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Solar-Powered Plane to Fly Around the World
securitas writes "The BBC's Carolyn Fry reports on the Solar Impulse project, a plan to circumnavigate the globe in a solar-powered airplane. Adventurers Brian Jones and Dr. Bertrand Piccard, who were the first people to circumnavigate the globe in a balloon in 1999, are behind the Solar Impulse project. The project is proceeding to the design stage after a feasability study determined that the solar-powered airplane concept is a viable idea. While other solar-powered planes like the Helios prototype have relied on a secondary power source (fuel cells), this project will be powered by solar energy alone. Batteries will store energy received in daylight hours to fly all night. The first prototype is scheduled for launch in 2006."
I first read about this sort of thing back in the 1970s. Proposals back then focused on constructing huge satellites (think 5 miles by 5 miles or 10 KM by 10 KM) in geosynchronous orbit. Energy would be beamed to earth via microwaves or lasers.
Planes could be powered via laser pointed at various reception devices (photovoltaic, steam generators, etc.).
Clouds would not be a major problem. Just pick a frequency that penetrated the clouds fairly easily. Or, in the case of airplanes, fly above the clouds.
For lots more information, just Google "Space Solar Power" [google.com].
Let me get this straight. Solar powered planes? How would this work in say a flight from London to America? It takes about a day in which the sun goes down. What will happen when the sun goes down? Will it crash? Will it run on reserve batteries? I'm not the world's most intelligent person, but I'm wondering how this will catch on...
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How would it be to fly close to the pole that has summer. There the night is very short. And the distance is short.
You're probably thinking of journalist Nellie Bly (pseudonym of Elizabeth Jane Cochrane), who left New York on November 14, 1889 and returned on January 25, 1890, beating Phileas Fogg's fictional journey by over a week. Phileas Fogg was a character in Jules Verne's novel "Around the World in 80 Days," published in 1872.
[now drifting irremediably OT] "Around the World in 80 Days" was a hell of a good movie, based on Verne's novel, which was released in 1956. It was filmed in Todd-AO--one of a handful of movies filmed in that process. It was spectacular and gorgeous and a lot of fun to watch. It had quite a cast, David Niven as Phileas Fogg and Cantinflas as Passepartout. Only bad part was that the theme, which was quite catchy, had become a hit tune and had been played on the radio so often that by the time I saw the film--this was in the days when movies stayed in theatres for more than a couple of weeks, and in the case of Cinerama and Todd-AO spectaculars it could have been months--everybody was thoroughly sick of the theme music.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
The solar cells will charge batteries. The batteries will power a bank of flashlights that will keep the wings illuminated at night.
Helios used fuel cells to *store* energy from the solar cells in a closed system. This new project uses *batteries* to perform the same function. Therefore, the phrase this project will be powered by solar energy alone is not correct in implying there is anything significantly different than the Helios.
(BTW, I did some minor work on the Helios fuel cells)
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Don't know about the 1970's, but I sure remember reading about it at the end of November. Hmm. The story makes Slashdot on the day of the announcement, and the BBC is a month behind? Maybe it's not as bad around here as some would have us believe... ;)
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Indeed.
Everybody knows that the God wants us to burn oil, gas and coal.
Bomb anyone who thinks to the contrary.
The owls are not what they seem
Why not just fly the other drection and stay in the sunlight?
It's not often I get to ask this politely... what planet are you on? This one rotates too fast (1670 km/hr at the equator, 670 km/hr at the Artic/Antarctic Circles). I don't know how fast this flimsy looking plane will travel but consider the speed of sound at sea level is 1225 km/hr. You can extend daylight hours by flying in an easterly direction but you probably couldn't avoid the night entirely in this thing.
"Batteries will store energy received in daylight hours to fly all night."
Why not just fly the other drection and stay in the sunlight?
Earth's circumference: around 24,000 miles.
Hours in a day: around 24.
Speed of Earth's rotation at surface: around 1,000 miles per hour.
Look on your face as the sun goes wooshing past your solar plane: priceless.
The Law of Falling Bodies
If a manned solar-powered plane can fly around the world, then one could conclude that an unmanned solar-powered plane could reliably operate for indefinate periods of time above a city or region while carrying a substantial payload.
We can create controllable aircraft that don't ever have to land. That's huge.
Such a plane could function as the equivalent of a local communications satellite, with the latency benefits of not being thousands of miles away in geosync orbit. It could transmit and receive line-of-sight microwave communications with hundreds of thousands of people. It could relay data to other planes hundreds of miles away. It would also be several orders of magnitude less expensive to fly, and would be maintainable.
Businesses are spending hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars a month on reliable private communications between their offices in the same city. There is definately a market for this.
Aren't fuel cells batteries?
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Perhaps not as silly as it first sounds ...
Fly with the sun during the day, to maximise the sunlight hours, then turn around and fly the other way during the night, to minimise the night, and about turn at dawn again to continue. Net gain in the desired direction with maximum sunlight.
Obviously, this increases the distance actually travelled and time taken, but if the objective is simply to fly around the world using solar powered flight, that doesn't really matter.
Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
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Thw Wright brother's flyer did not transport any cargo. The first artificial satellite did nothing other than send a radio beep. The first digital computer filled a large room and was about as powerful as the processor in your wristwatch.
Things start small. Get a clue.
Where is this a quote from? The article and site show an aircraft with traditional propellers on its tail.
What ESA is claiming is new about this mission
European Space Agency? Where were they mentioned?
is that they'll be combining ion propulsion with gravity assist maneuvers
Aircraft, as a rule, do not perform gravity assist maneuvers. It's a horrible faux paus.
The parent was likely cut-n-pasted from somewhere else. Moderate appropriately.
Back for a return engagement..
Around the World in a Solar Plane
The Piccards are well known for scientific exploration and adventure. Bertrand went around the world in the a balloon. The Piccard family is known as the inventor of the modern hot air balloon. Here is info on Don Piccard, one of his relatives. The bathyscaphe used to explore deep ocean areas was developed by Auguste Piccard. I've had the pleasure of speaking with Don Piccard before. Great family all around.
Please mod this troll down (see his user page for numerous first posts and other trolls). This plane doesn't use ion engines, doesn't have anything to do with the ESA, and doesn't go into outer space and therefore can't be using gravity assist maneuvers.
If you look at how much energy we use vs. how much renewable energy is available, it looks like a no-brainer to switch. The problem is that renewables are typically unavailable when, where and as desired. If there's a solution, it will begin with using the sun, wind, water and whatnot when they're working and only fall back to stuff like petroleum when (nighttime, dry season, calm conditions) and where (long-haul driving, northern climates in winter) the other stuff isn't available.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
This has already been discussed on /.
But maybe I could get even better karma by reposting my old comments into this new thread?
Speed of Earth's rotation at surface: around 1,000 miles per hour
This is true at the equator, but as you get closer to the poles, the speed will reduce. At the north and south poles, there will only be rotation. Since London is quite a bit north of the equator, the speed of the Earth below will be less than 1,000 mph.
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
When Concorde was around you could arrive in New York earlier than you left London.
In any case, you could start your journey early in the morning local time, and arrive in the evening local time, which would allow you to fly slower than the earth's rotation and still stay in daylight.
Fly west, when night comes, turn your plane around and fly towards the approacing dawn (east), this way you reduce the nighttime and increase daylight :)
If time isn't of importance... wonder if they thought about this...
Also, it can be replaced within a couple hours in case of problems.
Why not just fly the other drection and stay in the sunlight?
:)
1- You cannot fly fast enough. (as many other posters said)
2- If you are thinking about enjoying a longer day, consider that you will also suffer a longer night
If you look at how much energy we use vs. how much renewable energy is available, it looks like a no-brainer to switch. The problem is that renewables are typically unavailable when, where and as desired. If there's a solution, it will begin with using the sun, wind, water and whatnot when they're working and only fall back to stuff like petroleum when (nighttime, dry season, calm conditions) and where (long-haul driving, northern climates in winter) the other stuff isn't available.
This could and should already be happening, but the real dictators (the few immensely rich people who essentially own everything on earth) obviously don't want it to while there is still money to be made from oil, etc. These same people own almost all the media. Two plus two.. God Bless America LOL.
from PR Watch: "Topics such as energy conservation have been noticeably missing from public discussions of strategies needed for America to achieve energy self-reliance. Patriotism and self-sacrifice may be the rhetoric of the day, but apparently self-sacrifice cannot be allowed to include giving up gas-guzzling SUVs."
Just quit buying it.
"where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
"2- If you are thinking about enjoying a longer day, consider that you will also suffer a longer night :)"
:(
Buddy boy, we're _all_ going to suffer a longer night.
This is true at the equator, but as you get closer to the poles, the speed will reduce. At the north and south poles, there will only be rotation. Since London is quite a bit north of the equator, the speed of the Earth below will be less than 1,000 mph.
Still in excess of 600 mph...
When Concorde was around you could arrive in New York earlier than you left London.
This is because Concorde could cruise at twice the speed of sound. In older to do this it required 4 thirsty afterburning turbojet engines.
In any case, you could start your journey early in the morning local time, and arrive in the evening local time, which would allow you to fly slower than the earth's rotation and still stay in daylight.
This won't work over any distance without a plane which can fly at something close to the speed of sound. This plane does not have the right wing shape to do this.
Because the plane DOESN'T use that kind of propulsion.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
It's not often I get to ask this politely... what planet are you on? This one rotates too fast (1670 km/hr at the equator, 670 km/hr at the Artic/Antarctic Circles).
:)
So long as it's summer chasing the sun ceases to be an issue within the Artic/Antartic Circles
I don't know how fast this flimsy looking plane will travel but consider the speed of sound at sea level is 1225 km/hr.
There is no way this plane is designed to travel at anything close to the speed of sound. Even if it has a reasonable top speed it may well have poor acceleration.
I mean really, WHY ? Just because they think they can ? What are the possible implication in a commercial market ? NONE....
A plane which can fly around the world on solar power means that it can stay in the air indefinitly. Such a plane could perform functions carried out by comsats, but would be a lot cheaper and potentially recoverable for servicing and upgrading.
Now if someone said they were going to fly around the world on NATURAL GAS, or Cow Shit, that would be cool. Seriously, a LNG plane would be cool, and there are a lot of reasons to do it,
You could power a plane on compressed methane, except that the tankage you'd need is more complex and heavier than the liquid fuels used now.
but SOLAR is NOT going to be powering any transport planes in the near future.
A large part of the takeoff weight of a plane is fuel.
> Why not just fly the other drection and stay in the sunlight? :)
>
>1- You cannot fly fast enough. (as many other posters said)
>
>2- If you are thinking about enjoying a longer day, consider that you will also suffer a longer night
Ah, when I submitted the previous message it stroke me:
The idea is to make the night shorter. If the beast flies at only 160Kph, which is reasonable considering its size, the length of the night (going east)is about 20% shorter than duration of the night when you go west. This means you can get rid of 20% of your weight in batteries.
Such a plane could function as the equivalent of a local communications satellite, with the latency benefits of not being thousands of miles away in geosync orbit.
Also a lot easier and cheaper to get it where it needs to be. In order to launch a comsat you need to place a complex and expensive machine on top of another machine made up mostly of explosives. You are also constrained by the schedule of the launching company.
...that America and New Zealand don't refuse them use of their sunlight. Don't want to encourage these tourists after all.
Anyway anyone have any idea about the feasibility of this idea? From what I can tell some flywheels have better power density than batteries.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
just wondering... are there any electrical alternatives to jet engines that would provide similar speed? if we ever got entirely off fossil fuels, how would passenger jets work?
Oh, wait, that's Dr. Piccard, not Captain Picard.
Never mind.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Oh, and this: Then, batteries will store energy received in nightlight hours to fly all day...right? Uh no.
So....seriously, depending on the time of year and where they circumnavigate, say they get 12 hours of daylight; how is this thing gonna get 24 hours worth of flight out of that? I would be very interested to know.
It'll be interesting to see what they mean by circumnavigating. For example, circumnavigating in the baloon doesn't mean you have to fly 40.000 km around the world, but rather travel all 360 degrees below/above a ceratin lattitude. So if you're flying at 45 degrees lat., you need to cross almost 50% less distance, and you'd still be 'going around the world'.
In other words, if they fly during the summer and just keep at a certain lattitude, days will be much longer than nights and the feat would be easier to accomplish.
Also, why use batteries at all when plane's potential energy can be used as a form of storage? Just climb during the day when there is sunlight and glide without power at night. No need for heavy batteries!
I wouldn't want one of those over my house, especially in a state like Texas or Florida where storms are an everyday fact of life.
"It's not often I get to ask this politely... what planet are you on? This one rotates too fast (1670 km/hr at the equator, 670 km/hr at the Artic/Antarctic Circles)."
So long as it's summer chasing the sun ceases to be an issue within the Artic/Antartic Circles :)
But when it is summer in the arctic it is winter in the antarctic, and vice versa....
Why not just put landing gear for water on the plane and then land (in the ocean or wherever) at night?
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