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Worst Cars Of All Time Rated

prostoalex writes "Forbes magazine complains that people nowadays do not have a real understanding of how awful a car can truly be. Hence they compiled a list of the worst cars available in the US, or 'lemons' created after World War 2. In the former Eastern Bloc, there are plenty of other choices, including this Ukrainian jewel, as well as many Soviet cars did not make it to the Forbes article."

118 of 1,017 comments (clear)

  1. Personal Experience: Fiero by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I saw the Pontiac Fiero at an autoshow and immediately fell in love with it. It appeared a sound design with potential. The bitter reality was it was well engineered, then passed through the hands of bean-counters who shopped around GM for cheap parts to build this car with, to keep it under $10K. Result, 2.5l 4cyl with a red-line of 4,500 RPM, spun out easily, parking brake froze on a regular basis (I often drove to work burning the brakes until they freed up) and shifted (4 spd) like a transmission designed by space devils. The last straw was a broken headbolt at 30,025 miles, 25 over warranty. The company response, not to be unexpected, i.e. our cars are only good for warranty mileage, after that they could completely collapse and we don't sweat it. With an engine that redlined at a mere 4,500 RPM, and had a shut off, too boot, a broken headbolt sounded like a defect. That they left it to me to pay for was the height of comtempt for the customer. Not for the product, but for the way the company failed to stand behind it, I could never trust them with my $$,$$$ again. Too bad, I still think the car wasn't really all that bad in concept and could have been saved by a company that didn't run away from their products.

    I never did have to contend with the broken engine block or engine fires or "secret recalls"* which were common with these same cars, I dumped it 2 years after buying it.

    * Secret recall: when the customer brings it in for any other service, sneakily check to see if it needs anything on this list fix and take care of it without ever letting them know you did it.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by telecaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      How the hell can a Yugo be worse then a Pinto?
      The Pinto actually blew up and killed people!

      Yeah, the Yugo was bad. But I don't remember the damn thing blowing up. You have to run to blow up....

    2. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by Bombcar · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's what reverse is for. 25 miles backwards, and viola! It's under warranty again!

      Not that you should do this.

    3. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by Jason1729 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That sounds exactly like my experience with an 86 Olds Regency 98. They also shopped around for cheap parts and replaced the Olds engine with a cheap Buick engine.

      Less than 1 month after the warranty expired, the Transmission completely died and had to be rebuilt. I got the same sort of response that after warranty, they don't car if the car melts down. They wouldn't even appologize for it.

      Then at 128,000km, the timing gear (which was made of plastic) threw off all its teeth and the flying timing chain did a lot of other damage too. The engine had to be completely rebuilt. Every time I got an oil change in the 130,000km's, they warned me that if I hadn't had the engine rebuilt recently I'd have to soon. Apparently nearly every single one of those cars had the engine self destruct withing a few thousand kms of 130k.

      Now it's still on the road, on it second engine, 3rd transmission, 4th starter motor, 3rd alternator, 2nd fuel pump, etc...The last original part to go was the muffler :).

      Jason
      ProfQuotes

    4. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by breon.halling · · Score: 5, Funny

      This was moderated "Insightful"?!?!?! WTF? Hasn't anyone ever seen this?

      --
      "Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
    5. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Funny
      Now it's still on the road, on it second engine, 3rd transmission, 4th starter motor, 3rd alternator, 2nd fuel pump, etc...The last original part to go was the muffler :).

      As the joke went when I was keeping my T-Bird going into it's senior years...

      You're buying a new car ... one piece at a time.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    6. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by swordboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Funny you mention the Fiero... I am a Michigander who happens to live just across the street from Pontiac. I fell in love with the Fiero. However, it wasn't the bean-counters that caused me to fall out of love with the car. It was GM themselves.

      Ya see... GM's bread and butter is the Corvette. The Fiero was finally something that could displace the 'vette as the image car. And the big wigs didn't want that to happen. So they crippled the car with mediocre performance by allowing only mediocre parts like those from the Chevette. However, the engineers did get to design the hell out of the car (not that it would ever be used for anything but show purposes) and one day, they had Getrag whip up a transaxle for one of GM's V8s. They put the combo in a late model chassis and quickly took it out to the test track in Milford. If you'll notice, a V8 has no trouble fitting into one of these cars. It was designed that way...

      This test car was unstable and ended up killing the test driver. GM used this as an excuse to kill the Fiero program. A few years ago, my brother was working at GM Powertrain Headquarters in Pontiac and stumbled across the old Fiero design studio - it hadn't been touched since they closed the doors more than a decade ago. He said that it was so much like a time machine that he spent the rest of the day in there.

      Chrysler ended up buying the transaxle property from Getrag and using it in their Maserati TC. The tranny is near bulletproof if you can get your hands on one.

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    7. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by MatthewB79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interestingly, Bueller's sister drove a fiero.

    8. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by El · · Score: 5, Funny

      The real question is: in which vehicle have more people died from embarrassment while driving? Whether you die in flames, or simply never get a second date because you pick women up in a Yugo, either way, you're pretty much taking your genes out of the gene pool, aren't you?

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    9. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Informative

      You know, I also owned a Fiero (bought a used 1986 SE model from the original owner), and I really liked the car. Yeah, I had the problems with the sticking parking brake too, but only once during the winter (snow and ice), when it was almost understandable it might act up. The brakes themselves were an occasional problem in general, though. (They had extremely thin rotors, due to the small clearances available for them, so they'd warp easily - and weren't usually possible to be "turned" and salvaged. If they warped, you were looking at a new set.)

      Despite that, it was a car with "character" - which is more than I can say for most of the egg-shaped boring shells on wheels GM/Ford/Chrysler crank out year after year.

      The well known and feared "engine fire" problem was *only* on the 1984 models, and was simply due to an oil line that was run too close to hot engine parts. The recall fix was simply to re-route the line, and then voila - no more issues.

      Now, I also know that back in '84, Pontiac was throwing 4 cylinder engines sourced from the Chevette into the first Fieros - because of a shortage of parts.

      So basically, yeah - this was a car that suffered from a lot of cost-cutting and not enough pre-sale testing/troubleshooting on its initial release. But for anyone who waited a year or two to buy, it wasn't really a bad little vehicle at all. I went with the V6 in mine, and think that was a wise move. I had about 160,000 miles on mine when I traded it in, and the original engine and automatic transmission were still working just fine.

      I'll tell you though, Pontiac has lost all respect from me in the customer service dept. anyway. I bought a brand new Firebird/Trans-Am from them back in '98, and it was total lemon. I had it in the shop as often as on the street. The dealerships were uncooperative with me from day 1, refusing me a loaner rental car (despite that supposedly being Pontiac's policy when your car is in for warranty work), denying problems were their fault when they clearly were, etc. etc.

      Even back when I owned my Fiero, Pontiac dealers were rude and basically told me my car was unsafe and not worth repairing, when I wanted them to service it. (I had better luck getting a few repairs, like sticking power door locks, fixed at a Chevy dealership!)

    10. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by SacredNaCl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ford has had a long term relationship of some sort with Firestone, and they've used them disproportionately more than other brands for years. I've not been impressed by Firestones for a long time, holding them with about the same regard as BF Badrich and Uniroyal. For my money, the only tires I will buy are Goodyear and Michelin, which have thankfully been the two brands that have come on the past several new cars and trucks I've bought. Other than road hazard damage, which no tire is immune to, I've not had any complaints.

      Makers love those high carbon gripless tires. They get their fuel economy up for the window-sticker on the car, but they don't grip worth a damn. ...From the years I spent working as a courier putting 80K plus a year on cars & trucks, my preferences and experience with tires leads me to believe that Michelin have the best build quality and durability for a non-commercial tire. If you feel the sidewall it's perfectly smooth inside and out. If it isn't, it's defective for a Michelin. Even on Goodyears you notice some ridges and seams. Firestones were(and still are) horrendous when you apply that test to them. Different manufacturing process. Very very poor sidewalls in many of the Firestone and Goodyear products.

      The Michelins have a little bit thicker sidewall and better materials in the sidewall. You will eventually clip a curb at some point, or brush up against them parking, hit a deep enough pot hole that the strength of this will matter. It's not something most people pay attention to when buying them. I learned this lesson the hard way. Had some excellent gripping Goodyears with sidewalls that couldn't take life on the unmaintained streets of St Louis. The factory installed Firestones didn't fair well at all either, nor did the two I had replaced under warranty at very low miles.

      I'm not real thrilled about the high carbon content in most of the new tires. Gets better mileage, but wont grip as good. The converse is, good sticky tires wear quick. If you can push your thumb down full force and leave a print, it's plenty sticky enough to stop you. If you can't, you are taking chances with your life. A set of sticky tires every 40K is cheaper than: #1 Doctors #2 Reconstructive Surgery/Physical Therapy #3 Body Work #4 Increased Insurance Premiums #5 Funeral Services #6 Guilt From Hurting Others.

      If you have a truck that has some serious weight in it or a full size van & you really want a good tire, Commercial tire makes excellent tires. They are nearly indestructable, can be retreaded a couple times, come with the best warranty in the business, you can get them grippy or in fuel economy mode, and they have the toughest sidewall I've ever seen in a tire. They pass the perfectly smooth seamless test. (Just run your finger across it.) They also cost twice as much as anything else on the market, but worth it if you drive 80K a year. Almost all of the big fleet transport companies use them on their vans (DHL, Airborne, Fedex, UPS..etc). You pay more up front, but the TCO is lower over the long haul. They ride a bit rough though.

      --
      Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
    11. Re:Personal Experience: Fiero by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I use a paper bag for my gas cap...

      Only the finest repair parts will do for classic pickups.

      The floor of mine is now made entirely out of street signs. The original floor rotted away, and I've never seen a stret sign rust....so I figured why not. A few night missions, a couple boxes of pop rivets, a tube of caulk, and a couple bloody gashes later and I'm all set.

      --
      Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
  2. results by shystershep · · Score: 4, Informative

    In preparation for the likely slashdotting, here are the current results of the poll. Notice the many non-U.S. built vehicles here (you'd think that at least the poster would RTFA, but apparently not).:

    Which of these cars do you consider to be the worst?
    1975-1980 AMC Pacer
    177 votes (11%)
    1970-1974 Chevrolet Vega
    203 votes (12%)
    1970-1972 Citroen SM
    28 votes (2%)
    1978-1988 Fiat Strada
    24 votes (1%)
    1983-1989 Ford Bronco II
    36 votes (2%)
    1957-1959 Ford Edsel
    40 votes (2%)
    1971-1980 Ford Pinto
    233 votes (14%)
    1978 Honda Accord hatchback
    56 votes (3%)
    1971 Mazda RX-2
    9 votes (1%)
    1979-1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88
    30 votes (2%)
    1984 Pontiac Fiero
    62 votes (4%)
    1956-1968 Renault Dauphine
    75 votes (5%)
    1957-1962 Sachsenring Trabant P50
    90 votes (6%)
    1981-1991 Yugo GV
    567 votes (35%)

    --
    The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
    1. Re:results by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed. Noted automotive journal Forbes? I think not. I'd love to own half the cars on this list! I'd love to have a Citroen SM, a rare example of fine French engineering. The Fiero was marketed as a commuter car because Pontiac wasn't allowed by Chevy to market it as a sports car (at GM that honor goes exclusively to the Corvette). Half their bitching re: the Olds 88 was about the Cadilac V4-6-8, which was never offered on any Olds; the other half was about the Olds diesel, which was offered on more than just the Delta 88. In other words, Forbes doesn't know what they're talking about.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    2. Re:results by WotPeed · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The Fiero was marketed as a commuter car because Pontiac wasn't allowed by Chevy to market it as a sports car (at GM that honor goes exclusively to the Corvette).

      What about the Camaro and Firebird/Trans Am? Those both have to be considered sports cars. But otherwise I agree with you, Forbes should stick to financial press.

  3. Ah, the Pinto. by DarkHelmet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back when my father was alive, he was a doctor. Our policy in our family was to have two cars: one car that was elegant and classy for going to important meetings / etc, and one car that was completely "ghetto" for the purpose of appearing not-so-well off.

    The logical choice for car #2 was The Pinto. It was a clunker. It had such a lack of style that it was actually stylish... well... in its own sort of way.

    Why would someone want to masquarade as not being well off? Because it's usually not a good idea to driving through Compton in a Lincoln Continental. Even though at the time we were living in Minnesota, this applied but only to a lesser degree.

    So tell me... Is a car jacker more likely to jack a pinto, or jack a Lincoln? Hmmm... Blending in is important sometimes.

    So yes... the Pinto. One of the worst cars of all time, but still managed to serve its purpose.

    --
    /^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
    1. Re:Ah, the Pinto. by Bob+Davis,+Retired · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, carjackers are usually too cracked out to care what they steal. I don't know how many episodes of Cops I saw with five or six gangbangers piled into a Geo Prizm.

    2. Re:Ah, the Pinto. by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Informative

      But the pinto can fly

      --
      What?
    3. Re:Ah, the Pinto. by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Interesting
      yeah... also they had Adobe, the car made out of clay.

      "These days, everybody's talking about the Hyundai, and the Yugo. Nice cars, if you can afford them, but for those of us whose name isn't 'Rockefeller'...."

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    4. Re:Ah, the Pinto. by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Funny
      "I have a ford escort, 100,000 miles, 8 years. Never broken down on me. Still has original battery, starts up everytime."

      So that's where that car ended up! Ford's been searching for the only escort they made that was decent, but some delivery driver lost it (it's Ford! They can't wipe their own....).

      Well glad to hear someone got it and they're happy with it.

      burn karma burn...

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    5. Re:Ah, the Pinto. by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 4, Funny

      With a flying Pinto, you'll crash into the ground, the gas tank will spray gasoline all over you, and then you'll fly through the windshield.

      What a novel idea! It's like the exact opposite of seat belts and airbags.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  4. Ahhhh... by Demanche · · Score: 2, Funny

    They Are Making Fun Of my dream cars...... :

    --
    Mod me down im a newf (wiki)
    1. Re:Ahhhh... by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Interesting
      They Are Making Fun Of my dream cars......

      Yeah, I know, for the secret agent in all of us, who can resist...

      Trabant: The car that comes with it's own built-in smoke-screen generator!

      Pinto: Able to vanish in a ball of fire at a moment's notice

      Fiero: Able to spin 180 degrees for those surprise evasion manuevers

      Bronco II: Able to roll over and play dead, fooling pursuers!

      But who can ever forget the arcane Dodge Dart?

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Ahhhh... by Bombcar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dodge Darts live forever! That was the great thing about them.

      And of course, putting a 440 in them made for some insane sleeper cars... See some insane Darts....

      The worst thing about them is they wouldn't die, so you'd never have an excuse to get a better looking car.

  5. gotta love the edsel by caino59 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    they never really had problems to really warrant labeling them as 'lemons'

    They were just butt ugly.

    there are definately other cars out there more fit to recieve "worst car ever"

    1. Re:gotta love the edsel by rynthetyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno, I kind of think that the Edsel reaches the so-ugly-it's-cool level. There is a small segment of the population that are Edsel fans.

      --
      Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines...
    2. Re:gotta love the edsel by Nakito · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I think criticizing the Edsel is evidence that the author of this article does not have any independent conclusions. He only criticizes cars that others have criticized before him. The Edsel was only considered ugly in the context of its own time. That time is long gone, and today we can see that it's kind of cool looking.

  6. What car does Darl drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    A SCOda.

  7. The Holden by So+Called+Expert · · Score: 5, Funny
    In New Zealand, there was a joke about the Holden that went something like this:

    Q: What's the difference between a sheep and a Holden?
    A: You wouldn't want to be seen getting out of a Holden.

  8. Avoid if you are at work... by flogger · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you are at work, beware of porn ads on the link to the worst slav car. FYI.

    --
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    "First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
    -- The Doctor, "Doctor
  9. What about the K car? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Funny

    What about the K car? Currently Red Green's car of choice for "case mods".

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  10. Soviet cars rock. by nate1138 · · Score: 2, Funny

    What about the Trabant? With a plastic body, approx 30Hp in a noisy, dirty 2 stroke engine, what's not to love?

    --
    Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
    1. Re:Soviet cars rock. by szo · · Score: 2, Informative

      How's trabant a soviet? It was made in the DDR. All the other details are right, it rox! :)

      Szo

      --
      Red Leader Standing By!
  11. Soviet Cars by Via_Patrino · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Soviet Cars were like trucks in shape of a sedan, they were made to work several years without failure, what makes than awful to drive.

    1. Re:Soviet Cars by Via_Patrino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I forgot to mention, one of the reasons that soviet cars didn't evolve is that they didn't suffer the oil crisis on the 70's, because they had all the oil they need and weren't in the market, so they didn't need to care about efficiency

  12. Forgot One by CavyDriver · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pontiac Aztek!

    That car is so bad, it must have been hit twice with the ugly stick.

    1. Re:Forgot One by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Aww.. c'mon whats not to like about the Aztek?

      ?

      looks pretty good by this review.. "Although from the outside, the Aztek looks like an overgrown child's toy, Inside it's very claustrophobic. The driver's seat is fenced in by cup holders, change holders, penholders, and an ashtray the quickly converts into a fifth cup holder should the need arise."

    2. Re:Forgot One by antibryce · · Score: 2, Funny

      While we're talking about cars, let's take a look at how they rate on the Gary Busey scale of ugliness

  13. Last 2-3 decades by macdaddy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You mean all the cars of the last 2-3 decades aren't the "worst" autos of all time? I mean hell they don't last more than 8-12 years or so anymore if that. A nice 1974 Chevy 3/4-ton pickup if kept clean (to mitigate fender rot) will outlast any new GM truck hands down. The old adage "they don't make them like they used to" is sure as hell true in my book.

  14. Doh by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Funny

    Figures. I have 3 from that list sitting in my front yard. At least I don't have to mow the grass, just move the cars around once a month.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  15. If you like cars... by Ieshan · · Score: 3

    If you like cars, Check out http://cartalk.com/

    Cartalk is a *hilarious* and very informational do-it-yourself car-show that broadcasts on some NPR member stations.

    Click and Clack are great.

    They have all of their past show-recordings in WMA or REAL formats - okay, so that kinda sucks, but otherwise, it's a great show.

  16. Cars... by John+Seminal · · Score: 3, Informative
    I know a couple that lives in the neighborhood that drives a Yugo. They have had the car for 15 years, and it must have over 300,000 miles on it and it still runs. I think there should be a distinction between cars that look bad but runs good, and cars that are lemons. Just because a car looks like a box with wheels does not mean it is a bad car.

    I know many people that could care less how good a car looks as long as it gets them where they want to go. Sometimes these cheaper cars are a great value considering how little gas they use.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

  17. Ford Escort? by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Funny

    Where is the Ford Escort? I have personly been in 2 that had the engine catch fire, and have known of two others that caught fire. Meanwhile, the Edsel, quite possibly the ugliest car Ford ever made was a fairly decent car for it's time. As for Pontiac Fiero, I owned one once and had it catch fire while it was parked and being washed in a stall. I had to rewire the /entire/ car. On the other hand it had the best handling of any car I have ever driven.

    1. Re:Ford Escort? by John+Courtland · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's the cheapass ignition module. I worked at a shop that had a Ford-based ambulance come in. Boom, it started on fire and burned to the ground right in front of the shop. Almost every ford before 1991 had shit ign modules. They were a recall, get yours replaced if you are uncertain, they aren't expensive and you won't start on fire.

      --
      Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
  18. Aren't all American cars in this category? by Lurks · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Hmm, well as a European - I pretty much consider all American cars as being pretty amusingly bad. That's not trying ot be insulting or whatever, it's obviously just a cultural thing.

    Those big cars, big engines, sloppy suspension and those looks, oh my word. Hmm, I must catch myself because I do like plenty of yank sports cars. And obviously the Ford GT36 is probably the finest muscle car in the world.

    But SUVs, Hummers and those station wagons with wood panels on the side? Oh God, make it stop.

    I wish they'd stop trying to bring Cryslers over to Europe too, it's just embarrassing when they sell 3.

    1. Re:Aren't all American cars in this category? by Rotten168 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually in the JD Power Associates Quality Survey, American made cars largely outdid European cars in quality this year. Lately Europeans cars have tended to be absolute junk.

    2. Re:Aren't all American cars in this category? by nate1138 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Kay, here's some of your own:

      Citroen. No, wait, they won the WRC manufacturers championship, can't bash them (even though they are ugly as hell).

      Ok, here's one
      Peugeot. Can't find anything good to say about this one. I rented one on my last trip to Europe. Blech. Felt like driving a Civic with a cold.

      Or, the mother of all European mistakes - The TRABANT! (East German, it counts ;-)

      Of course, you can laugh at American engineers all you want, but at least our probes LANDED on mars!

      --
      Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
    3. Re:Aren't all American cars in this category? by wwest4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > I wish they'd stop trying to bring Cryslers
      > over to Europe too, it's just embarrassing
      > when they sell 3.

      in case you're implying that the problem is american design philosophy - it's not the manufacturers, it's mostly the consumers. for some reason, there are some americans who like large, ungainly vehicles with brutish styling and uneccessary horsepower. it only makes sense that local mfgs follow suit.

      but there are just as many who buy japanese and european makes.

      in europe (as you should know) american manufacturers release completely different models becuase the market is totally different. ever seen a german ford taurus wagon?

      if the manufacturer could dictate to the market, then surely (german-owned) chrysler would be more successful with their stock models.

      that being said, there are plenty of people in europe who like ungainly, brutish american cars. there is a large, loyal chrysler-jeep following in europe.

    4. Re:Aren't all American cars in this category? by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      as a European - I pretty much consider all American cars as being pretty amusingly bad.....and those looks, oh my word.

      How do you explain the pig-nose on a BMW?

      And their website (bmw.com) has goofy, fake drop-down lists and is slow.

    5. Re:Aren't all American cars in this category? by Scooter · · Score: 4, Funny

      You guys sent a PROBE to Mars? What with all the expense and effort, why didn't you send them a decent car?!?

      Geez - was it at least the V6 "GT" version?

    6. Re:Aren't all American cars in this category? by wahmuk · · Score: 2, Informative
      Daimler-Chrysler makes SMART. So it's not all bad news...

      Hooray! The smart is due in the US in 2006. Unfortunately, they have decided for their first model to be the ForMore, an SUV-like iteration of the ForFour, their upcoming four-door four-seat model.

      Then maybe we'll get the ForFour and the ForTwo later on. The powers that be at DaimlerChrysler seem to think that we won't buy the things, despite a barrage of grey-marketers trying to bring the the little cars into the US. And their US product announcement FAQ basically says that we won't get the smaller cars.

      But there's hope!

      An "Americanized" version of the roadster was debuted at the Detroit Auto Show. The Dodge SlingShot concept car is obviously based on the smart roadster, down to its three-cylinder rear-mounted engine and the targa style removable roof panels.

      I'll keep my '94 del Sol a little longer, thank you!

      --
      You can't take the sky from me!
  19. That's nothing... by Faust7 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Inexplicably, some of these relics still manage to survive.

    If you think that's amazing, check this out: the Pinto has its own domain name and cult following.

  20. Zaporojetz by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Soap box(Milnitsa, ) was a very popular car in the Ukraine, as well as in the rest of the former USSR. Same goes for the rest of the former soviet cars. Of-course the popularity was mostly due to the fact that this car was very cheap and much more accessible than other cars, especially by foreign manufacturers (foreign to the soviet population.) So the soviet cars definetly do not belong on the 'lemon' list, simply because they in fact were really popular among the soviet population.

    I am originally from the city where this car was manufactured, the most polluted city in Ukraine, btw.

    1. Re:Zaporojetz by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Informative

      BTW., Zaporojets was built by a factory that built parts for Soviet tanks, what is even more interesting is that the engine used in this car was also used by some disel tanks as a starter (ignition) system, now that's recycling!

      Now, forget your SUVs, how about this beauty:
      LUAZ ?

  21. LADA Niva by bigjocker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm thinking about buying a Lada Niva. I've been in love with this car for a few years and now I have the chance, but I'm intrigued by the comment in the article mentioning them as bad cars. I have a few friends who have been owners of this car and, althought not the best car around, they seem to perform really well.

    The new generation of Nivas comes with a motor that is 1700 cc, inyection motor (I really don't know the correct translation of this spec ...), 4x4, air conditioning and few gadgets.

    Is this car really bad? or is it suffering from bad PR?

    --
    Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
    1. Re:LADA Niva by bigjocker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Forgot to add a link to a picture of the new model. (sorry, it's a spanish site, but the pictures show the model I'm talking about)

      --
      Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
    2. Re:LADA Niva by Tandoori+Haggis · · Score: 5, Informative

      These vehicles were great little workhorses. I recall the old ones (they were exported around 1979?)which looked rusty (before they started proofing them against road grit/salt) but had been driven through through forests on rough tracks and were none the worse for it.

      Reviews on this vehicle seem to conclude that it is a very capable 4 wheel drive vehicle, provided that you accept its limitations. It was designed for rough unmade roads/ sub-arctic tundra rather than highways/motorways.

      I suspect that because they were cheap, they tended to be neglected. Also some folk expect limo ride in a cross country hack - its for getting from A to B.

      No, this vehicle is more like a poor mans Land Rover, yet I suspect its may be easier to live with, provided you can get the parts, look after it and use the gears appropriately.

      Here are links to reviews on the Lada Niva for you:

      http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/motors/cars/lada_niva_1_ 7i /_review/109486/
      http://www.ciao.co.uk/Lada_Niva_ _5154699
      http://www.carsurvey.org/review_18955.ht ml
      http://www.reviewcentre.com/review20585.html
      http://www.preloved.co.uk/reviews/review.cfm?produ ctID=132

      Sounds like its a hit with reviewers.

      Here is the search input string I used:

      http://s22.ixquick.com/do/metasearch.pl?cmd=proc es s_search&startat=10&language=english&qid=-1&query= Lada+Niva+Review&cat=web&rl=NONE&lui=engli sh

      Good luck and have fun.

      --
      My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
    3. Re:LADA Niva by joel.br · · Score: 3, Funny

      The only reason Lada put demisters on the back window is to keep your hands warm while you are pushing it home.

    4. Re:LADA Niva by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 2, Informative

      I live in Russia and I used to own this car. Its 4x4 performace is quite impressive. Get it if you can leave with really poor acceleration (something like 17 sec to 100 km/hr) Unlike most other VAZ models based on fiat its a compltely original design.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    5. Re:LADA Niva by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That was kind of the whole point. It would be stupid building a 4x4 that is actually *designed* to be taken offroad, that might need highly specialised tools to repair. What if it broke in the middle of 1,000 miles of the Steppes of Russia?


      Most of the Lada and Skoda reliability problems were simply down to owners failing to maintain them. Since they are built on 30-year-old designs, they need just as much care and attention as cars did 30 years ago.

    6. Re:LADA Niva by Bertie · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did you know that, for that reason, the original Land Rover was designed so that everything could be worked at using a single spanner? No? well now you do.

    7. Re:LADA Niva by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I did, actually. Unfortunately it turns out you need quite a few different sizes of spanner for a Landrover, but nearly everything is 3/8" 5/16", 1/2" or 11/16". The Suzuki SJ410 fares a little better, with everything being 12mm, 14mm or a 6mm Philips screw.


      Oh, and the Lada Niva has more ground clearance than a Landrover.

  22. MIne :-) by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was working as a contractor, one of the permanent hires was new from college, thought he knew everything, took no advice and asked for none, but sure gave it out. I had a 1986 MR2; this was 1988. He came in one day bursting with ego and pride and told me he had bought a Fiero. I looked at him in amazement ... why did you buy that piece of shit? He was startled, said Isn't that what you have?

    Idiot had bought the car strictly based on what he thought I had. No research, no test drive, nothing.

    My MR2 now has 330,000 miles and runs like a champ, still shifts at redline like it couldn't be happier.

    1. Re:MIne :-) by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I didn't really respect Toyota (after sing a Corolla get accordianed in a low-speed crash) and went with Pontiac

      Translated:

      I didn't respect toyota when I saw their bottom of the line car get trashed in a low-speed crash, so I went and bought a car made out of plastic and second-rate parts.

      I once asked my boss, "If Fieros are such pieces of shit, why don't we get more of them in the shop?" His answer "NOt that many people were stupid enough to buy them."

      The jaws of life won't get all the fiberglass shards out of your skull when you get in a low-speed crash. SHoulda bought the 'yota. ;)

      Disclaimer: Not only did I used to be a mechanic, I was also a junk-yard parts puller, so as a matter of fact, I did get to see cars covered in blood, and Fieros didn't show up as well as many many many other cars.

      --
      Like what I said? You might like my music
  23. Russian: LADA by Phil+John · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...I remember my dad got one for my mum when her 15 year old fiat finally gave out, he thought it would be a good deal, (i.e. it was cheap).

    Well, they got it home and found out one of the tires had a slow puncture...so before we could go out in it for a test drive, that had to be fixed. And that was just the start of it.

    Over the next 7 years that car had so much money spent on it just to keep it going through Control Technique (the belgian M.O.T.) that the decision was finally made to get my mum a new car. So my parents went to the V.W. garage and she decided to get a polo, at which point they found out that if they took the LADA to the scrapyard they would give them more money for the car than the V.W. dealership would give as a part-ex. Yes, it was worth more as scrap! :o)

    Reminds me of all the old lada jokes we used to gall my dad with,

    Q)Why do LADA's have heated rear-windscreens?
    A)To keep your hands warm whilst you are pushing it.

    I also remember the first aid kit that came with the thing had phials of Ether in it...good thing my mom never crashed!

    OTOH, that polo has been going for well over 10 years and shows no sign of dieing yet.

    Ah, happy days! :o)

    --
    I am NaN
    1. Re:Russian: LADA by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Funny

      another old anecdote:

      A soviet drove his Lada(01) to Munich and it broke at some point there. Some Mercedes driver offered his help and used a rope to tie the cars together to pull Lada to the nearest mechanic. On the way a Volvo decided to race the Mercedes, and apparently the Merc. driver forgot about Lada at its back.

      Later local newspaper had a headline: Lada participates in a race! A Mercedes and a Volvo were seen to race each other on the autoban, but apparently a Soviet made Lada was seen chasing them from behind and honking the horn, so that the two cars would move aside and let it through.

  24. I agree.... by Selecter · · Score: 4, Interesting
    .. with the Yugo being the worst car of all time, at least of the cars made or imported into the US. Some of the East German plastic body cars would probably be worse.

    I drove a Yugo as a delivery guy out of high school for an auto parts place. The owner had bought a fleet of them becuase they were so cheap. Within 3 months every single one had a major failure ( engine blew, tranny seized ) and he junked the entire lot and bought Ford Escorts.

    1. Re:I agree.... by breon.halling · · Score: 2, Funny

      "I drove a Yugo as a delivery guy out of high school for an auto parts place."

      Wow. Talk about irony. =)

      --
      "Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
  25. Shoebox Factor by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They're intentionally built ugly. Echo, Element, the new VW van, you name it, they're made to appeal to people who want a "quirky" vehicle that will "stand out". These people don't want a generic Bronco-shaped SUV or cab-forward sedan that they can't find in a parking lot. Of course, like many trendy "quirky" things (eg Lisa Loeb's glasses, trucker hats), most other people hate them.

    --
    Freedom: "I won't!"
  26. Trabant stories by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 3, Funny
    Since when is the Trabant an American car?

    But the real question is whether it is a car at all. In Hungary, if said, say, that you arrived at a party by car, but in fact travelled in a Trabant, your statement would be considered misleading at best. These things were not really considered cars.

    The brother of a friend of mine (yes, this is a friend of a friend story) drove his Trabant from Hungary to Amsterdam in the 1970s, where Trabant's hadn't been seen before. Whenever he returned to his parked vehicle, there was always a small crowd around wanting a closer look and asking if he'd built it himself.

    There is a joke (told back in the days when they made Trabants) about some Saudi sheik who'd heard about some car built in one of those northern European germanic countries (Trabant was produced in East Germany) that was so special that it took them years to build one for you (in socialist economies it was typical to wait several years between ordering a car or Trabant and it being available for you to pick up). So this sheik thought that he would order one and had one of his secretaries send away for it. Since he'd paid in real money, the vehicle was shipped immediately. It arrived and the sheik was happily puttering around in a local village when he saw a friend of his and shouted out, "Hey, Abdulla! Look I ordered a car that takes years to make from one of those nortern European countries, and they sent me a paper model that actually runs!"

    I won't go into what carrying on a converstation was like in one of those things. I would say that it would be like carrying on a conversation on a lawn mower, but the lawn mower probably has a more powerful engine.

    --
    Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
  27. Big mistake in the slideshow. by ChangeOnInstall · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Editor's Note: Forbes.com was unable to obtain permission from Ford to use an image of a Bronco II from the 1983-1989 model years. The Bronco above is a 1980."

    This is a bigger screwup than this editor's note leads one to believe. The Bronco and Bronco II are two completely different vehicles. The Bronco was based on theu fullsize Ford F-150 pickup, where the Bronco II was based on the compact Ford Ranger pickup. The Bronco was produced before, during, and after the time the Bronco II was produced. The two-door Bronco II was effectively replaced in the early nineties by the Ford Explorer, while the Bronco continued up until about 1997 when it was replaced by the four-door Expedition.

    While the Bronco II was prone to rollover, the regular Bronco never had such issues.

    --
    What has *science* done?!? -- Dr. Weird (ATHF)
  28. The Mazda RX-2? WTF? by bouis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The RX-2 is a beloved classic and very desireable today. Really, "bad fuel economy and emissions" -- who cares? They were quick stock, and you could port the 1.1l or 1.3l engine yourself to the point where it would make more power than v8's of the day.
    As far as being reliable, they were no worse than any other early 70's car.

  29. Pinto Lovin' by R33MSpec · · Score: 4, Informative

    After a bit of a google found a great page on all time stupid cars

    Australia has had it's fair share of lemons like the Holden Camira, Leyland P76 (which at the time, both won Car of the Year)

  30. What? No Skoda? by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative
    I'm thinking about buying a Lada Niva. I've been in love with this car for a few years and now ...

    When I was in Europe, 92-94, the running joke was the Skoda. Yet, in the UK there was an Skoda owners club, that built these cheap cars from Prague into serious rally cars. With little enough down to get a durable car that just needs some love and attention, almost anything is possible. The Chevy Nova taught most of us in Michigan that, back in the 70's

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:What? No Skoda? by Muhammar · · Score: 2, Funny

      Skoda jokes:

      The difference between Skoda and a Jehova Witness:
      You can slam the door on Jehova Witness.

      The difference between Skoda and a sheep:
      It is less embarassing to be caught in a sheep.

      --
      I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
  31. MR2s rule by jaredmauch · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I have owned two of the MR2's and have *Loved* them both. One a 85, and my current is an 87. Best cars ever, one of the easiest stick shift automobiles to drive. I consider a good mark of a car is that you pay more in insurance than you do for the car and maintence. I drive this car daily and it still gets 30mpg, much better than my 1998 Acura (Honda). Toyota really did a great job on these cars. Every time I see a Fiero, I just chuckle to myself. I'm hovering around 167k miles with it and am not a bit disappointed.

    For one of the older MKI (85-88), expect to pay around $1k for one, unless it's been well taken care of in Cali (ie: no rust, etc..). You will not be disappointed.

    1. Re:MR2s rule by FigWig · · Score: 2, Informative

      Street legal elise coming this year to the US with toyota engine. Many people have already put down deposits.

      --
      Scuttlemonkey is a troll
    2. Re:MR2s rule by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 2, Funny

      As old as your Fiero is, you'd probably have more miles on it if it didn't spend so much time in the shop....

      --
      Like what I said? You might like my music
  32. The List (if you don;t wanna do the slideshow) by flogger · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Edsel 1857-59

    The Edsel was the ultimate DOA car, but contrary to common opinion, this was more a function of market segmenting and changing tastes than of purely bad styling. And of course it doesn't help that it was ugly. The vertical front grille of the Edsel looked like a big nose that divided the otherwise relatively conventional front of the car, and the front and back styling made even the 350hp V-8 version look slow. By the time Ford decided to restyle the Edsel in 1959, the car's sales had slid off a cliff and that was the end of Edsel.

    1989-91 Chrysler TC Masarati

    There were a whopping 52 service bulletins (many requiring recalls) for this bastard-child car born of an unfortunate need by Maserati for ready cash and Chrysler's willingness to turn a LeBaron into a Maserati. Not only was a 3.0-liter V-6 a criminal concept for a supposed Italian exotic (putting out a pathetic 141 horsepower), but so was the American sheetmetal. Then there were the many mechanical nightmares from blown clutches and engines to leaking roofs. This car cost double the sticker on the LeBaron and broke twice as often. After all, it was Italian, right?

    1959-1969 Chevy Corvair

    Sure, the nifty-looking Corvair had some good points. Like a Porsche 911, its engine was air-cooled, and resided in the back, to provide extra rear-wheel traction. Too bad its flat-six engine biased the weight of the early cars so far aftward that the steering became very light at highway speeds; and it sure didn't help that the gas tank was mounted up front, so if you did wreck--Ka Boom! If only the design had been better executed. Bummer. (Watch out, here come the nasty letters from all those Corvair fans!)

    1969-77 Ford Maverick

    There were four-door Mavericks and two-doors. There was a Mercury version called the Comet. There were vinyl-topped models, too. What they had in common was that they were built on platform designs heavily prone to rust (this was the early days of unit-body cars) and weak-kneed in-line six engines. But the cars were cheap and therefore, popular, especially in the gas-crisis years. Not that we think the Maverick is necessarily as bad as what came afterward--the abysmal Fox-platform Futura/Fairmont, and the Grenada, which was still based on the Maverick platform, and so carried forward all the bad-handling traits and massive rustability to boot.

    1980 Chevy Citation

    With a 2.8-liter V-6 and front-wheel drive, this was GM's attempt to take on the likes of Honda and Toyota. GM also shared this so-called X-body setup (of the Citation) with Olds (Omega) Buick (Skylark) and Pontiac (Phoenix). The differences were basically in body style, not fundamental mechanics. Naturally, because the cars looked futuristic and because they got decent mileage, the Citation and its brethren were a huge hit (800,000 Citations sold in 1980). But to meet demand GM let quality slip, so problems like faulty brakes and steering plagued Citations and led to a steep drop in quality--and sales.

    1986 Cadillac Eldarado

    In a desperate attempt to reach a younger demographic, Cadillac revamped its classic Eldorado to look less like a classic Caddy road yacht and more like a two-door version of the ill-conceived four-door Cadillac Cimarron. Demand for the new Caddy fell (big surprise), and only a year after introduction production sank to just under 18,000 units. Did it matter that you could get a V-8 in the Caddy and not in the other GM look-alikes? Nope. It took another 16 years of awful versions (2002 will be the last year of the Eldo) but the decline all started back in 1986.

    1982 Renault Fuego

    In the early 1980s American Motors Corporation (before it was absorbed by Chrysler) and French-maker Renault teamed up to make some really awful cars but none as bad as the Fuego. Thankfully, the relationship died out--and today AMC no longer exists and Renault hasn't set foot on American shores since. Th

    --
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    "First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
    -- The Doctor, "Doctor
    1. Re:The List (if you don;t wanna do the slideshow) by echucker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nice list, but not the one related to the article in question. Your descriptions point to this article from October 21, 2002. The linked article is from this week's January 25, 2004 magazine.

  33. They missed one by whitroth · · Score: 2, Informative

    From very personal experience: the Chevy Chevette (pronounced "shove-it").

    I had a 1980, purchased used in 1981. In the five years we had it, it had
    1 broken spring
    1 (or was it 2) dead starters
    1 dead alternator, and
    2 (TWO) transmission rebuilds, one of which was paid for by a class-action lawsuit.

    Designed cheap (not inexpensive), built cheap, disposable.

    mark "will *NEVER* buy another GM product
    without a *free* 10 year warranty
    on *everything*"

  34. Re:My first car was a used 84 fiero by dattaway · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had an 86 Fiero and all the problems you described. At the young age of 65,00 miles, the highly touted GM Iron Duke 2.5L engine broke a piston skirt and shelled a piston wall in Eastern Missouri. Amazing that factory a factory air filter would allow the pistons to become so worn that quickly.

    All the Big Three cars in the last 20 years I have driven have gone through over 10 engines, many transmissions, drive shafts, axles, etc... Compared that to my foreign made cars, which was a single worn CV joint replacement on a 155,000 mile Honda Accord. One import could have replaced several of my American cars. That could have saved the money over the years to buy a nice house.

    Buy American? I don't want to encourage crap like that being exported and giving us a bad name.

  35. America Cars Suck ASS by NetNinja · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why is it that computers and other goods get cheaper but car prices continue to rise?
    Cheap ass plastic, inferior paint that just barely coats the car.
    How come the Japanese cars use better plastic?
    Maybe we should export all manufacturing of American cars to India.
    Please don't tell me all the R & D justify's the prices.

    By the way I drive a Ford Taurus SHO.

  36. Once again, blending in... by Phil+John · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...the thieves probably figured (somewhat correctly) that since the other cars were nice, new and expensive they would be harder to break into. Your 1998 shitmobile would, however, be easy to break into and simple to hotwire (no immobilisers etc.).

    Now, if you had blended in and had a nice car, there wouldn't have been so much to mark yours out.

    If you got it back, they didn't steal it to sell, they stole it to commit a crime in (joyride or as a gettaway vehicle).

    As the parent poster said, it's all about blending in! :o)

    --
    I am NaN
  37. Da Vega by realperseus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hey, how can you knock the Vega??? Now here is a car that once you dropped a 350ci motor into it the freaking thing wouldn't quit! Yea it would break rear axles every week if you kept putting your foot down, but what a fun car to drive! Junkyards had parts for these things like you would believe... the yard I frequented had a seperate section just for them. We had a blast putting these things together for the dragstrip. Used stopsign channel for the subframes, and once we found out you could put a Monza (remember the Monza??) rear end into the thing (much stronger than the stock Vega rearend) then all bets were off, it was "foot to the pedal time" ALL the time! Sure my fingers were greasy all summer and I spent more time under the hood/under the car than I did driving/racing it, but WOW, what a summer that was! Wish I still had one...

    --
    "Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the smartest thing we ever did.." Homer Simpson
  38. The pinto.... by Kraegar · · Score: 4, Informative
    Yes, the pinto exploded... two of them were known to do so that I have been able to find out about.

    Reference

    The second case, the one in Elkhart Indiana, happened less then 5 miles from where I live. That case is the one that made the pinto famous, and is especially bizarre.

    In 1978 U.S. Highway 33 between goshen and Elkhart was 3 lanes - one going each direction, and a center lane that was for passing, turning, or whoever wanted to be in it at the time. Head on collisions happened on occasion, and a project was being weighed by the state on whether or not to widen the road. It was being blocked in part by the railroad company that owned the tracks the road follows, and in part by local businessmen who owned the property on the other side.

    So along comes this poor girl, who puts the gas cap on loosly after filling up her Pinto's tank. She then gets on to 33... she sees the cap fall off, and decides to stop and get it. On a road with no shoulder, and no where for following traffic to go except into the aforementioned death-trap of a center lane.

    And along comes a van. A van driven by a a doped up moron hit the car. The van had a modified front bumper made from heavy wood. And the gas cap still had not been placed back on to the Pinto.

    Boom, no more Pinto.

    Fast forward to the state prosecutor filing against Ford, and the highway Department quietly expanding the road while the prosecutor had them distracted. (The road is now 5 lanes, two each direction, and a center lane that occasionally sports a head on collision. It also has rest stops every 150 feet, and signs to point them out).

    Yes the car had a flaw, but the case that made it famous is suspicious at best. The blame could easily fall on the girl for stopping. It could fall on the doped up driver of the van. It could be blamed on the highway department. The prosecutor managed to blame it on Ford.

    1. Re:The pinto.... by madcow_ucsb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah I did a report on the Pinto case for my Engineering Ethics class in college. I'd always heard that those things blew up right and left. I looked online and there were all kinds of articles about it. And then I noticed they were all a mass of circular references and they all refered down to the famous Mother Jones article (which my prof had provided) as the sole "real" source. Not one article I found added more evidence than from the "insider" sources Mother Jones supposedly unearthed.

      I think I really pissed off the prof when I concluded that Ford may very well have gotten a bad rap for that one. Yeah I found a couple real cases (and the court docs as well) but I'll be damned if I could find any other record of the hundred or thousands of exploding cars that the "advocates" would have us believe. It seems like someone else would have noticed and written it down eventually...

    2. Re:The pinto.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      What made the Pinto case famous is not so much that the car had a fatal flaw, but rather the way Ford dealt with it. Ford knew about the problem ahead of time. They asked their bean counters how much it would cost to issue a recall. Then they calculated how much it would cost to ignore the problem and let the victims sue them. The calculations showed that it was cheaper to do the latter. And so they did.

      People blame the Pinto, but really they should blame the company.

  39. The uniqueness of the Trabant by PapayaSF · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Trabant has an interesting place in economic history. Once the Berlin Wall fell, economists could examine the books of the Trabant factory. Of course, manufacturing businesses work by taking raw materials and adding labor to produce a finished product, and if the value of the finished project doesn't exceed costs, they lose money. That's not uncommon, but with the Trabant, the value of the car was *less* than the value of the raw steel, glass, plastic, etc. used to make it, not even counting the labor! I love the irony of East Germany disproving Marx's labor theory of value by producing a "value-subtracted" product ....

    --
    Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
  40. Porsche 924 by Crusty+Oldman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As the ex-owner of a Chevy Vega, I can say with authority that this list is nowhere near complete. The worst car ever built has to be the Porsche 924.

    Lack of power was only one of its negative attributes. The body panels over your legs rusted and let in rain water. The exhaust system would shake itself apart. The headpipe, catalytic converter, and resonator all tore themselves apart from vibration. The cast iron exhaust manifold actually split longitudinally from the shaking. The cooling system was designed with the radiator lower than the engine, so it would constantly develop an air bubble and overheat the engine (and eventually crack the engine block). And oh yeah, the driver's door fell off. Literally!

    The nickname I gave my Porsche 924 was "two-dollar whore", and it must have liked the name, because it had me calling it constantly.

  41. Yugo joke by Mr_Icon · · Score: 5, Funny

    A man enters an auto parts store and addresses the mechanic:
    "I'd like a pair of windshield wipers for my Yugo."

    The mechanic looks at him thoughtfully, then says:
    "Sure, sounds like a fair trade..."

    --
    If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
  42. '77 Chevette by Sounder40 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Any list purporting to be the "Worst Cars of All Time" that doesn't include the 1977 Chevrolet Chevette is missing a major example. My friend's father bought one as a commuter car, and it made it 22,000 miles before the floor rusted out beneath his feet at highway speed! (In Houston, so, no, salted roads were not a factor.) Oh, and Chevrolet said "tough" when he complained since it was out of warranty.

    --
    A clever person solves a problem, A wise person avoids it. -Einstein
  43. Where's the Subaru Brat? by Colonel+Cholling · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm surprised they didn't mention this. For those who don't know (they weren't exceedingly popular), this was Subaru's answer to the mullet-car craze spurred by the Ford Ranchero, GMC Caballero, and Chevy El Camino. Picture a malformed Justy with a pathetic attempt at a truckbed welded on.

    Then there was Dodge's entry, the Rampage, sort of a K-Car for Journey fans. But I think the Brat has even that beat.

    --

    I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.
  44. Why No Bronco II? by hondo77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why does Forbes need Ford's permission to run a picture of the Bronco II?

    --
    I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
  45. Fieros may suck stock.... by caino59 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But you can do soem hella crazy things with em...

    http://www.design1systems.com/

    the northstar swap is my favorite...there's a guy around here that owns one and damn is that thing fast as hell...

  46. Others, like any GM X-Body (Citation etc) by Shivetya · · Score: 2, Interesting

    X-Body cars, the Cimmaron by Caddy was by far the worst transgression were notorious at times.

    Ford's Tempo & Topaz also developed bad reputations for oil seals.

    Chrysler was just plain bad. Having to use the K-platform under about everything they offered. If anything they were the styling idiots of the 80s. Amazing turn around for that car maker. Still love Iaccoca's introduction of the mini-van where the door handle came off in his hand.

    The also missed the Renault Alliance and Hyndai (sp?) Excel ? Their first car was atrocious.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  47. Speaking of Eastern Europe - the almighty TRABANT by uglomera · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How could no one mention the TRABANT? My family owned two of these, it was the only car we could get back home without waiting for a decade for a government permit. It was made of cheap carton, really plastic, had 26 horsepower on 2 cylinders, and it totally sounded like a blender in distress. The gear shifter was made of aluminun which wore off every 10000 miles or so, it was a standard replacement like the oil.

    There are many Trabant fans in Europe now, some clubs even, which are preserving this true icon of the communism era. I myself have so many memories of this car, including the ones of being made fun of because my father owned one. But it was cheaper than the russian cars (even that is possible) and many times it was more reliable.

    Ah, the Trabi :)

  48. The same design team did the Crown Vic? by waferhead · · Score: 3, Informative

    The same design team must have doen the current crown vic, as Dallas has lost several police officers from rear impact/blow up accidents.

    There are a number of recalls... And last I heard Dallas and sereral other cities are suing Ford over this.

  49. Poorly written - several grave errors by PHPhD2B · · Score: 5, Informative
    The Citroen SM is stated to have "air and water" suspension ... totally incorrect. The SM had "hydro-pneumatic" suspension, which the writer apparently assumed to mean air and water.

    In fact the suspension was hydraulic/pneumatic, the hydraulic fluid was oil, not water, and the gas for the pneumatic system was nitrogen, not air.

    As someone else pointed out, the picture for the Bronco II slide shows a Full-Size Bronco, which was a completely different vehicle than the Bronco II. This would be like showing a Chevy Caprice in the Chevy Vega slide. How difficult would it be to get permission from someone owning a Bronco II to use a picture of it for the article?

    Article claims the Edsel didn't sell because it had too many features and was thus too expensive, and also because it was ugly. The Edsel failed because it was a bad car - major quality problems and prone to catching fire.

    Furthermore they claim in a stab at the rotary engine that Diesel engines had problems in early life. What on earth are they talking about? The Diesel engine was invented about a century ago. European cab drivers have been using Diesel engines for decades upon decades ... Trucks, and tanks, and construction machinery, and what else uses them.

    I could go on, but I won't. This is a very poorly fact-checked article.

    --
    --I am Sun Tzu of the Borg. Resistance is feudal.
    1. Re:Poorly written - several grave errors by macheath · · Score: 2, Informative

      Absolutely very poorly researched. In case of the Citroen they also forgot to mention that hydropneumatically suspended cars were already on the market since almost 20 years at the time. The suspension would only give trouble if basic maintenance was not performed on the suspension, which was admittedly more maintenance than was needed on a leaf spring. But is this surprising? In my personal experience (I have /have had 4 HP-sprung Citroens in all, average age 15+ years) the suspension *never* failed on any of those.

      Same goes for some of the other cars mentioned, and really some bad cars are not on the list. The Alfasud for instance: great car to drive but already rusting in the showroom. The GM Diesel V8s from the 80s. Other companies could make reliable diesel passenger cars and had done so since the 30s (Mercedes for instance). I could go on...

  50. Re:Ford Focus by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Informative
    The Focus is such a piece of shit that it set a record for simultaneous investigations by the NHTSA. Here's a report from CBS News - you can google for others. Or ask this guy or these people have to say..

    Known defects include stalling when making a turn, catching fire, unexpected acceleration, wheels falling off, etc. And Ford doesn't have enough $$$ to pay all the claims, so they try to blow you off. That's why the morale problem at Ford is so well-known.

  51. The Yugo by donutello · · Score: 4, Funny

    WARNING: Some people might find the following joke offensive. If you are one of those people, you should stop reading now.

    Q: What's the difference between a Mercedes Benz and a Yugo?
    A: You couldn't catch Princess Di dead in a Yugo.

    --
    Mmmm.. Donuts
  52. Re:Speaking of Eastern Europe - the almighty TRABA by fafaforza · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My family were driving across the eastern German border one overcast day, so roads were slippery. The entry to the gate was paved with stone so it was especially slippery.

    We were in a Russian made Lada and as we stopped for the gate, a Trabant behind was apparently unable to slow down and slammed into the back of us.

    Damage on the Lada amounted to a small 5 inch dent.

    The Trabant? The entire front was shattered. The poor woman wasn't able to drive it away.

    Don't know how people ever got into those things. As kids, we were able to kick in the sides of an abandoned one with not too much effort.

  53. Canyonero by ScriptMonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

    With out a doubt, the hands down worst car ever is the Conynero. Just listen to its jingle! Can you name the truck with four wheel drive, Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five? Canyonero! Canyonero! Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown Canyonero! Canyonero! Hey, hey! Twelve yards long, two lanes wide, Sixty five tons of American pride! Canyonero! Canyonero! Top of the line in utility sports, Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts! Canyonero! Canyonero! She blinds everybody with her super high beams She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero! Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!

  54. Worst cars inaccuracies by redsilo · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are a couple of cars on the list that may deserve to be there but some of the facts have gotten lost in the lawsuits and the press. Edsel has become synonymous with lemon and some of the reasons were detailed. Over time we forget that it was a new line and was sold by dealerships that had been happily selling Packards and Hudsons for years. Those were quality cars that couldn't command the volume of sales to compete. The Edsel was ok but still basically a dressed up Ford and not at all what the newly recruited sales force considered an excellent car. The Olds diesel probably wasn't one of GM's finest efforts but circumstances and overly ambitious PR also share some blame. At about the time it was introduces there was a shortage of diesel fuel and fuel suppliers were literally scraping the bottom of the barrel, or tank, if you prefer, to meet the demand. When that happens you get impurities from the bottom that under normal circumstances would never see the light of day and certainly not the tank of an autombile. The Stanadyne-Roosa Master fuel system tends to be unforgiving of poor fuel, usually costing an entire engine with the failure. Some people got along fine with the GM diesels. They were people accustomed to using diesels and who had a reliable fuel supply to burn in them(farmers, construction firms, etc.) They also knew that in spite of the company claims that the diesel should operate just like a gasser some extra attention was needed if they were to be reliable.

  55. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  56. GAZ-21 by Bugmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Hey ! Don't go around dissing the GAZ-21, the official vehicle of the KGB. I actually got to ride in it during my youth (no, I was not part of the KGB, nor was the KGB after me... long story). That thing was built like a tank; you could bounce modern-day Toyotas off of it like ping-pong balls. It was also extremely easy to service -- none of these little tricks like "remove the battery to change the headlights" that modern cars have. The car did break down occasionally, but this was due to the decrepit state of the Soviet manufacturing pipeline, not due to bad design. And actually, GAZ-21 broke down a lot less than, say, the Moskvich. And of course, it was sturdy enough to go offroad any time -- which, in practice, meant "as soon as you get out of Moscow", Soviet roads being what they are.

    Is GAZ-21 a good car by today's standards ? No. It's an old, old car made in the 60s. But it still was a great car for its time, especially considering the enormous challenge of making any kind of car in the USSR.

    --
    >|<*:=
  57. We had TWO of these cars! by sakusha · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can't believe it, my family had TWO different cars on this list, the Olds Delta 88, and the Fiat Strada.
    The Strada we owned for about a month. A new Fiat dealership started up, my dad got involved with their financing company so he got a deal on a Strada. But the car basically fell apart in less than a month. I remember pulling on the door handle, not realizing the door was locked, and I pulled the handle right off the door. The engine started smoking and blew up within a couple of weeks, it had massive transmission problems, my dad took it back to the dealer and told them to shove it.
    My mom owned the Olds, it was an aging rustbucket and had continual problems. The muffler rusted through, we took it to a repair shop and they told us it was a good thing we never took a long trip, because the hot manifold was lying too close to the gas tank, it could have blown up at any moment. The car finally died one day while I was driving it, I was backing out of an angle parking spot and the front suspension caved in, leaving the front wheels both pointing inward about 30 degrees, like this: /--\ oh man it was a sight.
    Yep, both of those cars were pieces of crap.

  58. Pinto by flynt · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ford Pinto (Score:-1, Flamebait)

  59. Where are the British Cars? by herbierobinson · · Score: 2, Informative

    Surely anything with Lucas electronics in it should be near the top of the list!

    --
    An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
    1. Re:Where are the British Cars? by UncleFluffy · · Score: 4, Funny

      You forgot the classic: "it's not leaking oil, it's marking its territory".

      Yes, I still love my MG...

      --

      What would Lemmy do?

  60. Fieros by rs79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The 19 year old punk across the street has two of them, both have been stripped down to nothing and built back up.

    I have to say I'm hellish impressed with the engineering of them, it's the closest the US has ever come to building a Ferarri - certainly not on looks, but in power and handling. Stock they're less than ideal ecpecially with the 4 banger, but the V6's are pretty nice and the 88 suspension or modded earlier suspension is more than capable. The low polar moment of inertian from a true transverse mounted mid engine placment gives lotus like agility. If you drove one you'd understand.

    Plus the engine bay is big enough to drop anything in - Quad 4, Northstar V8, Hemi, even a 454 fits with no modification to the engine bay.

    The dash is awful; Like most GM interiors it looks like "Star Wars by Mattel" and frankly I've yet to see any GM dash that didn't look retarded.

    The problems with the first batch of Fieros were predictable. The first year of any car usually sucks badly.

    The car was killed because by 92, according to Pontiac's develoment schedule it would ourperform a Corvette, and that's not allowed.

    They go cheap these days. $300 gets you one you can work on and with not much effort have a daily driver. Really good ones barely get 10X that.

    IMO they're one of the neatest cars ever to come out of the US.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  61. Citroen Maserati SM by rs79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This car is on of the great car of all times. Is it a car you can get in and just dive. No, hell no and fuck no. The cam chains need constant attention. You'd better have access to a good Citroen or avaiation mechanic to keep the complex hydraulics in order. And they rust. Badly.

    But, if you expend the effort to keep one in good nick you get a comfortable French car with a killer Italian engine and spaceship looks even 30 years later. They still go for big bucks today.

    Citroen hydraulics are well understood, just not by very mant people. Like many rare and low production cars this one takes some effort to keep it going but is, if you're a car freak, very much worth it.

    The lack of the pre 92 Ford Explod^Hrer on this list with its unfixable front end and flimsy head/gasket problems demonstrates beyond the shadow of a doubt the writer doesn't have a clue about cars. The SM has no inherent desugn faults, the Explod^Hrer had several. Sheer, dangerous JUNK.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  62. Obligatory yugo jokes...... by Elusive_Cure · · Score: 2, Funny

    Q: What is the purpose of the resistors on the rear windscreen of a Yugo?? A: So your hands wont be cold when you push it... Q: What is a Yugo on a mountain??? A: A mirracle !!

    --
    Roses are red, violets are blue, most poems rhyme, but this one doesn't... ;^)
  63. Re:Speaking of Eastern Europe - the almighty TRABA by phoenix321 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    hehe.

    It may get worse than that:

    Friend of mine drives around with another friend. He had to stop at an intersection, his friend behind just did not. So they made a crash with a Lada Samara (small 2-door hatchback) in front and a Ford Escort from behind. Guess what? The Lada was not even dented, the Ford was totally ruined in the front, engine damaged - not recoverable.

    Lesson learned: Lada may be low tech, but it's durable like the proverbial panzer. Oh and it heats up in less than 5 minutes in even the coldest (-20C) winter we'd ever experienced.

  64. Renault? by kd4evr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Coming from mid-Europe, I had I chance to familiarize myself with all kinds of cars from both East and West. By far the most honest criteria would be price/performance ratio, considering the expectations! Yugos from Serbia are probably an all-time favorite no matter how you bend the criteria. There are also very useful production anecdotes available (which may be of use to those how favor outsorcing to 3rd world $5/hr typists, point being "nobody can pay me poorly enough to match the lousy work I do...") Leaving that aside, two points have to be made: - many east-european cars were not as disastrous as the "non-aligned" Yugo and their performance was well within the expectations, knowing their pros and cons, and of course considering the price. Lada Niva is a good example of a simple work mule, easily repairable and robust that will do well. Skoda Favorit, was somewhat different: a great story of improvement. On the other hand, there were always Fiats (and many more brands, already listed) that were below any reasonable expectations (see the anectode in the beginning of the Michael Moore's Stupid White Men about the brand new VW Beetle or the (Microsoft-related?) stories on BMW's first iDrives in the 7 series). These days, with customer care programs and selling/marketing tools in place, you have to be especially careful about cars that are advertised as having character and image, which is often a substitute for lack of performance - small Peugeots and Renaults being the big spenders, the way I see it. The German auto club (ADAC) statistics seem to be a pretty good source for car reliability. We may have a new star on the horizon of the worst cars ever, and (my bet) it will be a Renault, with ("closed source") allmighty electronics done the French own way breaking down cars to a halt on every corner.

  65. RX-Family by thelizman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problems with emissions were understated - at the time of the RX-2, nobody really gave a shit about emissions except some nuts in california. What did the RX-2 in was low-end performance. Rotaries stink for torque in the sub 5k rpm range. Mazda finally introduced turbo on the RX-6 and more popularly on the RX-7. Poor sales killed the 7 in the 90's, but Mazda kept doing research and we have the RX-8 which is a damn fine engine, and clean to boot. The problem is the stigma of needing turbo is hurting sales, and Mazda is still waiting to introduce a RX-8 Twin Turbo.till this summer.

  66. 1985-2000 Ford Taurus by thelizman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't believe this car didn't make the list. My 1989 had over 500 TSBs, including a design flaw which caused two major engine fires. Many of these cars also had the infamous faulty ignition cylinders. Then there's the infamous transmission. In 1991, the Ford Taurus with the 3.8L V-6 had the most complaints filed with the NHTSA than any other car. Even SHO owners were not immune to poorly designed suspensions and fuel systems, though that engine and transmission were quite reliable considering it's high performance level - but then it was made by Yamaha. Even as late as 2000, there were problems - one friend of mine had to have the entire main wiring harness replaced after a series of malfunctions revealed the car was one of thousands that were miswired.

    I remember when Ford used to claim "Quality is Job #1". Good thing they dropped that slogan. I will never never never buy a Ford car, nor any of these jived-up yuppied trucks they sell. Give me a good ol' bare bones Chevy F-1/2/350 anyday.