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One more G4 for the PowerBook?

Posted by pudge on from the so-there dept.

PurdueGraphicsMan writes "Much as we'd love to see the next PowerBook revision include a processor evolution to the mighty G5, we know it's not that simple. The Register provides some sound reasoning (and boatloads of model numbers and voltage specs) as to why we'll probably see a 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook before any G5 PowerBooks materialize." I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower. Oh, and I don't want to burn my lap.

116 of 487 comments (clear)

  1. Relax, Pudge. by grub · · Score: 3, Funny


    It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package [...] and I don't want to burn my lap.

    Not to worry, the Viagra they spam isn't contraindicated against the "Grow your Willy 4 Inches in 4 Days" stuff.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  2. Go Motorla by Goyuix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even though we all like to look at IBM as the hero of Linux and their cool chips... a little competition from Motorola can only be good for us consumers!

    1. Re:Go Motorla by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My father in law works in a manufacturing plant for a parent company. They don't really do that much manufacturing. The parent company outsources over 95% of all their manufacturing needs. What they are really for is bargaining leverage. When the parent company negotitates, they have the ability to say "screw you, we'll do it ourselves." That alone drives costs down with all their partnering manufacturers.

      The situation with Motorola is not the same. But Apple can always leverage the idea of using Motorola chips again to hedge any abuse by other chip manufacturers, although they hopefully won't need to.

      --

      Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
    2. Re:Go Motorla by HellsAngel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't they make the G4 processors in the eMac's, iMac's, iBook's, and Powerbooks sold by Apple currently? They're still very much producing them if you ask me.

      --
      WTF?
    3. Re:Go Motorla by cygnus · · Score: 2, Informative

      someone mod this down.. it's just plain wrong. the PPC family is WAY bigger than what Apple uses. plus, Apple still uses the G4 family chips from Motorola in most of their product lines.

      --
      Just raise the taxes on crack.
    4. Re:Go Motorla by Lars+T. · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, they only released a new PPC processor to further confuse you and the braindead moderators that gave you an "informative".

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  3. Need the G5 by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would certainly expect the G4 to be around for at least a little while in portables (perhaps even a dual G4 in the 17in Powerbook), but there is a decided pressure to put the G5 in a portable. When I moved from a dual 1Ghz G4 to a dual G5 at 2.0 Ghz, the difference in performance was striking. For those users who are constantly pushing the limits of their hardware with compiling code or are heavy users of scientific code or even Photoshop, the G5 is a must have. And even though PurdueGraphicsMan would feel guilty, I would not, knowing that my research could go even faster than before.

    The real beauty of the G5 is that not only do we get the raw power, but that power is coupled with an OS that is the easiest to use for both the basic user (undergrads or grad students coming into our labs to learn science and the research process) and the advanced user (computer science faculty we are collaborating with to build custom tools for data visualization and processing).

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Need the G5 by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 4, Informative
      And even though PurdueGraphicsMan would feel guilty, I would not, knowing that my research could go even faster than before.

      Actually, that somewhat dorky statement about feeling guilty was relentlessly added into my post as though I said it. I would never say something that dorky.

      --


      The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    2. Re:Need the G5 by proj_2501 · · Score: 2, Informative

      NOT APPLICABLE HERE

      The G5 benefits from nicer architecture as well as a higher clock speed.

      Mod parent -1, Irrelevant.

    3. Re:Need the G5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yo dude, I've been looking back through your posts and it appears you have some serious anger management (or self valuation) issues going on. Perhaps the grad students are more productive on OS X than they are on other OS's. Perhaps the CS faculty (who apparently are valued for their opinions on computer science, thus their faculty positions) prefer OS X?

    4. Re:Need the G5 by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Grandparent poster didn't say "they can't learn to use another OS," he said, "this way they can use the OS that's easiest to use." I'm a CS grad student. I'm competent with several OS's including Linux, BSD, Solaris, and [sigh] Windows. I still prefer using a Mac, because even though I can get work done in other OS's, my work goes faster when I'm using OS X.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    5. Re:Need the G5 by drooling-dog · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is sure to get modded down by this crowd, but...

      This (usually baseless) need to have more and more power on a laptop - and to pay top dollar for it - has to be the marketing triumph of the century (well, maybe after bottled water). My old 400MHz IBM still does everything I ask of it, and if I had the choice I'd rather double the battery life than the processor speed.

      But thanks, anyway, for creating a plentiful secondary market for nice laptops. That's how I got mine...

    6. Re:Need the G5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      PPC chips (and, to a lesser extent, AMD Athlon chips) are both capable of doing more per cycle than the current offerings from Intel.

      And you know that because you read it 5 years ago on some Mac Fanboi website, right? Well, things change.

      Fact is, the G4 was never all that much better than a Pentium-III, and does far less IPC than either a Pentium 4 or a Athlon64. Currently the Pentium-M kicks the G4's ass for portable use (battery life & performance). This is a very obsolete chip that's on a hobbled 2001-era motherboard.

    7. Re:Need the G5 by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Actually, I already use Linux and Free BSD at work, and like me, my bosses don't put nerd pride above common sense. OS X is better because they've spent the time on making it easy to use. Once someone spends that same time on any of the Open Source OSes then they can be considered good. But until then it doesn't matter how powerful they are if only select people know how to use it. They aren't hard to use, but it doesn't make any sense to spend time learning an OS if there's one that's just as good (if not better) that's much easier to use.

      Just my $0.02

      --


      The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    8. Re:Need the G5 by localman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yup -- since you don't use need it, everyone else must be a fool to pay for it.

      I guess the fact that I use my laptop as a portable recording studio isn't a reasonable justification? Even the top of the line 17" 1.33 Ghz can't always keep up with my realtime processing needs.

      You're right in general about people buying more power than they know how to use, but there are also a lot of us who actually need that power.
      Personally, I am itching to get my hands on the next major powerbook revision. I doubt I'd spring for a measly 166Mhz bump, but I need all the power I can get. Definitely getting a G5 when they're available.

      Cheers.

    9. Re:Need the G5 by The+Almighty+Dave · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What do you mean by inferior?

      Runs on less platforms?
      Doesn't run as many applications?

      Any OS requires learning. More to the point, the applications that run on the OS have to be learned. Just because you are familiar with the system doesn't mean everyone is. You can pretend that Macs are intuitive, easy to use, whatever. In reality, anyone with no computer knowledge or someone coming from another system will have to learn how do things on a Mac.

      There is no "right out of the box and use it without learning".

    10. Re:Need the G5 by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 2, Interesting


      Computer graphics will always be cutting-edge. As CPU/Ram/Disk increases in capability, it'll be fully utilized by content creators immediately. So, I entirely agree that a 400MHz CPU is a absolutely great home/office desktop, but it makes a mediocre game/movie development workstation by modern standards.

      While graphics could be called a niche market, be aware that it includes MCAD/CAM, too, which isn't trivial by any measure. Basically, if it runs OpenGL, then there is always room for faster and bigger hardware.

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
    11. Re:Need the G5 by badasscat · · Score: 3, Informative

      This (usually baseless) need to have more and more power on a laptop - and to pay top dollar for it - has to be the marketing triumph of the century (well, maybe after bottled water). My old 400MHz IBM still does everything I ask of it, and if I had the choice I'd rather double the battery life than the processor speed.

      I said the same thing about my old 300mhz Celeron IBM Thinkpad until about a month ago, when I finally realized I was deluding myself, as you probably are. No offense, but to an extent I think this is a case of not really knowing what you're missing, and it's been true of public perception of every incremental speed increase in PC land in general, not just in laptops.

      No doubt you think of your laptop as being the perfect machine for a certain task or tasks. And at 400mhz, it does those tasks well. Maybe you use it for programming, or word processing, email and web browsing. Maybe you even store your pictures and play your mp3's on it (though I doubt a 400mhz laptop has a very big hard drive). I did these things on my 300mhz machine too. Eventually it got to the point where even web browsing was ridiculously slow compared to my desktop, so I upgraded.

      And with a faster laptop, especially a dramatically faster laptop, you are able to do many more things that you wouldn't have considered a laptop suitable for before. My new laptop has become my primary PC - I do everything on it, from photo and video editing to gaming to watching DVD's, dual-booting Linux and Windows (couldn't before; hard drive was too small) plus all the things I used to use my laptop for. Simply being a laptop is not the limiting factor that you probably think it is with an older machine.

      Oh, and you will likely get better battery life with a new machine. Mine gets around 4 hours and it's not even a Pentium-M.

      While I'm at it here, I want to say something about the following in the original article posting: It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.

      I'm not sure what to make of this. Is this a swipe at PC (in this case meaning non-Mac) users, or is it some kinship with fellow Mac users (including Macs in the term "PC" as it technically should be)? If it's a swipe at PC users, it's at worst inaccurate and at best debateable, as test after test has shown common x86-based CPU's to be at least as capable as the fastest G5 chips on a variety of real-world tasks and in synthetic benchmarks. Even a Mac-biased site such as this one shows older, slower x86 compatible chips to be neck and neck with the fastest G5 Apple still sells (and faster if you move to the games page) - and there are faster x86 chips out now (Here is a slightly more up to date comparison that focuses on 64 bit chips.) In laptops, a 1.7ghz Pentium-M runs neck and neck on most tests with a P4-3.2 desktop chip which would probably put it about on par with a single-CPU 2.0ghz G5 (I don't believe anyone has made this comparison yet, since you can't get a G5 in a laptop). And most Pentium-M laptops trump any Apple laptop in battery life. The Pentium-M is truly a revolutionary mobile chip - far more important by almost any measure than the 1.4ghz G4 being talked about here (sure wish I had one - I went on the cheap with a P4-M).

      I know I burn through karma like a wildfire every time I post something like this but it needs to be said, as there are a lot of assumptions made by people out there, along with plain old myths, that just are not supported by any real-world evidence. The equivalent of PC urban legends (and yes, I do post about real UL's too!).

    12. Re:Need the G5 by Octagon+Most · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is no "right out of the box and use it without learning".

      Except for NippleOS.

    13. Re:Need the G5 by andy55 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess the fact that I use my laptop as a portable recording studio isn't a reasonable justification? Even the top of the line 17" 1.33 Ghz can't always keep up with my realtime processing needs.

      Good points... as you use yours for a recording studio, i use my 17" as a intensive dev environment, with Metroworks Codewarrior, Dreamweaver, Office X, and photoshop all w/ stuff open (and compiling) at the same time -- when you're a shareware dev, you wear a lot of hats, and having that power and instant access to those apps is key. In fact, i just dropped in a 512MB module last week.

      The guys does have a point about marketing depts wanting us to think we need to spend all-out for *the* latest hardware in a laptop. Granted, doing hard core recording studio stuff (ie, make-or-break/critical real-time processing) in a laptop would be a good reason for a portable G5, but now we're talking a real minority of users.

      Separetly, the heat problem is an interesting one. My 17" already burns a hole in my lap when the CPU is maxed out, so the engineers have their work cut out for them for the heat load of a maxed out G5. whew.

      --
      G-Force music visualization
  4. I hear ya... by Chuck+Bucket · · Score: 4, Funny
    It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package

    Ummm...am I on the wrong website?

    CB

    --
    free ipod and free gmail!
    1. Re:I hear ya... by PseudoThink · · Score: 4, Funny

      Right we site...Pudge only feels guilty because he'll need that extra power to run his Windows emulator at even a marginal speed.

    2. Re:I hear ya... by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's something that people are missing about the PowerMac G5. They didn't just put a faster processor in the machine and release it, they totally redesigned everything in the computer. For the x86 world to catch up there are going to have to be some changes.

      --


      The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    3. Re:I hear ya... by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, while I'm a big Mac fan, and I've longed for a chip that brought the PPC back over x86 for speed, the PowerMac G5 really was playing catchup to the PC world for motherboard architecture.

      DDR RAM? Been there for over 5 years.
      8 GB memory? AMD boards beat us by a few months.
      Hypertransport? Been used for over 2 years.
      AGP 8X? Been used for a few months before.
      Dolby 5.1 sound on board? Been there for over 5 years.
      USB 2.0? Been there for over 2 years.
      PCI-X slots? Been there for over a year.
      ATA-133? PC has been there for over a year with built-in hardware RAID 0, 1, 5, 01, & 10 support that the Mac still doesn't have.

      Now...
      SMP on a single chip? Mac beat the PC there.
      Firewire 800? Mac beat the PC there.
      ...but neither of those really help the internal processing speed. (Neither does USB 2.0 or Dolby 5.1 sound.) The PowerMac G5 is just getting up to parity. The new 90 nm G5s will make a jump ahead for a short time, but Intel and AMD won't be sitting still. I hope that Apple doesn't sit on its rear on the PCI Express standard and gets us ready for it. With NVidia and ATI pushing it for graphics, I doubt that they can afford to.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  5. I know what you mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package...

    Yeah, it is far more satisfying having that much power in a large package in that general region.

  6. Guilt? by heironymouscoward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Not exactly the state of mind of most people when they purchase that ultra-compact incredibly powerful new machine using the PHP's lost credit card. I hate to ask this, but what kind of terrible Freudian traumas did you suffer as a child?

    Mother: Pudge, are you surfing in there?
    Pudge: Yes, mom, now leave me alone?
    Mother: Two-hand surfing, Pudge! And stay away from newsnet!
    Pudge: Grrrr... mumble. Thank god for peer-to-...
    Mother: And no Kazaa either!
    Pudge: Damn!

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  7. G5 in laptop prolly a little wait by millahtime · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The G5 will prolly wait a little longer to be in a laptop as the heat and power issue. I am sure they will get that down with the new power management in the G5 but it might take a bit.

    --
    Evolution or ID?
  8. Re:Watercool by and+by · · Score: 5, Informative

    Those issues will largely be solved by the recent die shrink at IBM.

  9. Too easy... by ryanvm · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package

    Don't you mean, "on a small package"?

  10. Too hot for Sweden? by Stack_13 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, I hope that they sell the low-power version of the laptop in the Swedish market.

  11. Re:Watercool by millahtime · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "The next powerbook (and maybe powermac!) will almost surely be water cooled."

    Water cool a laptop??? That would make it very heavy. the Piping, pump and water itself would add pounds to the weight of the laptop.

    --
    Evolution or ID?
  12. Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps by merlyn · · Score: 5, Funny
    Of course, it had to happen. Within two weeks or so of almost every Apple purchase I've made over the past 11 years, Apple has announced a much better unit for less money.

    And I just bought the 1.25Ghz AlBook, last week.

    I'm thinking of starting to take up a fund, to help me buy any existing technology that people want upgraded. Then, it'll be a matter of two weeks and, ta-da, new tech is now available!

    --
    1. Re:Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps by rampant+mac · · Score: 5, Informative
      "Of course, it had to happen. Within two weeks or so of almost every Apple purchase I've made over the past 11 years, Apple has announced a much better unit for less money."

      Apple will let you "trade in" any purchases you made, if a newer model is released. I can't remember if it's for 14 days or more that the coverage applies to. I believe it's 14 days though.

      Just call the Apple store if a new model is released, like tomorrow, and they can hook you up. I did just that when I purchased my 17" Studio Display (price dropped $200 3 or 4 days after my purchase, and I got my money back).

      --
      I like big butts and I cannot lie.
    2. Re:Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps by itomato · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You'd think that after 11 years, you'd have figured out Apple's product upgrade schedule. ;)

      Thinking back (but not too hard), it's been pretty much the same methodology since Stevie came back.

      Speed-bumped/updated current models appear 4-7 months before entirely new machines. This is stretched out over Consumer, Pro, and Pro-sumer lines.

      It's kind of like how automakers, well Ford anyway, introduces their cars. They put out the schmancy new Lincolns about the same time they upgrade the Taurus, which is about the same time they let loose a new compact. The high and low end products are the most daring, while bread and butter stays a little conservative.

    3. Re:Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's like that everywhere though. Hell, I bought a Dell Inspiron 3700 the moment it came out, and less than a month (or maybe 2 months) the 3800 came out to replace the 3700. The 3800 was faster, sturdier, and better.

      Apple keeps their mouths shut about releases for a good reason; it keeps their sales constant. If they said "Next month we're releasing a 1.5 GHz PowerBook," then their powerbook sales would come to a screeching halt until then. But if they keep their mouths shut, then people will continue buying PowerBooks at the same rate.

      Sure, it sucks for the consumers, but only if they let it bother them. I bought my PowerBook last week (my 1st mac ever) knowing full well that something better was on the horizon. But I don't care, as I'm more than content with my PowerBook (hell, I'm giddy).

      In the tech world, it happens. You can either wait-and-wait-and-wait-and-wait, or you can buy it now and be happy with it.

    4. Re:Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps by Echnin · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I refer you to the MacRumors buyer's guide.

      Days Since Update: 161 (Average = 163)

      --
      Lalala
  13. Re:Flamebait by Tsiangkun · · Score: 5, Funny

    It only takes one mouse button to open the terminal. --Tsiangkun

  14. Faster or longer battery life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apple needs the G5. Powerbooks used to have a great advantage over x86 laptops in the battery life department, but that is no longer true. The 15" and 17" models typically only last 3 - 4.5 hours on a charge, the 12" maybe a little longer. iBooks last longer, but are a bit underpowered. With the introduction of the Pentium-M, there are now x86 laptops that are both faster and last longer on a charge (like the IBM T41). The Powerbook G5 cannot come soon enough.

    1. Re:Faster or longer battery life? by Polo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't see why they just don't put (slightly) larger batteries in them. It would be interesting to know how they balance battery life vs size.

      Strangely enough, my older 15" tiBook has a 61-watt hour lithium-ion battery. It has 33% more capacity than the new 15" albook battery, which has a 46 watt-hour battery.

      The 12" albook has a 47 watt-hour battery and the 17" has 58 watt-hour battery. The iBook 14" has a 61 watt-hour battery and the iBook 12" has a 50 watt-hour battery. This is all from the apple store specs on the replacement batteries.

      Why don't they just put a 100 watt-hour battery in the 17"??

  15. asbestos? by Peartree · · Score: 3, Funny

    You just need to buy yourself a pair of asbestos pants :)

  16. Hypocrite! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package...

    You know you want it.

  17. Cache money by jargoone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Only 512K of cache? No thanks. I'll stick with my Centrino with 1MB. I try and try, and just can't kill the battery in it.

    Now if the bastards at Intel would just release the fucking wireless driver for Linux already, I'd be a happy camper.

  18. Poor performance by iJed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I really hope that Apple do not release another G4 based PowerBook. Although I am pretty doubtful that this rumour is true.

    The 166MHz bus in this thing is hardly going to be able to feed a 1.5GHz G4 CPU since this poor bus performance already cripples the current models. At least it seems they have got the L3 cache back. That should at least make things a little better.

    I think Apple is more likely to use these faster G4s in eMac and iBook models rather than in PowerBooks. I think the iMac will also go G5 soon too.

  19. This won't be the last notebook G4 by amichalo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is no doubt the G4 will remain a staple in Apple's notebook lineup through 2005.

    It amazes me that my 1st generation 400 Mhz G4 Powerbook is mostly hindered by lack of RAM (256mb installed) than processing speed. I have no doubt a 1Ghz G4 iBook would satisfy the computing needs of a liberal arts college student. Perhaps for those in engineering or graphics classes they would push the envelope, but teh G4 remains a great chip.

    I would rather enjoy the cost savings and power consumption savings of a G4 laptop than the cool factor of a G5 because I just don't have that great a need.

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    1. Re:This won't be the last notebook G4 by valkraider · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, I feel similar except my concern is not for "speed" but "investment". I really want to untether myself from my desk, and a 1.25Ghz 15in Powerbook seems like the exact beast I want. And it would be a great improvement over my iMac 800Mhz G4 (processor speed and bus speed and graphics card).

      But the issue isn't whether the G4 is good enough, or whether I need a G5. By all accounts, for what I do, the G4 is great...

      BUT - and there is always a but, right? - If I am going to drop $2500 on a high end laptop, I want it to last a good while - not be out-dated in two months... Why would I spend that much money, even on an upgraded G4? I wouldn't. We bought a 12inch 1Ghz PowerBook the day they came out - and that will be the last G4 we buy. My next purchase will be a G5 Laptop, and it would be today if Apple released it...

      Apple has great product life. My 500Mhz iMac G3 runs fabulously - and I bought it for $1100 4 years ago! I just don't want to buy an "expensive top line end of product line model" just to have the new one come out in a couple months - because even if they have another speed bump in the G4 PowerBooks - they WILL release the G5 PowerBooks this year.

    2. Re:This won't be the last notebook G4 by misterpies · · Score: 4, Funny


      >>I have no doubt a 1Ghz G4 iBook would satisfy the computing needs of a liberal arts college student.

      The computing _needs_ of a liberal arts student could be satisfied by a typewriter. The only reason a student needs a powerbook is as a babe magnet, which means they're really only necessary for geeks.

      --
      The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
    3. Re:This won't be the last notebook G4 by pvera · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you want a babe magnet, get a 12" iBook G4. Girls find it irresistible. Buy a Powerbook and all you will attract is going to be nerds. Why do you think the iBook looks like a chiclet?

      --
      Pedro
      ----
      The Insomniac Coder
    4. Re:This won't be the last notebook G4 by Slack3r78 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're assuming that the G5 is going to be significantly more expensive than the G4. We already know that IBM seels the G5 to Apple for less than they're buying G4's from Moto, so it's quite possible that G5's could be introduced into the Powerbook line without any major price hikes.

    5. Re:This won't be the last notebook G4 by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Funny

      ^ mod this guy up.

      My iBook attracts more girls than a Justin Timberlake vs Brad Pitt naked jelly wrestling contest.

      I have to fend them off with pointy sticks.

  20. iBook by valkraider · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My bet is that the next PowerBook sports a G5, while these new G4s are used in the iBooks.

    I would expect something like this:

    Powerbook G5, 2Ghz, 1.8Ghz, 1.6Ghz
    iBook G4, 1.5Ghz, 1.33Ghz, 1.1Ghz

    With the new line of iBooks having the bus speed/architecture of the current PowerBooks (essentially I would think the current Powerbooks be given the new G4, changed into a white plastic outfit, and rebadged iBook - well, basically excluding the 17inch model of course...)

  21. More embedded by msgmonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    Motorola is focusing on embedded processors these days with the MPC range of chips so they have n't turned their back on PowerPC architecture. They are just concentrating on low power, low clock speed chips.

  22. Re:Give this a miss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    > The G4 is grossly underpowered in comparison with a Centrino [...]

    Centrino is the name of the CPU, chipset, and WLAN card. The CPU is called the Pentium-M (or Banias). It's a sort of hybrid between the Tualatin P3 and the P4, taking the best features from both, with energy efficiency as one of the primary design goals. It's probably the nicest chip Intel has done in years.

  23. Re:Another Article Troll from Pudge by netglen · · Score: 4, Funny

    >> And, speaking of humour...my prof's PowerBook core dumped yesterday as he was lecturing

    Hello Basher, welcome to Nethack! You are a lawful human Knight.
    You see here a apple.
    There is an apple here;eat it? [ynq] (n)
    The apple was delicious; core dumped.

  24. Re:Another Article Troll from Pudge by Sigh+Phi · · Score: 4, Informative

    What version of MacOS was your professor using? You never just see "scrolling text" take over the GUI.

    If OS X kernel panics, the screen dims and you get a message in multiple languages saying a reboot is necessary.

    You can view crash logs with /Applications/Utilities/Console.app. Usually what you get is a dialog saying "The application -blah- has unexpectedly quit," and a log file is written to one of several convenent locations.

    Where did you get lines of scrolling text?

  25. Re:Heat Issue? by quandrum · · Score: 5, Informative

    Um, Didn't IBM just release the 970FX, which uses the the new (.09nm ?) process and significantly less watt's of power consumption, along with PowerTune, a speedstep-like technology that would further reduce power consumption?

    Why yes, yes they did. Maybe that's how they will fix the heat issue.

  26. Re:Give this a miss by brucmack · · Score: 2, Informative

    You'll noticed that he mentioned Centrino (actually the processor is the Pentium M). A 2.4 GHz machine is going to be slower than a 1.6 GHz Pentium M on certain applications, because of its short pipeline and larger cache.

  27. Re:Flamebait by mcwop · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is a second mouse button - it is labeled "Ctrl".

    --

    "I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX

  28. Re:Heat Issue? by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 4, Funny

    They solved it. Now they include an asbestos underpants with every laptop.

  29. Heat by charnov · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The 90nm G5s are already in the new Xserves. Anyone notice they had to remove one of the hard drive bays to allow for the extra airways?

    Anyways, I'll put my Athlon 64 laptop against anything Apple can put in a laptop. Escpecially dollar for dollar. And no, I know what you are thinking, it barely gets warm.

    Just think, the 35 watt Athlons 64s roll out in the next two months and it will get even better.

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
    1. Re:Heat by Sketch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sure, you can put it up against anything Apple can put on a laptop as long as it's sitting on a desk and plugged in. But how much does it weigh, and how much runtime do you get when you are actually using the machine on battery?

      --
      -- OpenVerse Visual Chat: http://openverse.com
    2. Re:Heat by iotaborg · · Score: 5, Informative

      You might want to get your facts a little straighter as the G5 consumes 24.5W@2GHz. So much for the Athalon 64@35W.

    3. Re:Heat by badasscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      laptops are meant to be portable. your average 8-9 pound 1 hour battery life monster isn't portable. it's a portable desktop. apple doesn't make portable desktops, it makes laptops.

      Ummmm.

      I'll grant you that Apple's laptops are thin and light vs. their screen sizes, but the 17" PB is a definite desktop replacement, not a laptop.

      And besides, Apple is not the only company out there making small laptops. There are so many laptops to choose from that it's honestly unfair to Apple to compare their lineup to the entirety of what's available. They make exactly two styles of laptops, both of which are cosmetically quite similar when you get down to it (one line has a different material for the case and is slightly smaller), so if you're going to play Apple vs. everybody else almost anybody could come up with examples of other brands doing either exactly what Apple's doing hardware-wise at least as well as they are, or alternatives that may take a different approach and one that some people might prefer.

  30. how to mod an article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.

    How do I mod an article as a troll?

  31. Re:Flamebait by sammy+baby · · Score: 2, Insightful
    As long as we're throwing cheap shots, as least we don't have to plug in an external device to get a second mouse button.

    Whoa! Your PC has an integral mouse? How does that work?

    Every PC I've ever used, I had to plug in an external device just to have a mouse at all, let alone a second mouse button!
  32. Re:Give this a miss by Jord · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Well this is a bunch of horseshit. The G4 runs applications perfectly well. I develop professional applications on my PowerBook all day long and there is no issue with its speed.

    I know of several people a few of which are into professional video and audio editing and they have no issues with their PowerBooks either. Hell some of them are using models from a couple of years ago.

    Comments like this are pure FUD. Yes the G5 is great, can't wait to get one in a PowerBook, but the G4 PowerBooks work very well.

    Whoever modded this as interesting needs to be flogged.

    --
    seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
  33. Re:Die shrink by jkabbe · · Score: 3, Informative

    First, IBM is using SSOI (Strained Silicon on Insulator). Second, the last statistics I saw showed a greater than 50% power consumption reduction with the new 970FX processors (die shrink and SSOI). That's promising.

  34. Ok, there's the setup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package
    Ok, our straightman has given the setup line. Punchline deliverers, please form a queue...
  35. Applications by Ann+Coulter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I doubt that we will be seeing laptops with more than 4GB of memory anytime soon. Virtual memory is slow for the kinds of applications normally used on a 64-bit system. If virtual memory is used, we might be seeing more 32-bit applications that does paging of 4GB blocks before the implementation of a 64-bit Apple laptop. I also think that most people would be running their 64-bit memory addressing applications for long spans time and I doubt that they would use a laptop for them. And as for 64-bit integer applications, I would love to have faster encryption with larger keys on my laptop but most people still use 32-bit systems and using such key sizes would be inpolite. Faster internal data transfer will be useful though. In conclusion, I think that the applications for 64-bit machines are inappropriate for laptops and there will not be much of an advantage for a 64-bit laptop.

  36. Re:Another Article Troll from Pudge by Maserati · · Score: 3, Informative

    It must have been in Verbose mode when he restarted it. That'll put lots of lines of white text on a black background on the display. Handy to see exactly what's going on at startup - but you Unix types knew that.

    --
    Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
  37. REALLY? by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Anyways, I'll put my Athlon 64 laptop against anything Apple can put in a laptop.

    OSX 10.3

  38. Re:What a troll post by Jord · · Score: 5, Informative
    Speaking of trolls, complaining about the boot time? How often do you really boot that monster? Let me guess, whenever there is a security update?

    The sleep function on Apple notebooks work so well that the ONLY time I reboot mine is for updates.

    Now if you had a windows machine I could see the complaint since putting it to sleep is rolling the dice that the sucker will come up again :)

    A sure sign that Apple is doing well is when people start to complain about the boot time because they have run out of other complaints!

    --
    seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
  39. Freon, like the old Cray's? by sharrestom · · Score: 2, Funny

    A clear housing would be cool too. But I'm not sure that I want those little plastic fish floating around in my laptop.

  40. Re:Another Article Troll from Pudge by Aardpig · · Score: 4, Insightful

    nstead of a 32bit number it can do math with 64 bit numbers. Much larger numbers. On a 32 bit processor if it has to take a number larger than 32 bit and do computations on it then the number has to be broken up into parts and math done on them.

    You couldn't be more wrong. The SSE2 instructions on Pentium 4 chipsets operate on double-precision (i.e., 64-bit) floating-point numbers (actually, they work internally with something like 80 bits, but that's more or less invisible). In no way, therefore, is a double-precision multiply "broken up into parts".

    The reason why Pentium 4 systems are 32-bit is comes down to their memory addressing, and the size of their "default" integers. I think you'll find that integers are not used much in numerical modelling, apart from as array and loop indices. What was your point again?

    --
    Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
  41. Re:Die shrink by charnov · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, I had a whole response typed upped but I went and read up on the 970FX on IBMs site and you are indeed correct. They got around the problems of leakage of strained silicon by combining SOI and SS. Pretty cool...literally. They also will be using IBMS voltage island techniques to reduce power (that's the real reason you will be seeing power use decreases, not the die shrink. SOI and SS both have issues as you get smaller. AMD and IBM will be completely combined in process tech starting at 65nm at AMDs new plant that is being built in Dresden and at the East Fiskill plant where the FX will be produced).

    The prime benefits of the combined SOI and SS is that you get the ability to run with less power at the same frequency from SS but the SOI keeps the leakage characteristics of SS from generating ridiculous heat (look at Prescott).

    It is going to be interesting.

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
  42. Use Sleep by DarkAurora · · Score: 4, Informative

    Use the sleep functionality on your laptop. No OS's boot time can beat OSX's wake from sleep time.

    I personally never actually power off my laptop, except for when I need to apply a security update.

  43. Re:What a troll post by bombadillo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ever notice that if you boot up XP and imediately log in you will not have an IP address? I am not sure if this is a default setting. I think MS did this to make the boot times appear faster. Usually , the first thing I do after booting up a computer is open up a browser. I don't think you can consider any computer today as fully booted until the TCP/IP stack is fully operational.

  44. Re:Flamebait by rigmort · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Watch a proficient Mac user work. You'll notice that the left hand is on the keyboard at all times, copying, pasting, opening, closing, undoing, answering dialogue boxes, AND CTRL-CLICKING to get contextual menus. It's a different way of working; not necessarily better or worse. For me, it feels right.

    Besides, my right-click is reserved for Expose.

  45. Now at the risk of sounding like a troll by FS1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lets take a reasonable fair look at both sides. I myself am slightly biased against macs because i don't seem to be compatible with them but that is another story. Many people are saying that the G5 "Rules" cause it is a 64 bit chip, and granted it is. There are also the AMD fanboys myself included that say, "hey we had the first desktop 64bit processor and ours kicks your G5 to the curb." Also there are the intel automatons that say, "man apple computers sucks man they can't touch the P4/XEON performace wise." Which depending on the facts given, any one of these could be seen as correct (most likely not the last one). Then there are those who say, "that apples are the best because we have a unix based OS that is sooo user friendly." The PC (L)users like myself say, "there are more applications and games written for our OS, you will be assimilated." Last but not least, there are the linux-geeks who say, "we have the best of both worlds we have a unix-like OS that is completely reconfigurable and runs some windows apps if we want it to and has a community of geeks behind it, so our OS is l337." Which there are major facts and opinions that support any of these claims, minus the assimilation part, and either way you look at there are tradeoffs for the OS you use. Then there are the benchmarkers who say, "Look at this G5/Opteron/P4 it totally outscores the others, in my totally unrealistic and unrepeatable and highly illogical benchmarking procedure." Also there are benchmarkers that listen to the whiners and try to compare the apples to oranges to watermelons to pear to peaches over and over again, and are flamed cause the G5/Opteron/P4 was the winner and it is against their "religion." The trouble with 64bit computering is you need 64bit everything in order to reap the maximum reward. Not every app on every platform has the exact same coding and drivers and hardware supporting it. There are going to be differences and they will vary widely. From what i have discerned from all this inane babble is that the G5 is indeed a worthly processor and people do like the OS that supports it (i do not). Also the opteron/Athlon 64 chip is indeed just as fast if not faster (code permitting) than the G5, the crown passing between the 2 based on what your running and how optomized it is. But that leaves us with the poor old P4/Xeon, which even though it has a 1-2Ghz lead on its competitors, is just competing with them. This is my opinion and i base it all the stuff i have read on the issues. Show me an unbiased review, ha you ain't going to find one, and i might change my mind. To sum this up people need to stop listening to what they are told, if they won't actually hear what people are saying.

    --
    A Fatal OE Exception has occurred, Sig will now reboot.
  46. Re:Watercool by MouseR · · Score: 3, Informative

    PowerBooks are already cooled by heat collectors and gaz pipes, wich is far more efficient at moving heat than by using a heat-generating water pump.

  47. Moto makes the G4 Apple uses by johnpaul191 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    IBM may make G4 chips, but the ones in Apple hardware are still Moto. IBM makes the G3s (not still used), and supposedly has an Altivec-enabled G3 out or coming....

    There was a statement a few months back made by Phil Schiller (i think it was him?) that Apple still has a future with Moto processors for a while.

    At some point Apple's hardware will eventually all go to G5/G6/whatever made by IBM, but it's going to be a while i think. In addition i think there are other Moto chips in Apple hardware besides the processor (sorry, don't feel like popping the case right now to check).


    There are some good resources online explaining the relationship between Apple, IBM and Moto and the design and manufacturing of the PPC chips. I'm on crappy dialup, so i can't find them right now.
    I know IBM was making the last G3s Apple used... which i guess were in the iBooks? I am 99.999% sure every Apple sold G4 chip was Mote, and IBM could sell them for other uses, including upgrades. the G4 upgrade in my G4 tower is a Moto chip though and i just got that a few months ago. actually offhand the people i asked with G4 upgrades all have Moto chips in them... so if IBM makes G4s that work in Mac hardware, i am not sure who uses it? I am not sure what YellowDog hardware was using for their G4s (could not run Mac OS 9 or OS X).

    1. Re:Moto makes the G4 Apple uses by beelsebob · · Score: 2, Informative

      IBM actually don't make a single G4 chip - the G5 was the first chip they rolled out with AltiVec, and there's a much rummored G3 with AltiVec that apple will probably call a G4. Bob

  48. What about liquid cooled ? by bmajik · · Score: 4, Funny

    I mean.. lets say it didn't _have_ to be water..

    i dont know about you but it seems like i've always got more extra "coolant" that my body is urging me to get rid of.. and this laptop is running to hot... and it's already sitting in my lap..

    if some sort of interface were made to allow for human releif and laptop cooling... the problem could be solved.

    (and there may be a spin-off use for this .. interface)

    --
    My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  49. stupid me forgot to insert line breaks by FS1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    man it has been a while, ok to fix it should say:

    Lets take a reasonable fair look at both sides. I myself am slightly biased against macs because i don't seem to be compatible with them but that is another story.

    Many people are saying that the G5 "Rules" cause it is a 64 bit chip, and granted it is. There are also the AMD fanboys myself included that say, "hey we had the first desktop 64bit processor and ours kicks your G5 to the curb." Also there are the intel automatons that say, "man apple computers sucks man they can't touch the P4/XEON performace wise." Which depending on the facts given, any one of these could be seen as correct (most likely not the last one).

    Then there are those who say, "that apples are the best because we have a unix based OS that is sooo user friendly." The PC (L)users like myself say, "there are more applications and games written for our OS, you will be assimilated." Last but not least, there are the linux-geeks who say, "we have the best of both worlds we have a unix-like OS that is completely reconfigurable and runs some windows apps if we want it to and has a community of geeks behind it, so our OS is l337." Which there are major facts and opinions that support any of these claims, minus the assimilation part, and either way you look at there are tradeoffs for the OS you use.

    Then there are the benchmarkers who say, "Look at this G5/Opteron/P4 it totally outscores the others, in my totally unrealistic and unrepeatable and highly illogical benchmarking procedure." Also there are benchmarkers that listen to the whiners and try to compare the apples to oranges to watermelons to pear to peaches over and over again, and are flamed cause the G5/Opteron/P4 was the winner and it is against their "religion."

    The trouble with 64bit computering is you need 64bit everything in order to reap the maximum reward. Not every app on every platform has the exact same coding and drivers and hardware supporting it. There are going to be differences and they will vary widely.

    From what i have discerned from all this inane babble is that the G5 is indeed a worthly processor and people do like the OS that supports it (i do not). Also the opteron/Athlon 64 chip is indeed just as fast if not faster (code permitting) than the G5, the crown passing between the 2 based on what your running and how optomized it is. But that leaves us with the poor old P4/Xeon, which even though it has a 1-2Ghz lead on its competitors, is just competing with them. This is my opinion and i base it all the stuff i have read on the issues. Show me an unbiased review, ha you ain't going to find one, and i might change my mind.

    To sum this up people need to stop listening to what they are told, if they won't actually hear what people are saying.

    --
    A Fatal OE Exception has occurred, Sig will now reboot.
  50. On a related note....... by Ride-My-Rocket · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.

    I'll be sure to think about what you said -- and then laugh -- while I'm playing Half-Life 2.

    1. Re:On a related note....... by li99sh79 · · Score: 3, Funny
      I'll be sure to think about what you said -- and then laugh -- while I'm playing Half-Life 2.

      I guess the question then becomes which will we see first, HL2 or a G5 Powerbook?

      -sam

      --
      I was just here, where did I go?
  51. Stirring Up Trouble by APDent · · Score: 2

    It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.

    So one of those G5s is more powerful than the dual 2.8GHz Xeon machine in this non-current PC tower, here? Truly, I'm curious (and only tangentially trying to stir up trouble).

  52. Laptop performance by guacamole · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I must say that the improvements in the speed of Apple portables have been really pathetic during all recent years. Consider this example.. almost two and a half years ago I bought an iBook with a 600MHz G3 processor. Honestly, I felt the performance was barely adequate and I decided to replace it eventually, maybe in about three years. But today, for about the same price, you can buy an iBook with an 800MHz G4 (and all other components slightly beefed up). The speed improvement is barely noticeable. In the same time frame the PC portables have improved by a whole lot more, not to mention, I wouldn't have had this performance anxiety if I bought something like an R-series IBM Thinkpad with +1GHz mobile pentium 3 for about the same price back then to begin with)..

    If Apple doesn't come up within a year with an iBook replacement that has at least 1.5GHz or so CPU, I'll probably just switch to PC laptops.

  53. misguided thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The G5 is faster per clock than the G4

    So, why not a 1.5 GHz G5 laptop? It would be even cooler than the G4.

  54. Re:Flamebait by bluGill · · Score: 2

    really? Been a long time since I've seen a laptop PC without a mouse. Come to think of it, the only laptop PC I've seen without a mouse (type device) really was a laptop, and not a notebook, which is technically the proper term for what everyone calls a laptop today. (Those old laptops weren't worth much... 286, blue LCD. Dos only)

    Of course if you really want to be that technical I've never seen a notebook with a mouse. Trackballs, trackpads, and trackpoints are/were common, but no actual mice.

  55. Re:Flamebait by Espectr0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just THINK for a minute.

    What is easier and more intuitive? To RIGHT CLICK using a mouse, or to right click using a KEYBOARD?

    Clicking belongs to the mouse. Using the keyboard makes it all more confusing.

    Face it, a two button mouse will always be better than one button mouse.

    Having said that, i switched my laptop to a powerbook just to have OSX, and i love it. But the one button mouse is a joke

    --
    Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
  56. So full of crap! by MarcQuadra · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That is SO full of crap. The G5 consumes under 50 watts at 2GHz, less than a Pentium4, I don't see 2GHz P4 laptops needing water cooling. The reason the G5 is _PERCIEVED_ as a hot chip is that Mac users are used to the 'good ole' days' when their CPUs only sucked 5-15 watts, we've STILL got quite a lead on you x86 folks. My Athlon XP 2500+ puts out 78 watts at 1.8GHz.

    The G4 and G5 both produce WAY less heat then their x86 counterparts, but Apple uses GIANT heatsinks so they can run their fans at very low RPMs.

    Get a grip on reality. The 'hot lap' G4 latops are still cooler than PCs of comparable clock speed, from my own experience. Mac users have just been spoiled by the 68K and G3 series, which were passively cooled (read: no fan. at all.).

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  57. Re:Give this a miss by pHDNgell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My two powerbooks have 60GB of disk each. That's more than enough space for editing a couple of hours of video in Final Cut Pro 4 using OfflineRT.

    That's more of a hobby for me, though. I'm a software developer by trade. I do mostly large server work (I'm a UNIX guy), but I develop desktop apps as well. Then again, the desktop apps are mostly hobby work as well...stuff like video delivery systems and monitoring apps.

    I realize the post I'm responding to is a troll who can't even be bothered to see that the smallest hard drive Apple even sells in a powerbook is 40GB, and that's only in a 12" where nobody does video editing anyway.

    --
    -- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
  58. Re:Flamebait by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every laptop PC I've ever seen has had a second mouse button that is completely broken by design.

    It is impossible to conveniently use the second mouse button on a trackpad. There is no good way to do it. With a mouse, obviously, you can put your index finger on the left button and your middle finger on the right button, and it's totally effortless to click, or click and drag with either finger. I cannot defend Apple's regular mice except to say that they look cooler. And that they are forced to use them because of their OS's focus on laptops.

    But advocating a PC trackpad? Are you kidding? I'd *rather* be forced to use it with two hands (like with the control key), but unfortunately two handed operation is also impossible. I usually have to use my ring finger if I want to right-click-drag.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  59. waitt a minute! by Chuck+Bucket · · Score: 2, Funny

    why does this story have a G5 icon, if it's about G4s! I smell a bait and switch in progress...

    CB

    --
    free ipod and free gmail!
  60. Laps by Goo.cc · · Score: 2, Informative

    "...Oh, and I don't want to burn my lap. "

    That is why no one calls them "laptops" anymore. Most companies either call them portables or notebooks.

  61. Re:What a troll post by Zelet · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is a small bug that is in 10.3 that tries to reference a file that doesn't exist.

    is a fix. This will make OS X boot as fast as Linux and Win2000.

    --
    ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
  62. Re:Flamebait by Bazzargh · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's easy to ctrl-click with one hand - hold down ctrl with your left hand, and bang your head repeatedly on the mouse button.

    As a fairly recent switcher too, I bought Warcraft III with the powerbook so I could get into the way of the one button mouse with some fun rather than frustrated attempts at work. Its pretty much second nature now. One thing you notice is that you don't need to right click much anyway - OS X doesn't emphasise context menus as much as Windows.

    Clicking belongs to the mouse. Using the keyboard makes it all more confusing.
    Face it, a two button mouse will always be better than one button mouse.

    Under windows I use a 5 button MS optical trackball, with a scrollwheel. I have them mapped to Escape, Meta, Alt, Control, and Shift[1]. Because none of those belong on a keyboard ;)

    -Baz

    [1] In case you're wondering, the scrollwheel adjusts the strength on the coffee machine. I installed a ratchet so it only turns one way.

  63. Underpowered? by Amigori · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I see alot of posts here saying that the iBook and Powerbooks are underpowered. I guess it all depends on what you use it for. Last fall, I bought the new 12" PB 1Ghz/512Mb/AirportExtreme/Bluetooth/DVD-R, and there wasn't anything close from Dell or Gateway in terms of size, performance, and features. Anyways...

    The people yelling "Underpowered!" are probably game freaks with lots of disposable income who completely rebuild their PC every 6-9 months. I'm not sorry that school is taking all of my money and I can only afford to upgrade every 2-3 years. Besides, 30 fps gains when your already above 200 fps really isn't necessary. The new UT2004 Demo runs just fine on my PB. I'm sure if you tried the PC version on a similarly spec'd PC (1Ghz AMD/512Mb/32Mb nVidia 5200FX) it wouldn't run near as fast. And I'm sure those playing on a Centrino laptop will find that UT2004 will definitely drain your battery in less than 4 hours. Probably closer to 1-1.5 hours and a much lower framerate due to the integrated Intel Graphics on many of those laptops.

    People, its all about selecting the best product for your needs. Apple's laptops primary target market is NOT gamers, overclockers, or anyone whose on a Ghz rulz powertrip. Its much closer to people who just want their computer to work extremely well and are simple to use and not have to f* around with drivers for 2 hours just to get the damned thing to boot right.

    I'm not even sure I should bother with this argument because everytime we get an thread on Apple hardware, I see the same "Underpowered!" and "Too expensive!" posts. And the people who make these arguments just don't understand what Apple, as a business, is trying to do. Make a profit, and build a computer that's easy to use.

    Just a few thoughts...
    Amigori

    --
    "The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
  64. Re:iBook performance by Anm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why did you buy an iBook if performance is a concern? The cache and higher memory limit of the PowerBook line make a world of difference.

    Anm

  65. Arrogant Americans by blixel · · Score: 3, Funny

    a little competition from Motorola can only be good for us consumers!

    What about non us consumers? You self centered americans are always thinking about yourselves.

  66. Again, the Megahertz Myth rears it's head. by gaudior · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not to mention completely ignoring the substantial differences between the G4 and the G3.
    I have an iBook 700, which has continued to get faster with each new OS release. The only real limiting factor for me now is the hard drive size. I'm contemplating a DIY upgrade of the hard drive, as soon as my Applecare runs out.

    By contrast, my desktop machine is a Beige G3, with a 400mhz G4 upgrade. That machine seems faster than my laptop, and it probably is, using benchmarks.

  67. Re:Actually, the G4 could have a long life... by SiliconJesus101 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Uhh, dunno where you got this nugget of information from but the newer G4 systems are DDR based.

    --

    "The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
    -Thucydides

  68. Re:Watercool by Slack3r78 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somebody please mod this disinformation down. There are no 'heat dissipation issues' with regards to the G5. Yes, Apple does use a heatsink that's about 5" tall and a ton of fans in the G5 tower, but that's done to keep noise down, but because it's running scorchingly hot. I got to thoroughly check out a Dual 2.0GHz G5 at a LAN party last weekend, and the machine is near silent under normal use. I can't say that about my Athlon or the P4's I use at school.

    If you're still not satisfied that's the reason, pull the side cover off a G5, then pull off the plastic panel that seperates the different airflow compartments - the computer will sense that the panel's been removed, thus disrupting the airflow and kick all the fans into high speed. You'll suddenly have the machine go from being near silent to about as loud as you'd expect a PC to be.

    The G5 towers are amazingly well engineered machines, and it's really getting tiring to hear people mistake Apple's emphasis on quiet computing (extremely well executed) be mistaken for a non-existant heat problem.

  69. Re:Applications (64-bit laptops) by badasscat · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, you can buy 64-bit laptops today. They're just not x86 or Mac/PPC based.

    No?

    It's ugly and I wouldn't buy one, but yes, there are 64 bit x86 laptops out there, on the market, right now. And they're not expensive at all.

  70. Re:Another Article Troll from Pudge by Aardpig · · Score: 2, Informative

    Aaaaactually, there is a grain of truth there. For integers and fixed point calcs, true, there will be no difference in precision between 32 and 64 bit procs, just a difference in the actual range of numbers that can be dealt with.

    But we are discussing 32-bit vs 64-bit chips. To claim that a 32-bit chip can't do 64-bit arithmetic is peverse. And to claim that Intel 32-bit chips can't handle 64-bit arithmetic natively is just plain wrong.

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    Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
  71. Re:Actually, the G4 could have a long life... by Datafage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It takes DDR RAM but the doubled bandwidth goes unused, as the G4 has limited memory bandwidth regardless of the bandwidth capacity of the RAM controller and RAM itself.

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    Nicotine free Amish .sig.

  72. Re:Upgrade cards by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Informative

    Figure once IBM has their strained silicon process down, temperatures will drop. I imagine that's what Apple's waiting for, for their laptops.

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    I drank what? -- Socrates
  73. Re:Actually, the G4 could have a long life... by SiliconJesus101 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Ahh, I guess this is coming:

    "According to Motorola sources, a tweaked version of the Apollo 7450 G4, the 7470, will be ready for volume production shortly after the end of Q2, in time for a summer ramp. The 7470 will be manufactured on a 0.13 micron process, allowing for a smaller die size with room for 512K of L2 cache, and support up to 4MB of DDR-SDRAM L3 cache. The 7470 supports a modified bus protocol, MPX+, which supports double data transfer and which should effectively run at 266Mhz according to sources."

    as taken from http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/24018.html

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    "The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
    -Thucydides

  74. Amen by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyway, any self-respecting MacGeek knows that you can predict Apple's product release schedule about as well as you can predict the moods of a pregnant woman.

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    That was classic intercourse!
  75. Water Cooling... by kiwioddBall · · Score: 2, Informative

    A G5 Apple Powerbook would mean my switch to Apple from x86 based machines - owning an iPod has pushed me part way.

    I think Apple would be wise to go straight to a Powerbook G5 to catch the momentum that the Apple brand currently has. A so-so G4 update would not capture the imagination.

    Lets hope that Apples rumoured current experimentation with water cooling bears fruit.

  76. sigh, only on slashdot... by juuri · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... would a comment based in such ignorance get modded up. You do realize that different CPUs need differing amounts of cache to achieve the same net effect, right?

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    --- I do not moderate.
  77. Oh, please by Temsi · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.

    How do I mod an original post as Flamebait?

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    -- This sig for rent.
  78. Mac Reviewers... by letdownjournals · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower.

    I'm a Mac user. I love Macs. But I have to ask, why does the Mac press have to be so &$#% smug? Come on, guys, you're giving the rest of us a bad name.

  79. My bet on the next refresh... by barfy · · Score: 2, Informative
    The next refresh is NOT going to be a G5. The basic reason is 64 bit traces. This is *not* trivial to do and meet the other design goals of the Powerbook. Portability and Battery life are two of the most important design goals of the PB and IB lines. Apple does not offer "desktop" replacement laptops (where weight and power requirements are not as important, as they mostly sit at a desk, and are plugged in).

    This is not quite the same as the Athlon 64 or Opteron notebooks. They are Mainly used in LARGE, HEAVY laptops. And the Athlon 64 and Opteron are generally not currently purchased because they are 64 bits, it is because they are kick-ass I86-32 processors, that also do 64 bits.

    So... This is what I would expect... Current PB parts moved down to the IB line, with less l2 cache. Artificially slower machines, but much faster than currently. They are going to be forced to bump the ibooks more, because of GarageBand. It just barely runs and there is too much lantency on an Ibookg4 800. The Low-end Ibook owner and a typical garage band user are going to intersect too much to not serve them better on this box.

    I would also expect the Ibook to support a SuperDrive. Prices have fallen significantly enough to provide this and still maintain a good profit margin.

    I would expect the ports and graphic parts to remain the same (but maybe a bump in the graphics part, but probably not).

    The PB to get ~ 20 to 30% speed bump across the line. Remaining g4 (see reason above).

    Same ports. Top of the line ATI mobility chips. To speed up Quartz Extreme, and provide better game playabilty.

    Faster Hard Drives.

    More Memory (512 and 1 G will be standard models)

    Finally, the second shoe of the HP deal will drop, and enabled superdrives. With updated Idvd and Itunes for creating lables for your dvds.

    These are two compelling upgrades, that should see significant performance improvement across the lines. Maintain profit and Price points. The Lightscribe enhancment gives a decent and exciting marketing message...

    And then you can wait about 6 more monthes for the engineering challenges of making a true apple powerbook g5.

  80. Prototype G5 Powerbook by rwurth · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think that this guy had a prototype G5 Powerbook

  81. Re:Flamebait by TheLittleJetson · · Score: 3, Informative

    we don't have to plug in an external device to get a second mouse button.

    not like you truly care, but this is a GREAT piece of software. check out sidetrack -- my left mouse button is touch-pad tap, my right-mouse button is the physical button. took about 2 hours to get used to, but is a godsend for one-handed REAL mousing. :-)