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Changing Jobs for Job Satisfaction?
I-love-my-work, who is considering rejoining the IT world after a stint in business, asks: "A molecular biologist with a PhD at University of
Birmingham, in the UK, quits his lab position to become a plumber, since a plumber apparently earns twice what he currently makes (~US$42K).
How many of you would change careers if given a chance? What factors would influence the decision (money, hours, upper management, a chance to enjoy more of your life)?" What factors would make you seriously consider leaving your current career for another?
What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Besides 2 chicks at the same time?
Well yeah
I'd do absolutly nothing...
=)
I work in the software industry, and the recent death of a co-worker has me thinking about what I do with my time. Could I support my family with an at-home job? Could I work somewhere that lets me spend more time with my kids?
Sure, I make pretty good scratch, but what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?
These questions and more are definately floating around our office.
Or perhaps one could find a job that does not require work, and therefore come to love it ;-)
Just like driving a car:
(D) to go forward
(R) to go backward
Not always true, unfortunately. All too often the 'job' part ruins the 'fun' part.
... and I no longer can easily start working on programming related things once I get home from work. After 5+ years of doing it as a job now, it's very difficult for me to spend time writing code at home now ... it just feels too much like work. =(
For example, I used to love programming. Then I got a job doing it for a living
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away
I'm thinking of moving out of the IT industry...
What I'm looking for:
Reasonable job satisfaction- No more adjusting the settings on something that's going to get screwed up constantly or need non-stop maintenance. Something physical. And preferably something that people don't consider vital to their life. I can't even guess how many day-traders have threatened to hold me responsible for their ISP being down...
Human interaction-And by human, I don't mean people that can't use their computers.
Being in a job where the only people you see for months on end are 7 other guys kind of gets old. Especially if you don't get out a lot.
Money will/would be nice, but my expenses are low, so I'm fortunate that it won't be a primary concern.
I had a sucky sig.
I was a highly-paid dot-com bubble programmer, and then I was asked to become a vacationer overnight.
Seriously though, it was a very pleasant experience : 2 years of absolute slacking, doing only what I wanted on the money I had made during the bubble, recovering from 5 years of uninterrupted software development death marches that had left me kind of sick, and reflecting on all the mistakes I will never make in the future, either as an employee or as an entrepreneur.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
One professor of mathematics noticed that his kitchen sink at his home broke down. He called a plumber. The plumber came on the next day, sealed a few screws and everything was working as before. The professor was delighted. However, when the plumber gave him the bill a minute later, he was shocked. "This is one third of my monthly salary!" he yelled. Well, he paid and then the plumber said to him: "I understand your position as a professor. Why don't you come to our company and apply for a plumber position? You will earn three times as much as a professor. But remember, when you apply tell them that you completed only the seventh grade. They don't like educated people."
So it happened. The professor got a plumber job and his life significantly improved. He just had to seal a screw or two occasionally, and his salary went up significantly. One day, the board of the plumbing company decided that every plumber has to go to evening classes to complete the eighth grade. So, our professor had to go there too. It just happened that the first class was math. The evening teacher, to check student's knowledge, asked for a formula for the area of the circle. The person who was ask was the professor. He jumped to the board, and then he realized that he forgot the formula.
He started to reason it and soon filled the board with integrals, differentials and other advanced formulas to conclude the result that he had forgotten. As a result he got "negative pi times r squared." He didn't like the negative, so he started all over again. He got the negative sign again. No matter how many times he tried, he always got a negative. He was frustrated. He looked a bit scared at the class and saw all the plumbers whisper: "Switch the limits of the integral!!"
When men used to be men
I worked in IT for a good number of years, as everything from tech support to running a small computer shop. Eventually, I decided to try something else...I was getting sick of IT, sick of people. I went full tilt the other direction -- I became a trucker. The pay is the same or better (depending upon what I'm doing), and the satisfaction of getting things done, truly, is much better than the endless chain of people in tech support. Fixing pc's was never the same, nor was managing databases. I've also found that it's great seeing the country as a whole -- there's a lot of stuff out there you just don't get to enjoy when you're inside a building 8-12 hours a day.
I sing the doggie electric!
On some really bad days, I sometimes consider leaving the IT industry and becoming a botanist.
What's the worst that could happen? Your bulbs don't germinate on time? Maybe some of your plants get some bugs... It's not like 500 employees breathing down your neck because the server is down.
But I would really miss working with the people. Go figure. The source of most of my IT pain is really the only reason for working in the industry.
Don't forget that the grass is always greener.
So chemists want to be he-man plumbers, swinging a pick and gaining satisfaction from building something tangible? Plumbers wish they could sit on their asses out of the weather and keep their fingers soft and clean on a keyboard all day. Programmers wish they could be making explosions in a chemistry lab, wearing a cool white coat and getting all the chicks!!
It's getting too stressful worrying about layoff-this, RSI-that. I work in an industry (3D animation) that in ten years will probably be smaller than it is now. When I change careers it will probably be because I'm too tired of being one of the rats clinging to Titanic's rigging. This used to be a job that I loved (and you're right, I never worked a day), but that has changed and it's a job now.
I'll switch careers when I find something that will make me as happy as doing 3d work did five years ago.
which means you enjoyed it without the deadlines, forced work, etc.
basically you liked it as a hobby, not as a job.
a good thing to keep in mind.
Get paid to code OSS
I changed out of IT after the crash in 2000. I started teaching college as a stopgap measure and found it immensely rewarding despite the drastic drop in pay. I got certified to teach math in Florida, and I'm now here looking to teach kids in the public school system. Job satisfaction was the only motivating factor.
"My ship came in, but was bombed by terrorists in port and sank." - Me
sit at home, hack perl code, and watch tv/listen to music. I work in my underwear most days...in fact I'm posting in my underwear. I have sex while i'm at work when my gf comes over. I can drink if i want, smoke whenever i want, get a tan on my deck since i have a laptop, whatever i want. sometimes i walk downtown and go to a coffee shop for a change of scenery.
:) what more can I ask for? maybe i could buy a house close to where i am now, which is 3 blocks from the beach.
plus i get paid well
perl -e '$_="\007/4`\cp%2,".chr(127);s/./"\"\\c$&\""/gees
The way I feel about it is this: I can sit in a cubicle doing what is essentially rearranging random ones and zeros into non-random order to create something of value (although most of my time is actually spent doing documentation, reports, supervision, meetings etc).
OR I can take a bunch of raw pieces of wood and create something that is not only beautiful, but allows a musician to create even more beauty and music.
Which one sounds more satisfying to you?
The more I write code the more I want to build guitars for a living.
[BTW, I'd love to add a shameless plug for my website right about here but I'd probably just slashdot myself and end up taking my whole site down]
If that were the choice, I'd rather hate my job for 5 years making $100k/year, put $80k each year in the bank and then quit my job and pay myself $20k each year for the next 25 years out of the saved money to do what I want ;).
Jason
ProfQuotes
Here.
This article is a little scattered. One person is quitting his job as a *molecular biologist with a Ph.D." to work as a plumber, while another person is switching to training greyhounds and yet another is just moving to Canada. The reasons for all of these changes may be way unrelated to each other.
...
But so what? Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean that you should. I've made in excess of $100,000/year as a software consultant for four years. Now I'm finishing my English degree and studying poetry. People do this sort of thing all the time and it usually comes when they're a little older and have a better idea of what matters to them in life and what gives them the energy to get up in the morning and face the day. The molecular biologist has some big bills, perhaps. Or maybe he's just a smart guy that put in a ton of work -- Ph.D.'s, after all, aren't earned in a few weekends of spare time study, at least not from a reputable school -- and then found that the reality of research is different from the intellectual stimulation of textbooks.
Do I like software? Yes, I do. I compete on TopCoder, read books about functional programming, and throw mud at SCO. But writing and literature is, simply speaking, closer to my heart. For another person it's training an ancient breed of dogs. And for yet another person it's going to Canada to commune with, well, Canadians I guess.
The fact is that, given basic education, intelligence and wherewithal, we live in a world where you don't *have* to settle for doin' what yer daddy done, or towing the line, or staying "safe" if you don't want to.
This molecular plumber guy is just searching for a reward, I guess. After a few years of the realities of a plumber, it's possible yet he may look fondly back at his days as a molecular biologist
Chr0m0Dr0m!C
First off a plumber makes more than someone with a phd?
Anyway, something similar to this happened to me, minus the 42k and phd. I recently swapped careers after over 8 years as an automotive tech. I decided I was tired of going home greasy, busting my knuckles, and working out in the cold. Now I'm in school part time, and working with the same company only in the IT department. The dirtiest I get at work now is from a rabid dust bunny inside of a case or two. Needless to say I am happy of the change. Once school is completed I'll make at least twice what I did working on cars. I would have been reluctant to change had I not been able to stay with the same company. I know of many people who have their degrees in Computer Science, and cannot get a job either from the market bieng saturated or a lack of hands on experience. I am lucky enough to have the best of both worlds, job security, working at my degree, and getting hands on experience.
As for the plumber with a phd, my father always said "It doesn't matter if you make minimum wage washing dishes, as long as your happy with what you do."
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
How about a job that lets you spend 90% of your time reloading slashdot? (like mine :)
Most of my life I've gotten the advice to figure out what you love and find some fool to pay you for doing it. Now I'm not so sure. Go find a secure profession that will pay you well enough to live your life (hint: a life isn't what you do at work). Make sure there are enough opportunities that you can switch employers whenever you get sick of one. Then go do what you love. You're selling some of your life to your employer to finance the rest of your life.
The problem with the boom is that the textile workers got into IT where they dont belong. I know I should feel sorry for the dot bomb people that lost there jobs but looking back to many of them shouldent have been around a datacenter forget having root / administrator credentials yes they tried hard etc etc etc but a book does not make a good IT person just an ok one. People should have a spark and drive for there job if your not driven to do your job well well I dont feel sorry for you when you get laid off over the 19 year old kid that loves to code / engineer and does it well. Sure there are some things that are book learning but you can tell the difference between the 9-5 people and the ones that do cool things on weekends. Find a job you have passion for and never let it be extinguished otherwise work at dennies or become a corprate drone.
No sir I dont like it.
I've always preferred:
find a job you like enough to do for the rest of your life, that pays well and doesn't have too long hours. Then do the stuff you love with your money and free time.
Because let's face it, there's way more stuff that's fun to do in your free time than as a job.
And if you love your job, there's a good chance you're not making enough money to do a whole lot of other stuff. (love + money + time is perfect, like + money + time is a great, easier to attain second place)
I had a job as senior project manager, my skills "helped" me to get into the business area as well as the technical, so at the end of the day I was doing the jobs of a sales engineer, manager of the IT crew and project manager. That was ok until my boss started to push to improve my sales!!!! c'mon...
Anyway... he went to southamerica to close a few deals and I was running the business here. We were about 10 people. The problem was when he starting to call the customers to force payments (they were late) and ruined all the negotiations I did. Projects started to collapse and 3 of the best employees left. I tried to, but my hands were tied with the responsibiliti. Finally the stress led me to the hospital and when the company refused to pay the bill and the extra expenses I decided to quit. Money was good, but considering the chores I was doing, I deserved the money of 3 or 4 management positions.
You and your health is the most important, also take time to live your life, don't live for work. Become necessary to your company, but don't solve others work. If you feel abused, talk, if nobody listens, then it's time to give the fsk salutation to your boss. Chances are they won't support you in easy times, lesser are while you're in troubles.
My 2cents.
There's a fine line between persistance and pestering. Giving your superiors an ultimatum isn't going to be as affective and convincing them why its in their best interest to give you a development position.
But when programming (or speaking or writing) matures into becoming a tool, its spectrum of possibilities for rewarding engagement widens dramatically.
Choose your next job by its projects. (And soon.)
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
Mod down this rant if you want, but it is an objective opinion of the consensus of this thread.
Everyone here talks about how they can't leave IT, and "boo-hoo" that this corporation that cares little for you offshores your job.
The PhD in question realized that plumbing pays more (and to reply to another thread, a plumber can make much more than 100k USD if they want to).
Personally, I hate my IT job. I do network administration for a logistics company. We also have a help desk (which for some strange reason is my boss) and three programmers who program in something easier than VB (magic software out of israel if you are interested...shudder).
I loathe my IT job, loathe the fact that nobody understand what I do, loathe the fact that I am forgotten about, loathe the fact that I put in 80 hour weeks and get chastised for the raise I threaten to quit over if I didn't get it. I am going to quit. As someone else stated, money is the best form of flattery. Who will pay me better than me? Nobody. So I am starting my own buisness.
Yes it is a horrible plan (ebay selling combined with windshield repair) but I do have aspiritions (would like to start developing games for cell phones and pdas)
So I am leaving my position in about 3 months to start it. Will I make as much? No. I only make 40k now, but with benefits that is probably nearer to 50k a year ( no bonus, no matching 401k ). Do I have to potential to make more? Hell yes I do. I am greatly suprized that people haven't taken the ititiative to start up there own niche based software companies. I am about to, and plan on hiring part time java programmers from wherever they pop up, as so long as they can do the work.
Not everyone has the prudence to start there own buisness, not everyone can code 4000 (good) lines in a week, not everyone can program a pix without looking at it.
If you love coding, but hate your job, find a niche that nobody else has filled. Write damn good software, and actively work on getting it marketed to the people who will use it. Maybe a niche to you is an answering machine for your linux box that emails you the ogg version of the message. Maybe it is a good time management system. Or software for logistics, or dental offices, or time management. Is each one of these things something that will make you a millionare? Of course not. If you change certain aspects of it, and spin the marketing a certain way, and sell it correctly, you could easily be sucessful enough and make enough bread for your family.
I still come back here even though 95% of the posters on slashdot haven't a clue, and usually don't mod up the intellegent posts because they don't agree with them.
Blah Blah Blah.
Sure, I make pretty good scratch, but what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?
I've heard this from a lot of people. And certainly there are scores of people who spend too much time at work and not enough with their families. But I always remember what happened to some guy who used to work here: he came down with Alzheimer's in his 40s. I work at a scientific/engineering kind of place and, needless to say, your mind is the most important tool you have. This poor guy got struck down with a terrible disease way before his time. He had to retire. He just couldn't do the work anymore. Here's a case where doing the right thing for your family would have been to save up a big chunk of dough to support them if you died or could no longer work. Of course, he didn't know he was going to get Alzheimer's -- and certainly not at such an early age -- so he can't be blamed if he didn't save up a shitload of money "just in case."
The point I'm trying to make is that these issues are tough. No one has the "right" answer. Maybe your family is better off if you take a pay cut and have more time for them. And maybe your family is better off if you work your ass off when you're young and save up a lot of money to support them in case something happens to you. No way to know for sure. It's questions and issues like this that make life so exciting and terrifying at the same time.
GMD
watch this
Why anyone would want to be a Microbiologist?? I mean I have desire to be a plummer personally, but at least I would get tons of meaningless casual sex... That is unless porn has lied to me... :)
Once you are in these positions and they appear on your resume, you are pigeonholed.
/. to laugh bitterly at all you innocent college students who still cling to hope. The IT world is a boot, folks, and it impacts on your nether regions again and again and again...
It's not only that, but the TYPE of programming you do -- once you do a certain kind, you're pigeonholed in that, too.
For 7 years I was a C/Unix programmer. I was asked (in the "do it or you're fired way"), for the good of the company, to join a new project that was Unix backend and Visual Basic front end, and everyone got training on both. Fine, I thought it would broaden my skill set... ha! Since I picked up on the VB fast, they made me the main VB person on the project. Then I didn't work with Unix at all. At the end of the project, I was "the VB guy", and only got offered VB slots in the company. Looked outside, and no Unix or C shop would even consider someone who had been coding VB for a year. Those seven years before coding C/Unix... gee, must not have happened.
I've been through four companies since then, and I'm STILL coding VB. I come to
Go be a plumber. That's a useful job in society. Programmers should just be shot -- and when we're lining the streets three deep looking for jobs, that's precisely what they'll do to us, just to keep from blocking traffic.
I realized a few years ago that I like having all bills paid too, but that I care a lot more about travelling to new and beautiful places during the summer than I do about having cable TV during the winter. You choose your luxuries in life. My luxuries are less material and more quality-of-life things. I can pay off all my bills even living under the poverty line, and I'm much happier now than I was when I had more bills-- and a LOT more money.
I was a programmer for a while, most notably during the bubble. I was paid really well, enjoyed the work itself most of the time, and got great perks. I also worked in an office with no windows 40 to 50 hours a week, and it could be pretty frustrating at times (in a damn, this idiot will NEVER understand the point I'm trying to make! kind of way) So I decided to go back to school.
I'm working on a PhD in archaeology. The stipend I'm living off of is a quarter of what I was making at my old job (not considering things like inflation and the raises I would've gotten between then and now.) I can't afford cable or to go out for dinner all that much; I'm living below the poverty line. But I love my life! I travel every summer to exotic places, I love what I spend my time doing, I am intellectually challenged every minute of the day, set my own schedule again, and am excited about the fact that I have so much freedom to determine where I will be in the future. Which university or universties I'll end up teaching at, where I'll do my research, all of the places I'll be able to visit. All of the reading I'll do and all of the time I'll spend outdoors instead of in an office with no windows. It'd be great if at some point I make a lot of money again, and I'm sure I'll manage to do just fine (under the poverty line is for grad students; I don't plan to stay here forever.) But for me, it was no choice: job and LIFE satisfaction over any amount of money, any day.
Do something about world hunger. Click here
So what's the lesson learned? When you're young, work the job you like. You have your entire life to work jobs you hate and once you get that house, new car, wife, and children it will be tougher to leave a bad job if it pays well. When you're young and basically all you have in your life it work, make that work as enjoyable as possible. Plan for the future, but don't let that possible future ruin your present.
"Oh dear, she's stuck in an infinite loop and he's an idiot" -Prof. Farnsworth (Futurama)