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DIY HVAC
An anonymous reader writes "I found this very interesting project called DIY Zoning. It allows one to add air flow balancing, temperature control, zoning, home automation, and more to an existing or new HVAC system. After getting a $200 electric bill, this sounds like a good solution for those who are getting screwed with outrageously high electric bills due to their HVAC unit especially since organizations like TVA have raised the electric rates."
DIY Zoning is just one in a family of projects.
Don't forget about Haywire, Jukebox, and ServoMaster, all of which are hosted at SourceForge and directly tie-in to the temperature zoning system featured in this Slashdot posting.
[Oh, and FWIW, Professor Tkachenko's son is a cutie (an old college friend of mine knew him)!]
Background: 28/M/Bi-Sexual; Owner of a Linux company; MBA Harvard 2003; B.S. Comp Sci MIT 2000
for non-eXtreme geeks like myself, HVAC stands for Heating, Ventilation, & Air Conditioning.
Not that it would matter to you if you are working on it by yourself, but without support for the technologies that the spec requires going forward, you face the unenviable position of being stuck with some out of date specs.
I have been pwned because my
Put the real thermostat somewhere hidden and place a dummy one in the hall for the wife and kids.
Putting a circuit in to turn off the AC when someone opens a window helps too.
Beep beep.
Would there be anything wrong with using your shower water as toilet water? I honestly can't see anything wrong with that and it'd certainly cut down on somebody's water bill from month to month.
Is going on a lot here where I live. Berea College has completely rebuilt many of their buildings to make them more environmentally friendly, and to cut down on their "outrageous energy costs". Not to mention that Berea College owns all the utilities here anyways.
;).
I really don't get why this kind of project is really worthy of doing anyways. May save some money, but most people's houses dont use more than 1500 kWa of electricity a month... ~140$ of electricty around here (considering we pay the "Berea College Utilities" tax). Now a worthy project would be covering your house with solar panels and breaking even on your utility bills
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
This is why I only use solar energy!
Ack, gotta go, a cloud's coming!
Complaining about TVA rates? Haha... You are getting some of the cheapest, subsidized electricity in the country.
Read this:
http://www.nemw.org/tvareport.htm
Does anyone remember way back in the BBS days of the early 90s (when the net was new or undiscovered for so many) when HVAC meant "hacking, virii, anarchy, cracking"?
/.
What a weird yet fitting title to see on
As an ex plumber-pipefitter, zoning is a must for any eficient system.
,it is looks like a full blown commercial install, When I was out of town once the boiler went out (flooded expansion tank) so my wife called the company I worked for, my friend glen cam out and said , "uhhh youre gonna have to call in a commercial outfit were all residential and Ive never seen a system like this before Chris (me usually handles all our commercial stuff"
Take this house for example, 2000 sq ft 2 story farmhouse, 1950's anderson windows, still nice but not real tight, no in wall insulation, attic is aesbestos (but now sealed)
The house is set up into 3 zones, on an old , circa 1950 American Standard electro-mechanical zone system, it is hot water heat, about half baseboard, the other half cast radiators, the heat throught the hose is awesome, never too cold anywhere. Now, the fun part, we dont have gas, and electric was way too ineffecient to heat this house soooo, my grandfather a pipefitter as well installed the system back in the 50's
The wind up of all this , my heating bill for the entire year ? Under $600 Thats 350 gallons of oil, I only took 310 or so after 13 months last time I topped off. And I live near Cleveland Ohio (Akron), not exactly warm winters here ya know
It's quite simple, really.
:)
/. readership are bachelor males. Of course, a fantasy alternative would be to get a girlfriend with her own place and just crash over there.
Learn to do without.
I know it sounds contrite, but hear me out.
Do you really need both of those monitors? If not, chuck one, or turn it off. Monitors draw quite a bit of power. Also, make sure you turn off your monitors when you're not using them, or make sure their power saving modes are on. Alternatively, you could go LCD to help reduce the costs, but I've always looked at that with some suspicion in that the prohibitive costs related to 19" and higher LCD's offset the potential savings.
How many computers are you running? If the answer is more than one, ask yourself if you really *need* to be running the others. Sure it's nice that you've gotten that old P233 up and running as your firewall, but frankly, a Linksys dedicated router/firewall is going to draw much less power, with fewer moving parts.
Air Conditioning: Learn to live a bit warmer. Learn to open windows instead of reaching for the thermostat. You'll find that your body can and will adjust to warmer temperatures if you let it. I live in the South with oppressive humidity and heat during the summer and my dad tells me stories of him growing up when they didn't have A/C. It can be done. And, if you follow the first 2 items above, you'll find your house isn't as hot. Computers + Monitors == lots of heat. Now, in my apartment, I don't have central A/C, only a couple window units, unfortunately. A trick I've learned is to shut the door to my bedroom, which happens to be decently sized, and only run the A/C in that room. It gets downright cold pretty fast. Now, it does make me somewhat of a prisoner in that room, only venturing out to use the can or to cook something in the kitchen, but I've learned to cope. Besides, I can grab my laptop and browse the web wirelessly from anywhere in my house. Also, at least here, the hottest part of the summers is only one or 2 months that you have to "suffer" through. Actually, if you work a lot, here's an excuse to work some OT.
My bill dropped from $150/month to less than $50/month once I adopted these measures.
If you're married with kids, feel free to ignore because I'm assuming most of the
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
The project was born out of a total and absolute frustration which in turn was a result of a fruitless search of information about existing temperature zoning solutions. The only information available on the zoning system manufacturer web sites was usually "call us for an estimate". The estimates were usually being performed by salespeople. Technical people were difficult to get. Read the complete story for details.
The author obviously didn't look in the right places. Here are a few links to get started:
SmartHome
HomeTech Solutions
Bass Burglar Alarms
I've done business with all three, and have retrofitted my home with a two-zone system powered by an RCS zone controller and electronic dampers. All three have been extremely helpful in providing technical advice.
One thing to remember: The HVAC business (as well as the burglar alarm business) are very protective of their turf. You stand little chance of finding an HVAC contractor willing to work with you on designing a custom HVAC system.
This is going to be the vaguest answer you ever got:
I saw a program on PBS or The Discovery Channel or HGTV or God knows what channel...
about a hotel in Arizona or Malaysia or Australia or god knows which country
which has a water recycling system installed. They have low flow toilets, and a filtration system, and the water is in a clear acryllic case. All the water for the all the systems is mostly recycled.
This site includes a number of ideas for reducing that energy bill, including zoned heating/cooling. There are several interesting real-time graphs of current energy use.
I found the site while searching for information on heat pump water heaters. One example graph they give shows the heat pump water heater using less than half the energy as resistive heating.
If installed properly, a heat pump water heater will also help air-condition your house. A good place to put ducts is in the kitchen, where the waste heat from cooking can be removed and used to heat water. Ideally, the returned cooled air can be directed at your refrigerator's condenser coils for increased efficiency.
While there's no good reason I can think of that retrofitted zoning would be a zoning problem, sometimes what's permissable and what's not isn't always self-evident.
It would royally suck to need something inspected later on, such as when selling a house, only to be told it wasn't code and had to come out or be expensively upgraded to meet code. I've done a ton of electrical work (some in conjunction with remodeling which was heavily inspected) and nobody said boo, but it was all code-compliant.
And speaking of resale, even though a zoned hvac system would be nice, one that's more complicated than your grandma can operate will actually lower your resale value to most people since it will be seen as a maintenance liability. I put in a Honeywell 7 day programmable thermostat and my wife hated me for a couple of months until she figured out how to work it. I can only imagine what she would do with something that made one room cold and another warm without being totally obvious (like a 15" LCD touch screen with a floor plan of the house and car-type heat controls).
Or rain water. You could save rain water for several purposes, like toilet water and watering your lawn.
It's even mandatory these days to install a rain water reservoir for new houses (here at least).
Insulate your house. Insulate your attic, insulate the walls, insulate the pipes and add secondary glazing. It's the cheapest and most effective thing you can do.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Not as good as using dampers, but much simpler. I put a copy of the webpage for this system on my website:
System_Hvac
- Install stormwater tanks. Hook them up to your roof's stormwater system, with the excess (that the tanks can't store) going into the stormwater drains, as the whole lot used to do. Use this water to flush toilets, water gardens, and possibly wash clothes and shower in (depending on the quality of the rainwater you get).
- Redirect water from your shower to gardens, toilets, etc. You may need to treat it to get rid of soap, shampoo, etc. residues.
- Fix those leaking taps.
- Take shorter showers.
- Install a water-saving shower head.
- Stop hosing down the damn concrete driveway. Use a broom, or a blower if you're that damn lazy.
Here in Australia, stormwater tanks used to be illegal! That's changed, though, as the Powers That Be came to the realisation that our water resources are limited, they won't be expanding, and yet they have to support a growing population. The scary thing is, since my father installed stormwater tanks for our showers, toilets, and laundry, our water bills dropped by a third (or more).As an aside, there's one place in Melbourne (Aus) that has no water bill. None. Zero. Zip. They were actually investigated pretty thoroughly when this happened, because authorities assumed they were stealing water from their neighbours. Not so, though; they were just very efficient with their water use and recycling, and were able to fill their needs from stormwater.
Indeed, one of the problems we have, conservationally speaking, is that we use our drinking water for everything. There is no water shortage, overall. We have just as much water after you flush your toilet as before. It's just that that water is no longer suitable for drinking.
Would you buy bottled water to pour into your toilet? Probably not, and yet that is essentially what you're doing right now.
I like to use a good, old fashioned cistern, a big bucket to collect rain water, for many uses that don't involve ingestion. Why buy "bottled water" to spray across your lawn/plants? Hell, your plants even like it if it's a bit, ummmm, shitty.
You can learn a lot about water managment by reading books on sailing. When blue water cruising, management of drinking water while still getting other things done requiring the use of water can mean the difference between life and death, not merely a larger water bill. Salt, rain, grey and fresh drinking water all have their various ideal uses.
KFG
Just do what I do. Gorge and eat as much as you can in the summer, turn the thermostat to 60 in the winter and sleep for 6 months.
Works for bears, works for me.
The sensible heat load is the outside temperature seeping through the walls, but it is also the sum beating down on the roof and walls and pouring through windows. The latent heat load is largely the result of air infiltration with some contribution from showers and cooking: running a dryer contributes to latent heat because it pulls 150 CFM of inside air through the dryer vent that gets made up by air seeping in.
One of the points made was that in fall in Florida, the air conditioner runs less so the indoor humidity climbs to the sticky range. They are recommending a variable speed air handler so that a low flow setting, the air gets chilled more so more of the AC goes into humidity removal. Heat pipes have been recommended as well -- to pre-chill the air handler input and pre-warm the output to trade less cooling for more condensing.
Other approaches include not running your fan in continuous mode because that just evaporates the moisture film on the coils every time the AC cycles off to better draining cooling coil pans.
But a fundamental problem is that the latent heat load is pretty much constant across the day while the sensible load varies with the sun and contributes to the big electrical peak. One idea is to paint the roof with titanium white to cut down on the sensible heat load.
The idea I have is to try to smooth out the electrical peak load by letting the AC run more at night and run a little less during the day, and to let the sensible-heat temperature cycle up and down during the day, but to have some combined measure of heat and humidity remain constant. Instead of maintaining a constant temperature to try to maintain a constant indoor dewpoint.
This system would 1) have it cooler at night to make sleeping easier -- I can stand it warmer during the day, 2) smooth out electrical peak demand, 3) more efficiently remove humidity averaged on a 24 hour basis because humidity removal efficiency goes down if the AC duty cycle goes up during the day and you are pulling the indoor humidity below 50 percent.
Carrier makes a rather expensive ($200 plus) Humidistat product that controls the AC to both temperature and humidity targets. A cheaper solution for me is to use a setback thermometer which lets the temps go down at night and go up during the day, and to only start lowering temps at sleep time. A typical setback unit has night, wake, day, and return times -- I may go for 75 night, 74 wake, 77 day, and 78 return (the thermal pulse from the sun shining all day makes it through the house by evening, and at 78 the AC will be cycling to lower the humidity anyway). I also use an electronic humidity gauge and dial all those temps up or down a degree or two to get about 50 percent RH).
> for non-eXtreme geeks like myself, HVAC stands for Heating, Ventilation, & Air Conditioning.
And for the rest of us, it stands for High Voltage AC. Though that's usually fairly darwinistic as a DIY-project.
I have a fairly paltry income, I was willing to do anything to cut back on expenses to make my daily life a little easier to live.
Started with the electric bill, did the obvious things, knocked the thermostat in a direction that'd keep the costs down. Replaced all the bulbs in the house with florecents. Switched to more energy effecient devices and appliances. It helped, but didn't make a real dent. My problem was heating and cooling. I live in a location with all the seasons. Very hot, very cold.
Then a co-worker inspired an idea. He faught in Viet Nam, told me bout how the guys rotated back to the world and stopped in Hawaii for refueling. All the guys in combat were so used to the hot humid jungle that the 88F weather of Hawaii was just too cold for them, they all had on leather jackets trying to beat the chill.
It was then I realized, that to a degree, my battles with TVA were more easily won by conditioning. All these years I had been spoiled by AC and electric heat. So I did a little experiment this Winter.
I vowed never to turn on the heat unless there was a chance that the pipes might freeze. Went and bought a coleman sleeping bag and a bunkbed at a thriftstore, kept myself closer to the cieling and snuggly in my sleeping bag. Kept very warm at night, during the day I'd burn a few candles just to take the chill out of the room, wore long sleaves.
My electric bill went from 270$ a month to around 30$.
Success through suffering. But the experiment worked, now I can run around in shorts when it's 38F out and it's not big deal to me.
How will I fair during the Summer tho? Many people die in the South from heat stroke, so I'm a little concerned about that. I really don't wanna die or get sick to save a dollar. So I think I'm going to do some zone cooling, reasonable AC set on 80 and lots of fans.
The methods illustrated in the story would have been tempting, but I'm a renter. Not a whole like I can apply to the living structure without violating my lease and being homeless where it's gonna be really cold out.
Actually, the single most worthy project would be simply buying a new refrigerator. They are the #1 electricity consumers in almost every household, because they run 24x7x365, and are never thrown out until they completely fail(after years of working below the already mediocre factory performance). Newer refrigerators are MUCH more efficient than those made 5, 10 years ago. There are even models that are so efficient, they can be run entirely off solar power.
Wanna reduce your electric bill, but can't replace your fridge? Leave enough space behind it for airflow, and vacuum/dust the coils, especially those under the unit. Oh, and properly set the controls; buy a thermometer and adjust until both compartments are cold -enough-. The freezer control, by the way, doesn't control the freezer compartment temperature- it controls the RATIO of cooling between refrigerator and freezer compartments.
All in all, even if you buy a new fridge, it could end up paying for itself in a year or two in saved electric costs. Oh, and slowly switch your lights over to fluorescent bulbs, wrap hot water pipes in foam insulation, put sealing inserts behind outlet plates+switchplates, etc. In the winter, cover windows in rooms you don't use with the window insulation you can buy at the hardware store. Find out the R-rating on the insulation in your walls, attic, etc; old insulation can be horrible compared to the latest new stuff(which can often be "blown" into place, install is a cinch). Got an old furnace? Get a new one; they're also a thousand times better these days. My folk's new gas furnace is so efficient, its exhaust is a 2" PVC pipe that is barely warm to the touch when it's going full blast...
Last but not least, turn off the damn computer when you're not using it, get an ISP account with webspace instead of running your own webserver, etc. I worked it out once...100-200W over 24x7x365 equals a LOT of money per year!
Please help metamoderate.
When I bult my house I used Wirsbo(tm) tubing under the hardwood flooring upstairs, and in the concrete slab downstairs. It is set up with zones, digital, 7 day thermostats, etc. The floors are always warm, any backup heat is from a pellet stove. All DIY. It is very comfortable.
The heat for the infloor system is from standard water heaters. Since the water heaters are downstairs, I don't need to turn on the thermostats for pump control - simple thermosiphon will cause the hot water to flow thru the system in the upper two stories.
The system is simple and convenient. If power goes out I still have heat from thermosiphoning.
It is possible top retrofit homes with this system, either with baseboard radiators or running the tubing between the joists (plus some drilling to get to each joist bay) as long as the crawl space is available.
There are other companies besides Wirsbo that produce this type of heating system/product.
When you are ready to build/buy your own house I recommend comparing HVAC and infloor heating. Look at "Fine Homebuilding" magazine for ads and articles, they are at the obvious web site.
To make my heating system more viable I used foam insulation for R-50 in the walls and R-60 in the roof. Double paned windows and a 5 foot overhang to reduce summer heat gain (my outside walls are 11 feet high). If the are more than 8 people in the house at a time I need to turn all the heating off, as the heat thrown off by the bodies raises the inside temp.
All in all a rather pleasant solution to the heating/cooling system.
Since I live on the northern California coast I don't need cooling. Average year round temp is 55 degrees F.
If you need cooling the system could be adapted for that. To cool the house you only need to cool the circulating water, a heat pump would the best solution.
A few months ago, I bailed on a seven-year stint as an active HVAC contractor in Florida; I love this project.
But I am glad I don't have to answer the radio shout for help from the poor on-call technician who gets a look at this equipment for the first time at 0200 on a Sunday morning. If something breaks on a system like this, and the geek that built it is gone, then things will likely progress as you describe: The hardware changes will be undone in a few hours, returning the system to a state understood by the servicer, even if the problem is as simple as a mechanically broken servo link. Many of the HVAC techs working have trouble using their VOMs efficiently on the high voltage sections of the system. For these guys, controls are mysterious scary voodoo magic. For such a cool system to survive its inventor it'll need killer documentation, easy to find and comprehend, and hard to lose.
The article mentions the Trane XV1500. We had a bunch under our care; they were wicked good air conditioners. They stopped making them because the average service tech was helpless to make them go when they broke, so they tore them apart and tried to make them work in a more simple way...which was not possible with those systems, as the compressor was a frequency-controlled DC motor. Much unhappiness for tech, for homeowner, for service company, for Trane. So now they make a condensing unit with two old fashioned compressors, and stage those. They still get butchered, but at least coldness can happen on an emergency call on the 4th of July weekend.
According to my schedule the episode of This Old House on PBS this week will show how in Bermuda it is standard practice to collect rainwater for all a house's water needs - in fact if a family uses too much water, they're forced to buy water from the government. Show info here shows up to last week's episode: This Old House
directly tie-in to the temperature zoning system featured in this Slashdot posting.
The temperature controller is an *excellent* idea, I think I'll take a look at incorporating it into my house.
Here's my little (non-computerized) ecological project: a gray water toilet which recycles water from my washing machine.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
I've considered that, but you are ignoring the most expensive part of all that: my personal time in setting that up and getting it balanced out to where my family and I find it usable. It is the difference between a TiVo and MythTV: where I am concerned I would choose the latter, but because my family gets put into the equation I go with the former. Could I have gone with a Radio Shack learning remote? Sure, but throw my then-6-year-old into the mix and I went for the Pronto so that they don't have to remember "AUX1 is for this, but you have to hit AUX2 anbd power after that." I don't want the family to have to reboot the system because they're friggin freezing and some stupid patch hasn't been put up on a site yet. Besides, a lot of the digital thermostats from sites like SmartHome integrate into MisterHouse which runs on Perl and doesn't bog my server down. Best of both worlds.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."