Money Problems May Derail First U.S. MagLev Train

PSaltyDS writes "The Virginian Pilot is reporting on the trials and tribulations of what was supposed to be the first MagLev train in regular use in the U.S. The MagLev Project was to cover a portion of the Old Dominion University campus, and start service in 2002, but after $14 million spent, it has yet to carry a single passenger. In the article, several engineering types seem to say the same thing, something like 'A great idea that is just too hard to do without an unlimited budget.' Is a maglev train an impractical fantasy like the personal flying car?"

Comments

If I'm Not Mistaken

[FractusMan]

Don't the Japanese already have one? What do the Japanese have that the US does not, to allow them to create a MagLev?

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[mcpkaaos]

An economy.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Stradenko]

Not only do they have one, it's the fastest in the world.
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/031202/ap/d7v69 id01.htm l

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[MoonFog]

They do, check out this link.
The japanese definately have the economy to do this, like has been mentioned. From the page:
A landmark for Maglev occurred in 1990 when it gained the status of a nationally-funded project.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[foniksonik]

Not just Japan, also China soon, Germany now and others on the way to be sure. It's not the money. It's the lack of interest from those who have the money. 14 million is nothing. MagLev won't happen until a big project calls for it., a big project with a big budget and a big return on investment.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Fnkmaster]

Very high population density and relatively small distance between urban centers combined with a willingness to throw away old conventions to make way for progress?

For example, here in the Northeast, the Boston-New York-Washington DC corridor would be a prime target for a Maglev train - the passenger volume is there, the airports are a huge hassle with congestion, weather problems in the winter, and massive traffic issues (driving to Logan in Boston or JFK in New York - ugh). Instead, we have legislation in Connecticut that prevents trains from going faster than 75 miles per hour for "safety reasons", so Amtrak blows a couple billion dollars on the sleek looking "Acela" trains, which go barely faster than the normal old fashion trains running the express routes. You shave about 30-40 minutes off of your travel time Boston to New York, and pay 3 times as much.

So instead they've had to market it as business class travel and sell it based on amenities instead of speed. Pure insanity. What we need is legislation and engineering working together to get a real high-speed train system down this heavy traffic corridor in place as a proof of concept AND proof of economical viability, so the price per mile can come down enough to build similar capability for longer runs.

Maglev or no, there's no technical reason that I'm aware of that high speed trains aren't running this corridor, just a lack of creative problem solving effort and cooperation between government and industry to get the damned thing built.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Rasta Prefect]

An economy.

You do realize the Japanese Economy has been in the crapper for about the last 10 years or so, right?

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[SuperMo0]

Because they've been building useless things like MagLev trains.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[t0qer]

Don't the Japanese already have one? What do the Japanese have that the US does not, to allow them to create a MagLev?

For the same reason they have better broadband. Geographically denser population than the US.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[benmcgruer]

While I'm not familiar with the demographics of the trial area in the States, the Japanese has three major points which allow them to utilize high-cost public transport effectively.

1) V. High Population Density. This allows you build public transportation routes at a low distance (cost) per passenger.

2) Public Transport Culture. They are used to public transport as a reliable, effective and convenient method of travel. As in Australia, the US still relies a personal cars as the most convenient method of travel.

3) There's already huge overhead on materials and other expenses in Japan, such that the cost of additional technology becomes less significant. This is the same reason why your mobile phone has so many features, while you're lucky if your landline phone has caller id.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Neon Spiral Injector]

But it is a Japanese crapper, it plays music and has a motorised seat.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Scrameustache]

What do the Japanese have that the US does not, to allow them to create a MagLev?

Tiny Japanese people...easier to lift with magnets ;-)

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[cubicledrone]

What do the Japanese have that the US does not, to allow them to create a MagLev?

Competent management less interested in personal ambition, office politics, stuffing their own pockets and corporate bullshit than building something practical and useful on time and within budget.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Sponge Bath]

Tiny Japanese people...

I don't know. Those Sumo wreslters look like they could hide a MagLev train in their ass.

And believe me, it's entirely fair to generalize about an entire population based on its wrestlers.
Just look at the US and the WWF.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[dhovis]

One of the reasons that MagLev trains have not hit been deployed in anything other than demontstration trials is the complexity of the control systems. The least expensive type to build is just a row of electromagnets which are timed to attract and then repell similar magnets on the trains. The timing of these magnetic pulses has to be extremely precise, especially when the trains are traveling at over 300km/hr! If just one electromagnet attracts when it should be repelling, the train will crash. Superconductors don't have that problem, but you do have to seriously shield the passenger compartment from the magnetic fields, which adds a lot of weight.

One alternative I've seen to this is a passive maglev system which uses passive copper coils on the track and "hallbach" magnets on the train. The hallbach magnets create a sinusoidal magnetic field, and as the train moves over the passive coils, the coils produce a repulsive field. As long as the train is moving fast enough, it will rise up off the tracks. If the propulsion fails, the train will just slow down until it lands back on the tracks. No complex control system needed. Also, the hallbach magnets have the unusual property that the magnetic field is only on one side of the magnet, so you need less shielding for the passenger compartment.

There is a real system based on this. It is called Inductrak. It was developed at Lawrence Livermore National Lab. The article I linked to was kind of old, so I don't know if they've made any progress lately.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[kryonD]

Hmmm...me thinks this guy has never been to Japan.

Nobody!, and I mean nobody spends money like the Japanese. Primarily from aspects of their culture such as usually holding parties in restaurants rather than the home like western countries, the sheer number of occasions where gift giving is appropriate, and no less than a dozen major festivals held each year. Japanese economy problems are mainly stemming from corruption in the major banks that is still being cleaned up and an overly inflated cost of living that drives down tourism.

The reason why Japan is in the lead for a useful Maglev, is because they already have a society built around the reliable usage of trains. I've been to Tokyo at least 15 times and I couldn't even imagine trying to get around that city without trains. The same deal applies to cross country travel. The shinkansen (bullet train) is at least 5 times faster than driving a car and slightly cheaper than flying. Everybody uses them. In the US, I'd bet money that 9 out of 10 average Americans couldn't even guess at the cost of a train ride from New York to D.C. The reason why is because most Americans first learn of passenger travel on a train when they see than Amtrack has derailed once again and dozens of people are dead or in the hospital. Plus in most major cities, I'll cite L.A. and Dallas for examples having been to both, you'll never hear someone respond to a complaint on the terrible traffick jams by saying, "yeah, but you can just take the train/subway, it's faster anyways." I'm 29 and most of my friends in Tokyo don't even own cars....they don't feel the need to.

America is fighting a cultural battle on this one. Gas is dirt cheap compared to just about anywhere else in the world and it's just more convenient for every average joe to have a car and drive everywhere. Until this changes, there's not going to be a lot of interest in riding a new high speed, low drag, sexy maglev. Well, other than the geek in all of us wanting to do it once so we can say we did.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[neurosis101]

California has a High Speed Rail Bureau working on a system that will originally connect San Francisico to Los Angeles. After running for a bit, it will then include Sacramento, and finally be linked to San Diego.

They did a TCO/ROI analysis of both High Speed Track and Maglev... the TCO/ROI is supposed to be higher for the Maglev.

So what's the difference? Estimated cost is around 45-60 billion dollars. BILLION. It'll generate income once its built, but its hard to convince the public to spend that amount of money when the state is dire financial need.

For the record, apparantly the project is being half funded by the state, half funded by private companies. They've almost raised the 20 billion to start construction.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[danila]

Sorry to break your theory, but China recently built a MagLev and they are at the same time one of the fastest growing and one of the largest economies in the world.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Anonymous Coward]

If you were at all familiar with Japan, you'd know that Japan's massive public works are a huge mess of insider deals and pork-barrel spending that would have US taxpayers revolting in the street.

The main political party openly keeps itself in power by pushing endless contruction projects for rural regions, which by consitutional quirks, have a vote that counts twice as much as your average urban vote.

These constuction projects aren't needed, and the bureaucratic foolishness is mind-boggling. On a recent trip to Tokyo I went out to a Toshiba building on the outskirts of Tokyo. On a recently built bridge (which, I was told, drastically reduced car's travel time, if you were headed that way), there was literally one car every two minutes. It was discovered that the bridge, if fully used, would require a $25 toll to pay for itself. Of course nobody pays a $25 bridge toll (in addition to the other steep highway charges), so the bridge goes unused. It's been that way for several years now.

I'd love to hear a similar example from anywhere else in the world, particularly on such a grand scale.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[Yokaze]

> Nobody!, and I mean nobody spends money like the Japanese

Well, the Japanense people has the world most personal savings in the world. That is in absolute numbers not per person. (about $10 trillion)

Whereas in the United States consumer spending exceeds savings by leaps and bounds, Japanese citizens are highly conservative in their expenditures and their investments. The normal Japanese citizens' savings far exceeds their annual income, practically an unheard of practice in the U.S.

source

The current economical situation drives the average Japanese to spend even less money, which actually makes things worse. This is actually also the assessment of the Japanese goverment.

> when they see than Amtrack has derailed once again and dozens of people are dead or in the hospital

But they drive car? That is funny. What was the number one cause of unatural death?

> I'm 29 and most of my friends in Tokyo don't even own cars....they don't feel the need to.

Do they go out after 00:00? Or do they go out until 6:00? A car could come in handy. OTOH, you can't drink (or at least shouldn't), and there are also taxis. And compared to the costs of maintaining a car in Tokyo...

> The shinkansen (bullet train) is at least 5 times faster than driving a car and slightly cheaper than flying.

AFAIK, not anymore. For buisness people, flights with ANA can be even cheaper. The JR companies are losing market-share. That is why they faded out the old Shinkansen line, decreasing on-board service, and want faster trains. To be more competetive to the airlines.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[mikerich]

Hmmm - the other country to invest heavily in Maglev technology is Germany. Their economy is not brilliant (to say the least) either !

Growth in Germany has been lousy for the last few years but they are now the World's largest exporter. So some things are still going well over there.

As for their Maglev, the link to Berlin has been cancelled, but the technology was licensed to China. The Chinese have used it to create the new high speed link between Shanghai and its airport and are looking at the construction of a track between Shanghai and Beijing.

Best wishes,
Mike.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[mikerich]

Yes, that's right. As of now, it's cheaper to fly from NY to Boston thank to take the train.

There's a reason for that... airline fuel is not taxed, nor are ticket sales (at least in Europe), nor are airline purchases, airport construction is subsidised by government funding as are the links to connect them to the rest of the transport system.

If trains could get the same tax breaks as the airline industry has been pigging on for the last sixty years things might be different.

Best wishes,
Mike.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[kavau]

What do the Japanese have that the US does not, to allow them to create a MagLev?

A commitment to efficient public infrastructure and to an efficient public transportation system, as opposed to a worshipping of cars.

Re:If I'm Not Mistaken

[glitch23]

The timing of these magnetic pulses has to be extremely precise, especially when the trains are traveling at over 300km/hr! If just one electromagnet attracts when it should be repelling, the train will crash.

And how is that crash possible when it's only 1 magnet that messed up and the amount of time at 300kph that the train would be next to that segment is so small that the wrong magnetic effect at that point in time would be basically zero. If anything it would slow the train down and by the time the train is past that segment, because of the small amount of exposure to that segment, the train would still be going at the same speed because the effect is big enough. Not to mention the fact that the trains wrap around the track and not just sit on top like a regular train does. In order to crash the trains would have to literally pull the track with them in order to "derail".

When has having an the need

[RedHatLinux]

for an unlimited budget ever stopped government before.

Seriously just go with the best most practical solution

what the japanese have

[Anonymous Coward]

What do the Japanese have that the US does not

bouncey pixelated boobies?

Trains are obsolete

[TiMac]

I don't care if they are old-fashioned, MagLev, or what. Just like busses, trains are having issues because no one wants to use them. Both Greyhound and Amtrak are unpopular forms of transportation now--no coincidence.

The only trains that survive are local trains (like the BART) and subways really...but for those purposes there is no reason to have a MagLev system--it is too costly to implement for such a small project. magLev would be great long distance, but again, planes are still more popular and don't take up real estate on the ground.

Trains, planes, and automobiles...the first of the bunch is just dropping out of the equation here in America.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[psifishdot]

In North America maybe, but not around the world.

Amtrak and VIA might not be popular, but the TVG is well used.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[MrLint]

Well I know from Amtrak as i rode it for 4 years while dating my wife. And the problem is not trains themselves.. Amtrak problem is Amtrak. the NEC (north east corridor) Is extremely busy and would be close to self sustaining, but any money it makes is used to subsidize the running of otherwise dead rail lines elsewhere. In NYS the train from NY to albany, montreal, and buffalo are nearly always full. So the passengers are there.

But when you get an organization like amtrak, that launches a supposedly 'high speed' service (acela) that is only 15 minutes faster than the normal train on the same route and costs you twice as much to ride, and cost several millions to build, and was late on its maiden voyage (i think it even broke down). Well This is not a problem with train being obsolete, its a problem with the operator, the operator in this case is Amtrak.

I have about a millions seething hate stories about Amtrak. remind me to tell you one some time.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Fnkmaster]

Agreed 100% on Amtrak. I think the problem is a combination of Amtrak being Amtrak, and the lack of governmental support for Amtrak. The fucking Acela is capable of operating at 125+ MPH, but the state of Connecticut apparently limits its speed legally to 75 MPH. Mind you, this is also Amtrak's fault for not working together with government to sort all this shit out and come up with a technically AND legally sound solution before blowing billions in government subsidized and private capital on stupid projects like this.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Tyketto]

This is a bit out of context. It is not because no-one wants to use them, but a clash of availability versus American culture and lifestyle. For the past 50 years, automobiles have been the core of transportation for Americans, from teenagers on up. But that does not speak the same for the rest of the world.

In my time in Australia, I was WELL introduced to their mass transit systems, in both Sydney and Melbourne. For both cities, Trains, as well as Trams and buses, are their main modes (yes, MAIN) modes of transportation. Yes, people have cars there, but more than 100 million kilometers were travelled by train in 2002 alone; the bulk of it being in New South Wales, and Victoria (44 million and 32 million, respectively) alone.

Trains are very much alive, and will be for a very long time. It is just the United States, which has lacked in picking up on a trend that transports hundreds of thousands of people, in favour of polluting the air with carbon monoxide gases from car exhaust.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[coyote-san]

High speed trains can be faster than flights for short hops.

The reason is the "tails" on your trip. Airports are usually further out from the core city than train depots so you might have an extra 10-15 minutes of travel time on each tail just to get to/from the airport. Then there's delays while the plane taxis to/from one of the few operating runways instead of navigating through the switchyard - add another 10 minutes. And the time to get through security. And an extra 30 minutes (minimum) you want in case there's a backup in security, or the train to/from the concourses is running slow, etc.

When you're finally in the air on a short hop, you might not even spend any time cruising at 500 knots. If you listen to the ATC chatter you'll know that it takes 50-100 miles to climb up to cruising altitude, and the same to descend to the airport. So if your hop is under 200 miles you might not get to cruising altitude, and anything under 400 miles may spend less time cruising than passing through the inverted wedding cake.

Flights clearly win if you're traveling more than a 1000 miles or there's not a direct ground route (e.g., because of large bodies of water or mountains), but there's a strong argument for grounding all flights under 150-200 miles. They clutter the airways and ATC system and aren't that much faster than ground transportation that doesn't make frequent stops. The ATC factor is so bad that som airlines have requested permission to fly below the normal jetways - it's far less fuel efficient and they can't travel as fast, but they don't have delays waiting for available spots in the crowded flight levels.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[SurgeonGeneral]

I don't care if they are old-fashioned, MagLev, or what. Just like busses, trains are having issues because no one wants to use them. Both Greyhound and Amtrak are unpopular forms of transportation now--no coincidence.

Here in Canada, buses and trains are the only mode of transportation within provinces (which are very large) unless you own a car (and want to pay 50-100 dollars in gas... which is the price of a bus ticket) or can pay enourmous fees for the airplane. They are VERY popular, and wont be losing any popularity as long as people still want to see their friends and families.

To cross the country the only viable method of transportation is airplane. Maglev could offer a great alternative to the 6 hour, 800 dollar flight from Toronto to Vancouver. Your shallow argument against using trains for long distance (magLev would be great long distance, but again, planes are still more popular and don't take up real estate on the ground.) is downright stupid. In case you are unaware of your own history and geography, trains have been around for 200 years, and the cross-country tracks that they built for them still exist. Personally I'll take a high speed train over a high-priced plane any day of the week, and the lack of high-speed cross-country trains more than accounts for the popularity of the only other practical mode of cross-country transportation.

But I guess you've never been to Europe, or travelled Asia either. In those densely populated areas trains are by far the best way to travel. Jumping on the Chunnel train is far easier than getting to Heathrow three hours early so the security check can lose your baggage. With the chunnel train someone can live in London and go to work in Calais or Paris. Now just imagine if cross-country, or even inter-province (or inter-state) travel within North America was that cost-effective and convinient. A tourist to Europe will always get a Train pass unless they are not planning on leaving the city they start in. There is literally no other practical way for a tourist to travel within Europe. Too bad the world's biggest industry (tourism) did not cross your mind when you were evaluating trains.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[sugar and acid]

Buses as transportation suck and continue to do so as they have the same speed limitations as a car.

The problem with trains in america is that innovation in train transport died in about the 50's or 60's. I mean look at amtrak trains, they are not different in any fundamental respect to what you could get in the 50's or 60's, that included interior comfort and appointment (this has quite possibly declined over the years), and speed has stayed the same. What happened of course is that airlines had rapid growth in the 50's and even more in the 60's with the introduction of passenger jets and so trains lost out on speed. Also cars were finally consistantly fast enough, and actually comfortable enough for lengthy trips, as well as the introduction of the interstate highway system making car travel fast, (at a huge cost). Before that to travel long distances meant some drivinguncomfortable cars, on often pretty poor quality roads.

Americans just lost interest in trains about that time, the money disappeared and the american rail system got stuck in the sixties. Now you just have to look around the world to see that rail transport is alive and well and a very viable form of transport, just none of the technology was developed or is used in the US.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[at_18]

That may be true for Amtrak, since the US allows his train infrastructure to rot.

Here in Europe no one would even dream about taking an airplane for small journeys. Trains are cheaper and faster, routinely doing 150-200 MPH, and without security delays, airport crap, and so on.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[smchris]

Actually, I've done San Fran to Minneapolis, Minneapolis to Baltimore (twice) and about 14 trips Minneapolis to Chicago by Amtrak and it seemed like most seats were full. And most of the trips were pleasant experiences. A restaurant, sightseeing car and a sleeper is my way to see the U.S. pass by. And I like _walking_ to a hotel in the center of downtown instead if being stuck in some butt-ugly hotel park surrounding the airport.

Before you knock Amtrak outside the NW corridor, you know what? THEY DON'T OWN THE TRACKS!! High speed trains -- you've got to be kidding. The _track_ is so bad between Minneapolis and Chicago, several times we've gone about 25 mph for stretches of miles at a time. Woo Hoo! We ain't becomin' no 3rd world country.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Scudsucker]

Amtrak problem is Amtrak.

Its a bit more complicated than that. Amtrack was in financial trouble, so the gvt bailed them out. Unfortunatly, the senators who passed this bailout insisted that Amtrack still offer services through their home states - places where they don't make any money. So they're stuck in a vicious cycle - they need to become profitable, except they're forced to maintain all these unprofitable routes. I don't see the situation improving until Amtrack figures a way off the goverment dole, or they get bought out by some other company.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Halvard]

Amtrak problem is Amtrak.

Don't blame Amtrak. This is a political mess yet Amtrak takes the blame. Congress mandates that Amtrak act like a lean business yet provide the benefits of a government service. They are required to do things like operate unprofitable routes/timetables, etc. They are in the same long-term no win situation that the Post Office has been put in. When it's a political mess, ultimately, the blame lies with the People for either being 1) too apathetic or 2) too selfish (what? the goverment should pay for X but don't you dare tax me to pay for it).

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Jameth]

You're completely missing the reasons that trains don't take off in the US. Part of it is subsidies to the auto industry which keep that really affordable, and part of it is the American 'We Love Cars' mindset, but you don't seem to get how hard a full train-system is to get working in the US. It can work in big cities, which usually have pretty good public transportation (although not near as good as many places).

The issue is, too many Americans live in other areas and are too widely spaced. You can't put a nice stopping place within walking distance of very many people.

Where I live right now is considered near campus, and I'm three miles distant. Most people at my school commute twenty-minutes every day from a wide area. There is no single place that a train-station could go that would make it even slightly useable.

As such, you end up with people needing cars to drive to the train station, at which point they might as well just drive wherever they want to go.

Also, the US already has an excellent road system in place, and that only needs maitenance. The roads in the US have coverage like nothing most people would believe.

Inside of the the continental US, you cannot get 15 miles from a road, period. There is no location, anywhere outside of Alaska, which is 15 miles from a road in the USA. Putting down that much in the way of train tracks isn't even slightly possible.

And, as trains cannot solve all the problems, they are generally unused in the US.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Lothsahn]

Actually, the problems are more severe. I wish I had the article detailing the financial situation of Amtrak. Unfortunately, I don't have it around anymore.

Passenger rail is not a profitable business.

Amtrak has 2 types of service:

-NEC (NorthEast Corridor) style service, ferrying people back and forth
-Luxury service, with all amenities included.

The first is not profitable. Amtrak pays for all the rail in the NEC, and although it makes money on each individual train, once fixed costs such as rail costs are calculated in, the NEC loses money.

The second is profitable. Because Amtrak charges ~$2k for a bed car and since they rent the rails from freight companies, they can actually make money on the travel across the country.

Unfortunately, the public thinks that the NEC is the profit center and the 'dead rail lines' are the part sucking the profit. The actual situation is reversed.

The problem is that passenger rail is inherently inefficient. Instead of paying constant upkeep for rails, and having to pay all the land taxes to keep those rails going, air travel only has to pay for a select few airports, and then pay for the airplanes flying to and from those airports.

In the United States, the only profitable rail service is intracity passenger and general freight. Touring or luxury travel is only profitable because it uses lines which are maintained for general freight. Unfortunately, Amtrak is not allowed to carry more than 6 freight cars, for fear of competition with freight rail. So to provide nationwide passenger rail, Amtrak is constantly operating in a market which cannot support them.

In addition, freight trains and passenger trains put on the same rails is inherently bad. Since most long-distance rails only have 1 rail line, Amtrak trains must wait to pass freight trains, and head-on trains must divert to allow others to pass. This delays passenger lines, creating headaches for passengers.

This country really needs to decide whether or not it wants to provide rail travel. Rail travel has some benefits over air travel, such as environmental or security benefits. If this country wants rail-travel for these reasons, it needs to provide dedicated-rail, high-speed rail travel for populated areas at a loss of capital. But we must realize that the market does not currently support it, and that no nationwide passenger rail service can be self-supporting.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[bluGill]

Woah there. I'm not a big fan of the train, but it does polute less per passanger mile. A train may have a diesel engine burning 4 gallons of fuel per mile (I have no idea what the true number is, so don't do math based on this) but if there are 100 cars to the train, and 20 people in each car, you need to divide that out. Compare a bunch of cars with 4 people in it getting 30 mpg, and the train already is looking better, then remember that most cars have just one person in them.

Re:Trains are obsolete

[Shadowlore]

Insightful my eye! Amtrak is run by the government. The problem isn't lack of government support, but he government support to begin with!

ge tit inot the private sector where it will have an incentive to make *people* happy, instead of just making a legislator happy by saying he brought jobs via Amtrak.

Only then will you see Amtrak be responsive, productive, and viable.

It wouldn't have happened anyways.

[Anonymous Coward]

FUTURISTIC MAGLEV trains that zoom along guideways at 300 mph on a cushion of air have been heralded for more than three decades as the next global transportation revolution.

But the only version that was hauling passengers -- a low-speed, half-mile people mover at Birmingham International Airport in England -- was junked four years ago in favor of a standard shuttle bus.

Such setbacks haven't dimmed the ardor of international proponents of high-speed maglev (short for magnetic levitation), however, and in fact the chances to build the first systems in the United States seem tantalizingly close. Seven projects, awarded federal grants totaling $12 million, are competing to win $950 million more next year to design and start construction.

One of the seven -- a consortium beginning to build a half-mile test track in Titusville, Fla. -- includes the Long Island scientists who invented much of the original technology. "Within two years, we will have the first working maglev system in America," boasts promotional literature from the consortium, Maglev 2000, which also includes the state of Florida and Dowling College's National Aviation and Transportation Center in Oakdale.

Physicists James Powell and Gordon Danby, both then at Brookhaven National Laboratory, in 1968 pioneered the use of "supermagnets" intended to lift entire trains and whirl them along a guideway. An Army Corps of Engineers report said maglevs could exceed 500 mph when fully developed -- head-spinning ground speed for moving people and goods.

But the United States abandoned its efforts in 1975, and Japan and Germany have dominated maglev research ever since; Japan has built upon Danby and Powell's ideas while Germany came up with a rival technology. Either country could have systems carrying paying passengers in the next few years,but hurdles in funding, politics and environmental protection remain.

There are some technical problems that need to be worked out on test tracks, including stabilizing the fast-moving trains on the air cushion, assuring they can negotiate curves smoothly and developing complex switching networks for trains to pull off main lines and into depots. The Birmingham minisystem was replaced partly because of technical difficulties.

But renewed federal interest is sparking new hopes for maglev in this country. Two years ago, a panel of experts named by the secretary of transportation concluded: "The long-term development of magnetic levitation transportation in the United States is critical to addressing the nation's long-term transportation needs."

Powell said he believes that by midcentury, as regional maglevs emerge, one might be built the length of Long Island, moving freight and passengers swiftly to connecting points such as Grand Central Station and freight depots. Ultimately, the Florida consortium proposes a 20-mile project linking Port Canaveral to the Kennedy

Space Center and Titusville Regional Airport.

Other U.S. applicants are pushing visions including a 45-mile system between Pittsburgh International Airport and the city's eastern suburbs, a 40-mile run between Baltimore and Washington, D.C., and a 75-mile system connecting Los Angeles International Airport to downtown and points farther east in Riverside County.

The federal support has limits, however. Under the law, it would pay only for guideways; state and private sector funds would have to pay for cars, stations and the rest. Congress could also decline to start parceling out the $950 million; the impending retirement of Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-N.Y.), a champion of maglev, could delay the U.S. catchup effort.

Most of the delay in maglev's debut elsewhere has come down to money and environmental concerns. Construction of the German Transrapid system, after years of tests up to 300 mph with people on board, was to begin this year but was stalled again in recent weeks amid battling over the proposed $6 billion, 185-mile Berlin-Hamburg route.

And powerful environm

Stupidity is...

[FFFish]

...ignoring the existing half-dozen working solutions in preference for pissing millions of dollars on a homebrew solution.

Even more stupid is insisting on a maglev solution when there are equally fast and substantially less-expensive traditional solutions, aka the French and Japanese bullet trains. One of those puppies just broke the 500kmh barrier with passengers.

Re:Stupidity is...

[Jordy]

There are significant differences between the *operating* speed of a MagLev and of a conventional train.

A MagLev can run at 581 kph as its top speed and its intended operating speed is 500 kph. This is partly because of its acceleration rate and partly due to the infrastructure. It is also much much quieter allowing it to be run closer to commercial/residential buildings.

The TGV has the current top record for a conventional train at a speed of 515 kph. However, it operates at a max of 220 kph. The JR Central line in Japan operates at about 270 kph.

Now, I'm not sayinng that running a short track MagLev was the brightest thing in the world, but for a long run (San Francisco to LA for instance), it can easily outpace a plane after you take into account the thirty minutes you have to wait to get on and off.

Plus, no one is going to crash a MagLev into a building.

Re:Stupidity is...

[davegust]

Your information is not completely correct. The operating speeds for all but the oldest TGV are at least 300kph.

Your reference seems to be speeds on "normal" rails, but many of the routes in France are designed for 300kph (or higher) speeds, and are used for commercial traffic at these speeds.

Re:Stupidity is...

[rsidd]

The TGV has the current top record for a conventional train at a speed of 515 kph. However, it operates at a max of 220 kph.

No, it does not. It operates at an avg of 300 kph, and a max of well over (around 340 kph). It does Paris-Marseille, a distance of over 800 km, in 3 hours several times a day, and that's with the slower speeds near the origin and destination cities.

Mono... D'oh!

[heldlikesound]

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail!

What'd I say?

Ned Flanders: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: What's it called?

Patty+Selma: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!

[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]

Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...

Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.

Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?

Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.

Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?

Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.

Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?

Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.

Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.

Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.

I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!

All: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: What's it called?

All: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: Once again...

All: Monorail!

Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...

Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!

All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!

Monorail!

Homer: Mono... D'oh!

Is a maglev train an impractical fantasy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, yes it is. Someone better go tell the Japanese that their train doesn't exist...

Re: Is a maglev train an impractical fantasy?

[PSaltyDS]

The Japanese have test trains running on test tracks, and some rosy promises made for future passenger service, but I don't think they have ANY MagLev providing regular service, nor does anyone else. Could those who keep bringing up existing Japanese trains be confusing the "Bullet Trains", which run on conventional but smoother and more precisely built wheels and rails, with MagLev? I have still not seen any examples of running regular MagLev service. And I believe there is a reason why they don't exist.

A pessimistic view

[iamdrscience]

Maglev transportation has been something people have talked about for like 3 decades now and it still hasn't been fully realized in the way it's been portrayed. I doubt it ever really will be. I see it as akin to supersonic flight -- it's faster, but the costs of using it outweigh the benefits in most cases. If you had listened to some of the people around when the Concorde was introduced, all flights would be using this now. It's just not realistic.

I predict there will continue to be only a few, very specialized routes that utilize maglev. I would imagine there are less than 20 routes in the world where maglev truly makes sense.

No.

[DAldredge]

Passenger trains my be unpopular but freight trains currently carry a large portion of the goods in the USA.

They are not going anywhere.

Derailed by Money Problems?

[Rick.C]

Did some kid put a penny on the track?

Re:Impractical Fantasy? Japan, Britain, Germany...

[geekoid]

When deciding if something in imparactical, you have to look at what need it is filling.

Perhaps THIS is of a MagLev is impractical?

Also, what was the end cost of those systems?

Just because they exost, doesn't make them practical.

OTOH, perhaps it was a mismanagement of funds.

14 Million?

[mr_lithic]

Will that amount of money build a mile of highway these days? It seems that public work projects start at 14 Mil and work their way up.

There is money to be made (or saved) in public transport. There are several routes right now that are crying out for fast efficient public transport where maglev is the best answer (London Commuter Corridors, Germany Inter-City and New York to Washington). These are routes which people will pay for faster services. Someone just has to have the willpower and political stamina to bring it to fruition.

Like any new technology, the first one will be expensive and probably not the fastest. But this technology has to start somewhere.

Amtrak NEC goes 120mph

[Anonymous Coward]

Your comments are indeed appropriate for the NYC to Boston segment, but between Trenton and Newark, NJ, the Amtrak caps out at around 120mph. 10% of Pennsylvania's easternmost county, Bucks, commutes to the NYC metro area, thanks in large part to Amtrak. Not to mention the cost of living.. I always tell people I pay a near-rural cost of living with a midtown salary.

You will never ever see the entire DC-to-Boston corridor converted to maglev because the last leg of the rail-based system has a lower speed limit. That's just ridiculous.. try taking the train to Philly one day and you'll see what the rest of us have been enjoying for decades.

Re:Amtrak NEC goes 120mph

[tiger99]

Only 120mph? Is that the best that the US can do? In the UK we have done only slightly better, we have been running regular 125mph trains, diesel-powered even, since 1974 (which held the world record for diesel for a long time, and maybe still do), the renewed West Coast Main Line is eventually supposed to support 140mph, the Channel Tunnel Rail Link is a lot faster, and even then we rightly complain that our politicians have messed up, and given us something far short of what is normal in France or Japan.

In the US, with greater distance to cover than any of these countries, you really need speed. You should lobby your politicians, write letters of complaint to Amtrak, do whatever it takes, till you get such speeds as routine, everywhere, and 160 to 200mph on the longer distances. Rail is safer and more energy efficient than air transport, and on moderate distances quicker between city centres.

Get decent, reasonably cheap rail services, you will find the passengers will come... In the UK we have a particularly competent operating company (GNER) on the East Coast Main Line, London to Edinburgh is 4 hours will several stops in just over 400 miles, 100mph end to end overall. It is well-nigh impossible to beat that by air, although the plane will only be in the air for an hour. The train is far more comfortable, and if booked in advance on the internet, very much cheaper, and in daylight you even get a decent view out of the window, and coming soon, mobile internet as already discused on Slashdot.

These are electric trains, and they are capable of 140mph, but the track and overhead wiring would need to be improved first, which was intended once upon a time, but is not going to happen soon. But,the service is good enough for many people to commute from York, which is about half way to Edinburgh, and property prices in York doubled when the new trains were introduced, maybe about 15 years ago now.

I don't see why both the US and the UK should be left behind by Frogs and Japs, it is time it changed.

A really stupid project from the beginning

[Animats]

Realize how lame a system this is even if it works. It's one car, on a single track, going back and forth over 0.8 mile, in a straight line, at a top speed of 40MPH, on a college campus. Why bother? Japanese, Chinese, German, and British maglevs of greater length and higher speed have already been built.

The Birmingham airport maglev (1984-1995) was more ambitious. And it was so expensive to maintain that it was replaced with a cable-driven system.

The only maglev system being proposed that makes any economic sense is the link from Orlando Airport to Disney World. Disney wants to build that so that their customers bypass all other attractions and go directly to Disney property.

Re: *Amtrak* is obsolete

[King_TJ]

Last year, we decided it would be nice to take Amtrak for a visit to Chicago (from St. Louis, MO), rather than drive all the way up there.

I've always liked trains, though I almost never ride them. I was really looking forward to this opportunity, and was quite let down.

For starters, the train was at least 15 minutes late arriving at the station (in Kirkwood). Then, we were told that Amtrak trains to Chicago never really leave directly from Kirkwood's station. They have to first travel to the downtown station. (So in other words, more wasted time before we really got under way.) The downtown St. Louis Amtrak station is a disgrace. It looks like an old tin shack. Ever since our original station (Union Station) was decomissioned and turned into a shopping mall, Amtrak has never bothered to replace it with anything remotely decent-looking. Then, our train stopped out in the middle of nowhere for at least 30 minutes, waiting for the track to clear up ahead. (Perhaps another Amtrak train broke down? They never did explain.) Then, there were all of the scheduled stops at little stations where it seemed that nobody got on or off anyway. The train cars themselves were at best, in "average" condition. They reminded me of old seats on a bus that needed a good cleaning or reupholstering. By the time we finally arrived in Chicago, I was *very* glad to be off the train, and felt like driving would have been the superior experience. (I still had to get a rental car for the rest of our Chicago trip anyway.)

It's obvious that Amtrak has NO clue how to properly run a public transportation system - and they're rather perpetuate the belief that trains just aren't profitable anymore than take the steps needed to succeed. I really hope they do go bankrupt and govt. doesn't bail them back out. Maybe then, a private investor will buy up the right-of-ways and equipment and run it like a real business!

Maglev Good!. This project, Really Bad.

[strangedays]

Ok, so I forced myself to read the entire article, not easy, its a collection of confused finger pointing, and poor journalistic sound bites, sole intent to fill a news article. Zero Meaningful Content..

To summarize :
They are concerned about how the project was managed.
Concerned that the investment may not get repaid.
There are problems with the control system (not the magnetic levittation system itself note)
The assets are apparently a series of patents. Thats odd really, considering this is a tewenty year old technology.
The board and the university may have screwed up, they didn't put appropriate bonds in place, so now they are all nervous as to who gets blamed.
A board member now blames the technology, saying that others (Japan) could not make it work. This is incorrect.
Another guy refused to invest because of problems with the company (not the technology).
Maglev trains are described as "floats on a cushion of air". Duh. Fine journalism.
FRA has issued a stop work order, as usual asleep at the wheel. Way way way too late IMHO.

Overall, they all completely mismanaged this, tried to invent new stuff that doesn't work, and now need another two million dollar handout to get out of the hole they dug for us, the victim taxpayers.

Oh, and in the process they tarnish the reputation of a transportation technology we actually need.

Thanks for nothing ODU and FRA guys. Do us a favor, go fire yourselves.

It doesn't work there either

[billstewart]

Look at the link there, and the article on the Old Dominion fiasco. Yes, the Japanese train works very nicely on a test track. They've had 30,000 test passengers over N years. They're not running it as a fully-deployed production system, much less a profit-making one. It's very cute, but it's not even as practical as the Disney World Monorail.

Re:A hair dryer can lift 2500 lbs.?

[davegust]

I'm sure someone is preparing the calculations for you. In the mean time, I'll give you some hints.

Hair Dryers - power - measured in watts.

50,000 pounds lifted 1/4 inch - a measure of energy, or work done

energy = power * time

So you just need to factor in the amount of time required to lift the train cars.

I suspect the press release was actually referring to the power loss in the system (as heat) when maintaining 1/4 of lift above the rail.

In comparison, the French TGV system requires 0.0 watts of power to keep a 50,000-pound car lifted several inches above the rail - they use wheels.

China has a commercial maglev.

[Hobbyspacer]

What about the Chinese Transrapid maglev (built by a German company) now running on a 30km track between downtown Shanghai and its airport.

Re:China has a commercial maglev.

[willtsmith]

I've heard all this crap lately about spending trillions to go back to the moon because the Chinese want to build a moon base. It's a bunch of horse shit.

However, I would be happy to engage the Chinese in a "maglev race". We get effective transportation as a side effect. After a while, we may even begin to stop subsidizing new airport construction.

Not in the United States

[0x0d0a]

We don't even have enough users to keep our regular rail lines going without massive government bailouts.

Makes me think of the Concorde

[soccerisgod]

Yes you can do it. They have that kind of technology in actual use in China. Built by a german consortium. But there's a reason this consortium did not get to build one in Germany. You can make one work, but the costs are horrendous. Just like the Concorde's. So, at least for the foreseeable future, it's unlikely you will see this in a western country near you. Not because of physics, but simply for the fact that no sane investor likes the words "unlimited budget".

Just like the flying car...a loser?

[PSaltyDS]

The referenced link is for TEST TRAINS that do not carry regular passengers. Where is there a MagLev anywhere in the world providing passenger service? This is exactly why I compared it with the personal flying car. We've all seen the Moller SkyCar. It can be done in small experimental scales, but is it too impractical/expensive/dangerous for regular service? On the economic viability especially, what added VALUE does a MagLev have over a wheeled train that makes it worth the high cost?

Re:Just like the flying car...a loser?

[PSaltyDS]

I would like to add two interesting links pulled from other posts:

Birmingham International Airport in Britian used to have a MagLev running from '84-'95. It was shut down due to high maintenance cost and replaced with a cable-drawn rail system.

The Shanghai Transrapid looks at first blush like a running passenger service, but look closer and it is a "Test Facility" that gives guided tours and "Demonstration Rides".

There can be no doubt about the technical capabiltiy to build these things, but the practical viability has yet to be seen.

Maglev reality..

[mumblestheclown]

here are some realities of maglev:

• the japanese are doing it right. slow, methodical, engineering-sensible development will probably result in a chuo-shinkansen maglev in 10-15 years at the longest and possibly in as little as 5-10 years. See here for a gentle introduction.
• the chinese are building a maglev shanghai-beijing. every engineer or knowledgable person i have ever spoken to has said that this was a rushed through engineering abortion; an inefficient showpiece really. still, there's something to be said for having it done first, and, if the chinese do it, then more power to them.
• 14 million of research from an ab initio program isn't enough to make a toilet handle on a maglev train. a maglev is something at least as complicated as a 777 given all the supporting things that need to be built such as stations, emergency vehicles, turnouts (switches), safety devices, computer systems, and so forth. 14 million for a maglev project is GUARANTEED not to go anywhere other than perhaps some basic research in electrical systems that the japanese have done long ago.
• a maglev is PERFECT for:
  • the US northeast corridor
  • london-edinburgh via manchester/liverpool
  • tokyo-osaka via the chuo-shinkansen route (duh).
  • hong kong - guangzhou - shanghai

Incidentally, I find Japan Railway Technical Review journal to be a well-written intelligent web site with discussion of the true state of the art of trains. Worth a read if you actually read things in more than the slashdot 3-second scan way.

UK Maglev

[Alan Cox]

Birmingham International Airport had a maglev back in the 1980's. Very cute, technically brilliant and eventually replaced with a bus for simple economic reasons.

Maglev is terribly "neat", but nobody seems to have solved the fundamental problem that if you use just a fraction of the amount of power required to levitate the train to push a wheeled one instead, the wheeled one goes a damn site faster and costs less to run

Re:UK Maglev

[jifl]

> if you use just a fraction of the amount of power required to levitate the train
> to push a wheeled one instead, the wheeled one goes a damn site faster

Well, the world train speed record is held by a maglev.

361mph beats the wheeled train record of 320mph by quite a margin. Not for the same power or cost, but if that were the be-all-and-end-all, we'd all be cycling.

Acela - bombardier problems.

[zerofoo]

Some of the problems were not Amtrak's fault; it looks like Bombardier had some technical problems with the Acela trains.

-ted

But I love those amenities!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't stand the ritual humiliation of air travel... you have to be some kind of buddhist monk or masochist. YOU! Back in line, sheep, or I'll perform an invasive bodily cavity search with unlubricated gloves! Spare me.

No, train travel's the way to go. The other day I rode the Acela to Boston, and two guys got on with holstered guns at their hips... chatting easily, and obviously some kind of private rent-a-cop - nobody batted an eye, nobody wet their pants. Of course that might have been because they were all carrying legally registered concealed deadly weapons like me, or maybe the people who ride trains are just braver and smarter than the sheeple that can stand to ride planes. I dunno.

In 1966, when I was nine years old, I took a flight to North Carolina from Philly. My folks dropped me off at the airport and my grandma picked me up in NC. Nobody thought anything of it, and nobody was searched, or had to pass through metal detectors, or stand in lines for hours.

And no, times have NOT changed. There were just as many rapists, child molesters, and garden variety freaks per capita in 1966 as in 2003.

People have simply become fundamentally weak and cowardly these days.

The US did a lot of work on MagLev a long time ago

[Zeio]

I used to like the metroliner a lot better than flying from DC to NYC. This happened to be the ONLY line that actually made amtrak money. Fast trains, superior service, on time. THe regular trains did suck though.

The US did invest heavily in trains. It was nixed. Probably because of mob mentality. More about that later.

In the 1970's, Secretary of Transportation John Volpe demanded and encouraged and funded LIMRV, Linear Induction Motor Research Vehicle and TLRV. Tracked Levitated Research Vehicle amongst others. Companies including Ford, Garret and Grumman were asked to come up with designs.

Grumman built and tested TLRV, and was tested at 300mph (480kmh).

Garret built a test vehicle had a speed of 256mph (410kmh) in 1965. That is just 12mph shy of a brand new system in China now being readied for use in the Shanghai metro area, but it was done, again, 38 year before.

With the insane resistance to nuclear power (check out France meeting its power needs beautifully and cleanly for a case study as to why to use it), electrical train designs fell by the wayside. The resistance to nuclear power gave birth to the Oil Mafias of today (and the subsequent cartels, OPEC, and undesirable cash flow to undesirable regions), and these trains fell by the wayside.

If you add up all the miles of railroad in the USA, 194,731km/121,000miles, which is huge compared to other companies by raw number or by per-capita (Russia has 87,157km/54,168mi ; China 71,600km/44,499mi ; India 63,518km/39,477mi ; Japan 23,168km/14,400mi ; Germany 45,514km/28287mi ; Sweden 11,481km/7135mi ; UK 16,893/10500mi). Apparently the US does have railway know-how.

I think it is safe to say when large, uneducated public outcry affects the policies of a government, particularly when it is about the root of all economies, energy; you give birth to more evil demons. By creating this negative stigma about the word nuclear (an MRI in a hospital is really an NMR, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance imaging, but people hate "nuclear.") and all things nuclear, you bought yourself an oil mafia, fossil fuel trains, fossil fuel cars, fossil fuel being used to create energy that melts ore into metal for every car, from SUV to Train to Plane to Automobile (about 70% of ALL power consumed in the US is by industry, about maybe 30% is people and their cars.)

Now solving the new crisis will require pragmatism, like wind and nuclear power. But windmills were just recently protested in the Nantucket Sound and despite having personally lived next to a nuclear power plant (there were no cases of thyroid cancer, but several cases of GI tract cancers caused by industrial solvents poured into the water supply) people don't want this new technology, because every time we rolled it out, people bitch.

Think - the SR-71A flew in late 1965 for the first time. No plane to date (except maybe the Aurora) has topped jet engine in top speed. We've taken that know how and for 30 years did other things with it. All was not lost =).

Yes and no...

[putaro]

I live in Japan and I really like the bullet train. Going from Tokyo to Kyoto is great. It is faster than the plane but it is NOT cheaper. We live in Tokyo and when we go down to visit my wife's family in Shizuoka (about half-way to Kyoto) it is both faster AND cheaper to drive rather than take the train (that includes the super high highway tolls). Japan Rail is still trying to get out of its state owned, pork barrel mode and pull its act together as a competitive business.

YES!

[putaro]

That's what I hate about airports and airplanes. It's not just the hurry up and wait, it's the stress that the place generates. You're constantly worried about being late or missing something. You have to wait in the lobby so long that you'd like to take a nap, but then the plane will probably board and take off while you're sleeping.

The shinkansen (bullet trains) here in Japan run every 5-15 minutes between Tokyo and Osaka. You can buy a non-reserved seat and get on ANY train. Miss the 9:00 AM train? No problem, get on the 9:10 AM train. No security checks, no lobbys, no boarding passes.

Not a cultural battle so much as structural.

[VT_hawkeye]

American cities are just plain built differently from others around the world. Quite simply, we've got more (desirable) land per capita than anywhere else, and Americans have the freedom (both social and economic) to go whereever we want to get a piece of land and build our own house on it. It's that little thing called "the American dream," y'know? Our cities are more spread out than others, especially when you get out of the Northeast (not coincidentally, the NE Corridor is the only place Amtrak makes money).

The places in America that *do* have working mass transit have high population density -- not as much so as Japan, but nearly on a par with European cities. High population density means there are enough people within walking distance of a train station to support it. That means the train company doesn't have to build and staff a parking lot, and the potential passengers won't have to decide whether to turn into the train station parking lot or just continue to their destinations in their car. More people using the train ==> more service, at more convenient times.

It's a vicious cycle. I like trains, but if it takes me 3 hours to go from Richmond suburb to Washington suburb by train (presuming I make the commuter train transfer just right in DC) vs. 1h45 to go door-to-door by car, hell, I'd drive even if the gas cost me $40 each way (like taking the train would) instead of the $8 it currently does.

Some real information

[telemonster]

I'm surprised none of the ODU students have posted about this article. I am local to the maglev train (in Virginia Beach) but DO NOT attend ODU nor have any ties to the project.

The transrapid system in Germany allows public passengers and does 250mph with no issues. Maglev isn't new hat. The system at ODU is different in design, with the guideway aimed at being much lower in cost than the design offered by Transrapid and the like. Basically the guideway is dumb and the train itself contains the logic for stepping the magnets and such. The guideway isn't very large, if you saw it in real life it makes you wonder how wide the actual train is (I haven't seen the train, just the guideway).

The rumors I've heard, but the president of American Maglev wouldn't comment when I emailed them was this: the train worked fine on the test track in Flordia when it was on the ground (it has been demonstrated to move!) but once it was up on the guideway problems hit. Someone told me that what is happening is the rail flexes from the weight of the cars, then the system adjusts for the change in gap between guideway and car, then the change causes the rail to bounce and it enters an oscillation loop..... I know someone that saw it move in Flordia, so it really happened. They just didn't plan on rail flex issues.

The fix is supposidly known, but congress hasn't released the 2 million to them to fix the thing yet. Meanwhile some local companies want payment for services rendered in construction of the stations. Supposidly money is set aside to pay for the entire removal of the project. American Maglev supposidly defaulted on payment in Flordia on their facilities there as well (there are articles on the intarweb from the paper down there casting a negative light on the issue).

American Maglev was trying to sell the Virginia Beach oceanfront resort on the system, but they didn't buy it. It wasn't a hotel or a convention center. Finally years later ODU got involved. While the whole thing smells of Marge versus the Monorail from the Simpsons, really assuming they spent the money properly I would have no gripes against American Maglev.

I personally hope to see it run, but things aren't looking good for American Maglev. If they get this thing moving (which they supposidly have a solution to fix it) then there is the remote hope that our region will become the center of development for the maglev monorail industry.

Also -- if you are in the Hampton Roads area and are a geek, consider joining the HRConnect HR-Geeks mailing list at www.hrconnect.com (under mailing lists).

New Record Holder

[ChrisTower]

Japanese train sets world record at 581 kph

That was set on December 2nd with passangers on board.

Good point

[raga]

What was the number one cause of unatural death?

Over 42k traffic fatalities in 2002.
Compare with 3k fatalities in the WTC attack.

cheers- raga

Re:I know what they can build...

[jasoncart]

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!

I have walked under this MagLev Project

[lordmage]

as an Alumnus of ODU (Computer Science) I have been interested in this project. It has really no practical reasons.. and it more of a research project. The track covers half the campus and was supposed to start years ago now.

Reasons I have heard for its demise is that Technical issues have cropped up. One of them is that the track itself is not "level" enough. The others are more in the range of mismanagement.

Frankly it looks like a nice series of archways throughout the campus, and yet.. I can see no reason to build a small one.

The articles in the Virginian Pilot on this(www.pilotonline.com) failure all seem to state that there will be no money until the Company really assures that they can pay it back. Something on the order of 7 million is already being considered lost or unrecoverable.

Me.. A simple bus would be easier to cost, and maintain and probably faster.