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Consequences of Turning Down a Promotion?
The Fun Guy asks: "I'm part of a research team, doing interesting work on an important topic. However, I've been getting some signals from various superiors that I might be put in charge of another team; the trouble is, that team is dysfunctional, unproductive, and the focus is not as cool as what I'm working on now. I do have career ambitions to move up the ladder of responsibility and authority, and even recently applied for a job three rungs up, mostly as a way to get noticed by the big wigs. It looks like they noticed, but that project looks like a minefield. I really think I'd rather be second banana on a great project than top banana on a lousy one. How bad would it be for my long-term prospects if I say 'Thanks, but no thanks, I'll wait for a better offer'?"
So you're a research microbioligist dealing with food irradiation?
What kind of pay raise are they offering? Do you they think you can help the team become productive? If you can do it, you would have proven yourself to do well in higer level positions. If you can't, you may lose the position like the guy you'd be replacing and get stuck in lower job or on the street. And of course there's the fun factor. Then there's what they might think of you if you turned it down. They might already have someone lined up to fill in your current job, and so on going down the line. And it may make you appear selfish if you turn it down. They may think you'll make the difference between that project's success or failure. It's all about risks, rewards, and sacrifices, and since you're the one faced with it, you understand them better than any of us.
Turning down the Captain's chair almost, but never really, hurt Riker's career...
Well, on Star Trek: TNG, Riker continuously declined the promotions that the federation tried to offer him, but he ended up an admiral on the 1701E during the last episode, which would kick some serious ass.
I say you do what he did, and maybe you'll get your own Starship... err interesting project.
-Ryan
AUWYHSTOT (Acronyms are Useless When You Have to Spell Them Out Too)
http://Lenny.com
Back in my days of working for Directv Broadband, I had ambitions of working my way up the food chain to management. I worked up from peon to tier 2 support. The next step was to start being a lead, then a supervisor. But at that point managers started being targets, instead of leaders.
As time went by, management started asking questions, and really looking down thier nose at me for discontinuing my advencement.
I can't say I would have gone farther or be happier, but stopping the promotion cycle sure did raise some eyebrows.
Pretty Pictures!
Troubled projects are always in search of fresh meat to run them. Nine times out of ten the poor sap that takes on the responsibility fails, after suffering for a long time, and screwing up his future with the company in the bargain.
Be very careful when you choose a project to run. Remember that you will forever be associated with it for good or bad. Much better to start running a new project, or one that's already in decent shape.
Facts are stubborn things.
At some stage in your career if you have any ambition you will need to accept a job that you don't really want to do in order to move ahead.
Rejecting an offer will often be seen as a sign you're happy where you are. The next offer might not come your way.
Think of it this way - at least you seem to work for a company that's doing some sort of career planning for you.
Besides, do a good job and turn a team around and you'll be very highly considered in future.
It is obvious from your description that your superiors feel the other teams problems come from the head. They also feel that you might be the person to take charge and fix the other team. If you don't feel up to the challenge, be honest about it, but expect it to effect future promotion opportunities. If you feel like taking on the challenge you have the potential to make yourself look very good. I suggest getting some good leadership books.
This signiture copied from somewhere.
Seriously, honesty in this case would be the best way to handle the situation. You should share with your supervisors exactly how you feel! They're sure to understand. They will appreciate your communicativeness. Tell them that you're really flattered for being considered for the promotion, then be frank about your concerns about the other team. Remind then that you really enjoy your present position, and let them know that you'd still be interested in other opportunities for advancement, but just not right now. If they really, REALLY want *you* to do it, then they might end up upping the ante and making you an offer you can't refuse.
Go watch The Best of Both Worlds parts 1 and 2.
...
Commander William T. Riker turns down another promotion, a captaincy on another starship. He turns it down because the Enterprise is the best ship in the fleet, he's doing some great work there, and he is comfortable with where he is. But when Commander Shelby comes gunning for his choice position... he has to think about why he's choosing to stay in the same place for such a long time.
Admiral Hanson: "This is the third time we've pulled out the captain's chair for Riker.
He just won't sit down."
Shelby: All you know how to do is play it safe. I suppose that's why someone like you sits in the shadow of a great man for as long as you have, passing up one command after another. (To the turbolift computer) Proceed to deck 8.
Riker: When it comes to this ship and this crew, you bet I play it safe.
Shelby: If you can't make the big decisions, Commander, I suggest you make way for someone who can.
Picard: "Will, what the hell are you still doing here?"
Picard: "Will, you're ready to work without a net. You're ready to take command. And you know, the Enterprise will go on just fine without you."
Now, Riker stayed as 'second bananna' on the Enterprise, and did some truly great things... but eventually he did have to move on. He knew he couldn't stay on the Enterprise forever, and finally accepted a command of his own. The USS Titan.
Riker decided that he should stay on the Enterprise for all the reasons you've stated you might want to stay where you are. But he was able to take a step back, and realize that at some point... he had to move on. He had spent half his career in the same position, and had to move onto different things. He had to leave, or else stagnate.
Some stuff to think about, I guess.
no thanks
It seems as though you introduced yourself into the career ladder game, which means you asked for this: it's standard procedure, you're being asked to "fix up" a dysfunctional team, and if you take on the role and do the work, then you'll be somewhat fast tracked as a "doer" and "fixer".
If you don't take on the role, you're not going to be given another like it soon, and you may get an opportunity to move up, but it's not going to happen fast. If you _really_ want to be a "doer" and "fixer", then you can't pick and choose: you take what's offered and make it happen - that's the essence of being marked as someone who can be relied upon.
Anyone can sit along for the ride on a project that is already well run and staffed with motivated people. If you really want to show your employers what you are made of, you will takeup the lead position in the lagging, "uncool" project and turn it around. This is an opportunity.
As to the consequences of turing it down think about this: Companies want people who can rescue projects, motivate staff and above all communicate setbacks to superiors effectively. You don't need to be a superstar, but declining the position will show that you are scared of a challenge and like to hedge your bets rather than commit.
Take the job and don't look back: Be direct with the existing project team and make sure that you understand the sources of their frustration and conflicts. Then decide on a direction, communicate it and provide leadership. Tell the truth and tell it early.
Good luck!
Dialectician. Archology.
I think that it's fair to ask these questions of those that are offering you the position. I don't think you'll feel repercussions by stating your basic concerns (e.g. "I love my current position, but would like to complete these 3 milestones before I move on. What situation will that leave the team in? Do you have other qualified candidates in mind?")
That said, if the company believes that you're far better than any other candidate and/or that they would be injured if you didn't take the position, you should feel some obligation to take this position (assuming you are loyal to the company). If you don't, I think you'll rightfully be overlooked for future opportunities. Also, if you can get upper management to relate to your situation and help them find a viable alternative, you may help them appreciate your dedication to your current team.
At the end of the day, I think you have to understand the situation better: are you putting the team (or management) in a bad spot by not taking the position or are they just offering it to you because they think you're restless in your current job (you said you were applying for others)?
Who knows? They may be trying to do you a favor.
If you have the balls and know how to turn this team around, regardless of what it may take (gutting the team, refining the goal), then step up and get the damn job done. If not, then you spoke out of turn, and should resign to being left behind in your current position since you couldn't deliver when called upon. In fact, if you turn this down, you may want to start planning to leave the company since you will be sending a message that you don't understand the game or where it is you want to go.
Management is not fun, it is work, and it is harder work then being a cog in the machine. This is why the big bucks come at the top. Good luck.
I think it's perfectly natural to turn down a promotion, if you like what you are doing at the time.
(IMO) a non-exclusive list of when promotions should be accepted is:
- you are overqualified for your current position and are confident that you can handle more responsibility
- your cost of living has increased through e.g. a child (more applicable for a raise maybe)
In any case, if a promotional offer should arise, it would be wise to properly communicate your reasons for accepting/declining the offer. A company's decisions are all about value. If you can convince them that you are of more value to them in your current position, they may understand on the basis of you clarifying that to them.
Then again, doomsday scenario, the new position may be taken over by an ***hole or the management already consists of ***holes, and you will never get that chance again.
In any equation concerning decisionmaking, people are the non-quantifiable variable...
die with your boots on.
I am of the 'never turn a new opportunity' down school when it comes to advancement. But I've never been in your exact situation so.... Taking on a nasty job nobody would want is a good way to make a lot of ground though.
This is a bit OT but 2 things- don't feel bad about your weight- for your height you are not doing too bad. I'm 3 inches shorter and quite a bit heavier- but getting lighter every day. The second thing- if you ever feel like feed back - or talking over how the diet goes allow comments on your blog here.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
You say you applied for a position three tiers up to get noticed? Congratulations, it worked -- they noticed, and they asked "hey, if this guy believes he could function well THREE rungs up under normal conditions, I bet he could do a bang-up job ONE rung up on this shitpile. Let's move him into that train wreck, and if he can fix it, he's definitely the kind of guy we want to keep moving up."
Based strictly on how you presented your predicament, I'd say your turning down the one-rung-up promotion would essentially say "no way, man, I want the THREE rung up job", not "no way, man, I don't want to be part of a train wreck." This is bad, because it makes you look arrogant and unrealistic.
Heck, even if it says "no way, man, I don't want to be part of a train wreck", who wants to promote someone who won't jump in and fix problems when they find it? You don't move up the ladder unless you're willing to take the bad with the good.
So I'd personally say, again based exclusively on what you posted (so YMMV), turning down this offer will guarantee two things:
1. You'll get to stay in the position you're currently enjoying.
2. You're going to stay there for a long, long time.
Good luck, whichever you decide.
You don't want to jump onto the Titanic. So, you want to start getting information about that group. Why are they dysfunctional and unproductive? Do they have the resources they need? What is the current leadership like? Who are the people in the group and how do they work together? What are their roles and skills? Can they get the job done? How could you change things for the better? Is the work not as cool, but essential to the organization?
It is easy to imagine that management might be giving you this hard nut to crack to see exactly what you are made of. Are you a leader that can step into a mess and clean it up or are you someone that is opportunistic and climbs up the ladder on the coat tails of others?
Bad assignments that need to get done and that you can step up to the plate and get done well - well, you can't get much better of a definition of opportunity.
On the other hand, you don't want to take some meaningless or unachievable task that leads nowhere.
Assess the situation, take your best guess and then get to work.
My (limited) background: I've been in Tech for 10+ years, some of it as a manager, VP, SVP. I've actually gone up the ladder, gone back to being technical (coder/architect) and gone back up to management. And I've had my share of people refuse 'promotions'. I disagree with the guy who said "you're obviously the wrong person for the job." Some of the most intelligent managers out there know when to avoid a mess. I personally would much prefer choosing someone who recognizes the mess over someone who is just excited to be managing.
The answer to your particular situation depends a lot on your corporate culture. The following questions might help clarify things:
* What happens to managers who fail in your company? Are they fired? Do they get another chance?
* Does the company routinely promote technical people into management? Or do they prefer bringing in outside people? Or do they just keep the managers they have? Or to put it another way, is this your last chance? Or will there be more opportunities?
* Are you highly valued? That is, if someone says "Hmmm... X, Y, and Z are great", are you X, Y, or Z? [A mediocre worker might need to seize at any opportunity. A great one will probably get several chances.]
Some other thoughts:
* If the team is really so dysfunctional, then it's unlikely that someone new to management will be able to fix it. It sounds like they need someone seasoned enough in management to be able to use their authority easily, discern whose opinions can be trusted, defuse the existing problems, etc. You might not be a good choice.
* Make SURE that you get the authority to remove people from the project. Without requiring someone else's approval. Otherwise, you might get stuck with a bad team and the inability to fix it. (Hiring the right people is really the greatest tool a manager has - everything else pales in comparison to having the right people on the team.)
* If you don't want to take the job, you need a good excuse why you shouldn't. 'The project isn't cool' is terrible - and, at least for me, would prevent you from ever getting considered for another promotion. I want managers I can depend on, even when the work is boring but necessary.
* A good excuse might be something like: "I appreciate the offer, but our team is really working well right now and I don't feel right about abandoning them at this crucial point." or "I think we're on the verge of some critical research right now, and I would really like to stay on the team." If you can subtly make the point "well, I could do it but I think there are other things that are more important for me to do", you would be in the best position.
* Finally, if you do take the position: There is absolutely nothing (in my opinion) so kickass as turning a dysfunctional team into a functional one. For me, it rivals any coding that I've ever done. The perception that "oh, THAT team will definitely get it done." is great - and when you know you turned it around, that's a bonus.
just like tucan sam.
THAT is funny!
If you become the CEO of a troubled company and it fails it doesn't reflect poorly on you. Once you've joined the "CEO" club you're golden. All potential companies looking to hire you as their new CEO care about is that you have already been a CEO. Ignore the fact that your previous companies have failed miserably.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
can you ask for responsibility then expect to pick only easy jobs?
take the job and turn the team around! you WILL be overlooked next time if you can't show some determination.
Your management seems to be giving you an opportunity to demonstrate you are capable of increased responsibility, but you seem reluctant to step up to the plate. You can't always pick your assignments, you know. You are going to have to decide what is more important, your ambition or your comfort level. As Bill the Bard put it, ambition should be made of sterner stuff. If you turn down this opportunity, you will probably be passed over at the next opportunity for somebody who is more about fixing problems than avoiding them.
"...and that wraps up current strategy. Lastly, the flubinator team needs to be discussed. Is this a viable project? Is it time to abandon that project? Can we do so without losing any valuable employees?"
"Well, sir, I feel we've nursed them along long enough. Even if the idea could pan out, it isn't going anywhere with that team, and I suspect we can do nothing about it. The team lead is the only person worth keeping, as he has all the team data worth keeping. We need to move him somewhere safe, without alerting the remainder of the team before we kick-ban them from our servers..."
random chuckles around the table
"Hey, you remember that guy who applied for my last position, three rungs above himself? Like he could come close to replacing me. Anyway, what if we 'promote' him to the team lead, let him do the dirty work, and then if there's room somewhere else in the company he can start at the bottom again?"
"Sound goods. The donuts are gone and tee time's in 15 minutes, we'd best be ending the meeting. Anything else?"
silence...
"Good day everyone."
-Adam
Sometimes you just don't know how it's going to turn out. Once a couple of us managers put a guy over a team because he seemed ambitious. Maybe he wasn't all he was cracked up to be, maybe his lackeys were too stupid, or maybe the project wasn't interesting enough. Anyway this project is just dragging along and we are probably going to replace this guy. One of my colleagues retired a while back and some lackey applied for his job, so we're going to see what this new guy can do. If he doesn't want to do it we'll end up canning the sucker, he obviously doesn't want to be where he is, and if he won't take on this position then he can't handle just one little team. We don't need people like that around here. Amazing though how familiar this sounds...I hope that little prick isn't asking a bunch of nerds about his life decisions. Might as well ask women how to properly piss standing up.
Obviously, these guys are putting a lot of confidence in you. Do you think that upper management normally hands over fixing a dysfunctional team to someone who has yet to have any leadership experience? No, normally, that is a job that's given to veterans.
You need to do a few things before you take the job. Firstly, you need to find out everything you can about the people working on that team, the ex-management, the project, it's history, and what-not -- everything! -- before you meet any of the members of the team. You need to walk in there knowing the situation from day one. Secondly, you need to talk to your superior who offered you the job about what he thinks is wrong with the team and some general ideas he might have. You should also ask him to get you in touch with the best managers at the company, preferrably one's who have done turn-around jobs. Thirdly, you need to make sure you're walking in there with absolute authority to hire, fire, and discipline workers. You can't have those on your team second-guessing everything you say and jumping over your head to higher management. Fourthly, you need to understand exactly what your superiors expect from you, and the possible consequences of not succeeding. If this is something they really don't expect to be turned around, they probably won't hold it against you for failing.
Once your introduced to your team, you need to assume immediate authority as to what's going to go on, but you should also be receptive to inputs from your team-members.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Would this be your first time leading a project? If yes, then you should decline the bad project, as it could be more of a career killer than declining it. Your company should have enough savvy to know better anyway, that troubled projects need experienced troubleshooters to pull them out of the muck. If they don't see that, explain it to them, laying out it would better for you to cut your teeth on something better.
I've seen this happen to a good mate, he took on a real mess, struggled heroically, but ultimately failed and it cost him. Then I've also seen a great troubleshooter come in and rescue the most terminally ill project ever. The difference being experience, which is ony gained from working the good projects first and then moving "up" to the bad ones.
Then again, if you do take it on and pull it off, your reputation is made. Its just a very high risk manouvre...
For me, I find the measure of a person, to be confronted with a responsibility they do not want, but fully commit to it anyway. If the results are bad, well that happens it was an uphill battle to begin with, but of course it would be better if the results are good.
Is it known that this unit is as bad as it sounds? It would pay to let the seniors know how you feel about the team and what the price of failure would be.
Nothing would impress the higher ups better than to turn a dysfunctional and unproductive *unit* into a fucntioning team. If your company has a corporate working philosphy, you can use that to you advantage to get this unit rolling in the right direction.
If it were me, I would not pass this promotion up unless I already know I could do it.
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
I'm about to change jobs. I had an opportunity to help a different department with a critical operation. The work was very different to my existing job and it wasn't exactly clear what I would be doing. I'd been assigned to help a specialist who had no idea of how to get best value from me, so I found out who the main mover, (Project Manager), was and he gave me the low down on the main issues. He also gave me the opportunity to get involved at a level that had not been considered by the folk that had drafted me in.
They got value from me for sure! There was the reward of having a very real impact on business.
It occured to me that my old job = boredom = stress. I actually dreaded going to work back then. On returning to the old job, nothing had changed. WRONG!!! I had changed!
Give me a project, procedures, a remit and resources and I'll deliver. Left in a rut, doing the same old tasks, there is no challenge and no job satisfaction for me.
Don't get me wrong. The folk I've been working with are decent, peaceable and well meaning. However, that place has been like Kryptonite to my soul. The management structure changed recently, a bit too late, potentially giving me more say in how things are done. This is where the hint of doubt can creep in and say " look, you can stay here and it'll all be fine and dandy".
Yeah sure! Like last year and the year before. My position had already been compromised. There are times in life, jobs, projects, frienships and relationships, where each party is pulled towards divergent paths.
It may be the hardest path to take but choose the one which allows you to grow as a person.
One cautionary note. You can be a no limits person but be sure that you retain a sense of balance and
ask yourself the question "why do I want this?". If you have the answer - go forward.
Good luck!
My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
You stated:
I do have career ambitions to move up the ladder of responsibility and authority
Watch out! The bosses are prone to shove you up the ladder of responsibility, while leaving you on the same rung of authority.
Better to serve in Heaven than to rule in Hell.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Working on shitty projects almost made me burn out of software development entirely, yet I see other people whore themselves to these projects year in year out with out a care in the world. It makes me thankful for diversity, that for every shitty job, there's someone just as shitty to take it.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
First off I would sit down with your manager and discuss your issues with the other team, try not to be negative. See what they want, maybe they hope you can turn the other team around (doing so would be a big feaather in your cap) or maybe managment doesn't understand how bad the other team is. I guess the important thing is to try and understand both sides and make sure managment understands your posistion. Just remeber if you turn it down they might not offer you another one for a long time if ever.
I am sure that this is intended as a test. The real question is will they let you do what is necessary to succeed? Find out before you say yes. Go to the person who would be your boss and tell them you are excited about the challenge, but things are in serious need of fixin'. Then make sure they will give you the control you need to make it work before you say yes.
* Make SURE that you get the authority to remove people from the project. Without requiring someone else's approval. Otherwise, you might get stuck with a bad team and the inability to fix it. (Hiring the right people is really the greatest tool a manager has - everything else pales in comparison to having the right people on the team.)
This is the golden nugget of information and this is why I would never accept a management position over people who were not up to the job. If the company is willing to get rid of them, why have they not done so already? The options for incompetents are:
* Train them into competency
* Move them somewhere that they will cope
* Bring in better staff to do their job and let them fester away
* Make them leave, somehow.
If none of these have been tried, then what makes you think you'll be given the resources or authority to do them yourself? It's not exactly rocket science. Unless the previous manager was a complete incompetent too, and didn't comminicate the issues to his own boss.
Of course, if the problem is not competency but motivation, then the job is far easier, if you are yourself strongly motivated. Motivation is contagious. Strongly motivated people motivate those around them, just by being keen. This is not so much a skill but a predisposition.
Well, this is how I see it from my lowly position of tech grunt, anyway.
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
However, I've been getting some signals from various superiors that I might be put in charge of another team; the trouble is, that team is dysfunctional, unproductive, and the focus is not as cool as what I'm working on now. I do have career ambitions to move up the ladder of responsibility and authority, and even recently applied for a job three rungs up, mostly as a way to get noticed by the big wigs. It looks like they noticed, but that project looks like a minefield.
You should send a letter to Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, he was in a similar conumdrum a few months ago.
1) Require that you have absolute control of hiring and firing decisions for the group, as well as control of methodology (which is where you get to have your fun - try eXtreme Programming, for instance!), and a clear description of the objectives, and with a tacit understanding of time-versus-money tradeoffs. If you don't have all of those things up front, then you can safely turn it down with a reason - you're prudent.
2) Wait a few weeks, and do a "review", starting the paper trail for everybody who you don't want to keep, and giving "Good" ratings to those who perform exceptionally, and exactly one "Exceptional" rating if you have someone you can't lose.
3) Terminate/transfer the first person on your lamers list. Tell the group that it was a "mutual decision", which is a code phrase for "fired for underperformance".
4) Hire someone overqualified to replace them. Someone you can delegate things to and make sure they get done. Make sure you earn their personal loyalty - their job is to cover your ass while getting lots of work done, your job is to keep your manager off theirs so they can get to the "work" part. Never let them shirk covering your ass, though.
5) Arrange to transform the group into something more like what you want to be doing.
6) Repeat steps 3 & 4 as necessary, but always hire good people, even if you have to wait, and way better than the person you transfered/terminated.
7) In 9 months to a year, if things are still aren't cool enough, blame the previous management for the lameness of the project, then promote someone from within to be the 'group lead', focus on 'strategy', then go off and found another group looking for cooler ('another challenge') something to do.
-Anonymanager
You say you're happy with the current team, working on a pleasant project. I'd love to be in your shoes and unless you're getting paid minimum wage ,which would suck, I'd turn down the offer.
:)
Humans always look for ways to further complicate their lives, neglecting to live the moment and realize you don't always have to "climb the ladder" as you say, to be perfectly happy.
Good luck with your decision!
Ultimately it's your decision and you will probably hear just as many "just do it's" as "don't touch it with a ten foot pole."
Personally though, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Why? Because I know I can do it. I am two years out of my undergrad, been taking classes at night and almost have my grad degree (both in engineering). I have a lot of leadership experience and fully expect (granted, part of this is ego) to be CEO of a company or President of this country one day.
I know I can succeed, I just need to prove it to others, and this is the perfect chance.
Successful people didn't become successful by taking the safe road, they took chances, took a risk and succeeded. If you aren't up for a challenge like this, you probably won't get as far as you hope. Take the risk, that's what I would do.
-dave
/., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
Wanna know what's cool? Taking a group of people working on an unsuccessful project and helping them turn both themselves and it around. There's nothing quite so satisfying as helping someone put their career back on track and watching them become successful in their own right.
Some advice:
Good luck and welcome to the team. Management can be very rewarding when done right.
You know your company better than I do, but most places are willing to give you a second chance at a promotion . . . someday. Think of it as one "turn down promotion free" card before you aren't asked again.
That said, if the person who will be evaluating you if you take the promotion and fail is not the same as the current person evaluating you in your team's project, and if your new manager/supervisor/boss wouldn't be too understanding about if the new project fails (or needs someone to pin the blame on if it would fall on their shoulders otherwise), try to say "thanks, but no thanks."
Don't worry so much about how the job affects your prospects, but consider what the failing project is doing for the company.
For instance, you mention that the other team is dysfunctional and unproductive, in addition to doing less interesting work. This is what you need to analyze: why is it dysfunctional and unproductive? Is it because they're not receiving the proper support from higher up (budget, new employees, whatever)? This can be fixed, and you might be the person to do it. Perhaps it's failing because of some motivation or personnel issues (good people who simply don't work well together or perhaps even undesirable employees)? Again, you might be the person to fix this.
On the other hand, if the project is doomed to failure because they're, for instance, investigating perpetual motion (eg, some ludicrous idea pushed down by some high-up bonehead), I would explain to my supervisors why I believe the project is a misallocation of resources.
Some immediately applicable suggestions:
Posting anonymously since I don't want slashdot to know that I'm part suit....
My suggestion would be to consider the future after (if) you choose this job promotion, a year or two and you might get an even better job and enjoy it more than you do now.
However you should check and see if there is a tier above this offer and not a dead end.
Also, if your company sees failure or lack of progress as a lack of effort and acts accordingly stay where your are.
There may be another person chomping on their bit to get the job, let them have it, show maturity.
Good luck!
I eat my grapes at room temperature, cuz the cold ones hurt my teeth
It sounds like an excellent opportunity *if* you can see you'd clearly have support from above in reforming the other team. If not, ask why.
+++OK ATH
Damn - you've described my situation so perfectly I had to check to make sure I hadn't posted this myself in my sleep!
A little planning goes a long way...
Taking over an obviously fucked project is the best opportunity you will ever see.
It's obviously up shit creek, right?
Your opportunity is to head in there with all guns blazing and fix the situation. This is fun. This is serious, major, fun. Nobody is going to disagree. Your boss is going to back you to the hilt, because he has no other choices.
You can pull your head in and be completely boring. That's fine: there's room in the world for people who want boring stuff. They're essential. They make sure I get water to my house, and that I pay my tax.
People who make stuff happen are important too. I'd like to think that they are more important, but maybe I'm biased :-)
You have a choice: do you want to learn?
Go for it.
You say the current team is a mess. Management probably know that and want you to fix it. So the question to you is - can you fix it?
If you cannot, you'll have a miserable time working with people you don't get on with on a "less cool" project. And you'll probably end up with a blot on your CV which will take a bit of rubbing out.
But that is the downside. The upside is that, if you can fix the team, you'll have a great time because your achieveing something (in human rather than technical terms). The un-coolness won't matter, and you'll have gold star on your CV.
So it is time to do a bit of self-evaluation. Are you up to it? Of course, you cannot know, but you can make a guess. And then you have to take a risk. But it is a risk either way. If you go for it, you may fail. If you don't it may be a while until the next opportunity comes along (though it will - very few things are Once In A Lifetime).
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
in fact, you should avoid any promotion opportunity which might require wit, determination, creativity and the ability to fix stuff or motivate people.
In your place, I'd hold out until they offer to mail you your pay check at home while you telecommute. It's a well-known fact that all managers are lazy and stupid, so why expect to get promoted for doing something even remotely resembling work ?
Oh, and another really helpful tip - use Startrek as the basis for making life decisions. No, really - it's sooooo realistic !
It's all very well in practice, but it will never work in theory.
This is known as 'eliminate the assholes', of Dilbert fame. Trouble is, are you being given this job to elimiate the assholes in the team, or are you the asshole they want to eliminate. Also, is your organisation healthy or is it a beaurocratic nightmare? If I got a job 3 rungs up, I'd be CEO, but your place sounds a bit like a 'Yes Minister' sketch: "I'm the Permanent Secretary, I report to the Cabinet Secretary, Bernard is your Principal Private Secretary he works for you, but reports to me. Bernard has 2 Private Secretaries, I have 3 Assistant Permanent Secretaries." "Do you all type?" "Gosh no, Mrs Briggs does that, shes the secretary" So it sounds like you might do well to get a bit Machiavelian, and take your new job on the condition that you can move sideways to a safe harbour if it doesnt work out. Say you are only doing the new job to get a bit of experiance. Perhaps you need to work out who is supporting this promotion, do they dislike you, are they using you to get at the guy you will be replacing, or is it a genuine offer?
**TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
I mean, if it's offered to you, take it with the understanding that you plan on turning an unproductive team into a productive one or will clean house and hire productive people.
If this is your first gig as a manager, you should look at using an existing manager as a mentor and maybe the two of you can work through whatever issues you've got with the new team.
Afterall, its a step up. Even if it doesn't help your career now, there's no telling what doors it might provide in the future.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Obviously neither are you.
You say that you "recently applied for a job three rungs up"...mostly to get noticed. Okay, they've obviously noticed. If you knew what it took to do well in that higher-up job AND HAD IT, then leading and fixing the screwed-up team is something that you could do, and enjoy the chance to prove yourself.
Now they're wondering whether you're a silly twit with fantasies of being a big shot, a wimp who is allergic to any hard or dirty work, somebody who's drive & ambition ride a mood-swing yo-yo, or what.
I'd say that it's time for you to either:
(a) Put on your Able & Motivated Leader hat, start telling them about the prompt & sure moves that you feel are needed to get Team Screw-Up producing, and solicit their views on the subject.
(b) Admit that you've screwed up, and that noticing you was a big waste of their time.
It's easy to make up & spread cool- and credible-sounding stuff. Finding & checking hard facts is hard work.
You being setup. Find out by whom and what their goals are.
First of all, can you turn this team around? It doesn't matter what anyone's goals are if you can bring the team around. In fact nothing will look better than to have low guys publicly thanking you for turning the team around. (Depending on your orginization... at one job the GUI team was turned around and everyone on the project thanked the new manager for getting them to join the team)
If you are not sure you can turn it around, now you have to reseach. (Odds are you can't be 100% sure) Make sure your research is public, if they don't see you thinking hard about this they will conclude you don't care. (You might or might not get another chance)
I'd start with the guy 4 above you, the one who you wanted to be your boss when you applied for the roll 3 above you, and see what he knows. Get 1/2 and hour with him, and chat about it. If he set you up hoping you can turn this around, then you must take it, this is a test of your abilites, failure might be expected, and he wants to see how you handle it, and how close to success you get anyway. If he knows nothing about this, at least he knows that someone is setting you up, and knows what you look like, and might even look for you.
Next talk to your potential new boss about the team. Tell him your concerns, and see if he agrees, and what he wants from you. See if he wants you to do well or not.
Find out who wants you to fail. People might or might not know about your application to the higher position, but if they know some will see you as compitition to destroy. If you are any good someone will hate you no matter what you do. You have to deal with them, part of the job, so make sure you do. Don't let politics at your level affect those below you. Don't ignore politics though, that is dangerious.
What is your family situation? If you are heavily in debt you might be better off taking easy positions that will not move you up, but at least you won't have live on unemployment when/if they cut the failing project. If your spouse is power hungry and you want to keep him/her you might be forced to jump at this opportunity.
Don't be afraid to take this position just for experience knowing you will fail. You will have the position on your resume, which might be what it takes to get the next job elsewhere.
Make your decision. Don't ignore the advice of others, but you have to decide for yourself.
I've been managing software development teams for around 7 years now. My initial promotion into management was scary - I was working on a politically highly sensitive project, using technology I'd never seen before, when the project manager left. He was one of the most respected managers in the organisation, and I was asked to take over the project - which was still at the very early stages.
I thought about many of the same questions posed in this post - I knew how bad the politics were likely to get, I didn't feel comfortable with the technology we were using, and I didn't think I'd get the corporate support to help me deliver.
But I took the challenge. Why ? Because I saw that delivering this seemingly impossible project would strengthen my position as a manager, because I believed in the team we'd created, and because I did my homework.
Homework is essential : I made sure I had a mentor. He was a senior manager elsewhere in the organisation who could help me work through managerial issues, and pull a few strings when I needed to bypass a political hurdle. I sat down with the team members and worked through our plan for the next 10 weeks and saw we could achieve our goals. The team members and I discussed what the change from "co-worker" to "boss" would mean for us all, and we were all fine with it. I discussed the project in detail with the person who would become my new boss, and made sure he had the wherewithall to back me up with a lot of the politics of the situation. I drank a lot of coffee with the other manager at that level to find out the realities of the situation, and then I made the jump.
It worked out for me - but I made sure I understood the situation well enough to believe the odds were in my favour. It took hard work, a lot of help from the team and my peer group, mentor and boss, but our project was an outstanding succes. I was rewarded with - guess what - new projects which were in way more trouble than that first one.
So, think about what it means to be a manager. As a manager, your value to the company is largely your ability to get other people to perform at the peak of their ability to fulfill goals that further the company's interests. That means your value is far greater if you rescue a failing project than if you take over a project that is already near-optimal and maybe eek out a couple of improvements.
You personally will learn far more from managing a project in trouble (as long as you have the organisational support that makes a succes possible) than from taking over a surefire winner. Take the opportunity to learn - but only if that is what you want, and if that is what you think you are good at.
It's all very well in practice, but it will never work in theory.
If you just flat refuse the promotion, that will look bad and will probably inhibit your career advancement, definitely at that company. It will make you seem like someone who doesn't want to be in management. Odds are you won't get another offer.
But you can examine the group you're being offered and look for the structural problems that make it a doomed opportunity. You can then say you'll take the position, provided you are given the tools and the management backing you need to be successful. Make sure that the political support you need is really there at the highest levels of management that could reasonably influence your organization -- preferably, you will hear these assurances in person from the necessary individuals themselves. Listen carefully and be sure they are actually saying what you need them to say, or are at least giving you an acceptable alternative.
You should NOT accept a position where you have been set-up for failure. But if you don't accept such a position, everyone in management with visibility into your rejection of the offer must understand that you turned down the offer because the position is structurally hopeless and you were not given the tools necessary to ensure success. Go see these people in person and explain, preferably before you formally turn down the offer.
Finally, you have issues with this assignment for more than one reason. If the bottom line is you just don't want to do this assignment, there's nothing wrong with telling your management chain exactly what you do want -- and I would encourage you do to so. Maybe they have some creative ideas. I've found that directly asking for what you really want is a powerful act -- maybe a quarter of the time you just get it outright, a quarter of the time you'll get it if you're patient, a quarter of the time you can get 70-90 percent of what you want, and the last quarter, at least you know to look for it somewhere else (like at a different company, in your case).
They might want to place you on the crumby one hoping to make it better. I'd (me) except it and get the project into good order. Then half way through ask about a promotion. If you did good work they should recognise you being the head and promote you. Of sourse depending on what field and what kind of job.
After reading all these Dilbertish posts on promotion strategies, I got down on my knees and offered thanks to Whomever provided me with the opportunity to cash out in 2000 and retire forever. Now that I have had my most stressful moment of the day, I think I will go to the Mud House for a cup of coffee and read the paper and take a nap. It sucks that there was no "Curb Your Enthusiasm" last night. Uber