that people aren't more honest about the system.

    8. Re:How soon.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      How soon before...

      Not soon enough, IMHO. Imagine how many countless lives could be saved by using this technology to get wreckless assholes who can't drive safely off the road. So called "privacy advocates" be damned, there's absolutely nothing a reasonable person could consider private about the speed of a car on a public road.

    9. Re:How soon.. by Misch · · Score: 2, Informative

      Possibly, but it would only be a moving violation against the registrant of the car. The system would be unable to prove who was driving it. Much the same way how cameras at intersections work.

      No points for your license.

      --

      --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
    10. Re:How soon.. by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think it would be cool if Diebold made the E-ZPass machines. Since they don't have printers, they could never send out the ticket.

      --
      What?
    11. Re:How soon.. by DrEldarion · · Score: 5, Funny

      (or they'd make political hay from mandating a no-evil-uses-with-EZPass policy, but this is Slashdot, so we all just assume a police state is inevitable, right?)

      Ahh yes, our dear Slashdot, where tinfoil is headwear and 1984 is the bible.

    12. Re:How soon.. by pizzaman100 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You passed between milepost 1 and 15 in under 6 minutes, here's your speeding ticket.

      That means you're doing over 150 miles per hour. You deserve a ticket. :)

    13. Re:How soon.. by MrDelSarto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then he wizened up... he went twenty over the speed limit still, he just parked at a rest stop before exiting, or so she claims.

      That's a pretty funny definition of 'wizening up' ... he took all the extra risks of extra speed but received none of the benefits (i.e. getting there earlier).
    14. Re:How soon.. by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
      > You passed between milepost 1 and 15 in under 6 minutes, here's your speeding ticket.

      That would make it highly obvious to criminals that everyone was being tracked. Criminals would cease using EZ-Pass.

      A properly designed mass surveillance systems must be unobtrusive; you have to give the target the illusion that he or she is not being monitored. If the target is aware they're being tracked, they'll modify their behavior to "look good" for the cameras.

      Whether you're more concerned about property rights or nonintrusive government, consider that as implemented, the EZ-Pass tracking system is one where the designers and participating governments have chosen to pass up the huge revenue from 10000 speeders a day, and they did so in order to increase the odds that the sonofabitch who stole your car last week gets nailed to the wall the instant he hits the interstate. Dude, that's a feature, not a bug!

    15. Re:How soon.. by AntiOrganic · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I don't agree with this line of thinking. Typically, when speeding isn't enforced, it's for a reason -- the officer realizes that if the person is going over the speed limit, but is driving responsibly -- staying in the center of their lane, not constantly changing lanes and cutting people off -- they're not a danger. The danger comes from people who drive aggressively, and these people are threatening at any speed. Speeding laws provide a pretext to pull these people over, because "he thought I was driving too aggressively" is debatable in court due to its subjectivity. "My radar clocked him going 10 miles over the speed limit," however, is much harder to refute.

      Now if the highway is not busy most (if not all drivers) are violating the law by speeding. It's bad because it creates a style of thinking: "it's ok beacuse everyone's doing the same". No need to mention that many people are dead from speeding.

      First off, if everyone on the 55 MPH freeway is driving a 75 MPH and you're moving at 20 MPH below the speed of traffic, you are yourself creating a potential traffic hazard, so you would be more likely to be involved in an accident, possibly the result of road rage, at the speed limit than at the speed of traffic.

      How can someone be dead from speeding? If the road is wet and someone skids and wraps around a telephone pole at 60 miles per hour, do you really think the effect is going to be that different than at 55 miles per hour? If they're driving faster than that in the rain, the issue is that their car is going faster than it and/or the driver can safely handle in those conditions -- it has little to do with what number appears on the sign.

      Again, I'd like to see some conclusive studies that speed limits actually help these situations. There's always a political or emotional spin on statistics released. How many of people killed in 85 MPH accidents were drunk? How many managed to fall asleep at the wheel? How many were talking on a cell phone? Obviously it helps somewhat but I'm curious just how much.
    16. Re:How soon.. by Goldfinger7400 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The I-Pass lanes greatly increase traffic flow by eliminating a bottleneck, so I could see how the cost could justified. And don't forget that in many toll plazas, the roads need to be reconfigured to support the express lanes (tearing up and moving concrete is expensive) and all those little boxes with the radio transcievers have to be distributed for free to the taxpayers. And they probably needed to pay the engineers who designed the system. So I can see where some of the money would go, at least.

    17. Re:How soon.. by zeugma-amp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even if they operate under the premise that it will not be done today doesn't mean they won't change their minds in the future.

      That is one reason I really don't trust those 'ezpass' systems. Those pushing this tech will swear on a stack of bibles that they aren't doing, and have no plans to do anything evil with the information they are capable f collecting. The easy way to find out exactly how truthful about this they are being is to try to buy one anonymously ith no identification with cash. You simply can't do it here in texas from what I understand. Sure, they can get your plates off the cameras they inevitably install, but simply tracking the comings and goings of a tag is much easier.

      If there were no nefarious intentions on their part, I'd be able to stop by the local quickie mart, buy one of these things with cash, and simply use it until it ran out. Then I could either recharge it, or get another one. This isn't going to happen, because they want to be able to easily track you wherever you go, just in case you might do something naughty.

      I can't believe we allow them to put up cameras all over the place on light poles, stoplights, and the like. I'm abaolutely amazed that there isn't an incredibly high mortality rate on them, because they deserve it.

      --
      This is an ex-parrot!
    18. Re:How soon.. by shepd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >What happens in 10 years when all toll highways are EZ-Pass and people can't switch back to cash?

      I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure it's law that any form of legal tender must be accepted for government services.

      I'm also relatively sure that any private sector seller must accept legal tender as a method of payment also. But I may be wrong.

      (legal tender, of course, being cash)

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    19. Re:How soon.. by Sir0x0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its not actually ex post facto. The driving violation *was* illegal at the time, they just didn't use the data to fine you. If they lowered teh speed limit, and tried to fine you for past months "violations" that would be ex post facto.

    20. Re:How soon.. by Atzanteol · · Score: 2, Funny

      I assume they'll be giving free EZ Tag's out? How do they expect people from out of state to use the road?

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    21. Re:How soon.. by Avihson · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not sure if the private sector is forced to take cash, I know for a fact that the government does not have to take cash.
      Many government services require a moneyorder or certified check, such as the Penna vehicle sales tax. The application states not to send cash, and they discourage the use of personal checks with warnings of delays in service till the check clears.

      There is a law or IRS regulation requiring IRS notification of any cash purchase of $10,000 or more. I remember seeing the notice hanging in the local Radio Shack back in the early 90's
      Can you pay the IRS with coins?
      Been tried, and it doesn't work.

      The government makes the laws, those laws can be written to favor them. Many laws already are written that way:
      The Government states that you owe taxes, You have to furnish proof that you do not. If you owe back taxes, along with taxes and possible penalties, you also have to pay interest.
      If you prove that the Government owes you, they do not have to pay interest, nor are they penalized for holding on to your money. Why is this so? Because they wrote the rules to favor those in power, while trying to limit fraud and abuse of the system.

      The Government that prints the statement of legal tender on the bills can choose to stop printing that statement. They stopped giving the bearer of silver certificates the equivalant value of sterling silver in the 60's, what makes you certain that they will honor cash in the future?

    22. Re:How soon.. by KATN · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Quote "I don't agree with this line of thinking. Typically, when speeding isn't enforced, it's for a reason -- the officer realizes that if the person is going over the speed limit, but is driving responsibly -- staying in the center of their lane, not constantly changing lanes and cutting people off -- they're not a danger. The danger comes from people who drive aggressively, and these people are threatening at any speed. Speeding laws provide a pretext to pull these people over, because "he thought I was driving too aggressively" is debatable in court due to its subjectivity. "My radar clocked him going 10 miles over the speed limit," however, is much harder to refute."

      This attitude is exactly what is wrong with this country. Laws are enforced when convenient, whether it is traffic or drug use or financial accountability. Law makers rush to pass new laws when something bad happens. They do this in spite of the fact that there were already laws in place to prevent the bad thing from happening.

      I am a long haul truck driver. Granted, not everyone who drives a truck does it as they are supposed to. However, I drive according to the laws that govern my vehicle operation. I have all kinds of things to deal with that I don't like. There are split speed limits, where trucks have to travel 5-20 MPH slower than cars. These laws are not safe, yet I don't have the luxury of choosing the laws I wish to obey. I don't care if you feel that the roads that are governed at 55 MPH can be safely traveled at 70 MPH. That is not your decision to make. Personally I don't care how they nail you for speeding as long as the laws are enforced. If there is a problem with the law, law abiding folks should stand up and make an effort to change the law.

      Civil disobedience may be a way of getting attention, but don't tell me or anyone else that your speeding is civil disobedience. It is simply selfishness. You don't have time to do the right thing and the cops aren't watching so stay out of my way. As long as that is the prevalent attitude, my attitude will continue to be: "Nail em any way you can".

    23. Re:How soon.. by thirdrock · · Score: 4, Insightful


      "Speed check by Radar"
      "Unmarked patrol cars"
      "Speed check from Aircraft"


      How is "Speed check by EZPass" much different?

      It's different because it doesn't require any effort on the part of the Government. Meaning it is the start of a slippery slope towards an automated police state. Machines just do what they are programmed to do without regard to individual circumstance, and without being able to offer any assistance in true emergencies (like rushing someone to the hospital).

      --
      >>
      I am the director, and this is my movie ...
    24. Re:How soon.. by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Funny

      You deserve a ticket.

      He deserves a high paying career as a Boeing contractor designing our nation's next generation of low-altitude combat aircraft.

    25. Re:How soon.. by dstutz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How soon till I rear-end your ass because you're too busy looking for your tag, holding it up to the windsheild, or putting it back rather than paying attention to the road and doing the (for example) 15mph through the lane on the GSP. People like you should have their tags taken away. They come with sticky tape for a reason.

    26. Re:How soon.. by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That will not work unless you put the card in a lead box. E-Z Pass boxes are designed to work through large metalic objects, probably because they have to be able to do so to operate. The cheif subscribers to E-Z Pass are trucking companies, as it's cheaper, faster, and means that drivers dont have to know how to count change. Those trucks are perfect for jamming a standard RFID signal, but E-X Pass still operates. Hiding the box will most likley put it closer to the ground where the speeding sensors are, not farther.

      You sure you're talking about the same thing?

      All EZPass detectors are mounted above the car lanes, those big white panels. That's the way it works for all Metro NYC bridges and tunnels, the NYS Thruway (up to Albany, I haven't been west).

      The readers will NOT work in the glove compartment. I got a new car with new plates, didn't have the velcro so I had it sitting in the glove compartment. Went through three red lights before I realized that it wasn't the lane was broken but the pass wasn't mounted... and got fined for each of those three violations. So no, it does NOT read from within the glovebox.

      In rentals, I've tried rubber banding it to the visor, and flipping the visor forward when I pass under. It sorta works, but I have to drive the car a little to one side so the device is directly under the antenna. I've gotten fined a few times because I'd forgotten to either flip the visor forward, or to have it precicely in the center of the lane.

      I've also tucked the pass under my leg when going through some tolls and pay cash, when I *don't* want them to know where I'm going and when. Or if I know I've got to make point A to point B much faster than I want their computers to know.

      So no, it does not read through metal. It doesn't read through body parts. It had a hard time reading unless it's sitting in the middle of the winshield directly in the middle of the lane. Really, it's pitiful how poorly it does work.

      --
      -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
    27. Re:How soon.. by Chmcginn · · Score: 2, Funny
      One of the more eerie sights I've seen, for the city that never sleeps


      We said it never sleeps, not that it never passes out after the fireworks display and a case of Stroh's. There's legally too drunk to drive, and then there's can't-reach-the-car too drunk to drive.

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    28. Re:How soon.. by stfvon007 · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp

      Here, this should clear up all the confusion. This explains what legal tender is and contains links to the government sites defining EXACTLY what legal tender is.

      --
      All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
    29. Re:How soon.. by Mr+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      why is this a crime?


      Well see congresspeople write these ideas on peices of paper, they call these, "Bills". Then they get together and submit these bills to this whole big group of people called Congress...heck, maybe this will help

    30. Re:How soon.. by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Informative

      "why is this a crime?"

      Because you don't know that the road is empty. Someone could pull out in front of you. Someone could run onto the road. You wouldn't have time to react at 140mph. Someone could get killed.

      Speed limits aren't repressive tools of a repressive government. Speed limits are usually in line with the maximum safe speed of the road. And don't give me this bullshit of "it's not speed but speed difference". Yeah. Right. At higher speeds, you cover more distance in the time it takes you to react. Your brakes take longer to stop the vehicle. Basically, when the shit hits the fan, the faster you are going, the more likely you are to hit something. Moreover, when something does happen, you are decelerating faster, which means more force and more destruction.

      Excessive speed is always dangerous. Are there situations where high speeds can be reasonably safe? Absolutely. Can we trust drivers to make that determination. Absolutely not.

    31. Re:How soon.. by squaretorus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is where I start to lose the will to live. If you start with the assumption that speed limits are too low and so speeding is NOT dangerous (at least its not when I do it), and you assume catching speeders is solely a cash raising excercise automated capture seems evil.

      If we have automated capture that catches and fines 100% of offenders - and that fucks up peoples lives far enough - the law will change. And then we're not all doing 85 in a 70 limit. We're doing 85 in an 85 limit.

      Automated capture also costs less, on the whole, so the good policemen and women can be out hunting down murderers and the like - instead of fighting the endless war against speeding.

      Personally - I find that quite attractive - assuming everyone stops being pussies and actually gives a fuck about CHANGING laws, not just BREAKING them.

      SHIT - my hat!! my hat!!! WHERES MY TINFOIL HAT!!!!! that fucking cat has taken it again I bet!

    32. Re:How soon.. by Barbarian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Kinetic energy goes up with the square of speed. This is what tears your car apart when you hit something.

      You mentioned 3 speeds, 55, 60, and 75

      55^2/55^2 = 1
      60^2/55^2 = 1.19
      75^2/55^2 = 1.86

      So you see, a bit of change in speed does make a difference.

    33. Re:How soon.. by DeanOh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't count on it (at least in NJ). The NJ Turnpike has been time-stamping their entry/exit toll tickets for as long as I've been driving (long enough to have waited in gas lines during the 1st OPEC oil embargo), and they haven't done this simple math exercise yet. Why would they start just because there's a new layer of technology??

      If bad guys are stupid enough to use an EZ Pass, I'm glad the cops are smart enough to figure out how where there were on their way to/from the crime scene.

      As for the non-bad guys: you simply have to assess your own level of tolerance in the calculus of convenience vs. privacy.

    34. Re:How soon.. by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2, Informative
      but _all_ Government divisions and agencies have to accept cash, the paper kind. The idiot who tried to pay the IRS with a truckload of pennies deserved the bi!@#slapping he got.

      Details of the incident, please. I'd love to hear about it.

      The last time I witnessed something like this was over 20 years ago at the IRS office in Houston. Back then, local offices had a teller function. One day a guy comes in and to pay off a liability and he's obviously peeved about the whole thing. I don't remember the amount, exactly, but seem to recollect that is was in the low thousands, maybe between 1 and 2 thou. He produced thousands of rolls of pennies to pay the liability.

      The manager of the teller unit stuck strictly to established procedure. He put one teller on an open window to serve everyone else and immediately got another teller to volunteer for overtime. The two of them then proceeded to accept the payment according to procedure, which required every payment to be counted three times prior to acceptance and issuing a receipt. They then broke up the rolls and, by hand, counted all those pennies three times. It started in the morning and went on till late that night because this little teller cage, a fine place to drop off a check, didn't come equipped with a machine to count coins. It all had to be done by hand.

      The guy who was paying thought it was funny, at first. Then he tried to leave. But he couldn't have a receipt until it was all counted. And he had to be present for the counting. Every time he had to go to the bathroom, the conference room was emptied and locked. If he wanted to leave, he'd either have to wait for the count to be finished or take his money with him.

      So he sits. And waits. And watches. And glares, while the manager and teller count and count and count. After a couple of hours, his wife was literally screaming at him about what a jerk he was and how they couldn't take all those pennies back to the bank because the rolls had been broken and she damn sure wasn't going to re-roll them. Eventually, she told him he started this crap and he was going to have to finish it. Then she stormed out and left him there.

      In the wee hours, the teller unit manager was nice enough to let this guy use a phone to call a cab. For some reason, he didn't want to call his wife to come pick him up.

      The moral of all this? Government entities take cash. In this age of staff-slashing, they don't like to because they've often shut down their teller functions. But if you show up at an IRS office to make a payment and you insist on doing so in cash, it'll be accepted. You may have to talk to the manager, but if you insist on a Form 809 receipt (the only form from the IRS that's truly a receipt), you'll eventually get them to take the money.

    35. Re:How soon.. by stry_cat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Then the real question is how long until I peel that bitch right off of my windshield.

      Answer: Not long at all.

      Then the real question is how soon will everyone be required by law to have one.

      Answer: I don't want to think about that.

    36. Re:How soon.. by tnak · · Score: 2, Informative

      no, no, no. you made a 4th grade word problem error.

      it's not 15 miles, it's 14 miles. 15 minus 1.

      so he was only doing slightly in excess of 140 miles per hour.

  2. Why Wait? by tedgyz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let's just get those RFID tags injected into our necks and get this over with. It is inevitable.

    --
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
    1. Re:Why Wait? by Jeffery+McGrew · · Score: 2, Funny

      RFID tags? In the neck? WTF?

      Why didn't anyone tell me about this before I went and had this damn barcode tattooed onto my forehead?!?

      Always outdated. Damn. Now I'm not gonna be 'cool'.

  3. And why not??? by blankmange · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do you sign a contract that states your usage of the EZ-Pass will not be tracked/used/etc...? Probably not, so if you allow yourself to be tracked and are doing illegal/illicit activities, it boils down to you aren't smart enough to be a good criminal...

    --
    ...we are from the government - we are here to help...
    1. Re:And why not??? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      EZ-Pass stores only the data that's needed to bill you, and no matter what a court can always demand that be turned over if there's a good reason to.

      The non-toll sensors mentioned in the article are intentionally designed not to identify users, just to allow the Thruway authority to track the average speeds on the road. The state authorities really don't have much incentive to write speeding tickets for reasons reasons other than safety in New York State, because the fines are payable to the city or town in which the ticket was written, even if by a state cop. For that reason any "You couldn't get from Point A to Point B that fast!" ticket in NYS would have the instant problem of all the mayors from A to B fighting over who deserves the money.

  4. Simple solution by bobthemuse · · Score: 2, Funny

    Send me your EZ-pass and $5, I'll put in a small push-button switch. Only activate it when you're not out doing illegal things :-)

    1. Re:Simple solution by Politburo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The EZ-Pass transponder comes with an anti-static bag which blocks transmission of signals to the device, in case you may wish to pay the toll by other means. The EZ-Pass instructions implore you to keep the bag in your glove compartment at all times.

    2. Re:Simple solution by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Funny

      If your anti-static bag is not available, store it in your tin-foil hat. Same effect.

    3. Re:Simple solution by bobthemuse · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not entirely true. No such thing as a "passive" transmitter, as the act of transmitting a circuit requires energy. EZ-Pass draws energy by passing through a time-varying magnetic field, which induces a small current, which is used to power the transmitter. Interrupt the circuit between the coil and the transmitter, and you'll effectively shut it down.

  5. Instant Alibi!!! by vaguelyamused · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This could work both ways. Give your EZ pass to your buddy(or clone it and attach it someone's car) and send them on their way.

    --
    STOP ROCK VIDEO
    1. Re:Instant Alibi!!! by rjamestaylor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Instant accessory to a felony -- "We have documented evidence that you drove or rode with the suspect..."

      --
      -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  6. INVASION OF PRIVACY by nil5 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ALERT ALERT!!!! This is even worse than having to have a LICENSE PLATE! I don't want anyone else, (LET ALONE POLICE!) knowing who I am.

    1. Re:INVASION OF PRIVACY by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is even worse than having to have a LICENSE PLATE! I don't want anyone else, (LET ALONE POLICE!) knowing who I am.

      I realize you meant that as a joke, but some of us don't want our whereabouts known at every second of every day. This has nothing to do with paranoia (beyond the standard healthy dose), or a penchant for illegal activities. I just don't want my every move tracked.

      Also, realize that this has a huge potential for abuse... I go through a toll perhaps once a month. If I had one of these EZ Passes (or the local equivalent, the TransPass), I would not notice for up to a month if someone stole it and had earned me quite a bit of debt. Now, even aside from the bill, what happens when my TransPass record for the past month shows me regularly visiting a mistress, or a crime scene, or some other place I've never gone, all because someone thought ahead of time to cover their tracks and use a stolen TransPass? Yeah, suuuuuuure the police/divorce-attourney will believe someone nabbed by pass and I just didn't notice...

      This boils down to the classic argument about speed cameras - they don't prove a driver, just a vehicle. Although some may justify the inconvenience (personally, I find it reprehensible) of getting a ticket after loaning out your car to a friend, the situation goes from "annoyance" to potentially "pound-me-in-the-ass-prison" or "lose-everything-to-ex-wifey" when records like these suffice as "evidence" of the actual driver in court. I do not consider that even remotely acceptible, nor should any of us.

    2. Re:INVASION OF PRIVACY by Kohath · · Score: 2, Funny

      Some of us are actually wondering why we have to have big identification numbers on our cars everywhere we go while others walk around in unlicensed shoes with impunity.

      The burden of forced identification or licensing should be for those who've been convicted, not for innocent people minding their own business.

      The licensing of drivers has led to a slow erosion in the very idea of freedom. After all, you need a license to drive, so why should you be able to paint your house, sell retail items, or take care of children without a license?

      The current presumption is that no one's allowed to drive unless they've been given explicit permission by the government. The presumption _should be_ that you're allowed to drive unless that freedom has been taken away from you.

    3. Re:INVASION OF PRIVACY by MrChuck · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Ever try to check into a hotel without ID and using cash?

      I tried this once. I was in a downtown area and staying extra time and had to change hotels.
      No car, just me and a bag. Credit card was close to maxxed and I was surfing ATMs until a payment got through.

      The hotel wouldn't do it.
      I gave my (real) name. No address (not their business) and offered to pay whatever deposit they needed. Not a fancy hotel, not a dive. Just a holiday inn class hotel. I needed a room and a desk. I was at the clients site for 15 hrs/day anyway.

      What is wrong that you cannot travel in this country without identification papers?

      /me wonders how John Gilmore's case is going where he refused to present ID at the airport.

      Contrary to their words, there are ZERO laws that you must show state issued identification to travel. More, any 9/11 terrorists HAD IDs that were just fine. So it's not been an issue in the past. At least they dropped the useless "did you pack your own bags" question. the only incidents that ever occurred in that light were when a SPOUSE was trying to do in a partner.

    4. Re:INVASION OF PRIVACY by Poeir · · Score: 2, Funny

      There never was a John Gilmore. All citizens must present identification at airports. I repeat, John Gilmore never existed.

      --
      Sigs are like bumper stickers.
  7. Freedom of Choice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Convenience? Privacy?
    Convenience? Privacy?

    Decisions, decisions.

  8. This is not a problem, it's an opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I will shortly be selling a kit that allows you to clone an EZ-pass card through my regular channels (read: guys in the states who advertise in the back of magazines sell COD) for selling cable descramblers. My hand held tag reader, concealable as a road side rock with a battery that lasts 3 days, is priced out the range of causual snoopers -- but some reporters have already used to collect the tag ids of a number of celebraties and politicians and start monitoring them.

  9. This is just part of the cost by Fred+IV · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No problem at all for me, my EZPass literally saves me hours a week since I'm on the NJ Turnpike regularly.

    If I was planning on doing something seriously illegal, I'd just ditch the tag first. The cops who got caught claiming false overtime deserved it, not because they did wrong, but because they were stupid enough to think they weren't leaving an auditable trail behind them.

    FIV
    1. Re:This is just part of the cost by sfjoe · · Score: 2, Informative



      If I was planning on doing something seriously illegal, I'd just ditch the tag first

      I'm beginning to believe we will never be able to get people to understand that government snooping is worrisome even to law-abiding citizens. They came for the Jews, and I wasn't Jewish...

      Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the transportation authorities routinely delete their tracking info so that even a subpeona can't retrieve it.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    2. Re:This is just part of the cost by dandelion_wine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree that is the case when our privacy is intruded upon, but I think that's only halfway there. Even when it's "the other guy" being intruded upon, there still is this:

      The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
      H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

      The whole McCarthyistic idea that people who have nothing to hide should not be concerned about enforcing their right to privacy is the very first idea that must be tossed out with the trash.

  10. Paper trail for IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to work for a home contractor in the NYC suburbs. We crossed the Hudson river every day over the Tappan Zee bridge, and used EZ-Pass to pay the tolls. (Those out of the area, please be patient.) Now, contractors are notorious for taking cash payments whenever possible, and how much of this income they report in taxes is no doubt a small fraction.

    So, what happens when any one of these contractors, or businessmen in similar circumstances, has their tax returns audited? How long will it be until EZ-Pass and other similar systems are used to "establish a pattern": meaning, evidence that you do business every day of the year, even though you report your income as seasonal, occasional or whatever?

    And that's just taxes!!!

    We're being watched, and the full implications of this are scary.

    1. Re:Paper trail for IRS by Servo · · Score: 4, Informative

      First off, in your scenario you are suggesting that the IRS will audit you and find out you are cheating on your taxes. That's illegal, and whatever happens to you or whoever else doing something illegal that gets caught by this will get no sympathy from anybody.

      With that said, I don't see how establishing a pattern that you went over the tappan zee every day as to show how much money are you actually bringing in. If you claiming you are only making $24k a year, when you live in a $300k house and drive your $30k truck over the Tappan Zee every day, there are a multitude of ways to figure it out.

      --
      A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
    2. Re:Paper trail for IRS by Idarubicin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually, they'll get sympathy from a whole lot of people, since a whole lot of people cheat on their taxes. In fact, if you count the small stuff (like use tax), just about everyone cheats on their taxes.

      That's a charming rationalization, from which I conclude that you have a bit of a guilty conscience about cheating on your own taxes.

      Realistically, the IRS isn't going to go after someone who fudges by fifty bucks on their return. (At least, they're not going to waste the time of a live auditor on it--their computers might catch it and automagically generate a bill...but I digress.) This sort of thing would be used to support criminal charges of tax evasion, where someone is concealing tens of thousands of dollars worth of income.

      Would it be wrong for a police officer to sit at the side of the bridge and write down all the license plate numbers that go past? Where is the difference--except that people who pay cash then get caught, too?

      Sympathy? Aside from the toll road for which the costs may or may not be recovered through the user fees (tolls) the cheater in question is travelling on taxpayer-funded roads. Somebody has to pay for that infrastructure--and if he's not paying his taxes, then the roads are being paid for out of mine. Sympathy my ass. Nail the bastard to the wall.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  11. Duh... by Misch · · Score: 2, Informative

    New York businessman Solomon Friedman ... Anyone with technical savvy, he said, could track radio signals from the cards. He designed a pouch a driver can store the card in, blocking the signal when not in the toll lane.

    Dipshit didn't design it, you get one of those from E-Z Pass when you get your tag. Maybe he made one that looks a little less like an anti-static bag that a computer component would come in, bu it's not original.

    --

    --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
  12. Cell phones too by homer_ca · · Score: 4, Informative

    Don't forget that other tracking device that we all carry, cell phones. It's constantly transmitting while powered on. Right now, the phone company only logs your location by cell site, a radius of many miles. Police could still find someone by triangulating their signal with specialized (meaning expensive) equipment, but E911 changes all that. They'll be required to pinpoint the location of any caller by 50-100 meters.

  13. FasTrak by horsie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here in California, we have FasTrak. They already acknowledge that they use sensors on the road to determine traffic conditions. They also said that you can opt-out of this. They even supply the mylar bags so that you don't get tracked this way. They sent out a letter informing users of this earlier this year and even sent an additional mylar bag.

    The FAQ for Fastrak mentions the mylar bags in relation to carpool lanes. Same principle for traffic conditions.

  14. License plate cameras by phr1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An awful lot of tollbooths also have license plate cameras, so who needs EZpass? Maybe they're just going to analog video recordings for now, but one assumes the license plate images are easy to OCR and that can be done in real time soon enough. I'm sure I could easily do it with a webcam. Of course once all tires have RFID, then every magnetic traffic light sensor and parking meter can have RFID readers built in.

    1. Re:License plate cameras by SuperBanana · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Maybe they're just going to analog video recordings for now, but one assumes the license plate images are easy to OCR and that can be done in real time soon enough

      Already been done in England.

      Someone once recounted to me how a video-based speed camera would take a snapshot of the plate, do OCR on it...and, wait for it....do a lookup against the UK motor vehicle registry. About 500 feet down the road was a digital sign, and it would display personalized messages. As in, "Mr. Bean, you are going over the speed limit, please slow down".

      I think he said it freaked out people enough(surprising, given how London has more security cameras than people -wanna see 1984? Go to the UK) that it was pulled.

  15. incentives? by Frisky070802 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's possible to do this on a voluntary basis. For instance, I heard of a car rental agency that gave a big discount if you'd use a GPS that would alert them to excessive speeding. Coercion or good business? I could imagine a setup where insurance companies give people money off if they go along with this, and many might be willing to make that tradeoff.

    --
    Mencken had it right. So glad that's old news.
    1. Re:incentives? by calyphus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it wasn't voluntary and they use a penalty clause in their contract to increase revenue. They charge the renters credit card an added 'insurance fee' that increases per mph over limit. (I'll have to search the NPR archives to find it. I'm pretty sure it was a Morning Edition item.)

      --


      The potato it is uninformed.
    2. Re:incentives? by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Informative
      Granted, this would not be illegal right now, but this is not what I imagine when I think of a 'free' society

      Actually I work for an Independent Insurance Agency and none of the carriers we work with (there are dozens) are talking about (or even have this on the drawing board) doing anything like this.

      There was some talk sometime ago about some of the carriers looking to use GPS to verify garaging information -- i.e: Why do we have your garaging address as Syracuse when your car has spent the last 45 days in New York City where the rate of accidents and thefts are ten times higher?

      But this hasn't happened yet (the carriers have no way to actually get this GPS information -- even if your car comes with the Black Box, which most of them don't) and it's hardly the road to a police state. We call lying about the garaging address "fraud" -- if you do this and get into an accident and they find out about it two things will happen: 1) They won't pay your claim (better hope you don't get sued) | 2) They will likely refer it to the authorities for prosecution as Insurance Fraud.

      Also, your comment about the discounts isn't completely accurate (at least in my state -- admittedly I don't know anything about Insurance law outside of NY and our laws tend to be on the more liberal side). You can get discounts for defensive driving, having etched window glass (with your VIN), paying the policy in full (vs installments). You can also get surcharges for convictions or previous claim activity (we lump it all into the generic term 'incident'), having a poor credit score (if your carrier uses them -- not all do), or being an inexperienced operator (defined as less then three years licensed -- at least in NY).

      If your auto insurance is starting with a really high rate and then being discounted down you are probably with a non-preferred carrier like Progressive. You need to find an Independent Agent who will write you with a preferred carrier -- if you don't qualify then chances are you are either young (in which case you are SOL) or have nobody to blame but yourself (excessive number of incidents).

      In any case I think it will be quite awhile before we see any Insurance Carriers mandating GPS usage. Before they could do this they would have to clear it with the state insurance authorities -- in my state I doubt it would ever happen. As it stands right now it would be illegal for them to do this in my state -- surcharging you for speeding implies that you were convicted of speeding in a Court of Law after having had a chance to defend yourself. And even if you are convicted of speeding oftentimes they won't pick up on it -- not all carriers spend the money to run MVRs on you every time your policy comes up for renewal. We've had insureds get DWIs and not have the carriers find out about it.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  16. Houston TransStar + Parking by DaRat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Houston area version is called EZ-Tag. In addition to the "go through the toll booths" quickly aspect, data is fed into the Houston TranStar system along most of the major freeways.

    The TranStar site is great because you can easily get an idea of traffic conditions before leaving your home/office. Interesting data includes historical speed graphs.

    The automatic garage doors at our office building can also be set up to read the EZ-Tag and automatically open the doors when we pull up.

  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. One Pass... by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Funny

    One Pass To rule them all
    One Pass to find them
    One Pass to bring them all
    And in the darkness, bind them

    Thank you, Sir Rudy Giuliani, former NYC prosecutor, for pushing the E-Z Pass on us when you were NYC mayor, yapping about "court orders" and "due process" for access to the data. Now you can see all the motorists on the East Coast shining in your Palantir.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  19. What if.. by EMIce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Someone builds their own EZ-Pass readers for fun and profit. I'd assume anyone with RFID engineering knowledge could find out what frequency the tag operates on, either by bringing some kind of radio monitor to an EZ-Pass booth or by taking the tag apart. Each TAG should send a unique response, encrypted or not. It could for example be used by high schools to make sure kids don't leave, for one thing. I'm sure the rest of the slashdot crowd could come up with plenty more big brother like scenarios.

  20. a little thing I thought of by loraksus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the last couple of years, there has been a greater push to get "tough on crime" (or appear so, but we won't split hairs here, will we?) which basically means "put more people in prison than we did last year"

    Because of this push and the fact that various law enforcement / "civil defense" agencies aren't really "up with the times" (sheer incompetence and the apparant inability to convict someone in a "regular court" might be a better way of stating this), in order to keep up - these same folks HAVE to turn to technology and to to push through poorly written legislation (or interpret it in interesting ways)in order to make their "quota".

    Dunno, I probably have no credibility, but my belief that law enforcement is embracing all these new things is not because they are new, but they are too incompetent to keep up their statistics using traditional means. /shrug

    --
    1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  21. Metrocard vs EZPass by Saeger · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I can buy and refill my Metrocard ANONYMOUSLY. If that wasn't the case -- if I had no other choice than to have it linked to me personally -- then I would still be using those ancient subway tokens.

    With EZPass, you don't have the option to pay cash and remain anonymous - you MUST be linked to thing even though there's no good reason for this to be the ONLY option. I can understand that some people don't give a shit about privacy and want to billed, but I'm guessing that there's a LOT of people out there just like me (in the cashonly lane) who would rather prepay in cash and be left alone.

    I'm wondering if it would be illegal to setup a EZPass proxy organization?

    --

    --
    Power to the Peaceful
    1. Re:Metrocard vs EZPass by Nick+Watkins · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The difference between EZPass and the Metrocard is that if you attempt to enter the turnstyles with an empty Metrocard, the system can stop you. You cannot be stopped from going through an EZPass lane with an empty card. If users had an option to do this anonymously, EZPass lanes would soon disappear as more and more people would just allow the pass to empty and still go through the booth. I am also not sure the privacy debate is valid because your license plate can still be photographed and the car's owner can be identified that way.

  22. Houston uses it for traffic tracking by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Informative

    In Houston, Texas, the highway department has placed transponders all over the highway system... not just on the tollways, but on the freeways as well. This data is used to create very cool real-time maps of traffic conditions.

    Since the transponders are compatible with other Amtech/TransCore systems, even vehicles from Oklahoma, Dallas, and other cities help keep the map up to date. In fact, the Dallas and Houston tollway systems are now interconnected -- the same tag will let you cruise through both systems.

    Of course, the privacy implications of this convenience have been obvious from the beginning. If you have the need or desire for true anonymity, though, you're not in the market for a (non-disposable) cell phone or a TollTag anyway.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  23. Is this really that difficult? by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you're going someplace you don't want recorded, put the freeway pass into the trunk. Duh.

    --
    --- Ban humanity.
  24. How soon for personalized spam? by peter303 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There could be advertisements personalized to our name and consumer characteristics triggered by RFIDs. Just like in Minority Report. Although they used biometrics rather than RFIDs.

  25. How They decide speed limits by MrChuck · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Survey the speed people are driving on the road.
    Select the 85 percentile of that for the speed limit.
    Enter politics, so write down 55 or 65 no matter how safe the road is.

    Oh, and the standards used for road speed is still 1950's vehicles on skinny tires, no matter that even cheap cars have anti-lock brakes.

    So yes, if speed limits had ANYTHING to do with what the roads could bear, perhaps we're respect the signs. Again: if the laws were based on reason (*cough*), they'd be respected. When speed limits are imposed because to raise ticket money, then it's wrong and the authoritive gov't needs to be kicked in the knees for it.

    And instead of the police enforcing safe driving by ticketing people cruising along in the leftmost lane without passing anyone, or for lane changes without signals, or for eating/phoning while driving taking important attention away from piloting a 3000lb SUV at 90 feet per second...
    No, they'll enforce "speeding laws" only.

    Clearly, when I'm on a Calif Superhighway with few people on it - a road that's larger and its in better shape than parts of the autobahn I've seen - clearly, it's only safe for 65 when going 110 on the autobahn was almost dangerously slow. Because a sign says so.

    Give me a driving test that 40% of the people fail the first time they try it, give me road that you have to have the "proven able" license to drive and I'll go for it.

    RE: EZ Pass? It's in a lead bag (for film) in the glove box when I'm not going through a toll booth.

    After our officials "promised" and swore up and down it would only be used for tolls, NJ and NY authorities have been caught MANY times abusing this.

    Ready for your implanted RFID yet sir?
    Bend over now

    The parent may have an extra dose of soma for his obedience.

    1. Re:How They decide speed limits by zasos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was waiting for someone to mention autoban... the problem is culture of driving and living for that matter... Germans are organized: slow drivers drive in the right lane leaving the left lane to 'no limit' drivers... Americans don't give a f@ck... How often do you see an assh@le driving 55 in the fast lane on a stretch with 65 limit?... I like the idea of tougher driving test but changes to more courteous culture would go a long way....

      --

      Just because I don't care, it doesn't mean I don't understand. Homer J. Simpson
    2. Re:How They decide speed limits by pipingguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Survey the speed people are driving on the road. Select the 85 percentile of that for the speed limit.

      That's how the roadway designers originally established recommended speed limits (by observing behaviour and implementing rules to accomodate the majority of drivers). Politicians tend to use speed limits as revenue generation schemes and "please think of the children" emotion-tugging.

    3. Re:How They decide speed limits by MrChuck · · Score: 3, Insightful
      And if you're in the left lane and get rear ended, it's YOUR fault. You shouldn't have been there.

      God, how I'd love to see someone get a ticket for going slower that the status quo speed, parked over there in the penultimate fast lane (2nd from left) on a 10 lane highway with people passing on left (when they can) and on the right.

      If people are passing you on the right, you're breaking the law. You must move to the right except to pass.

      If you change lanes without signalling ahead of time, you're breaking the law and endangering people. If you slow to 45 to take an exit without a signal on, you should get hit, then given a ticket. You are a hazard on the road.

      But no, american "culture" is that you must drive, you must be able to drive and damnit, drive how you please and where you please. Just don't speed in front of The Man. Aside from drinking and weaving that's the only offence you'll get nailed for.

    4. Re:How They decide speed limits by BardicStorm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If people are passing you on the right, you're breaking the law. You must move to the right except to pass.

      Yes, in most US states it is true that unless you are in the process of passing someone, you must be in the right hand lanes. However, it is also illegal to pass someone on the right unless they are in the process of making a left turn or are stopped on the road. Because someone is traveling at the speed limit does not make passing them legal, at least not in any state i've been in. And I'm sure you'll find that in most states, it is a law that passing someone does not give you the right to break any laws yourself, including no turning signals, speeding, or passing on the right.

      I will say that I used to speed, until, through my own actions I flipped my truck. Now I don't speed anymore, but it's not really directly because of the accident. I had to get a car. Due to lack of funds, it had to be an older one. Now, between the shitty handling, unresponsive engine, and lack of noise dampening, doing anything above the speed limit on highways is scary and dangerous.

      Remember that just because you think you can control a car at high speeds, and maybe your car is nice and new and overly engineered, many other people aren't. And you have no more right to the road than they do.

  26. Re:Ofcourse, I prefer to remove my EZ-Pass by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 3, Insightful
    and hold it near the rearview mirror when I approach a tollplaza. I can still use the EZ-Pass lane, it's faster and more convenient than paying cash, and there's none of this tracking business to worry about.

    EZPass uses RFID -- Radio Frequency Identification. The point is you're still being tagged unless you put it in an anti static bag or farraday cage. Your trick blocks any cameras from taking pictures of your EZ Pass, yes, but don't you think the cameras at many toll booths grab your license plate as well?

  27. IBM Commercial by calyphus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IBM has been running a commercial recently with three 'tech guys' discussing an EZ pass with two of them implying to the third that he's a fool for not having the pass. Whereas my reaction has always been that he's the smart one for not submitting to having his every trip filed in a database.

    --


    The potato it is uninformed.
  28. 35 years ago in Pennsylvania by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    They stamped the date and times on the paper toll tickets for the Pennsylvania Turnpike. When you exited the turnpike, they compared your exit timestamp with the entry timestamp you received when you entered the turnpike. They had a pre-printed table of elapsed times to translate into average miles-per-hour. If you arrived at the exit too soon, you automatically got a speeding violation. My dad narrowly avoided getting a ticket by being less than one minute short of the violation time. He did not tell the toll booth operator that we had stopped along the way at a roadside park and had a picnic lunch too :-)

  29. Re:Hype and FUD ? by j-turkey · · Score: 3, Informative
    The monitor you have to watch out for is the GPS unit in the black box on ALMOST EVERY CAR with airbags


    This is simply incorrect. First of all, black box recorders for cars are still experimental. They are not sold in any new cars today (unless you read something in the latest Autoweek, which has not made its way to my door yet).



    The only vehicles that have a GPS which sends a signal when the airbad is deployed are cars equipped with OnStar (on GM cars, Mercedes Benz uses a different system run by a company in Texas whose name I cannot remember right now). This is an optional pay service -- you don't have it unless you pay for the service.



    Every car sold today in the US it required to have airbags. They are not, however, required to have a GPS device or an onstar-type system. Car manufactureres are extremely cost-sensitive. They don't just drop $300 systems into cars without telling anyone about it (there are a few exceptions, but this is not one of them). I'm not sure where you're getting your information on this one, but it is simply untrue.


    --Turkey
    --

    -Turkey

  30. Wait a minute... by n0nsensical · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not soon enough, IMHO. Imagine how many countless lives could be saved by using this technology to get wreckless assholes who can't drive safely off the road.

    But they're wreckless! Obviously they can drive safely if they haven't had a wreck!

  31. Logical follow on [was: Re: Invasion of Privacy] by Steffan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think it's actually pointless to argue too much about EZ-Pass being tracked. As soon as its potential use in court becomes obvious, the states will just start including RFID tags embedded in license plates. I don't think *that* will be an opt-out situation...

  32. Incriminate yourself by not using the card... by snevig · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you keep a daily routine & use the EZ Pass on your way to & from work, you would incriminate yourself if you didn't use the card, say, on the way home the same day someone in your office was murdered after hours. It would be circumstantial evidence, but nonetheless it would give the police cause to put your life under a microscope.

    I think there may have been a Law & Order episode that revolved around this idea.

    1. Re:Incriminate yourself by not using the card... by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It would be circumstantial evidence, but nonetheless it would give the police cause to put your life under a microscope.

      They'd have to already have cause to put your life under a microscope before they could subpoena the EZ-Pass records.

  33. Re:I have a solution to this problem by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Informative

    Don't do anything wrong. Then you won't have to worry about the police tracking you.

    That's remarkably naive. If politicians stopped making everything I'm currently doing illegal in a vain attempt to be seen to be doing something, or if police weren't so blindly zealous in their enforcement of laws that the public they are their to serve and protect doesn't want, then *maybe* I would have less to worry about. As it is however, if I change nothing in my behaviour, I'm fairly certain I would be arrested within 5 years - despite not breaking the laws of today.

    It's the old story... make everyone a criminal, then you can detain anyone you want.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  34. no wonder it still went ahead... by goodbye_kitty · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I remember attending a series of lectures on sensor technology given by a professor from rtgers university, and one of points he made on the topic of these RF based toll booths in NJ was that given the cost of installation and maintainence it would have been substantially cheaper to PAY motorists a few dollars each time to use the road and not install the system at all!

  35. a cellphone transmits much higher strength by rebelcool · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These EZ-passes are very weak transmitters. I'm not sure how they work exactly, but they might even be passive ones where they take the energy from outside and retransmit using that.

    In any case, a cell phone requires the ability for the cell tower to hear you from a few miles away. The EZ-pass works in a couple dozen feet.

    --

    -

  36. It's now officialy a religion by Hal+The+Computer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ok, so we've got a holy book and really funny dress.
    My CowboyNeal, we've got a full blown religion on our hands.

    (Oh great I'm surely going to goatse.cx for this.)

    --

    int main(void){int x=01232;while(malloc(x));return x;}
  37. Re:Hype and FUD ? by avdp · · Score: 2, Informative

    Every Toyota has a GPS unit? Do you have any reference for that information? I am reasonably sure you are incorrect and that you are the one spreading FUD.

  38. Re:Hype and FUD ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't know about Toyota, but this is NOT true for EVERY GM car currently being sold. It is true for SOME GM cars currently being sold, namely, those with the OnStar systems. OnStar or not, GM cars (and I think most brands) have a SRS (supplemental restraint system) module that constantly records the last several seconds of mechanical events such as speed, brake application, etc. This data is "frozen" when the airbags are deployed (assuming the SRS module survives, but it'd have to be a pretty bad crash for it not too). But your location is NOT recorded by these events. This info is from a good friend who used to do collision repair at a Chevrolet dealer until last year, and now he teaches the subject at a trade school. We've had discussions on this very subject before...he has a 2002 Chevy pickup with OnStar, and the GPS unit in his truck is a plastic blob by the rear-view mirror.

  39. Get a clue. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Insightful

    (or they'd make political hay from mandating a no-evil-uses-with-EZPass policy, but this is Slashdot, so we all just assume a police state is inevitable, right?)

    Ahh yes, our dear Slashdot, where tinfoil is headwear and 1984 is the bible.


    Rent a clue.

    People organize and strive to obtain more control over their environment. That tendency includes both governments obtaining more control over their citizens/subjects and citizens/subjects defending themselves against such control.

    But institutional groups (such as governments) tend to go on for a long time, accumulating ever more power, while individuals are replaced from time to time. So if nothing is done about it the tendency will be for governments to accumulate ever more power, and become ever more oppressive, until they become so tyrannical that they're attacked from within and/or without and eventually overthrown (which may end up with an even worse situation).

    The founders of this country recognized that tendency of government to accumulate ever more power. They prescribed a system of institutional restraints. But, because the government would eventual work its way around it, they ALSO prescribed ongoing watchfulness by the citizenry, so they can use NON-violent means to back the government off before it goes so far that only violent means will work. "Eternal Vigilance is the price of Liberty."

    Which is EXACTLY what is going on now: New tech makes for new opportunity for spying and oppression. The government starts using it because there's no specific rule against it and it helps them "do their jobs". Eventually the citizens catch on and raise a ruckus. Sometimes this ruckus results in the creation of specific rules to suppress the misuse and restore the status quo ante (or even improve on it).

    Slashdot is all about new uses of technology. "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters." And what matters more than government misuse of new tech to oppress the citizens?

    So of COURSE it shows up here. Of COURSE it makes up a significant fraction of the news items. Anybody can post, but ordinary citizens greatly outnumber the elite controllers. So of COURSE the bulk of the voices are against the new misuses of technology.

    No tinfoil hats required.

    This is a very healthy process. It's exactly what the founders of the country prescribed, to keep the country from developing into a tyranny and prosperity from degenerating into civil war.

    Ridiculing the people criticizing the government's misuse of technology is NOT "conducive to these ends". But it does tell us something about the ridiculer:

    Either he's a fool -

    or he's on the wrong side.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Get a clue. by The+Original+Atrox · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nicely put sir, I wish we had more posters as informed. It is truely alarming how few people in this nation even realize the Constitution was primarily limitations on the government, not limitations on the citizens... as it is often interpreted today. Even less feel obligated to take any sort of action, but thankfully, as you pointed out, a good many of us feel the need, and fufill it, to atleast get our voices heard, through this public moderated media that /. has created, wisely, for this amung many other reasons. Continue to post bravely sir, and keep up the good work!

      Atrox

      --
      -Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
  40. Re:Hype and FUD ? by thelexx · · Score: 4, Informative

    You seem so sure of your info, and yet a quick Google for 'automotive "black boxes"' show that you are the one who is incorrect. In fact, not only are the black-boxes already deployed, they have already been used against people in court. They are not yet required by law, but they are out there and in growing numbers.

    http://privacynotes.com/EDR_Automotive/

    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/automotive/20294 12 /detail.html

    http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/33 84 756.htm

    http://www.seniormag.com/headlines/blackboxcars. ht m

    --
    "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
  41. The system is sneaky by design by mi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why do they insist on this devices being registered and what not? Why can't I anonymously buy and/or recharge it at a gas station? If it can be done with cell phones, it is certainly possible with these -- much simpler -- devices.

    I suspect, it is so by design. We are dealing with the government, after all...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  42. Transponders for monitoring traffic conditions? by lucifer_666 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Your authority says the transponders along the freeways and highways are used to monitor traffic and create real time traffic maps for the internet... cool...

    But why use these transponders which have to read unique EZPass numbers, when all they need is little pressure strips in the road, like at red lights, which would be much, much cheaper, and of course the privacy concerns would be greatly diminished?

    I would put it to you, dear reader, that this transponder issue is dodgey. Here in Melbourne we have web based traffic maps, and signs on the road to say how many minutes until such and such exit, and it's all done very well and accuratly without the need for transponders or uniquly identifying each vehicle.

    In fact, thinking it through a little further, if the ostensible purpose of this system is traffic management, why on earth would you *want* unique information? Surley you would be more interesed in aggeragate statistics...

  43. Re:Hype and FUD ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    ...we went around the block like nine times, the onstar rep came on and asked us if we needed help...
    Bullshit alert. This is like the "Urband Legend" of the car with Onstar that had a rep come online because the car was on a ferry, and the rep thought the car had driven into the lake.

    Just doesn't work that way. First, the OnStar GPS tracks position only - there is no geographic data until the coordinates are uploaded to Onstar's service center. And, the car doesn't have some sort of telemetry system that's constantly broadcasting information - the connection is through the AMPS cellular network, which is god-awful expensive to use and takes around 10 seconds just to send through the coordinates.

    With the purchase of a Caddy, you get the premium service for free for the first year (other cars get basic service). So, if you touch the blue button, you'll get a rep, and they'll likely offer to help. But you need a tinfoil hat if you think that someone's constantly watching you drive around to see if you're lost.

  44. Re:Example of Encroachment by nytmare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Like voter registration and driver's license records being sold to marketers.
    Like data that the driver wasn't told existed being pried from OBD II vehicle computers.
    Like telemarketers scanning entire phone books for target lists.
    Like phone-sex and psychic lines nabbing your home phone number through their ANI service.
    Like HTML "web bugs" embedded in email messages.
    Like bars and clubs reading your ID, then secretly entering the info into a database.

  45. Speaking of tin foil hats ... by krygny · · Score: 5, Informative

    The E-Z Pass comes with a mylar/metallic bag (looks like a typical anti-static bag) in which you can place the unit if you don't want it to be detected (e.g., if you elect to pay cash at the toll booth you won't be charged on your EZ Pass account). That's why I just place it on the dash when I go through a toll, then I put it away.

    --
    Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
  46. "This note is legfal tender" by Gallowglass · · Score: 2, Informative
    Can't speak for American law, but in Canada, "the form of payment can be whatever is mutually acceptable to the parties in a transaction, and this is a matter of private agreement between those parties."

    The above quote comes from the Bank of Canada's website has a FAQ on the use of currency and what you use and how you use banknotes to pay debt.

    Does the vendor/retailer have to accept banknotes or coins. Not really, and I suspect that the law is probably the same in the US since the majority of this law is common or case law. An exception is The Currency Act which sets out limits on a tender of payment in coin. The specific limits can be seen at the above site."

  47. Re:People can be so silly by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They have no problem using their cell phones, have blogs, PDA's, WiFi, and all sorts of other goodies. As if all those are real private and not giving off anything.

    There is a bit of a difference. Who I talk to, what I think, what websites I visit and what games I play on my Visor don't make much evidence that can be used to falsely implicate me in a crime.

    Where I am, can be! Before you start talking about how far fetched it is, I'll tell you that I was threatened by a cop once with precisely that. Sgt. CJ Hartman, formerly of the North Versailles PA police department threatened to do just that.

    I will do everything I can to prevent men like him from having access to data that can prove that I was within 10 miles of a place where some crime was committed.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  48. Re:Hype and FUD ? by Sneftel · · Score: 5, Informative
    Oo! Let's play a game! It's called "actually read the articles you link to"!

    "most recorders store only limited information on speed, seat-belt use, physical forces, brakes and other factors."

    "gives critical data about speed, breaking and seat belt use."

    "Generally, all newer cars with air bags are equipped with modules that determine when the bags are deployed."

    and, the piece de resistance, from your last link:

    EDRs record the following data:

    Vehicle speed (five seconds before impact)

    Engine speed (five seconds before impact)

    Brake status (five seconds before impact)

    Throttle position (five seconds before impact)

    State of driver's seat belt switch (On/Off)

    Passenger's airbag (On/Off)

    IR Warning Lamp status (On/Off)

    Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment

    Ignition cycle count at event time

    Ignition cycle count at investigation

    Maximum velocity for near-deployment event

    Velocity vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event

    Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum velocity

    Time between near-deploy and deploy event (if within five seconds)

    Gosh, no GPS. Funny thing. Ya don't suppose those boxes might NOT have been meant for Keeping The Man On Top(TM)?

    Gosh, it's unthinkable. Quick, put the tinfoil hat back on. They's a-coming.
    --
    The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
  49. Ruling Innocent Men by ticklemeozmo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "There is no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to track down criminials. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so things to be a crime that it is impossible to live without breaking any laws."

    -- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"

    --
    When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
  50. Re:I have a solution to this problem by chthonicdaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful
    AC said: Don't do anything wrong. Then you won't have to worry about the police tracking you. Problem solved, mmkay?

    Like you keep your nose clean? Have you ever:
    • Jaywalked
    • Copied music from a friend
    • Copied non-free software from a friend
    • Photocopied an entire textbook/manual
    • Driven while over the legal alchohol limit (but still 'ok to drive')
    • Driven over the speed limit (like ever)
    • Parked (briefly) in front of a no-parking zone
    • Been in the posession (of course not inhaling) of narcotics


    All of these things are illegal (at least in my country). This does not mean they are wrong. 'Just don't do anything wrong' is a very broad statement, and does not solve the bigger problem of getting fair laws. In fact, it was illegal in my country (South Africa) to have sex with a person of a different race or the same sex, to speak against the government was not illegal but often punished. If everyone had taken your view, we would still be in the old apartheid era. That Mandela dude was just a troublemaker -- he just 'shouldn't have done anything wrong'.

    OK, now I'm entering rant mode. America itself was founded on lawbreaking. The Boston tea party? I could go on, but I suppose I should have ignored you. The problem is that the laws aren't always fair, meaning that not everything 'against the law' is 'wrong' (and vice versa). Think about that.
    --
    Languages aren't inherently fast -- implementations are efficient
  51. Roads: NJ vs. PA by solprovider · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I lived in NJ through driving age. Now I live in PA.

    As a child, I heard complaints about how the tolls did not disappear after the roads were paid off. When I moved to PA, I learned that having somebody pump your gas was to cut down unemployment, not somehow a safety issue. I also heard that the toll systems kept people employed.

    I was poor in both states. I know all the roads to use to avoid the tolls, but they are much slower. Now my time is worth more than the tolls, but a decade ago I often took the back roads to avoid tolls.

    NJ is willing to implement EZ-Pass because it allows them to keep the tolls while disrupting the driving less. Obviously the tolls are important revenue. Also obvious is that they are using EZ-Pass for the convenience. They even moved the toll at the Delaware bridge to make the untolled exit easier, and to build a fast lane for EZ-Pass users.

    PA does not have an untolled exit; you must give PA money to use the Delaware bridge. PA is also building new exits on the Turnpike that only accept EZ-Pass. There was a rumor that EZ-Pass would only pay for itself if enough people ran the tolls and were fined. Then it was rumored that enough people were not doing it. Now PA is making it impossible to exit without EZ-Pass. And if you think that signs make anything obvious, you have never driven in PA. (I made a wrong turn today because the signs said the left lane turns left and the right lane turns right. The road did continue straight, but I think you had to drive between the lanes to stay on it.)

    People like tolls and taxes on gas because they believe that the revenues are collected from the people who benefit from their use. They need to feel this money is used for the roads. If it was announced that toll money was going to be used for education, people would revolt.

    If you wonder what NJ does with the money, try driving in PA. The roads are awful compared to NJ. I saw NJ repave about 40 miles of the Parkway over a weekend, one lane per day. PA cannot repave 20 miles of a highway in less than 2 weeks. It took PennDot 6 months with one lane closed at all times to "widen" a 2-lane highway to 2 lanes with better shoulders. Part of this may be because NJ uses blacktop and PA roads are typically concrete. Part of it may be because PennDOT is a very unorganized and/or corrupt department.

    NJ roads are some of the best I have seen. A report in the 80s listed the Garden State Parkway as the safest road in the US, and I wondered how it could be when it was usually 70mph bumper-to-bumper traffic. A factor is that in NJ you always move right when a faster car is coming behind you. NJ drivers keep moving in heavy traffic; it takes an accident, bad weather, or a patrol car to get them to slow down (a little.)

    PA has some of the worst roads I have seen. PA passed a "stay right" law recently, but no one noticed. The left lane of most 2 lane roads often moves slower than the right lane. And when it is bumper-to-bumper in PA, everybody slows down to 20mph and stops erratically. This may be necessary to avoid all the potholes.

    In NJ, I worried that salt from the ocean and the weather would ruin my cars. In PA, I worry that the roads and the potholes are going to shake my cars apart. (Do you plan to have a flat tire at least once per year?)

    Some factors for the difference in road quality:
    - NJ is a richer state with a denser population. - The tolls contribute to road upkeep, and...
    - NJ has 2 toll roads that cross the state in different directions, while PA only has one and it misses most of the state. (Not that you'd want to go there.)
    - NJ just cares more about roads, and has a DOT that works.

    ---
    Side note: I refuse to get EZ-Pass, even though driving to my best client almost requires the PA Turnpike, because I believe the issues in this article are inevitable. I don't have a tinfoil hat, but why make it easy for them? (And I drive sports cars that get lower mpg when under 70mph.)

    --
    I spend my life entertaining my brain.
  52. Re:Thought it'd be more balanced... by a24061 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    automated speeding tickets ... They just want an excuse to pull over minorities and a nice steady revenue stream.

    Automated speed limit enforcement contributes to the second goal but not to the first. If anything, speed cameras (for example) catch speeders objectively regardless of their appearance.

  53. Re:My '94 Escort by pmc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I consider my driving habits private

    Interesting, as driving is done in a public place.

  54. Almost by festers · · Score: 2

    While you are 100% correct about signalling, you are dead wrong about being hit from behind. In every state I've lived in, if you hit someone from behind, regardless of what they were doing, you are at fault. You need to be able to stop, which in most cases means STOP TAILGATING. Sure there are plenty of stupid things people do, but the law says you need to be prepared to stop if necessary.

    --


    -------
    "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
  55. Uh, NO. by Svartalf · · Score: 2, Informative
    I don't know why your post was moderated up as Informative. It's not very informative at all.

    "E-Z Pass boxes are designed to work through large metalic objects, probably because they have to be able to do so to operate."


    The E-Z Pass card happens to be just yet another RF ID tag. Place the tag behind a metal shield and the thing won't work. Put it in a metalized anti-static bag (Instant Faraday Cage...) and it worn't work. So, how would the EZ Pass readers see a tag through large metallic objects, hm?

    "Those trucks are perfect for jamming a standard RFID signal, but E-X Pass still operates."


    How are they perfect? EZ Pass works by placing a tag in the windshield or front bumper of the vehicle in question. Better yet, how would they "jam" the signal. Jamming implies emitting interfering RF energy- the trucks might shield the signal coming from the reader if the tag's not in the proper place (windshield or bumper), but that's not the same thing and isn't really applicable in this context.

    "Hiding the box will most likley put it closer to the ground where the speeding sensors are, not farther."


    Okay, what "speeding sensors"? It doesn't take special sensors or rocket science to determine that someone was speeding by computing the time it should take from one reader point to another and then determining how long the tag took (by way of being on the vehicle) to go from one read point to another. Shorter times implies speeding at or above a given average speed at some point on the trip.
    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas