Slashdot Mirror
Cable TV Versus Satellite TV?
rufey writes "In the next few weeks I'll be moving and am thinking about getting either cable TV or satellite. I don't need broadband Internet (I use DSL), so getting cable TV bundled with broadband is not an option I'm considering. Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact). What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception? Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."
I've only had experience with the DVR Time/Warner cable was offering and it wouldn't let you time-shift anything but PPV content, but I don't know if that applies to Comcast as well. If it does, you could stick a TiVO or your own DVR into the equation, but then what you're doing is decoding the MPEG from your cable provider, then reencoding it back into MPEG when it gets saved to the hard disk, which sucks. This is assuming you're getting digital cable of course.
The satellite DVR packages on the other hand will save the MPEG stream directly to the hard disk, so you can view it later without loss of image quality.
This is all the more important if you're thinking about going with HDTV. DirecTV is about to come out with a HD-DVR made in conjunction with TiVO. DishNetwork's HD-DVR is already out, but it will set you back a cool thousand.
If there was actually something worth watching on TV beside porn, I'd get the latter, if for no other reason than that DirecTV won't carry porn, but seeing as how Murdoch has bought DirecTV from Hughes that's probably about to change.
The consensus on rec.video.satellite.dbs seems to be that weather really doesn't affect image quality (though this may not be true for HD content) but that airplanes, helicopters, birds and people falling off of your roof can and do. That said, it supposedly causes only minor artifacting (which you're going to get anyways given the aggressive compression the providers use... watch Star Trek: TNG on Spike TV sometime and watch the signal lose sync everytime somebody fires a phaser.)
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
I've had Directv for about 4 years and overall I'm very happy. Around here (Northern Virginia) our cable provider sucks and I don't have to give them a cent for providing their usually lousy service.
Directv signal is usually very good but I have had problems with loss of signal during severe thunderstorms and when snow covers the dish.
Other than that, I'm pretty happy with my satellite service.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
Come on slashbots, and set yourself free - Kill your TV!
I've been tv free for 4 years now - and would never consider going back.
there is much more to life than watching a piece of furniture.
... hi bingo
As long as your dish is secure and the transmission is working, you will have virtually no problems from weather. This is BS from the Cable companies.
I've never had a problem due to inclement weather although we don't get fierce lightning storms where I live so I don't know if that makes a difference.
I would choose the service based on the programming.
M
I have comcast, and they took Tech TV (ZDTV) out of their lineup about a year ago. If you like that channel, you better call and see if they have it. Since then, I've got 3 telemundos, 4 'womens' channels, the golf channel, etc. They don't even have tech tv on digital cable here either. I'm interested in seeing what other people post about this, because I would like to get tech tv again!
I have dish and I love the fact that they cost so much less than Time Warner cable in the Austin area. I recently moved into an apartment and unfortunately it faces the wrong way apparently and I can't get reception. I wish the dish could point somewhere other than southwest because then I'd be golden. And for about the same service dish costs half what cable does.
I'm a student living in an area with Comcast.. For the first two years we had Comcast because we're all used to having cable. It was okay, nothing special.. Eventually, I got fed up with Comcast not carrying some channels I wanted (Food Network and TechTV) and they kept inching the price up. I found DirecTV had a deal for three free months and a monthly fee less than that of cable.
Installation was a slight pain because we live in an apartment and couldn't mount the dish onto the building.. I bought a $25 tripod and a $3 piece of pipe (as the installer suggested, since it's cheaper than buying it from them). The reception is clear but you do notice some artifacts once in a while (similar to what a DivX looks like) in the picture due to the compression. The local channels are actually clearer than they were with cable and we get a lot more good channels. We've only lost the signal twice from two bad storms when our tripod literally tipped over. None of this "vanishing signal" like the cable commercials imply. Heck, we lost the cable signal at least once or twice a year during a bad storm. It doesn't degregate during storms, but we don't get snow, which I hear really kills the signal.
Overall, I'm glad we switched.. If you're happy with basic extended cable channels, I'd stick with comcast. If you want some of the extra channels, go satellite. I'm not sure which has NASAtv or if it's an add-on channel or something.. I see now that you can get a Tivo for cheap if you sign up for satellite and I think the Tivo monthly service fee is less also.
I've had DirecTV in the Seattle area for years. LOTS of rain and clouds. The only times I've lost signal is when the rain and clouds were so thick that it was dark at noon. Usually I had other problems occupying my attention at those times... :-\
I recently added a DirecTIVO (HDRV3) and added a 160GB drive to it. This makes a GREAT setup. Anytime I sit down, there is something that I WANT to see on. I do get NASA TV as well.
One major problem with that. DirecTV most certainly *does* have PORN. Something like 6 or so channels, plus it's offered on a few of the PPV channels in addition to Spice, Hot Network, Playboy, etc. Good stuff too. Not just the HBO/Skinimax R rated soft-core crap, but real honest PORN.
And yeah, I posted this anonymously for a reason. :)
Weather doesn't necessarily cause problems for satellite channels. I paid a little extra to install oversized dishes (30" - 36"), and during the worst rain or snow my reception is always good.
I've got DirecTV with a DirecTivo that was provided in a package deal (Sony T60). It has been a wonderful combination. I have yet to be unhappy in any way, shape, or form. At the time, I got the DVR for $99 as I was a first time DirecTV subscriber. I would encourage you to get some similar deal. I had digital cable before and couldn't stand it after sampling DirecTV at a friends house. You will NOT be disappointed. Now, I understand that the HD Tivos will be coming out soon (the current Tivos do not support High Def)...you might want to wait until one of these hits the market (quite possibly combined with the rather new feature of being able to burn your shows to DVD). I'd guess this happens in the 2 to 6 month range, though I'm not sure how long (if ever) the combo HD/DVD/DirecTV units will be in coming.
About two years ago, I got extremly pissed off with Cox Digital Cable (Every day for an hour or so, all the premium movie channels would go black; they kept sending techs, no one could find a problem)
I switched to DirecTV and haven't looked back since. Now, granted I'm in Phoenix so weather isn't exactly a factor here. But, even with the monsoons in the summer, i've only lost picture about 1 or 2 times, and that was only for a short duration.
When I saw that Best Buy was selling a DirecTV receiver/Tivo unit for $99, I jumped on it. We had a Tivo already but this was one unit, smaller, bigger drive, two inputs, and dolby built it.
I couldn't be any happier, and i'm glad i went this route.
My personal experiance on this (DirecTV Subscriber 7 years, Time Warner Analog and Digital for 5 years) is that Digital Satellite beats Digital Cable hands down.
Everything that the cable companies say (with the exception of the dog sneezing) may be true, but it's exaggerated to the point of borderline lies.
If your dish is aimed to achieve a signal in the "85%" range, which is quite easy to do, you won't have much of any problem with rain or weather fades. With mine, a 90% signal, I was able to watch TV reliable during a tropical storm in Houston. The few times I have lost signal, it was back up within minutes.
With Digital Cable, I discover that I lose signal anytime they're working on a line, construction hits a cable, flooding at their office, you name it. *At Least* a full day outage every month or two.
As for channels, Who has what depends on what day of the week it is. I believe NASA TV is carried by DirecTV. I'm not sure about Comcast, as they don't sell in my area.
Cable touts how owning your own equipment is bad. This reminds me of the old AT&T / BellSouth argument that they should own the phones and lease them to you. Guess what, Cable companies aren't supplying that digital converter for free. It costs more to rent that box than the extra that local channels cost on Satellite.
As for DVR, the DVR's supplied by either cable or satellite companies are low end models. If they fit your needs, go for it. If you want the latest and greatest, buy or build your own.
I say DirectTV is the way to go.
I don't know much about digital cable but I can tell you a few things about DirecTV having been a subscriber for several years. I live in the Seattle area and it rains here a lot. We have never had a problem with rain fade. The only time my signal drops to a unwatchable level, it is due to someone bumping it on the way up the stairs (dish is in a bad location and easy to bump if you are carting stuff up the stairs.).
The down side is the year long contact you must agree to for service. If you want to cancel early they charge your something like $12/month left on the contact. There is a $5/month charge for equipment per room. And finally DirecTV has had great problems getting me a bill in the mail each month. I don't really know why, but I had to start paying my bills online just to make sure they didn't try to ding me for late fees.
Finally, I would like to point out DirecTV's private war on piracy. You might want to check out sites like Freedom Fight and make sure you morally agree with DirecTV's methods of (IMHO) extortion.
Str8Dog
using System.Darkside; public
Wasting countless hours on the couch is as much TV's fault as an open mail relay is the Sendmail team's fault. A tool is just a tool; whether or not it's used appropriately is up to its owner. It's possible to have both a TV and a bookcase and get plenty of enjoyment out of both.
Go outside and take in the sunshine. Read a book.
If you are so dependent on TV that you need an "emergency backup", you have problems indeed.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Comcast is running commercials about how easy it is to lose a satellite connection? I find that amusing because I just canceled my cablemodem net service because I was fed up with all the outages on it. We didn't have cable TV, so maybe that was never impacted when we had the problems, but I never found Comcast to be overly concerned about uptime.
When we first got the cablemodem it was great. That was when it was Excite@Home. The first year we had no outages at all, it was rock solid. Then after AT&T bought it out, it was still ok, but IIRC we had an outage or two during the next year. The last 8 months of Comcast has just been horrible though.
Anyway, I know you're not looking for cablemodem information. It's just that I choked on my lunch when I saw the thing about Comcast saying the satellite systems suffered from severe outages.
The people I know with satellite don't complain about having problems, and haven't switched to other technology over the the years they've had them, so I'm wondering if it's really anywhere near that bad.
Sean
This isn't true. A standalone Tivo will work anywhere - cable, sattelite, antenna, whatever else somebody can come up with. I personally have used my series 1 Tivo with both analog cable and Dish sattelite with zero compatibility problems with either.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I'll put it this way: my cable modem has had more downtime than my satellite TV over the last two years, and every time I've checked, the cable TV feed has also been messed up whenever the cable modem has had trouble.
Based on my experience with Comcast, this makes almost perfect sense. They have horrible service, and are frequently down.
(Side-note: I have to laugh -- well, grimace, really -- at their local ads against the satellite crowd. They show a guy who contends he used to sell satellite TV, so he tried to install it himself and had no end of problems. Cue the shot of an installation literally held together by sticky tape. No kidding -- the chap's a salesman, he tries to install something himself on the cheap, can't even be bothered to use a screwdriver, and wonders why it keeps going out. Hell's bells.)
About a year ago they used to advertise their cable modem service as having an advantage over dial-up of no dropped connections. I e-mailed them and pointed out that, when I was on-line and their service went down (which occurred two or three times a week on average), it sure as hell looked like a dropped connection to me. I'm sure they ignored me, but funnily enough they don't make that claim any more.
The only caveat I have on the parent poster's comment is that our cable TV doesn't always go out when the cable modem is out (but it's probably 95% of the time).
Hideously expensive compared to satellite, anecdotally worse, not better, reliability, and Comcast the ISP caps your bandwidth and refuses to tell you how much you're using and how much you're allowed to use -- just that you're using too much. Yeah, what's not to loathe about Comcast?
I in a Comcast area (suburban Illinois) and have been through almost every configuration they have both regular and digital. I had DirecTV and Dish Network back in Phonenix, but now I just moved back to DirecTV.
My biggest desire to move back to DirecTV was HDTV. I feel that DirecTV in the long term will provide better HD options that local cable. Couple that with almost every HD DirecTV receiver able to tune to HD over-air broadcasts and provide local channels via Satellite or over-air, there is little that cable can possibly offer over DirecTV.
I did lots of studying. The most annoying thing is that Comcast doesn't even want to begin to provide you details about when they will offer HDTV in my area, though they advertise it on TV.
As far as reception. I was a bit concerned about the "we loose our signal all the time" and all I can say, mounted on my roof, I get strong signal all the time, even in the snow. I know that heavy weather (it is the water) can distort the signal and you have to be careful if your dish builds up snow, but if that does become an issue, there are several workarounds including sprays, covers and other items that make sure your LNB doesn't get "watered" down.
I totally hated the Digital Cable. They over compress the channels and the receivers were about as slow as molassass.
My DirecTV install experience was excellent, a lot better than my cable, where they didn't even know what they were doing. I expected to have to educate the DirecTV guy (since I have quite an extensive custom built whole house distribution system) but he didn't have a problem and did a very professional clean install. The cable guy just did his thing but the DirecTV guy asked permission before doing any physical changes.
I am VERY happy with the programming selection on DirecTV versus Comcast. They just are damn good at what they do. Calling them recently about getting CBS-HD for the superbowl was super easy and very friendly. Lot better than calling my local cable franchise.
Well, there are my two cents...
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Yeah it really sucks. Just yesterday, last seconds of the game, kicker is going for the field goal and BLAM! some guy impaled himself on our antennae. Peeled him off but it was no good, the game was over.
Buy a bigger dish. Here in Alaska, 18" dishes wont even work. Minimal size is 30". Personally, we ended up with a 1.2 meter dish which is more immune to weather. (Our Dish network transponders vary from 60-80 in strength, with 125 on the spotbeam.) My friend went for the gold and bought a 2 meter dish. ChannelMaster makes all of these dishes for consumers to buy.
Also, not sure how long your cable to your dish is? Buy some Belden 1694A cable, low loss serial digital interconnect RG6, and have it terminated with Canare F connectors on both ends. Doesnt make much difference for signals under 1 ghz, but can make a huge difference for higher signals depending on your existing cabling. I've ran my Dish on 350 feet of this cable with only a few points of signal loss on the highest frequencies coming from the LNB. (Check www.bluejeancable.com for a pre-made source of these cables. Or www.haveinc.com if you want to build it all yourself.)
and most features that you'd find in a Tivo.
I presume that you've never owned a TiVo before then.
I'll admit -- I've never owned the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 DVR (which is what the Comcast and TW boxes actually are), but there's a couple of good pages to read about the differences and just how feature poor the cable PVRs are.
Want a quick summary? Very poor searching, amazingly poor recording management, poor conflict resolution, barely adequate playback controls, and crappy live tv support. Oh, and it's less stable to boot.
The only upside is that the hardware is usually free and has a low monthly cost. That's great, except that Dish has a free PVR as well, and DirecTV with TiVo is only $99. Both have a monthly fee, but it's pretty much the same as the cable ones (and with DirecTV it's waived w/ the top of the line package). Oh, and that fee is once per household, not once per unit -- at least for sat.
And, of course, the signal quality is better over sat than it is from cable -- particularly for the analog channels (usually anything under 100, sometimes anything under 80, depends on your cable carrier).
Personally, I switched from my cable company (Charter) to DirecTV last October. My picture quality went up, I added about a dozen channels, and my monthly charge went down. Even with the forthcoming DirecTV price increases (all of $3 for me -- I can't think of a cable hike that was that little) I'll be paying less for more. Oh, and unlike cable, my TV doesn't go out randomly or with any really severe storm.
You can use a normal standalone tivo with any source. A dedicated satellite tivo (currently) has several advantages over using an SA tivo for satellite, though:
1. No need for any sort of control cable or "IR blaster" or serial connection to make your standalone tivo control your cable or satellite tuner box.
2. Two built-in tuners. Record two shows at the same time, while watching a third that you've already recorded. This is freaking fantastic, and I hope we start seeing 2-tuner SA tivos as well.
3. Pure digital recording. With a DirecTivo, it records the digital stream straight off the satellite. If you use an SA tivo and a satellite tuner box, the stream gets decoded by the satellite box and then re-encoded to mpeg by the tivo. You'll see quality loss.
Anyway, just wanted to lay it all out. An SA tivo works with everything, and is truly in its element with analog cable. A DTivo is fantastic and has several advantages, but is can't be used for anything but DirecTV.
A friend of mine, had a dish for 6 months, we hang out at his house all the time to drink, watch movies, sports, etc.
:P
Durring this time, there was a huge blizard that rolled through. The picture quailty was really bad, when there was signal at all. We had to keep going outside to clean the dish off. If anything gets inside it, it will start crapping out.
Durring normal rain, you will notice little "bleeps" here and there on the picture. Typically, it only happens 2 times durring a 1 hour show and its very minor. However, durring very heavy down pours, the signal disappears. At times, there is signal but its unbareable to even look at.
The only times wind will affect your signal, is if your dish isn't properly secured. Any movment on the dish will create poor signal. Of course things like leaves, branchs, acorns, etc will create problems.
Now, he moved over to digital cable. It rocks, very little downtime at all. Plus, ondemand is great. Just make sure you get the best package they have. Starz and Cenimax are the best ondemand packages out there. The movie selection is generally much better. Depending on your cable provider, they are usually free access as long as you have the big package. I rent over 100 movies a month with it for free. Beats renting from the video store. But, the video store is going to have a better selection
I would recommend what others have suggested. Get cable first, try it for a few months, then switch to the dish. The dish companys are giving out good deals to people who switch from cable. Try it for a few months, if you don't like it vs cable, many cable companys are giving out the same deals to switch back.
until (succeed) try { again(); }