Warning: Exploding Batteries

batlike writes "It seems I have been quite lucky up to this point as I habitually leave my laptop in the trunk of my car - which is just over the gas tank (duh!) . See this article in InfoWorld by Ephraim Schwartz for details. You may want to give it a once over if you currently use lithium-ion batteries."

Comments

Not a fireball

[shuz]

Of course they don't really explode into a fire ball but rather short circuit, heat up, melt, and leak acid everywhere.

Re:Not a fireball

[kfg]

Overheated NiCads are far more impressive. Gas and acid start shooting out of the vent hole under high pressure, turning them into a rocket if they are sitting loose.

Did ya know that people will scatter like crazy when that happens? They jump up on the banquet tables and everything. Quite a sight.

KFG

Re:Not a fireball

[shuz]

Also mind you that for a truly violent "seeping of flame" to occur the Li-ion battery must be charging. I am not an expert but I would guess that if the unit is just sitting that it could still short circuit and heat up but the energy released could not exceed that of which is stored in the battery. If your charging a battery and it short circuits then the energy released could not exceed that of the current in your circuit breaker which is usually about 15-20amp's. If you figure that a typical charger is 9 volts thats 20*9 so 1800 watts max of released energy + E stored in battery, which of course is a hell of a lot of energy but then your circuit breaker goes and... I am rambling...

Re:Not a fireball

[arivanov]

Litium is extremely toxic. And the energy density in an average laptop battery is enough to bring more then enough of it in the air.

The scary part is that got allowed on board of airplanes after the FAA got convinced that correctly operating bateries are safe. Well... This brings up the obvious question - what about incorrectly operating ones. And what about ones that have had their short circuit protection removed? Nearly perfect bomb and perfectly legal to bring onboard passing all security checks with flying colours.

Scary...

Re:Not a fireball

[Kazymyr]

Lithium is toxic, but only in huge amounts and, more importantly, only after a long exposure (weeks). It is used in the treatment of certain psychiatric disorders, and it isn't unusual for a patient to receive several grams of lithium daily. A short-term toxic dose of lithium is probably contained in about 20 or so batteries, and only assuming you inhale ALL of the fumes resulting from their explosion. Not likely to happen.

Love the quality reporting

[Crypto Gnome]

Article was not much more than an advertisement for Valence and their new Battery Technology.

(sigh)Lucky for us they didn't require us to pay for that crap.

Re:Love the quality reporting

[UrgleHoth]

Not to mention that he brings up fuel cells in the article/ad:
"Long-term fuel cells that convert hydrogen and oxygen to electricity -- don't ask me how -- are a promising alternative."
Notice that he neglects to go into any basic details on fuel cells. I found this link by doing a google search on fuel cells.
It would have taken him very little effort to come up with a one or two sentence description.
Damn lazy journalist.

warning: story is just a big add

[extra the woos]

so i go to read the story and...

"Because Valence claims to offer a safer alternative"

"Currently, Valence is shipping outboard devices -- N-Charge, weighing just under three pounds"

"The next generation from Valence will be small enough to use as a direct replacement for your current laptop battery and will be available next year."

come on slashdot, infoworld, this isn't news, this is a PRESS RELEASE

A Trend? Moron...

[the_mad_poster]

But when I read three stories, all in reputable news outlets, well, that's a trend.

Okay, chicken little. Whatever you say. Three stories in reputable news outlets is a trend. Let's see. If .05% of the 290M+ population of the U.S. owns a laptop, that means what, 2.06 x 10^-6 % of all the notebook owners in the U.S. experienced that in the past several months (someone might want to check my math.. it's really early)? That's a trend? If that's the case, aren't you far more likely to win the lottery several times than have your laptop battery explode?

Imbecile. There's an enormous difference between something being a possibility and being even remotely likely. Sounds like those idiotic news reports networks show to get stupid people to watch ("WILL YELLOW STICKY NOTES KILL YOU? FIND OUT HOW YOU CAN PROTECT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AT SIX!!!!")

Jogger died via exploding MP3 player's battery

[ljavelin]

I guess I like empirical evidence. There are a lot of lithium ion batteries out there - I own a number of devices with them. I never had a problem, and no one I know has had a problem.

But I don't watch a lot of TV news... maybe I've missed these stories:

• "Family of seven burns to death in car while travelling to church - laptop battery to blame"
  
• "Chatty woman in restaurant decapitated by exploding cell phone battery".
  
• "Saddam caught - U.S. Soldiers effectively use iPods to force former Iraqi leader from his bunker"
  

Calm down

[SuperBanana]

And what about ones that have had their short circuit protection removed?

You can't, it's often integral to the cell, so a fair amount of surgery is involved.

Nearly perfect bomb and perfectly legal to bring onboard passing all security checks with flying colours.

Oh for chrissakes...no, something that would get really hot, start smoking, and then catch fire. Ever since(and in fact before) the Valuejet incident, planes have smoke detectors and fire suppression systems in their cargo holds, so it's a moot point if it ends up in cargo vs. carry-on. The issue of toxicity is moot because that's why planes have oxygen systems that the pilot can deploy. The mask systems in the cockpits are also usually much better than the paper-cup jobbies the Cattle get.

People- Calm. The. Fuck. Down. Planes don't explode because something inside them catches fire, they don't start crashing because someone shoots a gun, yadda yadda. Cars don't explode because a battery overheats in the trunk. Stop watching so many action movies...

Re:Battery Joules, Stupid Electric and Hybrid Cars

[mfarver]

Yeah, your lowly little AA rechargable would happily dump 6,120A in 1 second if the short circuit had small enough resistance.

You're neglecting the fact that a battery is not a perfect voltage source. To correctly model a battery you must put a resistance in series with the voltage source, since all batteries have a internal resistance.

That having been said.. a standard D NiCd cell can put out almost 1000amps for short periods. This is why fuses and other standard short circuit protection devices were invented. Most battery packs have at least one internal fuse, larger ones will have several to handle the possibility of intra-pack shorts.

I'd love to know the Ah specification for the battery in the back seat of the Honda Hybrids. It absolutely terrifies me to know that idiots are buying them and driving around.

Then look it up.

"a total output of 144 V and 6.5 amp-hours" for the Honda Insight... about 6.0amp/hr for the Civic. The batteries themselves are Nickel Metal Hydride "D" cells.

The batteries are time bombs, hazardous waste and chemical burn nightmares.

Hazardous waste? There are far more Superfund cleanup sites caused by leaking gasoline/oil storage than battery manufacture. Lead Acid batteries are the most recycled item in the United States (more than AL cans). 95% of the battery itself can be recycled (the plastic case is often discarded. Lithium should ideally not be disposed of in the trash, but in a LiOH battery it is pretty stable. Lead Acid does offer the possibility of Acid burns, but the dilute acid is really only a problem is it gets in your eyes.. on the skin it typically only causes irration and a mild rash. And don't forget.. the explosive potential of the gasoline in your car is equal to almost 3 sticks of dynamite.

The charging process is inefficient at best (<50%).

Not sure where you get your numbers... Lead Acid batteries charging in large strings is over 90% efficent. From powerplant to road electric cars are more than twice as efficent as burning gasoline in an internal combustion engine (more than 50% of the energy in the coal burned in the powerplant ends up moving the car, as opposed to only about 11% of the energy of gasoline). Better still if you factor the environmental/energy cost of transporting, and refining the fuel (Think of the fuel it takes to run the tanker that brings the gasoline to you).

A gasoline car will always emit the same, or more pollution during its life. Most powerplants get cleaner everyday from tighter environmental resitrictions. My electric car is powered entirely from renewable energy (wind) and is more or less "zero emmission" because of it.

How many new coal and nuclear power plants are gonna have to be built when 10,000,000 Los Angeles commuters start plugging in their electric cars every night?

Most electric cars will be charged during the evening or early morning hours when demand for electricity is at its lowest. The EPA estimates that over half of the cars in California could be electric, and no additional power generation would be required. Indeed, one company showed a prototype electric car that could be used as battery when plugged in, and provide desperatly needed peaking power to avoid brownouts.

I have actually seen a video (by Valence) of a lithium ion (cobalt) battery being driven into thermal runaway... it goes off like a torch. Not something you want to have happen, but the safety systems in the batteries themselves are excellent. There have been only a handful of battery fires in the millions of currently deployed batteries.

I realize this is slashdot.. but if you want people to believe your college educated it never hurts to do some research before opening your mouth.