Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

RFID Casino Chips

Posted by michael on from the dealing-from-the-bottom-of-the-deck dept.

scubacuda writes "Could casinos be the next Gillette or Wal-Mart? New Scientist and others report that casinos could soon start using RFID tags to spot counterfeits and thefts, and also to monitor the behaviour of gamblers. Embedded RFID tags should make the chips much harder to counterfeit, and placing tag readers at staff exits could cut down on theft by employees. (With companies like Infosys helping clients identify and plan pilot RFID projects, we'll no doubt be seeing more and more companies dabbling in this area. Those interested in reading objections to RFID use should check out the position paper issued by CASPIAN, EPIC, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, Junkbusters, ACLU, Meyda Online, EFF, and PrivacyActivism.)"

18 of 271 comments (clear)

  1. wont stem employee theft. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So they now have to stop in the kitchen to wrap that stack of $100.00 chips in tinfoil before they leave...

    rfid is not a theft prevention solution for small items.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:wont stem employee theft. by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 5, Funny

      just outlaw tinfoil under the DMCA.. problem solved

    2. Re:wont stem employee theft. by bigbigbison · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At the casino I worked at, employees who have acess to the kitchen are not the same ones that have access to enough chips to make it worthwhile. There are cameras everywhere in a casino, out on the floor as well as behind the scenes.

      I honestly can't think that employee theft of chips is really that huge of an issue since the ammount of money that each cashier has is counted at the end of shift and if you are off enough money to make stealing chips worth it, say $500+ then they will not let you work there long if you are off that much very often. They even went so far as to make us use clear cups with clear liquid in them in the cage so that we could drop things in them.

      Dealers are under a lot more scrutiny from the cameras than cashiers. There are dedicated cameras looking at the chips on the table.

      At the casino I worked at, chips in the chip bank, (in storage) are supposed to be counted and verified every shift so a theft there would be caught fairly easilly.

      When I worked in the cashier cage and was the banker in charge of the cashiers in the cage, it wasn't uncommon to call down to the vault and have half a million dollars in cash delivered. So with that kind of money floating around, if I was going to steal, i wouldn't have been chips. If, as an employee, you are going to steal from the casino, you need to go big becasue if you do it multiple times, you will get caught.

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  2. Re:Ouch for card counters... by Mod+Me+God · · Score: 4, Funny

    Not when I get my RFID reader and read the tags on the cards in blackjack ;)

    --
    --

    FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
  3. I'll let them RFID me... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...as long as they let me RFID their cards...

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  4. Link me to them... by tgd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a great use for RFID tags. Watch all the chips, watch where the move, and track which ones I have.

    I love to go to the casino and play card games like Blackjack or more importantly Craps. Accurate tracking of chips tagged to me would mean two things: accurate comping and the ability to have a technical solution to ensuring payouts are correct.

    Those of you who have played craps at a busy table will know what I mean -- the accuracy of your payouts when you win is always in the hands of the "dealer" working your half of the table. I've been payed wrong many times, sometimes in my favor, sometimes not. Sometimes money comes in from bets I forgot I had on the table, sometimes I wonder if I got missed on a payout.

    If this means that questioning a missed payout can be more accurate or means at a minimum the casino can see in aggregate when they have someone working the table who consistently makes payout errors, more power to them.

    This isn't a privacy issue. If you think you have one spec of anonymity or privacy in a casino, you're nuckin futs.

    1. Re:Link me to them... by fishbowl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It shows that you really do play, thanks for posting tgd.

      People whose gambling experience consists of losing a roll of nickles in a slot machine, don't get it: You don't really want anonymity. You want the casino to know you're there, that you're playing, etc. You want to play in tourneys. You want comps. You want them to know you played, win or lose. If you're not picking up comps, you're missing half the strategy.

      You don't want anonymity, you want them to notice you and say "Hello mister TGF, can I get you anything?"

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  5. Wow by jjoyce · · Score: 4, Funny

    This really changes the scrupulous image that the casinos had going for them.

  6. More power to 'em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's finally happened. The SlashThink phenomenon of "RFID is bad" has officially deteriorated into irrelevancy. This time, we're apparently supposed to think that RFID in casinos has something to do with our rights. It doesn't, and shouldn't. Nobody goes into a casino against their will, and nobody should be surprised that casinos exist for the sole purpose of tracking and taking money. For casinos to *not* use RFID to their advantage would be stupid and irresponsible.

  7. Re:This actually seems like a good use of RFID by introverted · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Why would anyone even take the chips out of the casino anyway?

    I doubt they care too much if you take the chips out of the casino. After all, chips that go away don't have to be converted back into cash -- it's just that much extra profit.

    What they don't want is for you to walk out the door with a stack of $1 chips and bring them back made to look like $100 chips. Presumably the RFID would also make it easier for them to detect fake chips that had never been in any casino before.

  8. Yes, privacy in a casino is highly sought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (Posting anonymously under fear of karma loss from that knee gently jerking back and forth in the Slashdot community. "Ahhhh! He's not agreeing with my anti-RFID stance! Heretic! Mod him down!")

    How does this even remotely relate to "your rights"? Casino chips are the equivalent of "disney cash" in theme parks, IE under normal circumstances they are only used within the casino itself. Preventing loss would make the casino more money, and they might even use that to raise your pay tables when you're gaming.

    The articles mention monitoring gamblers, but come on... you're in a casino! Your movements are tracked by a hundred cameras from the time you walk in to the time you walk out. Casino employees on the floor are designed to monitor your movement and habits and either 1) ask you to leave or 2) give you a free buffet coupon, depending on what you are doing. You have no privacy whatsoever and very little anonymosity in a casino. Sometimes that works out to your advantage.

    Yes, there are bad uses for RFID. I don't see this as being one of them. Next thing you know people will be crying out because a warehouse wants to use RFID on crates for inventory control.

    Oh, wait...

  9. Hilarious by Pave+Low · · Score: 4, Insightful
    All this crowing about privacy in a private establishment that has cameras covering every square inch of the property, that use computer databases and face-scanning technology to track counters and scammers, that have security everywhere because millions of dollars are passed around everyday.

    And also watched by the government gaming commissions closely, lest their gambling license get taken away or worse.

    And you're worried about fucking RFID technology in their chips?

    Casinos are one of the few places you should absolutely stay away if you are so paranoid like that.

    --
    SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
  10. Re:Ouch for card counters... by goofballs · · Score: 4, Informative

    card counting is legal everywhere in the states. the casinos in nevada are allowed to not let you play if they suspect you're card counting, but it's not against the law. this has been tested in the courts.

  11. Re:Ouch for card counters... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Card counting is ALWAYS legal, as long as there is no mechanical assistance...

    :-)

    But, most casinos don't allow you to play BJ there is they think you are a counter. I've never heard of a casino being 'advantage' player friendly. If they did, I can only guess they'd have the worst possible game set up...as far as dealer stands, payoffs...shuffle after each deal.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  12. IMO not like Gillette or Wal-Mart. by pherris · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Casino chips are generally meant to stay in the casino while Gillette or Wal-Mart sell items that are meant to leave the store. In theory Wally World could embed a RFID in all the shoes they sell and then profit from the data gained by tracking you walking around their stores or places that would like to sell your RFID movement data. I don't see the same problem with casino chips. A business (or casino) has the right to watch you while you are on their property. I'll give them that but tracking me past that is unacceptable.

    RFIDs can be used for good. My Ford Focus ZTW has a RFID chip on the key. If the correct ID isn't there the car won't (and shouldn't atleast) start. Adding extra keys and programming them is a simple task too.

    IMO this shouldn't raise the same concern that the Wal-Mart problem does, which could be a real nightmare.

    --
    "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
  13. Re:Ouch for card counters... by glorf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article talks mainly about being able to identify the chips as being authentic. I think that installing the equipment at each betting spot on the table to read the different IDs, lookup the dollar value in a central database and do the math to figure out total bet would be a little much. It would take some serious hardware to do real-time tracking of every chip in play. Considering that dealers, pit-bosses and the eye in the sky already are fairly good at catching counters (who can't take the casino for too much if they don't want to get banned), I don't think the ROI would be there for such a massive system.

    Having a few readers in the cage to verify authenticity before giving out cash in exchange, would be a much more efficient use of RFID.

  14. Ah, the party line: by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    File-sharing: Sure there are illegitimate uses for the technology, but there are a few legit uses. DON'T BAN IT.

    RFID: Sure there are a few legit uses for the technology, but there are illegitimate uses. BAN IT!

  15. Re:Ouch for card counters... by Gunzour · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was at the Hard Rock Casino in Vegas two years ago (during Defcon), and the dealer there was showing us how to count cards while we played. This is the same Hard Rock that got taken for huge amounts of money by the MIT card counting crew. The dealer told us that they will usually let you count cards, even if they know you are doing it, unless you start winning a lot of money. The reason: Amateur card counters tend to make mistakes that benefit the house. Unless you are really good at card counting, you may be better off sticking with basic strategy.

    He had a good point, but the next year I went back and they had installed continuous card shufflers at most of their tables. You can't count cards against these machines since there is no beginning or end to the shoe.