New EU IP Law Deemed Harmful

JPMH writes "The Register is reporting on this alert from FFII about a new EU Directive on IP enforcement due to go to the Parliament legal affairs sub-committee on Monday, and full Plenary in two weeks time. The detailed text of the measure was only published on Tuesday. FFII says that without better defined safeguards the Directive will lead to a far more agressive, lawyer-driven legal environment for creative businesses. Having seen how similar legislation is used in the United States, FFII fears that it will provide the perfect means for agressive litigators holding dubious intellectual property rights to "pull a SCO" and use the powers of the Directive to seriously harass and damage small open-source projects and innovative businesses. FFII has a list of MEPs to contact here." The law has been described as a DMCA on steroids. We've reported on this before, but it bears repeating...

Comments

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[beego ogeeb]

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Re:beego ogeeb

[Anonymous Coward]

*tee-hee* can I be your bitch??!! write back pls

Might as well take advantage of the situation...

[dnixon112]

and switch my major to law.

GET READY

[propstoalldeadhomiez]

TO SUCK ON MY COCK!

Was just thinking about this.

[hyc]

No really!

http://yro.slashdot.org/~hyc/journal/

Re:Was just thinking about this.

[New Account Time]

STFU FAGGOT

Re:Was just thinking about this.

[kevin7kal]

Sorry to be the ignorant one who is not up on current topics, but who. what, where, or why is FFII? Anytime you include some organization in your /. article, you should link a website to their name. I'm writing this because I am always interested.

Re:Was just thinking about this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Foundation for a Free Information Infastructure. http://ffii.org/

Re:Was just thinking about this.

[Anonymous Coward]

It *was* linked! Hello ... McFly!

nigger post

[propstoalldeadhomiez]

LYNCH! LYNCH! LYNCH!

Enough with the motto:

[Anonymous Coward]

"news for nerds, stuff that matters", now it's "I know we've reported on this before, but it bears repeating."

Hey michael, here's a free clue: WE HEARD U THE FIRST TIME!!!!111

International Solution

[erick99]

Perhaps there needs to be a cohesive international set of laws for such matters. Clearly these issues cross many borders (The RIAA and it's overseas equivalents, etc.). Software companies, music industries, artists, etc. all sell their wares into a global economy. Just an idea....

Happy Trails!

Erick

Re:International Solution

[Zork the Almighty]

I think the problem is that we are going to get an international solution. Western civilization will decline across the board.

Re:International Solution

[Deekin_Scalesinger]

I'm not surprised by this. Business is business, and with the world getting smaller (gawd I hate that phrase) it is easier to see how ideas, good or bad, can be implemented in different markets. One step closer to a world government - whether that is a democratic one or one owned by corporations is yet to be determined...

Re:International Solution

[The Slashdotted]

It's been said before, but there are many third world countries that can ill afford the western conception of intellectual property. Seaworld embraces conterversy openly. Mexico/Columbia can barley fight our war on drugs, and they have no inherent interest enforcing the US IP.

There was a point in time where the far right opposed any multinational government. "Get us out of the U.N." was one of their chants. My how times have changed.

Re:International Solution

[kfg]

Perhaps there needs to be a cohesive international set of laws for such matters.

That is what we are in the process of acquiring.

That is the problem.

KFG

Re:International Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

That's hope that neither the US or the EU has anything to do with it then.

Re:International Solution

[Lonath]

Harmonization is bad. It means "take the union of all of the restrictions and laws that are found in any country and apply them all to every country." One problem with this is that the laws are never completely equal, so, there will be places with slight differences, and these differences will then become the foundation for the next round of "harmonization". That means that things keep getting worse. It's also bad because the countries have "lawmakers" whose job it is to make laws. And they're very prodigious. They can take the status quo and be told by their contributors that things need to be change, and the lawmakers will mount their high horses and propose new laws and restrictions so they can be seen to be doing something and there can be many buzzwords they use to justify this: "doing it for the children", or "harmonization" or "globalization" or "the war on terror" or "being tough on " or "free trade" or "fucking poor defenseless sheep" or "liberty and justice for all". And they will use these words as a smokescreen to cover up the powergrab that's basically being done in the name of the people who give them money. (And btw, I slipped a little joke fake reason into that list of reasons. Did you catch it? You did? Cool, I knew you would pick up on the fact that things aren't really done for liberty and justice for all.)

Ok, end of rant. But, I do think harmonization is dangerous for the reasons stated at the beginning of the post, and I don't even know if people realize that's what happens. Oh well.

Re:International Solution

[AllUsernamesAreGone]

They haven't - that was multinational government, what this is is something quite different. This is getting other countries to agree to the rules the US wants, not getting the US to agree to a consensus.

Re:International Solution

[SphynxSR]

Your doing nothing more than using the US as a scape goat to the EU's own problems. The problem can't be here. It must be someone else, this decade it is the US. Next it will be India or China, maybe even dare I say it and EU country. There is a saying, and I don't remember correctly. a individual person is calm and rational. A group of people get frightened and irrational. That applies to the US. That applies the RIAA, that applies SCO board, that applies to the EU. The trick is getting them to stand on thier own. Look at the EU you have three powerfull countries tell all the rest what to do. Fixing them would be a great start. and Two of them at teaching you to the US as cause of your problems. Nice bait and switch.

Re:International Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the point of the post you're replying to. What he was saying was, the right wing in the US is happy with international IP laws which match what US corporations want, but not happy with the UN trying to tell the US what to do. I don't even see how that amounts to claiming there's a problem in the US - it sounds like a perfectly rational point of view to me.

Re:International Solution

[Peter Harris]

Seaworld embraces conterversy openly.

I hadn't heard that to be so. Mind you the walrus has been known to 'play with itself' up against the window of its enclosure. Is that sort of behaviour so controversial in Florida, though?

Re:International Solution

[DukeLinux]

The International community will come to some agreement and the United States will go the way of which special interest group pays off our congress critters the most. In college all my engineering classes were taught in metric. Has the United States ever adopted the metric system? Noooooo. Will we ever do anything that that fosters cooperation with anybody? I doubt it.

Re:International Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps there needs to be a cohesive international set of laws for such matters.

There is! Thats what these guys got us! (or rather got those who use intelectial property protection, which is among others, is us slashdot readers)

Just becouse big lobbying coorporations think "their" copyright laws are "broken in this post napster age", doesn`t mean copyright protection and other "intelectual property" laws are an unorganized/broken mess. If only human right laws where as well maintained and enforced internationally as "intelectual property" laws...

It would be interesting to watch two western cop`s, one going after a chines knockoff manufacturer and another after chinese refugee smuggeling organisation. I am not saying one will have succes and the other not. I am saying It will be intersting to watch by who either one is helped or obstructed.

Re:International Solution

[iminplaya]

There can be no copyright/patent reform. We must abolish all of it. You just have to trust me.

Re:International Solution

[iminplaya]

Harmonization is bad.

Off key is even worse. :-)

What would you do
if I sang out of tune
Would you stand up
and walk out on me...

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good old fashioned snake oil

[segment]

The draft Directive is a result of pressure brought by Hollywood and the music industry to crack down on music copying, and by luxury brand owners such as Yves Saint Laurent to crack down on counterfeiting. However, it is now apparent that the main result will not be a reduction in music copying, so much as a reduction in competition and in traditional usage rights. They seem to answer their own questions regarding stemming counterfeiting, yet they still intend on bringing out the laws. Amazing.

There will be significant adverse effects on economic growth and innovation; the European Single Market will be undermined; and liberty will suffer in many ways. What I don't understand is, if they're seeing all of this in their own words (source for the italics ), then why on earth would they bring down the house of cards.

Third, the winners are a small number of large organisations (AOLTimeWarner, Bertelsmann, Microsoft, Sony, Honda, Yves Saint Laurent...) who have been able to coordinate their activities and lobby internationally Personally I think someone/somegroup should ban together and create an international ban on those corporations who are threatening the liberties, and rights of others for their own gain. It would be nice to see the geekcommunity come together via some form of petition, but sadly I could see trollers messing things up/

Anyone care to draft up a legal go to hell for the overseers, I'll glady append the signature to it.

Re:good old fashioned snake oil

[Jackdaw Rookery]

"Anyone care to draft up a legal go to hell for the overseers, I'll glady append the signature to it."

There is enough information on here to do a decent letter, just add in the politness that is required when dealing with MEP's.

If you think IP is a bad idea DO something about it. Don't wait until someone writes a letter that you can just copy and paste. Send a letter, an email if a letter is too much hassle. But do something.

I've just written to my MEP Arlene McCarthy, arlene.mccarthy@easynet.co.uk, she's one of the MEP's for the North West; if your in Cheshire/Lancs/Cumbria/Merseyside write to her.

Get busy.

Re:good old fashioned snake oil

[Xyrus]

With all this ip protectionism and with the advent of bio-silicon interfaces, I'm just waiting for the time when we get DRM installed in our brains at birth and have to pay royalties everytime we think about a song or algorithm. On the other hand, with everyone and their sister getting patents, copyrights, etc. I suppose there is no reason to worry about this ever happening. The human population will litigate itself back to the stoneage. It will all end when one collective claims they have a patent on the life process, and to enforce their rights they plow an asteroid into the planet to defend their ip. ~X Worthless Quote Of The Moment: "Look on the bright side. You'll die quicker."

Harmful

[Nicholas Evans]

If this gets harmful, I don't even want to know what gets damaging.

This doesn't sound good

[HenryFjord]

These new 'laws' which are being brought forth are further restricting our privacy and fundamental rights as citizens. As soon as any form of government censorship is instituted on the web bad things happen. Look at China for example and all of the problems which are resulting due to the increasing control of the government. Officals there have realized how the Internet brings forth free speech and are attempting to control it. This goes against the fundamental principles which the web was built upon.

I fear that the western world is headed down this path of censorship and corporate/government control.

/remove tinfoil hat

Outsource!!

[gnuman99]

Now we can outsource all the OSS projects to India. Nothing to worry about! :)

Innovation [noun] - the different ways that one may file a patent and/or sue for profit.

Re:Outsource!!

[Zork the Almighty]

Underdeveloped countries are the easiest to pressure. Just threaten to penalize companies who hire offshore workers from [insert third world country here]. It's a credible threat. I for one, do not welcome our new "intellectual property" overlords. The more I have thought about it, the more I have become convinced that intellectual property shouldn't exist at all.

Re:Outsource!!

[gnuman99]

No!!! I own your braincells!

Patent 9433043: The method by which nerons are stimilated to discharge ... (pause) ... electrons.

Patent 9433044: The method by which pressing ordered objects causes a letter to appear on a display

Patent 9433045: The method of for ( ;; ) { ... }

Re:Outsource!!

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

Too bad neurons do not discharge electrons, they just cause a magnetic wave to propagate through a kalium/natrium solution with a membrane between them. There won't be many electrones moved around, and they'll all move nearly perpendicular on the direction of the fired neuron.

Re:Outsource!!

[Zork the Almighty]

Patent 1: A method by which amino acids interact to form complex structures.

Re:Outsource!!

[advocate_one]

IP should exist, but only for a strictly defined time period before it goes into the public domain. Seven years is plenty of time for money to be made off a film, book or idea... if you can't make enough money in seven years then it can't have been that good anyway... Seven years would force companies to be far more innovative and not just sit on their vast IP portfolio milking it forever...

If you want an example of bad practice... just look at how EMI are coming down on DJ Danger Mouse for his remix of Jay-Z's Black Album and The Beatles White Album... they've had plenty of time to milk revenue from the Beatle's work... in fact most of the revenue now doesn't go to the former Beatles at all but to service Michael Jackson's Bank Of America Loan...

Re:Outsource!!

[Doomdark]

Seven years is plenty of time for money to be made off a film, book or idea... if you can't make enough money in seven years then it can't have been that good anyway...

Further, copyright protection expiring does not automatically mean you can not sell your stuff any more. You just can't force others not to do the same; they are free to try to sell it too, if they can get copies to sell. Pharmaceutical companies have to live with similar situation (although instead of 7 years it's 20).

I mean, it should be just as it is with drugs; brand names have limited amount of time to sell for monopoly premiums, after which brands have to compete with generics. Although with books/movies you don't create brands for individual products, it's not too difficult to envision publishers (book, movie, whatever) to maintain their brands as company. I mean; if you want to watch a Disney movie, would you (generic you, as in clueless parents, kids etc) rather buy it from Joes-movie-shack, or from, say, Disney corp, Disney store or such? And you can still label things as "original" (Bayer Aspirin)... it's just that unless big media corps HAVE to compete, they will always find excuses not to.

What everyone needs to do is

[Knight55]

to start filing patents like mad. They're the new gold.

Re:What everyone needs to do is

[orthogonal]

to start filing patents like mad. They're the new gold.

The new alchemy, the new "philosopher's stone", is more like it.

Lawmakers have been working for centuries

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they planning to make a code-freeze sometime soon, or are we gonna have perpetual upgrades?

Hey anti-IP pussies..

[New Account Time]

Hey, anti-IP pussies:
pussies:........_____........
pussies:........|_ _|........
pussies:...n....(O O)....n...
pussies:...H..._|\_/|_...H...
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pussies:.<V VV /.....\ VV V>.
pussies:..\__\/|.....|\/__/..
Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.

Re:Hey anti-IP pussies..

[Anonymous Coward]

At least try to make it look like Dilbert:

^^^^^
|_ _|
n (O~O) n
H _| o |_ H
nHnn/ \___/ \nnHn
.<V VV / PHB \ VV V>
\__\/| SUX |\/__/

This

[JoeBaldwin]

Drives the final nail in the coffin of a progressive EU willing to stand up to big business. Fine, they're gonna rip MS to shreds, but there will only be other fatass monopolies ready to take their place and this law will reinforce the fuckers.

I'm writing my MEP as soon as possible. (Yes, I am in Europe. Yes, I am in Britain. Yes, I do like Europe.)

Re:This

[Goddamn Niggers]

fuck you, eurotrash piece of shit

Re:This

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are not American, then you are writing to your MEP.

Re:This

[mormop]

Fine, they're gonna rip MS to shreds

The EU puzzles me to be honest and I find myself stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea regarding Britain's actions within it.

On the one hand you have Munich, the IBM/SuSE deal and a claim to further Open Source in government and on the other you have Arlene McArthy et al apparently preparing the tools to nail FOSS. The fact that a Labour MEP should be heading this one is no suprise though as the UK gov has bent over backwards to befriend big business in the same way that a wimpy little twat at school will kow tow to the school bully in order to boost his position in the pecking order ( a sure sign of deep personal insecurity).

I don't think that the EU could be accused of tearing MS apart either because a 100,000,000 euro fine is pissing in a lake as far as MS are concerned. I suspect that it's more a shot across the bows designed to frighten MS into thinking what could happen if they don't drop the arrogant attitude and start behaving more like a partner instead of the dictator that their monopoly allowed.

I too like the concept of Europe. Unfortunately though the leaders of the member countries always seem to be trying to bend the rules for their own nation's benefit rather than looking at the big picture.

With a UK government run by people that are really turned on by being seen with the rich and famous while having no understanding of the concepts of ethics, morality or, for that matter, shame, I can't see things improving.

Re:This

[jez9999]

Alas, I find even my dad, as solicitor, using the 'write you' phrase these days. Methinks it'll become as ubiquitous as 'OK' pretty soon.

Re:This

[seanellis]

I'm writing my MEP as soon as possible.

Me too - I just sent an e-mail to the Lib Dem MEP overseeing this legislation. Let's see whether we get a reply.

Lawsuit Driven Environment

[aynrandfan]

FFII says that without better defined safeguards the Directive will lead to a far more agressive, lawyer-driven legal environment for creative businesses.

I read "lawer-driven" as "company X has no viable business plan, and will sue the ass off anyone who crosses their line of sight."

What pisses me off the most is how it is business that has become it's own worst enemy. Do you really think the companies pushing this type of legislation care about an economy free of arbitrary government control. Fuck no! They want the government throwing it's weight around, only as long as the government is on "their side." Dammit!

Re:Lawsuit Driven Environment

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies without measures to stay alive on the market shouldn't have a legal way to keep themselves on the stage anyway. That's quite offending to the 'free market'-way of thinking.

Expert Advice

[Fisting Advice Troll]

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• Ask your host what the house rules are This includes where you are allowed to play and what supplies you should bring (I always bring my own lube, beverage, paper towels and other party supplies to private parties). At THE SLING you can bring your own lube or we sell it there. Bring your own beer if desired, we provide sodas, paper towels, gloves, condoms and shower. For all parties it's polite to bring your own towel in case you want to shower
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• If you move any equipment around return it to the original spot when done For example, if you raise or lower the sling, return it to where it was when you got there. Or if you move a table or chair, return it.
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Proper Fisting Technique Photograph

Interesting article about Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:D6PDAum7yOAJ: brian.carnell.com/articles/2001/08/000028.html+Jon +Katz+fired&hl=en&start=7&ie=UTF-8

Re:Interesting article about Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

jesus christ, either learn how to use html tags or just don't bother. you trying to get that link read or just ignored?

Re:Interesting article about Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Please forgive my undeveloped html skills. Perhaps you could use an advanced copy-paste technique to render the link in your intarweb-based browser software.

So, basically, this is where

[Anonymous Coward]

society collapses under the weight of its' own beuracracy and slides into the next dark ages?

Just checking, you know, to make sure I properly understand the situation here...

Re:So, basically, this is where

[Anonymous Coward]

society collapses under the weight of its' own beuracracy and slides into the next dark ages?

Yeah I hope the islamo-fascists hurry up and use their nukes so we can enjoy the full post-apoclypse experience.

(Hi FBI guys - if my post offends you we can duel in the Thunderdome)

MOD PARENT UP! +5 INFORMATIVE

[Goddamn Niggers]

When will it stop?

[Aurix]

If European Software patents are introduced, Europe will be a technology victim, and will be restricted from innovating (dare I say) like other countries.

When will the European governments realise that software patents are/were a bad idea to implement? Will it be after their IT economy crashes? Or, several years after?

Re:When will it stop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not until after they start issuing licenses to code. If you take the current trends toward effectively restricting who can write software (money for lawyers) and the trends towards paranoia due to big media greed and terror concerns, how long will it be until you need a license from the state to engage in such activities? Only if they can control what gets written, will they finally have total control and security.

Re:When will it stop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust Europe to shoot itself in the foot. China and USA will be the winners, as that is where actual manufacturing plants are. Effective enforcement means doing something about the factories churning out 'products'. If those factories are offshore - enforcement is not going to work. Let EU pass silly and unenforcable laws with no teeth. That Chinese factory taking EU jobs will roar with laughter. Huh - and they wonder why unemployment is biting.

Re:When will it stop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Manufacturing plants for what? Since this appears
to be led by the music industry it is worth
pointing out that an awful lot of CDs are
pressed in Europe. There is still a large
manufacturing base in Europe, even if it is not
as large as it was (ditto for the USA). China
is, however, winning considerably in terms of
attracting manufacturing.

We, as consumers, potentially win by getting
cheap goods. Perhaps one of the reasons why
China was successfully able to negotiate
exemptions from Kyoto is due to a recognition
that it is a way for the west to outsource some
of the carbon production associated with the
production of some consumer goods.

I prefer not to buy from China
due to the human rights record there, although
it's not always obvious that a product is from
China, so I regularly get caught out. Also some
companies in Taiwan insist on describing their
products as 'made in China' which might lose them
some sales.

Re:When will it stop?

[adamsan]

Uhhhh.... I think one of the points of this article is that THE USA ALREADY HAS THIS SORT OF ENFORCEMENT!! Sorry to shout there.

In my part of the EU we're rather short of people and need more to immigrate here to fill the vacant jobs. Rather than 'biting', unemployment isn't really a an issue that worries us right now.

Perhaps the users of fark.com would be interested to hear your views on intellectual property and the global economy however?

Re:When will it stop?

[Elektroschock]

You misunderstood the case. This IPR Enforcement directive is NOT about the legal validity of software patents. The software patents directive was corrected by the EU parliament in September and is is going to be "recorrected" by the council, so the main focus of FFII laid on this.
SO FFII and all the others (AEL, EF Finland ecc.) defend the current corrected former swpat directive.

The IRP enforcement directive is about enforcement, giving power to the rights owner, orginally against product privacy some persons introduced DRM, TCPA ecc. This was already removed. The problem is as so many different spheres of law are comprised by the unscientific, unjudicial term Intellectual property rules that apply well for product privacy cause much trouble for patent enforcement. FFII UK explains this very good on their site.

There are several groups that critizise the directive, FFII has a moderate position as they are in favour of copyright. I suggest you to read the current council draft of the directive by yourself and look for problems. You can easily see in the proposal that it is premature. The language used is often inappropriate and infringes on certain legal standards.

Good news: DRM and TCPA was deleted, most groups were concerned about this, so the directive already failed from the viewpoint of those who drafted it. We won! So let's get rid of the ugly rest.

"Article 21
Legal protection of technical devices

Deleted"

But this does not mean that it will not be reintroduced by MEP amendments ecc. Criticism of the directive goes trough all parlamentary groups.

What FFII wants get out is that the directive also apply for patent legislation. Because patent infringements are very easy and criminal sanctions against patent legislation may be a danger for business. This is also the industry position. FFII is no mayor player in the IPR Enforcement debate. Most was done by IPjustice or other DRM activists. FFII was very busy with the swpat directive, so they could not devote time to the IPr enforcement directive or ENISA.

Re:When will it stop?

[Aurix]

Not until after they start issuing licenses to code. If you take the current trends toward effectively restricting who can write software (money for lawyers) and the trends towards paranoia due to big media greed and terror concerns, how long will it be until you need a license from the state to engage in such activities? Only if they can control what gets written, will they finally have total control and security.

This still won't stop people stealing other companies/people's intellectual property.

I think by far the best option to create a generic law obeyed by many nations declaring fair use of Intellectual property, and ensuring stupid patents (like online shopping carts) never see the light of day.

Re:When will it stop?

[Aurix]

If I read your comment correctly, we have nothing to worry about by EU patents? (Sorry, I've had a bit to drink).

The legal validity of software patents isn't my problem. My problem involves future software designers/programmers who are unable to write programs that may impose upon existing software patents. In turn, this will adversely affect EU and their IT economy.

Linus has been quoted as worrying more about EU patents than SCO and the McBride crisis. I recon he's right, but I hope you're right in that we have nothing to worry about.

Cheers

Re:When will it stop?

[JPMH]

You misunderstood the case. This IPR Enforcement directive is NOT about the legal validity of software patents.

True, but there are still 30,000 granted software patents in Europe, and the industry giants are pushing very hard on the EU Council of Ministers to reverse the Parliament vote. The implications are potentially very frightening, if the sort the enforcement measures proposed in this Directive become available for use by any agressive litigation company acting on the basis of a dodgy software patent. So I think Aurix's comment connecting this with software patents is right on the mark.

As to FFII's position: FFII is strongly in favour of copyright, and FFII is strongly against piracy.

We think copyright is the right way to build a fair information infrastructure. We are vehemently against commercial software being ripped off and placed on warez networks; and we are vehemently against GPL software being ripped off by closed source companies. But there has to be a balance between the interests of supposed rightsholders (often very powerful) and the interests of other creative companies against wrongful claims of infringement.

It's not just about patents. We're also very concerned about the possibility of these measures being used in disputed copyright cases, disputed trademark cases, disputed cases about claimed confidential information... etc, etc, etc. Under Article 2, the Directive could be applied to "any [claimed] infringement of intellectual property rights as provided for by Community law and/or by the national law of the Member State concerned" -- ie at the moment the whole of Intellectual Property law could be grounds for initiating these measures.

That is why we believe it would be safest if the directive were to be sharply reined in, and apply only to commercially organised, knowingly intentional copyright and trademark infringement.

Re:When will it stop?

[Elektroschock]

You wrote 'The legal validity of software patents isn't my problem.'

Sure it is:

My problem involves future software designers/programmers who are unable to write programs that may impose upon existing software patents. In turn, this will adversely affect EU and their IT economy.'

There are 2 different directives

* swpat directive (says swpats are invalid)
* IPR enforcement (if patents are valid they can be enforced with the stronger new rules targeted to pcombat product privacy)

FFII was focussed on the first directive while other groups worried about DMCA focussed on the second. FFII's main concern was to take patents out of the IPR enforcement directive, that is also the industry position. It was left out but reintroduced in a recent draft.

Re:When will it stop?

[Elektroschock]

agreed!

Perhaps you should also mention the conference of FFIi in brussels where we all can discuss the current legislation.

I assume that the IPR directive will be postponed as it is too controversial, even within the parties.

It has to be pointed out that IPR enforcement and swpat directive are not quite the same and it is also difficualt to get for some persons why FFII is now in favour of the corrected Parlaments' swpat directive.

Watch closely...

[no longer myself]

What's really interesting about this case is the fact that Europe will more than likely approve the law without making any adjustments or making only superficial adjustments in order to say, "See? We took your side into consideration," without actually doing anything that would truly relieve any of the fears.

As time goes by it will be useful to observe how people will cling to an increasingly abusive state, and to see how many of them will turn on their own friends and relatives to ensure the safety of their own skin.

Meanwhile, for those of us who brave the -1 threshold I'm not even remotely surprised that this topic is being trolled to death. The corporatists have an agenda, and people trying to discuss their options threaten to interfere with their desire for unquestioned authority.

Good Luck Europe.

Yeah, well, in the real world

[Anonymous Coward]

that's how you maxamize profit. Anything else takes too much time and resources.

Welcome to capitalism, grab your ankles.

Captain Fucking Obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, the sky is blue.

Re:Captain Fucking Obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll?

FUCK YOU NAZIMODS

If anything, it was FLAMEBAIT, with the reference to 'CAPTAIN FUCKING OBVIOUS'. Please, next time, refrain from choosing an INCORRECT setting for moderation, such as TROLL (which this was not, true trolls try to disguise their trolling somewhat to lure you in).

I guess the wanker that modded me down is pro-DMCA, since my comment merely made the assumption that OF COURSE DMCA-STYLE LAWS ARE BAD. And thus, for it to be a troll, the reader would have to be pro-DMCA.

Fucking wankers.

"Trolled to death"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh christ, get the FUCK over yourself.

The "corporatists" have NOTHING to fear, least of all from a circlejerk of college-aged children who are blind drunk on their own egos and nievete.

Yes, the sky IS falling. Yes, we ARE sliding into another dark age. Yes, it REALLY IS THAT BAD.

There is not JACK SHIT that you can do about it, so the "corporatists" are most likely at home, wathing tv or banging their wives. (something your virgin self won't ever have to worry about.)

GPL Patents?

[The Slashdotted]

Many companies cross-licence their patent portfolio, so they can "innoviate" without treading on others IP. Would it be possible for the public to "develop" patents, transfer them to an FSF-like organization, and use them whenever a SCO type org starts threating the OSS public?

I relize that Patents are different from Copyright in that patents must be defended to remain valid.. But does it prevent any $0 licence?

People have claimed most patents are obvious. ./ readers could challenge ourselves to develop simularly obvious work.. The only problem I could see is enforcement costs time and money.

Re:GPL Patents?

[kfg]

I relize that Patents are different from Copyright in that patents must be defended to remain valid.. But does it prevent any $0 licence?

Patents do not necessarily need to be defended to remain valid. In fact the presumption is that they do not. It might even be fair to say that the way things are right now most patents aren't defended. They just sit in the vault until the time is right.

You'll find many of the morally offensive legal battles going on right now are over patents that sat latent for years before the holder decided to file a suit against someone with money.

However, a good many patents are also given a public license, a $0 grant of use. The idea is not only valid but widely used.

But, patents are not like copyright which simply exist from the moment of creation. Obtaining a patent is a legal process which is time consuming and costly. While it is practical for a rich corporation with a flock of its own patent attorneys to file patent claims by the wheelbarrow full, the independent inventor may not have the means to file a single patent, even on a very lucrative invention.

And then yes, holding a patent is pointless if you can't defend it. Obtaining a patent might only cost a few hundreds to thousands of dollars. Defending one against Sony or Microsoft might well cost millions.

It's a sticky wicket I'm afraid.

KFG

Re:GPL Patents?

[jizmonkey]

It's unlikely you'd get a U.S. patent for a few hundred dollars. The filing and maintenance fees alone even for a small entity can easily exceed a thousand dollars. That's assuming you write the entire patent application yourself. Unless the inventor has a lot of experience with patents he is quite likely to write a very narrow, useless patent. Patent attorneys start at about $200 an hour. Altogether the costs of obtaining a patent are measured in the tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the firm and the complexity of the invention.

On the other hand, defending a patent is not necessarily expensive, because most alleged infringers would rather settle than litigate. Litigation costs millions for the defendant as well as the plaintiff, and the infringer can have huge potential liability (otherwise, the patentee wouldn't have gone to trial), say tens of millions of dollars.

Re:GPL Patents?

[Elektroschock]

A patent is a granted monopoly right, it does not have to be defended. In fact most trivial patents are not defended at all (defensive). But when a company fails in the market they may "pull a SCO" or the patent assets are bought and exploited by a patent attorney company. So trivial patents and software patents are weapons of mass destruction, a danger for E-Commerce.

Re:GPL Patents?

[Perky_Goth]

We don't want to defend them, we're against them!

Re:GPL Patents?

[Foobar of Borg]

However, a good many patents are also given a public license, a $0 grant of use. The idea is not only valid but widely used.

But, patents are not like copyright which simply exist from the moment of creation. Obtaining a patent is a legal process which is time consuming and costly. While it is practical for a rich corporation with a flock of its own patent attorneys to file patent claims by the wheelbarrow full, the independent inventor may not have the means to file a single patent, even on a very lucrative invention.

Well, if you have ever tried to patent anything, the main cost is in the lawyer and not the filing. Plus, you can get what is called a small entity (or some similar name) status, which costs less. There is also a system whereby, for a smaller fee, you can register your invention without going through the whole patent process. Basically, you get absolutely no protection, but your invention (assuming your application is considered legitimate) is on record and can be used as prior art against someone who later files for a patent. Some companies use this system as sort of a "scorched earth" policy to keep other people from using an idea if they can't.

Take all of this with a grain of salt since IANAL or an expert in patents.

The sky

[Anonymous Coward]

Is both BLUE And FALLING!

Re:The sky

[Anonymous Coward]

_________
____j____
____e____
_JEE-BUS_
____e_ ___
____b____
____u____
____s____
_________

Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.n filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.n filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.n filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.

Out to get us or just clueless?

[sirReal.83.]

I'm interested in what the ratio is between politicians who are fully corrupt and know what they're doing with this, and those who are simply along for the ride (and due for a swing or three from the old cluebat). Usually the two groups get lumped together. Harassing the former won't help; the latter may actually lend you an ear. How do we tell who's who? Look at voting records and campaign contributions? Who's the ugliest (which side would that make them on...)?

Slashrape: A victim's story

[Anonymous Coward]

There I was, hanging out on Slashdot, just having a good time with my buds (all level-headed guys and not Linux-lovers or homosexual in any way), when it happened... The topic was something or other about Microsoft and I foolishly suggested that perhaps Microsoft wasn't actually being malicious or something or whatever they were accusing it of...

Suddenly, they were all over me. Limp wristed little "harumptf!"s of outrage and anger assailed me. I was lightly slapped and scratched about the face, ass, and balls. And... oh god... I... I have to say it... they assraped my karma! Please, let this be a warning. I don't want anyone else to go through what I have suffered.

What?!?!??!

[GoMMiX]

You fools!

The new EU version of the DMCA harmfull????

Surely you are jesting, Sir!

Re:What?!?!??!

[maduro55]

Please stop calling me Shirley.....

niggersq

[Anonymous Coward]

niggers gay fags fuck you motherfuckers
2pac rules forever
TROUBLE ON MY MIND I'M WITH THE OLD TIMES SO FUCK FIVE-O TURN EM INTO 49ERS

niggers
niggers
niggers
gay fuck homo sex gloryhome jizzpot jihad al-qaeda 16 ON DEATH ROW niggers

what difference does it really make?

[RLiegh]

Here in the states, at least, the clueless ones have shown a marked tendency to listen to the "expert advice" of corporate lobbyists instead of the layman. So the end result has wound up being the same.

sample petition

[segment]

Intellectual Property template petition... I know someone can throw something together a hell of a lot better. Instead of critisizing it though, just do it. Sure it may sound lame, maybe banners should be posted, or something to signify that everyone can come together and have a voice against this type of bs. Yes I know sounds trollish to an extent, but hell an international group making noise is a lot more than a few people locally. Demographically this could affect everyone. Besides if thousands can come together under a free kevin like cause, certainly we all could come together for something more important.

Re:sample petition

[Stallmanite]

As silly as this seems, for a banner campain to be even moderately successful, there needs to be a slogan. Something like "free kevin" or "burn all GIFs". Something simple; fewer syllables the better.

excuse me, but

[Anonymous Coward]

WHAT THE FUCK are you GOING ON ABOUT?!?!?!

now, what about this?

[ardor]

a hypothetical scenario: What if enough developers & scientists threaten to leave the EU? it has been said before that there are several countries denying this IP nonsense. now, if enough developers/scientists threaten to go, CEOs and politicians should start to think about it. without these people, no innovation would happen in the union. not that there's any chance that this might happen, of course.

Re:now, what about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Go where? India will likely adopt similar
regulations to fall in with the US/EU model.
Australia seems to be doing the same.
Europe is about to expand to 25 nations. That
basically leaves Russia, China, the Middle East
(not my first choices of location), countries
in Africa with no IT industry, or Brazil.

To be honest only India (short term) and Brazil
look plausible.

Re:now, what about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

a hypothetical scenario: What if enough developers & scientists threaten to leave the EU?

Threaten to leave where?

Re:now, what about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where would we go?

Countries like the US, Australia and Japan already have or are passing such laws.

Third-world countries and/or totalitarian states aren't exactly attractive alternatives for other reasons, so that eliminates much of Asia, Africa, the Middle-East, South America etc.

What's left? Canada and New Zealand, I guess... What if they cave in to industry pressures, as well?

Re:now, what about this?

[lordholm]

They already do. But they go to the US. One of the Commissions greatest concerns at the moment is the brain-drain of Europe. Prominent Scientists and Engineers go to the US as they get a) higher salary, b) larger funding for research.

One solution would be to actually give the Scientists and Engineers in Europe higher salaries and larger funding... but that would be a to easy solution.

However, my point being that most Engineers give crap about what laws are in effect to threaten their freedom, they just follow the guy with the largest wallet.

Help us to stop this in Australia as well

[Quizo69]

I've begun a political party here in Australia called Net Effect, which is based on the internet. Right now we only have 10 people who have decided to become members. We need 500 to become a registered federal political party, so we can get on the ballots and fight our recently agreed to Aus-DMCA thanks to the new FTA our government signed with the US.

If you're Australian (anywhere, not just living here), please visit and make your views known in our forums, and if interested become a member.

If you are another nationality, you can still be a forum participant and advise us on how we should go forward to fight this sort of thing. We want to harness good ideas from everywhere, not just our own country, and in return give those same ideas to everyone else who wants to use them. Open source politics, as it should be.

Re:Help us to stop this in Australia as well

[sir_cello]

The IP enforcement directive has nothing to do with DMCA, software patents etc: it's purely about effective copyright enforcement. This works for open source community as well: it can more effectively pursue actions against abusive uses of the GPL and related licenses.

Re:Help us to stop this in Australia as well

[Elektroschock]

I would also like to suggest you to take part in the second round of WSIS in Tunis. Be part of the civil society caucus groups. Put papers and links on your website. Let the light of the public shine.

FFII

[bottlerocket]

Final Fantasy 2? Who knew the Japanese would be so perceptive?

Re:FFII

[graveyardduckx]

American or Japanese FFII? FFII here was FFIV there.

These are the Good Old Days

[serutan]

I think those of us who are still alive half a century from now will look back on this period of time as the end of a Golden Age, before The Few Who Must Own Every God Damn Thing took the world back, and the rest of us resumed our roles as peasants. Or I guess it's "consumers" now.

Re:These are the Good Old Days

[janbjurstrom]

It's The Patent's world, we just live in it..

Re:These are the Good Old Days

[Anonymous Coward]

The Patent Is Your Friend!

Re:These are the Good Old Days

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, could this be the beginning of the end of capitalism as we know it. Lets look at history, of every system which first worked and got into severe imbalance where the masses had to suffer, there was a backswing.

Religious wars (30 years war) had a philosophical backslash in the following years, which caused modern science the diversion of government and church and democracy, the absolutism ended in the french revolution and founding of the United States and the French Republic.

The dictatorial communism ended in the collapse of the system because it was no longer carried by the people.

And what we are running into here seems to be the end of the corporate capitalism.
It would be more of a wonder than anything else if major corporations like they exist now will still be existing in about 100 years, if they dont change their way.

Probably it could be the end of the monetary system at all, depending on the problems we run into by the current situation.
From everything which had a major failure in the past people have turned away from at least for a few hundred years after the experiment failed.

I see corporate capitalism going the way of the Dodo, all it needs is going down further down the current road, and a bunch of people (who will arise), with new ideas on a countersystem which could work!

For instance going back to micro companies with open borders so that every country has the chance to produce and the wealth can be shared instead of being grabbed by a few corporations and the people behind it!

Re:These are the Good Old Days

[Anonymous Coward]

Said a man who spent 30 years in a siberian gulag.

"There are two types of people, political prisoners, and thieves. Political prisoners are people who more or less are victims of circumstance, having somehow 'offended' their political betters with some minor beureaucratic infringement. Thieves are people that are driven by greed and self interest, often to murderous degrees. For they care nothing for the impact their actions have on others. They care only about their own gain.

This is a basic summary of human nature, every time, every political system suffers the same binary sociological corruption.

Corporate imperialism, socialist totalitarianism, each system, each age produced the same basic human dynamic of political prisoners and thieves.

In almost every scenario the thieves develop a 'ruling class' where they dominate by violence and intimidation. It is no different today in any polical or economic system.

The thievery of ideas, of knowledge, power and money are all at stake in this debate. It is unlikely the results will differ from any time in the past, only the names will change.

Re:These are the Good Old Days

[maduro55]

Where are you going and why are you carrying the handbasket?

Alternative?

[Power Luser]

Above all, FFII would like to see:

Disputes about patents and trade secrets/confidential information taken out of the scope of the directive altogether. The draconian measures being discussed are completely inappropriate for such complex disputes.

So does the FFII believe that these kind of disputes should be left to the legal systems of individual member nations then or would the FFII prefer to have the EU draft some other directives to handle them uniformly? Or would any directive on this kind of dispute be too draconian according to the FFII?

It's fine to oppose something on principle but the FFII's alert doesn't seem to be proposing any alternative solution, other than "not what you've got", which weakens their stance IMHO. If they want to make a stand on IP, then they should do so instead of just being naysayers.

Re:Alternative?

[The Wicked Priest]

Opposing the measure without providing an "alternative" is just fine, if the existing system of laws is working satisfactorily. Is it? I'm not a European, so I won't presume to say. But I imagine that the FFII would say either that it is, or that it needs to be liberalized -- not made stricter. A "solution" is only needed if there is, in fact, a problem. And as far as I can tell, the only "problem" is that the copyright cartels aren't raping their customers as hard as they'd like to.

Re:Alternative?

[Power Luser]

But that's the point: they don't even make any claims about why the status quo is better, or even if it's better, just that the proposed measures are draconian. They don't propose a better solution, just that the EU's solution is bad. They don't even make it clear whether they think the EU should try to control this kind of thing. And for a group that seems to have a fairly large interest in patents and IP, that grabs me as kind of lame. Do they have an agenda or not?

Re:Alternative?

[JPMH]

So does the FFII believe that these kind of disputes should be left to the legal systems of individual member nations then or would the FFII prefer to have the EU draft some other directives to handle them uniformly? Or would any directive on this kind of dispute be too draconian according to the FFII?

Europe isn't entirely a legal black hole, you know.

It's worth noting Article 2.1:

the measures and procedures provided for by the Directive are to be "without prejudice to the means which may be provided for in national legislation, in so far as these means may be more favourable for rights holders",

Recitals 4 and 5:

(4) At international level, all Member States, as well as the Community itself as regards matters within its competence, are bound by the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property (the "TRIPS Agreement"), approved, as part of the multilateral negotiations of the Uruguay Round, by Council Decision 94/800/EC5 concluded in the framework of the World Trade Organisation.

(5) The TRIPS Agreement contains, in particular, provisions on the means of enforcing intellectual property rights which are common standards applicable at international level and implemented in all Member States. The provisions of this Directive should not affect Member States' international obligations, including those under the TRIPS Agreement.

and Article 20:

Without prejudice to the civil and administrative measures and procedures laid down by this Directive, Member States may apply other appropriate sanctions in cases where intellectual property rights have been infringed.

The point is, that this directive goes far beyond what was agreed at TRIPS in promoting the interests of supposed rightholders. (It is "TRIPS-plus" in the jargon, or "the DMCA on steroids", according to Ross Anderson in Cambridge).

The other point is that it is absolutely against any idea of good lawmaking for rightsholders to try to crash this through all its remaining Parliamentary stages in three weeks flat.

It's fine to oppose something on principle but the FFII's alert doesn't seem to be proposing any alternative solution, other than "not what you've got", which weakens their stance IMHO. If they want to make a stand on IP, then they should do so instead of just being naysayers.

You might like to look at the amendments being canvassed by Andreas Dietl of European Digital Rights (EDRi), which you can find on the FFII website.

Re:Alternative?

[Elektroschock]

FFII is a strong supporter of copyright and also is not against the scope of the directive, there are other more fundamental critics like IPjustice and so many other groups that helped to get the DRM out of it. FFII was quite a long time not very concerned about the directive as the patents were taken out, but now they are in again.

The problem from the FFII and industry side is: the directive mixes up different intellectual property rights and let stricter enforcement targeted to product privacy apply for patents as well. Given the fact that patent infrigements are usually not-intented and patents are usually more fuzzy defined this is totally inappropriate. The industry and FFII fear that the directive messes up the EU legal system. So to speak a free Kalschnikow to patent privateers.

See detailed information about FFII's position here. And don't discuss short quotes.

Non-UK Europeans?

[CvD]

Where can us non-UK Europeans find out who are MEPs are and where to write them?

Re:Non-UK Europeans?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep5/owa/p_meps2.repar tition?ilg=EN

Re:Non-UK Europeans?

[Anonymous Coward]

JURI commission

List of members

hi

[nuckle-k]

i'm drunnk. (*mod hint: -1 off tocpi)

Re:hi

[nuckle-k]

drunk. not funny. definitely not funny,.

Re:hi

[nuckle-k]

LOGOUT

SeaWorld

[Anonymous Coward]

It's been said before, but there are many third world countries that can ill afford the western conception of intellectual property. Seaworld embraces conterversy openly.

I'm glad you brought this up. SeaWorld is a breeding ground of discontent and anarchy. One of its leading citizens, Shamu, is particularly notorious for his open disdain of intellectual property.

FUD

[sir_cello]

The FFII is putting out a lot of FUD about this directive. It merely harmonises law across states: it does not increase it (except for those states that have poor IP law).

The alert is couched in the kind of rhetoric that does nothing to establish civilized debate (they used terms like "pull an SCO", "nuclear weapons" of IP law enforcement, etc) but you usually find with FUD.

The "anton piller" orders (i.e. search and seizure) they get so upset about are already available in many jurisdictions (e.g. the UK), all the directive is doing is making sure that the same procedures can be used across all EU member states, otherwise copyright infringers are able to locate their activities in a low-enforcement-quality state and make copyright law ineffective elsewhere in the EU.

It's total FUD by the FFII that "In Europe these kinds of investigatory procedures are more usually associated with criminal proceedings with a much higher standard of proof": anyone with legal training (i.e. someone like me) will tell you that these orders are routinely used in civil actions, they are not "more usually" associated with criminal proceedings. There is already a very high standard of proof required by judges for anyone trying to use these orders: in fact, the proof and consequences are such that most lawyers will tell you that wherever possible try to avoid them, only use them when they are really needed: the whole purpose of these orders is to prevent an infringer from dumping evidence (e.g. flushing it down the toilet).

So when FFII blocks this directive, and then we find a commercial company operating out of a new EU member state where enforcement is not harmonised that's abusing the GPL, and no one can take action to prevent that GPL abuse, then we'll find out how happy FFII about the state of IP enforcement. I would think that it's in the interest of the open source community to look for more effective IP enforcement measures, but to prevent any IP protection measures that stifle open source. These kind of enforcement harmonisation has no negative effect on open source: in fact, it goes some what to helping the situation.

Re:FUD

[Anonymous Coward]

except for those states that have poor IP law

Since you don't tell us one goddamn thing about what your issues with the FFII's statements are-- you just say "it's FUD", but don't bother justifying this at all-- I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're hiding one hell of a lot of stuff behind those nine words there.

Maybe the idea here is that the FFII's idea of "good IP law" and your idea of "poor IP law" happen to coincide, and what you call "poor IP law" is exactly what the FFII is trying to preserve?

So when FFII blocks this directive snip gpl abuse

This is a rediculous thing to say. The GPL requires a very minimal concept of copyright in order to operate. Essentially, in order to prevent abuse of the GPL, all that is necessary is for the law to say that you can't legally redistribute another person's copyrighted work without their consent.

If you're honestly stating that there's some area where the copyright law doesn't say that, well screw it, that means that persons in that area can make derived works of the GPL in that area and give them to other persons in that area without supplying source. That also means that persons in that area can make as many copies of Adobe Photoshop as they want and give them out to anyone. I think you're going to find very few GPL advocates complaining about this situation. I also think you're going to find these countries perfectly capable of concluding this is an unacceptable situation and fixing it completely of their own accord without the EU implying this from outside by force and with extra conditions added.

Re:FUD

[sir_cello]

I did raise what my issues were with the FFII's statement: didn't you read the rest of the post?

Re:FUD

[JPMH]

This directive merely harmonises law across states: it does not increase it (except for those states that have poor IP law)... The "anton piller" orders (i.e. search and seizure) they get so upset about are already available in many jurisdictions (e.g. the UK), all the directive is doing is making sure that the same procedures can be used across all EU member states, otherwise copyright infringers are able to locate their activities in a low-enforcement-quality state and make copyright law ineffective elsewhere in the EU.

Strangely enough, this is just what Janelly Fourtou told us in Strasbourg last week, just after she tried to persuade MEPs that we were talking about an out-of-date draft of the Directive -- which we weren't; and just before she told us that she too has been trying to take patents out of the Directive -- which, according to minutes of recent 'Trialogue' meetings, she hasn't. (Mme Fourtou is the MEP who is steering this through the Europarliament, and entirely coincidentally happens to be the wife of the CEO of Vivendi-Universal)

It simply isn't true.

Anton Piller orders are currently only available in the UK and France ("saisi-contrefacon"). These secret court authorisations of raids for evidence carried out by the plaintiff's own agents are not available in any of the other states of the EU.

Furthermore, after very strong criticism from the most senior judges, in the UK a strict new code of practice was brought in in the early 90s which cut the number of applications granted by a factor of ten. (See this page for references to the detailed cases). The judge who led that criticism, Lord Scott, was subsequently head of civil justice for five years, and is now one of the Lords of Appeal in the House of Lords -- the most senior court in the UK. He now chairs the House of Lords scrutiny committee which has refused to clear this legislation. If he is concerned about the detailed text, then we all should be.

We are talking about unannounced dawn raids by private security firms, piling in with legal authority and seizing entire computer systems and filing cabinets full of documents. That is a terrifying and destructive experience for a small firm.

That is why FFII is arguing that such measures should only be available in the most extreme circumstances, and where there is clear evidence of a deliberate knowing intent to infringe for commercial gain on a commercial scale. Such measures are totally inappropriate where there is no such deliberate piracy, and no such emergency, in cases as complex as those in patent law and disputed ownership of confidential information/trade secrets, which routinely can take five years in court. Such measures should not become automatic standard procedure in all IP disputes.

Furthermore, we think it is simply insane to try to crash through such a major change in the civil justice system -- a truly massive change in the whole legal IP environment for most firms in Europe -- in three weeks flat from publication of the detailed text to final vote in Plenary, short circuiting all the normal three readings procedures of the Parliament, and before even first publication of the results of the UK consultation and the UK impact study.

No, this is not just FUD.

Re:FUD

[sir_cello]

If that is what the FFII is arguing (and your points are very well informed and valid), then why doesn't FFII explain that in its press releases rather than going for the loaded jargon in a way that seems to argue for dismissal of the entire law. As far as I can see - your points are not FUD, but the press release certain smells of it.

Re:FUD

[Elektroschock]

The FFII position is the industry view. It is quite moderate and I think they don't agree with the wording of the alert on slashdot although it may be helpful. Read the original position of FFII before you accuse them.

I qoute:
The IP Enforcement directive is very important legislation. It should give businesses a familiar single legal landscape for IPR enforcement issues right across Europe; and stamp down hard on organised criminal counterfeiting and piracy.[..]This is very sensitive legislation. The directive represents a once-in-a-generation change to the legal landscape that companies have to deal with on Intellectual Property Rights - copyrights, trademarks, patents, confidential information etc etc. Hardly a single company of any size will not be affected in some way. It is of fundamental importance that this legislation is got right first time.
FFII view
FFII fully supports firm action to crack down on organised counterfeiting and piracy. But FFII is very concerned by the danger of unscrupulous operators "pulling a SCO" with groundless claims of IP infringement, and misusing the very powerful measures contained in the directive to unfairly harass and damage legitimate companies. FFII believes that the best course would be for the directive to be limited to its original proposed scope, namely commercially organised, fully intentional copyright and trademark infringement.

Re:FUD

[sploxx]

> Anton Piller orders are currently only available in the UK and France ("saisi-contrefacon"). These secret court authorisations of raids for evidence carried out by the plaintiff's own agents are not available in any of the other states of the EU.

This is the thing most people fear the most IMHO. And they're right. C'mon. This can't be true. You (allegedly) did a bit of file-swapping and "they" come and do a house search?! WTF?! Politics for the citizens? For whom? Many, many many do file-sharing. Just about everyone I know did it or does it.

Here in germany, we have a system called GEMA that reimburses artists for their work by fees you pay on every copying-device (casette-player, cd-burner etc.). This principle is of course not 100% fair, but it worked for several decades and everyone was happy. Now we have the situation where we have the GEMA and we have the law that forbids us to circumvent copy protections... i.e. you pay for copies, but you must not copy copy-protected material.
Soon we'll have seizures, people in jail for copying etc. And that is progress??

Sorry for this rant.

Re:FUD

[Anonymous Coward]

Shock and awesome post.

It merely harmonises law across states: it does not increase it (except for those states that have poor IP law).

This sentence is incredibly persuasive: it is not contradictory (except for the parts that are contradictions.)

The "anton piller" orders (i.e. search and seizure) they get so upset about are already available in many jurisdictions (e.g. the UK), all the directive is doing is making sure that the same procedures can be used across all EU member states, otherwise copyright infringers are able to locate their activities in a low-enforcement-quality state and make copyright law ineffective elsewhere in the EU.

So we need one world government as far as copyright is concerned or copyright law is ineffective? Does this philosophy apply only to copyright or do we need to "harmonize" drug laws, tax policy, murder etc. Wouldn't we need to "harmonize" the judicial systems also? Countries that allow juries to decide these matters could have a much lower "conviction rate" than countries that decide these things through "copyright boards" and make copyright law ineffective elsewhere in the world.

It's total FUD by the FFII that "In Europe these kinds of investigatory procedures are more usually associated with criminal proceedings with a much higher standard of proof": anyone with legal training (i.e. someone like me) will tell you that these orders are routinely used in civil actions, they are not "more usually" associated with criminal proceedings. There is already a very high standard of proof required by judges for anyone trying to use these orders: in fact, the proof and consequences are such that most lawyers will tell you that wherever possible try to avoid them, only use them when they are really needed: the whole purpose of these orders is to prevent an infringer from dumping evidence (e.g. flushing it down the toilet).

So are they "routinely used in civil actions" or are they so hard to get that "most lawyers will tell you that wherever possible try to avoid them?"

So when FFII blocks this directive, and then we find a commercial company operating out of a new EU member state where enforcement is not harmonised that's abusing the GPL, and no one can take action to prevent that GPL abuse...

So the GPL can't be enforced unless all countries have the same copyright laws?

How did this get modded up?

Re:FUD

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you going to post that part soon?

my experience with this community

[Anonymous Coward]

hey guys,

i'm not sure exactly what i'm doing here. so...bear with me!

i clicked "geeky" on my match.com personals profile, thinking that i'd maybe get hooked up with somebody who was into math or some kind of toy train hobby or something...boy howdy was i in for a shock! i went on 4 dates with guys who all got on match.com because of osdn personals from slash-dot! 4 guys!

anyway, it didn't really work out with any of them, because it seemed like they were all under some kind of mind-control robot or something! i was like "what do you think about office? office 97 is enough for me, but there are some things about xp that are cool too...." the first guy i asked that to exploded on this tyrade about how office was evil, and that it uses html that's invalid...blah blah blah, whatever...i figured "ok, this guys a freak, but i'm not giving up that easily." so guy number two and i are having dinner, and just as a test i bring up office, and he says the *exact* *same* *things* the first guy said! it was like he was reading from a script! i'm thinking to myself "is everybody from slash-dot programmed to say the same thing or what?" i decided to do a bit of investigation.

i actually surfed over to slash-dot and read some of the articles...mostly they were pretty boring, and the comments were just like i expected judging from my previous past experience: scripted!!! just when i was about to completely write the whole thing off, i found a post from some guy who's with anti-slash, some kind of anti-slash-dot website. i mailed him and was all "i so agree with you guys, look at what sheap these slash-dot people are!" he wrote back and made some funny comments (funny and so *true*!...that is soooo the best kind of humor...but i dirgress...) and guess what? this weekend i'm supposed to meet him for dinner :) if you're reading this, i look forward to meeting you in person, john!

anyway, that's my story. ladies: if you're looking for the real cool geeks, check out anti-slash. and fellas, you should check it out too and maybe use to to break out of your mind-control suits!

ok see ya later,

cyndi

DICKERS

[I LIKE TO INSERT MY]

FUCK
SHIT
CUNT
ASS
BITCH

Re:Might as well take advantage of the situation..

[Anonymous Coward]

law isn't a "major" you junior college dropout.

READ ABOVE!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

cat just pooped, it stinks.

Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Can intellectual property exist in a hive mind?

Slashdot us!

[Anonymous Coward]

Digitalpanic.net

Europe Section

[RAMMS EIN]

Would it be a good idea to add a Europe section to slashdot?

Recent developments in politics have had significant impact on the rights and liberties of citizens. Where hackers have traditionally chosen to stay away from politics, these developments force hackers to be aware and stand up for their rights.

Slashdot has done a good job of reporting and fostering discussion on political issues in the USA. However, much of the badness that happens in the States, because of flawed laws and a flawed legal system is threatening to happen in Europe as well, as a result of introducing similar laws, without people being adequately aware that this is happening. Many slashdot readers know about the DMCA and its pitfalls, but awareness of the EUCD is much lower, even among European readers. Any discussions concerning the Rest of the World tend to be overshadowed by discussions about the USA.

The source of the problem appears to be the US-centric nature of slashdot. To salvage this, europeans could turn to their own sources for news and discussions concerning them, but I do not believe this is the Right Thing. It separates the communities, which favors alienation over mutual understanding, and makes both sides miss out on insightful and interesting comments made on the other side. Instead, I advocate that slashdot add sections for different parts of the world, so that readers from each part can get news concerning them, while still participating in global discussions and having the option to join discussions concerning those in other parts of the world.

Note that, although I have written this post from a very Europe-oriented perspective, the arguments apply equally well to other parts of the world, e.g. China.

Re:Europe Section

[LordK2002]

Note that, although I have written this post from a very Europe-oriented perspective, the arguments apply equally well to other parts of the world, e.g. China.

That is, assuming that Slashdot is actually accessible from China, which would seem somewhat unlikely given that the Chinese government considers the BBC subversive.

K

Re:Europe Section

[RAMMS EIN]

There is still a point for a section on China even if it is not accessible from within. Many chinese live outside the People's Republic of China, but are still interested in what goes on there. And non-chinese may also be interested in chinese news.

Re:Europe Section

[ControlFreal]

I fully agree with you that there should be a Europe section on ./. After all, although ./ is US-centric, it's not that US-centric: about a quarter of the readers are Europeans.

I do also agree with you that not separating the communities is a good idea: sure, we could start slashdot.eu (or slashdot.nl, since most of Europe's internet connectivity to the US seems to pass through the big relays in Amsterdam), but that would make two different communities.

OTOH, I also think that the "Europe" section should be confined to, say, yro-europe, since most other subjects are pretty international.

My EUR 0.02

Re:Europe Section

[Elektroschock]

Or a slashdot.eu site.
They will launch DotEU soon. .eu.org domains by the way can be got for free.

I would like to see a EU version of slashdot.

Re:Europe Section

[RAMMS EIN]

``OTOH, I also think that the "Europe" section should be confined to, say, yro-europe, since most other subjects are pretty international.''

There are good arguments to be made for more location-specific sections. For example, availability of a certain product in Europe could also be grouped under the European section. Nothing prevents people from different regions from reading the European news, and stories that are considered interesting for anyone can make it into the global section, in addition to any regional sections it pertains to.

Re:Europe Section

[Eunuchswear]

And, of course, the icon is a bull fucking a nymph.

This is about stiffling competition....

[kellererik]

... between the EU countries. What they want to avoid is the fact that a country with 'lax' IP laws could proof to be more successful than the ones with some kind of EU-DMCA.
The EU isn't 'united', it's a bunch of countries trying to equalize everything while milking the ones with some money left, Germany and France come to mind here (why these countries have to pay more than they get while being punished for not meeting the deficit criteria is beyond me). Europe is dictated by the individual interests of the members, e.g. you cannot afford to buy a decent banana from South-America in the EU because France made sure the imports from around the world except their old colonies are heavy taxed.
My point here is, since everybody is eying all others who might have an advantage, all members are easy prey for the lobbyists. The EU Commission is constantly under fire for not getting the needs of the people but ruling in favor of the big companies exporting the jobs to some Third-World country. Voting this year won't make a difference because regarding IP laws, the lobbyists where faster and have deeper pockets. Remember last year when EU-Citizens annoyed the politicians by demanding things while not paying for a free lunch at the same time?

my 2 cents

Re:This is about stiffling competition....

[zzyrc]

And what is going to happen this year? The same politicians will be elected again. So actually we get what the majority deserves.

Re:This is about stiffling competition....

[kellererik]

Sorry, for not being more precise: I don't think voting for the 'others' will make a big difference because the lobbyists already staked their claims over the ones in power and the 'potentials'.

hey i live in britian too!

[Anonymous Coward]

i used to think that our asian community were mad for keeping their money in gold jewelry and burning down my city whenever the police pissed them off. now i'm seriously considering where i can buy bullion standard gold chains and the best way to create a fuel bomb from readily available materials. so maybe you think now i'm mad too but it's only right and fair that our institutionally racist state cures itself by extending this persecution to all those who don't conform regardless of the colour of their skin.

we have no constitution. our judges are going to be directly appointed by the state. trials for serious crimes will be in secret with all lawyers appointed by the state before three jugdes appointed by the state with the standard of proof required being balance of probabilities. our government lies to our legislature and acts in directly contradiction of the written promises they made to the electorate whenever that's convenient. that's not a crime but possessing an iPod containing one MP3 ripped from a CD you own is a serious criminal offence.

see you in hell!

Special Treatment

[Karl-Friedrich Lenz]

The strongest criticism of this legislation has been pointed out by Ross Anderson: Why do we need any special rules favoring plaintiffs in IP cases, as opposed to plaintiffs in all other cases?

Even if there were any good reason for such special treatment, it comes at the cost of duplicating Member States' civil procedure and damage calculation rules, making them much more complicated.

The correct way to do this would be to work within the framework of EU contract law harmonization.

I have a few more comments on my blog, but generally I agree with all proposals to limit the damage from this harmful legislation project.

Re:Special Treatment

[Elektroschock]

Mr Lenz, read the 6 feb text of the directive, you are a professor of law, you will get soon that it is a totally premature draft, just look at the language used. There is so much confusion in the text. Why do we need for instance rules who to calculate the damage as civil right may be enough. And read how the damage is "defined".

Intellectual property rights is used as a term but nowhere defined. see Art 3.

It is a law written by radicals and lobbyists, but horrible from a law system perspective. I found the FFII position about this crap very moderate. You can read it here.

A question about the new EU patent law...

[DonaldDuckBigO]

Does it mean that my .sig will be illegal in Europe?

Btw. another note you can vote those people out

[Anonymous Coward]

This year are parliamentary elections.
I urge all the readers from france and GB
to vote people like McCarthy (responsible for last years assault against the patent status quo regarding Software)

And Fortou (the wife of the Vivendi boss, she is responsible for this bill) out of the office!
Please first of all go to the EP elections this year.
And please vote for people and parties who are against Software Patents and against this Copyright bill!

There are some in the EP those need to be strenghened. People like McCarthy, Fortou, and Wuermeling (the german pusher for US like patent laws) heve to be kicket out of this institution by their real bosses.

Givcen the fact that there usually is a very low voting quote at the EP elections, a few hundred thousand people really can kick those corrupt bastards out!

another link gone to pieces

[myster0n]

Obviously there are a lot of Europeans here :

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Self-defence

[Karu Major]

Many smaller european companies refuse to even enter the US market because of the risk of getting sued. With lawyers entering the european equation, companies are going to learn how to deal with legal issues. Up to now, on the legal territory, europeans have played the role of the indians, not the cowboys.

VERY IMPORTANT: 91/EC/250 is quoted

[lkcl]

91/EC/250 is the EU directive on copyright and the exemptions under which copyright law CANNOT BE ENFORCED.

specifically, interfaces between software-software, software-hardware and hardware-hardware are EXEMPT from copyright law.

whereas number 15.

it says that the new directive is "without prejudice" to 91/EC/250.

The reason behind...

[Maljin Jolt]

...is to protect european technology markets from cheap, fake and low quality chinese products actually produced by american corporations offshored to Asia.

Let's start the initiative then!

[ControlFreal]

Ok, see my earlier reply to this message:

Let's start the initiative then: sign this petition and add it to your sig.

I'll try to keep you posted on the progress.

Reductio ad absurdum

[FlyingOrca]

Please don't mod this "Troll", I am completely serious.

The current kerfuffle over IP, DRM, DMCA, et cetera strikes me as the accelerated approach of the logical end of the road we started going down when we first protected "private property". I honestly believe that the whole concept is wrong and b0rken.

I know, I know, modern society is *based* upon private ownership... but look where that has brought us! IP? Knowledge belongs to the species, folks. And any other species bright enough to grok it.

As for private property, the answer isn't to distribute it differently, no matter what the [Marxists, Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, blah, blah, blah] say. Let's just ditch the whole concept and see where that takes us! From here, it looks better to me.

FFII

[Anonymous Coward]

Final Fantasy 2 is doing what now?

I need more sleep.

Thanks SCO!

[Anonymous Coward]

It is strange and weird, but we have to thank SCO.

Usually, when freedom loving people (like ourselves) say oppose laws that seem good, people look at us like we're nuts, and we have to construct some worst case scenario. Usually, the worst case scenario is pretty far fetched, so the average idiot won't believe us.

Thank God for SCO. Their greed is a blinding beacon that provides a real-world example of just how screwed up the system can get when the use of "Intellectual Property" is brought up.

They are providing everyone around the world who opposes these types of laws a perfect case of bad laws gone worse, justice run amok, and scumbag "technology" companies that have more lawyers than engineers (or in Disney's case, more lawyers than animators).

EU directives

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad that I live in a country where such things are voted on by elected officials. To have some unelected bureaucrats issue directives seems a little backwards to me. Harp on America all you want. I'll take legislation passed by two houses of congress and signed by the president over some "directive" by unelected fat cats any day. Of course, we do have to deal with liberal judges who think their job is to write law instead of interpret it, but we have ways to deal with them.

Re:EU directives

[Mike A.]

You misspelled "conservative judges".

Bad example

[Rogerborg]

SCO has intimidated exactly nobody into buying a license, and they are getting their ass bitchslapped all over the courts by both Novell and IBM in the preliminary stages of both cases. The potential is there for abuse, but SCO are illustrating exactly how not to do it.

ERO?

[moeffju]

Would that be "European Rights Online"?

NO IP SERFDOM

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, that's the slogan I thought of, anyhow.

Not sure it's all that "catchy" but...

9/11

[gentoo_is_bogus]

Gave right wing governments the world over the perfect excuse to get stuck into liberties. Corporatisation of government has led to this.