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IBM Patents Method For Paying Open Source Workers

Frequanaut writes "Oh, the bitter, bitter irony. According to The Inquirer, in a strange move, IBM has patented a method for paying open source volunteers. By the way, if the future of software development is open source, how will anyone get paid when only IBM can do it?" The Inquirer quizzically notes, with regard to this patent: "It may be an ingenious way of paying open source developers and volunteers, Big Blue, but can it really be described as an invention?"

44 of 426 comments (clear)

  1. Note to Recent Grads by fine09 · · Score: 5, Funny

    One more reason you should take a job with McDonalds.

    1. Re:Note to Recent Grads by JargonScott · · Score: 5, Funny

      When my brother graduated from undergrad, an older prof. at the gym he went to asked what his degree was. "Psychology", he answered. The old prof. said "Oh, that's nice. I hear Wendy's is hiring."

      --
      Nuke Gay Whales for Jesus.
    2. Re:Note to Recent Grads by fine09 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yup, Funny thing is that I was a recent Computer Science Grad that was working at Wendy's up until this week. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride to pay the bills until you find your place. To end on a good note, I am now just starting my dream job (computer programmer) at a fun and interesting company

    3. Re:Note to Recent Grads by GoofyBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good for you.

      Sometimes swallowing your pride is the best thing to do in the long term.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    4. Re:Note to Recent Grads by kevcol · · Score: 4, Funny

      Would you rather swallow your pride or a Wendy's Classic Triple Cheese Combo with Biggie Fries and medium beverage?

    5. Re:Note to Recent Grads by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not to get you down or anything, but it's really not wise to describe something as your "dream job" until you've been there for at least a couple of years. A "dream" job can quickly become a nightmare.

      I've seen many, many people get jobs they thought would be their dream jobs, only to become quickly disillusioned and depressed when the job did not live up to the high standards they had set for it in their own mind.

      Anyway, congratulations on the new job, and I hope it ends up being as good as you hope.

  2. Wow. by njfuzzy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Talk about a development likely to elicit mixed feelings.

    --
    My Photography - http://ian-x.com
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    1. Re:Wow. by njfuzzy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no point in applying for a patent if you are going to put it in the public domain. Doing that dissolves the patent. On the other hand, making it available under a free license might make sense. They control who gets it, but basically opens it up. That would probably work.

      --
      My Photography - http://ian-x.com
      The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
    2. Re:Wow. by dillon_rinker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Putting it in the public domain means no one else can patent it. It doesn't dissolve the patent.

  3. IBM by Ianoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'd like to think that IBM won't enforce this patent to disrupt paid open source development because they now realise how important Linux, GNU, X, Gnome and KDE are to their business model. However, I suspect I'm just being naieve.

    1. Re:IBM by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IBM holds zillions of patents they don't enforce. Take a look at some of the lame ones they pulled out in reference to the SCO case. Really, it's just fodder for when you really piss them off.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    2. Re:IBM by smittyoneeach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it could be likely a defensive measure, so that others don't hammer them.
      Too, if you're a hardware vendor, stuff like this and OSDL make a truckload of sense.
      Particularly if you have received a Massive Stab wound in your back Over Something, Too.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    3. Re:IBM by Aumaden · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This is almost certainly a "defensive" patent. Simply by obtaining the patent IBM prevents anyone else from hamstringing the development community.

      Preventing OSD would be very much against IBM's best interests.
      However...

      Imagine if SCO owned this patent. They would be doing their best to extort anyone trying to pay open source developers.

    4. Re:IBM by Carnage4Life · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And they hold zillions which they do enforce. You should read up on IBM and Software Patents sometime. A number of software companies could learn a thing or two about monetizing their intellectual property from IBM [if that was their thing].

    5. Re:IBM by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been told that you get to make a big tax write-off if you get a patent. So in the end, the whole patent scheme in corporate America is nothing more then tax legal evasion.

      And as my sig says....

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    6. Re:IBM by Java+Pimp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IBM didn't patent "Paying Open Source Developers." You can still pay people to develop open source software.

      They patented a method of attracting and paying volunteers for their effort while providing incentive for others to volunteer and contribute to an open source project.

      --
      Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
      Kull: She told me she was 19!
  4. Patents are bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So if you want to get paid for developing free software you should move to Europe where methods are not patentable (yet).

  5. Defensive? by kid-noodle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One would hope they've done this defensively, to stop some (other?) evil corporation patenting it first and banjaxing things?

    I said hope.

    --
    fortune -o
    1. Re:Defensive? by KDan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IBM do that a lot. And they are a major supporter of Linux and Open Source in general - I would say it's pretty safe to assume it's a defensive patent. After all, IBM is renowned for patenting more things every year than you can shake a stick at...

      Daniel

      --
      Carpe Diem
    2. Re:Defensive? by hipster_doofus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...IBM is renowned for patenting more things every year than you can shake a stick at...

      Try shaking a stick at 3415 preliminary patents in 2003 alone - nearly double their nearest competitor! IBM has been #1 in patents for 11 consecutive years now.

      Chew on that, SCO :-)

      --
      Five Dolla Moddy-Moddy? ;->
  6. Hey!? by DaRat · · Score: 4, Funny

    I didn't know that you could patent money!

    Or, is IBM paying them with something else? Peanuts? Filtering their spam for them?

  7. The Framers Had It Right by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am not a constitutional lawyer or any great expert in history, so if I get any details right or wrong I'll apologize in advance.

    I personally don't have an issue with IBM or any other number of companies applying for patents in principle. After all, a lot of that is what I would call "defensive patents" which I have a whole separate issue with and won't go into here.

    I do have one major problem with a lot of the patents I've been seeing lately on "business processes". I believe that the Founding Fathers had a basic idea about patents:

    It was for inventions. Something you could build and use. If you couldn't build it, then details blueprints on how the "repeater rifle" was going to look at the end or "the automatic banana peeler".

    Not a wish or a dream or some vague concept on how something is going to work, or a method of how to go from A to B by sticking your thumb up your ass turning in a circle and singing "I can fly". Not for the genetic code of a field mouse that Nature kicked up and you discovered the genetic sequence - though you could probably patent the gel used to discover the genetic markers. That's fair game.

    Inventions. An actual item that can be built in the real world. And it seems that for whatever reason, our members of congress or the senate or whichever slick son of a bitch (or daughter, whatever) who seems to exist only to bend over and get reamed by the latest lobbyist promising that patenting "business procedures is good for the economy!" is not doing their job by the Founding Fathers.

    Who, if they saw what patents are being used for today, would probably use a big old switch on the idiots allowing patents like this to go through. Lord knows, they didn't invent the "willow tree supple butt-swacker switch", but they probably knew how to use it when people acted like asses.

    Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

    1. Re:The Framers Had It Right by Auckerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Inventions. An actual item that can be built in the real world.

      Computers that fit a specific task fall in this category. By extension, so does software (which do real world tasks). That is essentially why I'm not totally against software patents. As long as they solve real world problems in a non-obvious way, they are fair game.

      --

      Burn Hollywood Burn
  8. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    Nobody will use it anyway.

    What open source developer gets paid? Anyone? Bueller?

  9. One thing to bear in mind... by TWX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    is that IBM has lots of patents on lots of things that they don't normally enforce. Lots of memory control and process control concepts are covered by their patents, yet they don't enforce them. SCO is giving them a reason to, though, as a defensive counterattack.

    It might be possible that IBM is patenting this so that no one else *cough*SCO*Microsoft*cough* gets to the idea first. This is somewhat unlikely, but not impossible. Hopefully IBM's open source concepts will remain god for the public.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:One thing to bear in mind... by Elektroschock · · Score: 4, Interesting

      TWZ wrote :"It might be possible that IBM is patenting this so that no one else *cough*SCO*Microsoft*cough* gets to the idea first."

      ???? Huuuuuaaaaahaaaaaahahahahaha!

      IBM's lobby organisations fight hard for the reduction of limits to software patentability in Europe. Fritz Teufel, Eicta, Bitkom ... that's IBM action.

      IBM's committment to Open Source is janus head style.

      Bruce Perens recently complained about IBM: "And yet, a pro-software patent agenda is being pursued by some of the largest and best partners we have in the Linux industry. IBM stands out in this regard. Obviously, IBM has done a lot for our community, and the very fact that IBM endorses our systems and distributes them so well to our many customers has helped us gain the economic significance that gets us taken seriously by standards organizations and legislators. At the same time, we have frequently found IBM taking an adversary position, one harmful to the open source developers, in patent policy discussions at standards organizations, and at governments here and abroad. There's no question that IBM is one of the major parties supporting the effort to expand software patenting to Europe. So we're at the point, in the progress of open source, where we realize that we have very good friends who can still hurt us in significant ways if we don't push back against them. We must push back, or we will simply not survive the upcoming legal onslaught."

  10. Open-source patent license needed! by LoonXTall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Virtually nobody is writing open-source software to place it in the public domain. Rather, much of it is licensed under the GNU GPL, which embraces the property rights of copyright and uses them to ensure that the code remains open. I propose a parallel license for patents: a perpetual, irrevocable license for open-source software[1] to implement, use, and improve the patented concepts and inventions free of charge.

    If we patent our patentable work, instead of merely copyrighting our code, we can build a defensive patent portfolio. This would give us some leverage against patent infringement suits, as well as being good business sense in the current climate.

    What is the harm in not adopting such a license? Besides the possibility of open-source ultimately being crushed by patents, there is the risk of our work becoming a de facto Microsoft R&D lab. We are already seeing that future with XUL (or libglade) and Microsoft's XAML.

    In addition, this license would give Red Hat a graceful way to keep their promise that they will never charge licensing fees on their patents.

    And now, IBM has patented something very much like the Open Source model itself. Can we afford to continue ignoring patents? IBM was once greatly despised, and there is nothing to say that if Microsoft falls, they won't become a new tyrant.

    Of course, open-source developers would still need to apply and pay for the patent, but it is much cheaper to apply than retroactively fight one.

    [1] Rather than "open-source software", the patent license would have to define which software licenses are considered open source. If the patent license relies on an external definition like "OSI-approved", then the OSI could change the license after the fact by changing their approvals. Since the proposed license is irrevocable, the patent couldn't be withdrawn from it if OSI added a license the patent-holder objected to.

    (This post is based on the ideas of someone else. I'll drop them a line so they can take credit or elaborate as they see fit.)

    --

    ~~~LXT~~~
    Life is like a computer program: anything that can't happen, will.

  11. Could be a good thing by wizarddc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They might want to patent this just to simply hold the patent. They could let anyone who wants to use it, to use it for free, or donate it to the FSF. Maybe they just wanted to get it before another company with more devious plans got it. Think what Microsoft would do with this. They would kill Open Source, or do their damndest to do it, with the new tool.

    I just think there might be a chance IBM has some pure intentions here.

    --
    Th
  12. Microsoft by chunkwhite86 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Next thing you know Microsoft is going to sue IBM for infringing on their patented methods of preventing OSS workers from getting paid.

    --
    I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
  13. In other news... by uucp2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...SCO patents method for being paid by Open Source workers

  14. sounds exactly like topcoder by kesteloot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is exactly how topcoder pays people for developing components, except the software isn't open source. http://www.topcoder.com/?&t=development&c=inde x

  15. So what? by chill · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is a patent on A method, not the only method.

    With the way the current business world works, anything that can be patented needs to be, if nothing else but for the defensive value.

    IBM, who I believe is the #1 patent holder in the world, knows this better than anyone.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  16. In related news by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Funny
    IBM...patented a method for paying open source volunteers.

    In related news, SCO claims this is only a derivative work on their system of now getting paid by open source volunteers, and promises to add it to their lawsuit.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  17. Re:Patents help. by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But overall, we must admit, that patents generally are a good thing.

    Overall, we must admit no such thing -- when it comes to "business method" patents, anyway. I'm all for patenting actual, physical, mechanical inventions; and I'm willing to let chemical (including drug) patents slide by on the edges. But patenting ways of doing things (which includes forms of payment and also ... hmmm ... software algorithms) is an absurd perversion of the intended purposes of the patent system. If the suits who think this kind of thing is a good idea had their way, we'd have one enormously rich company that had a patent on "a method of selling goods at a higher cost than that involved in producing said goods in order to realize a profit," and everyone else would starve.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  18. Oh yeah by CGP314 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh yeah... well I'm going to patent paying IBM workers. Take that big blue.

    --
    In London? Need a Physics Tutor?

    American Weblog in London

  19. Re:Would you... by originalTMAN · · Score: 3, Funny

    will I own them or do I have to buy a license?

  20. You're unfamiliar with IBM patenting by melted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As opposed to Microsoft (who has never enforced any patents, so some people even think they don't have any), IBM has in the past enforced their patents and squeezed a great deal of money from others by doing so. Plus, IBM has 10x the patent portfolio that Microsoft has.

  21. IBM's patent culture by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There was an interesting article in last week's Network World that described IBM's "domination" in the world of patents. Basically IBM makes it very worthwhile for their employees to come up with patentable ideas - they are rewarded with pay raises, bonuses, and the like. The idea is to foster and encourage innovation within the company.

    Given this, it would not be unreasonable to assume that some individual within IBM saw this as an opportunity to play the wheel for some extra dough. It's not the only possible explanation - we've seen plenty of businesses overextend the US Patent Office before - but it certainly is a reasonable hypothesis.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  22. The fault: The IBM patent reward system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Many companies, but especially IBM have "Patent Reward Systems". Essentially, they pay folks $1000 for Patent Applications, and the lawyers will try to send it as many as they can...after all, it's their job to do so. The more patents you write, the more money you get for successive patents, and having patents is the only good way to get to the "Distinguished Engineer" level. All in all, it encourages engineers to generate SPAM for the USPTO rather than innovative, but I knew numerous folks at IBM that would play the system.

  23. Method Patent and IBM by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Method Patents have to be the biggest nightmare going. But they are here, and it has to be dealt with (until laws can be changed). IBM and Bell Labs (Lucent/Avaya) hold the largest number of patents going. Almost all of them are junk and are rarely used. But when somebody comes along and starts a law suit, then they pull out the patent portfolio.

    IBM may be doing us a favor by getting it. This blocks hostile companies from aquiring them. The real question is what will IBM do with them. While I have no doubt that IBM will not use them against us today, if they have a CEO change, they could elect to hit us with them. Hopefully, IBM will turn them over to EFF or GNU.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  24. In other News... by blackmonday · · Score: 3, Funny

    In other news, today Microsoft patented paying people with Xboxes and MCSE courses.

  25. escalation by theCat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If the IBM patent really is defensive, and if the threat is present and not future, then we might be on the leading edge of a ramp up in defensive/offensive patents. How about these patents we'd all like to see?

    A patent on a method to manage outsourced software development.

    A patent on a method to handle consumer RMAs using web services to coordinate agents.

    A patent on a method to manage software development via timelines and milestones using an online collaborative system.

    A patent on a method to...

    I think you get the point. If the way we work is now subject to patent, just like the products of our work, then there is very little that cannot be patented. Either the madness will now stop, or the future of our industry is going to be absolutely insane.

    --
    =^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
  26. Re:The fault: The IBM patent reward system by nedwidek · · Score: 5, Informative
    Speaking as an IBM employee, you've only got part of that right. Yes there are monetary rewards for a filing and then when the patent is awarded, but you're 100% wrong when it comes to the spamming. Each division at each site has a patent review board. You have to first convince this board that you are on to something (Having been involved in the process I can say it is not easy and most get shot down at this point). Next you are referred to IBM legal for the writing of the patent application and a prior art search. Only if you've made it to this point does the filing go in.

    If you work at IBM and want to make bonus money it is much easier to write articles at Developer Works and get recognition through the Author Awards Program.

    --
    Post anonymously - For when your opinion embarrasses even you!
  27. Re:I worked for IBM and you are WRONG by ciggieposeur · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was laid off in the last Software Group batch (Dec 19). Patents are still compensated something like $1000/pop. Every project cycle before and after the patent evangelist shows up to ask all the developers if anything can be filed. The laywers will often split patents into two filings (for example one for screen I/O and one for printed I/O).

    I know several IBMers that have abused the patent office by filing obvious claims and been rewarded thousands of dollars by the company. Most have been promoted to managers.

    And now I don't have to post anonymously anymore! Don't y'all feel a little silly being unable to discuss IBM's policies with you own names? I mean y'all are just saying what the BOV instructor did when you were hired on.