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Digital Rights Managment Year in Review

zjango writes "DRM Watch is a great source for the ongoing monitoring of Digital Rights Management issues and news. They've put out a useful 2003 year in review for DRM across several categories that Slashdot readers will likely find of interest. It is a look back at the year's significant trends in DRM technology, along with some predictions for 2004 and beyond."

204 comments

  1. It took him a *WEEK*? Wow, what a l337 c0d3r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    It looks Linus one *week* to write an application to archive his email?

    I could do the same thing in a couple hours using .NET and C#, Outlook 2003, and SQL Server 2000.

    I guess that is a pretty big statement about the power of Linux, and the talent of the people who made it...?

    1. Re:It took him a *WEEK*? Wow, what a l337 c0d3r by nickos · · Score: 1

      I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, but I doubt that the combination of technologies you suggest could handle the amount of emails Linus is likely to have built up since October 1991, or at least not in any kind of fast or stable way.

  2. DRM is wrong. by reub2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    20 years from Sony vs. Universal, fair use is going the way of the dodo.

  3. My prediction by FrostedWheat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DRM will increasingly cause problems for normal users. For those who copy the content nothing will change. Normal users will then begin to copy a lot more content.

    A few nasty laws will undoubtably be made when the govern ... er.. corporations realise DRM isn't working to keep there high prices.

    1. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "... corporations realise DRM isn't working to keep there high prices."
      there -> thier
      Please learn to spell.

    2. Re:My prediction by FrostedWheat · · Score: 1

      there -> thier

      I'm typing on an azerty keyboard you insensitive clod.

      Yes I realise that's no excuse for my grammer but it's the best I've got :)

      BTW, you spelled 'their' wrong.

    3. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, it was supposed to be a parody of the "grammar nazis" here on \., along with a little irony... only after I hit submit did I start to think that the joke was a little bit too subtle for this crowd :)

    4. Re:My prediction by rcpitt · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Hmmm... you stole my topic :)

      Harken back to the days of laser-drilled holes in floppy diskettes and wierd formats and such - and the backlash of the software users against the producers that in no small part ended up with the engendering of the Open Software movment. It put some vendors out of business because so many of their customers had such troubles getting replacement disks when their machines ate the original and put their own businesses at risk (or affected the game playing time).

      The customer is king - and the vendors (including the associations like RIAA) are going to have to get used to the fact that the customer won't put up with any problem that causes them to have to stand in line for a return or wait on hold for hours to get a new key or whatever.

      "Anti-piracy" measures don't protect against wholesale piracy - they just piss off the end customer.

      "I paid for this CD (DVD, download, whatever) and if I can't listen to the music on it whenever I want, wherever I want, with no hassles, then I'll either get an unlocked copy or I will purchase something else and I'll return this for a full refund and shout at the clerk while I'm doing it." I can just hear the CEO of a major retail store telling his suppliers that he holds them personally responsible for the increase in return rate on DVDs and CDs and the fact that 100% of his frontline people refuse to talk to irate customers anymore.

      DRM in the consumer world (not the intra-corporate - different story) will not fly unless and until the purveyors of the content ensure that the consumer not only accepts that what they are purchasing is limited in some way, but that the limiting mechanism never intrudes for the life of the product. This means for example, that it will be fine with most consumers if their copy is personally watermarked such that copies (if any) can be traced back to the original but if the copy is in the posession of the original purchaser there will be no repercussions and if it is in the posession of someone else, the original purchaser will not be impacted (Caveat emptor); and there is no automated way that the publisher or anyone else can know when and where the purchaser plays the work (or watches the video or reads the e-book or...) i.e. no monitoring.

      "Quiet enjoyment" is what they need to achieve.

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
    5. Re:My prediction by saskboy · · Score: 1

      Last year Intuit restricted the installation of Quick Tax to just one computer, using the activation scheme that Windows now favours. This year, they allow it to be installed physically on more than one computer of the owner's.

      I think DRM will take the same route, after companies find that the consumer outcry is bad for business, and increases production and support costs.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    6. Re:My prediction by zenthax · · Score: 1

      "Anti-piracy" measures don't protect against wholesale piracy - they just piss off the end customer."

      Maybe that was the stratgey all along. We all know DRM doesn't stop piracy, it will most likely increse piracy making it more mainstream. Therefore large corpration will go to captiol hill, be like "well look we ennacted all these DRM things but piracy is on the rise time for some new laws, maybe make copy right violation punishable by death?"

      Voice of logic in the goverment "FUCK NO!"

      Greddy Corprations "how bout 2 million in "contriubutions"

      Goverment "Copy right violation is fenlony punishedable by death, sounds good to us"

      Corps "How bout throwing in a anti-piracy initative thats lets us act as dictators and do what ever the fuck we want"

      "Let us thinkg for a sec"

      $$$$$$$

      "SURE!"

      Im starting to think about participating in that one way trip to mars right about now

  4. DRM here on /. by aredubya74 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Digital Rights Managment Year in Review

    Apparently, someone has patented proper spelling of the word "management", so /. invented its own hacked spelling. Fight the power!

    --

    RW

    1. Re:DRM here on /. by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Funny

      Digital Rights Managment is how I arrange papers on my refrigerator.

    2. Re:DRM here on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Digital Rights Managment Year in Review

      > ...proper spelling of the word "management"...

      Funny, the first thing I noticed was how the title misspelled Restrictions.

  5. "Dominated by Microsoft"? by Have+Blue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How could they possibly discuss online music and DRM in 2003 and not mention Apple and the ITMS? This may be the most significant product in the growth of legal online music yet released. It's far more popular than any of its competitors, and much more friendly to its users, and yet the online music scene is "dominated by Microsoft". I can't decide if they deliberately left it off because they hate Apple or if they're just stupid/uninformed.

    1. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably both.

    2. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by teamhasnoi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe they left it out because it is largely transparent to the user. I would guess that once your three computers are 'authorized', you will rarely see it restrict you under normal circumstances.

    3. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by jeffehobbs · · Score: 4, Informative


      Yeah, seriously. Apple's AAC "protected" files were the only DRM encoded media I bought last year, and probably the only DRM media most people bought last year, and it doesn't even get name-checked? Sloppy.

      For most people, I think the more restrictive DRM schemes will be like the advertising monsters of Springfield -- "just don't look, just don't look". Nobody liked DiVX (the circuit city kind) and it went away.

      ~jeff

    4. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by sirReal.83. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrong. They most likely left it out because they own an iPod and have already bent over to its DRM. I've got friends that do this - despise DRM but pay through the nose for an iPod and think they're getting a deal with iTMS.

      /me sheds a silent tear for integrity

    5. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Branka96 · · Score: 1

      Apple calls it FairPlay (newspeak), and suddenly it is OK with the /. crowd??? First of all Apple's attempt of DRM is ridiculous. It is trivial to circumvent. The content security has the elementary bug of having the content in clear in a buffer.
      But here is a test. Rip a CD with DRM in WMP. Now move the ripped file to a different computer and try to play it. WMP automatically launches IE and allows you to transfer your license (yes, there is a limit). No personal information is needed. Try to do the same between two Macintosh computers. You have to register the second computer with Apple. Including full name, address and credit card number.

    6. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, no.

    7. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Macintoshes can rip in WMP?

      Also no, I've register and unregistered a few macs. All it needs to play my protected files from iTMS is not my name, or my address or even my credit card number. All it needs is my AppleID and my password.

    8. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple's DRM... OH the humanity!!
      I hate having restrictions placed on a product that I have purchased just as much as the next guy, but I still use iTunes when I just want a song or two, and don't want to buy a used disc for $7 USD.
      For one thing, not only can I fill my ipod, but I can copy the songs to my girlfriend's laptop, and burn cds for the car and personal backup w/o any problems. If I don't feel like changing the track order on a playlist after 10 burns, it's a simple matter to dupe any of the cds that I've already made.
      I find Apple's "restrictions" acceptable, and so do other users, given how many iTMS users there are. With iTMS around, vendors are less likely to use draconion DRM measures which prevent simple copying, 'cos they'll lose out to Apple.

    9. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 1

      OK, I know this comment will be treated as blasphemy on Slashdot, but I really don't see a problem with Apple's DRM. They obviously did not want to restrict users' ability to make use of the files, which is why they allow them to be copied on CD or put on a portable player. They had to use some sort of protection to keep someone from downloading a file and then immediately and effortlessly sharing it on the Internet. Not only would it hurt their profits if people do this, but how could they get any record label to license their music to the service? This is not a bad balance between protection of copyrights and preservation of fair use. And if you're determined to use iTunes and get a DRM free file, its not like it is difficult to do.

    10. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      First of all Apple's attempt of DRM is ridiculous. It is trivial to circumvent.
      That's the beauty of it: It's not so intrusive that it prevents you from doing anything. If you need to make a backup for your own purposes, you can. Burn a CD.

      If you take that CD and rip it back to MP3 and share with the world and get caught, you face the DMCA as it was intended to be: You purposely circumvented a program/technology designed specifically to keep you from being able to violate a copyright and you then violated said copyright (a crucial point is that last step: the DMCA got it wrong when they decided it was illegal to even attempt to break the DRM, even if no actual copyrights where violated in the process).

      Fair use and harsh punishment for offenders all in one deal.

      It prevents filesharing programs from becomming saturated with AAC files from the iTMS, as people could just buy the music and stick it right online...hell you could set your Uploads folder to be your iTunes Music folder and viola. Thanks to the DRM, you can't just do that, you have to burn CDs. Suddenly it costs you money to pirate music...which in turn makes it less likely to happen. It doesn't solve every problem with the situation but honestly, I haven't seen anyone strike a more reasonable balance this whole time.
      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    11. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by billrosenblatt · · Score: 1

      Because the original poster only linked to one of the four year-end review articles I wrote. Commentary on Apple and other online music players is in the review of Online Content Services, at http://www.drmwatch.com/ocr/article.php/3294461.

    12. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Technician · · Score: 1

      Yeah, seriously. Apple's AAC "protected" files were the only DRM encoded media I bought last year, and probably the only DRM media most people bought last year, and it doesn't even get name-checked? Sloppy.


      You are kidding, right? I think many of those who bought Apple's AAC "protected" files are forgetting that they also bought a DVD (Macrovision and/or CSS).
      How soon we forget these have DRM protection.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    13. Re:"Dominated by Microsoft"? by Gonarat · · Score: 1

      Many people in North America (Region 1) do not realize that DVDs have DRM other than they cannot skip/Fast Forward through the FBI warnings (Disney tried forcing viewers to sit through previews at first, but relented after they got a bunch of complaints from irate parents and relented). The only people that regionalization affects in N.A. is Anime and British TV fans (Dr. Who for example). Most everything else is already available in Region 1.


      In the rest of the world the story is completely different, and regionalization has been for the most part, a failure. In Europe, Asia, and Australia it is not too hard to buy a multi-region DVD player. It is not too hard to get access to region 1 DVDs in those areas of the world.


      Regionalization, for the most part, has been a failure. DRM is not an issue only if it doesn't affect you. As soon as it does, a way around it will be found.


      --
      Beware of Sleestak
  6. Just a thought, not a lecture by ten000hzlegend · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm all for DRM in '04 maturing into say... half a dozen vendors such as Apple and even Microsoft, all with relatively different filetypes for distribution and end-user benefits

    I am worried about Microsoft though *No, not flaming*

    Windows Media is a robust system for music and video quality, being a Mac user myself, I use it regularly alongside AAC but the fact Microsoft in the last few months have used the Windows format as basically an excuse to try and monopolize on key aspects of the up and coming DRM race is distressing, Apple were the first company to introduce a fair play DRM, the first to provide a quality end user service, Microsoft for one are pushing vendors into Windows Media Format, making it integral to Longhorn and beyond, this not only encompasses the OS but any app ran on it, for me... I excuse that I'm not the most privvy to reading up more closely on DRM, but I do feel Microsoft are up their old tricks again regarding DRM

    1. Re:Just a thought, not a lecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Windows Media is a robust system for music and video quality

      Pass the crack pipe when you're done.
    2. Re:Just a thought, not a lecture by wfberg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Windows Media is a robust system for music and video quality

      In what way exactly? Its audio codecs add positively nothing to what's out there, its video codecs may be slightly ahead of the curve compared to standards-based mpeg 4, but nothing to sneeze at compared to DivX or any of the other high quality lowbitrate codecs. The default settings in their encoders encourage producing crappy "streaming" video files which don't allow for fastforwarding or reversing (unless you re-encode them), I haven't had much luck with the container formats (ASF and WMV files always end up giving me trouble somehow, even if it's just getting the right player to open them).. And don't get me started on streaming stuff on webpages which won't open in a separate player, way too much UI going on, again no ffwd/rwd - all other streaming video gear (yes, QT, winamp, and even real) are much better (though real has even more stupid ads embedded in it).

      It's no wonder that most films on kazaa end up as divx encoded .avi files (and the kazaahounds have the widest possible choice of codecs since they don't even pay any license fees), (S)VCD being number two (for interoperability with DVD players)..

      I can go for days of intensively downloading "funny movies" from weblogs without seeing a single good quality ASF/WMV, but see hundreds of just fine MPEG, AVI(typically DIVX) and MOV (yes, apple quicktime, usually sorensen) files.

      If anyone knows what's so good about windows media files, please tell me.. Seriously..

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    3. Re:Just a thought, not a lecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      the fact Microsoft in the last few months have used the Windows format ... to try and monopolize on key aspects of the up and coming DRM race is distressing,

      You're just now waking up to this fact? This is a pattern that Microsoft has followed since it's genesis. Standard operating procedure for Microsoft. If you care to do some research you'll find good reason to flame!

    4. Re:Just a thought, not a lecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its video codecs may be slightly ahead of the curve compared to standards-based mpeg 4, but nothing to sneeze at compared to DivX

      Dude. Take your finger out of that dyke and learn the proper use of english idioms. I'm sure she will appreciate it as much as us native speakers.

  7. DRM for all! by WebTurtle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, it seems like this issue is definitely not going away, despite what many might wish. Naturally, it will be implemented and at first some people will whine about the annoyances, but nobody will actually do anything to stop the widespread adoption of DRM (who could possibly succeed?).

    Looks like Sony and Philips will bring the noise with their InterTrust acquisition. What technology was InterTrust developing? How might it be implemented in electronics? Are we going to see some sort of digital signature type of authentication or encryption occuring between devices (e.g., a DVD player and a computer)? Or between a HDTV and a DVD recorder or PVR?

    --
    ------- "One of the joys of travel is visiting new towns and meeting new people." -- G. KHAN
    1. Re:DRM for all! by HangingChad · · Score: 1
      but nobody will actually do anything to stop the widespread adoption of DRM (who could possibly succeed?)

      At least try and avoid it. Do something, even if it isn't much. Open an account at Bleep.com and warpmusic.com, throw a few bucks at companies giving you a non-DRM'd better deal or shop at independent labels like icehouserecords.com . Voting for freedom with your wallet will do more good than you might imagine, especially if enough people do it.

      Download 10 bucks worth of music at each of those sites, money you would've spent on music anyway. Put your money somewhere it will do some good.

      Just like product activation. So far I've managed to avoid buying any activated products. Might not be able to do that indefinitely, but so far I've rewarded companies pursuing alternate strategies with my software $$$$. It may not be much but at least I can say I did what I could.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    2. Re:DRM for all! by WebTurtle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree in principle; I should be able to "vote" with my dollars for whichever technological solution I prefer. In fact, I can and do. However, the note of dismay present in my post reflects my resignation to the fact that no amount of voting with dollars is going to prevent DRM from being implemented by the major corporations like Sony and Philips or whoever. Sure, 5 years from now when ever consumer device is DRMed there may still be a handful of independent online or hardware based vendors offering non-DRM products, but it's going to be a rare thing and an uncertain climate for those vendors.

      Voting with dollars in the case of DRM hasn't been working so far, and there is no reason to think that it will succeed in stemming the tide of legislation or manufacturer implementations.

      One could theorize on the reasons for this, such as the fact that ultimately Capitalism isn't about doing what's "fair", "right", or "best for the consumer" -- it's about doing what makes a company the most money: and so far, companies perceive potential and imagined lost revenue caused by P2P etc. to be far greater than lost revenue resulting from a few idealistic Slashdot readers buying competitors' non-DRMed products or using competitors' non-DRMed services. In the minds of large corporations, those competitors are tiny small fry that can be safely ignored for now, or can be easily purchased or crushed later if they become a threat.

      I do not purchase DRM products or use DRM services out of principle, and I will continue not to do so, but I am skeptical of how long such options will exist and whether my "vote" will make any difference at all in the end. My guess is "not long" and "not much", respectively. However, as an idealistic individual, I'll try anyway.

      --
      ------- "One of the joys of travel is visiting new towns and meeting new people." -- G. KHAN
    3. Re:DRM for all! by HangingChad · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately you're probably right. Not arguing your central point. But, like you, I just gotta try, even if it's futile. At least we can say we did something.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  8. Just accept that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DRM is impossible. And stop wasting millions on chasing a rainbow that is mathematically, computationally, logically _impossible_ . There will never be a working copy protection system. News about stupid companies failed (or doomed) attempts to do this are just getting sad.

    1. Re:Just accept that by deitel99 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unfortunately this isn't the case. In future your computer will contain an additional chip (the "fritz" chip) which is able to regulate the flow of information only through "trusted" programs, OSes and hardware. It will recieve encrypted keys from the provider of the media which then allow it to decrypt the media itself. Assuming that you are unable to physically break into the chip, or to break the encrypted connection going from the chip to the media provider, then you will not be able to put the digital signal into a program which isn't trusted, such as a program to save the digital information into another file.

      I also thought it was mathematically, computationally, logically _impossible_ but then I attended a talk explaining how the system would work, and I have to admit there is very little we can do about it. Even if you are able to break into the chip and copy some media you don't have the rights to copy, you will be caught because the version sent to you will have your identity recorded somewhere within it.

      One of the more interesting things is that it is possible to get open source applications "trusted" so you can use DRM under Linux. However, if you modify a program, recompile it and attempt to use it, the fritz chip will notice and refuse to decrypt the media for you. Nasty

    2. Re:Just accept that by rhetoric · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Like I posted in this thread, DRM for AUDIO seemed to me to be impossible. There will always exist devices for recording and playing back analog audio. You can't stop someone from copying sound. Then I realized I'm a moron (you already knew that, I got modded +4 Insightful) and that DIGITAL Rights Management != copy protection. It's just that: controlling what you can do with DIGITAL audio. Which is quite possible and seemingly inevitable given the amount of control those who would like it implemented have. Once you're not able to play unprotected media on your machine, which won't boot if you install an OS without these restrictive features because of something coded in your hardware, then this is really possible. Trusted computing is just what DRM needs. So I thought.. well at least they can never achieve true copy protection with audio, thanks to the nature of sound. Here I don't think I'm wrong, but the future still seems bleak. They CAN "watermark," or "fingerprint," tracks, and make analog equipment ridiculously obsolete - ie quit making it, so people have to make their own or pay ludicrous amounts for old equipment - so for most people it isnt worth the effort, and unfortunately that's what I think will eventually happen.

      --

      "where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
    3. Re:Just accept that by starsong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is indeed scary, but ONLY if ALL computers sold incorporate the chip. In a free market, this would never happen, because people are willing to pay a little extra for a non-crippled computer. What's more scary is if it becomes legally mandated. Ever try to plug a DVD player into your VCR to watch a movie? You can't because CONGRESS (you know, the people YOU elected to run YOUR country) mandated that the gain-control chip in VCRs be intentionally flawed, in order to respond to the Macrovision copy-protection in the video signal.

      All Congress has to do is pass a law requiring "compliance" chips in all new computers. For a while you can probably get around this by importing stuff from other countries, but eventually they may simply ban possession of such equipment.

      Fortunately, you can do something about it; use the democratic process in the way that the founders intended. Make it clear that you and your community won't stand for any more of this bullsh*t, and make it clear to your congresscritter that they're out of a job if they don't listen to the people.

    4. Re:Just accept that by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 1

      Not really--the DRM machines are not crippled, they can play non-DRM content just as well as a non-DRM machine. But only the DRM machines can play DRM content. So from a purely individualistic, prisoner's dilemma kinda way, the DRM machine has more abilities than the non-DRM machine.

    5. Re:Just accept that by Mr+Smidge · · Score: 1

      It's also impossible to think of a number made from the product of two primes, such that anyone else couldn't guess the two prime numbers from which it was made. But you *can* think of one such that it's damn hard (this is the basis of PGP encryption). Are PGP-encrypted files easy to break into? Nope.

      And I bet that's what they intend to do with DRM. Make it damn hard to beat, no matter how much it pisses us off.

    6. Re:Just accept that by Tinidril · · Score: 1

      The key weakness is still that it only takes one person to crack the encryption to distribute it to anyone who wants it. DRM can only protect the content while it is in digital form, but the content is useless unless it is converted to an analog form that can be understood by your eyes and ears. Watermarking/fingerprinting can work to a small extent, but that can be overcome by averaging the results of a number of separate originals. Anonomous file sharing networks will do the rest.

      --
      XML is the best data format; unless your data needs to be read or written by a human or a computer.
    7. Re:Just accept that by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      [...] make analog equipment ridiculously obsolete - ie quit making it, so people have to make their own or pay ludicrous amounts for old equipment - so for most people it isnt worth the effort, and unfortunately that's what I think will eventually happen.

      Yeah, but the thing about unwrapping the encryption is it only has to be done once. Then it can be shared digitally, after being re-recorded. So the obvious answer is only studios can have "record" buttons. That'll foil the holdouts until their equipment degrades to the point they can't buy parts.

      I think we'll be off the planet by then, though. They can keep their rules.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    8. Re:Just accept that by rhetoric · · Score: 1
      Yeah, but the thing about unwrapping the encryption is it only has to be done once. Then it can be shared digitally, after being re-recorded. So the obvious answer is only studios can have "record" buttons. That'll foil the holdouts until their equipment degrades to the point they can't buy parts.

      You're almost right, but remember what I said here..

      Once you're not able to play unprotected media on your machine, which won't boot if you install an OS without these restrictive features because of something coded in your hardware, then this is really possible. Trusted computing is just what DRM needs.
      You can record all you want, but to play media you'll need it to be legitmately registered and thus subject to copyright verification, or whatever else is deemed necessary.
      --

      "where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
    9. Re:Just accept that by SiliBelgian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In a free market, this would never happen, because people are willing to pay a little extra for a non-crippled computer.

      Computers with a TPM (Trusted Platform Module) will be marketed to be better, not crippled, because they will supposedly make an end to virusses and spam. Somehow I think the companies selling computers will be reluctant to say it will also make an end to your personal freedom.

      All Congress has to do is pass a law requiring "compliance" chips in all new computers. For a while you can probably get around this by importing stuff from other countries, but eventually they may simply ban possession of such equipment.

      They might just do that. I even think it was Congress itself asking the industry to develop a DRM system that can't be circumvented that lead to the development of TPM's.

      --


      "Hell hath no fury like a hippo with a machine gun."
    10. Re:Just accept that by Alsee · · Score: 1
      Even if you are able to break into the chip...

      Once you rip open your chip and read out your personal key then you have total control over your computer. That is the point of defeating the system.

      ...and copy some media you don't have the rights to copy, you will be caught because the version sent to you will have your identity recorded somewhere within it.

      So what? Defeating Trusted Computing and other DRM systems is about enabling perfectly legal and legitimate activities. It also happens to make it easy to commit infringment, oh well. It's about enabling legal use, so it really doesn't matter if infringers get caught or not.

      Besides, they have absolutely no need to use Trusted Computing (or any DRM) to be able to code your identity into a file when they give it to you. They could easily do that with ordinary MP3's right now. They concidered and rejected that "solution" because it has already been shown to be easy to defeat that too.

      All Trusted Computing does is make purely software attacks impossible (short of a breakthrough in factoring large numbers). Trusted Computing just moves your key inside a chip where software can't get at it. However you still own your computer and you have absolutely every right to look inside your machine and read out YOUR OWN KEY with a microscope. They can't prevent you from doing that - they can only make it inconvient.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    11. Re:Just accept that by Alsee · · Score: 1

      In a free market, this would never happen, because people are willing to pay a little extra for a non-crippled computer.

      unfortunately they have taken a page from Microsoft's playbook - they are pulling an "embrace and extend" manuver.

      The new Trusted computers can do anything and everything current computers can do - that is the "embrace". They can run all regular software and they can use all regular files. There is absolutely no reason NOT to get the new machines. The new Trust chip is like a pair of speakers. There is absolutely no reason NOT to buy a computer that comes with built-in speakers - you can just pretend the speakers aren't there.

      The "extend" part is that regular computers (soon to be reffered to as "old" and "obsolete") cannot run any of the new Trusted software and they cannot use any of the new Trusted software and they won't work when you start comming accross more and more Trusted websites.

      The "new enhanced Trusted" computers will work with everything - all old software, all old files, all old websites. The "old obsolete insecure" computers will start giving you more and more error messages. When you try to install a program or surf to a website you will get messages saying you need to "upgrade" and that the problem is your computer.

      After a few yours you may even be denied internet access if you don't have a Trusted machine. None of this will be by law - ISP's will simply start installing Cisco's Network Admission Control routers "to fight viruses and worms". If you don't have a Trusted Machine then the router cannot verify that you are running approved anti-virus software and an approved firewall and it will simply refuse you a connection untill you "fix" your machine.

      Don't underestimate the threat. They have a very plausible plan to get these machines out there and they are advertising them as a GoodThing, like Cisco's supposedly "anti-virus routers" which actually don't touch viruses. The only way to stop Trusted Computing is if there is a massive public backlash. Thus far the public doesn't know squat about Trusted Computing, and the mainstream press is (maybe) just beginning to notice.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    12. Re:Just accept that by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      You can record all you want, but to play media you'll need it to be legitmately registered and thus subject to copyright verification, or whatever else is deemed necessary.

      Exactly. As I said:

      So the obvious answer is only studios can have "record" buttons.

      They'll defend to the death their right to keep you paying. You'll need special keys to be a publisher, and they won't give those out to just anyone. Only member companies, which means only those individuals or groups who can come up with the membership fee, most likely several grand.

      Meanwhile the torrents are coming down at 30KB/s... They've already lost the battle. (Yeah, DSL sucks get cable...)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  9. Take the hint! by anarchima · · Score: 4, Interesting

    2003 was a terrible year for copy protection for physical media. DVD piracy abounded, thanks to the selection of the weak CSS copy protection scheme, whose primary advantage seems to be low unit cost for the DVD player makers who designed it. Attempts to foment copy protection schemes for audio CDs were mostly laughable.

    People break these things because ordinary folks don't want them! I think the music industry should take a hint from their consumers, stop throwing millions of dollars at R&D for Digital "Rights" Management and instead try to work out a sustainable digital media strategy (i.e. ITunes and high-quality downloads etc.). How long (and how much wasted money) before they figure this just isn't going to work out?

  10. I prefer to call it... by kirun · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't like the name DRM, it's misleading. If all it involved was proper management of rights, no problem. However, it's a little one-sided.

    I think the name Capability Removal by the Author of Media Products, or CRAMP is much more accurate. Want to CRAMP your PC? I didn't think so.

    --
    I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
    1. Re:I prefer to call it... by kfg · · Score: 1

      If all it involved was proper management of rights, no problem.

      Oddly enough we've been managing on this front for centuries already.

      I intend to maintain Managment Ability of Systems Security Administered and Generated by End user.

      It's a cure for CRAMP.

      KFG

    2. Re:I prefer to call it... by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      How about:

      Sound/Song/Special Handlers in Trade(SHIT)

      Copy Restrictor and Protector(CRAP)

      Media Oriented Restrictions Enforcer Support Handler Intended To Harass End-users And Destroy Systems(MORE SHITHEADS)

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
  11. DRM = Digital Restrictions Management by CritterNYC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DRM is Digital Restrictions Management, and we should always refer to it as such, especially when writing OpEd pieces or online articles about it. Perhaps we'll have better luck than the casinos and "gaming".

    Oh, Lord, what should I do?
    Keep gaming.
    What?
    It means gambling... keep gambling.
    Oh! Righty-O!

    1. Re:DRM = Digital Restrictions Management by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I'd go for Digital Restrictions Mechanism myself. It just seems t flow better. And even if it isn't technically a mechanism, it's not as though it does a good job of management either.

    2. Re:DRM = Digital Restrictions Management by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Media conglomerates think that software which manages their rights is called Digital Rights Management software, but software that manages our rights is called theft tools or the like.

      I wouldn't be opposed to calling it Digital Rights Management as long as all software which helps people manage their rights is called Digital Rights Management software. DeCSS, for example, is Digital Rights Management software. It helps owners of DVDs manage their digital rights (rights to their private property, fair use rights, etc...).

      It makes just as much sense to call CSS a theft tool as it does to call DeCSS digital rights management software.

    3. Re:DRM = Digital Restrictions Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data Restriction Mechanism. I think that's a farily neutral term, which accurately describes what it does: restrict the transfer of data.

    4. Re:DRM = Digital Restrictions Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about the LRF Lars Retierment Program

  12. When are people going to wake up? by xyxy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the float-up-the-DRM-balloon phase, most average people aren't likely to react. And that's fine. Right now, all it does is enable the use/play of protected content. And, as noted many times in this discussion thread and in the article itself, it's an add-on to the OS. Don't want it? Don't use it. However, we've seen many instances of MS rolling an add-on into a service pack and then requiring that the service pack be installed for any future updates. It's then possible to enable the DRM package to restrict the legitimate use of non-protected content and/or software because the end-user won't have any other choice. MS will be holding all the cards. But I think that this will be their undoing. If an unwitting user was able to use unprotected content both with and without the patch, then can't after MS sends the kill-code to the DRM package, most people will simply say that their computer is broken. They won't know that the DRM software is to blame unless someone tells them. And if a user's computer is "broken" due to some patch that was installed for them by MS, you can bet that those people will start looking for alternatives. Add all of that to the bad publicity MS will get about being "Big Brother", and more and more users will start to think of alternatives to MS software. (Ok, they've already started getting that reputation on their own with the Product Activation snafu, but it certainly doesn't help their situation.) The first likely route an affected customer will go is to buy a Mac, assuming that there's $1500 or more to spend in the family budget. Another option may or may not be Linux. It very much depends on how much it has progressed in terms of instant usability (can the family make the transition with little- to no difficulty?), and whether or not money is an issue. But I bet that Apple might step in at some point and start offering it's own OS to upset owners of "broken" PCs as an alternative. That is, of course, assuming that they even want to release it for the ix86 chipset to begin with. My fingers are crossed.

    1. Re:When are people going to wake up? by Alsee · · Score: 2, Informative

      restrict the legitimate use of non-protected content and/or software

      No, that is NOT Microsoft's plan. They know that would cause outrage and backlash. They are stupid, but they aren't THAT stupid.

      Microsoft goes to great lengths to explain that Trusted Computing will place NO restrictions on non-protected content and non-protected software. It's standard Microsoft Embrace-and-Extend. They embrace all existing content and software it will all work fine on the new Trusted machines.

      Trusted computing only restricts the legitimate use of new protected content and new protected software and new protected websites. If you don't have a Trusted machine then you can't use the new content at all, you can't even install the new software, and you only get an error message of you go to the new websites.

      The Trusted machine is not crippled at all when using it with the old non-protected stuff. Trusted machines are only crippled when using the new protected stuff, but non-Trusted machines don't work at all with the new protected stuff.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    2. Re:When are people going to wake up? by JesseL · · Score: 1

      This is a plagarized post! See the original here. Someone pleas mod this jerk down.

      --
      "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
  13. What's Negative about this ? by leoaugust · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Negative Developments

    2003 was a terrible year for copy protection for physical media.

    What's negative about this ? I think this was the best part of last year.

    In related news, P2P file sharing seems to have picked up again ...

    --
    To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies ...
    1. Re:What's Negative about this ? by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Yeah, their "Negative Developments" section heading was pretty funny. You have to realize that the drmwatch.com is very pro-DRM.

      In this story they cover a consumer rights group filing a suit about CD's that violate functionality expectations. That is an interesting term for what *I* would call *crippled* CD's. They conclude with the dire warning that "If this lawsuit succeeds... could.. throwing the entire DVD industry in those countries into turmoil". Note that it would only be those implicitly stupid countries causing turmoil within themselves.

      Court cases we would hail as victories for our rights they refer to as "suffered losses". The use of "suffered" is clearly implying that the rulings were harmful. They refer to these three cases as coming together in a "perfect storm" - calling it a massive disaster and destructive. In the Norwegian DeCSS case they say he surely would have been guilty in the US or other EU countries - I think they imply he slipped free ("attempt to lasso a bowl of ectoplasm") because a of a problem with Norwegian law. The last few paragraphs includes advice that "DRM industry should hope that the ISPs lose" and accuses ISP's of nefarious motives.

      And just to eliminate and doubt on their position on DRM:
      We believe that ultimately [the Canadian system] are unfair solutions that are blunt instruments compared to the potential of DRM-related technologies

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  14. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Not having a job must make it easier for you.

    Go back to your den of filth, troll.

  15. The hardware front... by lenski · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Nothing in the article about how sales of "secure" digital media exceeded the sales of compact flash in 2003. The reason *I* am interested in this disturbing trend is the decreasing availability of media accessible to my open-source OS workstation.

    My Palm Tungsten has a SD/MMC slot, MultiMedia cards are becoming unavailable, SD cards are all over the place, and there are *no* open-source drivers for the restricted SD media.

    Naturally, I would *welcome* being wrong. does anyone in the community know of a way to use SD media in a Linux or other open-source OS context? I know the SD protocol seems to be available only under NDA and with some sort of fee structure, but it's possible that a driver exists somewhere.

    1. Re:The hardware front... by bhtooefr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do it with a bit of organized crime. Get a BUNCH of people from various countries in, then get the spec, and send the specs into international waters, then write the driver from there, and upload it to the least restrictive country possible. Why use many people? Simple - it's so that they can't trace it to anyone person. The part about international waters is so that you wouldn't get in nearly as much trouble. Now, you might have to run a profitable front for this to happen (enough to buy the SD protocol spec several times over, and buy a seaworthy boat and satellite transmission equipment, so your front might have to have it's own front), but it would work very well in the end. There is also reverse-engineering the protocol, which would actually fall under reverse-engineering for interoperability, which is legal under the DMCA. However, your driver would have to be closed-source to be safe, and coated in DRM.

    2. Re:The hardware front... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I driver exists for the Zaurus (Linux), but, of course, not opensource.

    3. Re:The hardware front... by jayteedee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would like to see a source that shows SD exceeding compact flash. I thought it was a good year because Sony is finally (partially) giving up their Memory Stick format and putting compact flash into some of their cameras and PDAs. Kodak did switch to SD in many of their cameraa, but also appears to be loosing market share - NOT saying a causation, maybe just coincidence, but I used to like the Kodak cameras, but only recommend compact flash for any device since it's been around and will be around for quite a while. SD cards are all over the place (just like smart media used to be), but so is CF and in much larger sizes/better prices. Spread the word!

      --
      Religion and science are both 90% crap..but that doesn't negate the other 10%.
    4. Re:The hardware front... by rcpitt · · Score: 1

      Last I checked the Sharp Zaurus allowed SD and it runs Linux.

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
    5. Re:The hardware front... by Mongr · · Score: 1

      Actually....the kernel that comes with openzaurus enables use of the SD cards for the zaurus. I don't think it supports any DRM, and basically ignores it so that you can use SD cards like a MMC.

      --
      -=Mongr=-
    6. Re:The hardware front... by Technician · · Score: 1

      CF has been dropped by many manufactures because much of the older memory cards are slow and power hungry. If the memory is slow or eats the battery, the device manufacture gets a bad rap for speed or power consumption. The newer SD memory has high speed specifications. (unfortunately they compare it to CF 1X speed not the new CF speeds)

      A lot of CF is has high speed (check a good photoshop) but it is expensive. (well so is SD) CF speed is a moot point for me as my new camera has a large buffer. I choose to use CF because of it's price and solid package. Unfortunately there seems to be format wars in the flash market. The newest is that tiny picture card that is even more expensive and smaller than SD. Many cameras use it. I think there is a lot of incentive to be the next universal digital floppy out there. There is a lot of push by the manufactures of flash memory to get products out using their format. They all seem to want a chunk of the secure memory for portable cell phone and music player market

      Even SONY who is trying not to die in the format wars has licensed it's memory stick to competitors to keep the format alive. That's quite a move for Sony who usualy acts like a printer manufacture and making money on the closed single source of specialty supplies.

      I made the mistake of buying a SONY digital camera once. Even the battery could be bought only from SONY. They were too expensive to stock up on at $40 each, and didn't last long enough to do a wedding.

      My new camera uses CF and AA batteries. The rechargable AA batteries are a quarter the cost of the Sony ones and last twice as long. I get 4 sets for the price of one Sony battery. Memory is cheap and can be bought from almost anybody. I no longer run out of battery power or memory. Spare non-rechargable's are cheap insurance for a longer than expected shoot. I learned my lesson on non-interchangable oddball parts. I will be hard to convince to make the same mistake again.

      Due to the format wars, many memory cards can't be borrowed from one device to be used in another such as a camera for a wedding/reception shoot. It's a shame there are too many incompatible formats.

      A universal card reader must now support 7 formats! This dumb. I'll be glad when the format war is over and one secure cell phone memory and one plain camera memory format remain.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  16. DRM Watch Blows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They are VERY pro-DRM. If you subscribe to their newsletter, you can look forward to getting regularly spammed by them (they seem to ignore unsubscribe requests).

    But props to them for sleazing a mention of themselves on ./.

    1. Re:DRM Watch Blows by billrosenblatt · · Score: 1

      We at DRM Watch are not "pro-DRM". We are pro "technology that balances the rights of copyright owners and end-users." Much DRM today doesn't do this, but we need to get there. We also do not spam, and we do respond to remove requests.

  17. DRM Devlopments by Iplaw-dc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fortunately, current intellectual property law remedies digital infringement allowing petetioners to cover the costs of litigating the violators, so long as creators secure these protections through the Copyright Office and or the USPTO. Having worked for major media companies, we are able to go after infringers as well as prevent parties from infringing upon our rights. One criticism of this process is that it takes a lot of people to preemptively protect digital content. Most companies using the digital mediums release products to millions of people all over the world and only have 20 lawyers overseeing the rights. Companies are relying on software to keep track of ip rights, still the legal minds making the calls and entering the information, which later is shared with thousands of internal clients, are taxed by the level of responsibilty and the lack of investment companies put into the number of people monitoring the IP assets. Hopefully, companies will create a larger budget in their legal departments and employ enough IP specialists who know how to protect the assets through the regulations and not simply rely on software/digital services to protect them, that is unless, the software can represent their interests in negotiations and court.

    --
    Jax
    1. Re:DRM Devlopments by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Great. So, either we get guaranteed fulltime employment for a couple of magnitude more lawyers or we get a bunch of half-assed, hokey copy and functionality prevention schemes. I'm not sure which is worse.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  18. Get the name right by rmohr02 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DRM is not "Digital Rights Management"--it does nothing to protect anyone's rights. For one, companies who produce software/music/movies have their rights protected by copyright already. "Digital Restrictions Management" is much more accurate--it does nothing in regard to the rights of the company, but restricts the rights of the user.

    1. Re:Get the name right by yason · · Score: 1

      DRM is not "Digital Rights Management"--it does nothing to protect anyone's rights. [...] "Digital Restrictions Management" is much more accurate--it does nothing in regard to the rights of the company, but restricts the rights of the user.

      DRM might bring good options too, although what's good for citizens isn't usually good for companies and there are even many laws that aren't for the best of the citizen. But, in a daydream, I would love to DRM-flag any of my personal data I give out to the next airline company or an internet shop. Then, when they'd try to sell or give it up to the U.S. government (which seems to reside everywhere these days...), they'd just get a nice dialog saying:

      "This personal information is digitally protected and it's only allowed to be used by the certified company $TICKETSOFTWARE|$BILLINGSOFTWARE. These restrictions can only be changed by the owner of the information."

      Of course, they could refuse to sell me goods if I do that but then it could more easily become a legal/constitutional issue. For example, European privacy laws are quite strict so using DRM to ensure their enforcement would therefore be backed by the law.

    2. Re:Get the name right by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      "DRM is not "Digital Rights Management"--it does nothing to protect anyone's rights"

      Digital Rights Managment is indeed a fair evaluation of DRM. It is a technology which *manages* (e.g. restricts in specific ways) the rights you have to play and distribute media.

      Whether or not you agree with DRM, saying that it does not "manage rights" is simply not true. The fact that the word "rights" is used does not imply that the technology grants you any new rights. For example, a document marked "limitation of rights" would likely not grant any rights whatsoever.

    3. Re:Get the name right by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Digital Rights Managment is indeed a fair evaluation of DRM. It is a technology which *manages* (e.g. restricts in specific ways) the rights you have to play and distribute media.

      Absolutely 100% FALSE.

      DRM has absolutely NO effect on your rights. It cannot grant rights. It cannot restrict rights. DRM has absolutely nothing to do with rights. You have the exact same rights no matter what the DRM does. You have the exact same rights if there is no DRM at all.

      DRM restricts abilities.

      All DRM inherently attempts to impose restrictions on the ability to do perfectly legal things. It attempts to restrict the ability to excercise Fair Use, and there are NO copy rights over Fair Uses (note that was two words: copy rights).

      Sure the intent of DRM is to fight copyright infringment, but the fact is that DRM restrictions are NOT copyright restrictions. DRM restrictions don't actually have any connection to copyright law at all. Hell, you can wrap public domain material in DRM.

      DRM attempts to restrict perfectlly legal activities - legally invalid restrictions.

      They are perfectly free to use DRM all they like, so long as you and I have every right to circumvent that DRM for perfectly legal purposes, and so long as you and I are perfectly free to help other people circumvent DRM for perfectly legal purposes.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    4. Re:Get the name right by rmohr02 · · Score: 1
      the fact is that DRM restrictions are NOT copyright restrictions
      Apparently you haven't heard of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
    5. Re:Get the name right by Alsee · · Score: 1

      If the DMCA attempted to directly impose the restrictions DRM impose it would have been immediately thrown out as unconstitutional. The DMCA isn't copyright protection, it i

      I still expect parts of the DMCA to be struck down as unconstitutional, but it's kinda hard to do that when in the 6 years we've had the DMCA it has hardly ever seen the inside of a courtroom, and you cannot appeal to strike down a law unless there is actually a conviction under that law. If anything is an illegal circumvention device under the DMCA the crack of the Adobe E-book DRM was certainly qualified. Charges were dropped against Skylarov and Elcomsoft was aquitted. That was exactly the sort of case the DMCA was designed to target.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:Get the name right by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Akk, mis-edit.

      The DMCA isn't copyright proctection, it is DRM protection. It attempts to impose by proxy restrictions that it could not constitutionally impose itself.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    7. Re:Get the name right by rmohr02 · · Score: 1
      I still expect parts of the DMCA to be struck down as unconstitutional...
      ...but until they are struck down, they are law.
    8. Re:Get the name right by Alsee · · Score: 1

      And DRM still does not manage any rights.

      DRM has absolutely no effect on or control over what is or is not copyright infringment.

      The DMCA even states itself that DRM merely restricts the ABILITY to make noninfringing uses , and implicity DRM also merely restricts the ABILITY to make infringing use.

      The DMCA also says Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.

      The DMCA has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT. The DMCA merely creates CIRCUMVENTION crime (and "trafficking" crime for communicating information that enables circumvention). You can infringe without circumventing and you can circumvent without infringing.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    9. Re:Get the name right by rmohr02 · · Score: 1
      Ok--it's still illegal, even if they call it circumvention instead of copyright infringement. However, it still reduces my rights by essentially undoing fair use. It may not say so, but under most definitions of fair use I would be allowed to make a copy of something I own, legally. The DMCA says I cannot if it would mean circumventing the copy protection.
      And DRM still does not manage any rights.
      >
      The DMCA even states itself that DRM merely restricts...
      I agree--that was my original point in this thread.
  19. DRM... by elFarto+the+2nd · · Score: 2, Funny

    Digitally Managing YOUR Rights...

    1. Re:DRM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Did you just forget to put in "In Soviet Russia" in an "In Soviet Russia" joke?

  20. Re:more like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who is that kid? You (or others) have been trolling that link for a while now.

  21. Continue the theme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BTW, you spelled 'their' wrong.

    In case you hadn't noticed, its spelled "spelt".

    1. Re:Continue the theme by FrostedWheat · · Score: 1

      In case you hadn't noticed, its spelled "spelt".

      Bugger.

      I'll get my coat...

    2. Re:Continue the theme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's spelled "spelt" if your IQ is less than epsilon

    3. Re:Continue the theme by SiliBelgian · · Score: 1

      In case you hadn't noticed, its spelled "spelt".>BR>
      And in case you hadn't noticed, it's spelled "it's"

      --


      "Hell hath no fury like a hippo with a machine gun."
  22. Windows RMS by MadMirko · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The development in the corporate DRM space that threatens to overshadow all of the above is Microsoft's release of Windows Rights Management Services (RMS) for Windows Server 2003

    Which "shadow" are they talking about? I'm responsible for a moderatly sized MS-network (about 1500 PCs and a 100-odd servers), and RMS is the next thing on my "to implement" list, because it will save me from clueless management people. We have had such a person kill (file system-)security by taking a file from a managemt-only file share and mailing it to the wrong distribution list. With RMS unauthorized partners will not (easily) be able to read the document.

    So, in my eyes that is where DRM might actually be useful and neccessary, I don't see a "shadow".

    What's wrong with me?
    1. Re:Windows RMS by sirReal.83. · · Score: 1

      That's the silver lining. You're missing the cloud. Which is generally bigger?

    2. Re:Windows RMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unauthorized partners will not (easily) be able to read the document

      that would be SEC investigators, FBI etc i guess right ?

      iam sure Enron/Worldcom/Tyco/Hollinger/Parmalat and the rest of those criminals are kicking themselves that they didnt use DRM on their scam

    3. Re:Windows RMS by jkrausyao · · Score: 1

      Currently the government can wire tap and record telephone conversations. If DRM protection of documents becomes a problem in providing access to government investigators, the law can be extended that would require these systems to retain access for law enforcement. The users of these systems could also be charged with obstruction if they do not provide access to the documents similar to laws that cover use of encryption for hiding evidence.

    4. Re:Windows RMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good God! Does Stallman know that a DRM is using his initials? I think he has them copyrighted under the GPL. Windows is ours!

    5. Re:Windows RMS by MadMirko · · Score: 1
      that would be SEC investigators, FBI etc i guess right ?

      Erm, no. I was talking about two technological partners (my company produces audio-/video-chips), that shouldn't have had access to a contract we had with another partner.

      Law enforcement could walk through our front door and demand access to the files, no lucky mis-sent mail required. Yes, files can be destroyed before they can access them, but that's with and without DRM.
    6. Re:Windows RMS by G-funk · · Score: 1

      Windows RMS? That's GNU/Windows to you, thankyou!

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    7. Re:Windows RMS by beowulfcluster · · Score: 1

      Does anyone else think they named it Rights Management Services instead of just something similar for the sole reason of making Richard M. cry?

      Imagine how he feels everytime he sees his famed initials connected to something like this. The responsible guy at microsoft is probably reading this now, snickering at his cleverness.

      Or maybe not *cough*

    8. Re:Windows RMS by Alsee · · Score: 1

      So, in my eyes that is where DRM might actually be useful and neccessary

      No, you don't need DRM for the situation you described.

      The difference between DRM and ordinary software is that DRM attempts to restrict what the owner of the computer can do. The situation you describe is on office computers. The company owns the computers and it can easily install "normal" software that uses exactly the rules you want and it doesn't need to pull any stupid "DRM-tricks" to do it.

      It's an ordinary programming/software task if the owner of the computer can change/violate the "rules" at will.

      It's DRM if you try to prevent the owner of the computer from doing what he wants to do.

      --------------------

      It's ordinary encryption - secure and pretty much unbreakable, if both people know their keys.

      It's DRM - totally unrelated to encryption, inherently flawed and breakable, if you are trying to give someone a key and the data while trying to keep them from looking at their key.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  23. Few People Pay To Have Their Rights Taken Away by metalligoth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As soon as people wake up to what DRM really is, they'll stop paying for it. There will be so many hacks out there to kill it (De-CSS/iTunes DRM) that it will become as prevalent and annoying as spam, until people wake up. Then it will go back into the history book filled with bad ideas, such as coal powered automobiles.

    1. Re:Few People Pay To Have Their Rights Taken Away by Loosewire · · Score: 1

      It will be about 4 months until the first stories of woe of Itunes DRM when people lose all their music etc....

      --
      Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
    2. Re:Few People Pay To Have Their Rights Taken Away by westlake · · Score: 1

      How many people do you suppose waste their time with hacks, when their DVDs and downloads play perfectly normally on their Windows or Mac based systems?

    3. Re:Few People Pay To Have Their Rights Taken Away by Alsee · · Score: 1

      There will be so many hacks out there to kill it

      Trusted Computing is pretty much immune to software hacks. You actually need to hack the hardware.

      The question is whether there will be a public backlash against Trusted Computing before 50 million people buy Trusted computers because that's all that was on the store shelves. If they can hit critical mass then we're screwed.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  24. what about iTunes? by unborracho · · Score: 1, Insightful

    how they failed to mention protected AAC files and the launch of the iTunes service is beyond me. How dare they call this a year in review and fail to mention iTunes.

    --
    "You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
    1. Re:what about iTunes? by billrosenblatt · · Score: 1

      The reason is simple: the poster of this article only pointed to one of the four year-end reviews I wrote. The one on content services, http://www.drmwatch.com/ocr/article.php/3294461, mentions Apple and iTunes prominently.

  25. Re:I prefer to call it... CRAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Drop 'Media'.... ;)

  26. YO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    (You're a miserable failure. Please die. thx.)
  27. Re:more like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could someone explain to me why the pig has fur? I didn't think pigs had fur.

    Genuinely curious.

  28. Crossed the chasm ... by burgburgburg · · Score: 2, Funny
    and made it firmly into the bowling alley. ?!?

    What the ...huh? I realize I haven't bowled in a year or two, but how many of them now have chasms that need crossing to enter? Perhaps this is an element of the declining league membership: with Americans in poorer shape, quite a few more are incapable of chasm crossing to even get into the bowling alleys. Perhaps this whole chasm requirement should be rethought.

    1. Re:Crossed the chasm ... by k4_pacific · · Score: 1

      Maybe its putt-putt bowling. Bowling would be much more challenging if there was a rotating windmill in the lane.

      --
      Unknown host pong.
  29. DRM for the people by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I would like to see applications of DRM used in keeping my personal information safe.

    Say, if I buy something online and request that they not sell my info - they are unable to.

    Or if I fly, I can be assued that my information is not given to secret government projects.

    Yes, the likelyhood and feasibillity of this 'crazy idea' are small to none, but I have yet to see a application of DRM that is not about content control for the big players. Sure there's the spam prevention that gets tossed around, but I can't see that being available until the $$$-making stuff gets good and locked down.

    DRM and anti-fair use legislation will mean the end of independent artists, writers and coders. Welcome to the brave new world.

  30. its Digital *Restrictions* Managment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful


    that's correct right ? better to educate the unwashed masses with the correct terminology than call it something its not

    it has nothing to do with "rights" and everything to do with "restrictions", the more you keep calling it the former the more MS/HP etc smile

    bit like the "patriot act" , call it a positive name and no one will oppose it

    1. Re:its Digital *Restrictions* Managment by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      bit like the "patriot act" , call it a positive name and no one will oppose it

      The worst part about the terrorist bit is these people are reacting to the US Government meddling in their affairs. So they meddle back. But the US is much more powerful, so invades.

      Is Bush's plan world domination? We're spreading ourselves a bit thin militarily for that, but he's got the legal part covered.

      So what's gonna happen when we decide we've had it with the corporations meddling in our affairs, and decide to meddle back (deCSS, et al)?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    2. Re:its Digital *Restrictions* Managment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Hehe... just call it a positive name and no one will oppose it... kinda reminds me when I was a kid. This is offtopic, but some may find it a bit funny.

      You see, I grew up next to a small fishing town in Florida. The harbor was just full of these bottom-feeding scavanger fish that no-one much knew what to do with. But there were sure plenty of 'em.

      Then someone got the idea of renaming them to "Sunfish" and put 'em on the menu at the tourist restaurants.

      That worked like a champ. Really boosted the local economy.

      Sorry, fellas, I am going to have to post this AC cause if the restauranteurs back home find out I posted this, I will probably never get a decent fish dinner again.

  31. DRM is the old Internet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    DRM reminds me of the early Internet. Back in the day, the network was built on trust. Slowly, crackers started to pop-up and destroy the bounds of trust. Now, no one trusts anything on the Internet and the Internet suffers because of that. It's harder to use now because of that.

    DRM is the solution to removal of trust. Before, the music and video companies trusted us to follow copyright laws. As time went on, the "crackers" shared the music with each other and the companies slowly began to not trust us. Now, DRM is coming in like encryption, passwords, and firewalls did on the early Internet. Just like with the early Internet, DRM doesn't do anything but hurt the people who want to use the music and video legally.

    Stop pirating.

    1. Re:DRM is the old Internet. by Fryth · · Score: 1

      DRM doesn't do anything but hurt the people who want to use the music and video legally.

      If I am legally entitled to own music that I can't copy to my car player, I am being hurt. Steve Jobs said that piracy is not a technology issue, it's an ethics issue. Whenever you have a bitstream, it's possible to copy it; making protection schemes is just going to piss everybody off. There's no sense crippling the technology and ruining it for everyone, even the people who don't steal.

    2. Re:DRM is the old Internet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even before the "bitstream" was available, it was possible to copy music. I've been copying music (for my own use) since the 70's. When it becomes truly impossible to do that, I simply won't be a consumer of store bought music anymore.

  32. Try to think long term by Simonetta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Each time that Slashdot has one of these forums on DRM I get dismayed at how few people write about the possible long-term consequences that DRM will take. By long term I mean twenty years at a minimum. Usually people just assume that in the long term there will be DRM on everything and every exposure to a piece of cultural entertainment will trigger a micropayment upon its view or interaction.

    That is probably a fantasy wish of the entertainment-media conglomerate corporations.

    I suspect that hard DRM (stuff that works like the media corporations want it to and can't be broken by users) would create a parallel 'pirate' media corporate group that would in the long term be absorbed into the other media corporations. This pirate group would provide media product at sharply reduced rates but delayed by months or years from the product's initial release by the primary media corporations. It would analogue the cheap neighborhood second-run movie theatres that played relatively new movies after they had been showing a few months in the larger first-run theatres. (This is how the movie business worked before the VCR boom in the late 1980's and the DVD boom currently happening).
    This idea of people 'stealing' cultural product by not paying the media corporations fantasy prices for product would just go away, like the idea that African-American music was sinful (an idea that until the 1990's was often expressed in working class European-American churches).

    An example of media corporations have fantasy prices is the notion that all recorded music product have the same price (such as $18 per CD) regardless of how long the product has been on the market or how saturated the market has become with this individual product. The idea that people are 'stealing' recorded music by the Beatles that is forty years old because they aren't paying $18 for a CD of ten songs is a perfect example. Especially when most of the 'thieves' of the Beatle's recordings have previously purchased the same recordings in 45RPM single vinyl format, 33RPM long-play album vinyl format, cassette format, 8-track format, premium Dolby re-release high-grade vinyl long-play album format, ect...

    There are lots of other consequences of longterm DRM that you can think of that excape the rest of us here, please post your ideas.

    Thank you,

    1. Re:Try to think long term by FrostedWheat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The biggest longterm effect will probably be social rather than technical. DRM is impossible, that's a fact. But if they can make anything anti-DRM seem 'dodgy' or 'illegal' then they begin to get control. What company will product non-DRM hardware if everyone is convinced it's illegal?

      It's starting already. I laughed out loud when I was told that region-free DVD players are illegal in the UK by a PC-World drone.

    2. Re:Try to think long term by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm beginning to suspect that the use of legality to address what are essentially pricing issues will backfire on the global media corporations.

      People will subconscously associate the use of all products from the global media corporations with being illegal as a result of the constant warnings from these corporations that viewing their products can in some circumstances be illegal. This will become even more true as media products shift from being watched in a public setting to the home setting, like what is happening now with DVDs replacing movie theatres.

      When new forms of digital media begin to appear in the next ten years or so that are not primarily created and distributed by the global media corporations (and what these media forms will be I don't know but I do believe that they will happen), the global media companys will regret that they spent so much effort creating a public perception that viewing mass-marketed media products (movies, music, games, ect...) is somehow illegal because this perception will eventually start to shrink their market and revenue streams.

      I realize that I'm not making a lot of sense. I must be well on the way of becoming a 'futurist'. If only there were any money in it!

    3. Re:Try to think long term by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, that is a great point. If a 'new breed' of media companies sprung up with lower priced merchandise, they would have an excellent selling point over their mainstream competitors. In addition to the lower price, they could assure consumers that they would not be restricted or get in trouble for use of the product. They would probably find it to their advantage to market the product in a way that allows copies to be made (while still cracking down on wholesale, for profit pirates).

    4. Re:Try to think long term by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      the global media companys will regret that they spent so much effort creating a public perception that viewing mass-marketed media products (movies, music, games, ect...) is somehow illegal because this perception will eventually start to shrink their market and revenue streams.

      Or, worse, society at large will regret it has become one in which artificial constraints has created people who regard flaunting the law as not a big deal at all, exciting, etc.

      When people come up with

      "Hey! I have a great idea! Let's use the legal system to help preserve my current revenue stream!"
      then the legal system cheapens and, in the end, society at large suffers.
      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  33. Somebody please, educate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somebody please, educate these people on how DRM is evil? I'm tired...

    1. Re:Somebody please, educate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, that's whack...

  34. My first contact with DRM. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somebody posts a link to a movie, a girl fucked by a dog or something like that. I spend half a hour downloading it. Then I try to play it - no way. .wmv, DRM-protected file, certificate revoked. Good bye.

  35. Its time for a war on DRM by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Informative

    The way DRM is going is to the hardware level. Its far too easy for people to break software DRM because all it takes is a few debugging tools. The best thing to do is to start getting into hardware hacking early - play around with PICs and stuff (playstation mod chips are PICs) and get to the point where your as comfortable as if you were with a software debugger. DRM is restricted by the 'if you can see it you can copy it' rule and eventually even the best DRM systems finish with an unencrypted data stream or an enable signal. Law is not going to be on our side so if we want our electronics free from artificial restrictions we are gonna have to fight it ourselves and make a mockary of the DRM industry. Screw them all before they start coming out with DRM chips that call the cops or blow-up in the users face if they are tampered with. And stop them before it becomes illigal to own so much as a multimeter without a license.

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. I think it's time to declare war on illegal file sharing. For if it wasn't for illegal file sharing, we wouldn't have DRM.

    2. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well for one example: DVD was designed long before filesharing and it has the most heinous DRM mechanisms that dont even have anything to do with piracy: region encoding so they could control the market, fast-forward/skip restrictions so they could decide what you could fastforward (eg to stick adverts in the beginning of the disk which i have seen done). And players that have the ability to switch regions 3 times and then your locked into one. DivX was around before and planted the seed of "you buy this disk and we charge you per-play" and there are plenty more systems that simply give the corporations more ways to rip you off or control what you do.

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    3. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone talks about DRM being used to protect music, but it's the other uses that are much more significant. No matter how secure the DRM implementation is, it will never be able to plug the "analog hole". Microsoft doesn't care about music piracy, anyways, they aren't losing anything from it. The use of DRM to protect software is a much bigger problem. Imagine having encrypted applications running on your computer in a secure memory area -- the spyware people are rejoicing at the thought of this!

    4. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it will never be able to plug the "analog hole".

      Sure it can ... you're assuming there that there will a. always be analog recording equipment being sold, or legal to use and b. that the analog data stream will be accessible. VCRs are already on the way out, casettes aren't far behind, and standard NTSC/PAL video interfaces will be the next to go. The FCC has already mandated that ALL television receivers in the United States WILL be digital, which means that the death of the old NTSC standard can't be far behind. When NTSC is no longer broadcast or encoded on DVDs, it will immediately obsolesce all the millions of video cassette recorders out there. The only side benefit I see is that those assholes at Macrovision will become gainfully unemployed. Once all data flow between consumer devices (DVD player, HDTV, etc.) is completely and irrevocably digital the analog hole won't be an issue anymore because it won't be there to need plugging.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      However, I agree with your comments on "secure" or "trusted" computing. Hardware DRM makes me very nervous.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    6. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent points.

      Using the analog hole for television is very difficult, but I think that people with access to professional video equipement would still be able to set up a camera to film directly off a TV. The analog hole for music doesn't take as much effort, though. Play the music on one device, record it on another, through a microphone.

      The only way to plug the analog hole is to restrict the way that *all* recording devices are used. I'm sure the MPAA would like to see camcorders installed with devices that can recognize watermarks encoded into movies, and not record those. Fortunately, the technological and political difficulties to overcome for that to work are much greater than those that DRM is facing.

    7. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by rcpitt · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The analog hole is not inside the electronics necessarily - it is at the point where the digital data is turned into something we 'wetware' processors (humans) can use our analog input devices (eyes, ears, etc.) to sample the stuff being shown.

      At that point another device can be substituted for our eyes/ears and capture a (admittedly slightly inferior) copy and encode it back to digital if necessary.

      Only once the eyes and ears are bypassed by feeding direct digital information into our cerebral cortex via teeny-tiny wires will there be a hope of eliminating this "hole" - and even then there is the chance that you could have a bridge put in (anybody got some really tiny roach-clips?)

      The analog hole also exists inside the system between the decoder and the display/playback but may not be easily attached to - kind of like the point where your digital cable box now hooks to your TV via coax or s-video and RCP plugs. Until the tuner/decoder and the display unit's video driver circuits are so tightly integrated that there is no single point where the video and audio pass close to where a tech can attach those teeny-tiny roach clips to snag the decoded signal, there will be an analog hole.

      The real point of all this is that as usual, the publishing industries are making it far more costly to view their wares for their customers - both in money and in time/frustration (at incompatible formats, licensing hoops to jump through etc.) where the "real" pirates who copy wholesale and actually compete for dollars at the cash register don't get hurt. Making a million duplicates of a DVD is easy - and you don't need CSS decoding to do it - you copy that too! Same thing with "encoded" CDs and anything else that has a retail package worth pirating.

      The bottom line is that to the consumer, the DRM stuff is sand in the gears of them getting the "quiet enjoyment" out of what they've paid their bucks for. The analog hole just ensures that there will be copies floating around for those who have had enough with trying to cope with the publishers' roadblocks to enjoyment - even for people who purchase the real thing.

      The war on DRM has already been fought - 20 years ago when the software purchasing public told the software vendors, who drilled laser holes and used screwy disk formats, to take a hike. The problem is that the current generation of publishers don't remember - or think that technology is going to help - it won't. The consumer will get their way because they vote with their dollars and just as 20 years ago, new companies will step up to the plate with product that will pull those dollars away from those who put roadblocks up.

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
    8. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      To add insult to injury...

      The pirated version is apt to be far more usable than the purchased version.

      When dongleware was all the rage, I would NOT purchase the software until I had a workaround for the dongle. Then I would buy one copy legit, which stayed in its unopened package, just for the license to run the software... but *used* the pirate version.

    9. Re:Its time for a war on DRM by anubi · · Score: 1
      I don't think I would go as far as trying to set up a camera to film directly off a TV. As long as TV's use CRT's or their derivatives, a nice strong signal exists at the tube's cathodes. I would just tap in there, and re-insert the sync pulses which I could easily derive from current-sense pickups on the deflection yoke circuit.

      And get the sound from the speaker circuit if I had to. Its not that hard to clip a current transformer onto the circuit and snare a sample of the signal.

      Yeh, it would take a bit of doing, but as long as resistors, capacitors, transistors, wire, and bits of ferrite exist, I'll be ok.

      Digitizers should always be around, as they are used for damn near everything.

      I admit possibly closed-source OS may find ways of keeping most ignorant of how to get the OS to recognize foreign hardware, but as long as there's open source OS around, we will have ways of interfacing. If DRM on proprietary OS gets out of hand, there will be increased incentive for the masses to defect to open source and leave business with a system few people deeply understand. But then, most business does not need flexible systems anyhow. That is mostly the domain of research and academia.

      Most of this DRM talk is for executives. It makes them feel a lot better if they are spending money. It gives them the illusion they are solving the problem while in actuality, they are just making stuff tougher for those who pay for things. In all things I have seen yet, Nature always seems to favor the most straightforward way of doing things - that is, the path of least resistance.

      Companies which clog the works with unnecessary resistance just make it easier for the competition to replace them.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  36. Wrongo... by ProtonMotiveForce · · Score: 1

    Fair use "right" is a misnomer. It's more of an indemnity against a copyright holder suing you.

    They are in no way required to facilitate or allow (technically) you to copy something. They just can't sue you if you do (DMCA not withstanding).

    1. Re:Wrongo... by Ralph+Yarro · · Score: 1

      They just can't sue you if you do

      Wrong! People can always sue you. Fair use just affexcts your chance of winning the case.

      Well you started it.

      --

      The real Ralph Yarro posts as Anonymous Coward. Anyone else is an impostor.
  37. Keep the initialism, just use the proper words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    DRM == Denial of Rights Mechanism

    gewg_

  38. DRM is a tough topic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think this requires a revisitation to the idea of information and computer ethics. Read some Norbert Wiener (applied ethics) and Albert Borgmann (information theory). That's my plan for the next couple weeks anyway.

  39. MOD Parent Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is what is scary about all of this is that they companies really will be able to encode copyrighted data tightly enough that it will become rediculusly difficult to decode. Yes, their have been mistakes and their will always be a way given enough will power but how much will power will we be able to muster to decode a single song much less hundreds of them that we might want to listen to in a weeks time?

  40. I've read something along these lines.. by rhetoric · · Score: 2, Informative

    In the float-up-the-DRM-balloon phase, most average people aren't likely to react. And that's fine. Right now, all it does is enable the use/play of protected content. And, as noted many times in this discussion thread and in the article itself, it's an add-on to the OS. Don't want it? Don't use it. However, we've seen many instances of MS rolling an add-on into a service pack and then requiring that the service pack be installed for any future updates. It's then possible to enable the DRM package to restrict the legitimate use of non-protected content and/or software because the end-user won't have any other choice. MS will be holding all the cards. I think you're right on up until about here, but sadly I'm a bit more cynical about what the future holds. Too few people are in control of way too much on our planet (and that's another thread :p). I read a very interesting article by John Walker, author of Speak Freely recently, and you might want to give it a read. I can say the man tends to repeat himself.. but the ideas he presents and the overall picture he puts together is quite frightening, showing how the traditional giant producer/many consumers model for information and everything else can, will, and already is being imposed on the internet. A big part of this is DRM, and even moreso trusted computing.

    --

    "where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
  41. They completely missed MS Office by Photo_Nut · · Score: 1
    They got that Microsoft shipped a Rights Management package for Windows, but they completely missed that Microsoft Office uses it to provide DRM for documents. I would expect this to make more waves since the Office apps were released in 2003.

    Millions of desktop computers around the world can now restrict your rights. The "Do Not Forward" email is just the beginning. Note however, that in order to use Windows Rights Management, you need a Windows server which hosts the document and authenticates you to receive an encrypted copy of it. The system is not flawless, but I don't see any competition for this "Rights Management" feature from Open Source.

  42. To paraphrase the Unix Hater's Handbook... by Ann+Elk · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Digital Rights Management" is to "rights" as "Lung Cancer" is to "lung".

  43. parent = insightful by rhetoric · · Score: 1

    All Congress has to do is pass a law requiring "compliance" chips in all new computers. For a while you can probably get around this by importing stuff from other countries, but eventually they may simply ban possession of such equipment.

    bingo.

    --

    "where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
  44. RMS == Richard Matthew Stallman by k4_pacific · · Score: 1

    It appears that Microsoft named their restrictive Rights Management Services (RMS) in honor of Richard M. Stallman, founder of the GNU project and champion of free speech and free software.

    Next week, Microsoft plans to leave a flaming bag of dog crap on Linus's front stoop.

    --
    Unknown host pong.
  45. Year in review? Let's see... by JamesP · · Score: 1

    Big Company: We just spent 100 Million dollars in this new DRM scheme...Finally no one will copy our CDs!!!

    Kid at home: Hey, you press shift or use other OS and nothing happens!!! Free to copy now!

    Everybody: DOH!!!

    --
    how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
  46. "Do not forward" email by k4_pacific · · Score: 1

    Why couldn't you just select all, copy and paste into Notepad, then create a new message, then copy and paste out of Notepad into the new message?

    Or if that doesn't work, do a screen capture of the email window, then use some kind of character recognition software to turn it back into text. Then paste said text into a new email. (Or email the bitmap as an attachment.)

    Does Outlook scan outgoing mail to ensure they don't contain material copied from "Do not forward" emails?

    --
    Unknown host pong.
    1. Re:"Do not forward" email by Tinidril · · Score: 1

      Your assuming that the copy and paste functions will work. With the proper DRM switches turned on, neither of those methods will be able to duplicate content from the protected document.

      Of course nothing prevents you from manually retyping the data, or taking a picture of the screen with your digital camera.

      --
      XML is the best data format; unless your data needs to be read or written by a human or a computer.
  47. Music copy protection by k4_pacific · · Score: 1

    Here's an idea on how to get around proprietary music formats (so you can exercise all the rights granted by fair use).

    1. Write a Windows device driver that looks to an application like a sound card driver.

    2. Have fake-sound-card driver actually write raw audio data to a file.

    3. Play protected file using proprietary player.

    4. Viola! CD quality raw audio data!! Convert to format of your choice.

    Implementation is left as an exercise to the reader.

    --
    Unknown host pong.
    1. Re:Music copy protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how did you get your hacked driver signed so that the OS will load it?

      Conversely, if you boot your machine in unprotected mode, how do you force the player apps that wanted a signed environment to run?

    2. Re:Music copy protection by rcpitt · · Score: 1
      You're too late!

      This article shows it's already been done. I think there was a pointer to it or something similar from /. not too long ago.

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
    3. Re:Music copy protection by k4_pacific · · Score: 1

      well...

      Currently drivers do not need to be signed. For the foreseeable future, there will still be a large legacy base of Win98, win2k, etc. Proprietary players will have to be made available for these systems too if they expect any kind of significant market share for their format.

      In other words, hang on to your old Pentium II running Win98. You may need it to back up your music collection.

      --
      Unknown host pong.
  48. The need for DRM... by asdf+101 · · Score: 1

    ... is accenuated in a system that incentivizes the theft of content in the absense of a cohesive offering made in terms of the nature of the content itself apropos the marked price demanded by the content packager (creator / distributor).

    I would rather that content packagers make a case for cohesive content instead of offering content wrapped in DRM that kills the "right of fair use".

    Think $10 hybrid DVDs including SACD media and band videos and live performances for that album versus what's currently available .. $16 CDs with vanilla stereo format music.

    If the RIAA makes a serious attempt at convincing its members to offer value for the money they charge, they might actually succeed at curbing their file-sharing scourge. They are certainly getting nowhere with their belligerent attitude as pillagers trying desperately to defend their right to steal -- both from the artist and from the fans.

  49. Just for you, AC... by red+floyd · · Score: 1

    IN SOVIET RUSSIA... Digital Rights manage YOU!

    --
    The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
  50. Post 9/11? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is offtopic, but it bugs me to no end.

    made particularly deep and yawning by the overall post-9/11 technology slump

    Yeah. Things haven't been the same since 9/11. Just last week I died my underwear pink by accident. Damn terrorists.

    .....

    Not everything is about 9/11! Stop it! Just STOP IT!

  51. Will they ever realize... by Oddster · · Score: 1

    That no matter how hard they try to copy-protect media, there will be many geeks trying to break the protection, and at least one of them will succeed?

  52. P2P+DRM -- a pipe dream. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > We can hope that once both sides finally get past the rhetoric, everyone will see both DRM and P2P for what they are and are not, and get on with the business of using both to their advantage.

    Not likely.

    The purpose of P2P is to implement the free flow of information. The purpose of DRM is to restrict that flow.

    Thus, P2P and DRM are absolutely opposite in their respective purposes -- despite the rhetoric of people who would love to develop a viable P2P+DRM business model.

    Yes, it's true that DRM files can be distributed over P2P. But P2P will always have the ability to distribute the uncrippled files too -- and crippled content doesn't stand a chance when it's presented alongside the uncrippled version.

    You can't avoid these hard facts. The reality of the situation is extremely bleak for the content industries. People who sugar-coat this situation are doing it so that they can sell their speculative business plans.

  53. True Names by JamesOfTheDesert · · Score: 1

    Perhaps we can start calling DRM by its real name, Digital Restriction Management, instead of just playing along and using some cutesy euphemism.

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    Java is the blue pill
    Choose the red pill
  54. DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1

    The purpose of DRM is to protect copyright, hence Digital Rights Management.

    1. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      The purpose of DRM is to protect copyright, hence Digital Rights Management.

      It doesn't doesn't make a damn bit of difference what the intent is, the FACT is that DRM manages restrictions that have little or no connection to copyright. The purpose of DRM is to manage restrictions, period.

      DRM restrictions DO NOT MATCH copyright.

      DRM is not protecting copyright when it attempts to restrict perfectly legal fair use.

      They can use DRM all they like, but I have absolutely every right to circumvent legally invalid DRM restrictions in order to make perfectly legal and perfectly legitimate use. And I have every right to help other people circumvent legally invalid DRM restrictions for perfectly legal and legitimate purposes.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    2. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      DRM is not protecting copyright when it attempts to restrict perfectly legal fair use.

      We all know what happens to copyright when "fair use" meets P2P. Something needs to be done to stop it.

      OTOH you are right as long as you're willing to follow the law rather than logic.

    3. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      as long as you're willing to follow the law rather than logic.

      I don't think you've disputed my statment that DRM attempts to impose legally invalid restrictions or that I have every right to circumvent legally invalid DRM restrictions for perfectly legal purposes. If I can circumvent DRM at will for legal purposes then DRM becomes completely powerless to prevent copyright infringment.

      I don't see any problem with that logic, but I invite you to dispute any of the above statements. Perhaps the only "problem" with my logic is that you dislike the conclusion that DRM is worthless?

      when "fair use" meets P2P

      Fair Use is perfectly legal no matter where it is. I'll assume you put it in quotes because you were not refering to Fair Use at all, but to copyright infringement. Copyright infringment is not Fair Use, and Fair Use is not copyright infringment.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    4. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      If I can circumvent DRM at will for legal purposes then DRM becomes completely powerless to prevent copyright infringment.

      Do you expect fair use laws to blast DRM away? I would bet that those laws will be changed to save DRM instead.

    5. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Do you expect fair use laws to blast DRM away? I would bet that those laws will be changed to save DRM instead.

      I have no doubt that there are people who would like to exterminate Fair Use, but what you suggest cannot be done. I mean that literally, it isn't possible. Congress does not have the power to create a law eliminating Fair Use. Sure, they can pass a bill saying anything, tthey can pass a bill saying everyone must join and attend some specific religion, but it would be unconstitutional and invalid. The courts would throw it out.

      Fair use is not a "loophole" in copyright law. Many aspects of Fair Use were in fact imposed by the Supreme Court because any law attempting to restrict those activities would be unconstitutional.

      If you think eliminating Fair Use is a good idea then you simply do not understand the nature of copyright law and the nature of Fair Use. Fair Use in fact serves the constitutional purpose of copyright, just like libraries in fact server the purpose of copyright. Consider that carefully - libraries are not some "loophole" in copyright law - labraries are an integral part of copyright because they serve the purpose of copyright. Libraries undoubtedly displace some of te market for copyrighted works and reduce copyright profits.

      If you think copyright is all about making people pay copyright holders then libraries would obviously seem to be destructive to copyright, right? A thousand people can can read a book or use a CD or watch a movie and none of them have to pay a cent. Can you explain why we don't need to put a stop to libraries? Do you have any idea why libraries actually benefit copyright's purpose?

      If someone does not know how libraries benefit the copyright purpose then they certainly do not understand the purpose of copyright well enough to call for sweeping and unconstitutional changes to copyright law exterminating Fair Use rights.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      I have no doubt that there are people who would like to exterminate Fair Use

      Exterminate? Frankly, i can't even see how DRM can block FU. Wanna record an excerpt of a song? Just plug a DAC instead of speakers (or use a microphone next to speakers). Want to use an excerpt from an eBook? Just key it in, or take a photo of a monitor displaying the page, etc. The only thing DRM blocks is an ability to make (in a second) a full 1:1 copy of the work. That makes DRM idea pretty fair, i think, given that the copy would be just a few clicks away from entering the realm of P2P.

      If present day Fair Use guidelines have something to say against it - those quidelines will have to be changed. Right? (IANAL.)

      You seem to imply that NGSCB that MS is busy creating is clearly illegal and MS' lawyers are unaware of a fact that their damn DRM stuff will be declared illegal soon after Windows users file a class action lawsuit or smth. I would guess that you're mistaken.


      BTW libraries have nothing to do with the insane levels of piracy enabled by the P2P networks. Have you heard that most of the internet traffic is P2P? I mean, let's not compare "apples to oranges" here. And about "purpose"... well, i think the law should establish a good compromise between the wishes of publishers and consumers. And that makes fantasies of copyright creators irrelevant if they no longer work in an age of the internet (and P2P). Anyway, if you're right and DRM will be outlawed... well, that's very bad, because P2P piracy is sure to reduce incentive for authors to create anything and consumer will suffer in the end. I guess.

    7. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      if you're right and DRM will be outlawed

      I NEVER suggested DRM was illegal. As a matter of fact my earlier post said: "They can use DRM all they like".

      For some reason every time I debate with DRM-advocates they constantly claim I am saying things I am not. If you project wrong and absurd arguments onto someone then it's very easy to dismiss them as wrong and absurd.

      Perhaps you've looked at the situation and concluded that the only options are "DRM" or "armageddon", but just because I'm arguing against DRM does not mean I'm arguing for armageddon. Last post I talked about the purpose of copyright - if I want to serve the purpose of copyright then perhaps you could give me the benefit of the doubt that I at least intend to get someplace good, even if you don't see where I'm going yet. We both want to reach the "best" outcome. It's just kinda hard to challenge assumptions and show a different (better) path without first showing that DRM isn't the path.

      My argument with DRM is that:
      (1) you can't throw innocent people in prison for making legal use just because they had to get around DRM to be able to do so.
      and (2) DRM happens to be worthless without exactly that sort of legal enforcement.

      Do either of those statements strike you as particularly unreasonable?

      Anyone is perfectly free to use all the DRM systems they like. They've tried it and it always fails. DRM is inherently flawed - if you give someone the key to use a file then they can always use that key to remove the DRM. The most you can do is make it non-obvious and inconvient to do so.

      The problem is attempting to "fix" broken DRM by passing laws to protect DRM itself. I never said DRM was illegal - I said laws to enforce DRM are unconstitutional. You can't imprison an elementry school teacher making perfectly legal (fair) use as part of a lesson simply because he went around the DRM to do so.

      It's nothing but a plan to abandon copyright protection and replace it with DRM protection and to give that DRM the force of law. But DRM protections do NOT equal copyright protections. The substitution is flawed and legally invalid.

      The only thing DRM blocks is an ability to make (in a second) a full 1:1 copy of the work. That makes DRM idea pretty fair

      DRM attempts to block that, but all it really does is make it non-obvious how to do so and inconvient to do so.

      The rights of copy do not extend to Fair Use activities. Fair Use does not infringe copy rights because copy rights simply do not exist there. The copyright holder has no rights at all in the relm of Fair Use and he has no power to impose/enforce some hypothetically "fair" substitute. He has no right to do anything if I go around DRM and make a legal "full 1:1 copy" anyway.

      If present day Fair Use guidelines have something to say against it - those quidelines will have to be changed. Right?

      You seem to have the impression that Fair Use is some random set of gifts copyright feels like letting us have and that copyright can just shove around or eliminate those lines at will.

      Many of the defined boundries of Fair Use were mapped out over the years by Supreme Court on constitutional grounds. The fact is that it would be unconstitutional for copyright to attempt to intrude across most of those boundries. Wherever Fair Use goes copyright restrictions are swept away. Copy rights vanish when they touch Fair Use.

      ------------

      Arg, long long post, and I haven't even touched on the non-DRM path.

      libraries have nothing to do with the insane levels of piracy enabled by the P2P networks... I mean, let's not compare "apples to oranges" here.

      I think understanding libraries' connection to copyright is crucial in understanding copyright and to finding a beneficial path forwar

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    8. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1

      Let's introduce a few acronyms, because "copyright" seems to be ambiguous:

      IPOC - Intellectual Property Owner's Copyright (C)
      FURC - Fair Use Right to Copy (this one is consumer's copy right)

      So, my original statement is: DRM's purpose is to protect IPOC.

      DRM happens to be worthless without ... legal enforcement.

      I assume that CPU/BIOS/OS level DRM (NGSCB) will be uncrackable, at least without a use of a special hardware - you won't be able to download DeNGSCB utility to bypass DRM. Such a DRM will be useful in protecting IPOC. If you say - "worthless". I disagree. Maybe "not 100% effective"?

      I NEVER suggested DRM was illegal.

      OK. Sorry. I thought that you think that DRM is illegal, because, if DRM works it will be capable to block not only IPOC but also FURC. And given that FURC is a law -> DRM is illegal. If that's the state of the law, then IMHO the law should be changed (to save DRM). That's what i thought/wrote in my last post.

      The problem is attempting to "fix" broken DRM by passing laws to protect DRM itself. I never said DRM was illegal - I said laws to enforce DRM are unconstitutional.

      Now i got it. You are right. But then - constutution sucks, because it does not take P2P into account... no matter how silly that sounds :-)

      But maybe you are wrong? Just because DRM-circumvention stuff is prohibited does not mean that you can't obtain [excerpts of] that copyrighted work for your Fair Use needs. The law might say: you shall contact publisher if some Fair Need to copy the stuff arises and they'll give you what you need... but DRM-cracking stuff is illegal. IANAL.

      What you wrote seems to imply that P2P "apples" are massive piracy and that library "oranges" pretty much amount to small and tolerable piracy.

      OK. You got me. I must admit that i wrote a complete nonsence. I should have wrote "bricks and birds" rather than "apples and oranges". So let me try once again:

      Libraries have nothing to do with copyright or piracy because libraries are merely lending/renting books. They do not make any copies of those books... unlike those nasty PCs that have that nasty "copy file" function which should be somehow blocked, and that "somehow" is DRM.

      I asked if you have any idea why libraries actually benefit copyright's purpose.

      I have no idea what you are talking about.

      Why? [the law should establish a good compromise between the wishes of publishers and consumers]

      That compromise should lead to the higest amount of the higest quality of works being created as well as the maximum possible availability of those works to the people. KaZaA reduces incentive for the potential authors to bother to become ones. DRM should remedy that. Laws should help DRM if tech is not enough. That's all. I doubt constitution was written with P2P in mind, so whatever it has to say is of no interest to me.

    9. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Sorry this got so long, chuckle. I cover alot, particularly that the "problem" is nowhere near as bad as the RIAA claims, but at the end I do offer a way to ensure the public will not suffer a lack of new creations. I think that danger is the only reason you've given for DRM.

      given that FURC is a law

      No, it isn't.

      The words "Fair Use" never even appeared in US law until 1976, and all they did was write down things we were already allowed to do without it being written.

      Hell, we'd have been better off if it *hadn't* been written into copyright law. We would still have those rights but we wouldn't have the common misconception that Fair Use is granted and/or defined by copyright law. It would then be obvious that those rights are sweeping aside copyright and that copyright law is powerless against them.

      They added that list to copyright law ensuring you can't be sued to protect those rights, ironically we now have people trying to use that list to attack those rights. They think we have those rights because of the list. They think we only have the rights included in the list. They think that because the list is written in a law, and because law can be rewritten, that changing the list can change our rights.

      You can't change the law "to save DRM", you'd have to change the constitution...

      constutution sucks, because it does not take P2P into account... no matter how silly that sounds :-)

      It's not silly if you actually want to argue a problem with the constitution. You haven't actually done that though. You merely said it sucks in some unspecified manner, and merely because it is inconvient for your attempt to "save DRM". If you want to "fix" a problem with the constitution to save DRM then you're going to have to specify what the problem is and propose a "fix". Really - define the problem and tell me how you want to amend the constituion.

      It's true the constution doesn't mention P2P, but it doesn't mention Fair Use either. What the constitution DOES say is things like Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press. THAT is what you are going to have to "fix" if you want to save DRM because that is where Fair Use originates. There have been court cases over the years where copyright law has in fact come in conflict with Free Speech and Freedom of the Press and other rights. When that happens the court has two choices - either strike down copyright law itself because Congress had no power to create such a law, or the court must state that copyright is implicitly constrained and doesn't actually exist there. Once it's proven that copyright restrictions CANNOT exist over a certain area then you don't need to prove some deep 1st Amendment confict to operate freely where copyright doesn't exist.

      The DMCA is a law trying to "fix" DRM. The DMCA makes it a crime to "traffic" in circumvention "tools". The "tools" are actually nothing more than information. "Traffic" actually means communicate. I can "traffic" in a circumvention "tool" through pure speech. I can tell you in plain English, step by step, how to "do" DeCSS and decrypt a DVD, exactly the same way I can tell you how to bake a choclate cake.

      Note that Congress does not have the power to imprison me for telling you how to make nitroglycerine (feel free to ask). They can only make a law against doing so with actual intent to cause a crime, or if I have actual knowledge that you intend to use it to use it to commit a crime. If they don't have the power pass a law against telling you how to make a bomb then how the heck can they have the power to pass a law against telling you how to circumvent? So "Saving DRM" means imprisoning someone for pure speech and violating the 1st Amendment.

      The DMCA also makes circumvention (descrambling) itself a crime. Anything a computer can descramble a human brain can mentally descramble, the brain is just slower. If a person knows the DeCSS steps then he can do th

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    10. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1

      I'm looking forward to DRM solution as to some sort of a "holy grail" of electronic publishing that should make PC a friend rather than a foe of publishers and authors.

      I expect DRM to increase the supply of e-books (and other bytes-based offers). I'm looking forward to carrying all my personal library with myself (e.g. on a laptop).

      And as you said - elecronic publishing is cheap - so DRM will actually increase availability of the works (because per copy prices of the works will be lower).

      There is absolutelly nothing wrong with P2P, in theory. If you want to distrbute you work for free to the world it is the cheapest option (no hosting costs). BUT! In practice 90% (if not more) of the P2P is piracy. Of course the idea to ban P2P is silly (free speech) and that's precisely why wee need DRM stuff. If DRM works P2P is no longer a problem.

      The only way (torture being not an acceptable option) to encourage the [potential] authors to publish their knowledge is to guarantee that they will be compensated for their work. The only way to adequately compensate for their work is to make sure the consumers will pay. P2P tries to omit the compensation part so it clearly does a damage to the interests of the consumers and authors. DRM is the savior.

      BTW i don't care about music. I'm worried about the lack of e-book supply. It's ridiculous that i have to pay for a pile of paper and S&H of that pile of paper. Something tells me that pile of paper is more P2P-resistant than a file. DRM to the rescue.


      You claim that law cannot prohibit distribution of software DRM circumvention tools because that would be in violation of constitutional right of free speech. I agree. But what about outlawing sales of harware devices designed to bypass DRM?

    11. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1

      OK. Let's pretend that i care about music.

      So, you say, P2P is helping small labels and new bands to become popular (just trow a few promo tracks to this free advertisement channel and see if they bite). Excellent.

      Now, realize that DRM would help them to earn [more of the] well deserved money in addition to making them popular. By keeping those other tracks (full albums that is) from making it into the realm of P2P.

      Therefore P2P + DRM is better for small bands/labels than P2P alone.


      BTW damage done to labels of any size due to P2P piracy is a bad thing. Right?

    12. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      BTW damage done to labels of any size due to P2P piracy is a bad thing. Right?

      P2P has increased the number of works getting to the public and increased the distribution of those works. Those are the twin factors in the copyright clause's purpose - benefiting the public. Thus far P2P has been a net gain in both.

      If at some point in the future P2P does come to cause an incentive problem and a negative impact on the supply of new works then we can provide incentive and energize the supply of works without DRM at all. Perhaps you didn't get around to reading my last paragraph where I said as much.

      I didn't spend much time on alternative means to supplement incentive because:
      (1) The UK has proven that there is at least one alternative and that it WORKS. I merely needed to show that there ARE good alternatives. Throwing out the abomination called DRM does NOT mean the incentive to create (and the supply of creations) needs to suffer at all.
      (2) There is no need for alternative supplemental incentives yet and I suspect there never will be. There are a hell of a lot of smart business people and I have plenty of faith in their ability to adapt to and thrive on advances in technology. They claimed radio would destroy the music industry. The claimed audiotapes would destroy the music industry. They claimed VCR's would destroy the movie industry. In every single case the end result was a boom in growth once they quit fighting it. The internet is a disruptive technology and disruption always causes growing pains, but those who adapt thrive and new businesses and opportunities bloom.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    13. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      The only way to adequately compensate for their work is to make sure the consumers will pay.

      False, and that false assumption is blinding you to anything else.

      First of all "consumers" (consumers consumers consumers consumers you sure hate the public and love consumers) don't pay a sent for radio. "Consumers" don't pay a cent for TV. "Consumers" don't pay a cent for the umpteen billion webstites out there. Supprise, tons and tons of creations given to "consumers" without them buying any of it.

      But most importantly UK TV is not paid for by through "consumers" or by commercials either. I reffered to this last post, but you seem to have not read that far or not understood it or ignored it. All of their TV programming is produced without "consumers" purchasing it and without advertizers. It is primarily paid for by the PUBLIC through government levees on TV's. No matter what happens it's always possible to pay people to create.

      I expect DRM to increase the supply of e-books

      The existance of the internet (and P2P) has not lessened the supply of books, but it certainly has caused an absolute EXPLOSION in the supply of written works of all sorts. There are several BILLION webpages and the new (non-duplicate) content on the web is growing at close to a hundred megabytes per second.

      Any and every catagory of literature you care to name - fiction, non-fiction, technical, biographical, educational, scientific, refference works, journalism, humor, medical, everything. Many works that never would have been created without the internet. Many works that were created anyway but would have never have been available.

      We are at the mere beginning of enormous change. I certainly hear people crying doom and destruction, but everywere I look I see no actual decrease in anything offline and I see enormous explosions of works online.

      I fully expect that embracing and adapting to new technology will bring it's own systems and incentives to the production of works. Even *if* we assume that new technology somehow brought a total collapse of incentives to create, there are still alternet methods to supply that incentive. There are other ways to get money to creators *if* need-be.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    14. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      First of all "consumers" ... don't pay a sent for radio. "Consumers" don't pay a cent for TV. "Consumers" don't pay a cent for the umpteen billion webstites out there.

      Of course they pay. They pay by buying crap that's being advertised (i'm sure you can track a part of that money that ends up with authors). But there is a problem - ad skipping, ad-banner blocking stuff. How to fix this? DRM.

      But most importantly UK TV is not paid for by through "consumers" or by commercials either.

      So, you think, public TV is all we need? You think some public agency is more effective/fair at distributing $$$ to the authors than free market? You think it's fair that the guy who does not watch BBC still has to pay tax to support it? You think it's fair to pay a tax on CD-R media that you might not even use to burn MP3s?

      OTOH this your UK TV example rises a question on how to implement a similar model on the internet... so here it is: 1. all ISPs must pay 50% of their revenues to authors (50% being a minimum, because i've heard P2P traffic is somewhere in a range of 70%), 2. ISPs hike up internet access prices 2x to compensate for their losses, 3. internet users pay 2x more for internet access... and are free to share anything they like on KaZaA for "FREE" :-). Is this the model you're asking for? Let's do a slashdot poll...


      The free altruistic/philantropic supply of web pages is not enough. I'm sure you're finding commercial info sources (all the books you can buy on Amazon.com) to be a more complete/up-to date, accurate, fine-tuned (edited) than that free stuff, don't you? You do acknowledge a need for those paid sites, do you? Rest assured that when micropayments will give rewards to authors of the web pages thus giving them a chance to earn something from their writings (instead of making them pay for hosting themselves) there would be even more supply of usefull content on the internet. And micropayments scheme will have to be protected by DRM, of course.

      Lets try basic arithmetic. Free content + paid content is more than just free content alone. Right?

    15. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      money that ends up with authors

      PRECISELY MY POINT!

      There are many different ways that creators can receive money. I never argued against creators making money.

      But there is a problem - ad skipping, ad-banner blocking stuff. How to fix this? DRM.

      Ted Turner, is that you?
      Going to the bathroom during commercials is theft! LOL!
      I guess I'm stealing when I toss the advertizing insert in the garbage pail before bringing the newspaper into my house. That advertizing insert is subsidizing the cost of my newspaper. We need DRM to make it impossible for me to do that. We also need DRM to make it impossible for me run off to the bathroom during commercials. Even if that means we need to surgically implant DRM devices in everyone's body to prevent them running off to the bathroom.

      So, you think, public TV is all we need?

      No. I repeatedly said that I fully expect the FREE MARKET to do just fine in ensuring creators get paid. New technologies open up new opportunities and new businesses. Just because the current publishing megacorps are afraid that they may eventually go out of business (assuming they refuse to adapt) does not mean other businesses cannot seize those new opportunities and efficencies to make a buck. And whenever they want to make a buck they have to pay creators first.

      Copyright restrictions and lawsuits were not intended to target non-commercial use. They have always been and continue to be supremely effective in ensuring that the profits generated by a work go to the creator.

      You constanly fall back on the absurd claim that the internet is going to exterminate payment to creators. Pardon the language, but BULL. You constantly fall back on that one falsehood to justify doing anything to save DRM, no matter how harmful or absurd. Even if some commercial uses are hurt by the internet other commercial uses will blossom and new ones will be appear.

      We no longer need "consumers" paying a umpteen-million dollars to dinosaur publishing companies for one album to get X thousand of dollars into the hands of the creator. Even if 90% of the "market" is "destroyed", that still leaves PLENTY of room for creators to still collect the exact same X thousand dollars.

      *IF* there is ever an actual failure of the free market to ensure the supply of works then my point was that it is always possible to provide additional incentive. I don't expect we'd ever need the governemnt to provide direct and primary funding of the production of such works, but even if we did it would be far far better than trying to to impose a DRM system and break the entire legal system to fix the fact that DRM is inherently broken.

      so here it is: 1. all ISPs must pay 50% of their revenues to authors (50% being a minimum, because i've heard P2P traffic is somewhere in a range of 70%)

      LOL! Your math is TOTALY WRONG. ISP fees pay for physical infrastructure and delivery costs. It has ZERO connection to how much creators are earning.

      It doesn't matter how much internet access costs and it doesn't matter what percentage of internet data is P2P. Such a plan would be about ensuring creators get just as much money to ensure ZERO lost works.

      Step 1: Calculate how much the creators are currently make. Forget the megabucks the publishing companies get paid, they only get paid for services they provide and with P2P we don't need to pay them to print and ship anything. So we are looking at a few bucks each for the 98% who are "starving artists", several tens of thousands each for "professionals", and a few million each for a handful of megastars.
      Step 2: Subtract any money they continue to make that is NOT HARMED by P2P. Thins like continuing sales of physical copies, and yes, even continuing sales on the internet at reasonable prices in non-crippled formats, things like live concerts, radio play, music in commercial establishments, and licencing for any other sort of c

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    16. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      Going to the bathroom during commercials is theft! LOL!

      You don't use earplugs to avoid hearing those commercials, do you? Your bathroom attendance frequency is lower than that of commercials, right? LOL indeed.

      Anyway, consumers' inclination to use commercial-skipping stuff is forcing TVs to embed commercials right into the content (product placement). Anyone is happy about that?

      Of course TVs can switch to cable/sattelite broadcasting. Or PPV (pay per view). And guess what. DRM is necessary to protect these models. E.g. encryption of the satellite signal.


      I fully expect the FREE MARKET to do just fine in ensuring creators get paid.

      It does. It has invented IPOC which works just fine. Need some info - pay for a copy of it. The more important/popular content the authors create - the more copies get sold - the more those authors earn. Free market 101.

      Truble is in thieves. Those folks who disagree with property laws. Who refuse to pay. That's why you see security guards in supermakets, banks, etc. and that's why you'll see DRM in a laptop near you.

      And whenever they want to make a buck they have to pay creators first.

      Not "whenever they want to make a buck" but "whenever consumer consumes the work". P2P kids are not "making a buck", yet they still are ruining the compensation model.
      Robin Hood, is that you?

      Copyright restrictions ... have always been and continue to be supremely effective in ensuring that the profits generated by a work go to the creator.

      1. And that's bad because? 2. GNU leverages copyright restrictions for something quite different.

      You constanly fall back on the absurd claim that the internet is going to exterminate payment to creators.

      Nonsence. All i'm doing in this thread is explaining DRM to you. I could not be happier with the free content on the internet. I'm not happy about "liberating" the copyrighted stuff. As i said: "if DRM works, P2P is no longer a problem".

      As i've said, my interest is to see more works accessible in electronic form. DRM would increase supply of works in electronic form. So the situation will be better than it is now. Now situation is deteriorating. Many authors are unhappy about P2P-enabled piracy levels and their depression will not make them offer more of their works. That should induce some degree of depression and give some food for thought to the P2P users too.

      I don't expect we'd ever need the governemnt to provide direct and primary funding of the production of such works, but even if we did it would be far far better than trying to to impose a DRM system

      You are suggesting that forcing everyone (PUBLIC) to pay would be a better idea than forcing only the CONSUMERS of the works to pay. I disagree. I say: Wanna a copy - pay for a copy. Don't wanna a copy - don't pay anything.


      You claim that there are myriads of ways to make sure creators get paid. Fine. DRM is one of those ways. Given it's being pushed by MS it's unavoidable. Whether it will succeed or not we will see. FREE MARKET will decide if the scheme survives. That's fine. Where is the reason to whine about it? And more specifically, what was your reason to respond to my "The purpose of DRM is to protect copyright, hence Digital Rights Management"? ... "Restrictions"? Yes, DRM restricts users' Fair Use rights to copy. "Rights"? Yes, DRM protects rights of the copyright holders. Dual acronym. I've disagreed with "DRM is Digital Restrictions Management, and we should always refer to it as such". That's all :-)

    17. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Copyright restrictions ... have always been and continue to be supremely effective in ensuring that the profits generated by a work go to the creator.

      1. And that's bad because?


      Apparently we are having a major communication problem. It's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

      Copyright law has always been, and continues to be, supremely effective in ensuring that the profits generated by a work go to the creator. Good old copyright law works just great at doing what it was supposed to do.

      Repeal the DMCA, repeal the NET act, repeal the SonyBono extention, and IPOC works great at ensuring that the profits generated go to the creator. It is pretty easy to locate and identify anyone making any signifigant amount of money exploiting your work, and it is extremely easy to win in court and seize those profits. There will always be a profit motive, and the creator will always get paid through that profit motive.

      Good old copyright law aint broke.

      I'm defending good old copyright law. You want to sweep away good old copyright law to replace it with something else, something radical.

      FREE MARKET... has invented IPOC which works just fine.

      The free market did not invent IPOC. It is imposed by law. An invention of law. Without it all works fall to their natural state, the public domain.

      IPOC is a good thing. Not because it benefits the creator, but because it benefits the public. Those who violate IPOC should be nailed in court.

      The issue is that I am defending good old copyright IPOC against radical changes and expansions of IPOC.

      "whenever consumer consumes the work"

      That is a radical revision of good old copyright's IPOC.

      Good old copyright:
      I can "consume" a copy I bought as many times as I like without paying, and that never expires.
      I can sell that copy. The "consumer" then pays *ME*, not the creator.
      I can "consume" for free at my local library.
      I can "consume" for free by borrowing my friend's copy.
      Entire classrooms can "consume" for free.
      In some cases reporters can "consume" for free, even to the extent of publishing entire copyrighted works for the whole public to "consume" for free. (e.g. Diebold)
      Scientists and researchers can "consume" for free.
      I can "consume" to produce some forms of derivative works for free, and if those who "consume" that derivative work have to pay anyone, they have to pay *ME*.
      I can "consume" to produce a backup copy for free, and I can repeatedly do so no matter how many times "the dog ate it".
      I can "consume" a work by playing it backwards looking hidden satanic messages, and the copyright holder is powerless to prevent it.
      I can "consume" by transfering it to any format of my choosing, space shifting, time shifting, or any variety of activities, and the copyright holder is powerless to prevent it.

      Your view of IPOC curtails or exterminates everything on that list, and all sorts of things I didn't list. It's your view of IPOC that is radical and destroys good old copyright.

      Your view of IPOC continues to be enforced even after the temporary rights given to copyright holders expire. DRM encryption doesn't suddenly fall off of a work when the copyright expires. DRM restrictions can't change themselves if the law changes.

      The original intent of IPOC really was "whenever someone tries to make a buck". It was never indended to apply to non-commercial use. The words "fair use" never even appeared in the law until 1976. There was no need, if you weren't trying to profit you were not infringing the copyright holder's rights.

      Copyright law easily and effectively enforces IPOC on commercial use. Copyright law is only "failing" because of current attempts to apply IPOC to private and non-commercial use. It doesn't work there because it was never supposed to work there.

      P2P kids are not "making a buck", yet they still are ruining the compensation model.

      Really? L

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    18. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1

      OK. Let's say music is going to be fine. But it's no reason to declare that authors of every other type of works won't be hurt by the DRM-less "sharing" fever.

      As a programmer i could not be happier that small businesses (shareware authors), who do not have resources to fight against pirates in courts around the world, will get better locks to protect their work. OSS will be just fine. Linux will boot, just in non-DRM mode. You will be able to dig under the hood as much as you do now (you don't have BIOS sources anyway), except you won't be able to access encryption keys. Anyway, DRM is a great chance to for Linux to kill MS. I mean, publishers should like a fact that Linux is thought to be more secure (for now) and, most importantly, DRM platform based on Linux means no need to pay MS tax. OTOH Windows is still the most popular consumer desktop... Instead of whining against DRM, OSS crowd should team with authors/publishers - that's the best chance in sight to gain an edge over MS in consumer market. IMHO.


      BTW i would be very happy to see paper books and even e-books to go extinct. I would prefer one huge super book instead - the internet. So how do we ensure that authors of web pages will get paid for their works? I think DRM/micropayments could be a very nice combination. Or DRM/ads.

    19. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      But it's no reason to declare that authors of every other type of works won't be hurt by the DRM-less "sharing" fever.

      I didn't declare it won't happen. I certainly agree that something should be done if/when that ever happens. That "something" should be carefully tailored to stimulate while minimizing any ill side-effects. I merely indicated I don't think it will be necessary because I think the free market will probably work itself out pretty well.

      OSS will be just fine.

      Trusted Computing effectively terminates OSS, at least whenever it comes in contact with the Trust system. You may *have* the source code, but that code is useless. If you change a single line - or even a single letter - then the program won't run. Well, it'll "run" just fine, it just won't work. chuckle

      Linux will boot, just in non-DRM mode.

      Yeah, Linux will still boot in non-DRM mode, but you can be denied internet access.

      The President's CyberSecurity advisor at computer conference called on ISP's to begin enforcing a Trusted system as a condition of internet access. All in the name of security of course: fighting viruses, protection the country against cyber-attack, etc.

      Cisco announced a new router to do exactly that - if you aren't running in Trusted mode (DRM mode) then they can't verify that you are running approved antivirus software and an approved firewall. The router then refuses you a connection, or redirects you/restricts you to a page telling you how to "correct" the problem.

      You can drive any color car you like, but if it's not black it then you can't pull out of your driveway onto the roads.

      You will be able to dig under the hood as much as you do now

      In Trusted mode (DRM mode) if so much as a single bit under the hood gets touched then it all drops dead. And when not in Trusted mode all the new software won't run, your files won't open, and you may be denied internet access.

      (you don't have BIOS sources anyway)

      Machine code is just another programming language. Any executable IS it's own source code if you are experienced in that language. I used to read and patch my operating system directly in machine code without any "source" for it at all. I admit that was a long time ago on my Commodore 64, but you can still do it today. BIOS machine code is readable, understandable, and changable.

      except you won't be able to access encryption keys

      Do you plan to put me in prison if I decide to take a microscope to my own property to see the key? If not then I intend to do so for everyone I know, and maybe go into business doing so for the entire public.

      So everyone WILL have access to that key unless you intend to throw people in prison for looking at their own property. Kind of a peculiar "crime". I have every right to smash my property with a sledge hammer, I have every right to incinerate it, but I can't look at it too closely or I go to jail.

      Anyway, DRM is a great chance to for Linux to kill MS.

      You mean it's a great way for MS to kill Linux. You might be able to certify A trusted version of Linux, but as I said, touch one line of the source code and it's dead. That completely exterminates the Linux development process. Kinda like if Microsoft development was frozen at DOS 2.7.

      OSS crowd should team with authors/publishers

      That comment comes from a rather amusing viewpoint - did you really not notice that the "OSS crowd" ARE authors? Did you really not notice that they ARE publishers? hehehe! Kinda like saying country singers should team up with real musicians :D

      Anyway, there's a few reasons the OSS crowd has never written DRM and won't, except possibly as hired guns". A big reason is simply that that it's been impossible. It mean that litterally. DRM is inhrently flawed - it involves giving someone the file and giving them the key and letting the

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    20. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      Trusted Computing effectively terminates OSS ... If you change a single line ... then the program won't run.

      All the OSS windows apps will run just as well as all the other "legacy" apps. MS does not have a suicidal habit of breaking backward compatibility. Those apps simply won't be able to access DRMed content - the new content that consumers will buy in encrypted form that will only be accessible via DRM-certified apps. That's how i understand things.

      The President's CyberSecurity advisor at computer conference called on ISP's to begin enforcing a Trusted system as a condition of internet access.

      He is insisting to break backward compatibitily with existing software/hardware base? Than he is crazy. I don't expect such a nonsence to be accepted by anyone.

      In Trusted mode (DRM mode) if so much as a single bit under the hood gets touched then it all drops dead.

      I guess you will be able to see those bytes just as you do now. Anyway, when was the last time you needed to change you BIOS?

      I admit that was a long time ago on my Commodore 64.

      Precisely. The last time i looked into a ROM was a long time ago on my ZX Spectrum. And i never needed to change that ROM.

      And BTW didn't you love the commercial market for C64 software? Would you allow me to assume that some effective DRM scheme would have encouraged more of that software to be written?

      Do you plan to put me in prison if I decide to take a microscope to my own property to see the key? If not then I intend to do so for everyone I know, and maybe go into business doing so for the entire public.

      Copyrighted stuff is not your property even if it's recorded into your chips (i guess). And i doubt you will find such a magic microscope anyway. Will public pay you instead of paying authors/publishers? Won't you be stopped due to copyright violations?

      You mean it's [DRM] a great way for MS to kill Linux.

      Maybe yes, maybe not. It all depends on how the DRM-certification process will be organized. And it's up to OSS crowd to work to make sure they won't be left behind the DRM bandwagon.

      You might be able to certify A trusted version of Linux, but as I said, touch one line of the source code and it's dead.

      Commercial software vendors will have to DRM-recertify all their new releases too. So i don't see how this can be some sort of OSS-specific problem. This only means OSS developers will develop the development versions of their software while using the last certified binary release. This can only be good because it will resurrect Debian Stable :-)

      did you really not notice that the "OSS crowd" ARE authors?

      I'm talking about authors who are willing to use DRM locks. For commercial software, info (e-books, sites, etc.), movies[, music]...

      Why would anyone white come to prevent themselves from doing what they want? To disable themselves? It just doesn't make any sense.

      Of course i was talking about writing software for commercial content creators. Only viewers of such a content (as well as the kernel) will have to be "DRMed". All other OSS will stay free to change anytime anyway.

      How do you gain an edge by offering a less functional less valuable crippled product?

      1. Authors will only release their copyrighted content under DRM locks (to prevent piracy). 2. Consumers are willing to access that copyrighted content. 3. You need DRM-certified software to access DRMed content. 4. If only Windows will be DRM-certified - only windows will give consumers an access to that DRMed content. 5. That would render Linux useless as a consumer desktop. 6. Therefore Linux must have DRM support that's compatible with that of Windows in order to be software-that-works (allows users to access DRMed content) as opposed to being software-that-sucks (is not very usefull to general public that is not ready to abstain from accessing cpyrighted/DRMed works). 7. "Enabling to access" is not "crippled".

    21. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Trusted Computing effectively terminates OSS ... If you change a single line ... then the program won't run.

      You "..."ed out "at least whenever it comes in contact with the Trust system". If the software touches the Trust system at all then changing a single line means the program will not work. If someone gives you a Trusted OSS program then the source code is useless. You can't develop it any further. Less software gets written.

      As for ISP's enforcing Trusted Systems as a condition of internet access, they can't/won't do that untill most people have a Trusted computer. The plan is that within a year or two every new computer sold will come with a Trust chip installed by default. Over the next three or four years the majority of all computers would be replaced anyway, even without any extra pressure to switch.

      I sure HOPE there would be a massive rebellion, but even the SLASHDOT story on these new routers ran with the headline Cisco Working to Block Viruses at the Router. ISP's will tout it as a new security measure. They simply drop the connection or restrict you to a page telling how to "fix" the problem. They won't let you connect to their network if your machine is "vulnerable" and a "security threat". You "pose a risk" to their machines and to their other customers.

      It's the ultimate extortion - submit to Trusted Computing or you get an "internet death sentence". The value of computers increasingly lies in their ability to conect to other computers. You might as well fall in a pit and die.

      I guess you will be able to see those bytes just as you do now. Anyway, when was the last time you needed to change you BIOS?

      I recently went into an EXE and patched the code. No, I haven't done so personally with the BIOS, but I do in fact benefit from the fact that I (or anyone else) could do so. If there were undesireable code in the BOIS then yeah, I'd go in and work on it, as would any number of other people. Such undesireable features generally aren't being placed in BIOSes because of that, there's not much point. Someone would fix it and lots of people would download and install that fix.

      The ability to FIX a broken/malicious product is a vital element of the free market in preventing the introduction of broken/malicious products in the first place.

      Would you allow me to assume that some effective DRM scheme would have encouraged more of that software to be written?

      Maybe. Or maybe not. But there is NO QUESTION that there were programs it would have PREVENTED from being written, assuming it was anything like Trusted Computing.

      >You mean it's [DRM][Trusted Computing] a great way for MS to kill Linux.
      Maybe yes, maybe not. It all depends on how the DRM-certification process will be organized.


      Definitly. It kills the entire development process for OSS, both the Linux OS and applications. IBM might bankroll a certification for a specific OS release, but it seriously kills development, and it does not help all of the other existing applications or newly written applications.

      How the heck can someone work on the OS when any change he makes means it won't work??

      How the heck am I supposed to create an application when it won't work until it's signed by the approval authority? And even if I could write it, how the hell am I supposed to release that application when it costs thousands (or more likely ten's of thousands) to get it signed by that approval authority?

      This is supposed to help get more software written? It PREVENTS software from being written.

      I write a program, you want to run my program, but you CAN'T unless it's signed by some dictatorship granting approval.

      So i don't see how this can be some sort of OSS-specific problem.

      You're right, it

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    22. Re:DRM = Digital Rigths Management by sadiklis · · Score: 1
      I write a program, you want to run my program, but you CAN'T unless it's signed by some dictatorship granting approval.

      I don't expect things to be this way. I think all the noncertified apps would run. They will only be denied access to encryption keys and decrypted data. I expect that only a small minority of all applications would need to access those DRMed keys/data (e.g. content viewers). Even in case of a kernel - only a small DRMed core of the kernel will have to be DRM certified (as well as the other "core" kernel modules); those kernel modules that don't need to access the copyrighted/DRMed keys/data will not have to be DRM-cetrified. Of course, in order to implement such a scheme it might be necessary to change architecture of the Linux kernel significantly. That's why Linus should be sitting on some DRM desing panel (with Bill), IMHO. Also, as long as some particular PC does not need to access DRMed content it would be free to boot any non-DRMed OS, i guess.

      how the hell am I supposed to release that application when it costs thousands (or more likely ten's of thousands)

      Kernel certification costs will probably be covered by some big company. Content viewers' cetification costs will probably be covered by... big publishers who would rather like to avoid paying some sort of "subscription" tax to MS. And the rest of the software (that neither needs to access DRMed keys/content nor is willing to get DRM-protection itself - like 99% of the OSS stuff) will probably not have to be DRM certified at all.


      LOL. A broken AND circular argument [that authors will only release their copyrighted content under DRM locks].

      Nothing broken at all. WinXP has become the best selling MS' OS despite all the whines on "activation" and "passport". I can bet that Longhorn will do just fine despite all the whines about DRM. And soon after a significant proportion of PC users is gonna be sitting behind DRMed machines - a significant portion of the copyrighted content will be distributed under DRM locks. And at that point users will refuse to buy "crippled" (non-DRMed that is) PCs that can't access that content. I guess.


      Anyway, it's too early to argue about DRM's impact because we simply don't know how it will look like when it finally ships. I personally don't expect things to be as bad as you picture them, because it's in their interest to make sure that market will accept their stuff. Threfore they are probably unlikely to try to push some utter nonsence. That's just my HO, so, as i said, let's wait and see. If it tuns out that you're right i'll be marching among the ranks of anti-DRM protesters; however, i'll be protesting against a particular "draconian" DRM implementation rather than against DRM idea in general.

  55. Get a clue by sadiklis · · Score: 1

    The purpose of Digital Rights Management is to protect copyright.

  56. Digital *Rights* Managment by sadiklis · · Score: 1
    it has nothing to do with "rights"

    Ever heard of copyright?

  57. If I can hear it, I can copy it. by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1

    There is not, at leasts for several years, any prospect of building tamper-proof encrypted speakers, especially given that audiophiles will want to connect their computer to their existing high-end amp/speakers which are analog. With some decent-quality analog equipment, one can re-record something played by a computer, re-encode it into MP3, and trade it around regardless of crippling (or if the OS somehow magically detects this, via encrypted channel between older, non-crippled computers). Hell, even if the speakers were encrypted you could bring it into a quietroom and record... the big hole in the system is that no matter how high the cost, in only takes one person to do this, and everyone can reap the illicit rewards over P2P networks. This is why DRM is impossible.

    Even if a new Fritz-ish law comes into effect that requires all new devices to have magic detector chips that make it impossible to dupe copyrighted content, and such chips can be designed, and they work, all existing computers would have to crumble to dust before this could work. Or the internet would have to be sealed against computers without these chips. Not only that, because you could encrypt it and haul disks around... either encryption would have to be banned, or the digital world would have to be entirely divided, with a perfect sentry at every gate, and hardware modding made illegal......

    At the point where DRM against re-recording from analog could be implemented, we'd have far, FAR more to worry about from Big Brother than uncopyable songs.

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    I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    1. Re:If I can hear it, I can copy it. by deitel99 · · Score: 1

      At the point where DRM against re-recording from analog could be implemented, we'd have far, FAR more to worry about from Big Brother than uncopyable songs.

      I've seen this demonstrated, where an audio track was played by a computer through normal PC speakers. Another computer saved the sound (using a microphone to make it clear the "audio gap") and was able to extract various bits of information hidden within the signal, including the person for whom that copy of the music had been made.

      Even if a new Fritz-ish law comes into effect that requires all new devices to have magic detector chips that make it impossible to dupe copyrighted content, and such chips can be designed, and they work, all existing computers would have to crumble to dust before this could work.

      Also wrong, our current computers will only be able to play DRMed media if a crack is written for those computers, and if you then redistribute the copy you bought using your cracked software then your identity can be extracted from the file. Anyone caught redistributing media will be easily trackable, hence they will never do it in the first place.

  58. Digital "Rights" Management? I think not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is not about rights (consumers' or publishers'). This is about control. This is about not allowing you all you can with the technology at your disposal. It's also a way to position the industry so it can go back to dictating price increases.

    At the same time, piracy goes on full steam. They are not after pirates, they are after legitimate users and their "unauthorized uses".

  59. DRM is inherently impossible. by Alsee · · Score: 2, Interesting

    DRM is nothing but an attempt to make it inconvient for people to know their own key.

    Even Microsoft repeatedly states on its website that even Trusted Computing cannot hope to enforce DRM if the owner of the computer feels like altering the hardware. The best solution is to rip open a chip and read out your key. That gives you total control over your computer.

    You can't stop the owner of a machine from opening it up and reading out his key. He owns it and he has absolutely every right to do so.

    They are perfectly free to use all the DRM they like so long as I have every right to circumvent that DRM for legal purposes, and for me to help other people circumvent DRM for legal purposes.

    nobody will actually do anything to stop the widespread adoption of DRM

    Mere informing people about it can have a signifigant effect. I have caught multiple projects based on Trusted Computing that have actually been making signifigant effort to hide that fact that thet are connected to Trusted Computing because most people who know about Trusted Computing are rebelling about it. Intel's attempt to put ID numbers inside every CPU a few years ago was killed by public backlash against it.

    A good example of a project hiding it's Trusted Computing connection is Cisco's recently announced Network Admission Control routers. Cisco's press release on them touts it an an anti-virus anti-worm system, and several news sites (including Slashdot) ran stories on Cisco "delaring war on worms" and "blocking viruses at the router". However people generally express outrage when they learn that what these routers actually do is to deny you an internet connection unless you submit to Trusted Computing. The router uses Trusted Computing to verify that you are running specific software such as approved anti-virus scanner and firewall (thus the "anti-virus" claims). If you aren't Trusted Computing-compliant then it can simply refuse to let you connect to the internet at all.

    Perhaps you don't think "informing people" counts as doing anything. Well I for one am QUITE interested in working on the hardware/software projects required to liberate a computer from Trusted Computing restrictions, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Working out how to rip open a chip to read out the key and programming the software required to emulate the system (and control/override that system).

    I think a great way to get such a project (and perhaps business) started would be to first target the law-enforcement market. No one can possibly object to aiding law-enforcment in recovering encrypted data/evidence from computers seized from criminals and to control/override software on computers seized from criminals. Go ahead, lets see someone try to paint such a project as a bunch of "evil hackers", chuckle.

    Once you've figured out how to routinely extract keys from chips, and once you've developed the required software to give the owner control over the system then you can sell such services and software to anyone and everyone. It would be a sort of "upgrade service" giving you full control of your computer.

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    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    1. Re:DRM is inherently impossible. by WebTurtle · · Score: 1

      True, informing people is an important component in getting anyone to do anything about any issue. Will the general public ever understand waht Trusted Computing is? I doubt it. Will a small population of technology specialists understand it? Of course. Can those technology specialists mount a campaign to educate the media who can then educate the general public, or educate the legislators who might change preserve the fair use rights of end users? Maybe, but it will be a hard battle that is by no means guaranteed. That's all I'm saying. Should we just give up without a fight? Hell no. But be under no illusions that simply because we believe our cause to be just, the powers that be will give up on their money-grubbing schemes to limit the freedoms of end-users. It may be that we win in the end. It may be we lose. Only time will tell. The pessimist in me suspects that we will be on the short end of the stick, but is willing to fight anyway.

      With regard to your law enforcement example, I think it's a good idea, but only friendly legislators/legislation will give everyone the right to the special data recovery techniques you so idealistically developed for the government. Why should they make it legal for Joe Enduser to have access to decryption technology just because the government does?

      I say continue to develop hardware/software projects that liberate us from Trusted Computing. Such efforts will benefit all members of society. Good luck.

      --
      ------- "One of the joys of travel is visiting new towns and meeting new people." -- G. KHAN
    2. Re:DRM is inherently impossible. by Alsee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Will the general public ever understand waht Trusted Computing is? I doubt it.

      The key is reducing it to a level the non-tech public can understand:

      Give me my key!

      That can be backed up by a few simple points. It is your key, you have a right to it. If you have your key then you control your computer. Knowing your key cannot reduce your computer's ability to protect you in any way. If you don't know your key then people can turn your computer against you (lock-ins / lock-outs).

      All very easy and very understandable. THAT is the message we need to get to the mainstream media.

      The EFF goofed in it's opposition to Trusted Computing when it demanded an "owner override" so that the user can "lie". Owner override is too complex an issue and being able to "lie" sounds like an evil thing. If the owner knew his key (PrivEK) then he could just download an "owner override" program.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    3. Re:DRM is inherently impossible. by WebTurtle · · Score: 1

      Okay, I see your point, but it just seems to me that even if the owner knows his key, the owner override program would be considered illegal under the DMCA or some such crap.

      --
      ------- "One of the joys of travel is visiting new towns and meeting new people." -- G. KHAN
    4. Re:DRM is inherently impossible. by Alsee · · Score: 1

      illegal under the DMCA or some such crap.

      I'm sure the RIAA or someone would try to make that argument, but I don't think it would actually fly. Those promoting Trusted Computing have gone to great lengths to state that the Trusted Computing system is not itself a DRM system. They say someone else might run DRM on top of it. Also the DMCA only applies to a system that is actually protecting copyrighted materials. When you buy a Trusted Computer the system isn't protecting anything.

      So they might be able to nail you if you take this key and this software and proceed circumvent a DRM system, but I don't think they can use the DMCA to block a business extracting keys or providing generic override software. At that point they really wouldn't be much better off than they are now. The owner would still get any benefits of the new hardware, but it would be useless for DRM.

      -

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  60. Re:Ever try to plug a DVD player into your VCR by Technician · · Score: 1

    Ever try to plug a DVD player into your VCR to watch a movie?

    Yes. I found some VCR's are cheap and have the AGC in the video line from the tuner/video in. These mess up the video for you. Other VCR's have the AGC in the record circuit. The E-E (electronics-electronics) circuit does not have AGC. This passes the video through the VCR out to the TV unaltered, but still messes up the recording if you attempt it as required by law. Read the reviews. Let the buyer beware.

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    The truth shall set you free!
  61. That's not DRM... by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1

    ... that's watermarking. Watermarking technology has more potential in theory, but I think in practice it will also be cracked. But my point is that someone will either buy a song in CD form with cash, or break the watermarking, break the DRM (the stuff that prevents you from copying the song) using some method, an analog gap if necessary, and get it into MP3 form or the like on an uncrippled computer. Then there's little that Big Brother or Big Media can due to stop him from sharing it all over with a mesh like Publius or Freenet, other than outlawing encryption.

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    I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  62. I wonder if thieves will call themselves by rbird76 · · Score: 1

    "physical rights managers" (PRMs).

    DRM disables me from doing a variety of things to which the gov't has decided that I possess the right to do. The "rights" DRM manages are rights that do not belong to those "managing" them in the first place. In some cases, you will have to pay to do what is within your rights (and to pay to whom they do not belong and have never belonged), while others will never be yours (though they are legally so). The rights to goods that I own (my computers and peripherals) are taken away by DRM.

    If DRM is about the protection of the rights of copyright holders, then theft should be considered the protection of someone else's right to manage your physical property. Oh wait, they don't have that right? Oops, my bad...

  63. Re:more like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He looks South African.