Slashdot Mirror
Working Around Bad Luck on the Resume?
Dodger asks: "A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped. Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff. Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume. When the companies I interview with ask about that situation I simply explain, while trying not to whine or complain. What do other Slashdot readers do to make 'bad luck' (or bad employer choices) look less bad on their resume, and sound less bad in interviews?"
And during interview tell the truth that you were laid off. People understand the situation
I believe every employer appreciates a bit of honesty.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Lie.
No, really, just be honest like you already have been. The people interviewing you are human too, and they can understand bad luck like anyone else. Just put your best qualities far enough out there and layoffs like this shouldn't even be a factor to the interviewer.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Besides, so what if a project fell flat because someone else pulled the plug? You took a chance on being part of it; sounds like a good resume item to me.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
You won't sound like whining, and trust me, a lot of people here will tell a lot worse horror stories. Probably the people interviewing you have worse horror stories than that. Even I do, and mine aren't nearly that bad.
;)
So, don't sweat it. If they ask tell the truth. It helps if the truth is "well, during my periods of unemployment I have been keeping my skills up to date, and have been working on X projects to keep me busy".
That's it dude, trust me.
Lemure, wtf! Don't you mean Lemur?
It'll be worth it in the end. Just doin't hesitate to tell the truth and when/if you get the job, you'll be far better off. Lying will only make them question you and give them a good reason not to employ you.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
I've had literally three companies go out of business on me, and one company I ethically could not work for (owner was trying to bilk millionaires out of investment cash) in the last 3.5 years. So 3.5 years, 4 companies.
One recruiter I talked to started the conversation saying "I know the job market recently is what's to blame for your spotty employment" and then only ten minutes later said "My client is looking for someone who doesn't jump from job to job so much," so even someone who acknowledges the reason for your problems can very quickly forget it and start thinking you're a job jumper.
So how did I solve this problem? I simply grouped all the jobs I worked for in the past 3.5 years as bullet items under a single 3.5-year job of Database Architect Consultant.
This helps a lot, because consultants are supposed to have multiple employers (it doesn't hurt that I've also done some consulting work during this time).
The problem then is that when you talk to companies, they assume you want to continue consulting. So begin the interview with "I've been doing W-2 consulting, and I really want the stability and long-term relationships I can get with a full-time job."
It's really an interesting perception that people get when they look at a resume with many short-term jobs on it. They just can't get over the fact that it may be completely not your fault and they still somehow blame you.
You need to understand this psychology and then mask that fact from them (for their own good!). Otherwise they will end up hiring some lamer who happened to work for a company that lasted a lot longer than your companies even though said lamer isn't as qualified as you.
fifth sigma, inc.
It sounds like you're doing the right thing.
As a hiring manager in a software company let me tell you, you're situation doesn't look bad, assuming it's exactly as you tell it. If I bring someone in for an interview, and they tell me what you've been through, I'd be more likely to empathize with their situatition rather than hold it against them. So, just tell the truth.
The one thing that might be a problem is getting to the interview. You may need to do a bit of work on your cover letter to make it plain that the funding was cut rather than you losing the job because of cause.
One other thing - you may not want to include a 5 week job on your resume. Unless you gained a lot of important job experience in 5 weeks, I'd be likely to write the entire thing off. Since resume space is limited, you may want to include a former job that is more relevant to the position you are applying to.
... by getting interviews in the first place.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Lying can also give them grounds to fire you at a later date.
One technique that can be applied to many job interviews is to turn the situation around and make them try to sell the job to you. If you have a history of being let go by former employers stress that it's important that your next job be with a stable, successful company and ask pointed questions about the new company. Let them try to convince you that the new company is respectable and trustworthy. Then they'll feel like they've invested something in you by convincing you.
Don't lie, period. Just tell the truth. Employers are looking for hard working, intelligient, and honest people.
Bryan
If the layoffs are not your fault then the employer won't care as long as you are honest regarding the reasons. Don't sound bitter, and above all, DON'T make it sound as though the layoffs were a result of poor management. If pressed for details be very discreet and non-judgemental in the response - a "The company decided that they could no longer provide work for me" sounds MUCH better than "they canned me as soon as they finished using me". I as a manager don't mind seeing a period of unemployment if it is not a result of the person's actions and with the collapse of IT jobs that's unfortunately become common.
***Blackholes are where the gods divided by zero.***
I'd suggest you list the dates as... "10/2003-11/2003 (project cancelled)" to prevent the quick discard. After that, just be honest about your history and show no bitterness.
I've hired over 100 engineers. One short hop (less than 2 or 3 years) requires explaining. Two short hops get the resume tossed.
The fact that you were able to get hired twice in your proffession during the down economy is an asset not a burdon.
The fact that you were moved to CA either means you are desperate or worth a big investment. Make sure it spins good (even if it was desperation).
If the out of work periods are short enough I would take it as a good sign that you are being snapped up, not bad that you were layed off.
Don't lie. If you do anyone that has a personal reason for not liking you could possibly get HR to look into it and you could be fired for lieing on your resume.
Just remember that your against people who were likly under-employed or out of work with no short projects inbetween.
None of this is expierience (except the lieing thing) but it is what maked personal sense to me. So if someoen with actual expierence in your shoes disagrees they may be more correct then me.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Yep I lived in the US for 1 year. I'm just amazed that they've managed to convince 250 million people that working your whole life and resfusing to take your one week off a year vacation for fear thet it might cause you to be passed over for a promotion is a good thing.
It seems to me in the US the priorities between corporate life and "lifestyle" or personal development are all out of whack and that's why even small gaps in your resume are an issue in the US but no big deal in other western countries.
Not true. Here's what you do:
Say that the period of unemployment was actually you being a freelance IT consultant, then add that those brief jobs you got were consulting projects meant to be temporary.
When they ask why you don't want to be a consultant anymore, tell them that the economy is getting better and you feel like it's a good time to get back on the job market.
This will also make you look like you don't HAVE to get the job (although if you did you would certainly commit to it 100%), which rises their perception of you.
Sounds like a sleazy thing to do? well, that's real life for you...
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
I'm ready to tell any interviewer exactly what I've done. There is NOTHING lazy about taking advantage of state benifits. It shows you knew where to look, took some of your tax money back the way it was supposed to be used and cared about your career. In fact, it's lazy and counterproductive to just take anyjob without first looking. It takes worlds of industry to fill out job applications, and cold call. By the time you are finished, everyone in the world should have seen your resume too. Many people will think I'm a pest, but no one can accuse me of being lazy.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
No matter how unfairly you believe you were treated, don't bitch and moan about it.
We had to interview one job applicant who was recently laid off. He went into this long rant about how the management were incompetent, his coworkers were retards, it was all everyone else's fault, he was the second coming of Jesus Christ and everyone was just too stupid to see it, and so on. There was also a mini-version of that same rant in his resume!
This frightening outburst was prompted by a fairly unprovocative question about what he did at his previous job.
We were left in absolutely no doubt as to why he was sacked. Why would you want someone like that around, who casts blame on everyone else at the first opportunity and behind their back when under pressure?
I hire developers and I'd guess about half of the people I interview are out of work. Being laid off is often a matter of luck so that actually doesn't interest me very much. How the candidate has responded to being out of work interests me a lot. It's a chance for me to see how they have responded to a real life problem. What are they doing with their time? Do they still programme for fun? Are they keeping their existing skills honed? What are they learning to give themselves an edge?
An out of work developer who hasn't written any code for nine months is completely different from one who's putting together their own Linux distribution.
L.
Another option is to simply leave off the super-short term stints. In these times, it's not unusual for someone to go several months between positions...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Never forget: the purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. If you got the interview, then you know that there were no fatal flaws on your resume. If there were fatal flaws on the resume, you won't get the interview and, hense, won't be able to explain them away.
P.S. The above was, of couse, in jest... as I too consider myself one of those "whiney, tree-hugging liberals".
P.P.S. I'd sure like to figure out a way to make the word liberal lose its negative connotation...
Say that the period of unemployment was actually you being a freelance IT consultant, then add that those brief jobs you got were consulting projects meant to be temporary.
I wouldn't recommend this unless you have quite a poker face. Job interviewers tend to smell bullshit like shit on a shoe (to paraphrase yet another movie) and often will not press the issue, they'll simply not hire you.
Now, telling the truth haven't quite worked out, I guess, so if you do decide to go with it, make sure you polish your story, iron out details ("Sorry I can't give you names, I had an NDA with my clients") and if possible, ask a friend to "proof" you.
No sig
Forget about dwelling on your interview skills - because you have obviously thought long and hard about how to approach the interview - and the advice simply is; "be honest - but not TOO honest!".
The tricky part is ensuring your application lies in the list of interviews.
Remember, an HR department might see 500+ (or even 5000+ applications!) for some positions and in some locations.
Now - picture yourself as the HR person receiving this applications. 500 cover letters with resumes attached - each one with 8 pages of information. That makes about 4500 pages to read.
Sorry - if your resume/CV is longer than a SINGLE SIDE OF A4 PAPER you most likely will NOT get an interview.
I don't care how many jobs you've had or how freaking successful you are - you need to condense ALL relevant information down to a single page!
You will (of course!) in your covering letter, say something along the lines of:
Four years ago, I was looking for work, and had professional help to get my CV down to a single side of A4 paper - and since that time, I have got interviews for every single position I have applied for. I even got to play three employers off against each other to land my current position. :)
Hope this helps.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
How about just being honest about your experience so I can get the job instead? I've been an out of work techie for several years. My tendency is to be honest, but that route wasn't paying the rent. I talked to some tech friends and they all told me that I had to "stretch" things on my resume if I was ever going to pay the rent again. When you are getting your food from the food pantry because your benefits have run out, being creative on your resume is a fair response to employers who are obsessed with every minute of your past work life. The stuff I've added to my resume does not turn me into some wundertechie that I am not, but it does eliminate employer questions about recent gaps on my resume. It ain't my fault that I got laid off at the start of the IT depression. I'm capable of doing all of the work associated with the positions that I apply for.
It's probable that I could still get interviews if I left the unemployment gap on my resume. My experience and previous employment are solid. But when it comes to *surviving* you have to do what you have to do to make the situation more fair for yourself. If American employers wouldn't be so uptight about employment history and focused more on the actual skills that we have, this thread would be unnecessary.
Good luck finding that job! The employers will treat you like shit during the interview process, so do what you have to do to get the job.
This is bullshit. You're advising someone to lie about a previous job to a potential employer who, if they hire him|her, may do a background check and discover the lies anyway.
I have interviewed job candidates before, and if someone were laid off from a previous job, they aren't fucking alone. It happens, and if an interviewer doesn't understand this they are not living in the real world and perhaps you're better working for someone else. Much better than getting into the habit of telling elaborate lies that will harm you later.
I think it's drawing a long bow to say that long work hours "led to America becoming a global economic, military, and political uberpower in, what, a couple mere centuries." How about:
1. Abundant natural resources.
2. Slavery, followed by cheap immigrant labour.
3. A large population.
4. Good education.
5. Capitalism.
6. A government willing to use its muscle (military and economic) to get its way.
Working your butt off is less important than any of these.
I have used a number of these principles since beying laid off in 2002 for both finding a position with a new company and once there an internal move up the chain.
One intangible that beyond this (or maybe reading between the parent poster's lines): do whatever it takes to prepare yourself for a conversation with your interviewer. Yes, this can be hard in a question-answer-question-answer type format, but figure out how you're going to weave things into a conversation. When you engage your interviewer in a conversation they can better connect with and relate to you. It also helps them visualize what you would be like on the job - most people will want to work with others they can successfully interact and collaborate with.
Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE!
Great advice. Look at it this way -- one of the main things interviewers want to know is how you will react to adversity.
If you whine about the successive layoffs (or lie about them, or rapidly change the subject), they're going to have a pretty clear picture of what you'll do when your project hits a big snag, or the customer comes back with last minute requirements: you're going to whine to everyone (even people you don't know, apparently) and drag down the morale of your team instead of doing anything useful. I guarantee this will leave a bad taste in their mouths after the interview.
Don't get tripped up because it's not an on-the-job problem. This is just as much an opportunity to prove yourself and how you respond to serious problems (the worse the better, to some extent). Take a second to discuss what happened, and what you've been doing to get back into the game. If you were creative, or if you used your downtime to learn something new, all the better. Maybe you got dropped because you were too much of a one-trick pony... so you learned a new language, and wrote a mini webserver to practice. Tell them your plan (and make sure you've put a lot of thought into it). Be frank, crisp, logical, and upbeat.
If you had to take some strange jobs to keep food on the table, that's okay. If you're uncomfortable about it, they will be too... but if you aren't, they'll probably just like you better for being pragmatic.
[And of course, if you've been sitting there in a funk for 6 months, leeching off your girlfriend and watching TV, now's the time to move your ass, kiddo.]
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
Simple.
:p
Lie.
I know, I know, everyone will tell you that that's not a good idea.
You know what?
Screw'em.
My grandpappy told me the most important thing you can remember in an interview:
You can slide furthur on bullshit, than you can on concrete
Come up with something, and sell it. Simple, Direct, to the point.
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
Noone else who worked with me still works there so I can't use them for reference either
Who says you can't use them? My last 3 companies don't even exist. That doesn't mean I don't have any references. Give out the names of those you worked with regardless of whether they still work there. If the prospective employer wants to verify that you actually worked there, they will call HR, not your old boss.
Look, there's no need to apologize for what you've done if you haven't done anything wrong. Projects get cancelled... it's what happens in this line of work. Put down your relevant work experience, including that cancelled project if it's relevant. If/when it comes up in an interview, simply explain that the project was cancelled due to circumstances well beyond your control (assuming that's true) and that you're looking for an employer with somewhat more solid prospects. Tell them flat out that you're looking for an employer with more solid prospects than your last one, and ask them a question or two about the outlook for their business (in a completely interested, polite, and professional way, of course).
Most folks seem to have commented on the resume, but not on the interview, so I'll mention that.
Cutting through all the crap, interviews come down to just three things.
1. Do you want it?
2. Can you do it?
3. Will you fit in?
To re-introduce some of the crap...
1. Do you want it?
An employer wants to be sure you're actually interested and willing to commit to the company.
2. Can you do it?
They need to know that you are capable of doing the job they have in mind. Note that the job spec and the real job are two different things, so part of the interview process is where you help them by explaining what they're looking for (i.e. describe the job in terms of your skills and experience).
3. Will you fit in?
This is THE important one... bear in mind that assuming they've gone to the expense of getting you in for an interview you've pretty much convinced them of 1 and 2 already.
In the long term, your integration will affect your motivation to stay, your capability to do the work, and you'll also affect these factors in the other employees.
So, if the interviewer doesn't like who you appear to be, you can pretty much forget it.
However, if you've had some bum luck with employers, it just doesn't matter. If you're pissed offdisappointed because of your redundancy, it's OK to show it: it illustrates that you'd committed to a job but the management, or the board, or the economy, or an infinite number of factors outside of your control screwed things up for you; and yet, you're still fighting, covered in crap and smelling terrible, but you've not given up.
Now *that*, for an employer is a jigsaw-completing quality - determination and spirit are invaluable. Show this at an interview and your redundancy just got you your next job.
boakes.org
I can telly you from sitting on the employer side of the interview table that 99% of candidates have had bad luck. If they had good luck, they would not be looking for a job at age 45! Most interviewers know this and so they are trying to sort out the good people from the people that have bad luck for a reason. As you seek your job:
* Remember that everyone else has had bad luck!
* Figure out how to stand out from the other hard luck cases. Highlight your involvement in the community or using your time to help your family.
* Practice your story and make sure you accentuate the positive - what you got to do, etc. Be good an answering the hard questions.
* GET REFERENCES FROM THOSE SHORT TERM EMPLOYERS!
In the end, getting a job is easy:
* Have passable resume
* Get interview
* BE ON TIME AND LOOK GOOD!
* Sell yourself and don't game people by lying or embellishing the truth
* ASK FOR THE JOB!
* FOLLOW UP!
* Did I mention, FOLLOW UP!
-- $G
Your "logic" has massive holes in it. For starters, a gap in employment tells you nothing at all about the person, the circumstances of their leaving the position, their suitability to work where you work...
I will be excited to see you tell me where I said that.
you sound exactly like the sorts of HR weenies that are making a mess of companies large and small
Bzzzzt! Wrong. But thanks for playing.
I'm a programmer, hiring other programmers. Like most, I have gaps in my resume; some are vacations, some aren't. When I see gaps, I may ask people about them. I'm hiring in an area that was strongly affected by the boom, so it's no black mark to say, "Yeah, my startup went bust and it's been ugly out there."
What I object to is people trying to hide things from me, either in an interview or a resume. I've certainly interview people with the year-only resumes, but I've quizzed them much more closely on both dates and on the rest of their stuff. I like it better when they're honest up front, both on gaps and on everything else.
After being in the workforce for almost 10 years, I found a lot of position with wrong job requirements. One job that I actually applied for stated flat out that you need to be a certified Novel engineer. I was pretty surprised that I got a call back since I had zero experience with Novel. I was even more surprised that I was hired for the position and that the company didn't even have a single Novel box in the building. It turns out that some clueless HR Drone padded up the wanted add with industry buzzwords. So don't be afraid to apply for a position even if you don't qualify for every listed req.
A bit cynical, but there's quite a bit of truth here. Another thing I've noticed is that if the software you write doesn't have enough bugs, managers will think you weren't working, or that the work you did was trivial. The guy who has lots of bugs, and makes a big show of fixing them, will end up being much more highly-rated.
That said, my usually successful strategy is to churn out features extremely quickly, and to make sure people know about them. I'm liable to leave holes in the code, but I try to do good design. So when people find problems, I can usually impress them by fixing them almost immediately.
Frankly, after about ten years experience very few companies want to hire you. Reasons:
1. They think you're too expensive
2. They think you will be a hard-ass
3. They think they can't control you, because you have been around the block and know the corporate bullshit. Which is true.
4. You are no longer idealistic and won't work OT much
5. You are smarter than the hiring manager, and he knows it
6. Your name is to easy to pronounce
7. If you were laid off and couldn't find a job in this crappy economy, then you must be really bad person.
8. Old people (over 40 maybe 35 these days) are lucky they are allowed to breathe.
9. You'll be bored.
10. Corporate medical insurance premiums raise drasticly with more older workers. (VERY TRUE AND COMPANIES HIRE BASED ON IT)
I'm an employer. Honesty matters. You've done nothing to be ashamed of. Tell the truth. If you get caught in anything less than the total truth, then you probably won't be trusted ever again - despite any *good* explanation you have for your previous prevarication.