HD DirecTiVo And Other CES Treats

Gadget Guy writes "The CEA (Consumer Electronics Association) has announced their CES (Consumer Electronics Show) Innovations 2004 winners. Within is a shot of the new Hughes HD DirecTiVo with some new LED's on the front including "Temp" for those sure to be occurring overheats. The surprise winners were the Motorola IM Free with no backlight along with it's "left un-justified" keyboard and the color SideKick who's black and white cousin was debuted at the 2003 CES show. Plus check out this Samsung DLP TV! Stealth bomber cool!"

Comments

HD Tivo!

[Roark Meets Dent]

It's about time Tivo service was available for high-definition... now if it could only sort my groups without those stupid duplicate entries... or do a season pass for all channels a show appears on.

Re:HD Tivo!

[pogopogo]

Um, you can do a season pass for all channels. Just create a wishlist item for the title of the show and it will record it on every channel.

So make a wishlist for "Sex and the City" or Seinfeld and it will record the episode from all the channels.

Re:HD Tivo!

[ThePixel]

Actually, it doesn't always work -- for instance, I get local chanels via DirecTiVo, but a season pass will only grab either the local channel shows, or the DirecTV shows. Never both. So If a show (such as Stargate SG-1 appears on SciFi and my local FOX affiliate) I have to have TWO season passes to grab all the shows, or setup a Title Wishlist (which I have done for Stargate) unfortunately a Title Wishlist doesn't always work -- for instance, I'd like to get all of the Friends episodes, but a Friends Title Wishlist would get me loads of other crap. Oh well. It's still drastically better than a VCR.

Re:HD Tivo!

[dspyder]

Great! Now I can record 15 minutes of high definition glory on that whopping drive!

--D

720p Versus 1080i

[Naffer]

Not meaning too get too offtopic, but I noticed that the order of formats in the picture goes [480i] [480p] [720p] [1080i]. Is that supposed to mean that 1080i is of higher picture quality then 720p? I assume that the number means lines of resolution, so 1080i would be higher res. Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't a 720 progressive image give you twice the effective framerate? 60 full frames per second versus 60 half frames per second?

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[flyboy974]

720p gives you 60 frames per second. 1080 gives you 60 frames per second, but, interlaced (30 half frames, interlaces together to make 60 total frames). You watch The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King at the theater. You sit in awe. 24 Frames Per Second. Now, you think that the LotR is smoooooth. But you say that 1080i isn't? Your mind sees approximately 22-30 frames per second. This is why a 1080i is indistiguishable, frame rate wise, from 720p. Very very very very few people can see the difference.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[-noefordeg-]

"Your mind sees approximately 22-30 frames per second." - I hope you mean motion blured frames per second, since otherwise you can easily see the difference between 30fps and 60 fps and up to ~72fps.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[ender's_shadow]

again this untruth - people see much more than 30 fps. It's just that ~24 fps is sufficient to convey motion to the brain. You're just wrong about the diff b/t 1080and720 - the resolution is better (sharper), interlaced or not.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Osty]

Your mind sees approximately 22-30 frames per second. This is why a 1080i is indistiguishable, frame rate wise, from 720p. Very very very very few people can see the difference.

Bullshit. Modern science has not found the upper limit that the eye can distinguish. I found a nice link simply by searching Google, so you can do the research yourself about what information is out there.

Given various different tricks (motion blur, mostly), your eyes only really need 18fps to determine motion, but even at higher frame rates you'll still be able to detect flicker and jerkiness. Next time you watch Return of the King, look for any long horizontal pans (caveat: I haven't seen the movie yet, so I don't know if there are any good examples in the movie). If the pan is fast enough, you're going to see flicker and jerkiness. This is also why you need a much higher frame rate for video games, because proper motion blur is computationally expensive and current hardware still can't handle it and everything else while maintaining a smooth rate (the other issue in trying for the highest possible frame rate is that games measure averages, so a 30fps average means that the rate will drop below 30fps. A locked 30fps, like many consoles games do, guarantees the game will not drop below 30fps at the cost of visual quality). Look out of the corner of your eye at your computer screen. If you're using a CRT, you're going to be able to see flicker even if you're running a higher refresh rate (some people can't detect it past 85Hz or so, but most people can). Work in an office with all flourescent lighting, and see how long it takes you to get a headache. You may not physically see the flicker, but your eyes do and the headache is caused by strain because of it.

Between 480i and 480p, I can certainly tell a difference in refresh rate. Turn off progressive scan output on your DVD player, watch a scene, and turn it back on, or play with the progressive settings in the DVD player setup. If you can't tell a difference, you're a rare person, not the average. Just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean that other people can't either.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[nvrrobx]

You are correct, but only for viewing moving video. Still pictures or text, and you'll defintely see the difference. Now, I know a lot of people that can't tell the difference between a monitor at 60 hz vs a monitor at 100 hz. If you're one of those people, 1080i is just fine for you. I, for one, can very much tell the difference, and I'd rather avoid the eyestrain headaches that go along with interlacing. :)

So, in summary, if you plan on viewing still images, or reading text (browsing the web, anyone?) - buy a TV that does 720p.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Squid]

Actually 24fps isn't all that smooth. I can think of a few shots in ALL the Lord of the Rings movies - usually vertical pans or other rapid tracking shots - that looked very choppy. Not a problem on DVD, but in the theater, the whole damn screen seems to flash, as essentially the whole frame changes 24 times a second.

Fast-moving objects at 24fps don't always "move" fluidly across the cinema screen, all too often you get 24 flickery copies of the object, because your eyes are not quite tracking the motion, you're seeing the object blink out at one location and blink in at another. Now, in a rapid camera pan, especially a vertical one where you're trying to cover more "ground" with the narrow aspect of the frame, you get 24 flickery copies of the WHOLE FRAME stuttering up the screen. It looks unsteady or "blurry" to the eye, though every frame may be razor-sharp.

We may only "see" at 22-30fps, but we are affected by problems well beyond that, whether it be fluorescent lights about to conk out, or monitors that "only" refesh at 75hz. For motion to appear smooth and comfortable we'd really have to get to the point of having 120fps video.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Anonymous Coward]

So many bad assumptions.

First. Everyone needs to read up on the kell factor to understand the impact that interlace video has on human perception of resolution.

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/kell.htm

For those of you too lazy to read, it is generally accepted in the broadcast industry that interlace video (1080i, 480i) conveys about 70-75% of the total available vertical resolution (kell factor of .7). This means a 1080i image is about 810 lines of perceived vertical resolution.

This is IF the compression system in use is not filtering the overall frequency response to some even lower value.

All of the ATSC interlace modes run at 60 fields not 60 frames. (discounting drop frame modes) In interlace video there are only 30 frames of data which are spread out over 60 samples in time. Some people in the industry would argue that the kell factor for fast moving sports footage, especially panning footage such as car or bicycle races has a vertical resolution or kell factor of only .5. This means that the content of the video is moving so quickly that the next field of video samples do not line up at all with the previous ones and therefore add now new resolution content. For sports footage this means you are comparing 540 vertical lines (out of 1080i) to the REAL 720 samples at 60 Frame.

Sony spent a LOT of money testing human perception and found out that the human eye cannot tell the difference between 1334 horizontal samples of resolution and 1920 samples when the viewer is seated at normal theater viewing distances. Of course its this same logic that says people can't hear anything above 20Khz. YMMV. The upshot of this is that the highest quality sampling available on compressed HD equipment is around 1440 horizontal pixels. Panasonic would argue that they have 1920 samples but their compression is so high that the effective frequency response on moving video is not nearly that.

720P is far superior to 1080i for a number of reasons, all of which must be considered.

1. Most televisions are not capable of true 1920 resolution. In fact, most broadcast monitor engineers would argue that none of them are. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between being 1920 ready or capable and having the electronics to drive a true, stable, jitter free 1920 image.

720p solves this because it is a much easier resolution to drive on consumer displays and therefore there is less box induced artifacting (scaling, motion interpolation, etc).

This means that if YOUR televisions native resolution is less than 1920 it will have to format convert the video down to whatever your native resolution is. Chances are that your televisions native display technology is progressive scan (DLP, LCOS, LCD, etc) so it will also be frame rate converting at the same time. Going from an interlace format to a progressive format is not a simple task. Cheap televisions (or STBs) will do simple field integration or bob/weave as it is known in the consumer world ('vertical/temporal mesh' to the industry). Better televisions will try to do motion adaptive de-interlacing. This is any set driven by Faroujda, Sage, Genesis electronics (all owned by Genesis). I suppose that there will be some sets that will attempt motion compensated de-interlacing but consider that the cheapest motion compensated stand alone box out there is about $100K and ask yourself if you are really getting what you are paying for. I digress. The point is that it is much easier for your television to convert 720p to 1080i than the other way around, or even better for it to just accept the 720p signal and display it natively.

Toss in the fact that television stations are all broadcasting at different HD resolutions, your STB (set top box whether satellite or cable) has its own native processing capabilites (or necessities) and your television has its own limitations and you end up with some very ugly scenarios. The worst of which is a 720P->1080i->

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[harlows_monkeys]

Modern science has not found the upper limit that the eye can distinguish

And you are just talking about the human eye. What about animal eyes? No, I'm not some PETA nut...it just occurs to me that many people have pets that they are quite fond of and would not want to do things to cause discomfort for those pets.

So, I wonder what pets think of our modern video and audio systems? Are those DVDs that to us have spectacular pictures and CD-quality surround sound appear to dogs as horrible flickering lightshows accompanied by intolerably distorted sound full of digital artifacts?

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[The Wicked Priest]

I don't think it's supposed to mean anything more than that 1080 is a bigger number than 720. Among videophiles, there's really no consensus on whether 720p (as used by ABC) or 1080i (CBS, NBC) looks better.

I'd guess that button is to control the output resolution. (Some HDTV sets have native support for only 720p or 1080i.) Anyway, I sure don't see the "Temp" indicator referred to in the submitter's comments.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Halo-]

There is one other important element in how "fast" the human eye sees: Where you are looking. The receptors in the certer of the eye respond much more slowly than the receptors on the edges; however, the center of the eye has much greater resolution. The reason for this is that you need detail for subjects you are actually looking at, and you need speed in your peripheral vision to see things sneaking up or being throw at you.

I've played with this effect when configuring monitors before. Set the vertical refresh to something painfully slow, then try looking at it out of the corner of your eye. Ouch...

So, I would suspect that on really large screens (ie movie theaters) the refresh rate is more critical than on smaller screens.

Me? I own a plain old low-def 24" TV, so this is all moot for me. :)

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Single GNU Theory]

So, I wonder what pets think of our modern video and audio systems?

Pets probably think modern video and audio systems don't smell very interesting.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[arazor]

>So, I wonder what pets think of our modern video and audio systems? Are those DVDs that to us have spectacular pictures and CD-quality

>surround sound appear to dogs as horrible flickering lightshows accompanied by intolerably distorted sound full of digital artifacts?

I don't know about TV frame rates. But I have had several cats. They didnt mind the loud speakers. For some reason they liked to sleep on the speakers. They wouldnt move off the speakers til I cranked it up so loud that the speakers were visibly vibrating. Sometimes I think they cant hear noise from speakers but everyonce in a while an odd noise from built in tv speakers and they turned around to find the source of noise.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[xeaxes]

There was a report on the news about cats and tv. They were distinguishing why some cats watch and some cats do not watch.

The answer? The cats that watch TV have slower brains then the cats that do not watch TV. They cannot distinguish that TV is not real.

I'm guessing the same is true for dogs. Especially in regards to sound. It's interesting that some dogs can distinguish that hearing a doorbell or dog bark on TV is fake and some dogs cannot. So, higher quality audio and video probably means that in the end, more pets will watch and listen.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Mike Bridge]

at least use the right terms, 1080i gives you 60 fields per second, which calculates to 30 frames a second. anyone remember non-interlaced monitors? both formats have better detail/resolution than 'standard' 480i and 'good' 480p, so whichever one your new TV supports, more power to you! (just make sure that it does those resolutions natively, and it doesn't downconvert/upconvert via line-doublers and similar, because that will defeat the purpose of having this really nice TV to watch really nice signal input, if its getting dorked with by a video preprocessor that will add artifacts, noise, etc into it)

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[pyite69]

This is a religious argument for HDTV people. I
personally think that the progressive scan 720p
mode is better for just about everything,
especially sports and computer animation (the
Monsters Inc teaser they used to show on ABC
almost brought tears to my eyes it was so
beautiful... I hope they hurry up and make fully
re-rendered 720p Pixar movies ASAFP).

However, 1080i still looks pretty damn good most
of the time!

Compression artifacts are a BIG problem with
both formats though... I can only imagine how
badly the satellite companies will butcher it...
they really crank up the compression levels.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[aonaran]

Movie directors have to be very careful about the shots they take due to the 24fps limitation.
If you ever saw "Twister" in the theatre you would have noticed that the kitchen scene where they rapidly turn the camera from pointing at one person to another at different places in the room was very hard on the eyes because the frame rate was quite noticeable. However, the special effects looked ok because they took the time to make them look real, whereas the kitchen was real.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[pyite69]

Wake up. 24 frames a second is ARCHAIC. It is
easy to tell the difference. It is still possible
to have beautiful pictures on the screen, but
interlaced pictures and progressive scan both
can look significantly better. TV can't touch
the incredibly high resolution of films though!

When you see a real 60 frame progressive scan
picture (with limited compression artifacts) it is
amazing. ABC/Disney has only started to explore
what is possible, IMO. The old test loops they
used to play look ten times better than any of
the "high definition" content they show these
days.

Mark

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[503]

Of course, you could make the whole argument moot by jumping straight to 1080p. As far as I know, the only screen with this capability is Sumsung's newly announced 57" LCD. And you just know this isn't going to be cheap.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[pyite69]

> 720p solves this because it is a much easier
> resolution to drive on consumer displays and
> therefore there is less box induced artifacting
> (scaling, motion interpolation, etc).

From what I understand, the reason why few
consumer displays supported 720p at first is
because it is less easy to support. It apparently
uses more "video bandwidth". Here is a short
article about it:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/bandwid.htm

With fixed resolution displays like DLP, LCD, etc,
the opposite will be true, but the TV networks
are all stuck. I wonder if they could broadcast
in either mode depending on the content... I
assume that's what they will do _eventually_.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[harryk]

Wow!

All I can say is wow!

That post has got to be one of the most informative posts I've ever read on Slashdot, I have nothing to add, or to rant about.

I am not quite in the market for a newer TV (although we just purchased a flat screen STB). HD is still too expensive for me, and I'm waiting a bit. But the facts that you offered about the 720P vs 1080i I had a feeling that the 720 res was better.

I (for one) truly appreciate this post.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[monkeydo]

Actually ~15 frames is enough for most people.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[ncc74656]

So, I wonder what pets think of our modern video and audio systems?

With the big-screen TV my parents bought a few months ago, one of their dogs starts growling/barking/howling when she sees another dog on-screen. How's that for an answer?

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[NanoGator]

"If the pan is fast enough, you're going to see flicker and jerkiness."

When I was a kid, I saw an animated movie a little too close to the screen. As some of you already know, when there is panning in an animated movie, there is no motion blur. The strobing was distracting. There were places I was seeing a double image.

I think projectors have improved since then. I read somewhere that they actually show a film at 48fps, but each frame is shown twice. If that's true, I can see why I haven't noticed it in recent years.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[NanoGator]

"The receptors in the certer of the eye respond much more slowly than the receptors on the edges;"

It's kind of funny how the edges of your eyes work. I went to a play with a friend of mine, we had center seats. On either side of the stage was a dim EXIT sign. Whenever I looked straight at the stage, I could see the EXIT sign at the edge of my vision, but if I looked right at it, it was too dim to see it. I remember my friend next to me was having the same problem, we'd both turn our head and look at the exit sign.

More recently, I noticed something kind of interesting. My car has an alarm in it. There is a blue LED next to the steering wheel that flashes when the alarm is on. It's bright enough that the seat gets illuminated by this LED. I was out in my front yard one night, and every time I looked away from the car, I saw a flash. But if I looked right at it, I couldn't see anything. I sat there for a moment and shifted my eyes left and right. When my car was in the edge of my vision, I could plainly see the light flash. But if I looked right at it, I couldn't see the light flashing against the seat at all. The difference was startling, it was almost like somebody was only making the light flash when I wasn't looking right at it.

Part of me wonders if this 'feature' of our eyes is responsible for ghost sightings.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[davegust]

The problem with your position on 1080i is that many of your 720p "advantages" are due to the limits of today's technology.

- Today's sets can't show full 1920
- Today's cameras can't shoot full 1920
- Interlaced to progressive conversion is expensive
- Digitizing progressive is easier

While these statements are true today, in 5 years these problems will be be solved. They are technology limits.

Approximating the recovery of interlaced fields is simply a technology problem, not a mathematical limit. We throw away these fields as a compression technique, to compliment the other techniques used in MPEG2. Recovering an approximation should be as accepted and accurate as the color-depth recovery that we employ with JPEG and MPEG decompression filtering.

What won't change is that at the same bit-rate, the higher resolution interlaced fields have the potential to look sharper than the lower resolution progressive frames.

Good motion compensated de-interlacing can make interlaced fields look smooth, and these systems will be cheap enough to include in every set in 5 to 10 years. As far as I know, no such solution exists to enhance the lack of resolution. (Yes, I know sharpness filters exists, but the results are poor, and they are not typically sought as a solution to video problems. Maybe these will get better too, but I doubt it.)

I'm sure most people would agree that if we had been stuck with something like 320p vs. 480i for NTSC, that we would have been living with poorer quality images for the last two decades, once image processing had reached the limits of the format.

Fortunately, ATSC wisely accomodates multiple formats.

Dave

P.S. Most of today's sets are not natively progressive scan, but are still built with tubes. I agree this is rapidly changing, but tubes still have the picture quality edge. I'm betting on nano-tube cathode displays as the best replacement for direct-view tubes.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Razor Blades are Not]

No one will ever need more than 15 frames per second or 640KB of RAM.

- Bill Gates

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[ErikZ]

DVDs had compression artifact problems in the early days also. That was taken care of. I have faith that this won't be a problem in HDTV in next few years.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[stuartkahler]

I don't know what most people think, but the 24 fps in theaters sucks. Anytime a large patch of white shows up on the screen, I can plainly see the flicker, even while looking straight at it (persistence usually diminishes the effect of flicker near the center of your vision).

1080i is on par with 720p for recorded video (and cheaper to produce), but if you have any plans to attach a computer to that new high def widescreen (you are a /. reader, after all), you will want to go with the one that does 720p. Most text is just 1 pixel wide, and that becomes excruciating to read when interlaced.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[spike hay]

If 1080 produced 30 full frames per second, that would be all fine and dandy, but you don't seem to realize that it's not full frames.

NTSC interlacing does 60 fields per second, and 29.97 FPS. Thus it takes two passes to do 30 full frames per second. So it is a true 30 FPS. I don't notice interlacing too much, except if I am standing really close to the TV and I am looking at the edges of objects, which do appear jagged and flickery due to the interlacing.

I saw a 1080i 24" or so Samsung CRT at Best Buy a few weeks ago for $399. That was a damn good deal, just a little more money than a comparable high quality NTSC tv. I will personally wait, however, until 1080p sets, true HDTV, become available cheaply.

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[heneon]

Part of me wonders if this 'feature' of our eyes is responsible for ghost sightings.

It's a bug! No, really, it's a feature :P
I don't remmber exactly what causes it so please correct me...

There are cone cells in the middle of the retina that are help seeing shapes and colors of the objects you are looking at. Around the outside of the retina, there are rod cells that are sensitive to light and motion, so you sense small chages in light in the corner of your eyes. For example if you look at stars in night sky, you can find them "better" by looking past them.

Or something like that. IANAES (eye scientist)

Re:720p Versus 1080i

[Kagato]

One thing to keep in mind is perception VS screen size. If you have a screen less than 60" I agress totally, it's not uncommon to have 100+" screens. I dunn'o. I've seen DLP at my local theater, holy crap did it look horible. I mean, bad, really, really bad. Sure, it's a 50 foot wide screen showing 720P, but at some point you'll see it on the small screens.

no so cool

[frovingslosh]

Plus check out this Samsung DLP TV! Stealth bomber cool!"

Wasn't one of the cool promises of a flat plasma TV that we could hang them on the wall with little wasted space? Not have to ballance them on top of a space wasting cousing of R2-D2? Who in the world wants this TV with it's queer makeover and awkward space wasting base?

Re:no so cool

[iainl]

The Samsung isn't a flat plasma TV though; its a DLP rear projection that, since the single DLP unit is much smaller than the multiple bulbs of a traditional CRT rear-pro, they've hollowed out the stand to the bare minimum for maximum cool looks.

If you want flat plasma, then get flat plasma. I wouldn't hang one on my wall though, as not only do I need the stand space underneath it to house DVD, Laserdisc, Amplifier, Satellite decoder, VHS recorder, Minidisc player and multiple consoles, but the sheer weight of a 43" plasma screen means you need blooming great bolts in it to ensure it doesn't fall off.

Re:no so cool

[quasipunk guy]

Maybe because this isn't a Plasma TV, this is a DLP (as in projection) TV.

So, you're wrong.

Re:no so cool

[tgd]

Um, thats not a plasma TV.

Re:no so cool

[Zathrus]

Wasn't one of the cool promises of a flat plasma TV that we could hang them on the wall with little wasted space?

Sure, and you can still do that. You'll only pay roughly twice as much for a HD plasma screen as you will for a HD DLP. DLP may not be perfect, but I do think it's the best digital display technology out there right now. It's light (our 46" is only 80 lbs (36 kg); our 32" CRT TV is far heavier), they're not flat but they are narrow (ours is only 16" deep), they have no burn-in issues (plasma does), pretty good black levels (best of the digital bunch), great resolution (1280x720 currently), high contrast and brightness (you don't NEED to watch in a pitch black room), and good connectivity (DVI and VGA input!).

Yeah, it's still much more expensive than a RPTV CRT HD set, but I think it's worth it. And, as I mentioned, it's considerably cheaper than plasma.

As for the stand -- it's separate. Don't buy it if you don't like it. Mine is in a huge honking entertainment center, many people buy various stands for them -- with the weight you don't need to worry about whether or not the stand can hold the TV. And, after all, you need somewhere to put the receiver, DVD player, TiVo, etc.

Re:no so cool

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I'm curious, is plasma considered a digital display? While it is an array of fixed pixels, are the individual cells driven by analog or digital principles?

One thing to keep in mind is that current home DLP isn't for everyone. Some people get severe headaches because of the rainbowing inherent in single chip DLP. It is allieviated somewhat by 6x equivalent color wheels but many of those affected by 2x still have problems with 6x.

Re:no so cool

[stuartkahler]

DLP != Plasma. It is a rear projection system. Unlike the 3X CRT based systems that sell for $1500+, it produces a much better picture, doesn't suffer from burn-in, always upconverts to the highest resolution, and is much smaller & lighter. They cost about 3 times the price of a rear projection CRT system, but 1/3 that of a Plasma TV. The downside is that they are still about 15-20 inches deep, and the projector bulb ($200-400) needs to be replaced every 4000 hours or so.

You can get DLP TVs that don't have the base like the one pictured. They're just a bit deeper, and you still have to set them on a table or some sort. They're shaped like very short neck widescreen CRTs. Near me, Ultimate Electronics, Best Buy and Sears (?!?) carry DLP TVs.

Some of these are quite useful

[SexyKellyOsbourne]

The Akosa PlugLan(TM) Network Jack -- imagine how much time, effort, and money stringing up CAT5 network cables could be saved if we simply just used these instead to use our existing electrical wires to transmit data.

Motorola IMfree Personal Instant Messenger -- kick the middle school girls off of the computers, and give them these little keypads. $1500 machines being hogged for using AIM is ridiculous. Plus it's Linux-based.

"Air Flo" Hand Cooling Controllers -- When playing Xbox for hours on end, your controllers will become slicker than a greased yoda, but these have air conditioning built in to prevent that. Now, if they could do this for mice, it would be great.

Cool stuff. I look forward to it.

Re:Some of these are quite useful

[Inda]

There was a picture of a mouse

Re:Some of these are quite useful

[dfn_deux]

here here! It'd be nice if instead of using new technology to implement outdated solutions there was more of a push to use technology to create innovation.

Re:Some of these are quite useful

[dfn_deux]

Well if you are only using computers for accessing the internet I guess any old solution will do, but I'd hardly call this a "networking solution" for a real lan nor a reasonable alternative to CAT5, next generation wireless technology, or sneaker net for that matter.

Re:Some of these are quite useful

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I've seen an air flow mouse, with three flow options, high, low and off. I've never had the problem but I imagine some do.

Why include a link to a picture?

[flyboy974]

I have a Sony DirecTivo unit that I've loved for many a years now. I love it more now that I am a beta user and got dual tuners before most of the public. (About two years of Beta's now)

But, what is so special about the new Hughes DirecTivo? I checked the CES website and the link, and there is nothing about specs. Notta new, other than HDTV. Ooo.. A piture that the Sony Tivo still kicks ass over. I havn't looked into DirecTV's specs about their broadcast of HDTV, but, I'm guessing it's highly compressed, and if you were to freeze frame, you'll see the aweful MPEG compression more than the picture itself. How much more bandwidth can you get out of older comm. satelitte? HDTV has about 4x the number of pixels over normal broadcast. You can't support both without giving up something.

About three months ago I added another 80GB drive to my Tivo. If it wasn't for the mother in law, I would still have 3 months worth of programming! (Either that, or it's the NHL Season package recording the Sharks Games...) Strangely, I've ran out of space due to the recent influx of some MTV over TiVo exlusive to DirecTV crap programming/previews.

Oh well. I avoid live TV like the plague. I guess it's time to rebless my hda drive with something bigger.

Re:Why include a link to a picture?

[flyboy974]

Could we get -2 for offtopic and being a troll? ;-)

As for the nerd comment. Find an average consumer who has TiVo. I have three kids. Rule #1 in our house, "Thou shal now watch Live TV". they don't get commericals, they don't get the violence. It allows me as a parent to censor what I want them to watch.

Nerd or not, raising kids is a world belief. I'm sad to hear that, as a nerd, my kids will be less prone to "smack up them bitches".

But, then again, us "nerds" rule Slashdot. Trolls like.. well.. I'll wait for my moderator points.. :-)

Re: Why include a link to a picture?

[golemite]

The new HD DirecTivo will have dual OTA tuners and dual Satellite tuners, meaning you can be recording up to 3 HD/SD programs while watching another one live. The HD is 250GB and will support all HD as well as SD output formats. The unit has recently entered Beta testing and hopefully will appear on store shelves soon. Check AVSForum for more info.

DirecTV HDTV actually delivers quite a good image. Flipping between the same game on Sunday Ticket HD on DTV and CBS-HD OTA reveals some artifacts being introduced occassionally from further compression but still delivers a good image that will only get better as more satellites get in the sky. Other channels such as ESPN-HD (when they are actually showing HD) and Discovery HD look excellent compared to full bitrate OTA channels.

Re: Why include a link to a picture?

[Scyber]

I thought I read that you could only use 2 of the tuners at once. At least I remember seeing that on the tivo community board.

Re:Why include a link to a picture?

[Zathrus]

About two years of Beta's now

And if you're currently participating in a beta then you're breaking your NDA. For some reason, I doubt you're participating in the current beta though -- you'd have a clue then.

But, what is so special about the new Hughes DirecTivo?[...]other than HDTV. Ooo.. A piture that the Sony Tivo still kicks ass over.

First off, the make of the TiVo has absolutely zero impact on the PQ. They're all the same design and components.

That said, the big thing is HD. Your Sony can't do HD. Nor can any other TiVo on the market. This one can. And it'll beat the pants off of your Sony when it comes to PQ because of it. Oh, and it has component and DVI output, which your Sony doesn't. It'll even look better with SD material.

I havn't looked into DirecTV's specs about their broadcast of HDTV, but, I'm guessing it's highly compressed

You're right. You haven't looked into it. DirecTV is now broadcasting all of its HD channels at full bitrate. They were previously doing some bit combing to reduce the bitrate to ~12 Mbps, but they have apparantly stopped that and now HD channels are broadcast at up to 21 Mbps.

How much more bandwidth can you get out of older comm. satelitte? HDTV has about 4x the number of pixels over normal broadcast. You can't support both without giving up something.

The bandwidth is static. They could allocate all of the bandwidth on a transponder to HD -- they'd just carry fewer channels on that transponder. The more HD channels they put on a bird the fewer SD channels they can broadcast (which basically affects how many locals they can broadcast; all the major channels are on the 101 bird anyway. HD is on the 110 and 119 birds). Oh, and they have a new bird going active in January. It'll have enough bandwidth to transmit every single channel they carry in HD. Including the locals. All of the m. It's unknown what they're going to use the new bird for yet, except that it will be HD related.

Oh, other new things about the HD DirecTiVo? Four tuners. Two HD DirecTV and two ATSC. You'll only be able to record from two at a time, but you won't have to worry about whether the signal is coming in OTA or DBS.

Re:Why include a link to a picture?

[RealRav]

DirecTv's HD is not over compressed. They put up a satellite that is dedicated to HD. It requires a third LNB, but the picture is so great even the skeptical will be amazed.

Rav

Dreams are better as dreams than reality.

Re:Why include a link to a picture?

[joshamania]

Obviously you haven't been in a Best Buy or Circuit City (or whatever you have where you live) in quite some time. Stroll in to Best Buy now and you'll see more big-screen TV's than regular TV's. All of them will be hooked to an HD feed, generally DirecTV's HD feed, because it is the easiest to get.

So, apparently do you not know about DirecTV's HD quality, you don't seem to understand the quality of HD in the first place. There is absolutely no way on Earth that your regular PAL/NTSC television has a picture quality anywhere near that of HD.

Also, DirecTV HD takes signal from three separate satellites. Not only is the capability of the newer satellites better, but now there are more of them and you can get channels from all three.

On top of that, there have been multiple two-tuner options available for quite some time. UltimateTV (lord rest its soul) was two tuner from the get-go, and I've now been enjoying it for over two years. DirecTivo has been available with two-tuners for at least a year now.

The only reason I haven't switched is that I'm waiting for HD Tivo...HD is nice, but I'll never live without a PVR again...

Re:Why include a link to a picture?

[Justice-of-the-Peace]

If you're really curious:
NTSC (Std. Def. 525I) = 720 x 480 = 345,600 pixels.
ATSC 1080I = 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
2,073,600 / 345,600 = 6

So per frame, 1080I has 6x as many pixels as NTSC. However, there is another quality boost:
NTSC: 30 fps (frames per second)
ATSC 1080I: 60 fps (frames per second)

So, ATSC 1080I provides 12x as many pixels/second as NTSC.

As for the new DirecTV bird, the next one they plan to launch is DirecTV 7S, which is a spotbeam satellite (indicated by the S designator at the end).

For those not familiar, a spotbeam has a smaller footprint (or coverage area) than the full satellite, which the DirecTV and Dish Network are using to provide specific local packages to specific areas. So, a local package for, say Baltimore, goes to Baltimore and not everywhere in the U.S. This spotbeam tech also allows them to re-use a transponder number, as long as the spotbeam coverage areas for that transponder number are mutually exclusive. So a spotbeam of transponder #5 could beam Baltimore locals to Baltimore, and another spotbeam of transponder #5 could beam Seattle locals to Seattle.

DirecTV 7S will help DirecTV to add more locals - at least another 30 by the end of 2004 (as mandated by the FCC as a stipulation of News Corp. buying them). That's its primary purpose.

As for everything in HD, wouldn't worry about that yet - there are only a few channels being broadcast in true HD. More to come, but it's slow in happening. As far as locals in HD everywhere? Again, not yet - the big push is to get as many markets up as possible to compete locally with cable, and that will take enough bandwidth right there.

Next, please don't mistake DirecTV having 3 orbital locations for having access to 3 full orbital locations. Each satellite location is subdivided into 32 transponders (frequency range assignments), of which they need a satellite to transmit them and license from the FCC to broadcast using those transponders. They have all 32 licenses at their main location, 101. However, they have 11 transponders at 119, and only 3 transponders at 110. Still impressive, but not as great as first thought perhaps.

Last but not least: just because you see it in CES Innovations does not mean it's coming out anytime soon. HD-DVR is a wonderful thought, and a feasible technology - definitely something about which to get excited. But wait for the product to come out first. And don't be surprised if the first HD-DVR to market isn't a DirecTiVo - Dish Network debuted their 921 receiver in last year's CES - a dual-tuner HD-DVR that can also record OTA broadcasts (over-the-air, a.k.a. received via off-air antenna).

Sorry for the extremely long post - hope it provides more insight into the topic.

Re: Why include a link to a picture?

[sdo1]

The new HD DirecTivo will have dual OTA tuners and dual Satellite tuners, meaning you can be recording up to 3 HD/SD programs while watching another one live.

Incorrect. You can use any two tuners at once while watching a third program that is already recorded.

I know know if it has any picture-in-picture capability, so I don't think you'll be able watch two things at once, but regardless, you'll be able to record two things at once and watch another. Pretty impressive actually that it'll be able to handle three simultaneous full-bandwidth HD signals.

There's a great list of features of this unit at this thread at avsforum.com.

Personally, I'll have one of these on pre-order the moment it becomes available. I've already been completely spoiled by TiVo and in the last few months I've been spoiled by high-definition TV. To marry the two will be awesome.

-S

Re:Why include a link to a picture?

[Zathrus]

Good information... I didn't realize that the sat being put up in January was a spot beam. It does, however, have vastly more capacity than the existing sats and, as I understand it, could have enough capacity to beam all existing locals-in-locals via HD if DirecTV wanted. I doubt they will do so of course, but they have stated that some of its capacity will be used for HDTV. Shrug.

just because you see it in CES Innovations does not mean it's coming out anytime soon

Of course not. The 2003 winner was the Dish 921, which has just finally become available. That said, all indications are that the HD DirecTiVo will indeed be out in Q1, with leaks from the beta, press releases from DirecTV and TiVo (mostly 10Q statements), and semi-public viewings of the unit all coinciding. It may be late Q1, but hope springs eternal. And, of course, I'm still suspecting sometime in Q2 realistically.

BTW, the Dish 921 only has one OTA tuner, while the HD TiVo has two. That, along with the vastly superior TiVo software, is a good reason to pass on the Dish offering.

Oh... and the first HD DVR isn't a TiVo. It's a Zenith. Very limited recording capability, even more limited software, but they were the first ones out. For $1200 or so. OTA only.

Re:TYAN's K84 s-4880 - when and how much?

[flyboy974]

Do you have CES link or are you just spouting wanna be techno garb?

Do you REALLY need the RAID support for your PC? My TiVo is IDE and lets me store months of programs.

If you have 2GB of inexpensive ram (about $200 these days?) You'll just load everything into RAM and never hit the HD.

Of course, if you are doing digital video, then we can start a new Slashdot thread. :-)

You'll be hearing more about the Lightglove

[Bi()hazard]

There are some pretty cool products up there. But one really stands out as having revolutionary potential-the lightglove. This is clearly going to be the input device of choice in the future.

Just think of the applications for a wireless device that's perfectly ergonomic, customizable, and works with all major OS'es and a huge variety of electronic devices. Check out the website faq here-this thing is a universal remote control for your tv, game console, garage door, even microwave. It even works underwater! Ideal for scuba divers, and you don't have to take it off in the shower, you can even use it to control the water temperature! I'm sure we've all heard about how people have "creative" uses for those detachable shower heads that can spray directly onto any part of your body, imagine how much fun you could have with a robotically controlled showerhead with hand signals used as inputs to vary speed, direction, and temperature. mmmm...why not use this thing to control more traditional sex toys too? Perfect for those long distance relationships.

Light is sterile; nobody can spread germs by using the same computer, so this also has potential in medical applications. This will be ubiquitous in hospitals. It's also a perfect robotics control device. Everyone from surgeons to manufacturers to the military will be using this thing to work robot hands. And of course, no gamer can go without-the precision control, ergonomics, and more input (3d motion and 15 buttons beats any mouse) are ideal. You can use two of these to simulate a keyboard, which is good news for laptops-the keyboard is the fattest, space-wastingest part. Lightgloves will come with every tablet PC. They also mention they've been testing virtual reality applictaions-"Mobile computing with head mounted display and mini CPU" as a VR platform is in beta. And the technology to use hand signals as input will add whole new meanings to giving the finger :P

Did I mention it comes in all kinds of cute colors? From the website: "Marvelous choices of light color (or invisible infra-red light) will be available in fashionable wrist bands and cases to enhance any style preference. It's not just for us geeks." Ooh I want..any of you guys want to buy one for me? ;)

Once the technology is perfected we'll all be using them. They already have 52 hour capacity rechargeable lithium batteries, wireless i/o following irDa, 802.15.4, 802.11g, and two-way radio standards, as well as adaptability for all standard remote-controlled home appliances. Plus, they're testing a satellite link configuration using similar transmitter technology as that in satellite phones, so you'll be able to use this thing from anywhere on the planet! Of course, it's expensive, but the site claims they hope to have it below $300 by mid 2005... I'm wetting my pants in anticipation!

Re:You'll be hearing more about the Lightglove

[attaboy]

Are you sure you don't own stock in the company? Wow.. you're really impressed.

Re:You'll be hearing more about the Lightglove

[Gutzalpus]

Imagine if you could control video games with just your hand movements, without having to hold a controller? The video game industry would never be the same again.

Re:You'll be hearing more about the Lightglove

[sean.peters]

this thing is a universal remote control for your tv, game console, garage door, even microwave. It even works underwater! Ideal for scuba divers

Yeah, for all those times I need to open my garage door or turn on my microwave while I'm scuba diving. Gotta get some of this... not.

Sean

Re:You'll be hearing more about the Lightglove

[dspyder]

Actually, check the website... looks like they're accepting bids/offers for companies to actually build the thing.

While cool looking, I'm not expecting to see a consumer version in stores anytime soon!

--D

p.s. Vaporware (even if it has a demonstration model) shouldn't be eligible for these types of awards. Maybe a design and engineering award, but not CONSUMER electronics.

That`s what I was wondering-

[filtersweep]

Pardon the redundancy, but I think this addresses the key issue here. OK- I don`t have a `proper` Tivo (actually, that Hughes unit looks like the same type of system...), but I have a HD recorder embedded into my digital cable box (a PERFECT convergence of technology if you ask me- the integration of the cable `guide`with the absolute ease in programming and use), but there are obvious artifacts and compression going on- especially in low light scenes. I`m just wondering what the video snobs will think of all this. I`m sure there is a compromise somewhere. Just because the box is `compatible` with HDTV doesn`t make it HD. It is called `marketing.`

Ah, Tivo, the most hackable of all VCR substitutes

[Channard]

So hopefully someone will be able to modify TIVO in such a way it ignores the 'do not record' flag on HD programmes.

Re:TYAN's K84 s-4880 - when and how much?

[Anonymous Coward]

1) what on earth could you use such a monster for? you do know that adding cpus doesn't get you any more fps in games, don't you?

These devices are used for measuring penis size. Ask any doctor or look at the relevant HMO forms-they want answers in MHz. There's even a few classified ads posted by women that specify "At least 6 GHz of equipment preferred."

2) if you have so much money, why don't you settle for a normal computer and buy something adult instead: buy a car, clothes or redecorate your house. those will help you getting laid, too. in short, grow up.

We've already covered getting laid. Clothes are for losers and poseurs, the new fashion is no fashion! And buying a 5th car would require expanding the garage, which would unbalance the house-just plain ugly.

Taz I

[Jesus IS the Devil]

The Taz I looks to be a better buy at $379 (60GBs) than the Archos AV380 (80GBs), which is selling for $899!

Taz I:
http://www.tightsystems.com/gift.htm

Archose AV380:
http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500570. html

The only noticeable difference I see is that the Archose supports xVid while the Taz doesn't. However they both support Divx.

I'm almost sold... Just wish the product was already available today.

Re:Taz I

[1ini]

At 6.3" x 4.2" x 1.5" i wouldn't call the Taz I portable. Archos reports 4.4" x 3.2" x 1.2", which is much better IMHO. I still want an av340.

Wrong price (probably!) and not shipping!

[magicianuk]

The gift certificate linked to says
"So . . . here's what we've come up with for you. For $379, you get the following:

1. A very nice gift certificate worth $425 towards the purchase of a TAZ I. (We have not announced a suggested retail price for TAZ I yet.)"

And on another page "TAZ I will be available in limited quantities in early 2004".

So at the moment you can pay 379 dollars towards a product that isn't shipping yet and hasn't got a price announced yet.

But if you go through the Tight Talk discussion they are suggesting more than 650 dollars, see http://www.tightsystems.com/bb/showthread.php?s=dd 71268a60568efdaa275d86f1e86c46&threadid=347 for example.

Re:Wrong price (probably!) and not shipping!

[Jesus IS the Devil]

Thanks for clarifying that. Those marketing people sure have a way of misleading people like me who didn't read all of the fine print. But I wasn't thinking about getting it yet that's why I hadn't read it carefully. But good thing you pointed that out.

The obvious questions...

[ChangeOnInstall]

Will an HDTV DirecTivo function exactly as my current original-generation Tivo in terms of letting me watch any show I recorded, i.e., are these affected by the broadcast flag stuff? Will it provide component video outputs and an optical audio output such I can watch those programs on the HDTV I bought three years ago?

If the answer is yes, I'll certainly buy one.

Re:The obvious questions...

[LEPP]

I would be shocked if it didn't have all those goodies. Maybe with the exception of the broadcast flag stuff. I can't think that it would be very difficult to create a filter that sits inline that switches the "record" bit in question. As for the component video ouput and the optical audio output, it would make no sense to not have either of these. They already have the optical audio out and HD needs either component out or dvi out (I think this is true but no sure). I am going to buy one shortly after they are released.

Re:The obvious questions...

[Zathrus]

i.e., are these affected by the broadcast flag stuff?

Since it has ATSC tuners it should be affected by the broadcast flag. I don't know what the effect would be. The flag is only supposed to be used for PPV and special events anyway. Any broadcaster found absuing the flag is going to get raked over the coals by the public. That said, you're not going to find anything that doesn't obey the broadcast flag -- it's not like you can import a tuner made for some area that doesn't use the flag. The North American area is the only one utilizing ATSC.

Will it provide component video outputs and an optical audio output such I can watch those programs on the HDTV I bought three years ago?

Yes. The HD DirecTiVos will have the current outputs (composite, svideo, digital audio) as well as component and HDMI (a superset of DVI, so DVI connectors will work).

Re:"Stealth Bomber Cool"?

[LEPP]

I would say, without a doubt, that the technology of the Stealth Bomber is cool.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[larryj]

Not that overheating doesn't happen, but it's hardly a "dirty little secret about all TiVos". I've had 4 Tivos (2 currently) and have upgraded around 10. None of them have encountered any overheating problems.

Again, it's certainly possible and it does happen sometimes, but it's not like every TiVo is a ticking timebomb waiting to overheat and fail.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[Anonymous Coward]

The article says that there is a Temp LCD but in the picture I don't see one.

Re:"Stealth Bomber Cool"?

[iainl]

Its black. Spinal Tap levels of black, in fact.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[RichMeatyTaste]

Dirty little secret eh? My Hughes dual tuner recording 2 shows and playing back another would like to talk to you. Stop spreading FUD. While overheats do happen, they are rare. I've had a series 1 I bought 3 months after initial launch, and a Hughes dual tuner, and they both have performed perfectly.

Completely OT.

[juuri]

One of the reasons the dreamcast was able to hold its own in games against the PS2 was due to it being able to do motion blur in the chipset. This was used in a lot of games to great effect. Unfortunately it seems everyone else decided not to implement this so we are left with cold hard static images in things like driving and sports games.

Re:Why include a link to a picture? -- WRONG!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

"...and got dual tuners before most of the public"
Dual tuners have been available for gen1 and gen2 DTiVos for a LONG time. I think it was v 2.5.2 of the software that added them. Any DTiVo bought in the last 1.5+ years came out of the box with this feature.

"I havn't looked into DirecTV's specs about their broadcast of HDTV, but..."
Then don't comment. There are plenty of people who are very happy with the DTV HDTV broadcast.

"I've ran out of space due to the recent influx of some MTV over TiVo exlusive to DirecTV crap programming/previews."
There is reserved space on your HD. The paid content (yellow star items) does not use any of your available space and will not EVER delete any previously recorded programs.

Bottom line, this is a well disguised troll. Anyone who is savvy enough to install new HDs in their TiVo would know that this guy's full of shit.

DLP is a superior technology anyway.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only advantage to having plasma is that the sets are thin.
It's certainly not a good idea to get plasma for its picture quality, because DLP beats it hands down (and the latest rear projection LCD screens do as well).

In a nutshell, plasma screens are heavy, fragile, run hot, easily suffer from burn-in, suck a lot of power, and diminish noticeably in brightness within a couple years of use.

Plasma's time has come and gone... and it never did get cheap.
I think even the DLP and LCD sets will lose out to the LCoS (liquid crystal on silicon) screens coming out later this year.

Re:DLP is a superior technology anyway.

[Moofie]

Something that's out now and has a proven track record will always be eclipsed by something that's coming out Real Soon Now.

I think you're right in the long run, but the decision horizon for LCOS is longer than people are thinking. I think.

There certainly won't be direct-view big LCoS sets in that timeframe, so we're still talking about a replacement for DLP and LCD projectors/rear projection sets. It's still going to be really cool, though. Someday.

convergence device

[*weasel]

for the love of baby jebus, could someone please make a pda/phone/mp3 player/digital camera with a compactflash slot?

i dig all these devices. i don't dig carrying them -all- around. i also enjoy the no-DRM and healthy competitive market in CF memory cards, as opposed to SD/MemoryStick.

I realize it'd be fairly bulky - larger than any one of those devices, but judging from the size of the individual items all rolled together, i'd expect it could be about the size of the Dell Axim, and maybe 1.5 times as thick.

cuz the philips 2mp keychain digital camera is supersmall, as is the iRiver. and phone/pda's aren't any bigger than the axim - so i don't think i'm being unreasonable. and some decent battery life would be nice too. like ~8 hrs mp3/pda gaming time. and naturally more if all i'm doing is light calendaring and digital standby/talk.

anyway, that's what i want for next year santa... get them elves working on it.

Re:convergence device

[ErikZ]

Everything is available except for the SD memory slot. It took me 1 minute of googling to find my first PDA/phone/Mp3 player.

Stop being so picky.

Re:DirecTiVos are overrated.

[smothra]

Not that Tivo doesn't have it's drawbacks, but it always cracks me up when someone complains about the feature set and the hacks required to get more storage or a network connection and then proceeds to gush about their homebrew system. I mean, what's the difference between hacking the Tivo and building a MythTV?

HD Tivo

[henryhbk]

Now for those of us with digital cable, a regular HD Tivo would be excellent. Also, it is time for Tivo to allow for large hard-drives (especially with HD), either as a BTO option or as aftermarket without trashing the warranty. Heck, I'd even be willing t send it back to phillips to have it done, if that's what they demand, if it was reasonably priced and big enough.

Re:HD Tivo

[natelr]

There is some luck for us digital cable folk. Comcast has already announced that their latest digital cables box's already have hard drives build in and they will soon be releasing updated software to make use of them. They have 80 gig HD's and are able to also record High Def. This was announced a few weeks ago and Tivos stock was down the next day. If you have noticed the boxes also have a Ethernet port on the back and there is eventually going to be a home networking option that will stream music/video from your computers HD. This is interesting cause in theory you would be able to copy the saved programs off the Comcast box and put them on your computer. Those of us with DVD burners can see the advantage to this.

The best part about this is we don't have to shell out $800 bucks for a new box, its just given to us by Comcast for the same monthly service charge.

Re:HD Tivo

[henryhbk]

I worry about an 80gb HD in a HDTV recording scenerio. That isn't going to hold a whole lot of programming. I am also sure, that you are not allowed to open it, and add drive space ((I realize tivo doesn't either, but they look the other way as long as you don't want warranty service; cable companies freak when you touch their boxes [since you are undoubtably stealing cable])

Re:Ah, Tivo, the most hackable of all VCR substitu

[MegaHamsterX]

Yep, I think this will happen soon, with the demise of my series 1 directtivo there is now a definite need to work on them surface mount skillz to add an offboard rom so I can do the magic. TiVo has likely even closed the holes that were present on the series 2

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[The Wicked Priest]

You might just need to rearrange the space where you keep your Tivo. I had mine in a mostly-closed cabinet under the TV -- there was a large hole in the back, mainly for wires, and small cracks along the edges of the front glass doors. In this situation, the Tivo gradually built up to 50C (as reported by the System Information menu), and stuttered.

I tried leaving the front doors open, and that brought down the temperature considerably -- maybe 42C, though I don't clearly remember. That was enough to stabilize it. But it also let all the noise out, and the open doors were awkward.

So finally I closed the doors, and instead pulled off the cardboard back of the cabinet. (The sides, top and bottom were (are) thick particle board; the back had little or no structural value.) To my surprise, the temperature went down even further, to around 37C, while the sound was muffled just about as well as with the cardboard on. Plus, I now had easier access to all the cables in the back. :-)

Re:"Stealth Bomber Cool"?

[Scyber]

I think the TV is more Stealth Fighter cool.

Re:"Stealth Bomber Cool"?

[The Wicked Priest]

The appearance. Duh. Not that I necessarily agree that it's "cool", but it certainly has a unique look, as does the TV.

I've had dual tuner DirecTivo for 2 years...

[Androgynous Coward]

How is this Beta? Am I misunderstanding? I have a gen-1 DirecTivo (without USB) and I record 2 different programs while watching a third pre-recorded one.

I love my DirecTiVo as well. It had to go get serviced once and I felt physically anxious when I was sending it out...hehehe.

Re:"Stealth Bomber Cool"?

[The Wicked Priest]

Or Disaster Area levels of black, eh?

Jargon is for the birds....

[Androgynous Coward]

Took a paragraph or so before I realized your references to 'bird' were in regards to the DirecTV satellites and not some cute lass.

DirecTivo's future

[Scryber]

Like everyone else that has a DirecTivo, I am really looking forward to an HD DirecTivo.

But, the recent approval of the sale of DirecTV to Rupert Murdoch and News Corp could portend some bad news for Tivo. Murdoch already owns a company that produces DVR units, and the industry speculation is that he will dump Tivo and replace it with his own DVR.

This is the last thing I want to see, as I love the features of my Tivo and hate the idea of Tivo (the company) being squished by Murdoch's mega conglomerate. Stay tuned...

Re:DirecTivo's future

[MBCook]

What company is that? Just wondering.

As for the rest of your comment, everything I've seen has speculated the OTHER WAY, saying that TiVo will get MORE attention now, as in some ways it's been "abandonded" by DirecTV (according to some. Example: we STILL don't have version 4, and all software updates and such are up to DirecTV, not TiVo). I have heard GOOD THINGS about what's going to happen. And why would he ditch TiVo? DirecTV has been having a hard time keeping them in stock and keeping up with demand. you think he'll replace that with some unproven thing that he makes (again: I've never heard of the DVR your talking about, but I'm not too informed in that area). If he DID try to introduce his, I would expect it to be like DirecTV used to offer UltimateTV. They would give users a CHOICE, and the winner would be kept if they were to ditch one.

Do you have any evidence? Because if you don't what you're doing is just FUDing (and I'm ANTI-FUDing to a large degree), and Slashdot has enough FUD already.

PS: I'm guessing you're just saying that because you hate Murdoch (as proved by "being squished by Murdoch's mega conglomerate"). Just because you don't seem to like him doesn't mean that he's evil and will ruin TiVo for everyone.

Re:DirecTivo's future

[Scryber]

I don't know the DVR company name, sorry. I was discussing this topic yesterday with an editor of one of my company's satellite magazines (we publish business-to-business trade magazines, newsletters, and websites). He told me (and he would know) that the speculation is that Murdoch will do the switch, purely for financial reasons, and that Tivo will be left to find a partner in the cable industry.

Here's a link to a satellite email newsletter. See the middle of the righthand column.

Does it make sense for him to do this? Like you say, Tivo is popular and I think a lot of end users (like myself) would be upset, even if the replacement unit that was sent out had an HD component. (For some people that would be a worthwhile trade-in.) Offering a choice of the two units does seem like a viable option.

P.S. I don't care for Murdoch, no. I also don't care for huge megalopolies that stifle content and drive up prices. yech! double whammy.

P.P.S. BTW, he is evil. :)

Re:DirecTivo's future

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I thought Murdoch was thinking of buying at least part of Hughes but I haven't heard of anything yet.

Excellent point...

[Androgynous Coward]

With a $40 ethernet expansion and a serial cable to get in the first time he could get his network connectivity, 240 hours+ of recording (with 2 120GB drives if he wants to invest), ability to copy shows off the drive, a web accessible interface to the unit, and more.

Only thing that could not be addressed would be the subscription. I don't mind the subscription fee, myself since I opted for lifetime. To each his own.

TiVo hacking FAQ for those not in the know. Also, google 'TiVo HTTP' and you should find the web daemon.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[BrianRoach]

Totally agree on the enclosure issue.

I have 3 Tivos (1 original that's now 4 years old, and 2 series2) and have never had a problem with heat.

If you sandwitch it in a cabinet in with a bunch of stuff, or (yes, people do this) put them on top of your receiver/amplifier ... well, they're going to overheat.

But so will anything. Before installing a couple small fans into the cabinet where everything lives, my Toshiba pro-scan DVD would overheat and refuse to play because it didn't have enough room to "breathe" (the shelf above it is too close).

- Brian Roach

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[Headius]

I was gonna post something about this top-level, but then I saw this reply...

I think it's a damned pathetic thing that a home multimedia appliance needs to have an "overheat" LED. First off, these things are supposed to have UL approval, which means their operating temperature range should be well within an average home temperature range. Why doesn't your TV, DVD player, Dishwasher or Toaster have an overheat indicator? Because hardware that's specified to work within a range of temperatures shouldn't break itself under heavy use. That's why UL approval is there - so equipment doesn't fail or burst into flames when operating within a set range of temperatures.

That said, I can understand why this temp indicator would be useful, but seriously: you should take this up with the manufacturer. If the hardware is failing under normal (albeit heavy) use, you've got a hell of a case for replacement. If it is really a problem that TiVos overheat and fail while operating within their approved temperature ranges, they're violating their UL approval and the units should be recalled and/or repaired.

Hardware companies pull these scams pretty often, skimping on safety or reliability measures in the name of manufacturing cost or marketability. If the TiVo needs a wind tunnel attached to the back to keep it cool, the system is poorly designed. If they don't include it and the system fails, it's TiVo's fault.

I don't own a TiVo, but I'm surprised that people would take this lying down. Stand up for your consumer rights, people; you have the right to products that don't break themselves when operating within tolerances. IANAL, but I think it's safe to say you even have the *legal* right to take action. It shouldn't be a "dirty little secret" that a piece of mainstream hardware breaks itself. It's THEIR fault, not yours.

And before someone says "well nobody guarantees the hardware in my super-duper homebuilt machine to always work" I will say this: Your homebuilt machine does not meet any approval other than your own, and if hardware in it fries, it's your own fault for not providing enough cooling. You are running the hardware outside its tolerances, and you suffer the consequences.

smoooooth LotR

[DonGar]

Actually, I thought that projected movies where choppy and jittery long before I knew the frame rate was only 24 fps.

I've complained many, many times to management that their projectors were out of alignment.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[Politburo]

Once again, upon any claims of a failing product, the anecdotal evidence to the contrary comes flying in!

What some people need to realize is that just because your unit works, that does not mean that all units will still be working after the same amount of time. Where are the people that yell "causation!=correllation" like its "four legs good, two legs bad"? They should be here yelling "one isn't a large enough sample"! This person was even accused of spreading FUD by a user whose Tivo is still functioning. Ridiculous.

I don't own a Tivo. I have no idea if they have an overheating problem or not. Even if I owned a Tivo, I would still not know if they have an overheating problem or not. I would only know if my Tivo had an overheating problem or not.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[APDent]

Regarding this comment:

new LED's on the front including "Temp" for those sure to be occurring overheats.

I've looked at the photo. Try as I might, I don't see any such LED. The only LEDs I can see are labeled 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, PWR, and REC. Maybe the little TiVo logo guy lights up when he gets too hot.

Perhaps you meant to complain about some other non-TiVo device that I don't see a picture of.

Here here, on compression especially!

[Ayanami Rei]

I had occaision one day to hang around a pro-sumer TV/home audio boutique and they had a whole wall of _nice_ plasma and LCD displays. They were playing DirecTV HD, specifically DiscoveryHD. After a few minutes viewing I was astonished how artifact ridden the feed was. You could see all sorts of blocking effects, especially around the edges of objects moving across the frame.
The pricey TVs made the artifacts abundantly clear, and it kind of took the wind out of my sails in wanting to get HD-capable DirecTV soon. I'm wondering if it's the network, or the carrier, or what? It doesn't have me very excited.
Maybe I'll wait until DVDs (or the equivalent) start coming out in 720p formats before I buy new equipment.

Re:DirecTiVos are overrated.

[fantastic]

It took me just under 30mins to upgrade my directivo to add ethernet, record to dvd etc, works perfectly since. How much time have you spent rebuilding your myth tv box? How much did your mpeg card cost?

temp led where?

[openSoar]

maybe i've been imbibing of the christmas spirit too much but i don't see a led marked "Temp" on that image on the hd directivo... have i been eating beef for breakfast ?

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[bonehead]

I don't see it, either. I see all of the same LEDs that you mentioned, but nothing labelled "Temp".

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[ErikZ]

GEez, more of you guys need to work in retail before saying stuff like this.

UL approval just makes sure it's safe. It doesn't mean that the unit won't overheat and die.

As to WHY they need to put such an LED on the device, the answer is simple. Consumers.

I'm sure that the built-in cooling is fine in a well ventilated area. But then you get people who will cram the device in a small glass case, sandwiched between other heat-producing devices.

I wouldn't be surprised if the machine keeps track of how often it is operating in the "Red" zone.

Re:cuzin' betty

[d3faultus3r]

I'm guessing someone recorded a Dukes of Hazzard episode on their Tivo and posted a transcript of it to /.
And yes the new features of the tivo are pretty cool, but it just gives trolls more bad tv shows to use as trolling material

Saw a DEMO Recently

[OYAHHH]

Hi,

I had the opportunity to be at a demo of the new HDTivo given at TIVO HQ about a month ago. I wrote the following review note to an interested friend who couldn't make it to the demo.

You may find it interesting:

->

Derek,

A few observations which I hope Dan will correct if they are incorrectly stated.

- First, one of the features I think I've heard you saying you have been wanting for a long time. Folders for your "Now Playing List".

From my understanding, the standalone TIVO units currently have the 4.0 software release that has this feature. Our current TIVOs should be getting the 4.0 software upgrade at some point in time, and thus this feature.

As to how it works, I didn't quite catch that, Dan, did you get it?

- In general, the TIVO folks appear to simply have added HD capability to the box. Other than the HD there doesn't seem to be any huge "WOWs" coming down the pike.

The presenter made the statement that they had designed the series 2 tivo with extensibility built-in so that they could upgrade it to HD. And to me that's what they have done. That's my OPINION.

- Someone brought up if a space/recording time remaining indicator was included on the machine. The presenter kind of blew that one off. See the next bullet.

- If the HD signal is 720 then only 720 is saved. If it is 1024 then 1024 is saved. Thus, the amount of space required to save will be variable. TIVO as a company quotes storage capacity as a conservative type number.

- 250GB hard drive. ~30 hours HD, 200 normal def.

- 4 tuners, 2 HD, 2 Regular OTA. Can record from 2 tuners at same time. Any combination.

- Up to two network zones. I think you will like this feature. Basically it's an off-the-air feature where you can tell the TIVO that you can recieve both the bay area stations and the sacramento stations and it can figure it all out.

- Season passes/wishlists can be designated as HD only. You can define a season pass for CSI in HD and then have a duplicate season pass in reg def. Then you simply order them in the season pass manager. The TIVO will then record both the HD and reg def versions simultaneously.

- The DirecTV channel menu was TOO SLOW, almost unuseable, the TIVO channel menu was fairly quick. It didn't take long for the presenter to switch to the TIVO channel menu.

- The DirectTv channel menu did indicate which shows were in HD.

- The DirectTv channel menu did indicate which channels were in HD. Thus, for channel five there was three(? correct number) channels. The reg def 5, then 5.1, and 5.2.

- The DirectTv channel menu was now opaque if I remember correctly. I don't remember seeing a program playing behind the menus. Dan, do you remember?

- A TIVO engineer stated that the chipset was basically the same, but that some speed had been added, but they wouldn't state how much.

- An engineer stated that the Now Playing list had been worked on so that it would scroll/page up/page down, etc. faster. Once again, no indication of how much better it was, just that it was now "more optimized".

- No HD out for recording purposes. Machine will down convert to 480/analog for VCR/DVD recording purposes.

- I never did catch whether the HD box will have Home Media Option (i.e. sharing between TIVOs). Dan, did you catch what was going on with this?

- Form factor is about the same. Same basic box, same basic remote. Only IR remote. Sorry about that one.

Dan, if I left out something then feel free to speak up.

Re:TiVo's dirty little secret

[OYAHHH]

I do have a TIVO and it does not have an overheating problem.

I took the cover off once to upgrade the hard-drives and it's basically a PC inside.

It has a cooling fan which pulls air from the bottom and pushes air over the hard-drive(s). The fan is just a run-of-the-mill PC cooling fan. Easily disconnected (see adventure below) and replaced if necessary.

If you block either the holes at the bottom or the holes on the side/top then you will probably get a heating issue.

Two hard drives in a small box do tend to run fairly hot.

And if you're a bozo like me and forget to hook back up your cooling fan the TIVO has internal circuitry that shuts it down if it gets too hot.

That's what happened to mine. I got up the day after upgrading my drives to find my TIVO shutdown. Immediate thoughts went through my head of "Oh no! I've killed it!"

Only to discover a screen on my display from the TIVO that said I had an overheating issue.

Lastly, the TIVO has an on-screen diagnostic screen which will tell you your TIVO current temp.

You can easily monitor it that way.

Ostia Smart Navigator

[SirDaShadow]

Ah...did you know that the "ostia" in Spain and catholic circles means the thing that the bishop/father gives you on your mouth during mass? (sorry about the rather poor definition of ostia, but it's funny to see products that are named without considering global meanings)

Re:Ah, Tivo, the most hackable of all VCR substitu

[evilviper]

So hopefully someone will be able to modify TIVO in such a way it ignores the 'do not record' flag on HD

Give me a break people... Why waste several hundreds of dollars on a single-function device that you are mostly locked-out of, when you could just get a REAL computer, and tell it to do ANYTHING you want it to do?

If a few programmers released something of a multimedia distro, it could be very easy to setup.

DRM Restrictions?

[MMHere]

(I read posts attached to this at /. article at threshold=3, and didn't see this asked yet. If I missed it or duped the notion, flame away. Otherwise...)

-----

So what about the DRM restrictions that may be present in this device, or may later become "magically" enabled?

Scenario:

You use your Hughes DirecTiVo for several months, and very much enjoy the ability to:

(1) time shift viewing of shows to the time of your liking.

(2) during such viewing, skip over advertising you don't want to see.

(3) keep recorded programs and later view them as many times as you like.

Pretty much standard analog VCR stuff, but at higher picture quality, and with the advantage of random access to play points within the content.

Then one day, you go back to that Friends episode you recorded and intend to keep (and have re-played a few times already), and... *bam* a dialog pops up saying "you've already viewed this 10 times, please insert a quarter to play again!"

Hmm.

Or, you've been recording automatically at night, time-shifting your playback until the next morning, playing at that time and skipping ads.

One morning you play the first scene, reach for the "skip" button at the first predictable advertising break, and, *NewFeature* the skip button doesn't work. Interestingly, the unit has also inserted into the video stream new ads you know were't there upon the initial recording (because you watched it live last night) -- stuff possibly like -- Hey! TiVo notices yer Bi! Congrats! Would you like to see our selection of one-click purchaseable products which may be amenable to you at this time? Just press BUY on your remote to have XYZ shipped to you right away!

Meander over to the Preferences menu, youthinks, yet find no way to turn these *NewFeatures* off.

Or^2, another morning, you go to time shift and play that new RealSex episode you recorded late last night from HBO. Another new dialog pops, which says something like, "this nudity containing program" cannot be replayed at this time of day (not the kids' bedtime you see). Please play again later.

So timeshifting at times of my choosing is now not permitted during certain Times Of My Choosing. Hmm, that's not timeshifting...

-----

If I can in fact record HD video off broadcast to a large random access device for future playback and cataloging (according to my own wishes, I paid for it), then this is good. But what happens when all these intrusive behaviors begin to appear?

Has anyone (not bound by an NDA) (or who is a lawyer) read the beta licenses that are likely to be shipped with these new devices?

I will pay Fair and Balanced prices for access to and control of media I choose to purchase. I do wish to purchase it and control my own use of it without intervention.

If I can control the H.HD.D.T.V, it will be really cool.

If *TheMan* makes my bought device do stuff I ain't wantin it to do, or changes its behaviors en route, it is significantly less cool.

I love/hate my Danger (T-Mobile) Color Sidekick

[k4cay]

I love the things that work on my Danger hiptop device. It's a fun, convenient way to send and receive email and do light web browsing during the day away from my computer. The keyboard's a lot easier than trying to type with a stylus on my Pocket PC.

I hate the way it's so difficult to sync with said computer, since, despite the included usb cable, it won't sync directly with or work as a modem for my laptop. I'm forced to export contact and calendar data to a website, and then it's transmitted to the phone when I'm in a cell, again.

It's _almost_ everyting I expected.

TiVo temp LED?

[stickyc]

Within is a shot of the new Hughes HD DirecTiVo with some new LED's on the front including "Temp" for those sure to be occurring overheats.

Are we looking at the same image? I see no "temp" LED's. Maybe you're confusing those with the format LED's? (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)

I've done plenty of cruel things to my TiVo, like stick two 7200rpm drives in it and stuff it in a stereo cabinet above my amp and haven't seen any dangerously high temps (I've since backed down to a single 5400rpm drive and moved it away from the amp for peace-of-mind).