Slashdot Mirror
Working Around Bad Luck on the Resume?
Dodger asks: "A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped. Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff. Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume. When the companies I interview with ask about that situation I simply explain, while trying not to whine or complain. What do other Slashdot readers do to make 'bad luck' (or bad employer choices) look less bad on their resume, and sound less bad in interviews?"
If the person interviewing you is a white coder who reads Slashdot tell them your job was outsourced.
If anyone knew, they would probably be working rather than reading slashdot.
And during interview tell the truth that you were laid off. People understand the situation
I believe every employer appreciates a bit of honesty.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Lie.
No, really, just be honest like you already have been. The people interviewing you are human too, and they can understand bad luck like anyone else. Just put your best qualities far enough out there and layoffs like this shouldn't even be a factor to the interviewer.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
When they ask questions of prior jobs that were unsatisfactory, simply yell "That's none of your concern, you insensative clod!"
Setec Astronomy
Just tell the interviewer that "shit happens". They'll understand. Worked for me!
but be positive ... Don't whine or pout. Just explain the situation, highlight any positives and then try to steer the focus back on the better parts of your resume.
...to bond with my fellow inmates.
You shouldn't just be sit around while you are unemployed. You should always be keeping your skills polished and up-to-date. Then you will have something to tell them. It is best if you can account for all of your time while unemployed.
Step #1:
;)
Get a job. ANY JOB. Showing you have a job indicates that you are a "go getter", willing to do what it takes. Trust me.
Step #2:
Hit the Pavement. When a job in your field opens up, even if it is a step down from your current pay grade, take it.
Step #3:
If your field is networking, start doing networks for churches/schools/etc. for free. Include it on your resume. If coding, get into an open source project. If business or law, go to hell.
Those will drastically help you reinforce the idea that you are not lazy, just unfortunate.
Besides, so what if a project fell flat because someone else pulled the plug? You took a chance on being part of it; sounds like a good resume item to me.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
You weren't dismissed in spite of your project successfully shipping. You were disposed of because your project shipped. It's not uncommmon where moronic managers treat developers like construction crews. Hire when the work picks up and let go when the work is done. Most managers are too dim to understand the difference between skilled and unskilled labour.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
...that you got fired for looking at goatse at work
Reminds me of a funny Dogbert strip:
Always put impressive but impossible to verify jobs on your resume.
Employer: So Mr. Dogbert, it says here that you worked as a senior spy for the CIA.
Dogbert: Yes, and I was told to kill anyone who asks for details about it.
You won't sound like whining, and trust me, a lot of people here will tell a lot worse horror stories. Probably the people interviewing you have worse horror stories than that. Even I do, and mine aren't nearly that bad.
;)
So, don't sweat it. If they ask tell the truth. It helps if the truth is "well, during my periods of unemployment I have been keeping my skills up to date, and have been working on X projects to keep me busy".
That's it dude, trust me.
Lemure, wtf! Don't you mean Lemur?
With your "knowledge" of 50 programming languages and dozen operating systems, not to mention your ability to network 60 Xbox's, which ironically, are their prerequisites anyways. :p
Employers want to know how to get hold of your previous management, too, and pointing out that they're also not there any more tends to help.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
A lot of people have had jobs that they don't talk about. Pick one or two jobs that have you had good references from put them on. Then say that you were studying in the gaps.
If your referees can confirm you have the skills required for the job, you'll have a solid chance.
It'll be worth it in the end. Just doin't hesitate to tell the truth and when/if you get the job, you'll be far better off. Lying will only make them question you and give them a good reason not to employ you.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
From plausible to absurd:
I was spending time with my family
Extended vacation
Self-education/Wanted to learn something new
I was writing a book
Home renovation/improvment
Spiritual retreat in the desert
Creating and failing with dot-com startup
Using exfoliation to remove tattoo
Hunted down Steve Bartman to "express my feelings"
Take your pick.
I've had literally three companies go out of business on me, and one company I ethically could not work for (owner was trying to bilk millionaires out of investment cash) in the last 3.5 years. So 3.5 years, 4 companies.
One recruiter I talked to started the conversation saying "I know the job market recently is what's to blame for your spotty employment" and then only ten minutes later said "My client is looking for someone who doesn't jump from job to job so much," so even someone who acknowledges the reason for your problems can very quickly forget it and start thinking you're a job jumper.
So how did I solve this problem? I simply grouped all the jobs I worked for in the past 3.5 years as bullet items under a single 3.5-year job of Database Architect Consultant.
This helps a lot, because consultants are supposed to have multiple employers (it doesn't hurt that I've also done some consulting work during this time).
The problem then is that when you talk to companies, they assume you want to continue consulting. So begin the interview with "I've been doing W-2 consulting, and I really want the stability and long-term relationships I can get with a full-time job."
It's really an interesting perception that people get when they look at a resume with many short-term jobs on it. They just can't get over the fact that it may be completely not your fault and they still somehow blame you.
You need to understand this psychology and then mask that fact from them (for their own good!). Otherwise they will end up hiring some lamer who happened to work for a company that lasted a lot longer than your companies even though said lamer isn't as qualified as you.
fifth sigma, inc.
It sounds like you're doing the right thing.
As a hiring manager in a software company let me tell you, you're situation doesn't look bad, assuming it's exactly as you tell it. If I bring someone in for an interview, and they tell me what you've been through, I'd be more likely to empathize with their situatition rather than hold it against them. So, just tell the truth.
The one thing that might be a problem is getting to the interview. You may need to do a bit of work on your cover letter to make it plain that the funding was cut rather than you losing the job because of cause.
One other thing - you may not want to include a 5 week job on your resume. Unless you gained a lot of important job experience in 5 weeks, I'd be likely to write the entire thing off. Since resume space is limited, you may want to include a former job that is more relevant to the position you are applying to.
... by getting interviews in the first place.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
I don't understand why in the US it is such an issue with having a gap in your resume? When I was 25 I quit my job in Australia and spent a full year travelling, living off my savings going through Asia/India/Europe. I told this to people from the US and they were horrified? How will you explain this to employers, they said? I tell them the truth, I decided to take a year off and travel.
Here in Australia this is quite common and perfectly acceptable, also in europe it's no big deal many people over there do this.
So if I lived in the US and I say I decided I didn't want to work because I had saved enough money to live on and I wanted to travel/write the american novel/sit at home and play video games/whatever, exactly why should an employer care?
Same applies for periods of unemployment, why does a gap matter?
Tell them you had to take an extended leave of absence due to a death in your family. If they try to verify this, kill a family member.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
The best thing to do would to simply explain to them that the man's trying to hold you down. Also, that you'll program for food.
Photo Aspect -- an open, free, J2EE & JBoss photoalbu
... just tell them, " I'm glad you brought this up, and even happier you read /., because they actually posted my submission on this very topic and an hour later I had excellent karma "
-- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous
Lying can also give them grounds to fire you at a later date.
One technique that can be applied to many job interviews is to turn the situation around and make them try to sell the job to you. If you have a history of being let go by former employers stress that it's important that your next job be with a stable, successful company and ask pointed questions about the new company. Let them try to convince you that the new company is respectable and trustworthy. Then they'll feel like they've invested something in you by convincing you.
Don't lie, period. Just tell the truth. Employers are looking for hard working, intelligient, and honest people.
Bryan
If the layoffs are not your fault then the employer won't care as long as you are honest regarding the reasons. Don't sound bitter, and above all, DON'T make it sound as though the layoffs were a result of poor management. If pressed for details be very discreet and non-judgemental in the response - a "The company decided that they could no longer provide work for me" sounds MUCH better than "they canned me as soon as they finished using me". I as a manager don't mind seeing a period of unemployment if it is not a result of the person's actions and with the collapse of IT jobs that's unfortunately become common.
***Blackholes are where the gods divided by zero.***
I'd suggest you list the dates as... "10/2003-11/2003 (project cancelled)" to prevent the quick discard. After that, just be honest about your history and show no bitterness.
I've hired over 100 engineers. One short hop (less than 2 or 3 years) requires explaining. Two short hops get the resume tossed.
The fact that you were able to get hired twice in your proffession during the down economy is an asset not a burdon.
The fact that you were moved to CA either means you are desperate or worth a big investment. Make sure it spins good (even if it was desperation).
If the out of work periods are short enough I would take it as a good sign that you are being snapped up, not bad that you were layed off.
Don't lie. If you do anyone that has a personal reason for not liking you could possibly get HR to look into it and you could be fired for lieing on your resume.
Just remember that your against people who were likly under-employed or out of work with no short projects inbetween.
None of this is expierience (except the lieing thing) but it is what maked personal sense to me. So if someoen with actual expierence in your shoes disagrees they may be more correct then me.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Yah i know, could you talk to her about that?
Depends on where you are in life but..
When the layoff started happening I must have gone through about 4 companies in 3 years. (Silicon valley, it was nuts here!) It even got to the point where I could "smell" when a layoff was going to occur for anyone. Sort of like how one minute all the zebra's are munchin grass, and the next minute, before the lion goes into chase mode, they all look at that one and say, "He's next to go!"
I got so sick of blurring my resume, lying, filling in the blanks, stretching out employment dates, overstating my job and depending on someone else for a paycheck that the last layoff was the last straw. I flipped my middle finger in the direction of all these guys "charging" me for doing my W-2 while they loaned themselves a mountain of company money to buy themselves a house while saying "Hey taxman, this isn't personal income, this is a "LOAN" from the company to me, haha on you"
So I started my own company. No big deal. Just go down to your city office, pay your business tax, and if you want a corporation (I went LLC) just have an agent like thecompanycompany.com fill out your paperwork with the state for about $800.
You know what you do for a living now right? Why not just offer it up to the general public with a real company. Call your old boss up and tell him you've started your own deal, and if he knows anyone looking for help. Chances are he'll hire you or pass your name around.
There was this other slashdot article a while back about going on your own. I recomend searching the archives for it.
"Just falsify it! Every other bastard does..."
Not a smart idea. I was reading on CNN the other day that Yahoo's got a "see your background" service going up soon. (Hotjobs or something?) Evidently, there are web services out there where a potential employer can look you up and verify where you've worked etc. If that doesn't sync up with what you say in the interview/resume, then a lever is pulled and you fall through a trap door. Yahoo's service is meant to provide somebody with a means of seeing what's on their record (For a modest price...) and get it rectified if it's wrong.
Lying in the digital age is a bad idea.
"Derp de derp."
Yep I lived in the US for 1 year. I'm just amazed that they've managed to convince 250 million people that working your whole life and resfusing to take your one week off a year vacation for fear thet it might cause you to be passed over for a promotion is a good thing.
It seems to me in the US the priorities between corporate life and "lifestyle" or personal development are all out of whack and that's why even small gaps in your resume are an issue in the US but no big deal in other western countries.
Almost every unemployed techie these days got that way not because it was our own fault, but just like the examples above, projects get canceled or things or we were on a project that look good on the drawing board but didn't work in practice. The fact that our ex-employers weren't able to show to the state that the breakup was our fault so that we'd be denied unemployment pay is proof enough that it wasn't our fault.
In fact, I've actually got a copy of state unemployment form that assigns a letter code for just about every reason you can think about for letting somebody go... and my ex-employer selected "U" for "Unknown". (Chosing not to disclose the reason would have been an "N" for "No contest".) If my ex-employer's HR department can't even figure out the reason that I was let go, that's a sign that we've got a long story here.
My answer for why they can't speak to my immediate supervisor at my past job? "I have no idea where he is. From what I was told as I was leaving, it didn't seem like he was going to have the option of staying with them for much longer either. The rest of managers at the company were happy with the level of service I was providing their departments. Letting me go was not the only debatable business decision from him that his higher-ups were scratching their heads about. I've got the number for the HR exec there on the resume, he can confirm what I just told you."
just write your posts in pseudo code and maybe they will be perplexed, yet comforted that you are familiar enough with programming that it is your perferred method of communicating.
;)
Wait. Did I say post? I meant interview. Sorry about that
I'm ready to tell any interviewer exactly what I've done. There is NOTHING lazy about taking advantage of state benifits. It shows you knew where to look, took some of your tax money back the way it was supposed to be used and cared about your career. In fact, it's lazy and counterproductive to just take anyjob without first looking. It takes worlds of industry to fill out job applications, and cold call. By the time you are finished, everyone in the world should have seen your resume too. Many people will think I'm a pest, but no one can accuse me of being lazy.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
As someone currently hiring 4 positions, I can offer you this...
Be honest (about downtime in your case especially)
Don't exaggerate your achievements
Stay calm, don't bounce around in your chair
Appear interested and "aware"
Don't say "yeah" or "ok" after every sentence the interviewer says
Smile
Also, I know the IT scene is tough right now, but from the interviewer's perspective, it's hard finding good people too. We typically hire 2 to 4 IT staff each year, and finding good ones is a chore. I wish I had a dollar for every DBA interview candidate I've talked to that couldn't write a simple select statement when asked to. Bear in mind, their resume statement that they were "SQL Experts", or had x years of experience with SQL Server (yes, we're a Microsoft shop).
My Tech Posts on Twitter
No matter how unfairly you believe you were treated, don't bitch and moan about it.
We had to interview one job applicant who was recently laid off. He went into this long rant about how the management were incompetent, his coworkers were retards, it was all everyone else's fault, he was the second coming of Jesus Christ and everyone was just too stupid to see it, and so on. There was also a mini-version of that same rant in his resume!
This frightening outburst was prompted by a fairly unprovocative question about what he did at his previous job.
We were left in absolutely no doubt as to why he was sacked. Why would you want someone like that around, who casts blame on everyone else at the first opportunity and behind their back when under pressure?
I hire developers and I'd guess about half of the people I interview are out of work. Being laid off is often a matter of luck so that actually doesn't interest me very much. How the candidate has responded to being out of work interests me a lot. It's a chance for me to see how they have responded to a real life problem. What are they doing with their time? Do they still programme for fun? Are they keeping their existing skills honed? What are they learning to give themselves an edge?
An out of work developer who hasn't written any code for nine months is completely different from one who's putting together their own Linux distribution.
L.
I'd omit anything that is difficult to explain from your resume. In fact, instructor for the resume writing class I went to advised me not to include a job history going back more than 10-15 years, since it leads to age discrimination (yes, this means you need to omit your graduation date as well). Managers are only going to glance at your resume for 20-30 seconds, just looking for any reason to reject it. Don't give them a reason. Also, it is a good idea to rewrite your resume to show your qualifications for each individual job you're applying to. Not that I'd advise you to lie, but you need to emphasize the applicable skills and experience, and omit the inapplicable ones.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Make a point of always being in school or some sort of formal training. If you have a bad lapse of employment you can simply drop the employment and document the time as furthering your education or expanding your skills in school.
This also has the added benefit that it really does further your education and expand your skills.
One last point. Being in school does not imply you have to be the student. A lot of technical colleges need adjunct instructors to teach a few evening and weekend courses. Putting on your resume that you taught impresses far too many people but it works.
One from your family or the interviewer's?
I guess it would work either way...
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
It's due to what some consider the extreme American "work ethic." Here, you are expected to work hard, all the time, preferably six or seven days a week, until you "retire" (more and more people now work during "retirement"). While this makes having "a life" difficult, it is what led to America becoming a global economic, military, and political uberpower in, what, a couple mere centuries. Old habits die hard. It is why you are lucky to get two paid weeks of vacation here, vs. six or more in some European nations.
This expected work ethic is not compatible with taking extended breaks. Being out of work is one thing... being voluntarily out of work is often seen as laziness.
On the other hand, of course, such a work ethic is, generally, a common trait of all really successful people, regardless of nationality or where they live. I guess in America, most businesses want to hire people who have the drive to be successful in life. I just wish they would accept that sometimes, success oriented people also want to pause and smell the rose.
Larry
Very simple reason. During that "gap" you might have had a job and make a complete pig's breakfast out of it. By accounting for all your time, your prospective employer has a chance to track down all your past employers and find out if you screwed up in a major way. If you have gaps all over the place, you may have just included those jobs where you didn't screw up, and left out the ones where you bankrupted the company by doing something monumentally stupid. Or you might have been in jail, rehab, or something equally unappealing to a prospective employer. So if you do choose to bum around Europe for a year, be damn sure to keep hotel and travel receipts!
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Gap years are for before going to university. I assure you that gaps at other stages of your career, are not very accepted in the UK. Weirdly enough I ended up having to come to the US, where at least they'll occasionally accept that sometimes good people end up unemployed. I've found the UK completely intolerant - if you don't have a job, you can't get a job, simple as that.
Never forget: the purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. If you got the interview, then you know that there were no fatal flaws on your resume. If there were fatal flaws on the resume, you won't get the interview and, hense, won't be able to explain them away.
P.S. The above was, of couse, in jest... as I too consider myself one of those "whiney, tree-hugging liberals".
P.P.S. I'd sure like to figure out a way to make the word liberal lose its negative connotation...
Work now for tomorrow you may die! To hell with actually having a life! Ok, I'm a little bitter after working my ass off to only get laid-off.
There is no spoon or sig.
Forget about dwelling on your interview skills - because you have obviously thought long and hard about how to approach the interview - and the advice simply is; "be honest - but not TOO honest!".
The tricky part is ensuring your application lies in the list of interviews.
Remember, an HR department might see 500+ (or even 5000+ applications!) for some positions and in some locations.
Now - picture yourself as the HR person receiving this applications. 500 cover letters with resumes attached - each one with 8 pages of information. That makes about 4500 pages to read.
Sorry - if your resume/CV is longer than a SINGLE SIDE OF A4 PAPER you most likely will NOT get an interview.
I don't care how many jobs you've had or how freaking successful you are - you need to condense ALL relevant information down to a single page!
You will (of course!) in your covering letter, say something along the lines of:
Four years ago, I was looking for work, and had professional help to get my CV down to a single side of A4 paper - and since that time, I have got interviews for every single position I have applied for. I even got to play three employers off against each other to land my current position. :)
Hope this helps.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
How about just being honest about your experience so I can get the job instead? I've been an out of work techie for several years. My tendency is to be honest, but that route wasn't paying the rent. I talked to some tech friends and they all told me that I had to "stretch" things on my resume if I was ever going to pay the rent again. When you are getting your food from the food pantry because your benefits have run out, being creative on your resume is a fair response to employers who are obsessed with every minute of your past work life. The stuff I've added to my resume does not turn me into some wundertechie that I am not, but it does eliminate employer questions about recent gaps on my resume. It ain't my fault that I got laid off at the start of the IT depression. I'm capable of doing all of the work associated with the positions that I apply for.
It's probable that I could still get interviews if I left the unemployment gap on my resume. My experience and previous employment are solid. But when it comes to *surviving* you have to do what you have to do to make the situation more fair for yourself. If American employers wouldn't be so uptight about employment history and focused more on the actual skills that we have, this thread would be unnecessary.
Good luck finding that job! The employers will treat you like shit during the interview process, so do what you have to do to get the job.
If you can project those three items, you have the best shot you will ever get at nailing the job.
I was asked in a whirl-wind style interview, literally "So I don't exactly understand why we are interviewing you. Your degree doesn't match the job openings". I then sincerely explained that, while my background is a dual degree in Chemistry/Chemical engineering, I've done imaging science the entire period of my employment. Threw in a few stories about projects I'd worked on, (You do have your "Problem, Action, Quantified Results" stories in your head, don't you???) and he accepted it.
Another asked about the layoffs and specifically why I was targetd. You *know* they are going to want to ask that question- be prepared to handle it. Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE! Remember that. Explain it as "We were told that seniority would count significantly during the layoff process. As I had just entered the group a year (or your case, 5 weeks) ago, when they pulled the project funding I was the newest, hence the least 'points' awarded during the deselection criteria"
Don't sound bitter- we all know you will be from the stories, and hearing 'laid off' doesn't have the stigma it once does. But dont' hide it in BS. If you present even a slightest bit, or get caught in a lie, you can kiss it goodbye. I've interviewed many a person and that is the one thing I listen for... I hear BS, you can use the resume to whipe it off the shoe.
If you went back to work for just a short while, I'd feel free to just not mention that job, and just lump that in with the period before and after, when you were "consulting". You could mention it as an example of "projects" you did while you were otherwise-out-of-work, to demonstrate that you weren't just sitting on your ass, but being a self-motivated pro-active kinda guy.
Just a random bit of advice for anyone who (like me) was singled out to be gotten rid of (for personal illegal-in-several-states reasons, for what it's worth): find a way to "launder" your resume without actually lying (which would be just plain stucking fupid). For example, go back to school, and pick up another degree or something. (If you have no income, financial aid is often available.) Sign up for the Peace Corps or something. Then put that on a chronological resume and employers may just assume you did it on purpose.
This is bullshit. You're advising someone to lie about a previous job to a potential employer who, if they hire him|her, may do a background check and discover the lies anyway.
I have interviewed job candidates before, and if someone were laid off from a previous job, they aren't fucking alone. It happens, and if an interviewer doesn't understand this they are not living in the real world and perhaps you're better working for someone else. Much better than getting into the habit of telling elaborate lies that will harm you later.
Another good thing to have is a real estate license. It can cover any gaps in your resumes by saying, "I worked a project for a commercial customer." They can't press you for details because that's confidential and they can't prove or disprove it. If they do want details you can be vague and say, "Their financing fell through." Which happens all the time. Best have a genuine real estate license, though. That can be expensive to get and costs money to maintain. But I find it very liberating to always have a fall back.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
That will leave more jobs for the rest of us!
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
The purpose of the resume and cover letter is just to get you the interview.
Really this will only matter in cases where HR has such a mountain of resumes they're screening by any criteria they can think of (e.g. "This guy drinks Dr. Pepper and our machines only have Coke.") In this case your chances of getting to the all important interview are nearly nil anyway.
Your best bet is to network -- talk to friends and friend of friends, about places that might be considering hiring in the future.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I think it's drawing a long bow to say that long work hours "led to America becoming a global economic, military, and political uberpower in, what, a couple mere centuries." How about:
1. Abundant natural resources.
2. Slavery, followed by cheap immigrant labour.
3. A large population.
4. Good education.
5. Capitalism.
6. A government willing to use its muscle (military and economic) to get its way.
Working your butt off is less important than any of these.
A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped.
Took a sabbatical after successfully shipping the product.
Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff.
Helped guide a failed project to a close with minimal loss to the company.
Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume.
Took time to improve skills and consider various job opportunities.
I have used a number of these principles since beying laid off in 2002 for both finding a position with a new company and once there an internal move up the chain.
One intangible that beyond this (or maybe reading between the parent poster's lines): do whatever it takes to prepare yourself for a conversation with your interviewer. Yes, this can be hard in a question-answer-question-answer type format, but figure out how you're going to weave things into a conversation. When you engage your interviewer in a conversation they can better connect with and relate to you. It also helps them visualize what you would be like on the job - most people will want to work with others they can successfully interact and collaborate with.
Way back in the early 80's, when I was a naive little dork I let a headhunter talk me into leaving a pretty good job at Motorola for a smaller company that was growing by leaps and bounds. One thing lead to another, and three months and nine days later I was laid off, the first of ten engineers let go because the company had grown too quickly.
So I went job hunting, and it was pretty unpleasant, but eventually I found myself across the table from a guy who was hiring for a small project, and I explained that I'd been laid off. I told him I thought I'd done a great job, worked hard and helped the team, but they'd still gotten rid of me. (They went on to lay off nine more of the twelve new hires. Oops.)
It turned out he'd had the same thing done to him, and he totally sympathized with me. He saw one resume for a mechanical engineer, half a dozen for electrical engineers and several dozen for software engineers -- the position I applied for. I got the job.
So maybe it was a blessing in disguise -- I dunno -- I never want to get laid off like that again. But that job was probably the best project I worked on, because we were given a clear goal, given money to do it, and we were left alone. We produced a working eletromechanical system in 7 1/2 months, complete with high voltage system, robotic controllers and control software running on an IBM PC and an onboard 6809 processor. Sweet.
So don't sweat it -- you worked hard, you did a good job, then someone else pulled the plug. That's not your fault. Just don't sound too bitter when you tell the story -- be a little detached. Good luck.
Instead of compiling a resume, follow the advice of Ask the Headhunter's Nick Corcadilos and create a working resume: win the job by doing the job. Check out that website for the best job hunting advice I have ever seen. Read everything you can from the site, and get his book as well. He also produces an excellent weekly newsletter by email.
Best advice ever about how to stand out from the crowd, bypass the resume/job listing sinkhole and get directly to a manager who wants to hire you.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Just say that you completed the job. That is exactly what you did - you worked until the project was finished, it just wasn't shipped. If they check with your company, and you were laid off, then that is exactly what they will say - since, technically, you completed the job.
If you studied anything in the meantime, I would suggest that you say that you were increasing your job skills, and state what skills you were trying to increase.
Above all, be confident and focused. One thing that helps is to use the male "I'm interested and listening" pose - head forward, pointed at the person speaking, making eye contact. It helps if you enter the interview with the attitude that the interviewer is partnered with you in the effort to get you hired - that way you'll ask the right questions like "What do I need to show you so that you will know that I am the right candidate for the job" and "Here is how my previous experience and knowledge applies to the position you will be hiring me for".
If you find that there is no way that you can fulfill the job, ask for the interviewer's card if you know of someone who could fill it. This will give you good will with the company, and with the person you recommend. It will also give you at least one inside contact, and allow the interviewer to know that you are professional and you won't attempt to dent their car in the parking lot. (Don't laugh - I've worked next to some people who carried loaded weapons and threatened to kill their co-workers).
Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE!
Great advice. Look at it this way -- one of the main things interviewers want to know is how you will react to adversity.
If you whine about the successive layoffs (or lie about them, or rapidly change the subject), they're going to have a pretty clear picture of what you'll do when your project hits a big snag, or the customer comes back with last minute requirements: you're going to whine to everyone (even people you don't know, apparently) and drag down the morale of your team instead of doing anything useful. I guarantee this will leave a bad taste in their mouths after the interview.
Don't get tripped up because it's not an on-the-job problem. This is just as much an opportunity to prove yourself and how you respond to serious problems (the worse the better, to some extent). Take a second to discuss what happened, and what you've been doing to get back into the game. If you were creative, or if you used your downtime to learn something new, all the better. Maybe you got dropped because you were too much of a one-trick pony... so you learned a new language, and wrote a mini webserver to practice. Tell them your plan (and make sure you've put a lot of thought into it). Be frank, crisp, logical, and upbeat.
If you had to take some strange jobs to keep food on the table, that's okay. If you're uncomfortable about it, they will be too... but if you aren't, they'll probably just like you better for being pragmatic.
[And of course, if you've been sitting there in a funk for 6 months, leeching off your girlfriend and watching TV, now's the time to move your ass, kiddo.]
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
There's truth in this. I went to work for Airline X and did somthing similar. My employment- while not bad -was heavily fragmented, so I felt the need to stetch the truth in some areas. It was almost a potential costly mistake as they had hired an independent firm to do background checks which found found the inconsistancies rather easily, though it took them nearly 8 weeks to start asking questions. The only way I managed to get out of that mess was to continuely put off their inquiries. While it did finally come to head, enough time had passed with enough problems in the process for the employer to finally just let go.
In otherwords, I got lucky. Of course it didn't help that I was applying for a terrorist targeted industry (doh!), but if they can do it, so can your potential employer. Employ the parents tactics with due caution, if at all.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I read a lot of resume's, and this sort of stuff is very common...particularly during the dotcom boom/bust. I really don't pay attention to the history so much any more (as job loyalty and employer stability has been blurred with other less fortunate outcomes) and I really focus on someones character, attributes, and contributions.
These things all promote your experience and talk a lot more about someone than what an employer can reasonably gather from the employment history.
Goals are deceptive - the unaimed arrow never misses.
Noone else who worked with me still works there so I can't use them for reference either
Who says you can't use them? My last 3 companies don't even exist. That doesn't mean I don't have any references. Give out the names of those you worked with regardless of whether they still work there. If the prospective employer wants to verify that you actually worked there, they will call HR, not your old boss.
"During the interview, have many, many questions." Very important. Have a list of questions ready. "How do you prioritize between social skills and technical skills when you hire someone?". "How is the company doing?". "What sorts of pension funds and health insurance do you offer to your employees?". "Do the employees socialize outside job functions?". That sorta thing.
This will look good to the potential employer - you are prepared, and you are also signalling that you are interested in finding a company that is right for you. It is also good for you, since you can often tell from the reply whether this is a good employer or not.
Stop the brainwash
Look, there's no need to apologize for what you've done if you haven't done anything wrong. Projects get cancelled... it's what happens in this line of work. Put down your relevant work experience, including that cancelled project if it's relevant. If/when it comes up in an interview, simply explain that the project was cancelled due to circumstances well beyond your control (assuming that's true) and that you're looking for an employer with somewhat more solid prospects. Tell them flat out that you're looking for an employer with more solid prospects than your last one, and ask them a question or two about the outlook for their business (in a completely interested, polite, and professional way, of course).
It's part of life. Either you're going to succeed or you won't. Either they're going to extend a job offer to you or not. Honestly, I think the decisions are made long before you even walk in the door.
I've tried everything. I've tried tailored resumes. I've tried semi-tailored resumes. I've tried generic resumes. I've tried sending out to hundreds of companies. I've tried sending out to a large set of specialized companies (a few years later). I've tried applying only to a particular class of position (most recently). I've tried being gently honest. I've tried being brutally honest. I've tried sweeping the unpleasantries under the rug. I've tried ignoring the fact that unpleasantries exist. I've tried being casually conversational. I've tried being strictly businesslike. I've tried a gentle mix of the two. I've tried the dedicated employee approach. I've tried the all-around human being looking for a life approach.
I think you get the point.
Honestly I really feel that, whatever the laws are (like, really, what are you going to do about it? hire a lawyer? if you're looking for a job you can't afford a lawyer), corporate human resource departments do all of their checking, cross-checking, contacting, counter interviewing, and astrological spreads the moment they see your resume. Once that piece of paper is in their hands they call anyone and everyone that they can.
Here's a tip: Human resource departments have national databases just like any other department or industry. It may be brutal but employees are a commodity. I wouldn't be surprised if, at a given level and in some form, employees are traded around like stocks and bonds. One could set up a system of brokers and distributers. Sometimes a broker will land a job for a known bad employee just to ship a block of more profitable employees someplace else.
So just be yourself. Show up at the interview prepared with the properly evasive answers. They ask what happened at the last job you look them straight in the eye, nonchalantly, and say "It didn't work out." No more, no less. The interviewer will try to stare you down. Stare back. Don't stare back antagonistically. Stare back like he could tell you to die on the spot and you wouldn't give a good g--d--n. Blink once or twice, about 15-20 seconds apart. If he presses the issue you need to have several properly evasive answers ready. Keep them at one line each to let him know that he's not going to get anywhere with the topic AND that he's not going to provoke an emotional response from you. Prove to them that you're willing to leave it all in the past and move forward.
So don't sweat it. If your last employer screwed you over big-time (*ahem* 46607 L460r4+0r|3s), you're broke, $50k in debt, homeless, and spent the last 3 months camping in the Yukon for lack of any better ideas, that's just the way life goes. I've been there. Financially, I'm still there. I have an employer again (finally) and if they piss me off, bust my balls, or if I don't meet their corporate standards then I have no problems walking down the highway with my thumb out again. That's the attitude you need to keep because, if you don't, you're going to spend the rest of your life jumping from one small company to the next where the CEO sees you as nothing more than a sack of meat to put his next product on the market. He gets fat, you get the shaft, and the next HR rep you interview with browbeats you with what you don't know.
Sometimes that's just the way life goes.
Steven
+++ATHZ
+++ATHZ 99:5:80
Most folks seem to have commented on the resume, but not on the interview, so I'll mention that.
Cutting through all the crap, interviews come down to just three things.
1. Do you want it?
2. Can you do it?
3. Will you fit in?
To re-introduce some of the crap...
1. Do you want it?
An employer wants to be sure you're actually interested and willing to commit to the company.
2. Can you do it?
They need to know that you are capable of doing the job they have in mind. Note that the job spec and the real job are two different things, so part of the interview process is where you help them by explaining what they're looking for (i.e. describe the job in terms of your skills and experience).
3. Will you fit in?
This is THE important one... bear in mind that assuming they've gone to the expense of getting you in for an interview you've pretty much convinced them of 1 and 2 already.
In the long term, your integration will affect your motivation to stay, your capability to do the work, and you'll also affect these factors in the other employees.
So, if the interviewer doesn't like who you appear to be, you can pretty much forget it.
However, if you've had some bum luck with employers, it just doesn't matter. If you're pissed offdisappointed because of your redundancy, it's OK to show it: it illustrates that you'd committed to a job but the management, or the board, or the economy, or an infinite number of factors outside of your control screwed things up for you; and yet, you're still fighting, covered in crap and smelling terrible, but you've not given up.
Now *that*, for an employer is a jigsaw-completing quality - determination and spirit are invaluable. Show this at an interview and your redundancy just got you your next job.
boakes.org
I can telly you from sitting on the employer side of the interview table that 99% of candidates have had bad luck. If they had good luck, they would not be looking for a job at age 45! Most interviewers know this and so they are trying to sort out the good people from the people that have bad luck for a reason. As you seek your job:
* Remember that everyone else has had bad luck!
* Figure out how to stand out from the other hard luck cases. Highlight your involvement in the community or using your time to help your family.
* Practice your story and make sure you accentuate the positive - what you got to do, etc. Be good an answering the hard questions.
* GET REFERENCES FROM THOSE SHORT TERM EMPLOYERS!
In the end, getting a job is easy:
* Have passable resume
* Get interview
* BE ON TIME AND LOOK GOOD!
* Sell yourself and don't game people by lying or embellishing the truth
* ASK FOR THE JOB!
* FOLLOW UP!
* Did I mention, FOLLOW UP!
-- $G
I list it accurately and tell the truth about it if asked. That means I have job endings including a pre-IPO start-up I bailed from when I spotted the vultures circling, one I left because of lousy management, one I left because of incredibly poor IT infrastructure, some because of layoffs due to economic downturns, getting declared "redundant" after a merger, a couple of "project was cancelled", and some "project had a sudden goal change and I was no longer a good fit".
No one has been upset to see them, nor have they questioned the wisdom of my actions.
If asked about "are there any positions you left off your resume, I say "Yes, either because it was short and irrelevant just to pay bills, or because I have no wish ot EVER do it again and if it's on the resume I keep getting asked to do it". Again, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
After being in the workforce for almost 10 years, I found a lot of position with wrong job requirements. One job that I actually applied for stated flat out that you need to be a certified Novel engineer. I was pretty surprised that I got a call back since I had zero experience with Novel. I was even more surprised that I was hired for the position and that the company didn't even have a single Novel box in the building. It turns out that some clueless HR Drone padded up the wanted add with industry buzzwords. So don't be afraid to apply for a position even if you don't qualify for every listed req.
Frankly, after about ten years experience very few companies want to hire you. Reasons:
1. They think you're too expensive
2. They think you will be a hard-ass
3. They think they can't control you, because you have been around the block and know the corporate bullshit. Which is true.
4. You are no longer idealistic and won't work OT much
5. You are smarter than the hiring manager, and he knows it
6. Your name is to easy to pronounce
7. If you were laid off and couldn't find a job in this crappy economy, then you must be really bad person.
8. Old people (over 40 maybe 35 these days) are lucky they are allowed to breathe.
9. You'll be bored.
10. Corporate medical insurance premiums raise drasticly with more older workers. (VERY TRUE AND COMPANIES HIRE BASED ON IT)
I'm an employer. Honesty matters. You've done nothing to be ashamed of. Tell the truth. If you get caught in anything less than the total truth, then you probably won't be trusted ever again - despite any *good* explanation you have for your previous prevarication.