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Nextel Jumps into Wide-Area Wireless Broadband
Atryn writes "Nextel Communications appears to be entering the world of wireless wide-area broadband technology. A new site showed up today describing their market level trial of Flash OFDM technology. Using a PCMCIA Type II modem card in your laptop or a tethered modem, you can have speeds of 1.5 Mbps (bursting to 3 Mbps) downstream and 375 Kbps (bursting to 750 Kbps) upstream as described here. They also appear to be seeking seeking trial participants, who, when selected, will get the technology free of charge! Of course, you need to be in North Carolina."
How often do I see the salespeople and Exec crying because they're laptops hard drive fell apart after being dropped because the careless twits were swinging their shiny new $2k+ around now that they were "freed from wires"
Wan wireless would be cool if the people that actually had an application for it either got approval or they could justify wireless's cost, but it usually ends up in the hands of marketdroids or MBA's.
Basically i'm asking, what will the price on this be?
Also important is the low latency of the service. I've tried one of the high-latency ones (satellite based), and it's really not worth it - good for downloading large files, and for web-browsing, but useless for interactive use.
No-one ever seems to mention the latency though, just the bandwidth...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
I may be off base here but I think these guys are not that bright and mabey should read /. more often. WiMax products are a year off and that technology is going displace all of these celluar data/Internet systems much like WiFi wiped out all of the wireless LAN systems. Blowing the $$$ on this type of system now is just a waste.
Should we tell em or sit back and watch the flameout (packing hot dogs and marshmellows read:sell short)
Apparently you can use a special pcmcia card Or flash memory. I wonder if my 8Mb CF will work, or if I'll have to take my 64Mb out of my camera.
This is where I keep my clever quotes "" Yup I only got a pair, so I better not waste em!
It seems now that if city-wide wireless broadband can be achieved, it would mean much of a doom to 3G technologies, such as UMTS and CDMA-2000.
Sure, 3G is beginning to be implemented in some countries; Japan, HK, UK, and Australia, etc; but with these wireless broadband services becomes easily available and cheap, consumers would naturally choose the latter.
It would mean doom to my job as well, as I am acting support to some equipment used by a 3G operator in HK; 3G is unbelievably complex and expensive to implement just for two objectives: faster packet data, and enough bandwidth for a video call (Circuit-switched data). Now, the only obstacle I see in this wireless broadband technology to totally killing 3G is circuit-switched reliability.
3G has a much wider circuit-switched domain compared to GSM, and this is important for applications that require low latency and delay: video calls.
In any system, latency can be reduced by introducing QoS into the system by prioritizing packets according to their prescribed quality level. Another sure way of reducing latency is to dump enough bandwidth into it.
When bandwidth becomes widely available just like what's available in land transmissions (perhaps reach ATM-class quality and speed?), 3G technology will be down the drain.
If current trends continue, this is happening fast!
I wonder if they'll try to squeeze money out of us by charging us for "romaing?" Also, I'm sure that privacy advocates will be concerned about the ability of Nextel or any other provider to track their customers and that information will inevitably be shared with the FBI, et al.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
I know a guy working through his MBA, sitting in class hooked up to the net wireless through through Verizon Wireless. He's getting a minumum of 144kbps both ways most of the time. Considering that most of the US and world is connected vi dial up, that a bit improvement. He says it works well in most areas, but it has trouble if you're moving, such as while on the train. He said he does get the burst speeds in many situations, but the average speed is quite acceptable (and he's used to a oc-3). Cingular has this too, as well as, Sprint and At&t wireless. The nextel specs cliam to be high, as the other web sites I cites also make their claims, and they all charge premium prices for this service. Given Nextel's pricing, this will also be at a premium rate.
I just don't understand how the last big name to get in the game is considered news. Was their hyped numbers are bigger than the other hyped numbers? Or was it just general ignorance about the market.
Democrats and Republicans only disagree about how to enslave you
and I will live in North Carolina until everywhere becomes a hotspot and I can live the rest of my days attached to the web.
Trix are for kids!
That seems about the same stats as the EVDO card I've been using from verizon for months now. Basically it is a 3G CDMA-2000 add on that offers bursts to 2Mbps down. I reliably get 600Kbps down and 150 Kbps up. Then when your not in the DC or San Diego footprint you get 144 Kbps bursts up and down.
I thought 3G was dead (who needs any of these things in a phone, really), but EVDO (EVolution Data Only) convinced me this is what it is really for. When I'm stopped in traffic I can access the net. When I'm waiting for the girls to finnish shopping, I can access the net. And on, you get the idea. Hell, I'm even doing some video conferences over this card.
so they can bite my shiny lunux-loving cable-modem using ass!
if I wrap Reynolds foil (tm) around my rabbit ears and point them in the general direction of RDU?
Yea .. but could they make sending SMS messages simpler, first?
If you're interested in facts I'll tell you what they are and I'll give you sources - Chomsky on The Big Idea
1xEV-DO, that Verizon has commercially available in 2 cities and plans to have available nationwide by the end of the year, is definitely not a 2-G or 2.5G technology. It is a CDMA-based technology that provides 2.4Mbps/153Kbps peak upstream and downstream, and 300-500Kbps/40-80Kbps upstream.
Round-trip ping-times are reputed to be about 100-130 ms.
EVDO has been rolled out massively in Korea in 2002 and Japan in 2003. It has more than 1.6million subs in Korea alone.
Nextel is really late to the party. I presume that the reason why this gets big coverage on Slashdot is due to the "WiFi" connection, though this is no more WiFi than a cellphone.
Magnus.
Check out their "Features" list under the Personal category at http://www.nextelbroadband.com/pu_features.html
I find it amusing. They say that is it secure because it's proprietary technology on a licenced radio service so no one can "gain unauthorized network access". I have several radios and scanners that can certainly receive frequencies that this operates on, if not transmit as well. One does not have to "gain unauthorized network access" just to listen.
The closing sentence basically says "enjoy our service but take your own precautions about secure access."
I'm not saying it's insecure (what is secure, truly!?). I do take a dislike to the reassurance of security with the disclaimer that any security should be provided by yourself buried in the rhetoric.
Interesting to read this:
"Nextel may view your physical location and
the times of day when you use the Service.
We may also view the websites and content
that you access through the Service."
I found this funny:
"Nextel and its service providers shall have no
liability under this Agreement for failure to
provide, or for delay in providing the Service,
resulting directly or indirectly from causes
beyond the control of Nextel and its service
providers including, but not limited to, failures
by third parties to provide services or products,
acts of God, or governmental entities, or of the
public enemy, labor strikes or unusually severe
weather."
In fact low latency was a specific design objective of the Flarion solution that Nextel are using for this trial. The latency is much better than conventional 2G and 3G cellular systems so should avoid a lot of the problems with TCP performance which happens on must cellular data. As the original poster said the consequences of latency are often overlooked.
I'm in the trial area and started filling out the form to be a tester, until it got to the system requirements, which were basically Windows XP/2000. I think ME might have been listed. They specifically said they don't support Macintosh or other OSes at this time.
I have to wonder if there's some Windows-only software that they're using for the connection, or if they just don't want the hassle of trying to deal with connection issues from other OSes. Does anyone have similar technology running under Linux?
My company currently operates 52 wireless hotspots. Our key problem is that there are so many different networks. Imagine that the US had one or two hundred different cellular networks, and in most cases your phone couldn't operate on any network but your own, or in the case of many hotspots your "phone" will operate, but you have to sign up with the new network! Nobody is willing to make roaming agreements or any such thing at this point.
It is a well known fear in my industry that if any of the big players gets their act together and makes use of the network they have already built out to provide affordable, dependable, and fast (1.5mb+) wireless access, we won't survive.
I have a SprintPCS wireless connection card (not WiFi, uses the old cell network) and if it was just a little faster, it could have been the WiFi killer.
From glancing at the Nextel site, it says it uses a licensed frequency, meaning it's not 802.11, but on the equipment page, it also mentions that the equipment works with 802.11. Smart move for Nextel. If it's under $75/month, bad for me =(
The Nextel system supports fixed and mobile users. Radio systems that support mobile users have to be designed differently from those that only support fixed users. Mobility adds radio issues such as variable fading and doppler shift as well as the need to handover between different transmitters at the edge of cells. Fixed radio systems can't to any of this.
WiMax is competing with DSL and cable for broadband to stationary objects.
I would love to know the capacity on this technology. There are times that regular cell phones don't work because tower capacity is already maxed out.
Just like any 802.11a,b,g access point has a limit to the number of clients that can reasonably be supported, their spectrum is limited as well.
What good would it do to have broadband that you can't use all the time especially at peak times? Sounds a lot like glorified dial-up to me.
Verizon Wireless already offers wireless broadband. the technology is 1XEVDO (AKA "Broadband Access") and is avail. @$80/mo unlimited. They claim to be ast fast as cablemodems.... Haven't actually tried it yet.
The Digital Couture Collection
I do wonder if Nextel's "unlimited usage" is really intended for heavy traffic. I'd bet more that few users will get nastygrams such as those discussed previously. Between listening to internet radio, downloading files, talking on a VoIP connection, and web surfing Flash sites, some users will be able to suck down full bandwidth for most of the hours of the day.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Why don't you preemptivly solve the problem: work with all the toher access providers. Agree on a common authentification scheme so that no matter where I am my machine always works. At first I might pay large roaming costs, but once you have the identification in place you are set to make roaming cheaper. (Remember you are competing against cell providers, if you are faster and in more places you can charge a little more but not a lot. This is a buisness decision).
But start with the wasy part: a access scheme so that I can use my machine anywhere if I'm willing to pay for it. Get roaming working technically, and then let management deal with the charging issues.
P.S. bring the buisnesses with their wifi onboard too. When a service rep walks into my office and the net just works you are on your way. Buisnesses won't charge perhaps, but they only cover their building and can be pretty sure that only their people (not just employees, customers and services) use it - they can do an audit to see who locally is using their net but not for their buisnesses.
I really wish they had a try-before-you-buy option. I had CDPD with a company for a year -- the service was really slow (claims of 19k max speed was not even close)... signing up to a service that you can't try out, and be stuck with a one year contract seems really dumb.
SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
Can someone tell me why you would need all this extra bandwidth on your laptop? Surfing the internet? For what? porn? reading /.? I don't think business users, the most likely market for a Nextel service, would be interested in downloading movies...or at least paying a lot of money for the ability to download movies on their laptops.
Let me know when I can have it for $29.95/mo with unlimited usage, and I'll stop yawning.
I put in my zip codes (yes - I live & work in Raleigh), and the form said they didn't have coverage in those areas. My guess is that they're starting off in Chapel Hill and will do North Raleigh and the downtown area sometime later.
That's too bad -- my 3G SprintPCS phone works, but I only get 115kbps out of it, so even checking Hotmail is slow.
Chip H.
Since under the trial Nextel provides (in addition to usual web access) "web hosting services for your creation of a personal website and email accounts", I wonder if they will "sanitize" the personal website and email headers to keep from disclosing "any information whatsoever"...
And this section is really making me hesitate to finish signing up:
What do y'all (as we say here in NCCyaNic
1xEV-DO, which is part of the CDMA-2000 family, has already been deployed on a large scale in Korea and Japan. If reports are to be believed, it is a smashing success. Verizon wireless is offering it in 2 cities right now in the US, and will roll it out nationally by the end of this year.
1xEV-DO, is a mature, commercially proven technology that is supported by dozens of Vendors. Several dozen phones/PDAs etc are available from several manufacturers.
I have friends who are using this in San Diego. Depending on where they are, they get speeds of 200Kbps-600Kbps downstream, and 40-100Kbps upstream. Round-trip ping times are 100-140ms.
This is on a real, commercial network with presumeably thousands of users.
I have not seen any corresponding "real-life" numbers on OFDM anywhere. Not to say that it is worse than 1xEV-DO, but Nextel definitely gets no credit for this, they are late to the party.
I would not worry about your job just yet:)
Magnus.
I, for one, welcome our new Nextel Wireless Broadband overlords...
it's been half an hour and my phone hasn't rung yet and i don't have an email saying "Welcome to the secret nextel wireless society!" WHAT GIVES? I NEED THE BROADBAND!!! I MU5T HAVE IT!! ...
:) hahahaha! Wait, I already do that with my Nextel Online mobile AIM service....er.... /me whistles quietly....
Seriously, tho, this is excellent news! Nextel has often done some nifty things, and for a business-class service, it's very nice. Sure the phones aren't sexy, but that's business-class. It's not for your girlfriend and her bubble-gum crew. I drop my phone several times a day on concrete (the stupid belt holder is worn out, it's 2 years old I think, and gets heavy usage), and the phone has some scratches but no failures in functionality. It's been hurled against the wall in my house, thrown across the room, and tossed on the furniture daily, and it keeps on ticking.
Anyway, I look forward to the new data package. It will be awesome to have broadband access whilst having online access to GPS and street map info. Weeee....
And now I can AIM while driving
doo bee doo bee doooo...
I have a Nextel phone for work and I live in one of the largest cities in the US. Around 20% of my phone calls get dropped due to a bad signal. And this isn't just in one particular area, it's all over. It's embarrassing having to tell customers "I'm sorry, my cell disconnected" several times, let alone ONCE in a conversation. Often times, they ask who my carrier is, then vow to stay away. Given Nextel's crappy reputation in the cell phone industry, I don't see how they can be considered a major player let alone a player at all for wireless broadband.
Is Nextel using their SMR spectrum that interferes with public safety radio to run this trial?
I shouldn't be too hard on them; they do follow that stetement by suggesting the use of SSL and VPN.
You need some kind of hardware to access the network, and hardware needs drivers.
The terms are completely reasonable considering this is a market-trial and they are providing devices and services to you at no charge. I wouldn't expect this to be the terms of their final EULA once commercially available.
Come play Moral Decay!
True, most of it makes sense in terms of a market trial. However, the physical inspection aspect struck me as overly intrusive: "Nextel may view your physical location and the times of day when you use the Service."
Still, I went ahead with the signup to see how it plays out.
CyaNic
That won't help for people that spend time in areas that aren't in hotspots but are in NexTel/VZ/whoever's cell footprint. For example my house isn't anywhere close to a Starbucks, McD's, or anywhere else with a hotspot, but it is in VZ and NexTel's cell footprint. So are lots of places my wife shops at.
Hotspots are just spots, cell carriers can cover huge areas. I expect that is worth money to a lot of people.
Ture, but there are places where there is no NexTel (pick your cell carrier) where someone could easially install a hotspot. Boden North Dakota still only has analog cell phone coverage. (As of 2 years ago when I last visitied some relatives there) They won't get it soon. The Ford dealer, the cafe, and the bar could each set up a hot spot though, and by tieing into this network my laptop would just work next time I'm in town.
The town isn't, big enough to justify adding a tower nearby, until someone is close enough to 100% coverage that they want to advertise having gone all the way. Unlikely, there are still parts of ND with no cell coverage at all.
For that matter, if setup right, I could open my access point up at home, confident that someone else is taking care of all the buisness details. ie: I save $.50/month on my bill when someone uses my access point. Not much, but all my neighbors ahve done this, so it just happens my backyard hits a neighbor's AP not mine, but everything works. The third part takes care of making sure spammers using my AP are delt with.
Don't limit yourself to Starbucks, there are plenty of other places with APs. Take care of the admin details and many would open them up. I end up paying an extra $4.50/month and am assured my laptop works. (normally $5, but I've opened my acccess point). For large buisnesses you can make a compelling case if you get the bulk pricing correct.