3-Button Mice - An Endangered Species?

eschasi asks: "eschasi recently got a new job, which includes a new PC on which to run UNIX and X. After much grovelling through the vendor catalog and the used equipment boxes for a simple 3-button mouse, he finally had to bring one from home. Shortly thereafter he was browsing the local CompUSAs and BestBuys, and saw not a single actual 3-button mouse. Oh yes, there were things which masqueraded as 3-button mice, but they weren't. They were scroll mice where you had to depress the scroll to get a middle click, or where the third button was under the thumb, or where the third button was unreachable because of the scroll. Sun's still come with 3-button mice, so there must be some being made. Are these still in the retail market anywhere? Frankly, they're too small for eschasi's big hands. The only place a basic 3-button mouse was found for sale was eBay, and they guy selling it called it 'rare.' Is the classic 3-button mouse largely dead? If so, what are you folks moving toward?"

Comments

How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[wowbagger]

I don't understand why the story poster differentiates between a "three button mouse" and a scroll wheel mouse in which the wheel is the third button.

True, some scroll mice have the problem that the wheel will generate scroll events when the scroll wheel is clicked. If this is a problem, then simply configure X to NOT recognize such events. Voi la - a three button mouse.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[I Be Hatin']

I don't understand why the story poster differentiates between a "three button mouse" and a scroll wheel mouse in which the wheel is the third button.

Because the middle button on a wheel mouse is a lame excuse for a real button. My middle button is a big , wide button with a stable feel to it. In other words, it's intended to be a button. The middle button on every wheel mouse I've tried is narrow, awkward, and obviously not intended to be a button in the first place.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[sporktoast]

Myself, I'd certainly differentiate between a scroll-wheel mouse and a generic three-button mouse. When I want to press the middle button, I don't want it rolling around under my finger (or tilting, the way some of the track-point style ones do).

That said, I think the poster just isn't doing his homework. I realize that Micro Center is only in about 13 States, but their online store seems to have about a half dozen likely candidates. $1.50 for a white Belkin, or be a big spender and plop down a whole fiver for the same, but in black.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[nocomment]

because in newer x apps (galeon for example), the third button on the scroll actually does the same thing it does in windows ( becomes a multi-headed arrow in a circle, which you simply move the mouse about to scroll in any direction ).

Really, a Scroll mouse with third button emulation is the way to go. YOu get the best of both worlds with that. YOu get the scroll events in the apps that recognize them, and still get to keep middle-click pasting.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[yosemite]

I have been using a logitech 2 button/wheel button optical mouse for at least a year. After using this device for extended periods of time I can confidently say that its just as easy to use a middle scroll as a middle button.

I have learned.

I can't speak for you, or the freakish condition of your flippers, but for me it is just as easy to use a thin scroll wheel as a fat middle button.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[DrZaius]

The productivity gained by the scroller is worth not having a real button. The scroller functioned fine and did not have a problem on every scroll mouse I've used. I use X quite a bit, which means a lot of middle mouse button clicking. Sticking with Logitech and Microsoft through the ages has served me well.

Everyone I've ever discussed it with agrees that the optical scroll mouse is the pinacle of mice technology.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[IM6100]

What is 'Intellipoint'? I've never installed one of those CD's that came with a MS wheel mouse into Windows. And I've never seen an 'intellipoint' app on my X based machine (NetBSD with fvwm2).

The middle button simply acts as the third button on my machine.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[Brandybuck]

I'm using the original Trackman Marble 3-button. It's awesome.

What's wrong with a scroll wheel? Several things. First, most scroll mice aren't wide enough for three fingers to rest naturally. A two button scroll mouse that isn't any wider than a two button non-scroll mouse is too narrow.

Second, given a wider two button mouse that I can comfortable rest my middle finger on, I need a scrollwheel that is stiff enough that I'm not scrolling accidentally all the time.

Third, a scrollwheel isn't a button, even though it can act like one. It doesn't feel like a button. What if instead of two buttons and a scrollwheel, there were only one button and a scrollwheel? Click on the scroll wheel for the RMB. Do you think people would be happy with that? Of course not!

Fourth, and most important, why shouldn't I have a real middle button? Since 98% of my computing is done in a UNIX environment, that middle button gets used a lot. More often than the right button in fact.

A scrollwheel is convenient. I won't deny that. But why must it be on the mouse. Think about it. You don't position anything when you're using a scrollwheel. And you don't need any fine control over it. A scrollwheel on the middle-bottom of the keyboard would be much more convenient. Or keep it on the mouse but put it on the left side by the thumb.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[leonbrooks]

I use an AOpen O-35G total-of-five-buttons-including-one-on-a-scroll-wh eel optical mouse. The two scroll-wheels are both fairly broad and positive, but only one of them is clickable. I saw this as a shortcoming when I first bought it (wanted an extra button), but IRL I use the second wheel for scrolling and the first as a button. That way, I don't risk "nervous finger", a disease occasioned by using Microsoft scroll-wheel mice that treat the gentlest caress of the wheel as a click. The AOpen mouse is also lighter than most other mice (except for frail/unreliable brands like Dexxa), which makes it less wearing to use, and more manageable for kids.

Specifically for children, I use and recommend a matchbox-sized optical scroll wheel mouse I get from Big W's stationery department. It is labelled "GO TECH COMPUTERWARE | Keycode: 439 2347 | Model: IA20074B | N433 | Made in China". The red LED in it is easy to change for another colour. The LED's frequency/spectrum doesn't seem to matter, as long as it is high efficiency.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[FreeForm Response]

A scrollwheel on the middle-bottom of the keyboard would be much more convenient.

Check it.

Maybe not the middle bottom, but still pretty cool, if you ask me. Microsoft may suck at a lot of things, but they can usually churn out pretty decent hardware.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[qed123]

I picked up a Logitech optical mouse from Wal-mart like a year ago, and before I had actually tried it, I had many of the same reservations as you. However it took like 20 minutes for me to fall in love with the scroll wheel/middle button. I find that I rest my index finger on the scroll wheel, and my middle finger on the right button. I've never really paid too much attention to the pure size of the mouse however, if it got much bigger it would definitely start being a little cumbursome. Now the wheel has these notches. I agree with you if it was easy for the wheel to turn all of the time it would be annoying. However it has like these 18 degree notches in the mouse and unless you turn it beyond the notch it doesn't scroll at all. And to be honest with you, the scroll wheel just "feels" like a middle button to me, the click and pressure and everything involved in pushing it down just feels right on. And I know you don't think that a scrollwheel on the mouse would be very convienient...and at first I definitely wondered why the heck you would want such a thing?? But hey it's soooo nice to be able to click anywhere on a page or document and be able to scroll up and down without moving all the way over to the app scroll bar. I should add that if you have the keyboard stashed away, like to make room for a bowl of cereal when your checking the morning news sites or Slashdot, the scroll wheel is very very useful, especially with middle button set to open link in a new tab in the background in Konqueror or Mozilla. Also the only time that the scroll wheel depressed behaves like the stupid (turn into scroll mode, move mouse up and down to scroll browser) is in Mozilla, and I'm pretty sure that that's an option during compile time. Otherwise it behaves exactly like a middle mouse button in every other application and environment. I think I had to add a line to my XF86Config file, but since then it just works awesome in practically every X app.

I guess I am giving this mouse a big couple thumbs up. It being optical I've never needed a mouse pad and it's never needed cleaning, and the greatest thing....it's Extremely inexpensive, like in the $10 range (or maybe less, it was like a year ago when I got mine.)

You should check it out and see if you like it!

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[Glonoinha]

Is it my imagination or did that Microsoft keyboard take the function keys and make four groups of three across the top (deviating from the normal four groups of three)?

Holy fuck, why not just rearrange all the keys on the damn keyboard while they are at it. I don't even think about keyboarding anymore - after 20+ years the keyboard is simply an extension of my thought process, words move from my head to the screen in a swift fluid motion ... and things will go bad when they start dicking with the layout.

Look at the keys in the center cluster, the insert/delete/home/page up/down/ are all fucked up too.

Microsoft if you are listening, don't jack with the layout. Keyboard layout isn't an opportunity to express your artistic inner being, it is a standardized user interface. You will sell a LOT more keyboards if you extend the standard layout rather than fuck it up. I want one of those keyboards with a scrolly wheel, but there is no way I am buying that whacked version.

That said, FFResponse, I agree with you 100% - Microsoft makes some killer hardware, mice in particular. You can have my Microsoft 5 button Intellimouse (red light) when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. As I recall, their joysticks are top notch also.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[ShavenYak]

What's really funny is that I'm sure they rearranged the center cluster to save space. But then, they wasted that space and more with the huge expanse of darker plastic on which they've put five tiny buttons, a rocker, and a wheel.

That's like the epitome of bad design, but it's not just Microsoft. All the "internet keyboards" have similar idiocies. I guess that's why I still use an IBM Model M at home.

Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button?

[NeMon'ess]

I like the idea of 4 groups of 3 buttons. If I'm not looking at the screen, feeling for the key I want would be just a little more simple.

As for the center cluster, they've been made more useful. In Windows, the Insert key is almost never used anymore. The Delete key is quite often used, and makes more sense to an inexperienced user than the Backspace key. I, and probably the majority of others, use Home more often than End. In the new arrangement, Page Up and Down are one key-width closer.

Let me see

[ttfkam]

Standard 3-button mouse or wheel mouse. And you want the standard 3-button? Hunh?

There's a reason they're not being sold as much. You can click a wheel perfectly well, but you can't scroll a button.

Re:Let me see

[trentfoley]

You can click a wheel perfectly well, but you can't scroll a button

Sounds like a song by REO Speedwagon.

While the wheel can and does function as a button, I can understand the frustration of the poster. I have used various wheel mice and have yet to find consistent feel even between identical models (logitech cordless freedom pro excluded). On some mice, scrolling the wheel inadvertently generates clicks if the spring is too soft. If too hard, you generate scrolls when having to force the click.

For those that are used to a true 3 button mouse (we are slowly dying off) there will never be an acceptable substitute.

And, yes, I am typing this on an IBM Lexmark Keyboard. clickety clickety clickety

Re:Let me see

[rekkanoryo]

I use a Microsoft Trackball Optical (I hate M$, but I have to admit they make damn nice keyboards and mice). Actually I have 4 of them, one on each of my PCs. They provide a consistent feel on the scroll wheel, and the wheel is sufficiently large to pose as a 3rd button for me. There are also two extra buttons that are slim and long on the outside of the mouse--these are excellent for remapping things to the mouse. And they are very difficult to hit by accident, but not difficult to click on purpose.

On the other hand, I've found that the Logitech scroll wheels are far too soft and sometimes register as many as five scroll events when it should register only one. I will, however, admit that I haven't yet tried the model you speak of.

For regular mice, I've found the Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical the ideal mouse--its scroll wheel has an identical feel to the four Trackball Opticals that I have. It is a basic mouse with just two buttons and the scroll wheel that can act as a middle button. It's the ONLY non-trackball mouse I've ever found that fits my hand properly--all others are too small.

Hope this helps

Scroll wheel

[Cuthalion]

Is the classic 3-button mouse largely dead? If so, what are you folks moving toward?

You mean what did everyone start using so long that nobody even makes the old 3-button mouses anymore?

Most people I know use wheel mouses, duh. I use a Logitech Trackman Wheel.

In Windows the third mouse button was never very heavily used, which is why it's being relegated to the secondary function of the scroll wheel, which gets used tons. I for one find the soft rubbery click of the scroll wheel a sublime tactile sensation. Plus it scrolls stuff!

Though really, what's wrong with clicking the scroll wheel to middle click? It's in the middle (like the old middle button used to be) and if you have a stiff enough one (logitech!) then you won't also accidently scroll while doing it.

Re:Scroll wheel

[Thing 1]

I for one find the soft rubbery click of the scroll wheel a sublime tactile sensation.

Your finger goes from solid form to gaseous without stopping at the liquid state in between? Neat!

PS Welcoming the sublimating overlords as well. ;-)

Button Numbers on Mice

[Bombcar]

Didn't you get the memo? The number of buttons is like the size of the subwoofer or speed of the processor! Get with the timez!

1 button mouse: Click your single |3u770n, n00b!
2 button mouse: Stiff, corporate dweeb.
3 button mouse: Trying to be cool
5 button mouse: Cool in a Yugo sort of way
7 button mouse: Almost there.
9 button mouse with scroll wheel: H4x0r g0d!

Of course, I blow everyone away with my 105 button mouse.....

No wheels?

[MachDelta]

IMHO, yes, 3 button mice without wheels are dead.

Why? Wheels are just too handy for browsing the web to not have one. And since quite a few million people tend to use teh interweb on a regular basis, wheels are quite popular. So it only makes sense that you'd find them on every product out there - consumers want, producers give. Hell, i've got a scroll wheel on my keyboard! (Logitech Elite)

For most people, theres just no good reason NOT to have a wheel on their mouse. The third (middle) button function is built right into the wheel (wheel-click), so you loose nothing while gaining extra functionality. Whats not to like? :)

PS: I use a Logitech MX500, and its awesome. Two thumbs up (just beware of Logitech's drivers :P)

Re:No wheels?

[meta-monkey]

I love my Logitech MX500. It's great in OSX 10.3, because I map the Expose features to the extra buttons. I love having the "show all windows" feature right under my thumb.

Re:No wheels?

[futuresheep]

Here's a tip: Get some Teflon Baking Sheet liner. It's the best for these mice.

Link

It's feels like you're on a sheet of ice, well, without the coldness. I've had one scotch taped to my desk for several years now, and it's just now needing replacement. Using a regular mousepad feels like slogging through mud compared to the Teflon Sheets.

105 button mouse

[satanami69]

I was hoping to see a keyboard that had a mouse wheel sticking out the bottom and you'd have to move it around with two hands.

So disappointing...

Not google, but froogle

[satanami69]

Although they are the same.

Search: large 3 button mouse

Plenty to choose from.

Re:Not google, but froogle

[Kris_J]

Froogle is superb. Here's a link for "3-button mouse -scroll".

WTF

[Frequanaut]

Seriously, the wheel is just fine for a middle mouse button.
Looks like it's a slow news week. Isn't there a SCO story to post or something?

IBM -- I have a 3rd Button, and a Scroll*Point*

[Hollinger]

I stand by my IBM Scrollpoint Optical. You get a very nice ambidexterous mouse that happens to have three buttons, and instead of a scroll wheel, you get a pressure sensitive scrollpoint, which is similar to the eraser heads featured on IBM laptops. The scrollpoint even glows blue, contrasting the red LED for the optical sensor.

360 Degree scrolling is very useful.

Costanza

[irix]

eschasi asks: "eschasi recently got a new job..."

George is getting upset!

Here you go

[n00bieriffic]

Hop your happy ass over here and get your 3 button mouse.

Don't always just look on the shelf, ask somebody.

-------

Perfit: Quite possibly the perfect 3-button mouse

[helixblue]

I've been using 3-button mice since the PC Paintbrush IV days, and I have to say, I still use them every day. Nothing like that big middle button to slap to pop browser links into new tabs, and paste text.

At first I used to be a fan of Logitech, SGI and Sun's 3-button mice, but now I don't leave home without a Contour Perfit Mouse. It's 3-button, and there are not only left and right handed versions, but multiple sizes for each. It melds into your hand, so you only have to inch forward a bit of muscle in each finger to press a button. Very nice and ergonomic.

I'm dying to try out their new optical mice myself. They were pretty slow to the game there, to be sure. I do like where they've put the scroll button for those.

Long live the *real* middle button.

Re:What I want

[kommakazi]

Maybe you should be contacting the patent office rather than telling everyone your (imho) really good idea.

Scroll wheels are already obsolete.

[Zero Sum]

I have a differing opinion.

I use a LogiTech Trackman Marble FX.

Left button, middle button and right button AND if I tilt my thumb slightly it hits the fourth button and the 2" (approx) ball becomes a scroll SPHERE. It scrolls both vertically and horizantally. I have had the device for a number of years, it has never needed cleaning and about the only improvement that I could think off would be batteryless IR (which I don't think exists yet).

Every person who has sat at my desk and used it has gone out and bought one. There is simply nothing better in the marketplace that I or anyone I know has ever seen.

It makes any other kind of pointing device look sick.

Re:Scroll wheels are already obsolete.

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally somebody who has a clue.

The Trackman Marble FX (the original!) is THE best pointing device. Strangely enough it is widely unknown, and people seem to object to it - without actually trying to use it - because it is different. It's accurate, reliable and has a lot of functions. Great for work, great for FPS. The only thing that is somewhat difficult is right-dragging; but that's something you do not need to do often.

You would have trouble prying my TM FX out of my cold dead hands.

Re:Scroll wheels are already obsolete.

[AllUsernamesAreGone]

Logitech Cordless Trackman Optical is the closest you'll probably get ATM - different styling than the FX and it is radio, rather than IR, cordless.

Maya...

[dr00g911]

Maya was ported from the SGI platform -- so originally many features were coded to support the 3-button mouse.

To this day, the Win and Mac ports still rely on the middle mouse button. (ob one-button-Mac jokes commence...)

Any workstation I've worked on, I've been able to map the scroll-wheel-click to middle mouse button features -- no matter the platform.

An aside: Maya has hands-down the best interface I've ever seen for controlling a 3D camera in a window. It relies on the alt-key and all three mouse buttons that you gesture-click. Very, very fast precise and intuitive.

I'd be interested to try something like that with the new MS mice that scroll up down and sideways. /aside

My current favorite Maya/Comfy scroll click mice (many don't feel good) of late are the Logitech MX series and the Click! series corded opticals (for a few reasons -- ie corded vs. wireless for single-pixel precision, more Mac-like weight, clicker 'feels' right as a MMSB).

Hope this helps

Re:wtf?

[KDan]

What world is the article's author living in? Here in this office I have to bring my own wheel mouse to work because all the lame mice around here are plain 3-button mice (Compaq-rebranded logitech MouseMan mice). You must be on another planet!... How do I get there?? :-D

Daniel

MX-500

[Vilim]

I originally had just a regular microsoft optical wheelmouse, the kind that only had one scrollwheel (clickable) and no side buttons or anything. Then when I got my laptop I found that a touchpad was horribly inadequate for any sort of small moter work, so I picked up my Logitech MX500. This is without a doubt the best mouse I have ever used. At school in one of the GIS labs we have 3 button mice but I still like my logitech better, the wheel just begs to be clicked.

When my trusty Microsoft mouse died on my server (Ok its not quite dead but every hour or so it will stop working completely for ten minutes). I went out and picked out another logitech MX500.

They are damn fine mice I don't know why the poster would need a regular 3 button mouse

CADD work often requires a 3-button mouse

[michael noah]

And many CADD workers are used to the standard button, not a little scroll wheel. I'd guess that many of these people don't care about browsing the web, either.

I actually work at a large corporation where this is the case for many clients of mine, and I've had a lot of trouble finding a simple 3-button mouse for them.

We source our PC's from Dell, and they have 0 3-button mice on their website, and my sales representative could only find 1 that they would resell to us.

I'll agree with the author that this seems like a trend, and not necessarilly a good one.

Re:Masquerading???

[John Hasler]

You also assume (erroneously) that everyone uses either Gnome or KDE.

CG artists use 3 buttons

[frenchie323]

I work with Maya all day long and 3 buttons are required by the software (probably because it started on Unix). I can't seem to find a 3 button mouse for my home computer, so I use a scroll, which, with heavy use, hurts my hand. Depressing a scroll button is a lot harder than a regular one. I have to find a mouse with a soft button...

Re:For God's sake

[Zork the Almighty]

ASK SLASHDOT to fuck my girldfriend for me?

If you're girlfriend is an internet server (plausible), that can be arranged.

Did you search the web?

[petard]

I was recently wondering about this myself, so I searched a bit. 3-button mice are widely available, and are still being manufactured:

• USB
• USB
• PS/2
• PS/2

Or, if you don't want Belkin to get another dollar of yours due to the recent BS they pulled with their routers, there are many others:

• PS/2
• fancy optical
• fancy wireless and optical
• PS/2

That's just what I found during 10 minutes of STFW. And I didn't take all the abuse you did by asking here :-)