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Just What is a Custom Configured Server?
djhanson wonders: "I just got back from a small claims court proceeding against Apple Computer. They successfully won their argument in front of the court that selecting additional memory and disk drives for a computer/server at the time of purchase, off of their website, constitutes a 'custom configured computer built to the customer's specifications'. Said computer is therefore not eligible under the company policy to be returned. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? As near as I can tell, Apple is the only company that has such a restrictive policy. I called both IBM and HP, and neither of those companies has such a policy. Am I the only one that thinks there is something terribly wrong with a policy like this?
Any opinions? Suggestions? Comments? Whatever?"
Horrific policy...makes me a bit ashmed of the iMac I'm typing this on.
I'm a fan of Apple designs, but I really hope they stay a niche in the market. If Apple ever overruns Redmond, we'll all look back on Microsoft as comparatively benevolent.
-Jerald Hams
"...refusing to support it when they have done the assembly is disgraceful"
where does it say that they aren't supporting the machine? all that was said is Apple won't accept "customized" orders as returns. it's actually perfectly understandable. when you "customize" a system, such as a different size hard drive, more ram, dvd burner, etc, it would be hard to sell the machine to someone else. who's to say someone else would want the same exact options? as for 'removing' the customizations, how would you like being sold something as new but was actually taken from a returned 'customized' item. those customized items can no longer be sold as new. they would have to take a percentage off every part they sold you in your customized form and that would be a big hassle for both parties.
What other company that anyone knows of throws a beer bash with live bands and free beer for its employees?
Apple treats their employees great. if you dissagree, your one of those "the grass is greener in the desert because the internet told me so" people.
Personally, I think Apple offers 'custom configurations' because some customers want it and it sort of looks stupid not to offer it. Apple goes out of it's way to insure that their prices on RAM and extra hard drives (about the only two items you can 'configure' your system with) are way out of line with what's available on the open market. The fact of the matter is that Apple's margins on these components are extremely low and the resources required to pull a machine off the shelf at the warehouse, have an employee put the components in, repackage the whole thing and ship it are not worth it for Apple.
I think Apple really wishes customers would simply go out (or online) and procure a bigger hard drive or more RAM themselves. They go out of their way to provide instructions for installing these components and it really isn't that hard to do. Besides, it's far less expensive for the customer in the end, and you don't need to wait an extra week for the computer to be shipped by Apple...
I must be missing something here. You bought a new computer, paid for the computer, took delivery of the computer, then later changed your mind and decided you don't want the computer. Why on earth would you expect them to give you your money back?
If the computer was damaged or malfunctioning, Apple have a warranty program that covers that, they'll repair or replace the computer at no charge to you. They even pay for the shipping.
Come on people, this isn't an abuse of consumer rights, it's an abuse of the court system because some guy couldn't make up his mind about what he wanted.
Sorry that you came off worse in this instance, but...
1. If you didn't want the machine, why did you order it?
2. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but their definition of a 'custom configured computer built to the customer's specifications' seems perfectly reasonable to me.
3. It seems reasonable for Apple not to want to take back a machine that was built to your specification -- hopefully they made you aware of this at the time of buying, but since you went to court, I guess this isn't so. I assume the machine worked -- I'd be dissapointed if they didn't accept a returned faulty machine.
"The noble art of losing face will one day save the human race"---Hans Blix
Got any other anecdotes we can use to bash "The Man" who still seems to just "keep us down?"
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
That text is for "if you are not satisfied".
The poster doesn't mention whether the return is because of an unfit product, or just changed his mind.
I suspect the latter, and you can see Apple's point. He gets it and doesn't like it, sends it back, and they have to pull out the RAM, extra HDs - a giant pain in the arse. Why should they?
If it was broken on the other hand and they refuse to take it back, I'd have an issue, but I'm sure there are consumer laws in the US to protect the consumer from manufacturers selling unfit goods.
Remember, it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 4 to pull the trigger of a sniper rifle.
I have probably bought more than 200 hundred Macintoshes over the last 15+ years, direct from stores, from Apple, and from distributors, many for personal use, some part of business projects. In nearly every case, it was either explicitly or implicitly understood that "modifications" to the stock machine (modem cards, video cards, RAM, drives, etc.) were my responsibility; most of the time, it was clear that warranty issues were my headache with the manufacturer, and the seller was not going to handle them, let alone returns.
Apple's customizing, with warranty support, is a blessing for those who don't want to or know how to open the box and insert cards, etc.
As far as returns: in my experience, returning unwanted (as opposed to defective) components or machines can usually be done, regardless of the policy, if you handle the request diplomatically and demonstrate that you are a good and longstanding customer. I doubt small claims court accomplishes that.
The policy only makes sense if Appls's customers are coming back and returning their systems en masse. Otherwise, a return policy is what it is. If you're going to stand by your products, do it. If not, don't. This seems to me like a slimey way out of a guarantee. Other manucafturers take their "custom" systems back -- I believe that they're sold as refurbished or open-box.
-Turkey
LOL, you ordered from the web front, then decided to buy from the store front out of the blue, and you think THATS a legitimate reason for a return? Come on man.
I would hardly call it being "screwed." If they were screwing him, he would've won in small claims court because there would have be no legit reason for Apple not to accept the return. Maybe he screwed himself...
Why is it that people seem to think Apple's written policies simply do not apply to them? And if people act this way with other companies, why does it only seem to be newsworthy when Apple is involved?
First we've got the iPod retards, who apparently think there are at least eighteen months in a year. I mean, why else would they act like Apple owes them something under the terms of a one-year warranty when their battery dies eighteen months after purchase? Are they traveling at the speed of light? Do they use the Martian calendar? Who knows? They also seem to think that Apple told them the battery would never die, but that's another rant.
Now we've got this other tool posting his whine about not being allowed to return a customized machine. The link to Apple's written policy on that is only on the bottom of every page generated by the Apple Store web site, so it's easy to see how he failed to see it. So now he's trying to raise a public stink in the hopes Apple will make an exception for him to quash the bad publicity he's trying to generate.
These people who flagrantly ignore written policies and then get indignant about it must be the same type of people who park their hulking SUVs in spaces marked "Compact Only." I think the next time I see one of those, I'll key it to demonstrate my contempt.
~Philly
You are lucky you live in the US where the laws allow idiot consumers taht spend too much money to simply change their mind and return used products. This is most especially true with cars when if you want a custom order from the factory that might not have good resale value if you return it, you have to jump through hoops to convince a dealer to do it.
If you had your order shipped to you, as you must have, you probably ordered it over the internet, correct? You will have then paid with a credit card. Both MasterCard and AmericanExpress (and others, I'm sure) guarentee items you purchase with your card. They state that if the merchant you bought something from won't take it back, they will. You might wanna give them a call to find out the details as they apply to your card.
Good luck!
IANAL, but I happen to have one on staff. Major corporations, like Apple, almost never appear in small claims. They will either try to have the case moved to a higher court (a slow and expensive process, because it almost always requires that the consumer hire a lawyer), or they will simply not show up and pay whatever fine (the max is usually $5,000) the judge throws at them. Corporate lawyers are expensive. At the rate Apple has to pay its lawyers, it just doesn't make sense for them to show up in court.
-Shylock
Statistically speaking, there's a 99.998% chance that my IQ is higher than yours. Get over it.
When I received my order of Logitech Z680 5.1 Speakers from Apple, they were DOA. Apple wouldn't refund or exchange my order (as stated in their return policy), so I had to go through the manufacturer. And we all know how fun that is!
Wouldn't Apple be legally obliged to exchange the item or offer a refund? You paid for a set speakers, you got a doorstop. End of story.
For consumers in the UK at least, the contract exists between the customer and the trader - the manufacturer doesn't figure into it at all (Sale Of Goods Act). It is up to the trader to sort out any problems with the goods - not the customer. That said, many high street electrical stores will insist that the customer contacts the manufacturer for repair as many consumers are unaware of the rights they have.
I'd find it hard to imagine that this isn't the case in the US too.
Allergy advice: Contains eggs.
Maybe you can engrave it like somone suggested they could do with the Va. Tech G5's and get mo money.
My dispute is: Does selecting additional memory or disk drives really constitute a product that is "custom configured to your specifications". According to the defense that Apple used, even adding one stick of memory would have made it custom configured.
... that means someone has to crack open the box, unpack the machine, crack the server open, and manually do stuff to it to make it the way you asked for it... uncrack the server, and repack the box, uncrack the shipping box, and then send it to you. If you wanted a stock server, it would have gone from the assembly line to your door, most likely. Sorry your experience was not the one you were expecting.
These servers are largely manufactured by machines, at a pretty fast pace. Humans are part of the process, but at a minimal level.. it's how prices can be kept down to a reasonable level. You know how this goes. When you want to upgrade the machine... Configure To Order / Build To Order
I make these: http://beatseqr.com
Well, are the specs of the computer you purchased different from the standard specs? Did you personally specify them? The answer is yes to both questions, so you did indeed order a product "custom configured to your specifications". I would side with Apple on this one, but whether this non-return policy is a good way to keep customers is another story.
In court someone brought up the analogy of buying a car. My response to that was, if I am buying a brand new car off the lot, and I ask for an automatic transmission (which usually costs more), I still have a stock car.Your version of this analogy does not match what you did. For example, when you go to Apple's website and shop for an Xserve, you can buy either a single- or dual-processor model. This is analagous to going to a car dealer and selecting either the manual or automatic transmission version of a car. In either case, the dealer has the model already in stock; all they have to do is pull it out of inventory and give it to you. However, when you asked Apple to give you a different amount of memory and disk space, and then asked them to take it back, you were having them do more work because they may have to take out the memory and disk drive -- not everyone is going to want the same specs you did. A closer analogy here is more like having the car dealer put deluxe all-weather tires on your car. When you return them, the dealer may have to remove them in order to sell that car again.
Trevor
I think your last line summed it up nicely, "But, I have learned my lesson, and from now on I will be calling and verifying such assumptions before I make a purchase."
Contrary to some of the others assailing you for making a false set of assumptions, I can clearly see your point of view. A customer-oriented company would take your experience into account and design their storefront to make it more clear what the return policy is for a particular piece of equipment. For example, a reminder of their policy on the order confirmation page would be very suitable.
Here's a question for you-- what are you doing with the XServe now?
If your entire living is dependant on your computer and you don't have at least 1 extra computer and all of your files backed up, then you are very very foolish indeed. You could easily and legitimatly write off an extra computer as a buisiness expense. Also, what took a month to be serviced for your computer? The one time I had a problem Apple paid to have my computer overnighted both ways and I had it back within 4 days (including sunday).
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
oh and BTW it had memory and a airport card added by me, if you look at their website your allowed to add these things, it even has a section for user installed parts. Custom orders are getting a superdrive in a computer that doesnt normally have it, in which case its very understandable why they wont take it back... what the hell are they going to do with it once it gets there, cant resell it as new, take too long to pull the superdrive out of it. A very fair policy IMHO
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
The thing that you have to realize when using OS X server, is NOT to fight the native tools. Don't use WebMin to reboot an XServe remotely, use Apple's server admin tool. Why? Because WebMin isn't designed to administer OS X Server machines, and Server Admin is.
This is the biggest stumbling block that old-time UNIX weenies will have with Macs in the next few years. On the mac, DO NOT pop a terminal window and start editing the config files by hand unless you know what you're doing. I know that you like doing it that way on other UNIX/UNIX-like systems, but that's because the GUI admin tools for those systems are seriously lame, as a rule.
Note that knowing how to do a similar operation on Solaris or Linux is NOT the same thing as knowing what you're doing on the Mac. If you insist on treating it like a generic UNIX box, you're just going to fuck it up.