MandrakeSoft Improves Financial Health

joestar writes "MandrakeSoft's latest financial results have been posted to their website. Despite a slight decrease in revenues - mostly due to the dollar/euro rate and negative effects of the Chapter 11-like protection - first results seem impressive: "the company reduced operational expenses by a factor of 5, increased gross margins by a factor of 5 and reduced its losses by a factor of 7". As a result, MandrakeSoft has been cash-flow positive since January 2003, and expects its first positive result for the current quarter! Along with latest Mandrake Linux cool products, these are excellent news in my opinion because it shows that an appropriate business model can help Linux companies greatly."

Comments

not fp

[Anonymous Coward]

but you love me anyway, right?

cause i sure love you

with all my heart

and my wang, too

Re:not fp

[Anonymous Coward]

You FAIL not getting FIRST POST!

everybody loves

[Anonymous Coward]

Adolf Hitroll !!!

Way to go!!

[An0maly]

It's good to see a company that makes a fine product doing well. See, Darl? Money CAN be made from selling software.

Re:Way to go!!

[GoofyBoy]

As others have pointed out, the haven't been sucessful just by making a fine product, as in here

Re:Way to go!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake struggled a bit until they found the right approach. I'm glad they are doing well now. Can't wait for "Mandrake on CD" that they recently announced.

Re:Way to go!!

[dnoyeb]

Well Darl did the same thing. He sold off his UK operations as a way to boost the bottom line. Reducing expenses so drastically usually is an indication that they cut employment or sold buildings and closed down shops. It removes expenses immediately, but it also removes future revenue and especially growth.

Nevertheless, shareholders are often short sighted and think this is so good that the CEO gets a hefty bonus...just before he bolts for a new company.

Re:Way to go!!

[apoupc]

I ordered Mandrake 9.2 from them and after a few weeks of them not shipping the product, I cancelled my order. It's been over a month of trying to get my money back and now they are not even replying to my emails. Unfortunately, I will have to treat this as fraud to my bank in a few days if my money is not refunded. Way to go Mandrake...

Re:Way to go!!

[stefanmi]

True, I ordered the 9.2 guidebook from them back at the end of October and I just got it a couple days ago. They have poor customer service for their online store.

Mandrake Move

[rf0]

Now mandrake move looks a cool idea in storing all the files on the move however what would be even better is a system which boots from a USB device. Now that would be cool

Rus

Re:Mandrake Move

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that he's speaking, but I just don't understand!

Re:Mandrake Move

[Anonymous Coward]

Knoppix ...
http://rz-obrian.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/knoppix- usb/

Re:Mandrake Move

[Black Perl]

Now mandrake move looks a cool idea in storing all the files on the move however what would be even better is a system which boots from a USB device. Now that would be cool

Can't we do that already? I believe most recent motherboards have a BIOS that allows booting from USB. Mine does. Haven't tried it though.

Re:Mandrake Move

[smittyoneeach]

RUNT will get you to a command prompt off of your USB keyfob, assuming USB drive with boot-from-floppy allowed.
You'd probably want to get your Beyond Linux From Scratch on to give you something beyond that, e.g., a desktop.
Linux, like all good IT projects, is blessed/cursed with flexibility...
And flexibility, like any good PHB can tell you, is the key to indecision.

suck a cock

[Anonymous Coward]

nigger fags

GNAA HI NRD

[Anonymous Coward]

THE GNAA SAYS HI

good for them

[andih8u]

I'm glad that mandrake is able to make a bit of a profit while still providing a free download edition; without going the redhat way of dropping the home user line entirely. Hopefully other linux companies will see that the Redhat way is not the only way to profitability.

Re:good for them

[MoonFog]

I totally agree, and Mandrake is a great distro. I don't like SuSE's way of releasing their distro (ftp anyone?), and Redhat dropped the free version entirely, so for the desktop I usually recommend Mandrake for people just wanting to try Linux. I have great respect for their installer, which I find to be excellent!
IMHO this is great news, and as you say hopefully others will follow this model.

The latest version can be bought of Mandrake or downloaded from Linuxiso.org.
Feel like supporting ?

Re:good for them

[Lumpy]

It may be because MandrakeSoft knows something that RedHAT should.

Microsoft got where they did by getting in everyone's home and office. For the first 6 years Microsoft almost encouraged piracy of their operating system from the DOS 4.X to the windows 3.11 Era..

This one act, set micrsoft up to gain complete dominance on the desktop... Businesses used Microsoft because that is what people had at home. OS/2 was not really viable as there were very few people that had it at home or in use... it was a rarity.

so do you set up your business IT infrastructure on something that is superior but nobody knows or do you select what everyone is using at home?

Bingo...

MandrakeSoft hopefully realizes that the larger number of small/home users out there the greater the chance of business adoption.

When the CEO starts talking about this Mandrake thing, the CFO hear's that it has a much lower TCO than microsoft (and it really does... the cost of licensing Microsoft products alone makes this case) then things will happen.

Redhat as far as I'm concerned slit their own throat. us end users at home and in garages are who made redhat what is is today because we could reccomend it at work for no cost/risk with the first taste and segway into a full blown server/enterprise + support setup.

Mandrake.... Hope you guys have a better grasp on reality than the rest of the IT industry.

Re:good for them

[bogado]

I agree compleatly, I don't even think that the Fedora project, and opening the distribution is a bad idea. But it was certainly done compleatly wrong. It only scared the custumers away. It made every one distrust redhat.

Re:good for them

[deque_alpha]

You make decent argument, but in my experience, it is usually the other way 'round, people use Windows at home because it's what they use at work. Never have I seen any business or organizational choices made based around what people use at home. I've seen them based on what other businesses and orgs use, but never based on what employess choose.

Where I work, people are always asking me for computer advice (I'm "the IT guy") and in many cases a Mac or a PC running Linux would be what I recommend for their needs, and their first response is always "But I use Windows at work...". I even hear this from people who admittedly prefer Macs, but are so convinced that they don't work with files from Windows machines, they don't consider them a real option.

I don't think redhat cut their throat, in fact they made what is in my opinion a very sound decision. They are focusing on Biz / Org sales instead. It's not a worse choice, just a different one.

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

Soon it won't matter what everyone is using, because that thing will be intollerable! Yes, i'm talking about DRM. I can't wait till Microsoft impliments it, and everyone either stays with old windows versions, upgrades to Linux, or buys a Mac.(which will be pretty mature by then).

Seriously, no one in their right mind would put up with not having total control over their own computer. It's just common sense.

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering most users call their computers the 'puter and use it exclusively to surf porn, download music and movies and email their friends I don't think they'll care.

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you have some colorful friends.

Re:good for them

[dasmegabyte]

has a much lower TCO than microsoft (and it really does... the cost of licensing Microsoft products alone makes this case).

Whoa. Hold on here. TCO means Total Cost of Ownership. The cost of licensing MS software may be high, but the whole idea of TCO is that this is only part of the picture. Whether it's the lion's share or not depends on the size of the transition, the organization involved, and whose numbers you trust.

Yes, you're right, if you're an enterprise with no ties to current software, a good IT budget and the budget to retrain your people, Linux is probably the way to go.

For us and our customers, the TCO issue is a big deal breaker. Because while we can offer then a Linux based solution for about $2300 less per installed machine, the TCO of maintaining that install is insurmountably massive due to a number of customer specific daily use Windows-only closed source applications, no IT budget to speak of, and a total resistance to any sort of change. It has taken us years to move our clients away from DOS, and we still take a majority of phone calls on how to do things like install a printer under Windows.

In our company, I very much wanted to use a Linux install on an old box for our firewall, so we could use the box running our Novell firewall for another use and saving us the cost of a new server. We don't have an IT staff...kind of a waste of cash for a business of 20 some odd folks. So all of our IT is either handled by multitaskers on our staff, or a trusted consultant. None of our trusted consultants know how to administer Linux, and are very resistant to doing so (I had one of them tell me "why eat hamburger when you could have steak." yeah, real enlightened). So, when I presented the idea, it was quickly struck down. See, a new server costs about $2000. If the "free" linux firewall ever broke, and I wasn't around to fix it, we'd have to hire an outside consultant. Rates would probably be over $100, so he'd have to be able to diagnose the problem in less than 20 hours. This is in addition to the loss of our internet connection, the loss of time looking for consultants, etc, not to mention the 8+ hours it took me to build the box. Alternatively, for me to train another guy here to be able to fix any of the things that MIGHT go wrong with Linux or IPChains (from a hard drive that needs fscking to diagnosing a bum ethernet card) would take at least a month -- and that's assuming I could find somebody willing to learn and with the time to play around on their own.

So even for such a simple, novel use of Linux, hidden costs easily beat out the feasibility. If I had a network of smart Linux guys, it would be different...but we can't even get 3 guys for a Slashdot Meetup in this area.

PS: A "segue" is a transition. A "segway" is a scooter.

Re:good for them

[Lumpy]

the thing is that what is happening now is based on the past. Businesses had minicomputers + text terminals... Unless you were an Uber geek you couldn't get that at home... and many companies were running unix and even SCO Xenix in the 80's yet nobody bought that for home use....

DOS was cheap and came with every IBM PC. Windows 3.11 was for the most part free as it took one person to get a new pc with it and then copy the 10 floppies for friends. (I know of at least 50 Windows 3.11 installs in 1993 that were that way. and most businesses were that way.)

Now microsoft makes it impossible for that to happen, Steve the IT guy that the rest of the IT people hate gives dan a copy of mandrake and says," this is free, you can give copies to everyone you know, and it has an Office suite built in that is also free." people will pay attention, espically after trying to upgrade their W98 box with XP only to have it complain about not looking legit and asking for them to call Microsoft.

Granted, Linux even Mandrake Linux is not ready for the regular PC user. But, it will be.. and Microsoft is making it easier and easier for the regular user to accept the "difficulties" of Linux+Mandrake..

Remember only about 6 years ago people were using DOS, having to fight with config.sys and autoexec.bat files to get a game to run. asking them to deal with some minor difficulties in Mandrake is really simple if their only other choice is to spend $199.00 to upgrade their OS.

Re:good for them

[dickiedoodles]

Microsoft got where they did by getting in everyone's home and office. For the first 6 years Microsoft almost encouraged piracy of their operating system from the DOS 4.X to the windows 3.11 Era.

True, I reckon that the biggest breakthrough for free software will be when Microsoft makes a decent anti-piracy system, I first considered Linux when I got sick of ME but saw the major hassle of XP product activation and didn't much fancy paying daft amounts of money for every computer I own every 2-3 years. I got myself a corporate version of XP in the end but I installed mandrake on my second (slightly decrepit) hard disk and while I don't think its going to be my main operating system for a while ("In order to install this device you need to download a file from http://..." would have been ok if said device wasn't my modem) it's defiantly got me interested.

Re:good for them

[deque_alpha]

I really hope you're right AC, but I really doubt that you are...

Re:good for them

[dasmegabyte]

Dude. Most people DON'T have control over their computer. Most people know a handful of functions in a handful of programs. Have you noticed the pleasant messages you get in XP when browsing the hard drive? Shit, I know a PROGRAMMER who can't live without his My Documents folders or the ability to save to a desktop.

To a userbase that doesn't know draconian DRM from fast alt-tab switching, what use is there in some alien system that provides them with security they don't care about in exchange for forcing them to relearn all of the crazy gibberish that they've come to accept in Windows? None. It's no use. DRM is as much a problem for these people as a fragmented hard drive...and Linux is as much a solution as waving a magnet in front of it.

Re:good for them

[Lumpy]

If your customers are the "self-serve" type like you say, then yes.. It's going to be like switching from DOS to Windows... major changes and hurdles to the non IT person. And the costs are still really there... what you pay for Windows Support is what you will pay for Linux Support... A Linux Specalist doesn't cost more than a Windows Specalist.. but they are harder to find... one valid point you bring up is the vertical apps that cant be replaced with Linux versions...

Office? it certianly can be replaced with Open office or Star Office.. there is nothing in MS office that is 100% required but not available in Star Office.

Accounting software? Ok, this can get sticky... linux native Accounting apps are expensive because they are real apps not like the toys that are availabe for Windows (Yes QuickBooks and Peachtree are toys) and designed for multi-user from the ground up unlike the foxpro based junk out there for Windows/Dos... This is a big expense, but it's only a Transitional Expense... that will be the same as that upgrade to the next version of what they are using now.

Replacing specalized apps are the hard part and should be the focus of your research into migration to linux... Remember there are no hidden costs with linux as everything is available to you.

An accounting firm might not be able to based on the fact that they deal with tiny and large companies and have to deal with 100 different setups so they need to have a commonality which right now is windows.

A Machine shop can't migrate because there is no real CAD software available for linux.. (DAMMIT!)

TCO is Total cost.. Yes, but be sure you are calculating things fair. most of the time a cost you bring up for linux really exists on both sides of the fence, you cant call it an added cost if you are already paying it on your Windows platform.

Re:good for them

[ahillen]

I don't like SuSE's way of releasing their distro (ftp anyone?)

What do you mean, are you looking for this?

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

He's saying he does not like the ftp install option. He probably prefers, as I do, an iso for download.

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, an AC can dream can't he?

Seriously, unless there is hardware support, I believe this will happen. Enough people have tech friends that will just laugh at them when they complain that windows won't let them play their downloaded music.

This is all assuming that the DRM isn't cracked of course, and that any media and not just DRM'd media will be restricted... and that Microsoft becomes a bunch of morons and does this...

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

People don't know or care what DRM is, you're right. The WILL care when they can't play their downloaded music though. Believe me.

But my assumption only holds if the DRM isn't cracked, which i'm sure there will be workarounds for it... sigh...

Re:good for them

[ahillen]

Ah, ok. ;)

Re:good for them

[Jungle guy]

I think Red Hat has a great bang for the buck with their academic edition. For US$ 25 you can get a good Linux-based operating system, without any rough edges but that still gives you acess to the source. You qualify if you are a a full time or part time student on a higher education institution, or if you are a teacher. I think an MBA will also get you qualified.

Mandrake is a fine distro, but every time I tried I found some little problems, submited a bug report and hopped on the next version these problems would be solved. They were, but new problems appeared. But, if you don't want to pay US$ 25 for a single system and want a vibrant community that will help you, Mandrake is the way to go. Red Hat is loosing momentum on the free software community, and Mandrake is atracting a lot of refugees.

Re:good for them

[kbrannen]

has a much lower TCO than microsoft (and it really does... the cost of licensing Microsoft products alone makes this case).

Whoa. Hold on here. TCO means Total Cost of Ownership. The cost of licensing MS software may be high, but the whole idea of TCO is that this is only part of the picture. Whether it's the lion's share or not depends on the size of the transition, the organization involved, and whose numbers you trust.

For those who say MS has a lower TCO (not the author I'm quoting), don't forget that total also include handling viruses, upgrading even if you don't want to, and retraining (or less productivity) when new versions of ms-windows come out.

The the real point I want to make is that focusing on TCO is not the correct answer. You need to focus on ROI.

Why? What happens when product M has a TCO of 1000 (pick your units), and product L has a TCO of 1500? Product M looks pretty good.

Also consider that product L make the users 300% more productive. Which is the better product now? So don't stop halfway at TCO, complete the analysis with ROI.

Re:good for them

[adamfranco]

I'm not talking about a subscription. I want to update when I want to update, and I want to pay $30 for an entire automatic system upgrade.

Several of the previous posts have mentioned a shortage of local Linux suport. This could be a great opportunity for any un/under-employed slashdotters. Put up flyers and such advertizing your services doing Linux installs and maintenence. Not a terrible line of work, and there seems to be a demand.

This nice article on doing freelance technical support has lots of reccomendations and info on how to go through with starting something like this.

Re:good for them

[corporate_tool]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with making profit if they deliver a good product. Unfortunately since I lost my web development job I have been unable to contribute to mandrake club this year. The latest version 9.2 of Mandrake is excellent. It was very easy to upgrade and the UI enhancements are nice and clean. If you are using Redhat at home I would seriously consider moving to Mandrake.

Re:good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

remember too that if you have been running MSDOS/Windows from the 3.1 days you are likely to have a huge investment in legacy apps, files and hardware.

good business model until...

[TWX]

...Slashdot found out and saturated their web site with so many hits that they'll spend the next three years paying for the bandwidth...

Nice...

[clifgriffin]

But it still sucks. Slackware is da boom! Slackware for people! Slackware are people too!

This just in....

[Anonymous Coward]

...it turns out that it was Richard Stallman, not Saddam Hussein, who was arrested in Iraq.

Re:This just in....

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, there was some confusion, but, it turns out it WAS Saddam. How did they know? Because he was willing to take a hot, soapy shower to clean up after his months on the lam.

Way to go Mandrake

[pants1973]

I for one am a big fan of mandrake and I'll probably subscribe to the MandrakeClub support once my 9.2 discs arrive. I can't wait!

Re:Way to go Mandrake

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, this is just a little too obviously whoring for karma. Add some actual info you can provide as a Mandrake user that might be of interest to the rest of the world, and earn an upmod.

Re:Way to go Mandrake

[Anonymous Coward]

No shit, where does he think he is, the Apple section?

Business model?

[cperciva]

it shows that an appropriate business model can help Linux companies greatly

I don't think that MandrakeSoft's business model really scales very well.
1. Tell everyone that you're about to go out of business.
2. Ask for donations.
3. PROFIT!
may have worked so far, but it's self-limiting -- as soon as you start to PROFIT!, it becomes hard to claim that you're about to go out of business.

Re:Business model?

[MoonFog]

Have a look at this page;

In November 2001, MandrakeSoft introduced MandrakeClub -- a new concept of offering special services and benefits to Club members which also helps the distribution stay true to the Open Source spirit.
They filed for chapter 11 this year. That means they have been asking for donations through the club for two years before they started having real financial troubles.

Re:Business model?

[cperciva]

They filed for chapter 11 this year. That means they have been asking for donations through the club for two years before they started having real financial troubles.

That's my point. Simply asking for donations wasn't enough to keep them out of bankruptcy. MandrakeSoft only turned around after telling everyone that they were about to go out of business.

Re:Business model?

[dougmc]

MandrakeSoft only turned around after telling everyone that they were about to go out of business.

Seems to work for the local furniture store. GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE! EVERYTHING MUST GO!. It's worked so well, they've been `going out of business' for several years now :)

In fact, I think they've even opened a new location up north, and after a month or so it started GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! too!

Re:Business model?

[joestar]

> They filed for chapter 11 this year. That means
> they have been asking for donations through the
> club for two years before they started having real > financial troubles.

But the Mandrake Club is not a donation service... It's a full-featured service...

Re:Business model?

[hysma]

MandrakeSoft only turned around after telling everyone that they were about to go out of business.

Seems to work for the local furniture store. GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE! EVERYTHING MUST GO!. It's worked so well, they've been `going out of business' for several years now :)

It must be the latest trend.. in the last 5 years there has been one jewler and one furnature store in this area who have continued GOING OUT OF BUSINESS and then just coming back with a new name, repeating the same thing.

Seems to be doing them a lot better than ??AA|SCO's backwards PUTTING YOU OUT OF BUSINESS marketing plan.

Re:Business model?

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

lol... that's so true.. when are humans going to start resisting that? :)

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Why does everyone care so much?

[seems so green]

I figure this will get moderated down, but honestly, why does everyone care so much about how Mandrake is doing? I've always seen them as a horrible red hat and I don't know a single person who couldn't care less about this company, yet they're all over the place with "support mandrake! they're dying!" type of propagandha... Let Mandrake fail... If you can't take the heat, don't put out a lousy distro...

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[ViolentGreen]

Mandrake is a good distro for new users. It is cake to partition, install and use. You don't have to know any command line applications to configure your system. While this may be true for other distros as well, Mandrake does this very well.

Alot of people, including myself, think that mandrake is the closest thing to a desktop linux for the masses currently available.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[IANAAC]

True, Mandrake is easy to install. But I think in the last year/year and a half, the desktop playing field is more level than it's ever been. Take a look at Mandrake, RedHat/Fedora and SuSE - they ALL have easy and attractive install/configure programs now.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[Sp4c3 C4d3t]

Does it really matter so much if it's easy to install? I have my computer illiterate family running Slackware full-time, and they're not having any problems... because I set it up. Most of the time, people get geeks to install Windows for them as well. I think the install matters less and less, and ease of use once it's actually installed is what matters... and in that department, pretty much every distro is the same, as long as they don't bloat it up with 50 icons on the desktop ala Mandrake.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is MUCH easier than that. _Every_ Mandrake program has an autoupdate, through mandrakeupdate.
If you use 3rd party programs, well - it is your problem.
A distribution should take care of _every_ program installed, any other way and it will be hard to maintain consistency.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[Anonymous Coward]

No everyone can update through MandrakeUpdate.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, Mandrake is a poor distro for new users. Its lack of QA, huge number of bugs (see the errata and updates list) and general disinterest in stability has put many newcomers off. They install Mandrake, come across loads of glitches and bugs, and go back to Windows. Believe me, I've seen it happen. A lot.

SUSE, and to a lesser extent Fedora, are much better choices for first-timers as it gives them a good first impression of Linux. Much as I respect MandrakeSoft for their goals and various innovative ideas, they're also making Linux look shoddy and half-assed a lot of the time.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[archos]

Mandrake isn't just a great desktop distro, it's a great Server distro as well. For rpm based distros I haven't found anything that works as good.

Each server I create starts off with a minimal Mandrake installation, takes no time at all. Then I add sources for urpmi (rpm wrapper like apt-get, checks dependancies etc). Then I start building the server with just what I need to put on it. Nice clean servers. Easy to manage. Just need to add an update source, and urpmi --auto-select updates all packages.

Re:Why does everyone care so much?

[IANAAC]

Installing new software, and upgrading current software is the one place linux needs help.

The only reason this is currently difficult is because of the difference in libraries depending on the distro used (I'm talking about RPMs here). RedHat places their libraries in one place and calls them one thing, Mandrake does something different and SuSE yet something else. In a perfect world, you could go to someplace like rpmfind.net and find an RPM for each distro and each version of each distro. That's a monumental task, to say the least. Add to that the fact that if you choose to go get software from sourceforge.net, you get sloppy documentation with the programs - they'll forget to tell you you need a (often very unrelated) package to complete the install.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

What?

Re:What?

[BigGerman]

Because they just follow the standard path of any software/web business:
B2C -> B2B -> B2Chapter11

Re:What?

[jmb-d]

Since when is "Chapter 11-like protection" a good business model??

Since staying in business is better than going out of business, quite a while.

In the early 90s, I worked for a company that filed for Chapter 11 protection while I was on vacation.

"D'ah!" thought I.

Not a terrible thing, really. Debt got restructured (read: our creditors took it in the a**), we got rid of a whole lot of things we didn't really need (read: way too much floorspace (including a no-longer-used manufacturing area)), and got out of a lease on said space, moving to a more appropriate-sized office at a much lower per-foot cost. Then came a couple of years of consecutive positive cash-flow, and *poof* we were out of Chapter 11. Never missed a paycheck, got raises during that time, etc.

No big deal from where I stand.

Would it have been better to have had a better handle on what was going on before it got to the point where Chapter 11 protection was necessary?

You bet.

Was it a handy way of saving the company?

Damn skippy.

Re:What?

[EmagGeek]

Just a small correction. Your creditors did not take it in the A**. Your creditors' other customers, who pay their bills on time, took it in the A** for you, because that's how your creditors made up for the loss.

Damn skippy, eh?

What?

[1000101]

Since when is "Chapter 11-like protection" a good business model??

STICK TO TEH GHAMES SECTION SIMON

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake is awesome

[iamdrscience]

I pretty much only use Debian for linux, but Mandrake is pretty cool. Mainly for how simple it is. It's a distro that I know I could give to most people (largely computer inexperienced) I know if they wanted to play with Linux. The simple installer is as easy as installing a *nix distro gets. Period. It is, in fact, easier than the Windows installer is.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[seems so green]

So is Red Hat, Suse, and the others. Mandrake isn't special.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[TheWanderingHermit]

It's really nice to hear a Debian devotee praising Mandrake. I've been using Mandrake since I started seriously using Linux (my first exposure was Suse 6.4). I've tried Debian and, while I like apt, I found that I didn't have time to do all the setup things I needed to -- like setting up the mount points when I wanted to play DVDs (which isn't just for entertainment if you're doing video production). I respect Debian and the power it provides, but I prefer Mandrake, since I can get a production box up and running extremely quickly.

I've found it frustrating because many times I've heard people deride Mandrake because it is so easy to use, and I've especially heard a lot of Debian users deride it (then again, I've heard many Debian users deride anything BUT Debian). I've always thought there was a place for most of the distros out there, and Mandrake is great for beginners, or experienced users who need easy and quick installation.

I'm glad to hear from another distro user (especially an advanced one like Debian) recognizing the value of Mandrake.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Try installing and playing with all three. They all try to aim for the same goal, but Mandrake pulls it off the best (not that there's anything wrong with Red Hat or Suse, they both have their merits as well)

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[Lane.exe]

Mandrake is good period. It's Linux. It's not like there's something other Linux distros do that Mandrake can't. Package management? urpmi. What advantage does apt have over urpmi? I can't think of one. Ease of install? Hands down to Mandrake. Ease of configuration? Drakconf, userdrak, diskdrak, wow... all easy to use and they do the same thing as any comparable configuration method.

Don't knock Mandrake simply because it can be easy to use. It's also just as powerful as anything else, provided you have the experience to use the power-user features. There's nothing that says "just because this system is more obtuse and harder to use must mean it's more powerful!" That's a misconception that a lot of people need to get out of their heads.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[bcrowell]

I've tried Debian and, while I like apt,
Can anyone relate their exepriences with installing software on Mandrake these days? Do they offer anything better than the standard RPM hell? Didn't they start offering some kind of subscription service or something?

I switched from Mandrake to FreeBSD a while back, and I really like FreeBSD's ports system.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[dmaxwell]

I used to be a Mandrake user in the 7 and 8 release period. My experience with it was not good. Supermount and flaky end user tools made me feel like I was running Windows 98 again. Perhaps they have improved things since then but going to Debian was like a breath of fresh air.

Yes, I had to learn more to make things work. Thing is, once I had them working they stayed working. My other complaint was that the Mandrake system of mirrors wasn't terribly reliable. I had no idea where next week's updates were coming from. The early urmpi was no treat either.

One of these days, I may try it again on a spare box. The improvement I want to see is that when I admin it, the tools work correctly and the configuration proves reliable. Upgrading and updating should be nearly flawless. If oopsies do happen, it shouldn't require hair pulling to fix them. I got into Linux for reliablity first and ease of use second (still important but not paramount). If I had wanted the opposite, I wouldn't have bothered.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[ValentineMSmith]

Disclaimer: I haven't used Mandrake seriously since Mandrake 8.0 (and my memory is a little fuzzy about the versions and dates), so the following complaints may no longer be applicable.

I'd tried to use Mandrake seriously a while back, and found it virtually unusable for many of the same reasons I find Windows unusable. I grew up in (semi-) elder days, and learned to configure my Linux system the old fashioned way: I'd go to my /etc directory, find the config file, and edit it.

Why did I have to hand-edit? Because the network settings editor would not allow me to enter and tweak the settings as I required for my home network.

The last time I tried doing so with an out-of-the-box Mandrake system, I could make the change in the /etc/ directory (assuming I could find the file: they did some screwy things to some of the locations and names of some of the config files, IIRC), but even the files that I could find and change were overwritten by their configuration program. It seems that they were kind enough to store a second copy of the values and would do a blanket update when you started any of their config apps.

That would have been bad enough, but the thing that finally turned me off was being unable to download a patch for a stock kernel and being unable to apply it (it was just after the Zaurus SL-5000D came out, and you needed a patch to get the communications layer working between the OS and the PDA working correctly). If I have to hand hack the patch into place, I don't want to use the distro.

Thank God for Slackware.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[abhikhurana]

Hmm, I agree that it is a bit hard to edit the files by hand, but Mandrake comes with extensive online documentation and if you had looked, you would have found how to change the settings manually.

As far as applying the patch to the kernel, well mandrake adds some features like supermount to the kernel they ship which sometimes means that you can't apply the patches but, one mandrake does give you linus kernel in their urpmi repository and secondly, it is equally easy to download a stock kernel and then apply the patch. So I don't think that is a good criteria to judge a kernel. The fact of the matter is, Mandrake philosophy has always been to make it easy to use and so they add features like supermount. But that doesn't take away the power from you to replace the kernel alltogether. For example, I personally run 2.6 test 11, but then I don't use supermount. How does that make a distro bad is beyond me.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[Fizzl]

Interestingly, Debian seems to be the first distro I haven't managed to break yet.

I'm not a Linux specialist, but I use it for my server (mail, http/https, ftp) and NAT needs.
I have tried using Linux on my desktop many times, but there's always some game, utility or application I miss from any distro. Be it filesharing, MMORPG or (relatively) easy to use 3D modelling program. I don't want to boot all the time from OS to another to get what I need, so I just have one box for "my work" (Win2k) and another for "computers work" (Debian).

Oh yeah, back to the header topic. I also miraculously manage to f*ck up my systems by installing some weird package, wrong kernel or link a wrong lib. Always ending up reinstalling whole system rather than figuring out what I did wrong that time.
Debian, hoever, has so nice packaging system (apt) and instructive comments in configuration files ("Don't go fucking with this or your gonna be reinstalling me") that I have now ran that box for over a year, only booting it 4 times. Always to install/remove hardware or to move the thing around.

Wait.. I actually already lost whatever point I might have had. Anyway. Cheers for Debian, Cheers for Win2K, cheers for Mandrake.

(Sorry, I'm just a tiny weeny bit drunk)

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[Skater]

That about sums my experience, too. I'm used to compiling my own kernels, but when I wanted to upgrade a kernel on Mandrake, I found that they usually had included extra patches, like automounters that removed the need for mount/umount on CD drives. So, I wasn't able to get the kernel working exactly the way it was supposed to and the system never "felt right" afterwards.

Don't get me wrong--Mandrake is a beautiful distribution, very easy to configure and use, and I'd recommend it for anyone who wants an easy-to-install desktop.

But Slack is still my favorite.

--RJ

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[ValentineMSmith]

..and secondly, it is equally easy to download a stock kernel and then apply the patch.

This is true. And, as RJ said in a reply, my Mandrake system was never quite "right" again.

How does that make a distro bad is beyond me.

I'm not saying that Mandrake is a bad distro. I'm saying that it's a distro for those who don't need to do anything with their system that the Mandrake developers haven't forseen. I expect that most end users will be able to configure their machines effectively using a modern Mandrake.

I just found it inflexible to the point of uselessness if you want to configure it in a way for which the developers had not planned.

And as I said earlier, the more modern Mandrake versions may have corrected these problems. I just don't feel like spending a weekend wiping a partition and installing Mandrake to find out whether or not these problems have been corrected.

If you love it, more power to you.

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[Malor]

I use Mandrake on my desktops and Debian on my servers. I run quite a number of servers, so I speak with some experience here.

Debian excels at remote management. Everything is tuned that way. Everything (EVERYTHING) is administered from the command prompt. (There may be graphical tools as well, but I never install those...I just configure in text.) Want to upgrade packages on a server 5000 miles away? Debian makes that trivial. And you never have to reinstall the OS (barring major catastrophe), so you can maintain remote servers over a long period (years) comfortably, without ever needing to touch them. RPM-based distros simply don't work like that... you can do maintenance updates remotely (except possibly SSH), but to upgrade to a newer release you have to do it from the console.

Where Mandrake is really good is in desktop presentation. They have a lot of very nice tools to administer things with. I'm running on a freshly-installed 9.2, and it's very, very nice. It is a completely functional desktop that's comfortable and easy to use. I run Mandrake 100% of the time as my desktop here at work, and fire up VMWare to support the Windows questions. It's gotten good enough that I'm seriously considering switching my main machine at home to Mandrake as well, and just keeping Windows around for gaming. It has come that far. (I particularly like Konqueror, which is an outstanding web browser.)

But both distros have problems. Mandrake's makes it harder to use, IMO, for servers.... it has to be reinstalled with every new release. I realize it has an 'upgrade' option, but this A) requires that you take the server offline for a couple of hours; B) RPM-based distros just don't upgrade well; (Admittedly, I haven't tried this since about RedHat 8.0, so it may have improved ... treat this as an old data point that needs confirmation.) C) You have to be physically at the machine to upgrade it, which makes true remote management very difficult; and a related D) it used to be hard or impossible to upgrade SSH over an SSH connection using RPM. This may be fixed by now.

Mandrake's model is much like Windows... each new iteration is a significant jump forward, and most of the new improvements are not backported to the old versions, unless you use an outside RPM source like the Penguin Liberation Front. This model fits some IT shops very well... it doesn't suit my style as much.

As an aside, be a little careful with the PLF packages. My work system seems to suffer from significant bitrot; each installation has developed problems, after six or nine months, that required a reinstall. Most recently I had a runaway KDE artsd demon that was causing me all kinds of problems, and then suddenly my font antialiasing stopped working. Ended up wiping the system and upgrading to 9.2.... which, btw, is very nice, now that they've got the kinks out.

Anyway, getting back to compare/contrast: Debian's three-tiered system provides finer granularity. They have "stable", which is old but very proven software, "testing", which is where they hammer out the next stable release, and "unstable", which is where all the bleeding-edge stuff goes. The release process is continuous and ongoing, and upgrades generally involve a few minutes of downtime instead of hours; the granularity is much finer. You can choose to upgrade, say, just Apache or just Samba and leave everything else untouched, should you choose. However, this incremental upgrade process does come with a cost... you can find out too late that the most recent package breaks something. They had a nasty bug in LILO awhile back that broke all our SCSI-based Intel SRMK2s... after an apt-get dist-ugprade, the machines were no longer able to reboot. This was Not Good, and required a rush trip to the colo to fix. It's a little more chaotic, a little less controlled.... but of course, if you want pure stability, there's always "stable".

The Debian project itself seems to be suffering from some burnout too..

Re:Mandrake is awesome

[Wycliffe]

It is fairly easy to upgrade a mandrake system without taking it offline. I have a system that went from mandrake 8.2 to mandrake 9.2 without going offline. If you point urpmi to the newest distro and do an urpmi --auto-select, it will upgrade all the packages that have changed since the last disto.

Really?

[The Bungi]

these are excellent news in my opinion because it shows that an appropriate business model can help Linux companies greatly.

What's that? Showing ads during installation or begging for donations because you're going under? Or releasing a product that fries hardware?

Don't know about the submitter, but in the normal world this is not considered a "business model". It's called something else.

Re:Really?

[TheWanderingHermit]

It's part of the business model. It's just one you don't like, and that's no reason to drag it down.

Or would you rather them go out of business and have one of the most user friendly distros gone so we're one step closer to having only uber geeks using Linux? Oh -- and if they go under, we'd lose the brand I see the most of on the shelves at Best Buy and other stores.

Re:Really?

[Firehawke]

Advertising is a legitimate business model-- it's an annoying one, but nobody can question their right to do so if they choose. As for going under, it doesn't look like they are NOW.

The CD-ROMs thing.. well, blame LG for producing a drive that CLEARLY violates the specifications and reuses a nondestructive command for a destructive firmware command.

You can point to the earlier stuff all you like-- perhaps only the ONE is still valid though-- but the CD-ROM thing you can't point to Mandrake on.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think begging for money to avoid going under is not a business model. But that's just me.

Re:Really?

[MoonFog]

Advertising is a legitimate business model-- it's an annoying one, but nobody can question their right to do so if they choose(..)
I certainly don't mind their ads during install. First of all, they let me download the iso for free, second, you can just do something else while the installer runs, it's not like you have to watch.

Re:Really?

[The Bungi]

What? Begging for money to get out of bankruptcy? I seriously doubt that can be called a "business model". Call it anything you want, but don't call it a "business model". The submitter was just playing fanboi and not being very successful at it.

You might as well go back to the tried and true

• Sell free software
• ???
• Profit!!1!

That's about a valid "business model" as any.

I don't want to see them go out of business - that's no skin off my ass, really. But to wax poetic about how "this proves that Linux companies can make money" is stupid. RedHat - now there's a business model.

Re:Really?

[NiceGeek]

The only reason Mandrake was "begging" was due to errors made by the FORMER bosses making massive screwups like trying to push Mandrake into "E-Learning". It has NOTHING to do with a flaw in their business model.

Re:Really?

[Cro Magnon]

At CompUSA, I haven't seen Mandrake since the 8.X days. After they sell their obsolete RH9 boxen, it will be a SuSe shop.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can blame LG.

But also, bear in mind that MandrakeSoft chose to use unproven, untested code in their final kernel, which started the whole thing.

Had MandrakeSoft decided to use known, proven and stable kernel releases, it would not have happened. But they didn't.

The point is: yes, LG were lame. But so were MandrakeSoft for pushing out untested code to the masses. We should be giving them official stable releases if we want to give a good impression of Linux.

wow, linux is powerful!

[Tibor the Hun]

i never knew chmod 755 could do THAT for a company!

Re:wow, linux is powerful!

[nil5]

not funny, idiot

Re:wow, linux is powerful!

[Tibor the Hun]

why thank you, nutbag!

Re:wow, linux is powerful!

[nil5]

you're welcome, dorkus

Re:wow, linux is powerful!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, get a room, you fags.

Re:wow, linux is powerful!

[Tibor the Hun]

good then, schmuck!

woop dee freaking doo

[nil5]

mandrake sucks. real pros use debian. grow up or die off.

"I think I'll go for a walk..."

[Anonymous Coward]

"You're not fooling anybody!"

Okay.

[/dev/trash]

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
But doesn't Knoppix already do this?

Re:Okay.

[joestar]

Well... MandrakeMove's concept is to offer a liveCD with a USB key that automatically stores configuration data and personal data (email...). That's slightly different... Additionally, MandrakeMove is... a Mandrake :-)

Re:Okay.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, I'm unsure, but I think the last time I used Knoppix (3.2?) it was not possible to remove the LiveCD and access another. Mandrake has touted this as a MandrakeMove feature, so it may be somethign new they've developed. I don't know, but it seems a reasonable speculation.

Re:Okay.

[/dev/trash]

Okay so they sell a USB key along with the CD. And that would have to be a pretty big key to store my email.

Mandrake rules

[Sarojin]

I like to install Linux, what can I say? I just can't find ONE distro who satisfies me ...

Hi, my name is Mandrake and I am a Linux addict.

install Linux rodistroce. install Linux foreplay. install Linux sex toys. I like it good and hard while I am held down and told to shut up. I can think of 10 different ways I need to be install Linuxed right now, and if I could settle for crappy sex, I wouldn't be here typing this ;)

I recently went six months without sex to see if I could be "fixed". I have a little problem you see, I'm just never satisfied. I had planned on going without sex even longer than six months but I felt I had tortured myself and assorted household items enough ;) I've never been one to cheat, but I've just had to say TO HELL with dating... hello install Linuxbuddy(ies)!

The first guy I ever "officially" slept with was small. Poor kid almost had an innie! Anyway, he was abused by his aunt as a child and as a result could not ejaculate while having sex. He'd make sure I'd had atleast one "orgasm" then go jerk himself off to climax in the bathroom while I laid in bed wondering why the hell I was with him. We didn't last long...

The second guy I slept with was a steroid user. He was average height, very muscular build but his twig and berries were laughable. Just as looks aren't everything, sex isn't everything right? Sex with him was laying there until he came, then fingering myself after he rolled over and passed out. We didn't last long either...

The third guy I slept with I ended up living with for two years. He install Linuxed me good and hard, just the way I like it. I rode his face everynight and he never asked me to gobble his knob in return. We install Linuxed 3 or 4 times a day the whole time we were together. Why did I ever let this one get away? Who knows, I was young and stupid. Seems like every guy I've slept with since, I end up "pretending" it's him. Shhhh, don't tell.

The fourth guy had his cock pierced. It was pretty install Linuxing sexy the way he grinded his hips like a wodistro and purred in my ear while he install Linuxed me from behind. That piercing of his made me bleed more than once, but what is a little pleasure without a little pain. Too bad he was a crazy army motherinstall Linuxer though. He went overseas and I went a little wild....

The fifth through eleventh guys I install Linuxed were just install Linuxs. I install Linuxed them all a few times then ditched them. I did the distro thing. I rode those losers like there was no tomorrow. I screamed, bit, spanked and screamed some more. I install Linuxed number eight again two weeks ago. I love the way he asks me how bad I want it then tells me to shut the install Linux up. If he wasn't so annoying I'd install Linux him more often.

The twelveth guy I install Linuxed was the devil in disguise... He came to my rescue then took advantage of me. I can't say I didn't like the way he chased me around while stripping naked, or his massive cock. He was a terrible kisser though. He showed me the thrill of riding him while fingering myself. I actually gushed so much once while he was eating me out that he gagged. GO Mandrake!

The thirteenth guy I install Linuxed was a friend. He had just broken up with his girlfriend, who he never saw anyway because he was always at my place. I went to take a shower while he was on the phone with her and five minutes later he was right there in the shower with me. He started fondling my breasts then he kissed me. A few seconds later I had my legs spread and he was pounding it in me like it was the end of the world. I have NEVER seen that much cum before. He'd show up at my door at various ungodly hours of the morning for months to follow, grin on his face. He knew I wanted it, the bastard. I install Linuxed him again last week, no kissing. I wonder if he's home ;)

The fourteenth guy sealed my dating fate. I knew he liked me but after we install Linuxe

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

A list of Mandrake staffers

[Sarojin]

name sex location date found age found species of carers
The Rodriguez twins M Phoenix, AZ, USA 2003 5 confined child
Traian Caldarar M Brasov, Romania 2002 7 dogs
Sudam Pradhana M Bargania, Orissa, India 2001 24
Axel Rivas M Talcahuano, Chile 2001 11 dogs
Edik M Mirny, Ukraine 1999 4 dogs
Ivan Mishukov M Retova, nr Moscow 1998 6 dogs
Bello M Nigeria 1996 2 chimps
Oxana Malaya F Novaya Blagoveschenka, Ukraine 1991 8 dogs
John Ssebunya M Uganda 1991 6 monkeys
Andes boy M the Peruvian Andes 1990 12 goats
Jhansi leopard-girl F Jhansi, India 1986 2 leopards
Baby Hospital F Sierra Leone 1984 7 monkeys
Kunu Masela M Machakos, Kenya 1983 6 dogs
Imiyati F Sumatra, Indonesia 1983 12
Robert M Uganda 1982 6 monkeys
Isabel Quaresma F Tabua, Portugal 1980 9 confined child
Tissa M Tissamaharama, Sri Lanka 1973 11 monkeys
Adam M Colombia 1973 1 confined child
Louise F the UK 1973 3 confined child
Mary F the UK 1973 2 confined child
Ramchandra M Baragdava, Uttar Pradesh 1973 15
The Koluchova twins M Czechoslovakia 1972 12 confined child
Shamdeo M Musafirkhana, Sultanpur 1972 4 wolves
Rocco M the Abruzzi mountains, Italy 1971 5
Genie F California, USA 1970 13 confined child
Marcos Pantoja M Sierra Morena, Spain 1965 19 wolves
Yves Cheneau M Saint-Brevin 1963 7 confined child
Djuma M Turkmenistan 1962 7 wolves
Saharan gazelle-boy M Rio de Oro, Mauritania 1960 10 gazelles
Kevin Halfpenny M County Down, Ireland 1956 7 confined child
Ramu M Balrampur, India 1954 12 wolves
CauCau M Los Riscos, Chile 1947 12
Syrian gazelle-boy M Syria 1946 15 gazelles
Sidi Mohamed M N Africa 1945 15 ostriches
Misha Defonseca F Europe 1945 11 wolves
Isabelle F Ohio, USA 1938 6 confined child
Anna F Pennsylvania, USA 1938 6 confined child
Turkish bear-girl F Adana, Turkey 1937 9 bears
Assicia F Liberia 1930s monkeys
Casamance boy M Casamance, Guinea 1930s 16 monkeys
Istoki M Hungary 1930s
Child of Uzice M Uzice, Serbia 1934 15
Tarzancito M El Salvador 1933 5
Jhansi wolf boy M Jhansi, India 1933 10 wolves
Maiwana wolf boy M Maiwana, India 1927 wolves
Jackal girl F Cooch Bahar, India 1923 jackals
Indian panther-child M India 1920 panthers
Amala F Midnapore, India 1920 2 wolves
Kamala F Midnapore, India 1920 8 wolves
Satna wolf boy M Satna, India 1916 wolves
Leopard boy of Dihungi M Dihungi, India 1915 5 leopards
Goongi F Naini Lal, Uttar Pradesh 1914 14 bears
Lucas M South Africa 1904 baboons
Mauritanian gazelle boy M French Mauritania c1900 gazelles
Charlotte Deconinck F Ghent, Belgium 1897 7 confined child
Batsipur wolf boy M Batsipur, India 1893 14 wolves
Jalpaiguri bear-girl F Jalpaiguri, India 1892 8 bears
Skiron M Trikkala, Greece 1891 sheep
Second Sekandra wolf boy M Sekandra, India 1872 10 wolves
Dina Sanichar M Sekandra, India 1867 6 wolves
Wild boy of Overdyke M Overdijk, Holland ?
Clemens M Overdijk, Holland c1863 pigs
Third Sultanpur wolf boy M Sultanpur, India 1860 4 wolves
Shajehanpur wolf boy M Shahjehanpur, India 1858 wolves
Chupra wolf boy M Chupra, India 1849 9 wolves
Second Sultanpur wolf boy M Sultanpur, India 1848 9 wolves
The Lobo Girl of Devil's River F San Felipe, Texas, USA 1845 10 wolves
First Lucknow wolf boy M Lucknow, India 1844 10 wolves
First Sultanpur wolf boy M Sultanpur, India 1843 wolves
Bankipur wolf boy M Bankipur, India 1843 12 wolves
Hasunpur wolf boy M Hasunpur, India 1841 9 wolves
Sow-girl F Salzburg ? 22 confined child
Kaspar Hauser M Nuremberg 1828 17 confined child
Isabella F Brazil c1817
La Folle des Pyrenees F Vicdessos en Ari

I wonder if the shipped any labor to India

[Billly Gates]

They could save a fortune and can hire 3 programmers for the price of one!

Linux business model

[Animats]

1. Download free software.
2. Burn to CD.
3. Put in printed box.
4. Sell.
5. PROFIT!

MANDRKAE LINUX ON TEH SPOEK

[GhostseTroll]

WHY IS THE ABOVE IDIOCY "INSIGHTFUL"

Your Bowels Cleansed

Let me ask you this...which is worse:

A. The engine on your Lexus freezes up at 160,000 miles instead of 300,000. You take a financial hit and you are forced to buy a Camry this time.

B. You start bleeding during bowel movements. You go to the doctor and get poked, prodded, X-ray'd, biopsied, etc. 3 days later you get a call for a consultation. The doctor informs you that you have advanced colon cancer at 45 years old. You have anywhere from 6 months to 5 years left to live. He tells you it's time to get your house in order because you'll be checking out soon. Chemotherapy starts today.

A friend of mine who was a science and health researcher at the University of Chicago, just died this past year of colon cancer at 42. In the midst of the prime of his life, he said goodbye, and left his wife and child behind, wondering what just hit them.

Why do you brush your teeth? Are your teeth falling out right now? For most of us, we do it so we won't need false teeth and Fixodent down the road...right? We want to be able to eat apples. Hey, I agree with that. Natural teeth are great.

But have you ever seen someone who was forced to endure a colonectomy? Someone who now will be spending the rest of their life carrying a bag around?

Incredibly, this is an area where even the staunchest MD's AGREE with us!! Can you believe it? If they knew you had the greatest colon cleanse in the world, I bet they might even refer people to you. NO, I'm not kidding...

This subject is not even up for debate. It's a proven fact. The problem is, most people are not doing anything about it. Please don't be one of them.

****WARNING***** The next section of this email contains graphic
material which may not be suitable for squeamish individuals.

Let's talk stools.

The stool tells you a lot about your colon health. If it's dark brown in color, and it sinks, and it stinks, that's not good. And don't feel bad, that's the way most people are. What you want to see is light brown color, which means it's full of fresh bile from the liver, very mild odor, and a stool that floats. We're talking low-density here folks. The more compaction you have the darker the color and the faster it sinks. Compaction is not good. Also, moving bowels should be SIMPLE. If the veins are popping out of your neck and you feel like your doing the bench press, you NEED to cleanse your colon.

When you do the cleanse, for the first few days....things are a little weird. But you know you're cleansed when you see the above good stuff happening, and you are eliminating at least 2-3 times per day.

Cleansing your colon is a 30-day process. Its also very economical at under $50. You may be very surprised at some of the benefits you will receive besides just losing 1-5 lbs of cr*p from your body and brightening your future health.

People have reported more energy, less allergies, clearing of acne, cessation of migraines, and many other results, not to mention restored regularity. When your body is void of old, poisonous toxins that are constantly being reabsorbed through the colon walls, it can begin to heal again. And when the colon walls are clean, the good nutrients from your food and supplements can be absorbed again. You will be thrilled with the results.

At this point you are either nauseated thinking about what is inside your own colon, or you're ready to do something about cleaning it out.

Want more info? Click here and I'll send it to you, including instructions on how to take it. It is private, all natural, totally safe, inexpensive, and very effective. And yes, I have taken it myself.

Currently available only in the U.S. and Canada. Seeking Distributors to meet high demand.

More Infor

cmdrtaco@slashdot.org?subject=SendColonCleanseIn fo

cmdrtaco@slashdot.org?subject=PleaseRemove

Please do not 'reply' to this email as we might not see your message. Please use the links above.

GIVE THEM A BREAK, WILL YOU?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a perfectly understandable mistake.

I think they were seperated at birth.

FAIL = YOU

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you fail not FP???

OMFG!!! RAISED BY GOATS!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Andes boy M the Peruvian Andes 1990 12 goats
Aegisthus M Italy 250 goats

I, for one, welcome our homo neogoatsapiens overloards!

Quality impact?

[infolib]

The last Mandrake release had a bunch of bugfix updates right after the ISOs went golden requiring the users to download many megabytes of updates. Could this be a result of firing developers? Has anyone seen the lay-offs impacting quality?

I'm quite curious since I use Mdk myself.

Re:Quality impact?

[joestar]

Actually this is better to fix the bugs and release updated packages instead of ignoring them, which is what happens with many other Linux distributions.

Re:Quality impact?

[TimeZone]

I've been using MDK since 7.2, and it seems the same every release. There's always updates, that's just how it is with open source. Hell, I've always found it a pain that MS doesn't release updates more often. Also, with MDK, it seems every time they make a release, a bunch of whiners complain about a bunch of bugs, but everything seems just fine to me. Then a couple weeks later, the whiners calm down and everybody realizes the release was pretty good. I've always been happy w/ their products. (There are apparently some issues with their service, I guess, but I've never had problems w/ their store or asked for support from them, so I don't have any personal experience.)
TimeZone

Re:Quality impact?

[Anonymous Coward]

I currently run an LFS/BLFS but each time a new MDK is out I can help installing it just to see the latest bugs^M^Mfeatures. 2 years ago, MDK was my preferred distro. But since 9.0 I think quality is gone.

It began with supermount that locks my DVDrom. The only way to get back my DVD is to reboot. Then there was 9.1... With 9.0 all my hardware worked just fine but with 9.1 I get a "lost IRQ" during boot that locks the whole computer. If I do nothing, it magically unlocks after 10/15 min. I trashed their buggy^M^Mimproved kernel and replaced it with a vanilla one: Everything is back to normal.

With 9.2 they push the magic a step further. I get a strange artefact on the upper left corner of the screen. When I pass the pointer on it, gnome dies. The same goes for KDE.

Last but not least, I think their packagers have 2 left hands. When I was using 9.1 (witch comes with python 2.2) I needed python 2.3 (need tarfile module). I thought "no problem, let's see what urpmi can do". This simple upgrade gives me 105 dependencies!!!! Including Xfree-4.3, the new version of KDE,.... over 300MB of packages.

So, back to the good old LFS.
No flashy installer but no funky bugs. ./configure && make && make install rulez.

Re:Quality impact?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is the case for many mainstream distros. Suse had even updates (more than 50Mb) BEFORE it was released.
Moreover, more than half of updates were not bugs, but security updates for securing flaws discovered after the freeze. Thus they just did their job.

Re:Quality impact?

[ninjaz]

My guess is the errata for this release were mostly due to closing off the community a bit. Last time I recall getting a release, MandrakeForum was still open to the public for discussion (now consolidated into members-only MandrakeClub), and had announcements, download links and discussions of bugs in the release candidate ISOs.

Mandrake also seems to have a strong "get it out the door" drive. For what it's worth, I'd rather have it ship with a few bugs (I didn't even notice any of the scary bugs on the original 9.2 CD) as long as they release in a timely fashion, then fix it within 2 weeks (as seems to be standard practice with Mandrake) Perhaps it would be better to have a release strategy to reflect this, though, so as to only release the fixed version for the packaged CD's (like the fixed release to deal with LG drives this time around)

Re:Quality impact?

[catenos]

Last but not least, I think their packagers have 2 left hands. When I was using 9.1 (witch comes with python 2.2) I needed python 2.3 (need tarfile module). I thought "no problem, let's see what urpmi can do". This simple upgrade gives me 105 dependencies!!!!

I am curious what wacky thing you did. I am quite positive that this python 2.3 was not for ML 9.1. They practically never release "new version" updates for a package.

So where was this python 2.3 from? A third party? Then don't complain about Mandrake's packagers. Cooker (pre-9.2) or 9.2? Then you indirectly asked for a dist-upgrade. Be glad it was only 105 packages.

Re:Quality impact?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am curious what wacky thing you did. I am quite positive that this python 2.3 was not for ML 9.1. They practically never release "new version" updates for a package.

It was the 9.2 package downloaded from an MDK mirror. The dependencies require to upgrade practically the whole ditro.

Mandrake is great - and not only for x86

[Pow.R Toc.H]

I think that I moved to Mandrake at release 7.2 - RedHat was starting to look too much proprietary to me, something that recent news have confirmed.

Mandrake does include bleeding edge software, but normally it's mostly optional - you can run a real stable server system if you want to with it. I have used Mandrake as both my standard desktop (both in my computer and my wife's notebook). never got any HW detection problems. Recently I bought an USB Ethernet adapter. Just plugged it into wife's notebook USB port, it started to work. No hassles at all. Period.

Also, Mandrake is my Firewall Solution for years now, as Mandrake was the only distribution that allowed me to use my old Performa 6360 as a firewall.

If this is not important to you, or if you suggest me to use NetBSD for PPC instead, forget it. The 6360 has no video/kdb console accessible and so I had to use the serial console directly - which had instability problems and became completed frozen up from hour to hour.

"But you can connect from the network!"

Nope. The network driver couldn't contact my little ethernet network, and locked up the entire machine. And I don't use RealCrap cards in this server, but an ANA-6922TX card.

So, I,ve tried Mandrake as Yellow Dog didn't install; LinuxPPC was fine but had a pretty outdated selection of packages. I'm glad I've done this.

Now, if I just could find one or two 32 MB memory DIMMs for the Performa to replace my two 16 MB DIMMs...

Re:Mandrake is great - and not only for x86

[Anonymous Coward]

"Now, if I just could find one or two 32 MB memory DIMMs for the Performa to replace my two 16 MB DIMMs..."

Dude, it'd be like $10 on ebay. Not hard to find, I promise.

What can the average user contribute?

[Zorak Man]

I downloaded mandrake, and use it on my desktop and laptop, but I have never paied a dime to any linux or open source project. I'm just a student I can't afford to pay. I am wondering if I am helping or hurting by just grabbing my ISOs and running? It allows the to become noticed by providing free software, but look at music downloads, would you download a song and then go pay for the album just to support the artist?

Re:What can the average user contribute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Report any bugs, and how to recreate them.
With this feed back they can make their programs better.

Re:What can the average user contribute?

[NoahsMyBro]

I have a couple of reactions to this.

1) C'mon - if you really wanted to, you could find a way to pay - $80 is equivalent to 2 or 3 nights out - 2 or 3 dinner & a movies, or a couple of nights of bar hopping will run just as much.

OR,

2) On the other hand, there is the Microsoft business model to consider. You are using an unpaid for copy of Mandrake. You use it for a few years - you get proficient at it, knowledgeable about it, and come to like it and rely on it. A few years down the road, when you are in a business setting, you may have input into what OS will be on one or several PCs in the office. You are more inclined to choose Mandrake based on your past experience. AND, this being a corporate environment, Mandrake will get paid this time around. So you can consider it still beneficial to Mandrake, only with a long time-delay before the payoff.

Re:What can the average user contribute?

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously have hardware and networking resources available. You can test the packages, provide useful feedback, grab the source, learn how it works and maybe give back some patches if things do not work as expected. I think that would be good enough for the folks at Mandrake.

Re:What can the average user contribute?

[stangbat]

Use it, help others, submit bugs, and tell anyone who cares about it. Join the club when you have the financial means to do so.

I played with Mandrake for several releases before finally joining the club and giving them my money. I guess I felt somewhat guilty, but I also thought they earned it.

Re:What can the average user contribute?

[Anonymous Coward]

,----
| $80 is equivalent to 2 or 3 nights out - 2 or 3 dinner & a movies,
| or a couple of nights of bar hopping will run just as much.
`----

Wow. Where do you live? Dinner, a movie and a nightcap for 2 will
usually run well over $100 for me.

Re:What can the average user contribute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was trying to give the original poster the benefit of the doubt. I could live pretty cheaply while in College, and I knew others that could live far more cheaply than I.

MandrakeClub Subscription

[Anonymous Coward]

If you find yourself looking for Mandrake rpm's all the time, searching forums with the keyword Mandrake often enough, or want to join a productive and growing community, consider joining MandrakeClub.

You are supporting Mandrake (the developers, company, and distribution) through MandrakeClub. There are several benefits that are nice to have (select mirrors, a huge archive of Mandrake rpms, and bittorrents for ISO's) not to mention the fact that you are supporting an operating systems designed with you in mind. There are even forums for different languages. This is a volunteer community by-and-large. No one was forced to come because they found Mandrake preloaded on their computer.

You pay for one year, with 4 levels of subscription. A silver subscription gets you most everything you want for $120/year. Remember, you are not just supporting a corporation. You are supporting a free product (development, patching, documentation, and web hosting) which brings free software that much closer to everyone (including you).

I do not work for Mandrake. Look at the options yourself. And remember Linux and Mandrake are not free because they don't cost anything - they are free because they are supported by people who believe they should be free.

Re:MandrakeClub Subscription

[Anonymous Coward]

"A silver subscription gets you most everything you want for $120/year."

Here's something peculiar... Why is it when Apple sells their OS for $129 this supposedly supports the wide-spread allegation that "Macs are expensive"?

Re:MandrakeClub Subscription

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is it when Apple sells their OS for $129 this supposedly supports the wide-spread allegation that "Macs are expensive"?

Sell me OSX for my PC and I'll gladly pay the $129 for it. But I'm not paying 3 grand for Mac hardware that is, by all *rational* consideration, inferior. I can buy a $999 Dell that will run circles around your Mac.

Re:Mandrake Move, Texstar!

[q2a]

Even better, check out Texstar's work which pre-dates MM;

PClinuxOS Preview 4 Bootable CD based on MDK9.2.

Let's be sure of something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Enron and Worldcom appeared to be doing okay too, and many other tech companies have been known to use "creative accounting practices" to skew their quarterly and yearly figures to impress potential investors.

Am I the only skeptic of such a sudden turnaround? Someone ought to be looking into their capital expeditures to see if they've been writing off some big spending...

Re:Let's be sure of something...

[Dcnjoe60]

Chapter 11, or whatever the French version is called, is there precisly to keep "creative accounting" from happening. Once declared, the courts oversee all of the accounting practices. That guarantee of sound numbers (whether good or bad) is what creditors and investors rely on.

Remember that Mandrake is still under the court's protection. They can't publish results without the court's approval and verification of the results.

You have no clue what you are talking about

[abhikhurana]

RPM hell? When was the last time you used mandrake? You do know that you have to configure urpmi so that it can download latest software from mirrors, which by the way can easily be found on this site:
Easy Urpmi
Subscription service is a value added service for club members. There you can get the latest test software and then club members test them before they are released to rest of the public. So get a clue before starting to flame.

Re:You have no clue what you are talking about

[Anonymous Coward]

you did notice the maintainer of that site "doesn't have the time" to keep ontop of the mirrors. that sounds dodgy as hell to me. so much for stability..

Re:You have no clue what you are talking about

[Rumagent]

amen brother. That particular complaint were solved *long* ago, it getting the same rpm-whining over and over again, does get tiresome.

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[account_deleted]

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That name...

[Anonymous Coward]

I said it before, and I say it again:

They might see more subscriptions if they would consider a name change or at least give an alternative, more business-like name to their products.

I, for one, do not like to have an entry for 'Mandrake Club Services', paid to a French company, in my books.
Imagine the astonishment of the taxman when I try to deduct this as a professional expense.

Re:That name...

[Apostata]

"Imagine the astonishment of the taxman when I try to deduct this as a professional expense." ...and when he realises that you've wasted so much time worrying about the implications of $60, which is probably what you spend per month in fluffy pillows for your tired little head.

Consider Mandrake for the community support

[meanfriend]

I took my first serious foray into Linux about a year age with MDK9.0 on it's reputation as a 'newbie' distro. It has a LARGE and friendly user base and that (IMHO) must be taken into consideration when you are getting into Linux

Let's face it. People who are trying to learn Linux are going to run into difficulty at some point, period. Sometimes people need to ask simple questions that would get scornful "RTFM n00b!" replies on any other group, but someone in an MDK forum will at least point you in the right direction without ripping your head off.

Linux requires you to know stuff about your OS, and part of the learning curve is learning *how* to help yourself. Snooty attitudes from ubergurus are about as counterproductive as can be.

alt.os.linux.mandrake is an AMAZING resource. Some issues are distro specific and because the MDK user base is so large, chances are someone else had already had that problem and someone else has offered a solution. As a resource for troubleshooting, having access to a large friendly newsgroup (which is fully archived by groups.google.com to boot) that uses your specific distro cannot be understimated.

Now that MDK is the only commercial distro that 1) targets ease of use for the consumer desktop 2) has a significant sized friendly community and 3) allows full ISO downloads for free*, it's a no brainer for anyone wanting to get into linux

*it obviously costs them money to develop or distribute it. Feel free to download the ISOs to try it out, but consider supporting them by buying a retail pack or syearly subscription if you continue to use it.

Re:Consider Mandrake for the community support

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sometimes people need to ask simple questions that would get scornful "RTFM n00b!" replies on any other group, but someone in an MDK forum will at least point you in the right direction without ripping your head off."

True - but watch out for Peter T. Breuer. He can be helpful, but only once he's put you in your place and demonstated his "superiority".

"Snooty attitudes from ubergurus are about as counterproductive as can be."

I couldn't agree more.

Bankruptcy Primer

[Anonymous Coward]

Bankruptcy is not a bad thing, particulary Chapter 11. Chapter 11 provides an opportunity to stop, catch your breath, and reassess things. From the instant (down to the very second) that a petition is filed, all debt collection activities must stop. (called the "automatic stay") Then the Debtor In Posession (what they call it when the person who declared bankruptcy is left in charge of it) lists all their debts and liabilities, all their assets, and makes up a plan to repay the debt. If a certain percentage of the creditors (the people who are owed the money) agree to the plan, it gets implemented. There may be incentives to meeting certain goals in the plan. For example if the debtor makes all of his planned payments in the first two years, and gets 85 to 90% of their debt paid down, they may get the rest forgiven. It all depends on what the Debtor and Creditors (represented by the Creditor's Committee) agree to. Debtors rarely stay in Chapter 11 for more then three years; at which time they either emerge from bankruptcy, or convert to a Chapter 7 liquidation. The whole thing operates with little intervention by the courts. (that's why being a bankruptcy judge is a sweet job. All the perks of a full "Article III" Judge, but no lifetime tenure.) Just for reference:

Chapter 7, liquidation. Corporations and individuals. They take all your non-exempt stuff and sell it to pay off what they can. After that, most all of the remaining debts are wiped clean. Contrary to popular belief, your student loans are NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Chapter 9, Municipalities and gov't entities. Not really used anymore, except for Orange County CA in the early 90's.

Chapter 11, Reorganization. For all corporations and some individuals with complex finances.

Chapter 12, Farmers.

Chapter 13 It's basically simplified Chapter 11 for individual persons (not corps) with simple finances. Meant to streamline the process.

Lagniappe Fun Fact: Chapter 12 is the only even numbered chapter in the entire bankruptcy code. No on has any idea why this is.

Up to the EU Competition commissioner now.

[openmtl]

Mandrake always has been a desktop distro. Wider adoption requires two things to happen; financial stability for Mandrake and an equal playing field for Linux.

Red Hat have handed Mandrake the desktop baton. The failure of US Justice department to get anywhere near solving the antitrust issues with current desktops pretty well spoiled the opportunity for Linux desktops in the US. Maybe Lindows will fight the defence on behalf of the US consumer.

Mandrake is delivering on the financials. Now lets see what the EU Commission on competition does on helping to create a level playing field. Will the rights of consumers prevail ? Munich is an important proving ground but expect some serious payola to flow to stop other cities. Whats 40 Billion USD work out to be in Euros now ?.

Re:Up to the EU Competition commissioner now.

[Richthofen80]

I disagree with your assesment. I doubt any committee or any government regulators will do anything to 'level the playing field.'

Any time a company needs the government to rule a certain way to profit, that company doesn't have a sound business model.

Software is something between customers and consumers. governments may lend a hand in this case, but why does one company, like Mandrakesoft, deserve a government's help, and another company, say, microsoft, deserve a government's crippling legal action?

The only 'fair' or 'level' playing field is one in where companies develop a product, and customers buy one. I don't trust government meddling in software, or the internet, or any other issue... at least with a company, I can buy or not buy.... or, as linus did, write my own.

I also disagree with 'mandrake delivering on the financials'. I like mandrake, I bought my copy of 7.2 a few years back. made a nice webserver and taught me a lot. But it isn't in good times financially. While they may post a profit, they haven't proven that their customer base will expand.

personally, I believe that linux has to start approaching small computer resellers / vendors and get itself on those PCs. Charge 1/10th the license fee, offer the complete software package (os, office suite, art tools, etc) and get your product out there.

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[account_deleted]

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A vote for Mandrake is a vote for Saddam

[Anonymous Coward]

Why support a company based in a country that back-stabs its supposed friends to get oil from a murderous monster...Saddam..

Scum sucking Frogs!

Enjoy... Hell Frenchie. Good riddance..

Re: Pan Handling

[Anonymous Coward]

> See, Darl? Money CAN be made from selling software.

Don't you mean begging people for donations to help pull you out of debt? Either way, I suppose it's better than the litigious route.

Quality

[dimss]

I hope this will improve quality of their releases. Quality was the reason why we switched to Mandrake four years ago.

Company-made reports look pretty but...

[magarity]

Not to rain on the parade but please notice that this is a Mandrake company web page with some pretty graphs and just a handfull of numbers. Dunno about you, but I prefer to see official financial filings with an auditor's stamp of approval. Even just a regular cash flow statement and a balance sheet would be nice.

Re:Company-made reports look pretty but...

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like the "Arthur Andersen"-stamps and -signatures on Enron's figures?

Great install. Update -- that's another thing

[chooks]

I've been using MDK for almost 2 years now and think that it is a great distro with the exception of its updating mechanism. Generally, I haven't had very much luck with its update (either requiring a fresh install or the update breaks things that worked before)

Separate /, /usr, and /home partitions though make this at least somewhat workable. And at least the install is pretty easy (and does a nice job with autodetecting most things so I don't have to do things like set my monitor scane rates manually)

Overall all, though I've been pretty impressed with each release of MDK.

Creditor's took it in the a**?

[Cleetus Freem]

That is a GOOD thing? Can you imagine your outrage if YOU "took it in the a**" because you had extended credit (or simply allowed deferred payments) to needy purchasers and they then filed for bankruptcy?

I used to work for a small online retailer. We lost enough money from overseas ripoffs, challenged credit card charges and destructive idiots (ex. spilling coke on a sensitive eletronic component and then sending it back with a threat to sue us for selling "crap") that enough companies giving it too us in the a** via bankruptcy would have been too much. Come on!

Re:Creditor's took it in the a**?

[Anonymous Coward]

well thats business...
would you rather have had that company go out of business, and you still dont get paid.,

see if they go bankrupt and dissolve the company, thats it , its overe you dont get money either.

atleast with the chapter 11 a lot of the creditors will

Re:Creditor's took it in the a**?

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

That's capitalism! (tm)

Risk is part of a business. You should always be prepared to pay for it if you give out loans or whatever. Unless you are not a capitalist, you only have the "right" to complain if there is some illegal activity going on.

If you invest in the stock market (via stocks or bonds) and if you lose anything, you shouldn't be complaining...

BTW, I'm not saying you DESERVE any of it... all I'm saying is that capitalism is all about that...

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Re:Creditor's took it in the a**?

[Cleetus Freem]

Capitalism is an economic system.
Gloating that your supplier "took it in the a**" is being an a**hole.
Understand yet? :)

revenue is down, nothing to do with dollar

[Anonymous Coward]

No - revenue is is Euros. And it's down. And revenue can't just be down because of the exchange rate, unless you only count revenue in dollars ... but why would you want to do that?

Question for current Mandrake Users....

[StressGuy]

Based upon the discussions in this thread, I went to the website. And saw that the "Powerpack Edition" has the following:

1) VmWare (workstation edition)
2) VariCAD
3) Win4Lin

The whole thing is $69 USD, seems like a helluva deal.
.
Am I missing something? Are these just "evaluation version"?

Re:Question for current Mandrake Users....

[joestar]

> Am I missing something? Are these just "evaluation
> version"?

Of course yes.

Mandrake is a good distro for old users too..

[msimm]

At some point hand configuring everything gets pretty old. Mostly I like to just use my computer and Mandrake has the simple usability so many other good systems lack (Debian/Gentoo/Etc). Not to knock them, but even smart people get lazy and it always kind of made me laugh that that a usable systems is sort of looked down on, like there's some reason in 2003 we should still be doing everything by hand. To me high-tech should be transparent and usable.

Diversity = long term health and freedom

[nv5]

I'm very hopeful that Mandrake will survive. In addition to being a really nice distro for many years, we need diversity, so I want SuSE (Novell), RH, Mandrake, Debian, the *BSD's, Apple and many more to thrive. At the risk of being modded (is that a word?) to hell, I even want MS to survive long term, since MS's misbehaviours are a big driver for the tons of good work being done in the open source and free software arena, as well as some of the better attitudes in traditional companies like IBM, Sun and Apple.

Only a wide open and long term competition of approaches, value systems and individual people ensures positive progress and yes: freedom!

Related graphic

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the link.

Troll..

[msimm]

Mandrake started their "Mandrake Club" in late 2001. You can read the press release here (December 10th 2001) and a related Slashdot story here. As you know, of course from reading, Mandrake filed for protection at the end of January 2003.

Your just another troll, not even good enough to do a quick search. I applaud Mandrake and their attempt to build a successful and progressive business model. I'm a member since 2001.

Re:Troll..

[The Bungi]

Ahh. Perhaps that explains why they asked for donations. No wait, it doesn't. You know, donations. As in "give us money or we will die". The club deal would have been fine except that it did not work. Ergo, beg for cash. What part of that did you not understand?[1]

I applaud Mandrake

Yes, I'm you sure do. Now be a good little zealot and fuck off.

[1] This is a rethorical question, so don't try to answer.

Good news

[vbweenie]

Ironically, this news makes me feel more like paying up for Mandrake Club membership - at the point when they needed it most, it seemed least worthwhile since who knew when they might be going out of business? God, what a shitty way to think. I'm glad they've managed to pull through in spite of people like me.

Re:Great install. Update -- that's another thing

[demo9orgon]

Chooks-sama,
urpmi is your mdk friend.
Your very best mdk friend.

Spend an hour with this, and if you have the hard-drive to do so, create a folder in rootspace, say /mandrake/9.2/
blow all the RPMS from the disks into it

Then
urpmi.addmedia -f mrpms file://mandrake/9.2

Then you can use the GUI to look through your media sources, and all the installs can come from that media source.

Be sure to add an "update source" using the GUI interface because that's not very friendly yet, but after that a quick trip to

man urpmi

will always steer you in the right direction.

There's other tools similar to this which stomp on "anti-RPM" sentiments like a grape. I once hated RPM distros but Mandrake has done an incredible job.

Debian is dying

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

Um...

[cjpez]

it shows that an appropriate business model can help Linux companies greatly

I wasn't aware that periodically begging for financial help from your users could be considered an "appropriate business model."

Origin of Mandrake's woes

[Sire Enaique]

Mandrake's financial troubles actually have little to do with their current business model.

See their explanation here:

www.mandrakelinux.com/en/future.php3

Briefly, after a profitable first year in 1999 as a small distro maker, they let venture capitalists into the capital.

Those investors brought in a new management team which multiplied the workforce by ten almost overnight and steered the company towards e-learning.

The results of this strategy were catastrophic - Mandrake's burn rate reached 1.5M USD/month.

In April 2001, the founders resumed control of the company, refocused on Linux and started repairing the damage.

Filing for chapter 11 was a sound decision in this context, as it gave Mandrake some breathing space to get back on its feet.

JAPOU

[msimm]

Just another pissed off user trolling on a forum.

Re:JAPOU

[The Bungi]

Well, if I'm a troll, you're just pathetic.

Re:JAPOU

[msimm]

Are you for real?

Mandrake the Anti-Red Hat

[Anonymous Coward]

? What's with all this Anti-Red Hat business. RH giving away the desktop to MDK? Utter BS. You will see my fine fuzzy friends. Wait a few years.

Cough *Fedora* Cough

[bogie]

" without going the redhat way of dropping the home user line entirely. "

As pointed out above they obviously didn't drop the home user.

Also I'd like to point out that Mandrake now has a policy of only allowing paying users to access Mandrake linux when it comes out. Only later does the rest of the world get access to it. Since the paying users are the only ones making Mandrake any money its not unlikely that sooner or later Mandrake will stop offering it for Free.

Red Hat still pays developers to code on a product that they give away and support with updates for Free. Red Hat Fedora may not be the best choice for businesses, but for the average Linux user who reinstalls once a year it work fine.

Re:Cough *Fedora* Cough

[ReinoutS]

Also I'd like to point out that Mandrake now has a policy of only allowing paying users to access Mandrake linux when it comes out. Only later does the rest of the world get access to it.

Yes, when 9.2 came out, Club members got privileged access to the ISO-torrents, but at that time anyone could update his current install or do a network install from the ftp mirrors. Plus, of course the ISO's appeared on public P2P networks anyway, and while perhaps not so nice towards Mandrakesoft, this was completely legal.

Since the paying users are the only ones making Mandrake any money its not unlikely that sooner or later Mandrake will stop offering it for Free.

This is just spreading FUD. There is no evidence indicating Mandrakesoft will stop offering their distro for free. Statements from execs are always to the contrary. So get your facts straight please.

MDK was profitable in 1999

[hingo]

The intro is incorrect. Mandrake already had a very profitable quarter in 1999, which BTW was rather unusual for a Linux distro at the time. Then came the venture capitalists, and that was the end of profitability.

henrik

I agree with what you are saying...

[Cleetus Freem]

But you missed my point. Bankruptcy is a part of business, true... gloating about how your suppliers "took it in the a**" is just stupid. Period.

Another important point to support Mandrake

[theolein]

It's the only "large" commercial distro left in Europe, since SuSE now belongs to Novell. I don't mean to flame the US, but I sort of feel it's good for distros to be seperated in different countries, as crazy as that may sound.

Improving financial health?

[Combuchan]

I'm looking at Mandrake's two-page year-end "Newsletter to Investors" and I can qualtitatively say that there's no way one could definitively say their financial health is improving.

I'm not sure if it's just rigorous US accounting standards have kept me from the harsh realities of international investing, but I have no idea about Mandrake's debt position, their return on investment, where exactly they're generating cash flow (operating, investing, or financing activities--they're very different) and about fifty other such ratios and line-items and on average fifteen pages of notes that are given for you or very easy to figure out on companies that follow U.S. Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP).

Compare the annual report of any publically traded U.S. company (here's Intel's annual 2002 report--the PDF is 102 pages) and you'll notice that a lot more information is given to investors and shareholders. We have, off the top of my head, the usual letter to shareholders from the CEO, some "PR fluff", the balance sheet, income statement, statement of cash flows, notes to consolidated financial statements, a signed auditors report indicating you can actually trust the data, segmental data, and thorough management discussion and analysis (MD&A) in which the company's head honchos actually talk about their company's financial health.

I'm not dissing MandrakeSoft in any way, I think their software is top-notch and with the disappearance of Red Hat from the consumer line I think Mandrake has a critical role.

I think it's important for /. readers to know that accounting and investing or disgustingly complex topics, and most shareholders don't read the annual reports or know enough to make sense of the number and subsequently get caught up in the bandwagon without a further analysis. It's very easy to lose your money in this market simply by not looking at the books.

Mandrake, for example, could be earning all their money from external financing and losing money from operations. That looks good on your income statement but if you don't check the statement of cash flows, you wouldn't know about that and you'd bee royally screwed when those external lenders come to collect. Plus, all I know about their debt situation is that they're in chapter 11--how much debt do they really have? I could think of a hundred other questions not answered by their newsletter.

Mandrake's "newsletter" does not give me the numbers I need to make that sound analysis.

Oh, and before some of you wiseguys respond to this, realise that Enron, et al. are the EXCEPTIONS, not the rules.

Re:Great install. Update -- that's another thing

[demo9orgon]

ARGH!
After re-reading the parent to this parent I _finally_ understood the issue.
(therin I post, guilty of reading, yet not understanding, gad...)

So there I was, handing out "How to upgrade/install packages from a HD repository" when the original issue deals with the borked/broken "UPGRADE MANDRAKE LINUX" problem. (application of palm to forehead...completed)

Yes, upgrading the entire distro is a broken mess using the Mandrake "upgrade" option from the install menus during boot/install to upgrade Mandrake Linux.
I've never had that work, ever. The sad thing is, that I know I'm not alone. It's probably some kind of never-ending issue like the KPPPD/dialer problems.
It's always been easier to just setup a "/home" partition and know that anything short of being brain-dead and formatting that partition everything should come back up, post-install.

If there's some way to do an upgrade from one version of Mandrake Linux to another version of Mandrake Linux (maybe using a combined media-source on a Windows FAT partion and have the install automagically generate a heuristics file) aside from the CD's that would be an interesting tip because it's hard to be at the machine 9 or 10 hours before it starts failing to install RPMS' and then fails the upgrade, leaving you wondering why you even bothered.

(BING! Just had an idea!)
Maybe this is what the DVD-ROM of Mandrake Linux is for. Being able to just put that puppy in the drive, click a few buttons, and then walk away...I dunno. At this point it's the caffiene talking, that or...

Re:Great install. Update -- that's another thing

[chooks]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've used urpmi a little bit, but I'll take a closer look at it.