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Cable TV Versus Satellite TV?
rufey writes "In the next few weeks I'll be moving and am thinking about getting either cable TV or satellite. I don't need broadband Internet (I use DSL), so getting cable TV bundled with broadband is not an option I'm considering. Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact). What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception? Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."
I've only had experience with the DVR Time/Warner cable was offering and it wouldn't let you time-shift anything but PPV content, but I don't know if that applies to Comcast as well. If it does, you could stick a TiVO or your own DVR into the equation, but then what you're doing is decoding the MPEG from your cable provider, then reencoding it back into MPEG when it gets saved to the hard disk, which sucks. This is assuming you're getting digital cable of course.
The satellite DVR packages on the other hand will save the MPEG stream directly to the hard disk, so you can view it later without loss of image quality.
This is all the more important if you're thinking about going with HDTV. DirecTV is about to come out with a HD-DVR made in conjunction with TiVO. DishNetwork's HD-DVR is already out, but it will set you back a cool thousand.
If there was actually something worth watching on TV beside porn, I'd get the latter, if for no other reason than that DirecTV won't carry porn, but seeing as how Murdoch has bought DirecTV from Hughes that's probably about to change.
The consensus on rec.video.satellite.dbs seems to be that weather really doesn't affect image quality (though this may not be true for HD content) but that airplanes, helicopters, birds and people falling off of your roof can and do. That said, it supposedly causes only minor artifacting (which you're going to get anyways given the aggressive compression the providers use... watch Star Trek: TNG on Spike TV sometime and watch the signal lose sync everytime somebody fires a phaser.)
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
I've had Directv for about 4 years and overall I'm very happy. Around here (Northern Virginia) our cable provider sucks and I don't have to give them a cent for providing their usually lousy service.
Directv signal is usually very good but I have had problems with loss of signal during severe thunderstorms and when snow covers the dish.
Other than that, I'm pretty happy with my satellite service.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
Come on slashbots, and set yourself free - Kill your TV!
I've been tv free for 4 years now - and would never consider going back.
there is much more to life than watching a piece of furniture.
... hi bingo
...neither? Sell the TV, and where your entertainment center would be, put a bookcase. I cut back to basic cable and though i "miss" some shows, I dont miss wasting countless hours on the couch .....i cant even tell you what "reality shows" are on these days....
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
As long as your dish is secure and the transmission is working, you will have virtually no problems from weather. This is BS from the Cable companies.
I've never had a problem due to inclement weather although we don't get fierce lightning storms where I live so I don't know if that makes a difference.
I would choose the service based on the programming.
M
I have comcast, and they took Tech TV (ZDTV) out of their lineup about a year ago. If you like that channel, you better call and see if they have it. Since then, I've got 3 telemundos, 4 'womens' channels, the golf channel, etc. They don't even have tech tv on digital cable here either. I'm interested in seeing what other people post about this, because I would like to get tech tv again!
I have dish and I love the fact that they cost so much less than Time Warner cable in the Austin area. I recently moved into an apartment and unfortunately it faces the wrong way apparently and I can't get reception. I wish the dish could point somewhere other than southwest because then I'd be golden. And for about the same service dish costs half what cable does.
I'm a student living in an area with Comcast.. For the first two years we had Comcast because we're all used to having cable. It was okay, nothing special.. Eventually, I got fed up with Comcast not carrying some channels I wanted (Food Network and TechTV) and they kept inching the price up. I found DirecTV had a deal for three free months and a monthly fee less than that of cable.
Installation was a slight pain because we live in an apartment and couldn't mount the dish onto the building.. I bought a $25 tripod and a $3 piece of pipe (as the installer suggested, since it's cheaper than buying it from them). The reception is clear but you do notice some artifacts once in a while (similar to what a DivX looks like) in the picture due to the compression. The local channels are actually clearer than they were with cable and we get a lot more good channels. We've only lost the signal twice from two bad storms when our tripod literally tipped over. None of this "vanishing signal" like the cable commercials imply. Heck, we lost the cable signal at least once or twice a year during a bad storm. It doesn't degregate during storms, but we don't get snow, which I hear really kills the signal.
Overall, I'm glad we switched.. If you're happy with basic extended cable channels, I'd stick with comcast. If you want some of the extra channels, go satellite. I'm not sure which has NASAtv or if it's an add-on channel or something.. I see now that you can get a Tivo for cheap if you sign up for satellite and I think the Tivo monthly service fee is less also.
I've only had one outage in the year and half that I have had Dish Network, and that was only during a bad snow storm. I've heard other complaints about losing signal during rain, or cloudy days, but have not experienced them myself.
My parents have Comcast and it glitches out all the time, with the screen pulsating with lines across the screen. They've also had random outages for no apparent reason. Comcast just replaces the reciever hoping to fix the problem, but it never does. I've also been told by Comcast installers that most of the equipment they're using is refurb and they have troubles all the time.
I only need the Preview button when I haven't used the Preview button.
I've had DirecTV in the Seattle area for years. LOTS of rain and clouds. The only times I've lost signal is when the rain and clouds were so thick that it was dark at noon. Usually I had other problems occupying my attention at those times... :-\
I recently added a DirecTIVO (HDRV3) and added a 160GB drive to it. This makes a GREAT setup. Anytime I sit down, there is something that I WANT to see on. I do get NASA TV as well.
I'll put it this way: my cable modem has had more downtime than my satellite TV over the last two years, and every time I've checked, the cable TV feed has also been messed up whenever the cable modem has had trouble.
Plus, if you get an integrated DirecTV/TiVo receiver, you get to time-shift your shows with zero quality loss. With a standalone TiVo there's an extra D/A conversion between the satellite receiver and the video cable, then an A/D conversion and a lossy compression step to get from the cable onto the TiVo's hard disk. I quite enjoy being able to make pristine archive DVDs of my favorite shows without any re-encoding at all.
One major problem with that. DirecTV most certainly *does* have PORN. Something like 6 or so channels, plus it's offered on a few of the PPV channels in addition to Spice, Hot Network, Playboy, etc. Good stuff too. Not just the HBO/Skinimax R rated soft-core crap, but real honest PORN.
And yeah, I posted this anonymously for a reason. :)
Weather doesn't necessarily cause problems for satellite channels. I paid a little extra to install oversized dishes (30" - 36"), and during the worst rain or snow my reception is always good.
I've got DirecTV with a DirecTivo that was provided in a package deal (Sony T60). It has been a wonderful combination. I have yet to be unhappy in any way, shape, or form. At the time, I got the DVR for $99 as I was a first time DirecTV subscriber. I would encourage you to get some similar deal. I had digital cable before and couldn't stand it after sampling DirecTV at a friends house. You will NOT be disappointed. Now, I understand that the HD Tivos will be coming out soon (the current Tivos do not support High Def)...you might want to wait until one of these hits the market (quite possibly combined with the rather new feature of being able to burn your shows to DVD). I'd guess this happens in the 2 to 6 month range, though I'm not sure how long (if ever) the combo HD/DVD/DirecTV units will be in coming.
About two years ago, I got extremly pissed off with Cox Digital Cable (Every day for an hour or so, all the premium movie channels would go black; they kept sending techs, no one could find a problem)
I switched to DirecTV and haven't looked back since. Now, granted I'm in Phoenix so weather isn't exactly a factor here. But, even with the monsoons in the summer, i've only lost picture about 1 or 2 times, and that was only for a short duration.
When I saw that Best Buy was selling a DirecTV receiver/Tivo unit for $99, I jumped on it. We had a Tivo already but this was one unit, smaller, bigger drive, two inputs, and dolby built it.
I couldn't be any happier, and i'm glad i went this route.
No I'm not a paid endoreser of them, nor do I wish to Spam, but in my experience, for $45/month for 150 channels (including NASA TV, all the basic channels but no premiums like HBO) amongst other wonderful channels with real content, I stay happy. Good value for my $ if you ask me.
Adelphia is the local cable company in my area, and while they have a promo rate of $19/month for 3 months I'm awfully suspicous of that rate after my 3 months are up and they are not willingly disclosing it. They seem kinda scummy to me.
Near as I can tell, weather conditions don't affect Satellites much either. My Satellite was doing just fine in big rainstorms here (I was a bit nervous about turning on my equipment in a big thunderstorm here not too long ago tho so I can't vouch for thunderstorms). My Dad who lives up in the mountains and has had many snowstorms has never complained about any issues with his Satellites (tho in all Fairness he's a DISH subscriber).
DVR? Can't help you there, people have been telling me to get one but they're appeal to me is limited.
Internet access? I've been told it's ok if not quite a bit laggy, but no firsthand experience myself either. For my high speed Internet I use DSL quite happily (again avoiding Adelphia like the plaque).
In short Satellite I think is a good value for the $. However your experiences may vary.
...in bed
My personal experiance on this (DirecTV Subscriber 7 years, Time Warner Analog and Digital for 5 years) is that Digital Satellite beats Digital Cable hands down.
Everything that the cable companies say (with the exception of the dog sneezing) may be true, but it's exaggerated to the point of borderline lies.
If your dish is aimed to achieve a signal in the "85%" range, which is quite easy to do, you won't have much of any problem with rain or weather fades. With mine, a 90% signal, I was able to watch TV reliable during a tropical storm in Houston. The few times I have lost signal, it was back up within minutes.
With Digital Cable, I discover that I lose signal anytime they're working on a line, construction hits a cable, flooding at their office, you name it. *At Least* a full day outage every month or two.
As for channels, Who has what depends on what day of the week it is. I believe NASA TV is carried by DirecTV. I'm not sure about Comcast, as they don't sell in my area.
Cable touts how owning your own equipment is bad. This reminds me of the old AT&T / BellSouth argument that they should own the phones and lease them to you. Guess what, Cable companies aren't supplying that digital converter for free. It costs more to rent that box than the extra that local channels cost on Satellite.
As for DVR, the DVR's supplied by either cable or satellite companies are low end models. If they fit your needs, go for it. If you want the latest and greatest, buy or build your own.
I say DirectTV is the way to go.
I have been a Dish Network customer for over 6 years, and prefer it over cable. I have an 80 Gb PVR with my system, and get 180 channels for under $45/month. The signal used to go out (but only during HEAVY rain) with the older systems, but since I upgraded to their 500 network, I cannot recall a single outage.
The only drawback with the DSS systems is that local channels may not be available (or if they are available, will run you an extra $5 per month)
From what I have seen, the DSS and cable companies offerings are pretty much equal. it really will boil down to what channels you want, at what price each service offers that selection, and then the service of those companies. Dish had soem serious growing pains a few years ago, but they seem to mostly be over them (or I have just gotten used to them).
My local cable company (TWC - who provides my internet access at home) has a terrible track record for billing issues, and if DSL were available where I live, I would dump TWC in a heardbeat soi that I don't give them any more money.
I don't know much about digital cable but I can tell you a few things about DirecTV having been a subscriber for several years. I live in the Seattle area and it rains here a lot. We have never had a problem with rain fade. The only time my signal drops to a unwatchable level, it is due to someone bumping it on the way up the stairs (dish is in a bad location and easy to bump if you are carting stuff up the stairs.).
The down side is the year long contact you must agree to for service. If you want to cancel early they charge your something like $12/month left on the contact. There is a $5/month charge for equipment per room. And finally DirecTV has had great problems getting me a bill in the mail each month. I don't really know why, but I had to start paying my bills online just to make sure they didn't try to ding me for late fees.
Finally, I would like to point out DirecTV's private war on piracy. You might want to check out sites like Freedom Fight and make sure you morally agree with DirecTV's methods of (IMHO) extortion.
Str8Dog
using System.Darkside; public
Go outside and take in the sunshine. Read a book.
If you are so dependent on TV that you need an "emergency backup", you have problems indeed.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
One BIG advantage that DirecTV w/TiVo has is the ability to record two shows at once.
F AQ.htm
Can the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder with TiVo record two shows at once?
Yes, the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder can record two shows at once. In fact, it can even record two shows while you watch a third, previously recorded show. To take full advantage of this feature, you'll need to ensure that two (2) satellite inputs from a dual-LNB Direct TV System dish antenna are connected to the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder.
http://www.free-satellitetv.net/direct%20tv_tivo_
Can't do this with regular TiVo.
sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Comcast is running commercials about how easy it is to lose a satellite connection? I find that amusing because I just canceled my cablemodem net service because I was fed up with all the outages on it. We didn't have cable TV, so maybe that was never impacted when we had the problems, but I never found Comcast to be overly concerned about uptime.
When we first got the cablemodem it was great. That was when it was Excite@Home. The first year we had no outages at all, it was rock solid. Then after AT&T bought it out, it was still ok, but IIRC we had an outage or two during the next year. The last 8 months of Comcast has just been horrible though.
Anyway, I know you're not looking for cablemodem information. It's just that I choked on my lunch when I saw the thing about Comcast saying the satellite systems suffered from severe outages.
The people I know with satellite don't complain about having problems, and haven't switched to other technology over the the years they've had them, so I'm wondering if it's really anywhere near that bad.
Sean
Yes, the installation monkey aligned the dish in such a way that they had a signal on the day he came and went. That's just so they would sign the form, saying that it was correctly installed.
Have them align it correctly, or get someone else to do it for them. A couple of degrees off in either axis (Or worse, both axis) can make all the difference in the world.
When my DirecTV dish was first installed, I had transponder strengths in the mid-60s. When I realigned the dish myself, most of my transponders are now in the high 80s - low 90s.
I haven't had an outage since. Rain-fade almost never occurs with a properly aligned dish.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
This isn't true. A standalone Tivo will work anywhere - cable, sattelite, antenna, whatever else somebody can come up with. I personally have used my series 1 Tivo with both analog cable and Dish sattelite with zero compatibility problems with either.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My parents still have the big huge dish in thier yard. You can get some pretty interesting stuff if you are willing to pay for the tech. Of course it IS a dying technology, but it is pretty interesting how they are trying keep it alive through things like 4dtv and mpeg sidecars.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
I in a Comcast area (suburban Illinois) and have been through almost every configuration they have both regular and digital. I had DirecTV and Dish Network back in Phonenix, but now I just moved back to DirecTV.
My biggest desire to move back to DirecTV was HDTV. I feel that DirecTV in the long term will provide better HD options that local cable. Couple that with almost every HD DirecTV receiver able to tune to HD over-air broadcasts and provide local channels via Satellite or over-air, there is little that cable can possibly offer over DirecTV.
I did lots of studying. The most annoying thing is that Comcast doesn't even want to begin to provide you details about when they will offer HDTV in my area, though they advertise it on TV.
As far as reception. I was a bit concerned about the "we loose our signal all the time" and all I can say, mounted on my roof, I get strong signal all the time, even in the snow. I know that heavy weather (it is the water) can distort the signal and you have to be careful if your dish builds up snow, but if that does become an issue, there are several workarounds including sprays, covers and other items that make sure your LNB doesn't get "watered" down.
I totally hated the Digital Cable. They over compress the channels and the receivers were about as slow as molassass.
My DirecTV install experience was excellent, a lot better than my cable, where they didn't even know what they were doing. I expected to have to educate the DirecTV guy (since I have quite an extensive custom built whole house distribution system) but he didn't have a problem and did a very professional clean install. The cable guy just did his thing but the DirecTV guy asked permission before doing any physical changes.
I am VERY happy with the programming selection on DirecTV versus Comcast. They just are damn good at what they do. Calling them recently about getting CBS-HD for the superbowl was super easy and very friendly. Lot better than calling my local cable franchise.
Well, there are my two cents...
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
I recently bought a house in a neighborhood where "free" (i.e., subsidized) cable is part of what your HOA dues pay for. I pay nothing extra for "extended basic" cable from my local cable company. Because of this, my cable modem service is discounted by $10 per month, and I could upgrade to digital cable for $11 a month.
However, I have DirecTV, and have had it for about 7 years now, and I'm very happy with it. I recently bought a couple of TiVo-integrated receivers, and the convenience and picture quality is excellent.
I've retasked my standalone TiVo (formerly connected to a Sony SAT-B2 DirecTV receiver) to connect to the "free" cable. This TiVo has been upgraded to 193 hours of basic quality, so I record nearly everything on Best quality. The picture quality still sucks. The picture I get from my cable company is significantly inferior to what I get from DirecTV. Before my wife and I got married, she had digital cable in her apartment, and its picture quality was not as consistently good as DirecTV's is.
I know that even by cable company standards, my lousy analog cable picture is abnormally bad. I also know that with Rupert Murdoch taking over at DirecTV, things are likely to go downhill in picture quality there. It's a tough call to make, but for now, I'm sticking with DirecTV and I'm not impressed with cable in my neighborhood.
The reason all satellite tv requires the dish to point south is that the only way to get a geostationary orbit is over the equator.
Most places broadcast an analog signal along side the digital, so you might be able to just plug the Tivo directly into the cable feed and use the analog. This also saves unencoding MPEG and then reencoding it again. Analog is crappier sometimes, but I would think actually getting the correct channel recorded might be more important.
I had horrible experience with cable back when DirecTV was starting up. I had the cable de-installed and the service man said "Well there are two choices for cable here, OURS or YOURS." I took the DirecTV boxes out of my car at that point and said "I'll take mine."
I wouldn't ever go back to cable. I now have multiple DirecTiVos. The integrated receiver/TiVo is better in that it has two tuners so watch one, record two more at the same time is possible. Unlike the standalone, however, you can't record local off-the-air, or video in. It is generally cheaper than standalones as well, and the subscription may be moot depending on what channel package you order.
TiVo is very hacker friendly (network options and upgrade disk capacity cheap and easy, and web access, etc.). DirecTv enables all the DirecTiVos from one master subscription. I originally choose lifetime, they've since made TiVo service free with most of the "packaged" services.
Now as to weather. We get some severe weather in the Puget Sound convergence zone. I get maybe 2-3 minutes of bad (LOS) rain fade a month for the six rainest months. The signal on the spot-beam (local channels) has never disapperaed. I get occasional macro-block errors (looks like bad pixelation on part of the image) another 4-5 minutes a month. I could correct all these problems by going to a 1 meter dish now that the Channel Master "Gain Master" antenna is around. I didn't want to go bigger earlier because previous 1 meter dishes mounted a single LNB assembly (still dual channel, just points at one sat.). The Gain Master supports all the satellites. It should eliminate all the rain fade issues. I should also point out we are in a non-optimal position as a ridge with trees and houses blocks a portion of the sky where the sat. is. Cable is just not truthful. I have less outages now than anytime I've ever had cable and I am in a very poor site as far as the satellites are concerned.
The last point is that regardless of cable or sat. you will lose signal twice a year for a few minutes a day for 1-3 days as the sun is directly behind the sat you are pointed at. For cable this is spread over a wider range as they point at multiple sats. DirecTv hosts the majority of their programming on a single "slot" at 101.5 degrees. However HDTV (and some other local and foriegn language programming) has program content at 110 degrees and NASA Select (and some foriegn language content) sits at 119 degrees. So to get NASA you'll need multiple LNB assemblies, but it is still one dish (although if you wanted the maximum signal strength with reasonable install and cost, you could point a 1 meter dish at each sat. If you are in a real fring area, like Alaska, there are 2 meter, 3 meter and larger dishes, or you can fixed mounth a C band bigger dish and mount the LNB to it. Hope this helps.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
I expected more, too, but got the same results. I'm returning their crappy space heater "receiver" and have dropped the digital cable altogether. Back to extended basic/analog for me. It worked for crap with my TiVo because I had to use the IR link, which was slow and missed changes even when I built the little tin foil shield tent.
The reciever heated up so much, I used to have problems with my DVD player. The quality on the HBO stations, way up in digital land, was atrocious. I've seen fewer compression artifacts in bad pr0n scans on USENET (and believe me, I've seen a lot of 'em). When I'm paying extra for those premium stations, I expect better, which is exactly what I told the customer service rep. They said that digital cable is a great value and that they were sorry I was unhappy with the service.
Screw Comcast and their awful digital cable. I'm going to make shadow puppets.
Yeah it really sucks. Just yesterday, last seconds of the game, kicker is going for the field goal and BLAM! some guy impaled himself on our antennae. Peeled him off but it was no good, the game was over.
Buy a bigger dish. Here in Alaska, 18" dishes wont even work. Minimal size is 30". Personally, we ended up with a 1.2 meter dish which is more immune to weather. (Our Dish network transponders vary from 60-80 in strength, with 125 on the spotbeam.) My friend went for the gold and bought a 2 meter dish. ChannelMaster makes all of these dishes for consumers to buy.
Also, not sure how long your cable to your dish is? Buy some Belden 1694A cable, low loss serial digital interconnect RG6, and have it terminated with Canare F connectors on both ends. Doesnt make much difference for signals under 1 ghz, but can make a huge difference for higher signals depending on your existing cabling. I've ran my Dish on 350 feet of this cable with only a few points of signal loss on the highest frequencies coming from the LNB. (Check www.bluejeancable.com for a pre-made source of these cables. Or www.haveinc.com if you want to build it all yourself.)
and most features that you'd find in a Tivo.
I presume that you've never owned a TiVo before then.
I'll admit -- I've never owned the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 DVR (which is what the Comcast and TW boxes actually are), but there's a couple of good pages to read about the differences and just how feature poor the cable PVRs are.
Want a quick summary? Very poor searching, amazingly poor recording management, poor conflict resolution, barely adequate playback controls, and crappy live tv support. Oh, and it's less stable to boot.
The only upside is that the hardware is usually free and has a low monthly cost. That's great, except that Dish has a free PVR as well, and DirecTV with TiVo is only $99. Both have a monthly fee, but it's pretty much the same as the cable ones (and with DirecTV it's waived w/ the top of the line package). Oh, and that fee is once per household, not once per unit -- at least for sat.
And, of course, the signal quality is better over sat than it is from cable -- particularly for the analog channels (usually anything under 100, sometimes anything under 80, depends on your cable carrier).
Personally, I switched from my cable company (Charter) to DirecTV last October. My picture quality went up, I added about a dozen channels, and my monthly charge went down. Even with the forthcoming DirecTV price increases (all of $3 for me -- I can't think of a cable hike that was that little) I'll be paying less for more. Oh, and unlike cable, my TV doesn't go out randomly or with any really severe storm.
I have DirecTV with TiVo (commonly called DirecTiVo), the dual-tuner box.
I'm not a big fan of Rupert Murdoch, and he's either in the process of purchasing, or has already completed his purchase of, DirecTV. That said:
1. I've had years of mostly trouble-free service. No (zero) outages due to rain or wind. Since I'm in southern california, I can speak to windy days and days-long rain deluges, but I can't speak to snow. YMMV.
2. The problems I have experienced have been with the TiVo unit, but those problems have been so rare and so easily fixed (usually without calling tech support; I just go to AVSforums and check out their DirecTiVo forum for advice) that I can't say it's been anything but a delight.
3. Once upon a time, I worked for a cable company. Having been on the "other side", I can honestly tell you that I avoid cable like the plague unless there's a compelling reason not to. There's always the possibility that the same kind of shenannigans go on at the satellite providers, but it's kind of like KNOWING someone spits in your food at a specific restaurant, vs. merely suspecting it at another -- you're gonna stop going to the first restaurant, even though you might or might not keep going to the second.
You can use a normal standalone tivo with any source. A dedicated satellite tivo (currently) has several advantages over using an SA tivo for satellite, though:
1. No need for any sort of control cable or "IR blaster" or serial connection to make your standalone tivo control your cable or satellite tuner box.
2. Two built-in tuners. Record two shows at the same time, while watching a third that you've already recorded. This is freaking fantastic, and I hope we start seeing 2-tuner SA tivos as well.
3. Pure digital recording. With a DirecTivo, it records the digital stream straight off the satellite. If you use an SA tivo and a satellite tuner box, the stream gets decoded by the satellite box and then re-encoded to mpeg by the tivo. You'll see quality loss.
Anyway, just wanted to lay it all out. An SA tivo works with everything, and is truly in its element with analog cable. A DTivo is fantastic and has several advantages, but is can't be used for anything but DirecTV.
... because they offer more channels for less money and their encoding quality is (usually) better (my experience based on DISH Network; can't speak for DirecTV.) Satellite wins hands down in almost all categories: quality, value, programming choice, reliability, equipment choice and customer service.
... satellite offers more channels (especially DISH) than most cable MSO's for less money. Locals too in most markets, and HDTV which cable co's have been painfully slow to adopt.
;-) and limited aggregate bandwidth.
Quality and value... satellite providers have more total bandwidth (about 2-4x) to work with than the typical hybrid fiber-coax cable plant. Being all digital they don't have to carry legacy analog channels. So, they have less need to compress heavily than the cable guys do and so can offer more channels at lower cost.
Programming
Reliability... as much as the cable ads make of it, it's a total non-issue with satellite. It's amazingly robust. In the three years on DISH I had one (!) outage due to rain fade, and then only for about 30 seconds or so. Compare this to my experience with cable providers (in my case Charter, now Adelphia) who seem to have several outages a year: distribution amps blowing up, segments taken down for maintenance/upgrades, and so forth.
Equipment... the satellite providers seem to adopt new tech more quickly than the cable MSO's. They embrace newer media (like HDTV, PVR's, etc.) more enthusiastically than the cable heavyweights do. This has a lot to do with the business model: generally, they unbundle the box from the service (you own the box) so you have choice. Some perceive this as a drawback; however when you look at the poor quality of most cable boxes vs. their rental cost you can see you get a better shake from DirecTV or DISH.
Customer service... DISH is awesome, can't speak for DirecTV although I understand they've improved too. In my case DISH patiently worked with me to debug a complex HDTV setup using a 5200 IRD, HDTV modulator and a Mistubishi HD set. Another time they broke 'seamless integration' with a firmware upgrade, they fixed it in two days (!) after I reported it to them.
Now, the satellite drawbacks...
First, there's no 'analog only' option so you're always looking at MPEG-2 and thus have slower channel surfing (not to mention your TV's P-I-P is mostly useless.) I understand there are IRD's with two decoders now.
Second, satellite broadband is poor due to the up/down latency (c = 300,000 km/s, it's the law
Third, you do have to mount the antenna. Some quibble about this but it's not a big deal: installation and gear are free if you buy a package; it's a simple DIY project if you prefer to run your own.
Most users need only one dual-LNB antenna. DISH needs a second one aimed at 61.5 or 148 if you want some of the 'non-core' programming, such as their slate of international channels (including Al-Jazeera and World Link TV - gotta get your Karachi Kops somehow) and some of the HDTV feeds. If your locals aren't on the core sats (110 and 119) DISH will install the second antenna free.
Also, before you commit to satellite, you need to verify that you have a clean sight line to the bird(s.) DISH has a tool you can download to get your azimuth and elevation to each bird. For the continental US the core satellites are at 101, 110 and 119 deg. - generally due south for most people. You do need to mount the antenna(s) on something that doesn't move - a nearby tree won't do it. If you're unsure about any of this have an installer do a site survey for you prior to entering into a contract.
If these drawbacks aren't a concern for you... then your next choice is DirecTV or DISH.
Three things should dictate your choice: programming, equipment and service.
Programming... DirectTV has NFL Sunday Ticket, DISH does not. DISH has lots of international programming, DirecTV does not. Other than that their lineup is nearly identical, but... to
Disclaimer: Until just recently, I worked for DirecTV (left of my own volition for a more flexible job). That said, here is my honest opinion and/or observations about your questions:
;-)
Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact).
This is bullshit. Many cable companies, including my own (CableOne), make similar statements. Consider the source.
If your dish is properly aligned, the weather has to be quite severe to interrupt your signal. If it is quite severe, you will probably get signal interruptions, freeze-framing, pixelization, etc.
A few anecdotal examples:
My grandmother has a sparse tree (not sure of the species, it has leaves so is not a pine) directly in front of her dish. When I visited during the monsoon season, most of her transponders had a signal strength of 75-85. DirecTV recommends a signal strength of 70 or higher in clear weather to prevent signal loss in trivially bad weather. 80, IMO, is a safer number to shoot for. If you are a true geek, you will probably fine tune it to get it in the high 90's.
- I have never lost picture, even in fairly severe snowstorms. I made sure my dish was well aligned though.
If the dish is poorly aligned usually due to a customer self-installation or due to an installation by Halstedt Communications, an installation company known by DirecTV employees for being almost universally incompetent. Unofficially, of course.
What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception?
Digital cable and DirecTV have a nearly identical picture quality from what I have seen. Many channels in "digital" cable packages are analog, then you pay to add a set of digital channels on top of the analog base package. Analog picture quality varies based on a great number of factors, and IMO goes from "fairly decent" to "almost as good as pure digital." IIRC, DirecTV's picture is 480^2 MPEG-2 video, but I cannot recall for sure. Digital cable is probably the same or similar.
Weather does not effect picture quality at all. Generally, you either have it or you don't. Freeze-framing and pixelization can occur with very bad signal strength, but I consider this "not having it at all"
If all but obviously severe weather effects your satellite signal, call and have your vendor come and fix it. There is no reason that you should have to put up with losing your signal more than during a couple of really bad storms per year, and even then, not for more than half an hour (unless the storm lasts quite a long time).
Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."
All vendors' PVRs except DirecTV's are very basic. Tivo is, IMHO, simply a superior service, giving you much more than just recording. HOWEVER, it does have a monthly fee. Some PVR services (the very basic ones) do not.
A few important notes:
If you get a Tivo for anything other than DirecTV,
the recording will not really be digital. Non-DirecTV Tivos are designed to accept an analog signal (to be compatible with a wide variety of TV services), so that analog signal is converted to digital to actually record to disk, then back to analog again for playback. If you have a digital connection from your RV to Tivo, only the one conversion takes place.
Tivo for non-DirecTV is also much more expensive. $12.00USD per month last time I checked. It is $4.99 for DirecTV customers (whether you use a DirecT
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
On the other hand, if you use a TiVo, and always record on the lowest quality, you're not going to notice too much of a difference with satellite, though bad weather will noticably chop up the signal (wind and wildlife vibrating or reaiming the dish, dense clouds/fog, heavy rain, ice forming on it in cold weather, snow buildup, etc), I remember when times were better and I shared a 4BR/2BA house with a bunch of friends and we could easily afford every channel DirecTV offered, nice clear warm night, open all the doors and windows, and turn on a movie with a signal so clear you would have thought you were on analog cable and lived inside the headend.
Broadband, however...I've had Verizon and Qwest and some time or another for a DSL provider. They both suck so bad that I don't even trust them with my landline anymore, they lost my business to Vonage. Cable is the least of all evils. They'll let you get internet service a-la carte without television if you want (which is how we did it in said big-ass house, plus half of us worked for @Home, so we got 30Mbps/10Mbps for free anyway). The half of us in that house that worked for @Home, both used and loved @Home. I knew, at the time, about as many people who worked for Qwest and one guy who worked for Verizon. All the guys who worked for Qwest really had a hard time even selling their service to their customers, and were @Home customers themselves and loved cable. The guy from Verizon might know where the power button on a computer is if it's got a big, neon sign flashing, pointing at it, and the button itself is illuminated and clearly labelled.
The correct answer should be intuitive by this point. 8:o)
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An important note:
Many problems with installations are from people ordering their stuff from a backwater sleezeball company.
I recommend you get your stuff directly from DirecTV or from a reputable vendor like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.
Calling 1-800-DIRECTV does not necessarily get you to DirecTV itself!
It is a national # setup to route you to a local dealer.
If you want to actually get your stuff from direcTV, call the general customer service phone # at 800-355-5000 and do whatever you need to do to talk to someone from the phone menu. It doesn't matter who. Then, ask for the sales department. They will ask if you have a credit card (say YES) and if you have ever had DirecTV before (say NO).
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
A friend of mine, had a dish for 6 months, we hang out at his house all the time to drink, watch movies, sports, etc.
:P
Durring this time, there was a huge blizard that rolled through. The picture quailty was really bad, when there was signal at all. We had to keep going outside to clean the dish off. If anything gets inside it, it will start crapping out.
Durring normal rain, you will notice little "bleeps" here and there on the picture. Typically, it only happens 2 times durring a 1 hour show and its very minor. However, durring very heavy down pours, the signal disappears. At times, there is signal but its unbareable to even look at.
The only times wind will affect your signal, is if your dish isn't properly secured. Any movment on the dish will create poor signal. Of course things like leaves, branchs, acorns, etc will create problems.
Now, he moved over to digital cable. It rocks, very little downtime at all. Plus, ondemand is great. Just make sure you get the best package they have. Starz and Cenimax are the best ondemand packages out there. The movie selection is generally much better. Depending on your cable provider, they are usually free access as long as you have the big package. I rent over 100 movies a month with it for free. Beats renting from the video store. But, the video store is going to have a better selection
I would recommend what others have suggested. Get cable first, try it for a few months, then switch to the dish. The dish companys are giving out good deals to people who switch from cable. Try it for a few months, if you don't like it vs cable, many cable companys are giving out the same deals to switch back.
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