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One more G4 for the PowerBook?
PurdueGraphicsMan writes "Much as we'd love to see the next PowerBook revision include a processor evolution to the mighty G5, we know it's not that simple. The Register provides some sound reasoning (and boatloads of model numbers and voltage specs) as to why we'll probably see a 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook before any G5 PowerBooks materialize." I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower. Oh, and I don't want to burn my lap.
Even though we all like to look at IBM as the hero of Linux and their cool chips... a little competition from Motorola can only be good for us consumers!
I would certainly expect the G4 to be around for at least a little while in portables (perhaps even a dual G4 in the 17in Powerbook), but there is a decided pressure to put the G5 in a portable. When I moved from a dual 1Ghz G4 to a dual G5 at 2.0 Ghz, the difference in performance was striking. For those users who are constantly pushing the limits of their hardware with compiling code or are heavy users of scientific code or even Photoshop, the G5 is a must have. And even though PurdueGraphicsMan would feel guilty, I would not, knowing that my research could go even faster than before.
The real beauty of the G5 is that not only do we get the raw power, but that power is coupled with an OS that is the easiest to use for both the basic user (undergrads or grad students coming into our labs to learn science and the research process) and the advanced user (computer science faculty we are collaborating with to build custom tools for data visualization and processing).
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Ummm...am I on the wrong website?
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package...
Yeah, it is far more satisfying having that much power in a large package in that general region.
Those issues will largely be solved by the recent die shrink at IBM.
I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package
Don't you mean, "on a small package"?
Well, I hope that they sell the low-power version of the laptop in the Swedish market.
"The next powerbook (and maybe powermac!) will almost surely be water cooled."
Water cool a laptop??? That would make it very heavy. the Piping, pump and water itself would add pounds to the weight of the laptop.
Evolution or ID?
And I just bought the 1.25Ghz AlBook, last week.
I'm thinking of starting to take up a fund, to help me buy any existing technology that people want upgraded. Then, it'll be a matter of two weeks and, ta-da, new tech is now available!
It only takes one mouse button to open the terminal. --Tsiangkun
Apple needs the G5. Powerbooks used to have a great advantage over x86 laptops in the battery life department, but that is no longer true. The 15" and 17" models typically only last 3 - 4.5 hours on a charge, the 12" maybe a little longer. iBooks last longer, but are a bit underpowered. With the introduction of the Pentium-M, there are now x86 laptops that are both faster and last longer on a charge (like the IBM T41). The Powerbook G5 cannot come soon enough.
I really hope that Apple do not release another G4 based PowerBook. Although I am pretty doubtful that this rumour is true.
The 166MHz bus in this thing is hardly going to be able to feed a 1.5GHz G4 CPU since this poor bus performance already cripples the current models. At least it seems they have got the L3 cache back. That should at least make things a little better.
I think Apple is more likely to use these faster G4s in eMac and iBook models rather than in PowerBooks. I think the iMac will also go G5 soon too.
There is no doubt the G4 will remain a staple in Apple's notebook lineup through 2005.
It amazes me that my 1st generation 400 Mhz G4 Powerbook is mostly hindered by lack of RAM (256mb installed) than processing speed. I have no doubt a 1Ghz G4 iBook would satisfy the computing needs of a liberal arts college student. Perhaps for those in engineering or graphics classes they would push the envelope, but teh G4 remains a great chip.
I would rather enjoy the cost savings and power consumption savings of a G4 laptop than the cool factor of a G5 because I just don't have that great a need.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
> The G4 is grossly underpowered in comparison with a Centrino [...]
Centrino is the name of the CPU, chipset, and WLAN card. The CPU is called the Pentium-M (or Banias). It's a sort of hybrid between the Tualatin P3 and the P4, taking the best features from both, with energy efficiency as one of the primary design goals. It's probably the nicest chip Intel has done in years.
>> And, speaking of humour...my prof's PowerBook core dumped yesterday as he was lecturing
Hello Basher, welcome to Nethack! You are a lawful human Knight.
You see here a apple.
There is an apple here;eat it? [ynq] (n)
The apple was delicious; core dumped.
What version of MacOS was your professor using? You never just see "scrolling text" take over the GUI.
/Applications/Utilities/Console.app. Usually what you get is a dialog saying "The application -blah- has unexpectedly quit," and a log file is written to one of several convenent locations.
If OS X kernel panics, the screen dims and you get a message in multiple languages saying a reboot is necessary.
You can view crash logs with
Where did you get lines of scrolling text?
Um, Didn't IBM just release the 970FX, which uses the the new (.09nm ?) process and significantly less watt's of power consumption, along with PowerTune, a speedstep-like technology that would further reduce power consumption?
Why yes, yes they did. Maybe that's how they will fix the heat issue.
There is a second mouse button - it is labeled "Ctrl".
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
They solved it. Now they include an asbestos underpants with every laptop.
It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.
How do I mod an article as a troll?
I know of several people a few of which are into professional video and audio editing and they have no issues with their PowerBooks either. Hell some of them are using models from a couple of years ago.
Comments like this are pure FUD. Yes the G5 is great, can't wait to get one in a PowerBook, but the G4 PowerBooks work very well.
Whoever modded this as interesting needs to be flogged.
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
OSX 10.3
The sleep function on Apple notebooks work so well that the ONLY time I reboot mine is for updates.
Now if you had a windows machine I could see the complaint since putting it to sleep is rolling the dice that the sucker will come up again :)
A sure sign that Apple is doing well is when people start to complain about the boot time because they have run out of other complaints!
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
nstead of a 32bit number it can do math with 64 bit numbers. Much larger numbers. On a 32 bit processor if it has to take a number larger than 32 bit and do computations on it then the number has to be broken up into parts and math done on them.
You couldn't be more wrong. The SSE2 instructions on Pentium 4 chipsets operate on double-precision (i.e., 64-bit) floating-point numbers (actually, they work internally with something like 80 bits, but that's more or less invisible). In no way, therefore, is a double-precision multiply "broken up into parts".
The reason why Pentium 4 systems are 32-bit is comes down to their memory addressing, and the size of their "default" integers. I think you'll find that integers are not used much in numerical modelling, apart from as array and loop indices. What was your point again?
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Well, I had a whole response typed upped but I went and read up on the 970FX on IBMs site and you are indeed correct. They got around the problems of leakage of strained silicon by combining SOI and SS. Pretty cool...literally. They also will be using IBMS voltage island techniques to reduce power (that's the real reason you will be seeing power use decreases, not the die shrink. SOI and SS both have issues as you get smaller. AMD and IBM will be completely combined in process tech starting at 65nm at AMDs new plant that is being built in Dresden and at the East Fiskill plant where the FX will be produced).
The prime benefits of the combined SOI and SS is that you get the ability to run with less power at the same frequency from SS but the SOI keeps the leakage characteristics of SS from generating ridiculous heat (look at Prescott).
It is going to be interesting.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Use the sleep functionality on your laptop. No OS's boot time can beat OSX's wake from sleep time.
I personally never actually power off my laptop, except for when I need to apply a security update.
Besides, my right-click is reserved for Expose.
There was a statement a few months back made by Phil Schiller (i think it was him?) that Apple still has a future with Moto processors for a while.
At some point Apple's hardware will eventually all go to G5/G6/whatever made by IBM, but it's going to be a while i think. In addition i think there are other Moto chips in Apple hardware besides the processor (sorry, don't feel like popping the case right now to check).
There are some good resources online explaining the relationship between Apple, IBM and Moto and the design and manufacturing of the PPC chips. I'm on crappy dialup, so i can't find them right now.
I know IBM was making the last G3s Apple used... which i guess were in the iBooks? I am 99.999% sure every Apple sold G4 chip was Mote, and IBM could sell them for other uses, including upgrades. the G4 upgrade in my G4 tower is a Moto chip though and i just got that a few months ago. actually offhand the people i asked with G4 upgrades all have Moto chips in them... so if IBM makes G4s that work in Mac hardware, i am not sure who uses it? I am not sure what YellowDog hardware was using for their G4s (could not run Mac OS 9 or OS X).
I mean.. lets say it didn't _have_ to be water..
.. interface)
i dont know about you but it seems like i've always got more extra "coolant" that my body is urging me to get rid of.. and this laptop is running to hot... and it's already sitting in my lap..
if some sort of interface were made to allow for human releif and laptop cooling... the problem could be solved.
(and there may be a spin-off use for this
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
I must say that the improvements in the speed of Apple portables have been really pathetic during all recent years. Consider this example.. almost two and a half years ago I bought an iBook with a 600MHz G3 processor. Honestly, I felt the performance was barely adequate and I decided to replace it eventually, maybe in about three years. But today, for about the same price, you can buy an iBook with an 800MHz G4 (and all other components slightly beefed up). The speed improvement is barely noticeable. In the same time frame the PC portables have improved by a whole lot more, not to mention, I wouldn't have had this performance anxiety if I bought something like an R-series IBM Thinkpad with +1GHz mobile pentium 3 for about the same price back then to begin with)..
If Apple doesn't come up within a year with an iBook replacement that has at least 1.5GHz or so CPU, I'll probably just switch to PC laptops.
You might want to get your facts a little straighter as the G5 consumes 24.5W@2GHz. So much for the Athalon 64@35W.
The people yelling "Underpowered!" are probably game freaks with lots of disposable income who completely rebuild their PC every 6-9 months. I'm not sorry that school is taking all of my money and I can only afford to upgrade every 2-3 years. Besides, 30 fps gains when your already above 200 fps really isn't necessary. The new UT2004 Demo runs just fine on my PB. I'm sure if you tried the PC version on a similarly spec'd PC (1Ghz AMD/512Mb/32Mb nVidia 5200FX) it wouldn't run near as fast. And I'm sure those playing on a Centrino laptop will find that UT2004 will definitely drain your battery in less than 4 hours. Probably closer to 1-1.5 hours and a much lower framerate due to the integrated Intel Graphics on many of those laptops.
People, its all about selecting the best product for your needs. Apple's laptops primary target market is NOT gamers, overclockers, or anyone whose on a Ghz rulz powertrip. Its much closer to people who just want their computer to work extremely well and are simple to use and not have to f* around with drivers for 2 hours just to get the damned thing to boot right.
I'm not even sure I should bother with this argument because everytime we get an thread on Apple hardware, I see the same "Underpowered!" and "Too expensive!" posts. And the people who make these arguments just don't understand what Apple, as a business, is trying to do. Make a profit, and build a computer that's easy to use.
Just a few thoughts...
Amigori
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
Somebody please mod this disinformation down. There are no 'heat dissipation issues' with regards to the G5. Yes, Apple does use a heatsink that's about 5" tall and a ton of fans in the G5 tower, but that's done to keep noise down, but because it's running scorchingly hot. I got to thoroughly check out a Dual 2.0GHz G5 at a LAN party last weekend, and the machine is near silent under normal use. I can't say that about my Athlon or the P4's I use at school.
If you're still not satisfied that's the reason, pull the side cover off a G5, then pull off the plastic panel that seperates the different airflow compartments - the computer will sense that the panel's been removed, thus disrupting the airflow and kick all the fans into high speed. You'll suddenly have the machine go from being near silent to about as loud as you'd expect a PC to be.
The G5 towers are amazingly well engineered machines, and it's really getting tiring to hear people mistake Apple's emphasis on quiet computing (extremely well executed) be mistaken for a non-existant heat problem.
"According to Motorola sources, a tweaked version of the Apollo 7450 G4, the 7470, will be ready for volume production shortly after the end of Q2, in time for a summer ramp. The 7470 will be manufactured on a 0.13 micron process, allowing for a smaller die size with room for 512K of L2 cache, and support up to 4MB of DDR-SDRAM L3 cache. The 7470 supports a modified bus protocol, MPX+, which supports double data transfer and which should effectively run at 266Mhz according to sources."
as taken from http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/24018.html
"The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
-Thucydides