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Israeli Gov't Begins Testing Mandrake Linux

Posted by timothy on from the right-to-left dept.

DJStealth writes "According to this article on Arutz 7/Israel National News, the Israeli Gov't is beginning to move away from Microsoft and is testing localized versions of Mandrake Linux in the Treasury dept. as the contract with MS expires this month. This all despite a recent defense ministry contact with MS."

70 of 397 comments (clear)

  1. Is this a growing trend in business? by tx_kanuck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTA: "Microsoft heaped scorn on the Commerce Department's decision to abandon Office for the software alternative."

    From other places "We'll sue our customers so that they have no money to buy our products"
    "We'll charge everyone a licence fee for OSS that we don't own"

    Evidently the economy has become an exercise in how much abuse consumers will take. I wonder how long it will take before consumers sit up and go "WTF Mate?"

    --
    Now, if that makes sense to anyone, could you please explain it to me? I think I've confused myself.
    1. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, in showing your surprise, you're also showing just how naive you have been to date.

      These are all aspects of "what the market will bear" which has been standard business practice since something like the 80s (or is that 70s?)

      There is zero concept of "fair market value" in the business world today, only "how hard can we screw our customers before they're no longer customers of ours?".

      Ask any economist, this is "the standard business model" today.

      --
      Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
    2. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by KoolDude · · Score: 5, Funny


      Ask any economist, this is "the standard business model" today.

      Nope. We're talking about Microsoft here. They *never* stick to the standards. :)

      --
      getSexySig(); /* returns sexy signature */
    3. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Feh. It's bad news if you work for IBM in the US. It's fantastic news if you're an Asian IBM contractee. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and if they can do the job for less more power too them. If they can't, someone at IBM will get their ass kicked, and the next round of contracts will be given to US locals.

      I, for one, am sick of the anti-Asian xenophobia that rears its head on Slashdot fairly regularly.

    4. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by jsebrech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder how long it will take before consumers sit up and go "WTF Mate?"

      I wonder how long it will take before people will realise how insulting the word "consumer" is as a label for a customer. Businesses used to deal with customers, and treat them well, now they deal with consumers, and so all they feel they need to do is produce stuff for consumption (and are insulted when people refuse to consume it, as exemplified by the RIAA). This dehumanization of business is what makes the corporate world suck so much nowadays.

    5. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ask any economist, this is "the standard business model" today.

      Uh, any economist should tell you that "what the market will bear" is one of the fundamentals of capitalism - it's hardly something that's just popped up in the last few decades.

    6. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by Afrosheen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The main factor here in having lower wages for Asians in general is cost of living. When, in Thailand, you can get a fresh bowl of rice and seafood soup for less than $1 US, and a nice apartment with air conditioning and plenty of space costs you around $150-$200 a month (depending on region), how can US companies compete on labor costs? The US has a horribly inflated cost of living compared to asian countries and arguably the quality of life isn't that much better. At least in Thailand you can afford to get dental work done, some people fly there just for that reason. For the price of a root canal here you can fly to Bangkok and get all the work you need done professionally.

    7. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by be-fan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Interesting you should mention Thailand. I was actually born in Bangkok (my parents were living there at the time), and have been back many times since. You're absolutely right about the cost of living. At first, I was embarrassed about giving the bellboy a $0.50 tip, until I realized how cheap everything there was. The quality of life there certainly isn't as high as it is here, for the professional class (which anybody contracted to an American company would be a part of) in Bangkok its not that much different from parts of urban Europe. European standards of living might seem very low to Americans (most households only have a single TV!) but its an entirely livable lifestyle.

      Now, as for how the United States can compete with the price of living in other countries, the simple fact is that it doesn't need to. If the cost of living in Thailand is much lower than the US, than jobs that can be exported are exported. So the US does lose hi-tech jobs. On the other hand, that creates a demand for other types of jobs in the US. For example, you'll need new people to handle the communications between the company and teams located in other countries. Its a basic economic principle that the number of jobs lost because of such events is less than the number of jobs gained. Also, remember that Thailand and a number of other asian countries have very quickly growing economies. As an economy grows, the cost of living rises. Eventually, the economy will hit a state where it is no longer profitable to export jobs to the country, because the cost of living is so high. This happened, for example, with Hong Kong, where the per-capita GDP has approached 80% of that of the United States.

      Consider a real-world example (that I ripped from an economics text :) The United States has an international agreement to protect textile jobs in the United States. So far, it has saved about 79,000 textile jobs. However, adhering to that agreement costs the country about $16 billion dollars a year in lost revenue in other industries. That means for each job saved, it is costing the US economy $202,000 a year. Also consider NAFTA. When NAFTA was created, there were numerous complaints that it would destroy the US economy, because jobs would be sucked over to Mexico. While many jobs were indeed sucked over to Mexico, many new jobs were created here for Americans.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    8. Re:Is this a growing trend in business? by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a fundamental, but taking it out of a broader context is something that has been developing among MBAs and pro-capitalism speakers lately. It's like the principle that there is no cap on potential investment gains. That only makes real sense if two other principles are included - 1. There is no cap on losses either - 2. Even though gain can go arbitrarily high, there are always market forces trying to bring it into line with the rest of the economy.
      What the market will bear for a single quarter is not what the market will bear. What the market will bear with the government providing police to enforce it isn't what the market will bear (and isn't capitalism either once the government tries to supercede the invisible hand).

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  2. Re:Good move. by AntiOrganic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I really don't understand the need to mention Bush here.

  3. Office 97 functionality by MoonFog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the article:
    Microsoft heaped scorn on the Commerce Department's decision to abandon Office for the software alternative. The procurement decision relegated users to second best, said local Microsoft officials, comparing Open Office 1.1 functionality to Word 97

    First of all, like has been mentioned numerous times on /., the functionality in Office 97 is sufficient for most users. Very few people use, let alone need, the extra functionality added in the later versions of office.

    Second, this just makes Microsoft sound childish. "Our latest product is better, they're just a rip off from our old products"

    1. Re:Office 97 functionality by mccalli · · Score: 5, Interesting
      First of all, like has been mentioned numerous times on /., the functionality in Office 97 is sufficient for most users.

      Indeed. Here I sit in an Office of one of the worlds largest banks and what is my client box? NT 4, Lotus Notes, Exceed and Office 97.

      Though I'm no fan of Notes, the above is perfectly sufficent for me to do all the work required. You could switch it all to Linux underneath me and I'd barely notice.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:Office 97 functionality by david@ecsd.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's because--let's face it--the mine of the office productivity application has been emptied of its gold. It's gotten to the point where it's pretty damned difficult to screw up something like word processors and spreadsheets. The things have been around since nearly the beginning of the office PC and the wrinkles have been ironed out. What the hell more can a company add? Talking paperclips? Christ, if I were to put down a features table of the major office apps--MS Office, Star/Open Office, Wordperfect's bundle, and Lotus Smartsuite(does IBM even still sell it?)--you'd be hard pressed to find features in one that you can't find in another. Microsoft is milking the franchise; you know it, I know it, Microsoft knows it, and now their customers are starting to catch on to the fact that there are plenty of "just as good" applications out there for cheap, liscensed in such a way that you don't have to be a contract lawyer with 30 years experience to understand the terms. (How difficult is it to understand, "Oh, uhhh, yeah, it's free"?)

      Love,
      Dave

    3. Re:Office 97 functionality by term8or · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Frankly, as a software engineer VI, word 6, Mozilla and a compiler (GNU?) would give me everything I really need.

      As a writer / novelist I find that Word 2000 etc is so helpful that it gets in my way. My productivity is WAY higher using word 6. I've got everything set up just fine; why move all my macros?

      --



      "As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig. :) " - AC
    4. Re:Office 97 functionality by term8or · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not sure how a post about whether Office tools have actually improved enough for it to be worth upgrading should produce a post that argues that you "have" to use visual programming tools to produce good programs. Hint: I have been known to use visual programming tools.

      I have also worked on large-scale projects with little more than a debugger, compiler, and Visio (for basic design drawing). In order to say, "rich visual debugging and design tools are a MUST" you need to furnish us with some evidence, sir. You need to show at a minimum that programmer productivity has significantly improved as a result of introducing such a tool. This would be hard to do. Current evidence suggests that the value from a dollar spent on software has remained nearly static.

      http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/arch ives/001084.html

      The productivity trends from the time that these tools started to be introduced showed a reduction in productivity

      http://ftp.starbase.com/pdf/productivitytrends.pdf

      And, as a general observation, advances in computing have not yet provided a substantial productivity increase. As Robert Solow says, "you can see computers everywhere but in the productivity statistics." One of the main hold-ups in benefits from computing seems to be software production. Simply put, current advances in tools have not produced a real advantage where it matters: software is still hard to construct, and no amount of tools will guarantee that the software you produce will actually work in a way that benefits the clients. You need good people to do that. Tools can help, but people can produce good programs without the tools, and tools won't produce good programs without the people.

      --



      "As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig. :) " - AC
    5. Re:Office 97 functionality by MoonFog · · Score: 5, Funny

      What the hell more can a company add? Talking paperclips?

      SHHH! They might hear you! ;)

    6. Re:Office 97 functionality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My new job in a large corporation came with a brand new Dell desktop running Office 97. It's our corporate standard and nobody misses any of the features of the newer versions of Office.
      The only issues anyone has with Office 97 is that it has occasional incompatibilities with later version MS Word files and all of the later version MS Access files.
      Fortunately, Open Office can open all of these files and convert them to "standard" MS format. /Mark

    7. Re:Office 97 functionality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My productivity is WAY higher using word 6. I've got everything set up just fine; why move all my macros?

      Not to mention the fact that, in order to move your macros, they would effectively have to be rewritten! I used to solve quite a few problems for my customers with macros in Microsoft's Office products. One customer, after going through two rounds of this, balked at the third round and started doing the procedures by hand again. How's that for a productivity tool?

    8. Re:Office 97 functionality by Sire+Enaique · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I remember reading a novelist praising EMACS because it is the closest thing to a text-mode Wordperfect one can get today.

    9. Re:Office 97 functionality by Pfhreakaz0id · · Score: 2, Interesting

      PLEASE don't mention Notes... I have to use this POS everyday. I don't mean to go on a rant here, but, well yeah I do :)

      It has, without a doubt, the stupidest "feature" I've ever seen in a software program in my 20 years of using computers. Sometimes, I have to enter my notes password to EXIT THE PROGRAM. And it's insistent about it, it gets really, really angry if I don't. I understand what it is doing (I have stuff marked for deletion and my session has expired and it is trying to delete mail on exit, but I'm not connected) and I fixed it (change the server timeout to near infinity) -- but it's still dumb.

      --
      DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
    10. Re:Office 97 functionality by mccalli · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'd be a tad concerned if my bank was running on an unsupported operating system

      The majority of banks I know both here in the City of London and also in New York use NT4. Some have recently moved to 2000. There are vague rumours of XP upgrades here, but nothing definite.

      It's worth bearing in mind that when you're the size these banks are, you don't just get the standard consumer deal. I've seen Microsoft engineers dragged in behind me to look at why an SQL Server installation was running so slowly, and patches came out for the product specifically to address the issues they found.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    11. Re:Office 97 functionality by ccp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, Word 6 is the best version of MS Word IMHO.

      I believe that, in fact, Word peaked at 2.0.
      That version was lean and mean, and did everything an Office word processor should do.
      Each version afterwards just added cruft.

      Writing novels shouldn't be done in Word. It's a very different problem space.

      Cheers,

    12. Re:Office 97 functionality by zymurgy_cat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not to mention the fact that, in order to move your macros, they would effectively have to be rewritten!

      That assumes your macros will even work in an updated version. I made the mistake of installing SP3 for Office 2000. It totally disabled the SolverSolve routine when called from a macro. Microsoft's response? "We're aware of the problem and have a fix, but we won't release it until we feel like it."

      This effectively killed my entire Excel workbook that performed some very complicated calculations and optimizations.

      --
      -- Fugacity: Confusing chemists since 1908
    13. Re:Office 97 functionality by Sire+Enaique · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point isn't wether EMACS or Wordperfect or MS Word or GizmoWrite is the Ultimate and Perfect Word Processor, just that it's nice to have a choice.

      Different programs behave differently, and one person might prefer to work with one and another person with a different one, that's all.

    14. Re:Office 97 functionality by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have found Microsoft Word to be the most frustrating program that I have ever used (with the possible exception of a Commodore 64 C compiler).

      Whenever I have to do something semi-serious in Word now, I always take a few minutes to get calm and detached from the anger that I know is going to come.

      It helped greatly to study repeatedly (on my own time and money) several thick manuals on the subject and the 'Word Annoyances' O'Reilly book.

      You just have to tell yourself "What you want to do, It can be done. Or, it's not important. Kittens, little children and blue skies are important; MS Word is not."

      But then I find graphics images that I carefully pasted in a certain place moving around by themselves to other locations. Strange characters and lines appearing with no way to find out what they are and, more importantly, how to get rid of them. A Help function that doesn't help and makes you feel stupid.

      And a boss (a German boss) who gives you a bad performance review because you haven't mastered this piece of absurd software. I've mastered a dozen compliers, assemblers, CAD , PCB and PLD design applications, but not the only program that the boss has ever had to learn. So, bad review.

      I used to deal with the frustration of working with Microsoft Word by making a detailed list of what was wrong and possible ways that it could be improved. But I realised that it was pointless. No one would ever read it. Nothing would ever get any better. Nobody cares....

      Now I spend a hour in the Daisy Kingdom after any major bout with using Microsoft Word. Calm, refocused, kittens, little children, the important things in the real world...

  4. Poor quality gag. by Channard · · Score: 3, Funny
    I really don't understand the need to mention Bush here.

    Oh, come on - you can never have too much bush. Especially at Christmas. I mean holly of course - what did you think I meant?

    1. Re:Poor quality gag. by mattjb0010 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I mean holly of course - what did you think I meant?

      I thought you meant Holly, not holly. ;)

  5. Re:I don't support Zionists. by reub2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Then it isn't free if you put that type of restriction on it. One of the disadvantages of oss.

  6. Re:I don't support Zionists. by Channard · · Score: 4, Funny
    What is the difference between a Zionist and a White Supremacist? Both believe that God has given them dominion over their land and right to kill anyone who resides on it that they don't like.

    Really? You must have seen the director's cut of The Matrix films. I thought the Zionists were more into have huge great rave scenes and then running about in powerloaders.

  7. OSL - licence ? by HansF · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's what you get with that new business model of OSL-license. The lease expires and your customer has to make a decision wether to renew the lease or to go to the competition.
    It's not like in the days a staff decided that since the budget was tight, they'll do another year with their NT4 servers.
    Now, it's pay or bug off.

    --
    --> Insert Funny Sig Here
  8. OSS Good by fmlug.org · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Its interesting where I go to school lots of people are only intersted in useing Microsoft products. Because they believe thats all that used so its the only thing worth using. Some people even get very upset that they have to use a term on a unix box to learn how to program and think that the Linux lab is a complete waste of time and space. I happen to tell then that Microsoft probably only has the majority share of users in the US. There are other countries where users dont have money to spend on an OS. I for on think that all governments should use Open Source software because gov's are for the people Y should they not use an os written by the people they protect. I see this as a good thing and hopefully someday the US will wake up and see the light. Now this post makes me seem like I am saying windows sucks and Linux/BSD rocks, well maybe it is. I believe in using the app the does the best job. Ok if you read this and like it good if not sorry about the rant. :)

    1. Re:OSS Good by mpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I happen to tell then that Microsoft probably only has the majority share of users in the US. There are other countries where users dont have money to spend on an OS.

      Possibly the most interesting thing happening here is that the country in question is has very strong links with the US, is probably the US's strongest ally on the planet and would probably have little problem getting the US Government to give them whatever money they asked for.

    2. Re:OSS Good by weave · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think that can be defensible depending on the type of class or curriculm. For a community college, for example, that teaches hands on office skills, using what the student is likely to find in the work place is probably a good idea. For other types of curricula, like programming concepts, using a certain IDE on a particular platform with a specific API doesn't seem too wise.

      Then again, I work for a community college and I remember in the 80s we taught Lotus 1-2-3 and dBASE III+ in the data processing degree program. I used to bitch that it was stupid to put a particular vendor's program into a degree program. "What if 10 years from now, no one has ever heard of Lotus or dBASE?" The reply was basically that I was an idiot. Those programs have their markets sewn all up, businesses love them, businesses don't tend to change, there is no way anyone could unseat them.

      When I went for my CS degree, I was all excited when it came to assembler class because I had a Mac and the University used Macs and I wanted to learn how to code assembly on the Mac (68000 at the time). Well, I got in the class and they had loaded some program that turned the Mac into a text-only console and we only learned the basics of the assembler language itself, absolutely no toolbox calls.

      I was pissed off, but it turned out to be a good thing in the long run.

      So, I'm agreeing with your statement, just saying I can see some (but not many) exceptions.

    3. Re:OSS Good by zenpiglet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Its interesting where I go to school lots of people are only intersted in useing Microsoft products. Because they believe thats all that used so its the only thing worth using
      It is the best bet given that 95% of PCs run MS software. It would be a pretty poor school that taught its pupils to use software that was used by a tiny fraction of the world. Now software who's main use is to teach something else (say learning French) is ok, but if your aim is to teach IT skills, then surely using the most widely-used and widely-available software is best for the student as they will have some useful skills when they leave.

      I happen to tell then that Microsoft probably only has the majority share of users in the US
      Well, no. They are the global leader in software and as I mention above near every PC runs their software. Just because you see a lot /.'ers from around the world using something different, doesn't mean that they are in any way representative.

      I believe in using the app the does the best job
      Actually, everything else you say clearly indicates that you don't. What you believe in is using the app you like/approve of/use/wrote, etc to do the job. Microsoft apps often are the best for the job, but with your policy they'd be disregarded just because they aren't OSS.

      If you did believe what you say then you wouldn't insist the Government use OSS, Linux, etc and not closed-source (which is largely taken to mean Microsoft, but actually covers many software vendors) - having favourites is not a good way to run a governemnt.

      I know it's hard to believe but Microsoft developers (and other staff) are also 'the people the government protects'. MS is a very American company, so your statement is doubly wrong because recommending MS software would protect US interests more than recommending OSS, which could potentialy be written and distributed without any American input at all, or any gain for America(ns) because no money comes into the country.

    4. Re:OSS Good by sgtrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It is the best bet given that 95% of PCs run MS software...

      ...but if your aim is to teach IT skills, then surely using the most widely-used and widely-available software is best for the student as they will have some useful skills when they leave.

      They are the global leader in software and as I mention above near every PC runs their software...

      I know it's hard to believe but Microsoft developers (and other staff) are also 'the people the government protects'. MS is a very American company...


      Your first statement is probably true. The trend, however, is for Mac OSX and Linux combined to reach 10% penetration worldwide in a year or two. Server growth has been nothing short of spectacular. They've already reached that mark for servers. Merrill Lynch estimated that revenue for Linux server installations grew by 46% to $817 million. Not exactly pocket change. :

      Your second statement is sort of valid. However, IT skills that are limited to a single computing environment are a serious mistake. Education at most institutions should be geared towards teaching you the basics and giving you the tools to learn the advanced stuff wherever you end up. This is true for all education, not just IT.

      Your third statement is misleading. I will stipulate that Microsoft is the world leader in installations. I must disagree, however, if you mean that they are the leaders in technical innovation. Microsoft has been sort of successful in borrowing and stealing ideas from others. They've never really done much in the way of truly unique R&D. In fact, I can't think of a thing off hand that they came up with first. They didn't even invent customer lock in through technology. AT&T did that.

      Finally, IMO Microsoft does not even come close to being a 'good' American company. By that I mean that they show no loyalty to the principles that this nation was founded upon. Intead, Microsoft represents some of the worst of America's flaws. Bill Gates is comparable to J. D. Rockefeller, a man who destroyed every competitor he had by illegal, immoral, and unethical means. The government should be treating Bill like Al Capone, not Albert Schweitzer.
  9. In other news... by davidstrauss · · Score: 5, Funny

    Palestinian officials respond by rejecting Mandrake in favor of *BSD.

    1. Re:In other news... by Thomas+Miconi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Palestinian officials respond by rejecting Mandrake in favor of *BSD.

      About an hour later, the Hamas and the Islamic Djihad made a joint statement in which they condemned the Palestinian Autority's decision on the ground that *BSD was "wholly anti-Islamic". The Hamas spokesman commented that "people who put pictures of smiling devils all over their software should be stoned to death - twice !"

      Twenty minutes later, the Palestinian Authority cancelled the previous announcement and made public a million-dollar contract with a major French company specializing in the production and the commercialization of Abacuses. "In order to leverage our most abundant resources, the PA finance minister said, we will investigate the possibility to use vast quantities of stones and rubble to build abacuses. If massive Beowulf clusters of abacuses are feasible, we may eventually outpower the computational capacities of the occupying forces by several orders of magnitude !"

      Thomas Miconi
      BTW, Mandrake is French, isn't it ?
      BTW2, There was a story on The Onion some time ago. I only managed to find shortened versions of it, e.g. here. I just love the last paragraph. Long live the 'nion.

    2. Re:In other news... by watzinaneihm · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh no they wont. They are planning to make it their official OS. Did you look at the mandrake logo? Its a crescent and a star. It surely has won support in the middle east (and surely in soviet russia). They even used it in their flags.

      --
      .ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
    3. Re:In other news... by ccp · · Score: 3, Funny

      Palestinian officials respond by rejecting Mandrake in favor of *BSD.

      Well, when they discover VI vs. EMACS then they'll have a REAL war.

      Cheers,

  10. Interview on linuxquestions.org ? by vierja · · Score: 2, Informative
    Anyone knows if this is related to what was mentioned in yesterday's interview with Mandrake's founder Gael Duval:

    As for MandrakeSoft, the future looks very good because we recently got our first good successes in local administrations (details will be announced later), so at least we will have business in this field and in the corporate field.

  11. Re:Mixed emotions by Technician · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know it's off topic and feeding the troll, however;

    Wonder what a Linux-powered suicide bomb would look like.

    In all reality, it would be much simpler than a windows box. It could be run without a keyboard and monitor. It could easly be operated remotely via wireless LAN or dialup via telenet. Remote kind of defeats the suicide portion of the troll.

    Most important, It would be very cost effective. No need for an expensive OS for a simple job.

    No need for expensive hardware to run the expensive OS for the simple job.

    An old ISA based PC with a modem (real modem- ya got me on that point) or a NIC and small RAM and HD or CD without a HD would suffice. The Windows solution will not run on a minimual configuration. The NIC or Modem is safer than the sucide option mentioned.

    However you could trade the NIC or Modem for a keyboard and your life for the true sucide option mentioned.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  12. What if MS goes for code review? by kautilya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many governments are going for Linux saying it is free of cost, "open software", etc etc. But, the real reason I think is they believe Linux/Open Software has less chance of any "back door". They don't want every desk in their department to get electronically bugged. Now, imagine the scenario when MS offers for some sort of international code review/certification saying that it is as "safe" as open source (I don't mean "secure" and "bug free" but intentional sabotage..). It would be interesting to see if they still adopt Linux. Now, before all this happens, this is the opportunity for Linux to grab the opportunity and establish itself. Linux should market itself hard so that in the future linux too becomes enough ubiquitious, the only strength windows has. Instead of tamely imitating windows (desktop) time to get more creative and make the OS more usable to the average clerk/secretary who wants a good mail client, a word processor and a browser. Strength builds upon strength. If Linux companies can capitalise on opportunities by skeptical governments, and establishes itself, it shouldn't to be too difficult before we see linux too as an option for an average user. Windows gets its strength from those average users.

    1. Re:What if MS goes for code review? by KoolDude · · Score: 3, Funny


      Linux should market itself hard

      That's why we have the Advanced Linux Marketing System included in 2.6. It elevates the Linux Marketing to an all new level without compromising TCO, IP, ROI, .NET, XML and all other buzz words.

      --
      getSexySig(); /* returns sexy signature */
    2. Re:What if MS goes for code review? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Code reviews by themselves are insufficient. If you want to trust your software you have to not only review the code but also compile it yourself.

      I doubt any governments are dumb enough to swallow a pre-compiled binary even after seeing the supposed source for that binary, and I doubt Microsoft is going to let their customers compile their own binaries of MS products any time soon either.

      Thus, verifiable/trustworthy software will continue to be a key advantages of free software for some time to come.

    3. Re:What if MS goes for code review? by gurumeditationerror · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But, the real reason I think is they believe Linux/Open Software has less chance of any "back door". They don't want every desk in their department to get electronically bugged. Now, imagine the scenario when MS offers for some sort of international code review/certification saying that it is as "safe" as open source (I don't mean "secure" and "bug free" but intentional sabotage..). It would be interesting to see if they still adopt Linux.

      Yeah, I've thought that myself before. But for microsoft to get a government to trust the code review they'd have to give said government all the code that has been reviewed plus the means to compile it and distribute it themselves.
      Other wise it is pointless. "Here are our black boxs and here is the code it runs, honest. No, you can't open them - We've showed you what's in them, really!"

  13. Sounds a lot like the recent Powerpoint article by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The procurement decision relegated users to second best, said local Microsoft officials, comparing Open Office 1.1 functionality to Word 97
    First of all, like has been mentioned numerous times on /., the functionality in Office 97 is sufficient for most users. Very few people use, let alone need, the extra functionality added in the later versions of office.

    Indeed. It sounds much like the Powerpoint article, where the main argument is "blame the tool". In this case "blame the office suite". Of course you need the rudimentary features required to make it look like you want, but it's still the content that matters.

    I really don't see why so much focus is on the tool. Your average run-of-the-mill business letter will look pretty damn near identical if written in OpenOffice, KWord, Word 97 or Word XP. The tool can't do any better than the man wielding it. In case of a word processor, I'd say that nothing the word processor will do makes a significant impact, even with Clippy ;). All the work goes into forming the letter, not formatting the letter.

    Kjella

    P.S. All karma generated by this post dedicated to Opera 7.20. I never could have done it with any other browser. Yeah. Right.
    -
    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Sounds a lot like the recent Powerpoint article by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Informative
      I really don't see why so much focus is on the tool

      It's not the tool, it's the file format that the tool uses. OpenOffice 1.1 still can't flawlessly im/export MS Office 2000 which is 3 year old software.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    2. Re:Sounds a lot like the recent Powerpoint article by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 2, Informative

      "It's not the tool, it's the file format that the tool uses. OpenOffice 1.1 still can't flawlessly im/export MS Office 2000 which is 3 year old software"

      If your priority is opening MS-Office documents, you should consider using OpenOffice. Not only is it often better at opening Word documents than Word itself, but when the file format is upgraded, it will be more likely to support the new format without additional cost.

      There are people asking for "completely the same" as if they can't find anything else that OOo lacks. It's like hearing someone moan that it's not fully compatible because it doesn't have the same Microsoft logo on the box. Yeah, we embedded a video in a powerpoint presentation in a spreadsheet in a document, and now it doesn't work. Duh!

      At university, there were plenty of course materials posted on the intranet in MS-Office format. I could always reliably open them with OpenOffice, whereas people with MSOffice had problems. Example: the title pages that we had to use for the thesis, a .DOC document. Half the class came back the next week to complain that they coulnd't read it, using their latest copies of MS Office. I never noticed a problem, it opened just fine in OOo.

    3. Re:Sounds a lot like the recent Powerpoint article by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's not the tool, it's the file format that the tool uses. OpenOffice 1.1 still can't flawlessly im/export MS Office 2000 which is 3 year old software
      If your priority is opening MS-Office documents
      Well, it's not. Otherwise, I'd have asked for "opening MS-Office documents". No, I asked for "flawless im/export". I want to be able to receive a word-document from a customer, edit it, and send it back.

      For some people, OOo does the job just fine. For me it doesn't. So I paid $55 for Crossover Office.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  14. Re:Free as in Free Jew ..... by Gilesx · · Score: 2, Funny

    But you're only about 14 - that's far too young to be giving *anyone* a BJ, Jewish or not...

    --
    Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
  15. One more year... by horcy · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... and even Microsoft will see the light and switch to *nix

    --
    Check my site: http://pixel.pagina.nl
  16. Re:Good move. by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is a wise move for Israel that I hope will be duplicated all over the world,

    Which would really piss off the US intelligence community..... Which in turn is probably one of the Israeli's motives. I bet the CIA gets a small collective panic attack every time they lose track of what the Israelis are upto.

    AAAHHHHHHHHH......There is nothing like a good conspiracy theory to start the day!!!!

    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  17. Re:Israeli Gov't Begins Testing Zyklon-B by mrsev · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know I shouldnt respond but I cant resist.

    I am not jewish and my grandmother was even a muslim....before you start ranting about me being a zionist..blah blah balh.

    Many I suggest that you go and post somewhere else where there are more of your "kind". Manybe you can dream of your world free from all the things out there that scare you. Frankly I dont care. This is discussion site for tech news and geek stuff. There are many places where people like you can meet and share your bigotry.

    In conclusion, you are a sick and twisted individual. May I remind you that the NAZIs killed not only jews but many other people too. British, american, french, greek, dutch, russion, polish, christian, jew, arab, gay, straight, german, ukraininan..... I have wasted enough of my time on you.

  18. Re:Good move. by CreatorOfSmallTruths · · Score: 5, Informative

    The fact that Israel is in Asia doesn't mean a
    thing...

    Israel has all major companies R&D centers: IBM, Intel, M$.

    Israelies are contributing to linux distributions, open source projects etc. (why else would a birocratic office like the treasury be interested in linux?? someone there thought it was a good idea to pitch the offer)

    Israelies invented ICQ, PHP, the UAV, A couple of smart bombs and some other "low tech" toys you might have heared of (currently they have a missile vs. missile resembling the patriot, a lazer-targeting system designed to target low orbit missiles)

    Don't refer to Israel as third world country. Please.

  19. I've got a better one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The medical school at which I am affiliate faculty (University of South Florida) stipulates(http://hsc.usf.edu/is/standards/student s_med.html ) that students must have a copy of MS Office ("must be purchased") as a condition of attending medical school. No mention is made of "or compatible". From what I can tell from asking the students, the main impetus seems to be that the lectures for the first two years are all given as PowerPoint presentations.

    I don't have any problem with companies deciding to use only Microsoft products if that is their choice, nor do I object to University support policies that focus on MS because they have to use their resources to support the most students in a cost-effective way, but I strongly object to making ownership of MS software a condition of attendance, particularly at a public institution in a state that sued MS for antitrust violations.

  20. What? A Month? by sirReal.83. · · Score: 3, Funny

    They're only giving themselves a month to decide? It usually takes me a week to iron out the config on my own box after a fresh install. Squid this, adzapper that, make a GPG key, why won't iptables block Zope's port...

  21. Zealots by tehanu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally I would use the term Zealots rather than Zionists.

    The Zealots were a bunch of militant religious nuts who dragged the majority moderate Jews to war with Rome, leading to the destruction of Jerusalem, the burning of the Temple and the final destruction of what remained of Israel, leaving the Jews without a homeland for the next 2000 years. They refused to abide any foreign rule because Israel could only be ruled according to the strict word of God and believed that any violent means were acceptable, to achieve their aims. The Jews bitterly regretted the Zealots during their wandering years, but obviously they haven't learnt not to allow their interactions with their neighbours to be ruled by violent militant religious nuts who believe they are on a holy quest from God to maintain the sancitity and purity of the Jewish state.

    Zionism used to be quite secular and was actually despised by Jewish fundamentalists. Then it got hijacked by militant fundamentalists who want to recreate the Israel of Solomon and David. Never mind that particular Israel hasn't existed for over 2000 years and other people settled in the region over the last couple of millenia. While the majority of Israelites just want to live their lives and don't give a damn about Greater Israel, the rantings of the settlers involve lines like "God gave us this land so it belongs to us. The Palestinians should acknowledge us as the rulers or they should just get out." The fact that most people don't seem to realise that *both* sides are driven by religious nuts who are perfectly willing to use force against innocent civilians to achieve their aims and don't care a whit about the suffering of their own people just shows that the Jewish Zealots have a better PR machine.

    The funny thing is now the Jews are coming to realise that if they keep the Palestinian lands, they will soon no longer be a Jewish state because the Arab birthrate is much higher. So the options are to either reliquish the land and remain small, but democratic and Jewish. They could keep the land, and remain Jewish by not allowing the Arabs to vote in a sort of apartheid system therefore no longer be a democracy (what do you call a country where the majority are not allowed to vote because of their race?). They could keep the land, and remain Jewish by driving all of the Arabs out ie. ethnic cleansing (Israel could be the first democracy to do ethnic cleansing...). Or they could keep the land, remain a democracy and the Jewish nature of the state will be wiped out in a decade when Arabs form the majority of the population,and vote in an Arab PM. Personally I'd choose (1) but somehow I have a feeling the zealots are going to drive Israel to (2) or (3). If (4) happens I'd consider it karma.

  22. Re:I don't support Zionists. by adrianbaugh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, it seemed to be Zionists you wanted to get at, rather than Israelis in general. It seems a case of "hammer to crack a nut". Have you ever wondered whether the freedom of your country would be threatened if you had freedom of speech, civil rights and democracy (for all)?
    Someone once said: "If you sacrifice freedom for security you deserve neither." I think you eloquently prove his point; moreover, I suspect that if you sacrifice freedom for security not only do you deserve neither but you will get neither.

    --
    "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
    - JRR Tolkien.
  23. Power to tha Duck by capn_buzzcut · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I think it's great not only that they're looking at Linux, but also that they're considering Mandrake.

    To go along with their recent financial success, a win here would be absolutely huge for them.

    --
    "And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"
    1. Re:Power to tha Duck by sniggly · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I agree, I like mandrake and wish them all the best.

      Redhat spawned fedora, fedora is "unsupported" and what remains are high priced RHELs. Fedora has a very strong community around it but its stated purpose is to be a labrat for RHEL.
      Suse never had ISOs for download which is their right as a company but a linux distribution usually is more than the company doing the distributing. Now that suse is a Novell company we'll have to see how true to the OSS Suse remains.
      Sun is a new linux distributor and we'll just have to see how true to the community they will be. After all they could have called it the Sun Gnome Desktop (which it is) instead of the Sun Java desktop (which it isn't as much)...

      Mandrake is the one remaining big linux distribution (still the biggest in terms of desktop install base) that is tightly interwoven with its supporting community.

      --
      Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
  24. 1 month? by blanks · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't matter, 1 month isn't enough time to switch over a small office over to Linux, let alone an entire governments structure and closed source software.

    They may decide to switch over, but it will be over a few years, and will continue using their existing OS.

    --
    TruePunk | Games
  25. Re:Yes, but why? by Monkelectric · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wish I had the link, but there is a paper out there about how Microsofts income is primarily derived from pension plans and tax breaks, and has very little to do with software. The author claims that when MS goes belly up it will make enron look like nothing.

    --

    Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

  26. When Diplomacy Fails by ReadParse · · Score: 4, Funny

    WASHINGTON, DC - Only minutes after Secretary of State Colin Powell this morning announced that computing talks with Israel had broken down, Communications Minister Reuven Rivlin held a press conference to declare that Israel intended to go ahead with this week's planned Mandrake Linux testing.

    Minister Rivlin downplayed the computing tensions that might result along the Lebanese border. "Israel's computing sovereignty will not be challenged. If we want to move to BeOS, HP-UX, Solaris, PC-DOS... we cannot yield to world opinion when it comes to protecting our right to compute as God promised us we would be able to do."

    Israel's testing of Mandrake Linux comes on the tails of a 7-month period of testing of FreeBSD by most of that countries Arab neighbors. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had instructed Minister Rivlin in recent weeks to begin preparations for Linux testing, despite President Bush's calls for restraint.

    A Microsoft spokesman expressed sadness in a telephone conference call with the press this morning. "This is about more than a contract between the government of Israel and Microsoft," he said with a cracking voice. "It's about the stability of computing standards in the Middle East. I can't stop thinking about those kids." It is unclear at press time what in the world he was talking about.

  27. Re:Yes, but why? by orlord · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.billparish.com/presslist.html

  28. Life in the day of an Israeli by TheLoneCabbage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry for the off topic, but I'm sick of this nonsense. If I can put some sense into one pea brain then I hve to . Mod me as you will.

    As we know all Israeli's are evil. After living here for a year, I thought I'd translate a days activities to you:

    Avi a dark skined man walks out of his mansion, onto a street filled with mansions, and climbs into his car. A 50 ton armourd bulldozer. Suddenly his cell phone rings.

    Avi: Shalom! (hi/peace/goodbye)

    Yitzak: Hey Avi, how's it going?

    Avi: Well it was a rough day yesterday. I was too busy studying the King James Bible in english to get any real work done.

    Yitzak: You know Sharons going to get really upset with you if you don't get your quota in.

    Avi: How am I supposed to kill 10,000 arab children a day and still have time to spend with my wife and kids?

    Yitzak: Well I was just calling you to let you know I'm building a new settlement.

    Avi: Don't you already have 5 already?

    Yitzak: Yeah, but I already drove the arabs out of those areas, so I thought I'd build another one. I could have chosen any of the thousands of hecktars of land that are empty, but it's just no fun without destroying a fellow human beings life.

    Avi: Oh that reminds me, did you get the buliten in the mail about the last Elders Meeting?

    Yitzak: Yeah, wow, were doing great! Bush even came this time! Even bowed down for Sharon. It was a real crowd pleaser. I'm telling you it's been gravey train ever since the Holocost. Best thing that ever happend to us.

    Avi: Ok I gotta go, and meet quota. Catch up latter at the cafe?

    Yitzak: Sure thing budy! The "Childrens Blood" is on me!

    Avi: Shalom!

    Yitzak: Shalom!

    Wake up call.

    Fact:

    * Israeli's don't drive bulldozers to work.

    * Israeli's are no fonder of seeing children die needlessly than anyone else.

    * Jews don't drink human blood, and if you believe this it's also a fact your a moron.

    * 50% of Israelis are from Iraqi, Syrian, Moraccan, Yeminite, Egyptian, Iranian, Jordainian, Afgani, Saudi, Lebanesse, and/or local descent. They tell no plesent stories from their home lands.

    * No arab village has ever been raized to make way for a jewish one, except in cases where the land was owned by "Israelies" pre-48, or in cases of tacticle need. In which case it's eminant domain, and the arab land owners are compensated.

    * 25% of Israelies are not jewish

    * 80% of Jewish Israelies, don't practice any religion. And half of those profess radical secularism. Despite the fact that they actualy speak hebrew, most have never read any section of the Torah (old testament), and have at best a vauge idea of what it is.

    * Most Israelies would rather just get on with thier lives. They neither hate nore care what happens to the "Palistinians" any more.

    * Arabs can and do, walk in Zionist shopping malls, grocerie stores, parks, and public schools. Jews who walkin Arab neiboorhoods are likley to be shot/stabed/beaten etc...

    If you've never been here, you have no right to comment and certainly no right to condemn. If you do live here, you still have no right to condemn, and certainly no right to spread lies and half truths.

    There, now I feel better.

    --
    I would rather be ashes than dust!
  29. Re:Good move. by uradu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > Israelies invented ICQ, PHP, the UAV, A couple of smart bombs and some [more killing tech]

    That's "developed" more than "invented", though one might argue where one stops and the other begins.

    > Don't refer to Israel as third world country. Please.

    Well, South Africa is very similar to Isreal in those areas, yet it's also still struggling to get some respect.

  30. Microsoft's mistake by Sire+Enaique · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Israeli decision probably stems from Microsoft's faux pas last year when they announced that Office XP for MAc would not be localized in Hebrew.

    See _Microsoft's Mac Hebrew snub prompts Israeli AntiTrust complaint_ from the register:
    www.theregister.com/content/archive/296 92.html

    Even if they apparently subsequently reversed their decision the damage was done.

    An important factor here is Israel has a buoyant IT industry and Microsoft's initial decision highlighted the danger of relying too heavily on one single software supplier.

  31. Re:Sharon, Mandrake by Umber+Hulk · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Israel -- In my opinion, Israel is now perpetrating its own Holocaust, and has been so for years. God will damn you, Gen. Sharon. 'Nuff said. [ Reply to This ]

    Where are the death camps?

    If you think Israel is perpetrating its own Holocause, are you man enough to admit also acknowledge that Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan are as well?

  32. What the market will bear by Morosoph · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Uh, any economist should tell you that "what the market will bear" is one of the fundamentals of capitalism - it's hardly something that's just popped up in the last few decades.
    Not quite. First level analysis, yes, but then customers tend to buy what they did last time, so greatest immediate profits may not be synonymous with long-term profitability.

    I was going to make a pun about "bear markets", but it seemed rather poor, and thought that slashdotters would "correct" the joke, po-faced, so I won't.
    --
    Wikileaks, no DNS
  33. No right to comment and no right to condemn by Rupert · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about the hundreds of dollars I personally pay each year that pays for the tanks and bulldozers that aren't demolishing the homes of those deemed insufficiently jewish to be citizens of the country in which they live? I'd say that gives me a right to comment.

    --

    --
    E_NOSIG