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Cable TV Versus Satellite TV?
rufey writes "In the next few weeks I'll be moving and am thinking about getting either cable TV or satellite. I don't need broadband Internet (I use DSL), so getting cable TV bundled with broadband is not an option I'm considering. Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact). What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception? Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."
I've only had experience with the DVR Time/Warner cable was offering and it wouldn't let you time-shift anything but PPV content, but I don't know if that applies to Comcast as well. If it does, you could stick a TiVO or your own DVR into the equation, but then what you're doing is decoding the MPEG from your cable provider, then reencoding it back into MPEG when it gets saved to the hard disk, which sucks. This is assuming you're getting digital cable of course.
The satellite DVR packages on the other hand will save the MPEG stream directly to the hard disk, so you can view it later without loss of image quality.
This is all the more important if you're thinking about going with HDTV. DirecTV is about to come out with a HD-DVR made in conjunction with TiVO. DishNetwork's HD-DVR is already out, but it will set you back a cool thousand.
If there was actually something worth watching on TV beside porn, I'd get the latter, if for no other reason than that DirecTV won't carry porn, but seeing as how Murdoch has bought DirecTV from Hughes that's probably about to change.
The consensus on rec.video.satellite.dbs seems to be that weather really doesn't affect image quality (though this may not be true for HD content) but that airplanes, helicopters, birds and people falling off of your roof can and do. That said, it supposedly causes only minor artifacting (which you're going to get anyways given the aggressive compression the providers use... watch Star Trek: TNG on Spike TV sometime and watch the signal lose sync everytime somebody fires a phaser.)
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
I use DVR with Time Warner Cable, which has always been just great for me. It has an 80GB HD and most features that you'd find in a Tivo.
Domain name registration for $8.79 per year
879domains.co
I've had Directv for about 4 years and overall I'm very happy. Around here (Northern Virginia) our cable provider sucks and I don't have to give them a cent for providing their usually lousy service.
Directv signal is usually very good but I have had problems with loss of signal during severe thunderstorms and when snow covers the dish.
Other than that, I'm pretty happy with my satellite service.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
Come on slashbots, and set yourself free - Kill your TV!
I've been tv free for 4 years now - and would never consider going back.
there is much more to life than watching a piece of furniture.
... hi bingo
...neither? Sell the TV, and where your entertainment center would be, put a bookcase. I cut back to basic cable and though i "miss" some shows, I dont miss wasting countless hours on the couch .....i cant even tell you what "reality shows" are on these days....
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
Get yourself DirecTV with Tivo built-in. I bought one nearly 2 years ago, added another hard drive and
truly enjoing it. Plus DirecTV is better then cable..... Thats my 2c...
As long as your dish is secure and the transmission is working, you will have virtually no problems from weather. This is BS from the Cable companies.
I've never had a problem due to inclement weather although we don't get fierce lightning storms where I live so I don't know if that makes a difference.
I would choose the service based on the programming.
M
I have comcast, and they took Tech TV (ZDTV) out of their lineup about a year ago. If you like that channel, you better call and see if they have it. Since then, I've got 3 telemundos, 4 'womens' channels, the golf channel, etc. They don't even have tech tv on digital cable here either. I'm interested in seeing what other people post about this, because I would like to get tech tv again!
I have dish and I love the fact that they cost so much less than Time Warner cable in the Austin area. I recently moved into an apartment and unfortunately it faces the wrong way apparently and I can't get reception. I wish the dish could point somewhere other than southwest because then I'd be golden. And for about the same service dish costs half what cable does.
I'm a student living in an area with Comcast.. For the first two years we had Comcast because we're all used to having cable. It was okay, nothing special.. Eventually, I got fed up with Comcast not carrying some channels I wanted (Food Network and TechTV) and they kept inching the price up. I found DirecTV had a deal for three free months and a monthly fee less than that of cable.
Installation was a slight pain because we live in an apartment and couldn't mount the dish onto the building.. I bought a $25 tripod and a $3 piece of pipe (as the installer suggested, since it's cheaper than buying it from them). The reception is clear but you do notice some artifacts once in a while (similar to what a DivX looks like) in the picture due to the compression. The local channels are actually clearer than they were with cable and we get a lot more good channels. We've only lost the signal twice from two bad storms when our tripod literally tipped over. None of this "vanishing signal" like the cable commercials imply. Heck, we lost the cable signal at least once or twice a year during a bad storm. It doesn't degregate during storms, but we don't get snow, which I hear really kills the signal.
Overall, I'm glad we switched.. If you're happy with basic extended cable channels, I'd stick with comcast. If you want some of the extra channels, go satellite. I'm not sure which has NASAtv or if it's an add-on channel or something.. I see now that you can get a Tivo for cheap if you sign up for satellite and I think the Tivo monthly service fee is less also.
I've only had one outage in the year and half that I have had Dish Network, and that was only during a bad snow storm. I've heard other complaints about losing signal during rain, or cloudy days, but have not experienced them myself.
My parents have Comcast and it glitches out all the time, with the screen pulsating with lines across the screen. They've also had random outages for no apparent reason. Comcast just replaces the reciever hoping to fix the problem, but it never does. I've also been told by Comcast installers that most of the equipment they're using is refurb and they have troubles all the time.
I only need the Preview button when I haven't used the Preview button.
I've had DirecTV in the Seattle area for years. LOTS of rain and clouds. The only times I've lost signal is when the rain and clouds were so thick that it was dark at noon. Usually I had other problems occupying my attention at those times... :-\
I recently added a DirecTIVO (HDRV3) and added a 160GB drive to it. This makes a GREAT setup. Anytime I sit down, there is something that I WANT to see on. I do get NASA TV as well.
I'll put it this way: my cable modem has had more downtime than my satellite TV over the last two years, and every time I've checked, the cable TV feed has also been messed up whenever the cable modem has had trouble.
Plus, if you get an integrated DirecTV/TiVo receiver, you get to time-shift your shows with zero quality loss. With a standalone TiVo there's an extra D/A conversion between the satellite receiver and the video cable, then an A/D conversion and a lossy compression step to get from the cable onto the TiVo's hard disk. I quite enjoy being able to make pristine archive DVDs of my favorite shows without any re-encoding at all.
One major problem with that. DirecTV most certainly *does* have PORN. Something like 6 or so channels, plus it's offered on a few of the PPV channels in addition to Spice, Hot Network, Playboy, etc. Good stuff too. Not just the HBO/Skinimax R rated soft-core crap, but real honest PORN.
And yeah, I posted this anonymously for a reason. :)
Weather doesn't necessarily cause problems for satellite channels. I paid a little extra to install oversized dishes (30" - 36"), and during the worst rain or snow my reception is always good.
I've got DirecTV with a DirecTivo that was provided in a package deal (Sony T60). It has been a wonderful combination. I have yet to be unhappy in any way, shape, or form. At the time, I got the DVR for $99 as I was a first time DirecTV subscriber. I would encourage you to get some similar deal. I had digital cable before and couldn't stand it after sampling DirecTV at a friends house. You will NOT be disappointed. Now, I understand that the HD Tivos will be coming out soon (the current Tivos do not support High Def)...you might want to wait until one of these hits the market (quite possibly combined with the rather new feature of being able to burn your shows to DVD). I'd guess this happens in the 2 to 6 month range, though I'm not sure how long (if ever) the combo HD/DVD/DirecTV units will be in coming.
About two years ago, I got extremly pissed off with Cox Digital Cable (Every day for an hour or so, all the premium movie channels would go black; they kept sending techs, no one could find a problem)
I switched to DirecTV and haven't looked back since. Now, granted I'm in Phoenix so weather isn't exactly a factor here. But, even with the monsoons in the summer, i've only lost picture about 1 or 2 times, and that was only for a short duration.
When I saw that Best Buy was selling a DirecTV receiver/Tivo unit for $99, I jumped on it. We had a Tivo already but this was one unit, smaller, bigger drive, two inputs, and dolby built it.
I couldn't be any happier, and i'm glad i went this route.
No I'm not a paid endoreser of them, nor do I wish to Spam, but in my experience, for $45/month for 150 channels (including NASA TV, all the basic channels but no premiums like HBO) amongst other wonderful channels with real content, I stay happy. Good value for my $ if you ask me.
Adelphia is the local cable company in my area, and while they have a promo rate of $19/month for 3 months I'm awfully suspicous of that rate after my 3 months are up and they are not willingly disclosing it. They seem kinda scummy to me.
Near as I can tell, weather conditions don't affect Satellites much either. My Satellite was doing just fine in big rainstorms here (I was a bit nervous about turning on my equipment in a big thunderstorm here not too long ago tho so I can't vouch for thunderstorms). My Dad who lives up in the mountains and has had many snowstorms has never complained about any issues with his Satellites (tho in all Fairness he's a DISH subscriber).
DVR? Can't help you there, people have been telling me to get one but they're appeal to me is limited.
Internet access? I've been told it's ok if not quite a bit laggy, but no firsthand experience myself either. For my high speed Internet I use DSL quite happily (again avoiding Adelphia like the plaque).
In short Satellite I think is a good value for the $. However your experiences may vary.
...in bed
My personal experiance on this (DirecTV Subscriber 7 years, Time Warner Analog and Digital for 5 years) is that Digital Satellite beats Digital Cable hands down.
Everything that the cable companies say (with the exception of the dog sneezing) may be true, but it's exaggerated to the point of borderline lies.
If your dish is aimed to achieve a signal in the "85%" range, which is quite easy to do, you won't have much of any problem with rain or weather fades. With mine, a 90% signal, I was able to watch TV reliable during a tropical storm in Houston. The few times I have lost signal, it was back up within minutes.
With Digital Cable, I discover that I lose signal anytime they're working on a line, construction hits a cable, flooding at their office, you name it. *At Least* a full day outage every month or two.
As for channels, Who has what depends on what day of the week it is. I believe NASA TV is carried by DirecTV. I'm not sure about Comcast, as they don't sell in my area.
Cable touts how owning your own equipment is bad. This reminds me of the old AT&T / BellSouth argument that they should own the phones and lease them to you. Guess what, Cable companies aren't supplying that digital converter for free. It costs more to rent that box than the extra that local channels cost on Satellite.
As for DVR, the DVR's supplied by either cable or satellite companies are low end models. If they fit your needs, go for it. If you want the latest and greatest, buy or build your own.
I say DirectTV is the way to go.
In some apartments (in what I feel is a violation of FCC rules but what the FCC feels isn't) they require that you place large amounts of money down on a "deposit" just to put the dish on the porch (regardless of the fact that it might be free standing).
See here for a quick link I found. Note: (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use, or
Forcing me to pay $350 deposit (of which only $75 is refunded at the END of your renting) seems to push the FREE installation costs over "reasonable".
So, Comcast is prewired into the building and I have no choice but to use the good 'ol rabbit ears.
I have been a Dish Network customer for over 6 years, and prefer it over cable. I have an 80 Gb PVR with my system, and get 180 channels for under $45/month. The signal used to go out (but only during HEAVY rain) with the older systems, but since I upgraded to their 500 network, I cannot recall a single outage.
The only drawback with the DSS systems is that local channels may not be available (or if they are available, will run you an extra $5 per month)
From what I have seen, the DSS and cable companies offerings are pretty much equal. it really will boil down to what channels you want, at what price each service offers that selection, and then the service of those companies. Dish had soem serious growing pains a few years ago, but they seem to mostly be over them (or I have just gotten used to them).
My local cable company (TWC - who provides my internet access at home) has a terrible track record for billing issues, and if DSL were available where I live, I would dump TWC in a heardbeat soi that I don't give them any more money.
I'm pretty happy with cable and now that a friend who workd for AOL/Time Warner pointed out a little secret, I'll be even more so.
Cable companies make money by selling those pre-configured 'packages' of channel choices. With digital cable, however, it's quite simple for them to control which channels your receiver displays. By law, the cable companies MUST allow you to pick and choose which channels you wish to pay for.
Finally, being able to get all the Discovery channels whilst avoiding the shite like AMC or other such ilk.
I've used both satellite (dish network) and comcast cable. Let me tell you, I've had more outages with comcast than with dish. The dish only went out when it was an ice storm. And let me tell you, I didn't even have power half the time. Every time it rains here, literally my cable goes out. Don't believe the ads saying they lost the "pitcha".
I don't know much about digital cable but I can tell you a few things about DirecTV having been a subscriber for several years. I live in the Seattle area and it rains here a lot. We have never had a problem with rain fade. The only time my signal drops to a unwatchable level, it is due to someone bumping it on the way up the stairs (dish is in a bad location and easy to bump if you are carting stuff up the stairs.).
The down side is the year long contact you must agree to for service. If you want to cancel early they charge your something like $12/month left on the contact. There is a $5/month charge for equipment per room. And finally DirecTV has had great problems getting me a bill in the mail each month. I don't really know why, but I had to start paying my bills online just to make sure they didn't try to ding me for late fees.
Finally, I would like to point out DirecTV's private war on piracy. You might want to check out sites like Freedom Fight and make sure you morally agree with DirecTV's methods of (IMHO) extortion.
Str8Dog
using System.Darkside; public
Used to live in a house where I had Dish Network. It was fine, carried NASA-TV, etc. EXPENSIVE though - my bill for 'most everything was more than $100/mo. It would rarely go out -- usually not -during- storms, but just before -- anywhere from 30 sec to 30 min. It'd have to be a pretty good sized storm coming in, though. Moved to the city and now I have Time Warner Cable. It's cheaper (about $80) for everything, AND YOU CAN GET A DIGITAL CABLE BOX WITH A BUILT-IN DVR. Very very useful. Works in all respects similar to TiVo except for the automatic taping of things it thinks you'd be interested in. There's an additional $6/mo charge to use it... That being said, channel choices are not as good - no NASA TV. All in all, I'm impressed with TW. Their customer service is pretty good, the installer was plesant and on-time when the service was set up, and in six months of service (knock wood), I've not had a single outage on my cablemodem or TV service. Cablemodem is FAST too - 3mbps down, 384kbps up.
I've had satellite service for about five years. I get one or two outages a year due to heavy snowfall. These are easily resolved with the high-tech dish-snow-removal tool (the Mk.I broom duct-taped to a pipe). No other weather-related outages ever.
Judging from neighbourhood heresay, this is orders of magnitude more reliable than Comcast's cable service (I'm in Salt Lake City).
Go outside and take in the sunshine. Read a book.
If you are so dependent on TV that you need an "emergency backup", you have problems indeed.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
One BIG advantage that DirecTV w/TiVo has is the ability to record two shows at once.
F AQ.htm
Can the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder with TiVo record two shows at once?
Yes, the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder can record two shows at once. In fact, it can even record two shows while you watch a third, previously recorded show. To take full advantage of this feature, you'll need to ensure that two (2) satellite inputs from a dual-LNB Direct TV System dish antenna are connected to the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder.
http://www.free-satellitetv.net/direct%20tv_tivo_
Can't do this with regular TiVo.
sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Comcast is running commercials about how easy it is to lose a satellite connection? I find that amusing because I just canceled my cablemodem net service because I was fed up with all the outages on it. We didn't have cable TV, so maybe that was never impacted when we had the problems, but I never found Comcast to be overly concerned about uptime.
When we first got the cablemodem it was great. That was when it was Excite@Home. The first year we had no outages at all, it was rock solid. Then after AT&T bought it out, it was still ok, but IIRC we had an outage or two during the next year. The last 8 months of Comcast has just been horrible though.
Anyway, I know you're not looking for cablemodem information. It's just that I choked on my lunch when I saw the thing about Comcast saying the satellite systems suffered from severe outages.
The people I know with satellite don't complain about having problems, and haven't switched to other technology over the the years they've had them, so I'm wondering if it's really anywhere near that bad.
Sean
I've had DirecTV for years and it's great. I live out in the sticks in Washington State and the signal is great; it will get glitchy maybe twice a year during heavy storms. Also occasionally a bush or tree will grow in the dish's line of sight to the sky and has to be trimmed.
I personally don't care for most dish systems (like DISH-on-Demand or whatever) and I really dislike digital cable. Some relatives in the city got digital cable and they seemed to like it, but every time I go over there it seems to be giving a poor signal, or the box takes forever to respond to the remote.
I'd propose a 10-second test. If you can test drive your cable and satellite options at a store or friend's houses, push the "Info" button to try and retrieve program information (synopsis, review, rating information, cast, etc.) In my experience, good quality systems, whether dish or cable, will return the information under 10 seconds. Crappy systems will take 20, 30, 60 seconds, or will just hang and never return. Good luck!
Do you love freedom??? Do you love freedom!!! DO YOU LOVE FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
After moving a few years ago, a "professional" Dish installer put up a new dish for me. I would lose signal in heavy rain. This had never happened to me before. I corrected the problem by A) adjusting the dish, so that it actually pointed at the satellites (One satellite dish - two satellites. It's a good thing), and B) replacing some corroded connectors. Never had a problem since (even in Rochester, NY snowstorms). And yeah - NASA is channel 213.
Don't trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives.
but I'm not gonna read through all the comments...
Most cable providers will have the exact same problems in extreme weather as satellite has.
The cable providers fail to mention that they get most/all of their feeds from satellite. A properly aligned dish will not go out unless under the most extreme weather, in which case the cable satellites are also having problems.
EVERYONE I have heard has said that they moved to satellite and have had none of the problems they mention on TV. The fact of the matter is that satellite is the future and newer technology. Cable is expensive as they have to lay all the cable. In a few more years the satellite dishes should get smaller as tech progresses. Just look at satellite radio (XM). The antenna for that is about 3 inches square. In 5 years or 10 years satellite tv will probably be able to do something a little larger or even that size that you don't have to mount or point in any direction.
I have seen satellite antennas get smaller. They used to be 10 feet across and now they are 18 inches and shrinking. My cable box has not changed in 4 years.
GO FOR SATELLITE, cable blinks out and on too.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
I have had DTV for about 3 years (in two different houses). I have only had a (noticeable) signal loss from rain twice (I think), and I've had more signal loss from snow it seems to be only very short periods of time (I don't lose an hour show, I have 5 seconds of screwed up video and the audio is OK...or maybe I lose video for two minutes and audio for 90 seconds). My DTV outages definitely haven't added up in length to a single outage from my former cable TV provider, which seemed to be something rain related and if it happened after bisness hours they didn't fix until the next bisness day (so a Friday outage killed cable for the whole weekend).
As far as DVRs go before I had DTV I had DISH and a "stand alone" TiVo. I liked it so much I eventually got DTV and the "all in one" TiVo. The down side of the all in one is it won't let you record the audio-only music channels (you can watch them live), if you don't care about such channels then no problem. If you do it is a pain because you TiVo might change channels on you while you watch because you havn't touched the remote recently and it knows there is something on you asked it to record (or it thinks you will really want, and there is some free space on the drive).
I've also been told none of the "home media options" are currently only for stand alone systems. Also there is no combo DVD-writer and Sat-reciever.
On the upside it can record two things at once. Which is great because it means you can just tell it what you like and it can "just do the right thing" without have to tell you "I'm sorry, you are already recording FOO on Chanel X at HH:MM...do you want to record FOO or cancel FOO and get BAR?". Well, at least not as offen. More then two tuners would be nice :-) For me that is more important then the other stuff (esp. since I have had mine long enough that there was no home media option, or DVD writer when I made my choice).
The other upside is once in a while my stand alone TiVo wouldn't quite be able to change the channel so I would get the wrong thing recorded. I tried moving the IR transmitter around, and even at one point making a tinfoil IR sheld/guide. I've never hade that problem with the DTiVo (unless you count when DTV changed FX's channel number and a bunch of my seassion passes stoped recording anything).
Good luck with your choice.
P.S. I pretty much only switched away from DISH to DTV because of the TiVo. If you decide on another PVR or a standalone one I have no real reason to recomend DTV over DISH. I was pretty happy with the service from both.
We've got Dish Network, and in the 1.5 years we've had it, I can't remember ever seeing a bad picture due to the weather. We also have a Replay 5080, and they play nice together. Only bad part is that the Dish box we have can't be controlled via serial cable. We have to use the IR blaster. It's never missed a channel change though, so it isn't a big deal. The picture looks fine to me, but I'm not that picky.
Digital cable will have problems with signal from time to time as well so don't let them lie to you about signal quality. I was at a friends house last night for the SuperBowl and he had all sorts of pixellation problems with the signal to his new LCD set. In my county we have Comcast as the only cable provider and they constantly have outages because the system they inherited (bought) was never built correctly to service the capacity of residents here. My sat (Direct TV) has only had problems when VERY stormy to the point where you shouldn't be watching the TV as lightning may take out more than just signal. Even the recent hurricane didn't disrupt my signal more than 1/2 hour. The service I've had with Direct TV is WAY better than calling the cable company as well. The cable company here doesn't even have a way to speak to a human on the other end. You only get recorded "we are experiencing outages in the following areas (name of cities) and will have them fixed as soon as possible." They don't even give you a realistic timeframe!
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
Yes, the installation monkey aligned the dish in such a way that they had a signal on the day he came and went. That's just so they would sign the form, saying that it was correctly installed.
Have them align it correctly, or get someone else to do it for them. A couple of degrees off in either axis (Or worse, both axis) can make all the difference in the world.
When my DirecTV dish was first installed, I had transponder strengths in the mid-60s. When I realigned the dish myself, most of my transponders are now in the high 80s - low 90s.
I haven't had an outage since. Rain-fade almost never occurs with a properly aligned dish.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
I have comcast at home and to be honest, the quality really sucks. It is like a regular TV with an average reception. every now and then you will loose either picture or sound or even both. Last time it lasted a few minutes but the time before that, it lasted two full days: We lost half of our channels. The decoder sucks ass as far as features and usability are concerned. It heats up a lot and freezes from time to time so you have to reboot it. Not too annoying unless you're not at home and are recording (PVR, VCR, etc...).
I really expected a lot more from "digital cable".
I don't know about the satellite though.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Having used 4 different TV broadcast methods, I've gathered a good amount of experience and knowledge of the pros and cons of each.
Satellite:
Pros
Good Image and Sound Quality
Easy Timeshifting
PVR capability
Easy to use
Can be self-installed
Good packages that often include installation
Availible wherever there is a view of the southern sky
Cons
Signal can be lost in very poor weather (usually takes a heavy snow/lightning storm)
Crappy broadband
PPV is over Dial-up (except for newer 2-way systems)
18" dish sticking out of some part of your house
Routing to another TV requires another reciever unit
Analog Cable:
Pros
Uses Tuner built into TV
Easily routable to another TV without expensive equipment
Half-Decent broadband
Availible in most neighborhoods
Cons
PVR requires external hardware (or you can use a VCR)
No on-screen guide
Expensive for # of channels you get
Mandatory installation, usually expensive ($60+)
Fewer channels
Digital Cable:
Pros
On screen guide in PIP
Creme-de-la-creme tech support
Uses existing cable wire (nice if upgrading from analog)
Older Analog channels + Newer Digital channels
Very good picture and sound quality
Cons
Very expensive
Bunny-Ears reciever unit
Pros
Cheap
No monthly costs
Local channels
Cons
Local channels only
Shaky image quality
Shaky sound quality
Few channels
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
This isn't true. A standalone Tivo will work anywhere - cable, sattelite, antenna, whatever else somebody can come up with. I personally have used my series 1 Tivo with both analog cable and Dish sattelite with zero compatibility problems with either.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
No, really. What do you want with a TV? See films interrupted every couple of minutes by advertisements? See FOX news? See any kind of news?
Have you ever looked at people watching TV? Their mouths hanging open a bit, a glazed look in their eyes... try it some time.
Throw it away. Read a book. Gain several hours PER DAY in free time in which you can code, play computer games, go for a walk, talk to people, read slashdot...
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
...or just get rabbit ears. The only things really worth watching are the occasional DVDs.
The reception with rabbit ears varies with location, but even if the new season of "Friends" comes in all snowy - is that really a problem?
A lot of worthwhile PBS is available via the net now. Or just read the transcripts.
I love, or should say "loved" Tivo. Unfortunately, it DOESN'T work with all cable boxes. Here in Colorado, at least, Comcast uses crappy "General Instruments/Motorola" digital cable boxes that don't accept Tivo's remote commands properly. (Actually, they don't even accept their own very well- very slow). There have been discussions in the various Tivo forums for years about work-arounds. The most common is to tape the Tivo IR sender directly over the IR receiver on the cable box, and then cover the front of both the Tivo and cable box with black electrical tape.
Apparently the Tivo itself has an IR sender built into the front, and the cable box gets easily confused by any other IR activity besides its own remote (and simply locks is IR receiver temporarily), so the extra Tivo IR activity, along with the Tivo remote, really screw it up. Even doing this, Tivo was only able to change the channels properly about 50% of the time at best. With channels above 99, it had less than a 10% success rate. So- I ended up with hours of crap I wouldn't want to watch if I was paid to, while missing my favorite shows.
On the other hand, I had a DirecTV receiver (by Sony) before that worked flawlessly with Tivo, and had a DirecTivo (also by Sony) that worked fantastic. With the exception of a couple of really nasty thunderstorms (with hail), I had no problems at all with my DirecTV system for over 3 years.
The only reason I have cable is my significant other gets it for free because she works for Comcast. If I had to pay for one or the other, I wouldn't hesitate to get DirecTV again and dust off my Tivo.
My parents still have the big huge dish in thier yard. You can get some pretty interesting stuff if you are willing to pay for the tech. Of course it IS a dying technology, but it is pretty interesting how they are trying keep it alive through things like 4dtv and mpeg sidecars.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
OK, I changed to Directv about 5 years ago when I was completely fed up with my local cable company. TCI became AT&T which became Comcast...blah blah blah and I still couldn't get any decent channels. Since then I just have to laugh every time I hear one of the radio ads for the cable company talking about how much sattelite sucks because it can go out because of "rain fade". All I have to say about that is my DSS has NEVER gone dark due to rain...AND I LIVE IN SEATTLE!
"There is always an easy solution to every human problem -neat, plausible, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken
I have DirecTV, and am at a pretty sharp angle from their satellites (longer distance, in Michigan). I also have an oval dish instead of a round one in order to get "Para Todos" service in Spanish for my wife. This means signal meters for both satellites. I get about 68/100 on both satellites. When I had just the round dish, I usually got high 80's. Despite that, I only usually get a broken/lost signals in super-heavy downpours of rain -- maybe three times per year. It could be more, it's not like the TV is on 24-7.
Additionally I get free basic cable from Comcast, who provides my internet connection. So I save a couple of bucks by not getting DirecTV local channels (although Telefutura'd be nice [soccer]).
I use it with an original Sony-built TiVo series 1. It nicely integrates the cable and DirecTV receiver so that I get a single stream of channels, i.e., it's smart enough to use the built-in tuner for cable and to control the DirecTV box for the higher channels. The guide and everything is similarly unbroken. The nice thing about the TiVo series one is it's a geek haven -- it's YOUR box and you can do with it what you will. Checkout "Hacking TiVo" over at Amazon, reviewed here sometime in the past.
My decision is based mostly on the languages and channels offered (i.e., all the Spanish stuff for my wife), so I'd never, ever consider Comcast for all my needs here in Michigan. I imagine that in downtown L.A. the cable options for my needs would be better. But still, I was a DirecTV customer since before I met my wife, so I guess I'm just overall really, really happy with it.
--Jim (me)
I got one of these a few months ago, and even though we don't have some of the features that the stand-alone boxes have, I really enjoy it. The local cable company is about $65 a month for the same channels I get for $45 (including Tivo service) from DirecTV. I get all of the locals that are worth getting, and if I was outside of the area for my locals, I could get national access to ABC,NBC,CBS, etc. for either no cost, or $5 a month.
I have Dish Network, and all of the evil things that Comcast says about rain and wind and leaves in fall are true. Having said that, I have been pretty happy with the PVR they offer. Not TiVo, but sufficient.
Depending on what you watch, and how important picture quality is to you, cable may actually be a better bet. I am in a Comcast service area and am seriously considering switching. For one thing, the local channels on Dish are horrible. They compress them to the point of being unwatchable. This just became clear to me when I bought a big screen television.
The same holds true for the less popular cable channels. Most of the popular channels are pretty good quality. I don't know what bit rate Comcast uses for their channels, but I thought that I would give them a try for a couple of months and do a side by side comparison.
If you have a clean plant, the analog channels are actually much better quality than the digital ones. (I know... flame bait). In a big market, the cable companies take a lot of their feeds directly from the station. A good clean analog signal has 10 to 20 times more picture quality than a compressed signal from Dish network. OTOH, a crappy analog signal is unwatchable. Since they just rebuilt the plant around here, the analog signals look pretty good.
As for the PVR issue, Comcast has just started rolling out the Motrola DVR box. They only have the single tuner model available now, but that's all I have with Dish and it hasn't been a problem. Most programs that I watch are repeated many times so there is always a time when I can record them when I am not watching something else.
Of course, if you are a realityTV or sports junkie, even two tuners may not be enough. In that case, both Dish and DirectTV (and Time-Warner Cable) have dual tuner PVR boxes. You can actually record two channels while you are watching something that was previously recorded. Pretty cool, but a bit much for me. Motorola is coming out with one (HD as well), but it's probably a ways down the road. Comcast is almost totally Motorola.
As far as the broadband issue, I also have DSL, but if I switch to Comcast, I will probably switch to cable modem. Again, it don't cost much to try it out. They offer 3 Mb/s downstream, while DSL limits me to about 1.2 Mb/s.
We've had DirecTV ever since and have had very reliable service -- more reliable than (analog) Comcast, to be honest. We lose the satellite signal in very heavy rain, and usually for only fifteen minutes at most. (We're more likely to lose power than satellite, to be honest.) We've never lost signal due to trees, clouds, wind, ice, snow, steady rain, dogs sneezing, cats coughing, kids screaming, birds crapping, etc.
As for DVRs, we do have a DirecTV TiVo. It's probably not as good as a standalone series 2 TiVo, but I don't know how well a standalone TiVo integrates with DirecTV as compared to a DirecTV TiVo. Works fine, regardless, and we wouldn't give it up.
I in a Comcast area (suburban Illinois) and have been through almost every configuration they have both regular and digital. I had DirecTV and Dish Network back in Phonenix, but now I just moved back to DirecTV.
My biggest desire to move back to DirecTV was HDTV. I feel that DirecTV in the long term will provide better HD options that local cable. Couple that with almost every HD DirecTV receiver able to tune to HD over-air broadcasts and provide local channels via Satellite or over-air, there is little that cable can possibly offer over DirecTV.
I did lots of studying. The most annoying thing is that Comcast doesn't even want to begin to provide you details about when they will offer HDTV in my area, though they advertise it on TV.
As far as reception. I was a bit concerned about the "we loose our signal all the time" and all I can say, mounted on my roof, I get strong signal all the time, even in the snow. I know that heavy weather (it is the water) can distort the signal and you have to be careful if your dish builds up snow, but if that does become an issue, there are several workarounds including sprays, covers and other items that make sure your LNB doesn't get "watered" down.
I totally hated the Digital Cable. They over compress the channels and the receivers were about as slow as molassass.
My DirecTV install experience was excellent, a lot better than my cable, where they didn't even know what they were doing. I expected to have to educate the DirecTV guy (since I have quite an extensive custom built whole house distribution system) but he didn't have a problem and did a very professional clean install. The cable guy just did his thing but the DirecTV guy asked permission before doing any physical changes.
I am VERY happy with the programming selection on DirecTV versus Comcast. They just are damn good at what they do. Calling them recently about getting CBS-HD for the superbowl was super easy and very friendly. Lot better than calling my local cable franchise.
Well, there are my two cents...
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Comcast tells you that they provide digital cable, but all of your basic and extended basic channels (up to the 100s) are still analog. As far as weather goes, Comcast still goes out when a storm rolls over their local property. DirecTV did go out a little bit more often when heavy precipitation occurs, but it's nowhere near ss bad as the cable ads put on.
Comcast also gives me ads on their slow, oversized program guide (provided by TV Guide). When I get program info or use a full-screen menu, they greet me with two. You can even select them with your remote to get more info! Whoopee! They also transmit slowly. At least people who don't purchase any digital packages don't have to put up with them.
As far as picture quality goes, DirecTV still wins. Comcast's signal strength is a problem in my area. They have to work on the area lines about once every three months, and you're generally at their mercy for anywhere from a few hours to a few days. In fact, the analog stations often look better than the digital ones, and sometimes certain digital channels won't be able to find a signal at all. My place had the coaxial cabling rewired throughout when I first moved in, too. There are a lot of blurry edges around objects, much like you'd see with a poorly compressed MPEG. DirecTV's picture is better, although there is about a half second's delay in transmission compared to cable.
Last but not least, Comcast charges more for less. The channels are worse and the packages are grouped so that there's a little bit of everything in each one, rather than grouping them by genre (except for the movie channels). We don't even get basics like the Travel Channel yet. They just now gave us E! and FoodTV.
The only reason that I can see for going with Comcast is to receive local channels in better quality (although DirecTV is picking up the slack in that area). If that isn't a huge sticking point, go with DirecTV.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
I have had Direct TV for 4 years now. I have NEVER had a problem with reception, whether it's in high winds or in torrential rains. Sounds like your cable company is selling FUD.
The next reason is simple, you get more options. If you like the NFL, you can only get NFL SUnday TIcket through Direct TV. It's really nice being able to bring up any game I want on Sunday. Further, with TIVO, I can record my favorite teams games for the entire season! They also do March Madness, Basebal, and Hockey int he same manner. The Sports pay program is awesome.
Finally, Direct TV will be bringing you more HDTV stations faster. They are committed to HDTV, and although the programming is now pretty slim, they are digital ready to broadcast all HDTV stations when the time comes.
My recommendation, get Direct TV with the Tivo box and buy an inexpensive HDTV. That package will set you up for the next decade. It's that good. Enjoy!
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
Before going to a satellite, be certain that you either have an antenna capable of getting local broadcast channels or that your satellite provider will carry the local content you want.
That said, anybody who's posted here that your best option is to quit watching TV altogether is probably right.
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
I live in southeastern Virginia in the Hampton Roads area. When the hurricane hit last fall, the rain was barely sprinkling and the cable TV went down for over a week. My phone service is also tied into the cable so was also down. However, cellular pretty much survived throughout the entire hurricane with only minimal downtime. I laugh everytime I see those cable TV commercials saying their landlines provide better signal quality, etc. After the main storm was over and all the power was out, my family and I sat in our living room and watched DirecTV powered by our generator. :)
If you're unwilling to let go of your TV, then a nice substitution I've found for cable is Netflix. Let's face it. Out of 100+ channels, how often is nothing good on anyway? At least with a DVD subscription you can watch exactly what you want to watch whenever you have time to do so. It also can limit how much TV you watch during the week (which is a GOOD thing :).
I recently bought a house in a neighborhood where "free" (i.e., subsidized) cable is part of what your HOA dues pay for. I pay nothing extra for "extended basic" cable from my local cable company. Because of this, my cable modem service is discounted by $10 per month, and I could upgrade to digital cable for $11 a month.
However, I have DirecTV, and have had it for about 7 years now, and I'm very happy with it. I recently bought a couple of TiVo-integrated receivers, and the convenience and picture quality is excellent.
I've retasked my standalone TiVo (formerly connected to a Sony SAT-B2 DirecTV receiver) to connect to the "free" cable. This TiVo has been upgraded to 193 hours of basic quality, so I record nearly everything on Best quality. The picture quality still sucks. The picture I get from my cable company is significantly inferior to what I get from DirecTV. Before my wife and I got married, she had digital cable in her apartment, and its picture quality was not as consistently good as DirecTV's is.
I know that even by cable company standards, my lousy analog cable picture is abnormally bad. I also know that with Rupert Murdoch taking over at DirecTV, things are likely to go downhill in picture quality there. It's a tough call to make, but for now, I'm sticking with DirecTV and I'm not impressed with cable in my neighborhood.
The reason all satellite tv requires the dish to point south is that the only way to get a geostationary orbit is over the equator.
Most places broadcast an analog signal along side the digital, so you might be able to just plug the Tivo directly into the cable feed and use the analog. This also saves unencoding MPEG and then reencoding it again. Analog is crappier sometimes, but I would think actually getting the correct channel recorded might be more important.
For digital cable, another cable box would be required, not just a cable splitter.
I still use Cable modem as it's the closest thing to getting a fixed ip address, routable, without paying for Business class DSL. I'm not running a business.
We just got Direct TV with Tivo. Can record two programs while watching a 3rd simulataneously.
The Hughs HDVR2 we have also has a 120GB hard drive. A good website on Tivo is http://www.tivocommunity.com
Peter AI6PG
I had horrible experience with cable back when DirecTV was starting up. I had the cable de-installed and the service man said "Well there are two choices for cable here, OURS or YOURS." I took the DirecTV boxes out of my car at that point and said "I'll take mine."
I wouldn't ever go back to cable. I now have multiple DirecTiVos. The integrated receiver/TiVo is better in that it has two tuners so watch one, record two more at the same time is possible. Unlike the standalone, however, you can't record local off-the-air, or video in. It is generally cheaper than standalones as well, and the subscription may be moot depending on what channel package you order.
TiVo is very hacker friendly (network options and upgrade disk capacity cheap and easy, and web access, etc.). DirecTv enables all the DirecTiVos from one master subscription. I originally choose lifetime, they've since made TiVo service free with most of the "packaged" services.
Now as to weather. We get some severe weather in the Puget Sound convergence zone. I get maybe 2-3 minutes of bad (LOS) rain fade a month for the six rainest months. The signal on the spot-beam (local channels) has never disapperaed. I get occasional macro-block errors (looks like bad pixelation on part of the image) another 4-5 minutes a month. I could correct all these problems by going to a 1 meter dish now that the Channel Master "Gain Master" antenna is around. I didn't want to go bigger earlier because previous 1 meter dishes mounted a single LNB assembly (still dual channel, just points at one sat.). The Gain Master supports all the satellites. It should eliminate all the rain fade issues. I should also point out we are in a non-optimal position as a ridge with trees and houses blocks a portion of the sky where the sat. is. Cable is just not truthful. I have less outages now than anytime I've ever had cable and I am in a very poor site as far as the satellites are concerned.
The last point is that regardless of cable or sat. you will lose signal twice a year for a few minutes a day for 1-3 days as the sun is directly behind the sat you are pointed at. For cable this is spread over a wider range as they point at multiple sats. DirecTv hosts the majority of their programming on a single "slot" at 101.5 degrees. However HDTV (and some other local and foriegn language programming) has program content at 110 degrees and NASA Select (and some foriegn language content) sits at 119 degrees. So to get NASA you'll need multiple LNB assemblies, but it is still one dish (although if you wanted the maximum signal strength with reasonable install and cost, you could point a 1 meter dish at each sat. If you are in a real fring area, like Alaska, there are 2 meter, 3 meter and larger dishes, or you can fixed mounth a C band bigger dish and mount the LNB to it. Hope this helps.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Much of this has already been covered, and it looks like the clear answer from Slashdot is already "DirecTV beats Comcast Cable in every way", but since I have DirecTV ( have had it for years ) and my neighbor has Comcast digital cable, I think I can answer that DirecTV clearly wins on many points when compared to Comcast digital :
1) Downtime much less than cable. Seriously. Although rain fade does happen, it's never for more than a couple of minutes even in the *most* severe of storms. It's a matter of *extreme* downpours causing some signal loss, not a matter of it going out constantly. Not a problem, really. A well-pointed dish and clear horizon help, too, but my dish is pointed right at a tree, gets 80% signal at best, and it's still almost never a problem. The cable companies lie, of course. When Comcast's cable goes out ( it definitely does happen ) it's for hours and hours at a time, not minutes.
2) DirecTV has a _great_ program guide and lots of cool features built into even their most basic set-top boxes, *especially* when compared to Comcast.
Comcast's program guide is hard to read, and worst of all, has HUGE advertisements that take up half the screen or more!! It's barely usable. It's just a channel with a scrolling loop. DirecTV's is actually an interactive program guide which is layered on top of whatever channel you're watching, it has _days_ of programming. See if you can find someone who has it and try it out- you won't need a TV guide ever again.
3) DirecTivo is the best! Cable Tivos can't even tune two channels at once, and don't integrate with the cable set-top at all. DirecTV also offers their Tivos cheaply - you can get a complete multi-room system *with* installation and upgrade one room to Tivo for $99 bucks. Compare to $200+ for other Tivos. Also, probably since the program guide comes from DirecTV, the Tivo subscription is only $4.99, not the normal $12.99.
4) More channels, more flexible channel packages, actually cheaper than cable in every configuration as well. If you're a sports fan ( I'm not ), DirecTV is where it's at, you may never leave the house again.
5) Local channels are better quality. Maybe a small point, but someone who has cable recently pointed this out to me. I think it's because DirecTV charges $4.99 to give you locals and can sell them out-of-market ( I live in CA but could in theory get NY channels if I wanted to pay for them ). Cable _has_ to carry the locals by law and can't charge for them, so put the minimum of effort into doing so- they stick up an antenna wherever is convenient and give you that signal, which may well be worse than what you'd get on your own.
Seriously, if you find someone who has DirecTV, especialy with Tivo, spend 15 minutes or so having them demo it for you, compare it to someone else who has Comcast digital cable, and you'll understand why the vast majority of posts here are singing the praises of DirecTV. I hate them for their evil smartcard lawsuit ways, but they're easily the best pay TV service around, and I'd rather be their customer and send them letters telling them how bad a mistake their legal guys are making on that front than pay a cable company who's even worse to their customers. It's much like picking a political candidate to vote for... and DirecTV is clearly the lesser of the evils.
Almost forgot- this varies greatly by area of course, but Comcast only recently went digital in my area. On all fronts tech, HDTV rollout, everything, DirecTV has been way ahead of them. I'm sure there are more ways DirecTV is better than Comcast, and there _might_ be a better cable service than DirecTV, but I haven't heard of it.
I've used both Comcast and Dish Network, in fact, I'm using both right now. Dish or DirectTVs digital channels are far clearer with almost no artifats in the picture. For instance, TechTV. On Comcast TechTV has artifacting out the wazoo. The bug on the screen looks like a puzzle that was put together wrong. On Dish, the picture is nearly clear. You should have few problems with the weather. You'll probabl-i lose your signal far fewer times than the cables goes out. If your Dish is mounted well, it won't be a problem. I remember the satellite installer telling me that there only needs to be 70% signal to have a picture. The picture shouldn't change at any signal level. So, either you have a clear picture or nothing. Our satellite has not gone out in several months mostly even with all the snow storms. It is actually not the clouds overhead that cause the signal loss the most. It's storms approaching or going through the signal path from a distance that make signal go out easier. Personally I would buy a standalone DVR like a TiVo. You can upgrade and replace the hard drive in it if you choose to. Well, if you're into hacking that is. I don't know how often the satellite or cable company will give you upgraded ones if you feel the need to upgrade. Also, if you plan on getting a HDTV sometime in the future. Doing research I found that cable companies also compress that signal a little. Dish does not do that. We have HDTV and we did notice that on cable the picture had some artifacing during HD programming. Barely noticable, but it was there. Programming, the only thing I will miss once the cable goes is the International Channel, the talk shows are hillarious. You get far more interesting channels on a satellite that cable just doesn't have. Comcast here has TechTV, and so does Dish and DirecTV. But Comcast has it in their highest digital tier. That costs $65/month! TechTV on Dish Network comes in the America's 120 pack. That's $35/month. The 180 pack is $45/month. and their give you a 1, 2 or 3 room setup for free. The programming pakages from Dish and DirecTV are virtually identical. Check out their sites and your cable company's site and compare them. I my opinion Satellite ends up costing about as much as cable in the long run. With programming charges for your receivers and whatnot.
I also remember there being radio transparent plastic domes available to protect ground mounted dishes from the wind. So were even made to look like a big rock to conceal the dish for the landscaping gurus.
Yeah it really sucks. Just yesterday, last seconds of the game, kicker is going for the field goal and BLAM! some guy impaled himself on our antennae. Peeled him off but it was no good, the game was over.
After reading the replies here, I see a lot of people who use satellite, so I hope I don't get flamed for being a cable user. But I'll just share a bit about cable TV from what I know.
My cable provider is Time Warner. And I must say that they are pretty good. We only have a basic cable TV package, but that's good enough for me. Because of the increasing competition from satellite companies, they keep adding more channels. Most I don't even watch, really. I stick to around 5 hours a week or so of TV, so it's not a big deal. I don't have digital cable, so reception is good, but not perfect. I've seen both digital cable and satellite, and they are both better than regular cable. But heck, it keeps me from watching too much.
One thing that cable TV is nice for is convenience. You just plug in one cable and you're ready to go. No cable/satellite boxes necessary. You want to add another TV, you just plug it in and hook up the cable and you're good to go. So that's always nice. And I have to say that Time Warner has been top notch for support. One call and they are out there fixing the problem. They even ran a new cable from the phone pole to our house to fix some bad reception we were having once!
We also have our Internet access through Road Runner, which is owned by, of course, Time Warner. So even if we wanted to switch to satellite, we would STILL have a Time Warner bill for our cable modem. Not only that, it'd go up because we'd be doing without Time Warner to provide TV. So you really can't beat them for convenience in that respect either. And Road Runner's been nice to us. I can host my own web/email server off of it, and they have never complained. RR's support is pretty good as well, as long as you get past level 1 support. They are in Texas, and it doesn't help that I'm in New York. Level 2 support, which is local to our area is actually helpful. I see no reason to switch from them, considering we have no other Internet options aside from dial-up access.
So I guess it boils down to the fact that cable TV isn't perfect, but it sure is convenient to say the least. And I don't know how much work setting up and maintaining a satellite dish involves, but Time Warner takes care of pretty much everything as far as the cable end of the setup is concerned. I've been pleased every time I've contacted them so far. (3 times total in being a customer for the past 6 years or so) If you need the perfect picture clarity, go for satellite. If not, go with cable. It's very easy to use and "good enough" in most cases.
-Through the server, over the router, off the firewall... Nothing but 'Net!
Buy a bigger dish. Here in Alaska, 18" dishes wont even work. Minimal size is 30". Personally, we ended up with a 1.2 meter dish which is more immune to weather. (Our Dish network transponders vary from 60-80 in strength, with 125 on the spotbeam.) My friend went for the gold and bought a 2 meter dish. ChannelMaster makes all of these dishes for consumers to buy.
Also, not sure how long your cable to your dish is? Buy some Belden 1694A cable, low loss serial digital interconnect RG6, and have it terminated with Canare F connectors on both ends. Doesnt make much difference for signals under 1 ghz, but can make a huge difference for higher signals depending on your existing cabling. I've ran my Dish on 350 feet of this cable with only a few points of signal loss on the highest frequencies coming from the LNB. (Check www.bluejeancable.com for a pre-made source of these cables. Or www.haveinc.com if you want to build it all yourself.)
I have DirecTV with TiVo (commonly called DirecTiVo), the dual-tuner box.
I'm not a big fan of Rupert Murdoch, and he's either in the process of purchasing, or has already completed his purchase of, DirecTV. That said:
1. I've had years of mostly trouble-free service. No (zero) outages due to rain or wind. Since I'm in southern california, I can speak to windy days and days-long rain deluges, but I can't speak to snow. YMMV.
2. The problems I have experienced have been with the TiVo unit, but those problems have been so rare and so easily fixed (usually without calling tech support; I just go to AVSforums and check out their DirecTiVo forum for advice) that I can't say it's been anything but a delight.
3. Once upon a time, I worked for a cable company. Having been on the "other side", I can honestly tell you that I avoid cable like the plague unless there's a compelling reason not to. There's always the possibility that the same kind of shenannigans go on at the satellite providers, but it's kind of like KNOWING someone spits in your food at a specific restaurant, vs. merely suspecting it at another -- you're gonna stop going to the first restaurant, even though you might or might not keep going to the second.
Ther biggest problem you'll face with weather-related signal loss has to do with a dish that isn't solidly mounted. It takes a whole lot of snow, rain, or clouds to obscure the signal. The more common cause of signal loss is a dish that gets blown off its pointing angle, or one that wobbles in the wind. You can be as creative as you want with mounting (mine is tethered to the side of my brick chimney with two nylon ratcheting tie-down straps.) Just give it a firm shake with your hand (stfu) and make sure it's not going to wobble in a strong wind.
As far as satellite vs. cable, satellite all the way. It's better service, better technology, and you'll be dealing with a far less scummy company.
I cancelled my ExpressVu almost a year ago because they kept raising the minimum package price and had just added a 2.99 "system access fee" (read stealth inflation) to my bill and that was it. One option was to go antenna, I have one but I only get 5 stations (CBC, GlobalTV[like fox], CTV[like CBS], TVO[like PBS], and CKNX[WB/UPN content, a local independent]. Most of what I like is on FOX and Global didn't come in very good for me, so I had to look at something else, so....
I had been experimenting with Free-To-Air satellite TV for a while before that and decided to go ahead and take the plunge. See www.lyngsat.com for more information but here is the gist:
FREE SATELLITE TV!
Get a DVB PCI card for your computer and make it into a tivo AND don't pay for TV. On Ku band with a motorized 90cm dish you can get: ABC (1 affiliate), NBC (1 affiliate+net feeds), FOX (3 affiliates), WB (2 affiliates), UPN (4 affiliates), PAX (5+ affiliates but PAX sux), a few news channels (Fox News, MSNBC, Bloomberg and a few others), NASA TV, and tonnes of news/network feeds, foreign channels, religious channels, etc. But suffice it to say you can still watch the Simpsons and other staple geek television. Upfront cost about $350 for a 90cm dish, receiver, and motor. Substitute receiver for a similarly priced PCI DVB card (make sure Diseqc 1.2 support to move the dish, and that it will work with whatever PVR type linux software you're going to use!)
If you can put in a big C band dish you can usually get them for free and that gives you even more "real" TV including but not limited to, most networks in the Alaska time zone, TechTV, Independent Film Channel, Fox Movie Classics, CNBC, another NBC affiliate, CBC Newsworld International, CTV network feeds (Canadian tv network), ASN (another Canadian TV station that carries a lot of WB/UPN type content), TVU (a Christian MTV of sorts if you like that kind of music) and lots more foreign channels, feeds, shopping channels, and religious channels. Upfront cost: a big C band dish, actuator (motor arm thingy), dual-band LNBF -- all that you can usually get for $0-$150 from someone who thinks there isn't anything to watch on it anymore [they probably have an old analog/videocipher system] and they've switch to directv or whatever, $300 for a Satcruiser 2040ACE (does Analog [Techtv, ABC East/West, wildfeeds, etc) to move the dish and decode the DVB signals, a couple splitters and a 2 port diseqc switch to go between C and Ku band digital and away you go.
YMMV, but to me I get more than enough TV, all my favourite shows I used to watch, and no monthly bill. I invested about $500 Canadian into my system about a year ago so I'm probably at the break even point now vs paying for a comparable package on expressvu. If you live in a city or real close to a city an antenna might be fine, especially if you can get good digital OTA TV which is available in some large markets in the US, but I'm at least an hours drive from even the smallest city so satellite was the only way for me if I wanted a decent selection.
BTW, in Europe Free-To-Air is basically standard and almost all channels are available that way, have a look at Lyngsat.
Hope this helps...
You can use a normal standalone tivo with any source. A dedicated satellite tivo (currently) has several advantages over using an SA tivo for satellite, though:
1. No need for any sort of control cable or "IR blaster" or serial connection to make your standalone tivo control your cable or satellite tuner box.
2. Two built-in tuners. Record two shows at the same time, while watching a third that you've already recorded. This is freaking fantastic, and I hope we start seeing 2-tuner SA tivos as well.
3. Pure digital recording. With a DirecTivo, it records the digital stream straight off the satellite. If you use an SA tivo and a satellite tuner box, the stream gets decoded by the satellite box and then re-encoded to mpeg by the tivo. You'll see quality loss.
Anyway, just wanted to lay it all out. An SA tivo works with everything, and is truly in its element with analog cable. A DTivo is fantastic and has several advantages, but is can't be used for anything but DirecTV.
(I live in southern Minnesota, where tornados like to play.)
Our local cable co. called a month ago, and was trying to sell me on cable. They said, "What about when the weather is bad?"
I said, "When the weather is bad enough for my satellite to go out, the last thing on my mind is catching the end of "Iron Chef". I get my ass in the basement. I hardly want to die watching "Friends" reruns on cable."
She didn't really have a response to that. Guess it wasn't in the script.
While the cable commercials aren't wrong when they say you lose satellite in severe weather, they exaggerate.. php for why
I've had both Digital Satellite and "Digital" Cable.
Digital is almost always just a buzzword to confuse the ignorant. Most cable companies didn't increase their resolution when switching to digital.
Summary is that satellite has 480 lines. (480 in the 640x480)Cable has 240? something sad like that.
If you need your TV during a storm to keep you occupied then get cable. Me I turn mine off so it doesn't get surged.
(I'd recommend Dish Network over DirecTV for political reasons go to http://www.eff.org/directvdefense/20030812_eff_pr
Good Luck!
... because they offer more channels for less money and their encoding quality is (usually) better (my experience based on DISH Network; can't speak for DirecTV.) Satellite wins hands down in almost all categories: quality, value, programming choice, reliability, equipment choice and customer service.
... satellite offers more channels (especially DISH) than most cable MSO's for less money. Locals too in most markets, and HDTV which cable co's have been painfully slow to adopt.
;-) and limited aggregate bandwidth.
Quality and value... satellite providers have more total bandwidth (about 2-4x) to work with than the typical hybrid fiber-coax cable plant. Being all digital they don't have to carry legacy analog channels. So, they have less need to compress heavily than the cable guys do and so can offer more channels at lower cost.
Programming
Reliability... as much as the cable ads make of it, it's a total non-issue with satellite. It's amazingly robust. In the three years on DISH I had one (!) outage due to rain fade, and then only for about 30 seconds or so. Compare this to my experience with cable providers (in my case Charter, now Adelphia) who seem to have several outages a year: distribution amps blowing up, segments taken down for maintenance/upgrades, and so forth.
Equipment... the satellite providers seem to adopt new tech more quickly than the cable MSO's. They embrace newer media (like HDTV, PVR's, etc.) more enthusiastically than the cable heavyweights do. This has a lot to do with the business model: generally, they unbundle the box from the service (you own the box) so you have choice. Some perceive this as a drawback; however when you look at the poor quality of most cable boxes vs. their rental cost you can see you get a better shake from DirecTV or DISH.
Customer service... DISH is awesome, can't speak for DirecTV although I understand they've improved too. In my case DISH patiently worked with me to debug a complex HDTV setup using a 5200 IRD, HDTV modulator and a Mistubishi HD set. Another time they broke 'seamless integration' with a firmware upgrade, they fixed it in two days (!) after I reported it to them.
Now, the satellite drawbacks...
First, there's no 'analog only' option so you're always looking at MPEG-2 and thus have slower channel surfing (not to mention your TV's P-I-P is mostly useless.) I understand there are IRD's with two decoders now.
Second, satellite broadband is poor due to the up/down latency (c = 300,000 km/s, it's the law
Third, you do have to mount the antenna. Some quibble about this but it's not a big deal: installation and gear are free if you buy a package; it's a simple DIY project if you prefer to run your own.
Most users need only one dual-LNB antenna. DISH needs a second one aimed at 61.5 or 148 if you want some of the 'non-core' programming, such as their slate of international channels (including Al-Jazeera and World Link TV - gotta get your Karachi Kops somehow) and some of the HDTV feeds. If your locals aren't on the core sats (110 and 119) DISH will install the second antenna free.
Also, before you commit to satellite, you need to verify that you have a clean sight line to the bird(s.) DISH has a tool you can download to get your azimuth and elevation to each bird. For the continental US the core satellites are at 101, 110 and 119 deg. - generally due south for most people. You do need to mount the antenna(s) on something that doesn't move - a nearby tree won't do it. If you're unsure about any of this have an installer do a site survey for you prior to entering into a contract.
If these drawbacks aren't a concern for you... then your next choice is DirecTV or DISH.
Three things should dictate your choice: programming, equipment and service.
Programming... DirectTV has NFL Sunday Ticket, DISH does not. DISH has lots of international programming, DirecTV does not. Other than that their lineup is nearly identical, but... to
I don't know if DirecTV is still like this everywhere, but I can tell you about my own experiences living in Clear Lake, Texas (the home of Johnson Space Center).
My family used to subscribe to whatever increasingly-large umbrella-corporation-of-the-month had most recently bought out our local cable television monopoly. In the eighties, when it was basically a local mom-and-pop provider, it was pretty darned cool. In the early-to-mid nineties, when the string of buyouts really got underway, its quality of service declined while its pricing increased significantly. In the mid-to-late nineties, when DBS began heating up real competition, its quality of service dramatically improved while pricing remained more or less static. And all through those times we received NASA TV, which was great!
Cut to the twenty-first century, and my family switched over to DirecTV DBS. It's been amazingly cool, albeit just as expensive as overpriced cable.
We regularly get nice big wrath-of-god thunderstorms blowing in off the Gulf, and yes, in a *really* bad storm the signal might occasionaly break up for a few minutes at a time, but it's not significantly more frequent than cable television - remember, they're getting their signal from a local satellite downlink, too. I'd rate the reliability as just slightly below cable - it *is* a smaller dish, after all - but not enough to be any sort of a nuisance.
DBS receivers kick digital cable receivers' @sses, hands down, though. The user interface is entirely dependent upon your box, and I've sampled a great many of both sorts of boxes amongst many friends, having lived in five cities in the past four years. Not a single digital cable box has been anything but a heavily-sedated slug by comparison to the DBS boxen. If you enjoy scrolling through hundreds of channels you don't subscribe to in order to find the one that you're looking for, digital cable's all for you, since DBS custom channel lists spoil that sort of fun. DBS receivers are faster, more user-friendly, more programmable, more configurable, more extendable, and not a bloody-closed-platform. You can buy a DBS receiver from any of a half-dozen manufacturers, while digital cable receivers are often vendor-locked-in, and it *really* shows.
DirecTV channel selection is superior to any digital cable system I've since tried as well, and I go for geeky esoteric stuff like NASA TV Worldlink. Bear in mind, though, that that's from the perspective of a global sampling of culture. There's a lot of fringe quirky stuff to be found on DirecTV if you dig for it, but local public-access and community channels are only available through your cable provider, as those aren't even broadcast on open airwaves. That's really the only negative point for DBS - NASA TV used to be a Clear Lake public access station in the eighties!
Local broadcast channels have never been an issue, though. Most major markets now have a decent selection of their own local broadcast stations available through regional DBS programming packages, all the national broadcast networks get DBS feeds from two or three different big cities (which often nets some interesting other-regional programming as a bonus), and a good antenna can pick up most stray channels left out of the mix. I don't know for certain, but I've heard that some of the newer DBS receivers even include built-in tuners so you never have to switch your television and audio source when you want to watch antenna broadcasts. Local broadcast channels just aren't an issue.
Right, the heaving-naked-breasts part. Well, I had great fun browsing DirectTV channel lists upon my first experience in the fall of 2002. I was pleasantly surprised to see that it carried NASA TV of all things, so I dialed straight in only to see two women and a man having what must've been quite a pleasant experience. It didn't look like the usual NASA programming, so I figured something was crossed up in the feed and let it go. Oddly, when I checked back a couple of nigh
Another thing about those pieces of living shit at COMCAST>
They incorporated a pop-up ad delivering mechanism into the "menu" system of the cable box in an automated "upgrade" about 2 years ago.
Now, everytime you simply want to view the menu system, you are bombarded with pop-ups about the new MPAA movie coming to cable or possibly that herbal supplement you've been meaning to get.
They also bundle pre-printed pop-up ads into you monthly bill, for easy access. Open up that $50 mutha and you will be delighted to find ads for Check Printing services. Get your personal checks printed with such endearing figures as J-Lo and Ben Affleck in the movie Gigli (Check Theme 10110 on the order form today!).
Its such pure bullshit... COMCAST, may these micro-aol ass-knats rot in HELL.
SCO: 800-726-8649
Verisign: 800-361-8319, 888-642-9675
Diebold: 800-433-VOTE (8683)
I'm no fan of cable TV, and have been a happy DTV customer for about a year.
But just to be fair, even a "perfect" signal going into your standalone Tivo in Best Quality, will never match the picture quality you'll get from your DTivo. This is primarily because of the inferior MPEG encoding on the SA Tivo, compared to the industrial strength encoding done by DirectTV before it goes over the satellite.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Here in Belo Horizonte (somewhat highland of Southeastern Brasil), in the "monsoon" season (high summer, from xmas to late january) I get many thunderstorms (10 to 20 days/year), and we stay 1-2h each time without sat tv signal (SkyTV). ...
I'm lucky, cause I live really high in the city next to the hills where the local tv antennae are situated, so I have good reception even without an aerial antenna. And more, I am a cable subscriber to have internet, so I have the "minimum package" of tv from the cable co.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
As for technical issues, I've had satellite tv (DSS, Dish, etc) in several locations, and the thing is that it all depends on how securely you install the dish (have done it myself a couple times without difficulty) and how accurately you aim it. As for weather interference, keep in mind that the cable company gets ITS signal off the satellites too, so any weather that is going to mess up your signal is going to mess theirs up too.
I am currently on Adelphia digital cable with their internet service as well. I have experienced outages of a few minutes to half a day at least half a dozen times in the last three months since I got the upgrade to Powerlink.
Objectively speaking, its six of one, half a dozen of the other.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
The quality is excellent on satellite but if you live in a windy area I'd be careful. I spent 7 months in Wellington, NZ and the wind was so bad I'd have signal trouble at least once a week and sometimes daily. Generally in was intermittent pixelation but at times it went out for most of the day. When it gets bad enough you simply loose the signal completely. Wellington is an extreme case but if you live in an area with a lot of windy weather I'd consider cable. Otherwise satellite would be my choice. In a pinch if the dish is ground mounted you might be able rig a windscreen. I've heard dense fog will cause problems but wind was my biggest problem. Best of luck.
HDTV for Satellite will run you at least $500 for the equipment, whereas HDTV on Cable is only about a $5 monthly charge.
Plus, you get the local channels in HDTV.
This year there will be Motorola PVR with single and dual tuners. And VOD is also coming within a few months in my area (already enabled in other areas).
It's amazing how much bandwidth a single insulated and shielded 18 gauge copper conductor can handle IMO, cable is the way t go for now. With 256QAM coming in the future, you'll be able to receive 43 Mbps for each 6 MHz wide channel from about 50-1000 MHz. Even with the current 64QAM implementation, there's lots of bandwidth to go around.
With satellite, the problem really isn't the finicky dish behavior (overly dramatized), but the fact that it's a bottleneck. Currently the DSS providers don't have the bandwidth necessary to broadcast local HD programming. The only way to increase the bandwidth is to launch more satellites. That takes time and money, so if you want local DTV channels, you'll need a plain old UHF/VHF antenna to grab the over-the-air signals.
Your average HD broadcast is between 15 and 20 Mbps. 15 being 720p and 20 being 1080i. Should 1080p come along, that would roughly double the bandwidth requirement of 1080i. The DSS providers are going to have to resort to more aggressive compression sooner than the cable providers...
In my experience watching DirectTV is like watching movies on a 256-color monitor. I often wonder if DirectTV even has 256 colors. Shadows are a mosaic of grey rectangles, dark scenes look like shit, you can clearly see the key frames every second, etc. Football is the WORST. On long shots, once a second the players look like players, the rest of the time they are a jumble of pixels with an aura of jumbled pixels around them. NOT big screen TV material.
For all I know digital cable could be worse. I'm sticking with analog cable (which is often free with a cable modem...)
Disclaimer: Until just recently, I worked for DirecTV (left of my own volition for a more flexible job). That said, here is my honest opinion and/or observations about your questions:
;-)
Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact).
This is bullshit. Many cable companies, including my own (CableOne), make similar statements. Consider the source.
If your dish is properly aligned, the weather has to be quite severe to interrupt your signal. If it is quite severe, you will probably get signal interruptions, freeze-framing, pixelization, etc.
A few anecdotal examples:
My grandmother has a sparse tree (not sure of the species, it has leaves so is not a pine) directly in front of her dish. When I visited during the monsoon season, most of her transponders had a signal strength of 75-85. DirecTV recommends a signal strength of 70 or higher in clear weather to prevent signal loss in trivially bad weather. 80, IMO, is a safer number to shoot for. If you are a true geek, you will probably fine tune it to get it in the high 90's.
- I have never lost picture, even in fairly severe snowstorms. I made sure my dish was well aligned though.
If the dish is poorly aligned usually due to a customer self-installation or due to an installation by Halstedt Communications, an installation company known by DirecTV employees for being almost universally incompetent. Unofficially, of course.
What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception?
Digital cable and DirecTV have a nearly identical picture quality from what I have seen. Many channels in "digital" cable packages are analog, then you pay to add a set of digital channels on top of the analog base package. Analog picture quality varies based on a great number of factors, and IMO goes from "fairly decent" to "almost as good as pure digital." IIRC, DirecTV's picture is 480^2 MPEG-2 video, but I cannot recall for sure. Digital cable is probably the same or similar.
Weather does not effect picture quality at all. Generally, you either have it or you don't. Freeze-framing and pixelization can occur with very bad signal strength, but I consider this "not having it at all"
If all but obviously severe weather effects your satellite signal, call and have your vendor come and fix it. There is no reason that you should have to put up with losing your signal more than during a couple of really bad storms per year, and even then, not for more than half an hour (unless the storm lasts quite a long time).
Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."
All vendors' PVRs except DirecTV's are very basic. Tivo is, IMHO, simply a superior service, giving you much more than just recording. HOWEVER, it does have a monthly fee. Some PVR services (the very basic ones) do not.
A few important notes:
If you get a Tivo for anything other than DirecTV,
the recording will not really be digital. Non-DirecTV Tivos are designed to accept an analog signal (to be compatible with a wide variety of TV services), so that analog signal is converted to digital to actually record to disk, then back to analog again for playback. If you have a digital connection from your RV to Tivo, only the one conversion takes place.
Tivo for non-DirecTV is also much more expensive. $12.00USD per month last time I checked. It is $4.99 for DirecTV customers (whether you use a DirecT
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
On the other hand, if you use a TiVo, and always record on the lowest quality, you're not going to notice too much of a difference with satellite, though bad weather will noticably chop up the signal (wind and wildlife vibrating or reaiming the dish, dense clouds/fog, heavy rain, ice forming on it in cold weather, snow buildup, etc), I remember when times were better and I shared a 4BR/2BA house with a bunch of friends and we could easily afford every channel DirecTV offered, nice clear warm night, open all the doors and windows, and turn on a movie with a signal so clear you would have thought you were on analog cable and lived inside the headend.
Broadband, however...I've had Verizon and Qwest and some time or another for a DSL provider. They both suck so bad that I don't even trust them with my landline anymore, they lost my business to Vonage. Cable is the least of all evils. They'll let you get internet service a-la carte without television if you want (which is how we did it in said big-ass house, plus half of us worked for @Home, so we got 30Mbps/10Mbps for free anyway). The half of us in that house that worked for @Home, both used and loved @Home. I knew, at the time, about as many people who worked for Qwest and one guy who worked for Verizon. All the guys who worked for Qwest really had a hard time even selling their service to their customers, and were @Home customers themselves and loved cable. The guy from Verizon might know where the power button on a computer is if it's got a big, neon sign flashing, pointing at it, and the button itself is illuminated and clearly labelled.
The correct answer should be intuitive by this point. 8:o)
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An important note:
Many problems with installations are from people ordering their stuff from a backwater sleezeball company.
I recommend you get your stuff directly from DirecTV or from a reputable vendor like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.
Calling 1-800-DIRECTV does not necessarily get you to DirecTV itself!
It is a national # setup to route you to a local dealer.
If you want to actually get your stuff from direcTV, call the general customer service phone # at 800-355-5000 and do whatever you need to do to talk to someone from the phone menu. It doesn't matter who. Then, ask for the sales department. They will ask if you have a credit card (say YES) and if you have ever had DirecTV before (say NO).
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
A friend of mine, had a dish for 6 months, we hang out at his house all the time to drink, watch movies, sports, etc.
:P
Durring this time, there was a huge blizard that rolled through. The picture quailty was really bad, when there was signal at all. We had to keep going outside to clean the dish off. If anything gets inside it, it will start crapping out.
Durring normal rain, you will notice little "bleeps" here and there on the picture. Typically, it only happens 2 times durring a 1 hour show and its very minor. However, durring very heavy down pours, the signal disappears. At times, there is signal but its unbareable to even look at.
The only times wind will affect your signal, is if your dish isn't properly secured. Any movment on the dish will create poor signal. Of course things like leaves, branchs, acorns, etc will create problems.
Now, he moved over to digital cable. It rocks, very little downtime at all. Plus, ondemand is great. Just make sure you get the best package they have. Starz and Cenimax are the best ondemand packages out there. The movie selection is generally much better. Depending on your cable provider, they are usually free access as long as you have the big package. I rent over 100 movies a month with it for free. Beats renting from the video store. But, the video store is going to have a better selection
I would recommend what others have suggested. Get cable first, try it for a few months, then switch to the dish. The dish companys are giving out good deals to people who switch from cable. Try it for a few months, if you don't like it vs cable, many cable companys are giving out the same deals to switch back.
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Cable is reliable, assuming your local provider is above the sham level. If you're a "bring it on and I don't want to deal with it" kind of guy, you'll prefer cable.
Satellite has advantages, mostly in the way of programming choices over cable. With cable you're stuck with whatever deal your local provider offers; sat offers choice and in my humble opinion should be seen as programming options rather than service options.
Number one, as always, is cost. Where I'm from, cable and sat are pretty much identical; so it's a push. If that's not the case with your providers, it's gotta be a consideration.
Sat can be unreliable if the dish isn't installed properly.
The sat companies tend to underplay the installation issues. "Buy the dish, throw it up damn near anywhere, you're good to go" is the mantra. They're lying.
You want a solid dish mount. The sat companies tend to suggest that you can just use the cheezy mount that comes in the box and go. In my experience, a handy person can do better and it pays off. My sat is stabilized with "aircraft cable" and turnbuckles, and doesn't move a fraction of an inch in 60 mph winds. It's also mounted on a pole that puts it above power lines and the neighbors. The mount/dish they give you will wallow like jello in a decent wind and you will notice it.
Sat is a kind of digital link, in that as long as you get 55% or so signal, it's fine. Drop below that even a bit and it starts to crap out, and in a digital sort of way it's all good or it's all crap. I get 85% plus and in a 60 mph gale or solid downpour I still get over 60%.
Even if they swear the little dish they give you is fine, you can always do better with a bigger dish. The improvement in signal strength really matters if trouble-free is important to you. Spring for a larger dish and you will never regret it; it does make a big difference.
People who lose reception due to snow, rain and obstructions are people who bought the party line and use the dish that comes with the cheapest bundle, and mounted it the way the instructions said to. I live in a heavy snow zone and it's less of a problem than rain or wind. You can buy a cover that is signal-transparent but keeps snow and rain off the dish. They work fine.
Don't believe their lies (and by "their" I mean the dish networks, not the users, who, after all, just trusted the sat company to tell it like it is).
If that's too much trouble or not a viable option due to your location or whatever, then go with cable. Personally I despise the cable company, but I'm not too proud to suck it up when they're the best option. If I lived in an apartment I'd go cable without a second thought.