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Candidate Ads, Coming Soon To An Inbox Near You

ooby writes "MSNBC reports that Bush and Kerry plan to shoot off a million or so emails to their closest friends. By using the Internet to distribute ads, presidential candidates believe they can reach more people using less money. I guess that's why they wrote that loophole in that awesome new spam law."

71 of 505 comments (clear)

  1. This will get ugly by erick99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is what will allow this form of campaigning to get very ugly.

    And unlike those TV ads, the videos that appear on the Internet face none of the content regulations of the 2002 campaign finance law, including the statement by the candidate of "I approved this ad" that has given some campaigns pause before launching negative political ads. Web videos have the potential to be nastier than the typical TV ad.

    I don't think either campaign will be able to avoid the tempation. I also don't think the virus writers will be able to hold back either...

    Happy Trails!

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:This will get ugly by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We've already seen this set of loopholes exploited by the Bush team who e-mailed out an anti-Kerry video that doesn't contain the "I approve..." video from Bush that would be required if it was placed as a TV ad. Not too many people saw the e-mailed ad, but the major news organizations did and the cable networks all felt obligated to run the 30 second a few times amid several segments that discussed it.

      It's not exactly an ad that's destined for the hall of fame of political advertising. This is far too early in the campaign to be going negative. It really seems like we're in for a bumpy ride of an election, especially if Kerry decides to return fire.

  2. But what I don't understand is, by pheared · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With all this talk about how much everyone hates spam, even legislation supporting this idea, why would a candidate want to even come close to looking like they are spamming?

    It seems like it's too dangerous. Although, I guess there is a reason why spammers continue to spam. They really want that walking-around-in-their-underwear-at-walmart-scopi ng-the-latest-penis-enhacement-pills crowd. It almost makes sense when you consider it that way.

    1. Re:But what I don't understand is, by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "With all this talk about how much everyone hates spam, even legislation supporting this idea, why would a candidate want to even come close to looking like they are spamming?"

      For the same reason they continue with political attack ads and the like even though nobody likes them: Everybody else is doing it, so why not? You may lose votes, but it certainly won't give votes to the other guy since they're doing it, too. Don't forget that many of the same members of Congress that supported the national do-not-call list still use telephone campaigning. Come to think of it, the "everybody else is doing it..." bit also explains much of their behavior while in office (re: USA PATRIOT Act).

      Then there's the additional reason "Because it works."

      "It seems like it's too dangerous."

      It's kinda like "Mutually Assured Destruction." They'll all stop as soon as everybody else stops.

    2. Re:But what I don't understand is, by JuggleGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
      He states that the individual state licenses we use now should change to a national standard, and that you should use them every time you log onto a computer, purchase liquor (and apparently anything else). And telling the government about every time you log on, every time you buy a 6 pack, and things like that don't sound invasive to you?

      Maybe you just didn't read the article.

  3. It's OK by Amsterdam+Vallon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least this is IMPORTANT spam. Granted, it's still spam, but the fate of our great country depends on it.

    I call on all Americans to not write spam filters for this. We should read what our candidates have to say.

    I love my country more than anything else, and want this 2004 election to truly make a differences.

    --

    Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
  4. Oh please... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which would you prefer:

    1. Junk mail, which has a realworld cost (printing paper means felling trees); or

    2. An email, which has negligible cost and is easily disposed of by deletion?

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Oh please... by Fancia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If, during a week's vacation, physical junk mail is delivered in such quantities that it overflows my porch and causes the post office to begin burning or returning to sender all of my mail, including actual personal mail *and* each piece of junk mail can end up costing *me* and not the sender, then I'll hate it more than I hate spam.

      --

      Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
    2. Re:Oh please... by cyberformer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This tradeoff would work if every spam message actually replaced a piece of physical junk mail. The problem is that a junk mailer can send millions of spams for the cost of one paper flyer, and they do.

      Does anyone know if spam has actually decreased the volume of paper junk mail, or at least slowed its increase? My guess is that it probably hasn't, except in a few specialist areas such as press release distribution.

  5. Candidate spoofing by irhtfp · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I can see spoofing (as in faking the source of) these types of emails to become very common.

    In fact, it was the first thing I thought of! How will I know whether the email I got was really from the candidate who supposedly sent it?

    --
    I've made up my mind and now I've got to lie in it.
  6. Re:Email? What about phone?! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you said why we like this guy.

    "I'm not Bush!"


    I suppose the saying, "The devil you know..." would be kind of lost on you, huh?

  7. What Spam by USAPatriot · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The article doesn't say anything about you and me receiving "spam", or unsolicited bulk email from these campaigns.

    It only refers to their respective rank-and-file, I guess these people have signed up on some list to receive them.

    Once again, Slashdot hypes and puffs something up to be more than it really is. No need to get worked up over "Your Rights".

    --

    Slashdot Moderation: From positive to terrible in 2 "insightful" posts.

  8. Re:The solution by dustinbarbour · · Score: 2, Insightful

    won't work.. you think they actually read their emails? it would be my guess that the emails go through a few screeners first. so if the aim is to piss off some low-level peons, go right ahead. all i know is that those bastards better not be spamming me..

  9. Bush deficit visualized by mr_majestyk · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What ever happened to fiscal conservatism?

  10. Dean didn't lose because of spam by Amsterdam+Vallon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Remember back how during the .com boom, people always invested in the stocks that were gaining the most? Well, just because something gains quickly doesn't mean it's truly valuable.

    Howard R. Dean's campaign is no longer a .com-style campaign. All the fucking momentum is gone. And momentum followers in the hippie crowd have jumped ship to Kerry, or the ultimate 9/11-spawned momentum man, President W. Bush.

    If Dean doesn't make legit promises now, he's going to lose. The campaign will die. He will die inside. Many will mourn the loss of the only non-special interest candidate.

    Granted, I'm a computer science professor, but I've taken many an econ and poly sci class; what we're seeing in campaign 2004 is not uncommon, and has happened before.

    So don't blame anything or anyone for Dean's limp cock campaign but Dean himself. It's not spam. It's his fault, and I feel bad for him because he's fairly cute and seems nice and suitable.

    --

    Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
  11. Re:Been getting similar things for awhile(maybe) by slavitos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have! I think I've been getting both democratic and republican emails... Yet another reason to vote LIBERTARIAN!

  12. Perspective by COBOL/MVS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You could think of all the paper you won't have stuffed in the door to your apartment/house thanks to email.

    Seriously, how could you argue that this is spam? And how is this any different than putting up a billboard, stuffing flyers in your windshield wipers or putting ads on tv?

    Other than the usual "I'm for America and the American worker" blatherskite that either candidate will put out, you may find some substance if you dig deep enough. How else are you going to reach the public at large who would otherwise just as soon not vote? How else are you going to get an otherwise issue ignorant public educated on what you stand for and to get excited about your position? What's it going to take to get you to ask questions and find the answers about the next four years?

    Spam? No. Candidate education? Yes.

    --
    GOBACK.
  13. OT: Political culture by E_elven · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >I don't think either campaign will be able to avoid the tempation. I also don't think the virus writers will be able to hold back either...

    Everybody thinks Kerry is going to get the nomination and that's why he probably will. Not saying he's any better or worse than any of the other guys, but he's played his media cards well.

    I'd personally go with Kuchinich since he's the most sensible of the lot (crazy as hell, but sensible.)

    My advice: vote for whomever you think is the best candidate, be it one of the main two or one of the no-shot independents. Only if absolutely none of them appeal to you, vote *against* the person you don't want to win. And under no circumstances abstain from voting. Unlike some places, they won't cancel the elections because of low turnout.

    Hell, even Russia has the 'none of the above' option. If 30% votes none, the election is cancelled.

    --
    Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
    1. Re:OT: Political culture by E_elven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not just that.. somehow the American political culture is heavily bandwagony -a trend that's much less prominent in the other five or so cultures I've witnessed an election in.

      The key is to have the media spin you as the likely winner. It will make you so. Kind of like if Greenspan says things are looking down, they suddenly do so because, well, Greenspan said so and it must be true so let me just put this money under my mattress.

      --
      Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
    2. Re:OT: Political culture by QuasiCoLtd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And thanks to that mentality we will ALWAYS have a 2 party system in the US, which is little better than an Oligarcy. It is my personal belief that If all Americans voted for the candiate they truly want in office elections would turn out much differently. Unfortunately the media has brainwashed us all into believing that only the Dems and Reps matter. How often do you see any Newspaper or news show interview anyone from a non Dem/Rep party? And I'm not talking about Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, or Jesse Ventura, the only reason they were given media attention was because of their fame and their novelty, not because anyone cared to see them elected (and when the Ventura thing backfired and he DID get elected look how they treated him). People simply MUST start voting whats in their hearts and more importantly, LEAVE THE FUCKING HOUSE AND VOTE. As a Libertarian I see some problems with mandatory voting but its looking like the only way to get a real change here at home.

    3. Re:OT: Political culture by nomadic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know where people got it into their head that a 2 party system is somehow not democratic. Both parties have a wide spectrum in their members, far more than the political parties you find in other countries. People didn't vote for Perot because he was obviously unfit to fulfill his duties, they didn't vote Nader because they don't believe in his policies, and they don't vote libertarian not because they haven't heard of it but because the vast majority of the people in this country don't believe in the libertarian positions.

    4. Re:OT: Political culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Both parties have a wide spectrum in their members
      until it comes time to pick a presidential candidate. After the primaries, you find that the choices have narrowed... considerably.

    5. Re:OT: Political culture by The+Snowman · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I don't know where people got it into their head that a 2 party system is somehow not democratic.

      Democracy is about choice. As it stands right now, the only way I have to show my displeasure in both viable options (republican and democrat) is not to vote -- which is undemocratic.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    6. Re:OT: Political culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Democracy is about choice. As it stands right now, the only way I have to show my displeasure in both viable options (republican and democrat) is not to vote -- which is undemocratic.

      Where do I begin? Yes, democracy requires choice, but it doesn't require more choices. The problem with US elections is that we are presented with a choice between a Republican or a Democrat, both of whom hold positions so close together on so many issues that there is no difference. That's because deviating from a certain small territory throws the election to the other party. The choice we are never given is whether to take powers away from the government entirely. We only get to choice who will wield them.

      Having only Democrats and Republicans to choose from isn't undemocratic. It just emphasizes the flaws in democracy. Personally, I support a constitutional democracy/monarchy/republic/whatever. Constitutionally limit the power of government to defense, police and courts. Create a separation of powers between branches that don't ever answer to each other. And then the only differences between the choices of people to run it will be simple. First, are they actually competent? Second, are they corrupt, handing contracts to buddies? Since incompetence won't benefit anyone, it should be avoidable. And since corruption benefits a few at the expense of all the tax-payers, there's an incentive to keep it to a minimum.

    7. Re:OT: Political culture by ogre57 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Er, spelling? Clearly there is less practical difference than exists between ketchup and catsup.

    8. Re:OT: Political culture by overunderunderdone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And thanks to that mentality we will ALWAYS have a 2 party system in the US, which is little better than an Oligarcy.

      I get tired of the complaints about the two party system, it has it's problems but I think it is superior to most multi-party schemes. A multi-party system where only a plurality is required to win would give us elected officials that only had the support of small minorities. A system which features a run-off between the top two candidates is back to a "lesser of two evils" situation BOTH of which may represent only a small fraction of the population. The two party system provides for a wide array of factions to put forward their candidates (in the primaries) but to emerge with a consensus candidate with broad support and an eventual winner with (in most cases ;) the support of a majority.

      There were 9 different Democrats running representing a reasonably wide variety of viewpoints. You have (or had) a choice of a moderate hawk (lieberman), a super-leftist (Kucinnich) a liberal pacifist (Dean), a southern populist (Edwards), a northern liberal (Kerry), a black populist (Sharpton), a union candidate (Gephardt). Over the course of the primaries where each faction will have the chance to support their favored candidate they will end up with a consensus candidate who is at least palatable to each of the factions.

      The Republicans of course don't have such a range of choices this time around but they DID last time around (McCain, Baur, Keyes, Forbes et al) and Bush was the consensus candidate - you might think of him as either the greater or lesser of two evils, but face the fact that he was the first choice of some people and at least acceptable to a lot more. If he was wildly unpopular with any significant faction within the Republican party he would face a primary challenge.

      The dissatisfaction with this system I think has less to do with it failing to provide voters with choices but with voters failing choose the way you want them to.

    9. Re:OT: Political culture by CatPieMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wait, is this a well written, well thought out, political argument on slashdot? Can't possibly be. All most of the comments here are "Party X Sucks" or "Candidate B is a luser".

      Although I am not a Democrat (nor am I really a Republican, I am only registered as such b/c in my home town you can't say you are an 'independent' and actually have people listen to you) I would have rather seen a Dean vs Bush race (as Dean actually had some original ideas), but knew it would never happen.

      I think (although I may be wrong on this) that one of the problems with Dean is that he was seen by most people as the 'anti-Bush', and while this may get a lot of extreme leftists out and shouting 'Go Dean', the extremes scare away normal people. Beyond that, to be the anti of something, the something must exist. Most people felt that Dean is nothing without Bush (how's that for irony). Before you call me names, hear me out on this.

      Perception is the key here. If I see a candidate that I feel is the anti-Bush, as soon as Bush isn't around, what does he stand for? While you have to admire that he would so vocally issue a challange to the current president, without the +, what do you have to compare the - to (talking about electrical charges here)? '-' can not exist without '+' (or, what is 'good' without 'bad' and vice versa), and thus for many, it was percieved that Dean could not survive without Bush.

      Take it however you want, even make me an enemy if you wish. I still want to say good job a well written argument.

      -CPM

      --
      ---You're all I need, When the water runs deep, You're all I need, Now I cry my soul to sleep -- Collective Soul, Needs
  14. Re:The solution by TheIzzy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Leave it to slashdot to have people completely overreact and blow things out of proportion. I actually see email as an effective means of campeigning.

    According to the headlines, only about a million emails will be sent, and only to "close friends." That means less than 1% of the American population will see one of these emails, and I'd bet a pretty penny it won't just be in typical spam style (hint: it will actually be from a *real* address and company). The emails will probably be sent to people who have specifically given their addresses to the Republican/Democratic parties, or similar organizations that promote voting and voter education.

    When it comes to campeigning, these guys are not stupid. They know people hate spam. But they also know if they use email in a legitimate fashion, it could actually help their cameign. Assuming they don't abuse this line of communication, I think it will prove beneficial in the long run.

  15. Re:The solution by MisanthropicProggram · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mailwasher Software
    I just send a bogus invalid email addresses back at them.

    --

    There is no spoon or sig.

  16. Re:Email? What about phone?! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because he's not Bush, and seems to be the only candidate who can say that and actually stands a chance at winning.

    Is that really a good thing? Let's think about this for a moment. You want to elect someone into the highest office in the country based on the fact that you don't like the current office holder. Despite the fact that the current office holder has been mildly to outright friendly to the goals of us geeks, you want to replace him with someone who stands a chance of promoting legislation and leadership that will give more power to long term copyrights, shut down the space program, enact more DMCA type laws, promote outsourcing of our jobs, etc., etc., etc.

    You may like that idea, but some of us are a little more intelligent. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't know.

  17. Re:The most interesting question . . . by Peyna · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps the millions of people that e-mailed them?

    --
    What?
  18. This is dumber than spam by DeathToBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Spammers don't need you the way a candidate does. Most spammers have already annoyed most people, and expect that their emails will get deleted/filtered by 99% of people. Candidates need a large percentage of the population to support them, so campaigning in a way that loses you more people than you gain (such as spamming them) is not a Good Thing (TM).

    Thank God Australia hasn't gotten this far... yet...

    --
    Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
  19. Since when was the First Amendment a "loop hole"? by admiral-v · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IAAL

    The anti-spam law was limited in scope for constitutional reasons. The bill focused on content such as obscenity which could be regulated anyway based on established legal principles.

    I can't imagine the Supreme Court upholding a law that restricts people's right to political expression, the heart of what the framers intenced to protect, based on the reasoning that people find deleting the messages annoying.

    Here are some legal concepts I've heard people trying to use to support anti-spam legsilation.

    "Captive Audience": This concept, though related to the issue at hand, does not support anti-spam legislation. The fact that you receive the message in your inbox and then have to delete it is directly analogous to the snail-mail equivalent. Just because you have to look away when someone wears a "Fuck the Draft" jacket that offends you doesn't mean your rights have been infringed.

    "Time Place and Manner": This legal concept in all likelihood does not apply here. Though it's true that mass spam creates a nuissance on the part of the receiver, laws that inhibit speech need to allow an alternative method of expression. A blanket spam ban would offer no alternatives.

  20. Worry about your friends... not the campaigns by usn2fsu03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am active in politics (volunter for campaigns, member of campus political organization, etc.)

    I've never received unsolicited e-mail directly from any campaign, political committee, think tank, etc.

    I do, however, receive at least a forward a day from my other politically active friends from one of the lists their subscribed to. And yes the incoming rate has increased substantially since the presidential campaign has started.

    Like the article says "Sent out as links in e-mails, Web videos can easily be forwarded by the original recipients to scores of people, unlike direct mail that may end up in the trash."

    The campaigns do not need to spam people directly, so they won't. It will be the campaigns followers who will do the spamming.

  21. Re:if they spam me by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looks like you might not be voting this year. :-)

    -Vote for Nobody, because Nobody cares.

    --
    What?
  22. Re:Email? What about phone?! by nomadic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Despite the fact that the current office holder has been mildly to outright friendly to the goals of us geeks

    My goals are environmental protection, government regulation of corporations, universal healthcare, and civil rights.

    I don't think his voting record looks that bad.

    When you say "us geeks" I think you mean "me".

  23. Re:Caucuses and Spammaries by buysse · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that identity verification is required by campaign finance laws. There are limits on each individual's contribution -- they need to at least make a good faith effort to enforce that.

    --
    -30-
  24. Slightly OT mini-rant by bersl2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't like any of the presidential candidates? Here's an idea: don't vote (as in do abstain)!

    If they're not going to put a good enough candidate on the ballot, don't vote for the Big Two, unless you really wanted to.

    Abstension is just as much a part of the democratic process as is casting a vote, but this has been lost to America because of some two-party system in which the having of actual viewpoints has been replaced with such generality that what our parties actually stand for is mixed up and buried in misused jargon.

    So join me. I'm going to register to vote. I will vote on all state, parish (county), and municipal issues. But I would... do something really really bad... before I would vote for either the Republican or Democratic candidate for president!

    1. Re:Slightly OT mini-rant by patternjuggler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Great, you've rationalized your inability to make hard choices.

      Abstension is just as much a part of the democratic process as is casting a vote

      There isn't any penalty specified in the constitution if voter turnout is low- 10% percent turnout doesn't make the winner 10% president. Therefore, the only result you and people like you not not voting is that no major party will care about things you and people like you care about.

      The thing is, in a free country there's bound to be a huge diversity of incompatible world views- the chance that you and a candidate or party agree 100% is pretty low. Refusing to choose is just a cop-out.

      If the incumbent is a corrupt incompetent moron who can't string two unrehearsed sentences together, and the other candidate may be no better, what do you do? Kick the incumbent out- at least the guy coming in will be a little more humble and thoughtful about whether they're doing the right thing if they know the public will judge them harshly.

  25. Re:Since when was the First Amendment a "loop hole by gilroy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Blockquoth the poster:

    I can't imagine the Supreme Court upholding a law that restricts people's right to political expression, the heart of what the framers intenced to protect, based on the reasoning that people find deleting the messages annoying.

    I agree completely. This is totally analogous to the decisions wherein the Court said that political activists can come uninvited into my home and staple campaign posters to all my walls...
    Oh, wait...
  26. Re:The solution by gilroy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Blockqouth the poster:

    According to the headlines, only about a million emails will be sent, and only to "close friends."

    Funny. You'd sort of think all of their "close friends" already know that they're running... This will be used to drum up new contributions. It's political spam, pure and simple.
  27. Whoever sends me election spam.... by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...will get reported to Spamcop and then badmouthed "Yeah, KerBush said he could make my dick bigger..."
    Seriously, they have the law on their side, but morally they're no different than any other spammer.

  28. Re:Agreed. MOD PARENT +1 INSIGHTFUL. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I want to see the candidates as they truly are.

    If you're that interested then there are any number of other ways to find out. Try listening to what they say in those interviews, or reading up on their policies or doing research on their history.

    Spam is spam. I don't care if some moronic politician thinks he has a right to force some politically-correct, information-neutered e-mail into my inbox, I don't want it. The internet is not supposed to be a "push" medium, as we discovered in the 90s.

    It's pull. The information is out there. You want it? Go find it. And you'll get a much more balanced and thorough viewpoint than some e-mail put together by the candidate's marketing floozy.

  29. I don't think that will help by roystgnr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If enough of us do what you suggest, we won't receive any more spam from candidates advertising themselves. After all, a commercial spammer who pisses off only 99 people for every purchase would be a roaring success, but a political spammer who pisses off 4 people for every new convert would be a horrible failure, since 1 or 2 of those 4 people probably vote and will now vote against him.

    This won't do anything to stop negative spam, though. If you get an email talking about what an idiot Kerry is, does that make you want to vote against Edwards, Dean, or Bush?

    What's worse, if people like you are vocal enough and numerous enough, you'll just start to see a new type of spam: obnoxious emails purporting to support Candidate X, but actually sent by one of his competitors.

    You can try and strike a balance in which your reduced support for the candidate in an unsolicited email exactly balances out the increased support he might get from others, but that just sounds hard. I suggest treating political spam like any other variety: filter it, ignore it, or delete it.

  30. NOW it makes sense!!! by SmoothTom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now we can fully understand why the new federal CanSPAM law overrides existing state laws that alowed individuals to sue spammers for spam (often at about $500 per received spam).

    The politicians built in not only a specific exemption for their own SPAM, but at the same time took away from the victims the ability to sue on their own.

    --
    "Very funny, Scotty, now beam down my clothes."

  31. Re:Why spam laws will always have exceptions by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    again, dribble. SPAM IS NOT FREE SPEECH!!!! free speech is the ablity to say what you want, not the ablity to force people to listen!!!

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  32. Re:if they spam me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can vote by not selecting any of the people on the list.

    You mean write in candidates? Like maybe Mickey Mouse, Ben Kenobi, and of course, Steve Jobs?

    At least with write-ins, your vote is recorded. If you don't vote for that office, that means that you didn't care enough to vote, and that the extremists who voted to select those candidates in the primaries win...

  33. better spam than mass-mailings by TheGuinnesseur · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Would they be more likely to get your vote if they sent you a piece of cardstock in the mail with some witty slogans and a pretty photo?

    I think email campaign ads are a great idea from an environmental perspective. Imagine if your candidate of choice could say that he had saved 10,000 more trees than Pres. Bush--and all because of email. While I hate spam as much as the next guy, a nice, polite email from a candidate sent from a valid address would be great. I'd be more likely to vote for a candidate who spammed me (and let's be honest, this isn't really spam) than one who wasted paper on mass-mailings.

    Email costs significantly less than physical mailings and is a heck of a lot easier on the environment. Seriously? Would you *rather* get a piece of card stock over an email? As an added plus, maybe this could even out unbalanced campaign contributions?

    1. Re:better spam than mass-mailings by TheGuinnesseur · · Score: 5, Insightful
      1. They're profitting by this e-mail (paid if elected), so it's spam.

      Let's get real. People don't run for president because of the salary and benefit package. They do it for power. Now, in an ideal world the Presidency would be a selfless job (I'd still like to believe it is), but it's not about "paid if elected."

      If you're idealistic, it's about upholding the Constitution and enforcing laws enacted by Congress. If you're cynical, it's about cronyism, nepotism and using the people of the United States for fun and profit. Whatever way you slice it, it's not about the $250K salary.

  34. Re:Hard enough to find a good candidate... by DarkSarin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is only one solution in my eye...vote libertarian.

    Of course, it really makes me want to form a new political party--the Technocrats. This party would focus on the use of technology to better the lives of everyone, and go by the philosophy that technology should be placed in the hands of as many people as possible. This, of course, can best be done by making sure everyone has the highest possible income, and that taxes are low. (I will figure out a way to justify it...don't worry).

    All right. Who's in?

    --
    "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
  35. Re:if they spam me by Veridium · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "As much as I might like that sentiment, assuming Kerry gets the democratic nomination, who are you going to vote for?"

    Howabout whoever your conscience tells you would be the best person for the job?

    "There's no one else to vote for who would even stand an outside shot at winning the election."

    It's thinking like that that has gotten us into this mess. Voting isn't about voting for the guy you think has the best chance of winning, voting is about voting for who you think is the best person for the job.

    " Basically my question boils down to, if their choice wont make or break my vote for them, is there anyway to get politicians to make a stance on something short of having lots of money for campaign contributions?"

    yes, vote your conscience. Until everyone votes their conscience, we'll be stuck in this dead end game of "lesser of two evils" every time. You can write letters, have demonstrations, etc... As long as they can get elected because you'll vote for them out of fear of someone else winning, they're not going to listen to you. Why should they? The money comes from their corporate masters, I mean backers, and your vote comes from your fear of the other candidate.

    I'd rather vote my conscience and see four years of some guy I think is awful, than legitimize the election of someone I think is less awful by voting for them.

    --
    Think for yourself, destroy your television.
  36. in a way I am happy by beforewisdom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not excited about spam, but politics by email seems like it is leveling the playing field a bit.

    Someone who isn't a rich, "preapproved" canidate can stand toe-to-toe in emails.....well, at least come closer to it.

    Steve

  37. Re:Bush and Kerry didn't *write* the thing! by DAldredge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They fucking voted for it or signed it. It doesn't matter that they didn't write it their actions show they agree with it.

  38. But it does by bluGill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The most effective way to affect politics is run yourself and win. Next is to go to the caucuses of one major party and get some resolutions passed, and then work to get your canidate elected. However you can't run for all positions, or might not be elected, your next option isn't of much use if the rest of the party members shoot it down. So you have one more options: third party votes.

    Voting for a third party gets noticed, perhaps out of proprotion. These are people who took the time to vote and were informed on the issues. Those who vote because they should: vote party lines because "dad was a democrat so I'm a democrat and I don't care if the party has changed"; "I'm a republican, and it is better to help a party that agrees with me partially than throw away my vote". Note that these are two groups that you don't have to worry about, they will vote for you, and make up a large part of the voters. Polititions have to worry about those who can be persuaded. Many voted for Kennedy because Nixon sweated on TV, not for serious reasons, so you don't have to worry about serious issues to get a nother group. Who is left? A very small group that you have to influence, because they

    Of course polititions are also aware some people will always vote libratarian. (or whatever) However they care about those who might vote for them, if they were just a little more "left" or a little more "right". The only thing stopping them is there are those in a the middle who also will change votes, so it is a balance, get as many fringe votes as you can without scaring away the middle voters.

    They may not act like it, but polititions always care about third parties, because their job is to get re-elected. And therefore you vote counts. If you can get a lot of others to vote with you your vote counts even more. (actually if you can get a lot of people to vote one way you have more power than even the richest man in the world)

  39. Re:if they spam me by compass46 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If enough people just don't vote for either of the idiots, then maybe the people running the parties will work harder to find decent canidates however in a typical election the number of people that don't pick one of the two major parties is so small it doesn't matter.

    Good point. I seriously think that today's political climate is designed to drive people away. For simplicity's sake we'll neglect the electoral college in this example. If only 10% of the electorate turns out and canidate "A" receives a majority of the total votes cast (which would be >5% of the total electorate) then canidate A wins. There is no incentive for change because someone will always win. Forget the fact that our government derives their legitamacy from the people. Most people I find aren't really aware of that and feel it is their duty to vote and support the system no matter what they're given to choose from.

    In case you're wondering, I openly advocate not voting in the hopes that the current political climate will "go away" (not exist because the people no longer recognize it) and we can start with a fresh system. We did that once before remember... Think of it as a total scratch rewrite. :)

  40. Re:Since when was the First Amendment a "loop hole by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If you're so pissed off that Internet email allows unsolicited messages to be delivered to you then you can choose to not participate. If, on the other hand, you choose to participate in a messaging system that you know permits -- at the protocol level -- unsolicited messages, well, you've got to accept the fact that you might get a few of those messages.

    I should know better than to reply to an anonymous coward, but here we go.

    If you would like a direct analogy that is exactly on point, here it is: laws already exist banning junk faxes. These laws have gotten the thumbs-up from courts, despite advertisers trying to raise First Amendment questions.

    The receiver of the message necessarily bears some of the cost of the message--toner, paper, temporary loss of use of the line for fax machines; connection and bandwidth charges for spam.

    The First Amendment rights of others end when they start charging me (directly or otherwise) so they can express themselves. The First Amendment guarantees one the right to speak--it doesn't guarantee that I will pay to listen.

    --
    ~Idarubicin
  41. What I wouldn't object to by lkaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I certainly wouldn't object to receiving one email from each candidate stating their stances on important issues and why I should vote for them.

    This email should contain embedded flash or any of that nonsense. Basically, it's like a candidate coming to your door. As long as they are respectful, polite, and only do it once, I see no real problem with it.

    --
    int func(int a);
    func((b += 3, b));
    1. Re:What I wouldn't object to by iso · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well I wouldn't want even *one* email, as I don't care about their election and I can't vote anyhow: I'm a Canadian living in Canada. How will these candidates ensure that they will be sending their "one" email only to American voters and not the rest of the world?

  42. Re:But you HAVE to vote for one of them... by pben · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only vote that you thow away is one where you vote for someone because they could win. If you don't think that he or she is the best, you are only encouraging policies that you don't believe in.

    The lesser of two evils is still evil.

  43. Re:if they spam me by macdaddy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Voting isn't about voting for the guy you think has the best chance of winning, voting is about voting for who you think is the best person for the job.

    Not necessarily. It a perfect world, a utopian dream if you will, you would vote for who you think is the best man/woman for the job. However this is a pipe dream and won't produce the results you want. We might all agree with what a person like Lieberman says and we might like a lot of what Sharpton says (but maybe not all of it) but we know there isn't a chance in hell that they'll win the 2004 elections. They have absolutely zlich electability. Nada. None. El Zero. It ain't gonna happen. A major change in the social and poltical views of America will not happen overnight. The first step is someone not quite as liberal as Lieberman or Sharpton. The first step is someone like Kerry or Edwards. The social masses are infinitely more likely to accept one of them for president than they are the other candidates. If we truly want a political change in the upcoming election then we must vote for the first step in our grand plan. We must vote the only person with electability. Doing anything else is a waste of your vote. Sure it's your right to vote for who you please but lets face facts people. If you don't vote for one of the candidates that can actually get elected (or a party that needs a certain percentage to be in the election next time) then you're wasting your vote. Of course voting out of the norm for your state is wasting your vote thanks to this damned electoral college, but that's another matter. You can't make a sweeping change overnight. Small steps people. Walk before you run a marathon.

  44. Re:The solution by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Leave it to slashdot moderators to label a Brainless Troll as +5 Insightful.

    Unlike YOU I actually read the article. The headline does not in any way mention "close friends" in fact, the article specifically says "to millions of the Democratic and Republican rank-and-file" which not only is not "only about a million" it actually sounds like another way of saying anyone and everyone we can find an email address for and even the vaguest excuse to claim they might possibly be interested.

    Even the writer of the articl is quick to admit how devious and underhanded this scheme is "And unlike those TV ads, the videos that appear on the Internet face none of the content regulations of the 2002 campaign finance law, including the statement by the candidate of "I approved this ad" that has given some campaigns pause before launching negative political ads. Web videos have the potential to be nastier than the typical TV ad."

    This is not even slightly about "save the environment" and other tree-hugging fantasies it's purely and simply a loophole they've carefully crafted so that they can circumvent some very important campaign laws.

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  45. the lesser of two evils by betsywetsy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You really haven't been paying attention, have you?

    Lieberman is conservative, not liberal.

    Sharpton is a very charming and acute speaker, but he's a GOP shill! Let me repeat: Sharpton is a GOP shill.

    Kucinich is the most liberal remaining candidate, and the only one who's too liberal to get elected, because of his tax policy and because of his single-payer health policy - something even Clinton could not get support for, something Dean initially tried in Vermont and couldn't get through.

    Electability is a false issue in the primaries.
    Primary voting strategy should focus on the immediate goal: the convention.
    The guy who shows up there with the most delegates is by definition electable, even if everybody voted their conscience.

    Vote to either get your guy nominated, or to get him influence defining the platform, or to stop someone else, but vote for the convention, not November. November is far away, we know little about the candidates, and we don't know what Bush will do in the meantime.

    Now, voting for the convention may not always mean voting your conscience. I think a lot of people's conscience leads them away from the current frontrunner, but they're fractured into separate camps. I know Kucinich voters are fighting for delegates, but I wish they'd consider whether they have a preference between the three more mainstream candidates who are still running.

    And the Dean and Edwards camps need to take a good long look at each other and ask themselves what the heck they're doing. They're splitting an anti-Kerry vote, and I don't think either will cede it to the other because they're too different and too determined.

  46. Re:The solution by BHearsum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Overreact?! They're SPAMMING FOR VOTES. It's as simple as that. Political campaigns are treated as a form of marketing, so why the hell should they be allowed to spam?

  47. Text for issues, television for character by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Text is fine for issues. Leadership isn't all about issues, though. It's also about character. And visual/auditory media are better for showing character.

    If you haven't done so, read up on the 1960 American presidential election, the first election with televised debates, and think about the role that face-to-face debates have in a presidential campaign.

    Also study the debates in 1992 with Clinton/Bush/Perot. In a three-candidate race, there is more positive campaigning and less negative campaigning.

    If you have a government at all, then you're on the horns of a dilemma. On one horn, if the government is democratically elected, then the people who choose the government have all kinds of stupid shallow criteria which can more and more be manipulated. On the other hand, if your government is *not* elected, then it's subject to control by smart, powerful, corruptible, evil elite people. So I guess I'd rather have Joe Sixpack who can't even punch a chad making that choice, rather than Anthony Scalia or the would-be Minitruth duckspeakers at the New York Times.

    (Or you can have less government in the first place, which is my choice. But unless you go all the way to anarchism -- which I don't, not even close -- then you have to figure out how to choose the people who lead the government that you do have).

  48. Re:But you HAVE to vote for one of them... by DebianRcksLindowsLie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem with not voting is that you get lulled into complacency, rather than the only downside being that your candidate didn't get elected. It's VERY important to vote, even if your person doesn't win. Staying up on the state of affairs is what keeps politicians on their toes, no matter where you are.

    --
    Cast your vote for choice. Check out the link below, and learn about the nastiness in Linux politics.

  49. Re:if they spam me by Veridium · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It a perfect world, a utopian dream if you will, you would vote for who you think is the best man/woman for the job."

    Actually, in the world I live in now, that is exactly what I do.

    "However this is a pipe dream and won't produce the results you want."

    And voting for the lesser of two evils will?

    "We might all agree with what a person like Lieberman says and we might like a lot of what Sharpton says (but maybe not all of it) but we know there isn't a chance in hell that they'll win the 2004 elections."

    So? Your argument seems to be that I shouldn't vote my conscience because the person I'd vote for won't win. Therefore, I should vote for someone I don't think is the best person for the job, thereby ensuring that not only will my candidate not win, but the election results will demonstrate that no one voted for them, thus leading these 'leaders' to conclude that what my candidate stood for, nobody agrees with? Sounds like I'm throwing my vote away if you ask me.

    "The first step is someone like Kerry or Edwards."

    With all due respect, I heard this line of crap back in '92. The only difference between now and then, is I won't buy it this time. You think Kerry is going to change things, then you vote for him. Clinton came to power, and what did we have? Wars, wars, and more wars. Scandal, corruption, the DMCA, etc... It was the other side of the same coin, that quite frankly, I'm sick of. You want to continue the cycle that's been going on, vainly imgining that by repeating the mistakes of the past, you're going to get a different result in the future, then you do that.

    I'm not buying into that line of thinking anymore. Like I said in my first post on this topic, I'd rather vote my conscience, and the rest of you with your daydreaming grand plans to change things, go along like sheep, believing the owned politicians, that somehow, they are the first step to change. When in reality, they are the very things that need changing.

    "we truly want a political change in the upcoming election then we must vote for the first step in our grand plan."

    Our grand plan? Who has the plan? I haven't seen it, no one asked for my input.

    "The social masses are infinitely more likely to accept one of them for president than they are the other candidates."

    I really don't care to waste my vote to appeal to the mob mentality. If the mob wants one of those people, then let them elect them. I have a conscience, and a duty and obligation to my society, to be ruled by that conscience and be true to myself. I will do this, and it won't matter how you try to spin it. I expect nothing less from you. So if you really think that thinking and voting the way you are arguing for is the best, then do so. I bear you no illwill, but in time, you will see the infinite loop that such things trap us in.

    "Doing anything else is a waste of your vote."

    On the contrary, doing anything other than voting your conscience, is throwing your vote away. I'm not part of your grand plan, like I said before, when did you get my input? I wouldn't vote lieberman either. Probably won't vote any candidate you've heard of. You can say I'm throwing my vote away, but I can look myself in the mirror every morning, and know that I spoke up for what I believe to be right. The rest of you simply chose the lesser of two evils.

    "Walk before you run a marathon."

    Exactly. The first step to change is refusing to vote along party lines, or for the lesser of two evils, and voting your conscience. If your conscience tells you to do one of the above, then do so. I bear no one any illwill for falling for the delusion I once fell for. But the only way to change things, is to take your stand as an individual, and quit imagining that you're part of some grand plan. You're not. Nobody planned anything with my input, did someone plan something with yours?

    --
    Think for yourself, destroy your television.
  50. Keeping it US only??? by advocate_one · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just hope they've gone over their lists with a nit comb to remove all non-US email addresses... cos I for one do NOT want to receive any...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  51. Re: Very OT mini-rant by quintessencesluglord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would you rather be fucked in the ass or ass-fucked?

    I'm pleased you've rationalized your ability to make the tough decisions when someone else has presumed what your choices are allowed to be.

    It would seem no major party does care about the same things I do, hence the desire to ignore them completely (I forget, which party is for heavily restricting the DMCA again? Oh.). Voting for either would only validate the fact that neither is much different from the other. It's just a question of which political favors will be returned this time. It has nothing to do with me.

    The thing is, it isn't a free country when I'm forced into voting for vanilla over chocolate or not having any ice scream at all. What about mocha-ripple? What about daiquiri ice? And in this grand wide world of incompatible views, it is doubtful two party system would be able to encompass even a portion of those views except for those who support a two party system and those who do not. And those who don't are very much the majority. In that respect, hoping the challenger won't wear the super-sized strap-on that the incumbent does isn't "the ability to make a tough decision"; it's political suicide.

    Truth is both parties would be terribly afraid of a "none of the above" option. It would call bullshit on the entire operation, and then those bribes aren't quite as effective anymore.

    Your vote vs. billions of dollars and the media framing all of the issues for you. Either way, you lose.

  52. They Automatically provide the filter information by rodney+dill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Filter anything containing the candidate names and party names

    --

    Use your head, can't you, use your head,
    You're on earth, there's no cure for that
    - S. Beckett
  53. Re:But you HAVE to vote for one of them... by sk8king · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The only problem I can see with not voting for your given reasons is that you are then indistinguishable from the 50% that didn't vote because they're too lazy or didn't care.

    I've heard of purposely wrecking your ballot. Do they count wrecked ballots officially?

  54. Re:But you HAVE to vote for one of them... by 4of12 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The only vote that you thow away is one where you vote for someone because they could win.

    Sadly, many people vote "for a winner" or because a candidate appears to have "momentum".

    Exhibit A: Democratic primaries in the U.S.

    OTOH, how much comfort do supporters of Nader's Green Party Presidential campaign in 2000 take in their principled stand not to elect Al "Lesser Evil" Gore, especially now that the country has experienced 3 years under Geroge W. Bush?

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."