Slashdot Mirror
AMD Receives $683M for Dresden Plant
Cocooner writes "Infoworld has an article explaining how AMD received $683 million in grants from Germany and the state of Saxony for its next-generation microprocessor wafer facility. The new plant will be located in Dresden, adjacent to Fab 30 and will be called Fab 36. It will be the first AMD 300mm manufacturing facility."
"The new Dresden facility ... will employ 1,000 local workers when it is completed"
Why would the government give a $683M break to AMD to get 1000 jobs? That's two thirds of a million bucks per job. It's amazing that a $2B facility can be staffed by only 1000 people.
-B
No, it isn't a typo. They are talking about the size of the silicon wafer, not the processor itself. If you had RTFA, you would have known that the whole point of this is that is more cost effective to use bigger silicon wafers since more processors can then be made out of a single wafer.
I know, it's a typo...
Actually, it isn't. 300mm is the diamaeter of a complete wafer, from which multiple die are cut.
garethw
AMD, based in Sunnyvale, California, has no plans to convert its existing Dresden fab to 300 millimeters because it wouldn't be a cost-effective way to introduce that technology, Prairie said.
Probably also because it would for a longer time block the main production facility for Athlon and Optoron chips.
If you have many fabs doing the same kind of chip process like Intel it is much easier to temporary stop one of them.
Just look at how many people work at the International Space Station.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
How much new revenues will this new plant bring into Dresden? 600 million plus seems an awful lot of money to get just 1000 additional jobs.
Unless the city going to get substantial revenues from taxes, or increased business opportunities for vendors, it seems like a huge waste of money.
more about me
Dream on, corporations of their size hardly have to pay taxes in Germany. Especially in the former GDR.
And because of their size these are called 'Pizza Wafers'.
The die size of an Athlon XP is about 129mm^2, so at 3/4 surface usage about 410 Athlons would fit on a single wafer. Must be really cheap to produce those things...
-- www.linux-laser.org - Open Source Laser Show Software for Linux
This is goverment intervention of the free markets.
This is a threat to Globalism!
The period between 1950 and 1973 was by far the most successful of the century. This was an era characterised by capital controls, fixed exchange rates, strong trade unions, a large public sector and a general acceptance of government's role in demand management. The average annual growth in "per capita real GDP" throughout the world was 2.9% - precisely twice as high as the average rate in the two decades since then.
"...AMD received $683 million in grants from Germany and the state of Saxony for its next-generation microprocessor wafer facility."
:)
it's not like AMD is gonna change the money into
euro coins and stack them to make a nice looking
factory made from coins, no sir.
the question really is:
who owned the land before AMD bought it (tax?).
who is building the factory(tax?).
who is supplying power(tax?).
who is building the generators that produce
the needed electricity(tax?).
who gets to have a peek at the technology (know-how) once complet(no tax!)
who gets know-how for building a chip
producing factory? (def. more to come!)
etc.
this is a micro investment and the reward is def.
going to pay off as long as people have to use
computers (e.g. no telepathy available).
And to think of how socialists in the U.S. piss and moan when the federal government awards contracts to oil firms. Double standard, anyone? Who's to say that there's not something going on behind the scenes between AMD and Schroeder(sp)?
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
it has been tried. it's called communism. it failed. miserably.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
The German VP of AMD was assaulted by President Schroeder who, according tohis own explanation, was "trying to kiss his boots".
Because this way creates 1000 skilled jobs directly in the area, which increases tax income and reduces unemployment payments. The local economy is helped by the money from the jobs, other companies (builders, suppliers etc) in the area benefit. All round the area's economy improves. This is about long-term growth, not the short term benefits.
It is the job of the government, after all, to improve the lot of its people.
If I remember correctly, the Intel 300mm fabs are just beginning to produce commercial chips (I don't remember which process they run). So, I don't think we've seen the effect of their 300mm fabs yet.
IF you want money grubbing execs, try Halliburton scheming with their best bud DICK Cheney to invade a country so they can rebuild it.
1. Look around for new target in War on Terrorism
2. DICK Cheney suggests Iraq. Bush goes "duh..OK"
3. Invade Iraq. Destroy everything. Make sure the oil ministry is the only safe building in Bagdad. Dont guard anything else, no matter how priceless.
4.?
5. Halliburton execs openly sneer, point, and laff at AMD and their pitiful attempts to make money. AMD cannot invade anyone! AMD has no power!
So will 36 trendy gay men decorate the factory and have the workers wear something stylish?
The parent just pulled "facts" out of his ass.
Opteron X -> isnt planed
5Ghz Fsb -> Opteron has no fsb
500mm -> even intel says that the next 5 years they wont TRY creating bigger than 300mm wafers,
65nm -> 2008 65nm will be old stuff...
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Of course, they aren't really giving money away to AMD. It is rather in the form of tax rebates and the like - it is not losing any money, just not bringing in as much as if AMD had paid full rates on everything (and the reality is that likely AMD would have gone elsewhere and not paid a dime).
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
It is nice to see AMD expanding its company. I have been using AMD chips for several years now, and couldn't be happier. When a company spends the time and money to make developments in arcitecture, they should get something nice in return. Unfortunatly I don't feel intel has been making the advances. The Intel name has been carrying them for a while now, and its time AMD got their recognition.
I've been using the Athlon64 chips and couldn't be happier. Hopefully the new plant will help them nibble away another part of Intel's market share.
www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/prescott-05.html
All Rights Reserved. All Wrongs Avenged.
You may "STRONGLY disagree" - but it is the will of the local population that sets the goals for any government.
If, the voters does set the goal of it's govenment to be improvement of the lot of the people, then so be it. Who are you to disagree - unless you live there and have a right to vote, in which case you can make your views heard just fine.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
I live in the North of England, and at least the AMD plant is still around and AMD is a German company, unlike the white elephant of Siemens.
No, it's a very poor point, and while I may not agree with modding down of it, it certainly isn't in any way insightful. To use a cliche : "Give a man a fish and you've fed him for a day. *Teach* him how to fish and you've fed him for life. Sure $600k/piece would be enough for "the same people who'd work there anyway" to live off of for a few years, but the money will do far more good creating jobs and stimulating the economy.
Let me reiterate a point here: despite what Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh would have you think, socialism is not about getting something for nothing. The basic idea is to ensure that the whole of society is better off than if everyone were concerned only for themselves - sometimes that requires a lot of effort. As a bit of side commentary here, some of the more liberal European states are about as close to a workable, real world approach to socialism as is really possible.
As far as a possible double standard goes, I think the case is pretty weak. The no-bid contracts you hear "socialists" (don't you mean commie-pinko scum? I don't think you were inflamitory enough there) complain about are because Bush, and particularly VP Cheney have VERY close ties to the companies that were awarded those contracts. And by close, we're talking about Cheney having been the head of one of these companies just prior to entering office. Show me where PM Schroeder and his cronies have a direct interest in AMD other than stimulating the German economy and you might have a point. Until then, you're just flamebait.
when a US company builds a US factory.
In the same way it would not be remarkable when a German company built a German factory, nor when an Indian company built an Indian factory.
It is a bit more remarkable when the US business drones without brains build another facility outside the US, then complain that US consumers arent buying it's products. Everyone is worried about the "jobless recovery", but they fail to point the fingers at themselves for shipping the jobs ( and salaries ) overseas. Mind you, I am not nessesarily of the "protectionist" mindset, but it does seem that some moderation is called for.
emt 377 emt 4
That's right! Thanks to our center-left government, German Telekom (you know, T-Mobile) und Siemens (as in Fujitsu-Siemens) pay less in taxes than the janitors working there. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Hurra to the forces of a free marked economy!
Free Manning, jail Obama.
even happier it was not near me..Horrible places that produce huge amounts of heinous sand some really AWFUL smells.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Why would the government give a $683M break to AMD to get 1000 jobs?
The EU recently decided that it was illegal for local governments to subsidise private companies to do business in their region. Could be that AMD haven't quite thought this through...
It is nothing *unusual* to support investments as high as 2.5 billion. 20% is more or less moderate.
:-)
This is usual economic policy in most states around the globe. Anti-Capitalists and Communists will critzise it though because they prefer state run chip production, haha.
It's better than paying 520m to a patent privateer via a stated granted monopoly system.
But I believe a 600 Million German Free Software Fund would be a better investment.
And about the philosophy; even if you don't filthy rich most people have other motivations besides money for working hard. As long as people feel they get an appropriate share of the material growth they are happy.
So I don't think much of the ambition is removed from the individual as there is no signs that the progress of society halts in these countries.
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
Just be glad that they are easy on corporations. The German economy is headed for a slow, eventual decline due to deep seated structural problems. It will wind up much like Japan. Taxes are too high, and that discourages investment. Productivity isn't that high.
Worse, to help offset the massive government debt, there is talk about raising pension contributions and corporate taxes. These will hurt the economy further, making the country less competitive and decreasing investment.
Germany is falling into a trap. The people have been erroneously led to believe that the state can provide everything, which it cannot, at least in the long term. I don't quite think giving Athlon $683 million for a fab that will only be in operation for a few years is a good idea. But be glad that Siemans pays very little in corporate taxes. It keeps the jobs in Germany rather than in the U.K. or the U.S. You sure as hell don't need more people on the dole.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
"It is the job of the government, after all, to improve the lot of its people."
Actually, no. In a -free- republic the job of government is to manage the rule of law, provide for the common defence of the nation, and enforce contracts. Other than that they are supposed to stay out of the road and let people get on with their lives.
Anything else is just the forced redistributuion of wealth,otherwise known as stealing. Which is why East Germany is such a basket case in the first place. People are not inspired to work hard when they know the government is just going to take their money.
I lived in Dresden last year, and things haven't been too wonderful there since reunification. Lots of people have been leaving the city to head west, where there are better jobs. The city of Dresden actually pays people 300,- just to move there from other parts of the country (I think some other cities in the eastern part of the country do this as well). That money will easily cover the first month of rent in most areas of the city -- everybody I met would pay about 150,- per month.
That said, this will certainly help bring a little more 'balance' to the country (the Dresden VW plant also helps). 1000 high-paying jobs means potentially 1000 families...lots of little kids that need schoolteachers, food, clothes. I'm sure that the AMD plant will bring in way more money than this in taxes after a few years anyway...
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
Germany's economy is stagnating, because money is being wasted by corrupt politicians and greedy corporate managers. Note, that Germany is right now richer than it was ever before (along with the rest of the western world) as expressed by the GNP. Right now, some unionists are rallying behind warning strikes, because the metall industry is offering an 1,2 increase (just around the inflation rate, after years of no increases), but only if the employees accept an unpaid increase in the working hours from 35 to 40 hours a week.
Now, what is wrong with this picture?
a) The employers want the unionists to accept less money for more work
b) Requiring individuals to work more time while we have 11% unemployment and more part-time work would significally decrease unemployment
c) The average income has decreased in Germany in the last 10 years, when you account for inflation, while the income of top managers has increased more than tenfold
d) All of the above.
I'm not promoting Socialism, at least not in the way it was done in the GDR, in which I was born by the way. I'm promoting transparent and democratic decision making processes which is currently not happening in the system we have here. I'm also opposed of putting the economy above all, especially above the interests of people that are actually in need.
I have no sympathy for this system at all, because I had to find out that all the things I once cherished after the Wall came down in Berlin, eg free speech, privacy laws, free demonstrations, and all that liberty stuff, aren't worth the paper on which they are printed on. As soon as you're critical to the system and claim your rights, you get bullied around by police and the media doesn't care at all. And I have a feeling that the corporate sector is the driving force behind this, too.
This is getting OT.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
I forgot:
I'm not against private property and a capitalist system, I am however deeply concerned, that huge corporations and few individuals accumulate too much power simply because they are insanely rich. I think this has already happened.
By the way, in ancient Sparta, when a person became to wealthy (and thus too powerful) it was exiled. Think about it for a second.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
As soon as I saw the first thing I thought of was Hyundai/Hynix and some of the other Enterprise Zone projects started in Oregon in the mid-late 1990's.
The Enterprise Zones were areas designated for industrial development that would receive special tax breaks for the first five years or so. It looked really good on paper, and politicians could say they were doing something about the high unemployment, which looked really good to them.
The two biggest projects were a CD-pressing plant owned by Sony in Springfield, OR and a DRAM plant owned by Hyundai in Eugene. Both were touted as creating lots of high paying jobs. Both actually were fairly good corporate citizens while times were good. A politically significant (~1000 total) jobs were created in the $9-10/hour range, though most of the engineering and management positions were filled by people brought in from out-of-state and out-of-country. A third company moved into supply packaging materials to Sony. Everyone was happy.
Then the economy went south. Hyundai canceled a planned expansion of its plant, went bankrupt, closed the plant for over a year while they upgraded the equipment after negoiating a multi-year extension to their tax-break package, then finally re-opened employing fewer people then before. When Sony couldn't get their tax-package enlarged and extended, they just up and left, as did the packaging company.
The final blow was when Komag, maker of hard-drive platters (and recipient of the smallest-subsidies) went bankrupt, sold-out its equipment and walked away from a once billion dollar facility that was one of the last plants making platters in the US (at least I think that is what the newspaper said).
The Enterprise Zone program is still on the books, but with a change in focus. Instead on trying to lure big companies to build big, they are rewarding smaller, more local companies who expand their operations. While companies like Sony received almost as much in tax breaks as they paid out in wages, the smaller firms generally receive tax breaks equal to 1-2 years wages for the additional jobs they create. The additional profits remain in the local economy and these local companies are less likely to up and walk away when the mood suits them. It doesn't make as good a press release, but is much more effective.
All in all, I hope Germany has better luck with AMD than Oregon did with its multi-nationals, but they should look at better ways to spend future tax-grant money.
Clearly, my understanding of what constitutes flamebait is much different from whoever happened to moderate this one! For my benefit, and the benefit of /.'s future posters everywhere, somebody please explain to me why my comments were considered "flamebait -1". I thought, if anything, it'd be regarded as insightful.
It's a simple fact that Germans are, by way of their taxes, subsidizing the cost of these chips -- Germany's government is giving huge amounts of money to AMD to establish their plant and that portion of the construction costs won't be charged to the non-German consumer.
What about that is flamebait? Or is anything even slightly anti-AMD (or anti-communism, for that matter) considered to be one of those "holy" topics that one is not allowed to discuss here?
Unless someone can explain this one, I'm going to have to assume the latter which simply makes the moderators intellectual cowards.