Posted by
michael
on from the welding-torches-work-both-ways dept.
An Ominous Cow Erred writes "A common argument used by open source advocates (myself included) in favor of open source is the simple question: 'Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?' According to an article from the BBC, Volvo thinks the way of the future may be exactly that."
There's something about trusting the mechanics to tell me when my car's broken that I don't really like...
Besides, what happens when the radio transmitter breaks?
Re:Mechanics?
by
blahlemon
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
The front molding is all one piece that comes off with a specialized tool. It said in the article that only a Volvo technician could take it off. Obvioiusly because they wouldn't sell the tools to the mass market.
Not that specialized tools is a new idea. Car companies have been doing that for years to try and get people to bring their cars back to the dealer for repairs.
-- It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
There's something about trusting the mechanics to tell me when my car's broken that I don't really like...
But how else would we know what our boss feels like when we say the harddrive just died on the RAID attached to the mailserver, and even though the machine is chugging along just fine, we really do need a new disk?
Personally, I think that the union of computers and internal combustion engines is just plain stupid. One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/ Plus, I am mechanically inclined and often it is cheaper and easier for me to do my own maintenance and minor repairs. Welding the engine hood shut is doubly stupid. What if there is an engine fire?
-- --
SKYKING, SKYKING, DO NOT ANSWER.
just my opinion
by
greechneb
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
the article says only a volvo mechanic would be able to remove the bonnet... basically the whole front end. You think your mechanic will want to remove the whole front end just to replace a $5 part that would take 30 minutes, that will now take 2 hours? Of course they do get paid by the hour, so maybe it is a way of getting more shop time....
Screw That!
by
xianzombie
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
>The whole front of the car is moulded in one >piece which can be removed only by a Volvo >mechanic.
Great, so you can pay $40+ (USD) for an oilchange, along with god knows what a dealer charges for the rest of the routine maintence.
I mean, ok, so the cars geared for women, and we know they can't do their own maintence, but what if they have an ounce of common sense and realize theres no reason to pay dealer prices?
By women, for women?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Actually, the article just seems to be about the reinforcement of stereotypes that women don't want to get their hands dirty fixing the car. The concept car is supposed to be "feminine", and quotes some woman about how she never wants to go under the hood. Stereotypes flourish in Scandinavia!
Now I can't be the only one who finds the generalizations made in the article offensive! And I'm not a woman and by no means some earthy-crunchy sensitive 90's-type guy.
On top of that, the concept is stupid. There are things that people (yes, even women) can do themselves under the hood of their own car. What's next? Welding our computer cases shut? (or at least making better "void your warranty" stickers)
missing a step
by
millahtime
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
so, did the women who designed it think that something under the hood would never break or that the car is disposable? Were the women who designed this some high maintaince women whos daddys/husbands buy them everything?
If it breaks under the hood how do you fix it????????????
Simple Solution
by
aliens
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Don't buy the car, it doesn't sell you won't see others like it.
-- --
taking over the world, we are.
That's just silly
by
lovelee
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Just because some woman's organization thinks the only reason some women want to look under the bonnet is to add washer fluid doesn't mean females want to trek their car into a mechanic to check their oil or change a fuse (my fuse box is under the bonnet!).
Women gripe about how mechanics always treat them badly and try to take advantage of them anyway - why enable that by making a car that you can't check out, even if you wanted to?
breakdown service??
by
ponxx
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I'm not particularly convinced by this car... what happens if it breaks down on the motorway? Do you have to call the Volvo break down service? How about a dead battery? Or just flat one when you need a jump-start? What if you want to get an oil-change at a garage round the corner? It strikes me as the kind of thing a car maker would do to increase their slice of the servicing market, much like some up-market cars that have rare or very odd parts so that only "authorised garages" are likely to be able to do anything beyond chancingin the oil...
Most of the other design features also sound more like bunch of men were having a laugh as to what a woman wants in a car... like being able to colour-coordinate with your clothes... Please!!!
I guess doing this kind of design study is a good way of getting publicity though, even made it onto slashdot...
The analogy is flawed. Not having access to the source code of a program does not mean that you can not troubleshoot or perform basic maintenance on it.
A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged, it would be like not being able to use anti-virus software.
Source code isn't everything. I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday. It could be argued that a closed source easy-troubleshootable program is actually easy to fix than an opensource program whose developers don't give a crap about trying to help people troubleshoot.
Word just quit on me... some sort of internal error, okay, how to I troubleshoot it =)
Source code isn't everything
Why yes... there's configuration files, so if your programme crashes in 640x480 resolution then...
I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday
What exactly to you mean my maintenance, and if it's so easy why do you do it every day?
A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged
Defragging a HD is one operation. Having the hood open lets you change many things. Do you see the distinction?
The analogy is flawed
Smiles politely. Oh all right, I fell down laughing =) =) =) =)
--
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
They don't have to weld the hood shut.
by
cblguy
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Modern auto engineering is about packing as many options in as little space as possible - all while allowing room to cool the engine.
Many vehicles are designed to have "minor" service with "major" pain. Ever look under the hood of a minivan? Good luck changing the fuel injectors, or a spark plug. Most of these will require removal of at least the intake manifold's upper plenum (along with accessories), if not dropping the engine cradle.
For many people, a "welded" hood already exists - they don't want to open it anyway. It's not for me (I wrench my own cars - rebuilding my own transmission this weekend). But for others, why not. A welded hood is not much of a difference than the way my father-in-law treats his Cadillac anyway.
Oh yeah, and as a woman who can't afford to go to a mechanic every time my car needs a fluid topoff, I think this would suck a lot.
I think it would discourage people from doing routine maintenance on their vehicles and from being able to figure out problems before heading to the mechanic.
When I go to mechanics, they often try to rip me off or tell me I need more parts than I do. One of them tried to get me to buy a new radiator when I already knew I only needed a coolant overflow tank (because the radiator was full and only the overflow tank was consistently empty).
Sure, if a person's not going to do any maintenance anyway, whatever. But this is basically like saying "rip me off, pretty please, I have no idea what this car does or what's under the hood!"
Additionally - what happens when you need a jump, or when your battery needs replaced? Even the most technologically inept woman I've ever met can be talked through a battery installation. What happens if your battery dies a hundred miles from the nearest Volvo dealership?
What is more insulting
by
sielwolf
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
that women would never want to open the hood to their car, or that women came up with the concept (that women would never want to open the hood)?
Of course, from the article: The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
Bull. This is up there with the three bits (or whatever) of encryption on DVDs as the lamest attempt at obfuscation. The next day, after hitting the showroom, Autozone would have a 3 dollar wrench to open this bastard. And I bet anyone with an IQ over 10 could pop this badboy off with a screwdriver and a little leverage. That's probably all this Volvo mechanic would do after tiring of this Feature.
A clumsy kludge that has no point other than being a big pain in the ass. Really, does having access to you're car's naughty bits in any way effect driving? This is the New Coke of car innovations.
Besides, the only Swedish vehicle worth sitting in is a Saab Draken.;)
if you really desire the days of mechanical points for the ignition system then you can have them buddy.
90% of all horsepower increase achievements have came from electronic and computerized engine management. There are things you CANNOT do with mechanical ignition timing and engine management.
-- Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Reliability vs. Cost of Access
by
G4from128k
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
While I doubt that cars have reached this point, there will come a time when it makes economic sense to "weld the hood shut." Building a nice easy-open car hood does cost money. If a car were as reliable as most consumer electronics, there would be little reasons for most people to get inside the hood on a routine basis. Cars are n't there yet, but as engine reliability increases, there will be less reason to get under the hood and thus less reason to pay for all the parts and mechanisms needed to made a door on the front of the car.
When was the last time you needed get inside your car's radio? (OK, I know I posting on/. and someone hacker out their will have done something interesting inside their car radio)
The point is that if the cost of providing access exceeds the benefits of providing access, then you get products with "no user servicable parts inside."
-- Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Re:HONDAS dont break
by
cbiltcliffe
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
This won't cost more - it'll cost less. At least for those of us buying relatively new vehicles. For the rest of you saps buying 5-10 year old vehicles - EAT MY SEALED CARS DUST!!!
And if the person who's going to buy your car off you when it's 5 years old can't open the hood to fix it themselves, how much do you think they're going to pay you for it? You'll buy a nice shiny new plastic piece of crap with zero resale value.
The vision just popped into my head of dozens of these cars at 10 years old or so driving around major cities with no hood, because the owner ripped it off and left it off.
Volvo hot-rod, anyone? Problem is, I'm sure the practical V6 with hundreds of wires and sensors, so cluttered that you can't even see the engine, won't look nearly as impressive as a chromed 396 big block chevy.
-- "City hall" in German is "Rathaus"
Kinda explains a few things......
Re:Not a new idea
by
checkyoulater
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I'd cut a hatch and add a latch and some hinges so I could access the engine compartment. I like doing my own minor maintenance and repairs.
OK, I let your first comment go, but this is the second time you have made this outrageous claim. Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem? Even the mechanics at the dealership need to hook the engine up to the diagnostic computers these days. I could understand doing repairs on older cars, say circa 1995 and older, but give me a break. I am mechanically inclined as well, but I wouldn't even attempt to repair anything inside the engine of a 2004 car. Expect maybe the washer fluid reservoir, or replace a broken cap. Exactly the parts you could access in this new Volvo.
-- Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
You DON'T fix a modern car by yourself
by
Squashee
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Sure, welding the hood shut is a very provocative step, and the majority of the comments are about "stopping on a highway" etc. You think you can fix engine problems on new, modern cars yourself? Think again.
I have many times over stripped my 90' volvo 245 EEC engine, and that I can fix, but my motherns new Renault? No way. Don't even know where to start. Modern car engines are extremly complicated and compact, and they contain a LOT of stuff that wasn't there on your ol' chevy. You might know the error, but you even can't find/reach the component!
You actually do need specialist help to fix you'r car these days, or at least you need a extra trailer with equipment and tools. I doubt the majority of the people who talk about the "stranded on the side of a highway" actually have ever tried to fix something on a car built this millenium.
I have to disagree. The advantages of modern engine control are huge. Computer control has given us tons in terms of increased efficiency and horsepower, decreased emissions, and increased integration between components; IE when you stomp on the gas, the computer turns off the A/C for a few seconds to divert power to the drivetrain.
Computer engine control was kind of rough when it first started being used; the computers died a lot, they were susceptible to sensor failure, etc. Now they're way better, and engines are FAR more reliable than they were before computers.
I for one don't want to go back to the days of carburetors and distributors. Fuel injection and coil packs or coil-on-plug, along with the computer(s) to control them, have made cars LOADS more reliable. Sure, it may be harder to work on them, but you don't NEED to work on them nearly as much.
Try taking a 1969 car and driving it 120,000 miles without doing anything more than changing the oil.
Also, I find that in most cases it's EASIER to work on my car with a computer. Without a computer you only know if there's something wrong if it's bad enough to cause serious performance degradation. With a computer, you can catch problems way before they become serious. I had a light a few months ago, went to the auto parts store, borrowed their scanner, saw that I had a stuck EGR valve, wrenched it off, cleaned it, and replaced it. Without the computer I'd never have had a clue, just kept polluting more than necessary, and possibly fouling my catalytic converter as well.
I do have to agree about the shut hood though. I'd never even consider buying a car like this, or letting anyone in my family buy one.
I think they're missing a bit by saying this is "for women" - most men never do anything under the hood, either; I know men that are more hopeless mechanically than many women I know. One of the best mechanics I've ever had was female. I think the whole thing is kind of insulting.
Re:ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?
by
dave420
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
They'll put a fire-axe right through it, and pump water in. Simple. They're not trying to protect the paintwork, but stop it exploding. Dinging the hood is the least of their worries:-P
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Roblimo
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I'd like a car with easily removable/exchangable seat cushions myself. I could have a plush set for regular/city use, and a vinyl set for when we go to the beach, head out to sail, going camping, or anything else that tends to get the interior dirty.
Except sooner or later I'll probably moot this whole idea and replace my Cherokee with a Wrangler or old CJ with a totally washable "interior" and use it as our beach/tow/camping vehicle, with my wife's Hyundai reserved for "civilized" driving.
(BTW, my wife checks oil and other necessary fluids often. I don't think she'd want a car where she couldn't do that easily.)
- Robin
Maybe it's different in England
by
The+Tyro
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
but I'd never ask my wife to stand on the side of a US interstate with the hood up, waiting for who-the-hell-knows to stop... that's a recipe for disaster in some parts of the country. Now, I myself stop for people from time to time (it's my medic's instinct to see if they need help), but I don't expect them to trust me... and if they hint I should drive on, I always do so.
That's what cell phones are for... I'm not trying to insult you here, so please don't take it that way, but I'd never leave my wife dependent on the kindness of strangers.
Like I say, maybe it's different in England.
-- Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Re:I nominate this...
by
BlackHawk
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
The scenario that comes most easily to mind is that of the car breaking down on the highway. What are you going to do, without a cellphone, without being able to access the hood?
What are you going to do anyway? The overwhelming majority of people I know do not carry a full set of tools in their car, and even if they do, they carry little to no spare parts. So you break down. You can perform Manly Car Manuever #1: open the hood and stare at the engine. Even if you can diagnose the problem, what are you going to do without replacement parts?
What if the temp outside is subzero and you're 5 miles from the nearest inhabitant?
And the ability to open the hood here means you can not only perform MCM #1 (detailed above), but you can do #'s 2 and 3: Freeze your ass off while doing it, and cuss at it.
Crits aside though, the car is pretty nice, and it is also good to see that we are able to make cars easier for the dumba^H^H^H^H^Hnormal people who drive cars and don't want to be concerned with how their car works.
Oh, you're one of those zealots. Now I understand the basis for your objection. Religious issues...
There's nothing that says a person can't know how the car works, and still not want to... or be able to, even!... perform their own maintenance on that car. The concepts here are, frankly, brilliant in that they take into account the existing desires of the target market. A lot has been written here about "reinforcing stereotypes", but the fact remains that most people (men and women) do not perform their own maintenance. Ergo, make the car so they don't have to.
A better article on this project, which is called "Your Concept Car" or YCC, can be found at http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article= 6907 and explains some of the features in more detail, including the big one: the first maintenance stop is at 35,000 miles.
--
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
You know, there is a real advantage to a sealed hood/bonnet: stiffness. I would bet that the modern hood is a real PITA to car structural designers who look at that big unstressed hood and weep.
The headline suggests the engine is completely sealed off to prevent anyone but the manufacturer from touching the insides.
So does the BBC article:
The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
The headline was only misleading to the extent that it didn't mention the "designed for women by women" angle--that it's not Volvo wanting to seal everyone's hood, just those of women. So they aren't attacking open source, they're attacking respect for women. Which is kind of worse if you stop and think about it.
This isn't 1970 anymore!
by
bluGill
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Cars manufactures have changed over the years. At one time Honda really was significantly more reliable than Ford. Many people have let Honda slide on this reputation for years, paying for more, for a car that isn't really any better than something that others can give.
Hondas have problems too. Fords have problems. I don't know who builds the better car this year, and we can't know for 20 years. Until then it is just a guess. Some years Honda builds good cars, some years they don't. People are willing to forgive Honda for a bad car because "everyone has a few problems", but Ford with just as many problems just adds to their reputation of not building good cars. It isn't right.
Re:Porsche Boxster anyone?
by
MKalus
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Well,
if you have the money for a luxury car then you should also have the money to pay for repairs, no?
-- If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
The need for certified wizards - balderdash
by
fnj
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
"Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem?"
Er, yes. Well, not literally yes, because mine is a 1999 VW, and I don't need to open the hood. I spent a couple hundred bux on something called a VAG-COM (VAG-COM) that hooks up the OBD-II connector of any reasonably recent VW/Audi to a Windows notebook. It reads out the diagnostic codes in plain english - something like "temperature sensor shorted to ground" or "MAF signal intermittent" or whatever. It does a lot of other helpful stuff, too.
Many other brands have similar tools available.
The hood comes into the equation only because mine actually opens, and I can actually change out the temperature sensor after finding out that it is bad. But even if I had an Audi A2, if I knew a mechanic with the ability to get inside, at least I could tell him never mind the diagnosis, I want part such-and-such changed.
Now, as it happens, I don't choose to do much of my own work, but I did find out my MAF was bad, and changed it out. I bought the part from the internet for 1/5 what the stealership would have charged, and changed it literally in 5 minutes, a pliers-only job which probably would have been at least $200 for diagnosis and labor, not counting parts, at the stealership.
Setting the morons straight
by
Anita+Coney
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
A lot of people here are saying, "What's the big deal, we never fix our own cars anyway?!" And they are mostly right. Other than changing my battery, I would never repair my own car.
However, they are missing the larger picture. If the manufacturer is the only entity that can repair the vehicle, the profit will not come from the sale but from the repair.
And once the repair of the vehicle becomes the means of profit, manufacturers will have NO incentive to make quality automobiles. They will have every incentive to create automobiles that WILL require repairs, because that would fit perfectly with their new business model.
-- If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Slashdot Mirror
Besides, what happens when the radio transmitter breaks?
Personally, I think that the union of computers and internal combustion engines is just plain stupid. One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/ Plus, I am mechanically inclined and often it is cheaper and easier for me to do my own maintenance and minor repairs. Welding the engine hood shut is doubly stupid. What if there is an engine fire?
-- SKYKING, SKYKING, DO NOT ANSWER.
the article says only a volvo mechanic would be able to remove the bonnet... basically the whole front end. You think your mechanic will want to remove the whole front end just to replace a $5 part that would take 30 minutes, that will now take 2 hours? Of course they do get paid by the hour, so maybe it is a way of getting more shop time....
>The whole front of the car is moulded in one >piece which can be removed only by a Volvo >mechanic.
Great, so you can pay $40+ (USD) for an oilchange, along with god knows what a dealer charges for the rest of the routine maintence.
I mean, ok, so the cars geared for women, and we know they can't do their own maintence, but what if they have an ounce of common sense and realize theres no reason to pay dealer prices?
Actually, the article just seems to be about the reinforcement of stereotypes that women don't want to get their hands dirty fixing the car. The concept car is supposed to be "feminine", and quotes some woman about how she never wants to go under the hood. Stereotypes flourish in Scandinavia!
Now I can't be the only one who finds the generalizations made in the article offensive! And I'm not a woman and by no means some earthy-crunchy sensitive 90's-type guy.
On top of that, the concept is stupid. There are things that people (yes, even women) can do themselves under the hood of their own car. What's next? Welding our computer cases shut? (or at least making better "void your warranty" stickers)
so, did the women who designed it think that something under the hood would never break or that the car is disposable? Were the women who designed this some high maintaince women whos daddys/husbands buy them everything?
If it breaks under the hood how do you fix it????????????
Evolution or ID?
Don't buy the car, it doesn't sell you won't see others like it.
-- taking over the world, we are.
Just because some woman's organization thinks the only reason some women want to look under the bonnet is to add washer fluid doesn't mean females want to trek their car into a mechanic to check their oil or change a fuse (my fuse box is under the bonnet!).
Women gripe about how mechanics always treat them badly and try to take advantage of them anyway - why enable that by making a car that you can't check out, even if you wanted to?
I'm not particularly convinced by this car... what happens if it breaks down on the motorway? Do you have to call the Volvo break down service? How about a dead battery? Or just flat one when you need a jump-start? What if you want to get an oil-change at a garage round the corner? It strikes me as the kind of thing a car maker would do to increase their slice of the servicing market, much like some up-market cars that have rare or very odd parts so that only "authorised garages" are likely to be able to do anything beyond chancingin the oil...
Most of the other design features also sound more like bunch of men were having a laugh as to what a woman wants in a car... like being able to colour-coordinate with your clothes... Please!!!
I guess doing this kind of design study is a good way of getting publicity though, even made it onto slashdot...
Robin
The analogy is flawed. Not having access to the source code of a program does not mean that you can not troubleshoot or perform basic maintenance on it.
A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged, it would be like not being able to use anti-virus software.
Source code isn't everything. I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday. It could be argued that a closed source easy-troubleshootable program is actually easy to fix than an opensource program whose developers don't give a crap about trying to help people troubleshoot.
Many vehicles are designed to have "minor" service with "major" pain. Ever look under the hood of a minivan? Good luck changing the fuel injectors, or a spark plug. Most of these will require removal of at least the intake manifold's upper plenum (along with accessories), if not dropping the engine cradle.
For many people, a "welded" hood already exists - they don't want to open it anyway. It's not for me (I wrench my own cars - rebuilding my own transmission this weekend). But for others, why not. A welded hood is not much of a difference than the way my father-in-law treats his Cadillac anyway.
I think this is a terrible idea.
Oh yeah, and as a woman who can't afford to go to a mechanic every time my car needs a fluid topoff, I think this would suck a lot.
I think it would discourage people from doing routine maintenance on their vehicles and from being able to figure out problems before heading to the mechanic.
When I go to mechanics, they often try to rip me off or tell me I need more parts than I do. One of them tried to get me to buy a new radiator when I already knew I only needed a coolant overflow tank (because the radiator was full and only the overflow tank was consistently empty).
Sure, if a person's not going to do any maintenance anyway, whatever. But this is basically like saying "rip me off, pretty please, I have no idea what this car does or what's under the hood!"
Additionally - what happens when you need a jump, or when your battery needs replaced? Even the most technologically inept woman I've ever met can be talked through a battery installation. What happens if your battery dies a hundred miles from the nearest Volvo dealership?
that women would never want to open the hood to their car, or that women came up with the concept (that women would never want to open the hood)?
;)
Of course, from the article: The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
Bull. This is up there with the three bits (or whatever) of encryption on DVDs as the lamest attempt at obfuscation. The next day, after hitting the showroom, Autozone would have a 3 dollar wrench to open this bastard. And I bet anyone with an IQ over 10 could pop this badboy off with a screwdriver and a little leverage. That's probably all this Volvo mechanic would do after tiring of this Feature.
A clumsy kludge that has no point other than being a big pain in the ass. Really, does having access to you're car's naughty bits in any way effect driving? This is the New Coke of car innovations.
Besides, the only Swedish vehicle worth sitting in is a Saab Draken.
What is music when you despise all sound?
if you really desire the days of mechanical points for the ignition system then you can have them buddy.
90% of all horsepower increase achievements have came from electronic and computerized engine management. There are things you CANNOT do with mechanical ignition timing and engine management.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While I doubt that cars have reached this point, there will come a time when it makes economic sense to "weld the hood shut." Building a nice easy-open car hood does cost money. If a car were as reliable as most consumer electronics, there would be little reasons for most people to get inside the hood on a routine basis. Cars are n't there yet, but as engine reliability increases, there will be less reason to get under the hood and thus less reason to pay for all the parts and mechanisms needed to made a door on the front of the car.
/. and someone hacker out their will have done something interesting inside their car radio)
When was the last time you needed get inside your car's radio? (OK, I know I posting on
The point is that if the cost of providing access exceeds the benefits of providing access, then you get products with "no user servicable parts inside."
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
This won't cost more - it'll cost less. At least for those of us buying relatively new vehicles. For the rest of you saps buying 5-10 year old vehicles - EAT MY SEALED CARS DUST!!!
And if the person who's going to buy your car off you when it's 5 years old can't open the hood to fix it themselves, how much do you think they're going to pay you for it? You'll buy a nice shiny new plastic piece of crap with zero resale value.
The vision just popped into my head of dozens of these cars at 10 years old or so driving around major cities with no hood, because the owner ripped it off and left it off.
Volvo hot-rod, anyone? Problem is, I'm sure the practical V6 with hundreds of wires and sensors, so cluttered that you can't even see the engine, won't look nearly as impressive as a chromed 396 big block chevy.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
I'd cut a hatch and add a latch and some hinges so I could access the engine compartment. I like doing my own minor maintenance and repairs.
OK, I let your first comment go, but this is the second time you have made this outrageous claim. Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem? Even the mechanics at the dealership need to hook the engine up to the diagnostic computers these days. I could understand doing repairs on older cars, say circa 1995 and older, but give me a break. I am mechanically inclined as well, but I wouldn't even attempt to repair anything inside the engine of a 2004 car. Expect maybe the washer fluid reservoir, or replace a broken cap. Exactly the parts you could access in this new Volvo.
Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
Sure, welding the hood shut is a very provocative step, and the majority of the comments are about "stopping on a highway" etc. You think you can fix engine problems on new, modern cars yourself? Think again. I have many times over stripped my 90' volvo 245 EEC engine, and that I can fix, but my motherns new Renault? No way. Don't even know where to start. Modern car engines are extremly complicated and compact, and they contain a LOT of stuff that wasn't there on your ol' chevy. You might know the error, but you even can't find/reach the component! You actually do need specialist help to fix you'r car these days, or at least you need a extra trailer with equipment and tools. I doubt the majority of the people who talk about the "stranded on the side of a highway" actually have ever tried to fix something on a car built this millenium.
When in doubt, act determined. Business 101
I have to disagree. The advantages of modern engine control are huge. Computer control has given us tons in terms of increased efficiency and horsepower, decreased emissions, and increased integration between components; IE when you stomp on the gas, the computer turns off the A/C for a few seconds to divert power to the drivetrain.
Computer engine control was kind of rough when it first started being used; the computers died a lot, they were susceptible to sensor failure, etc. Now they're way better, and engines are FAR more reliable than they were before computers.
I for one don't want to go back to the days of carburetors and distributors. Fuel injection and coil packs or coil-on-plug, along with the computer(s) to control them, have made cars LOADS more reliable. Sure, it may be harder to work on them, but you don't NEED to work on them nearly as much.
Try taking a 1969 car and driving it 120,000 miles without doing anything more than changing the oil.
Also, I find that in most cases it's EASIER to work on my car with a computer. Without a computer you only know if there's something wrong if it's bad enough to cause serious performance degradation. With a computer, you can catch problems way before they become serious. I had a light a few months ago, went to the auto parts store, borrowed their scanner, saw that I had a stuck EGR valve, wrenched it off, cleaned it, and replaced it. Without the computer I'd never have had a clue, just kept polluting more than necessary, and possibly fouling my catalytic converter as well.
I do have to agree about the shut hood though. I'd never even consider buying a car like this, or letting anyone in my family buy one.
I think they're missing a bit by saying this is "for women" - most men never do anything under the hood, either; I know men that are more hopeless mechanically than many women I know. One of the best mechanics I've ever had was female. I think the whole thing is kind of insulting.
They'll put a fire-axe right through it, and pump water in. Simple. They're not trying to protect the paintwork, but stop it exploding. Dinging the hood is the least of their worries :-P
I'd like a car with easily removable/exchangable seat cushions myself. I could have a plush set for regular/city use, and a vinyl set for when we go to the beach, head out to sail, going camping, or anything else that tends to get the interior dirty.
Except sooner or later I'll probably moot this whole idea and replace my Cherokee with a Wrangler or old CJ with a totally washable "interior" and use it as our beach/tow/camping vehicle, with my wife's Hyundai reserved for "civilized" driving.
(BTW, my wife checks oil and other necessary fluids often. I don't think she'd want a car where she couldn't do that easily.)
- Robin
but I'd never ask my wife to stand on the side of a US interstate with the hood up, waiting for who-the-hell-knows to stop... that's a recipe for disaster in some parts of the country. Now, I myself stop for people from time to time (it's my medic's instinct to see if they need help), but I don't expect them to trust me... and if they hint I should drive on, I always do so.
That's what cell phones are for... I'm not trying to insult you here, so please don't take it that way, but I'd never leave my wife dependent on the kindness of strangers.
Like I say, maybe it's different in England.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
What are you going to do anyway? The overwhelming majority of people I know do not carry a full set of tools in their car, and even if they do, they carry little to no spare parts. So you break down. You can perform Manly Car Manuever #1: open the hood and stare at the engine. Even if you can diagnose the problem, what are you going to do without replacement parts?
And the ability to open the hood here means you can not only perform MCM #1 (detailed above), but you can do #'s 2 and 3: Freeze your ass off while doing it, and cuss at it.
Oh, you're one of those zealots. Now I understand the basis for your objection. Religious issues...
There's nothing that says a person can't know how the car works, and still not want to... or be able to, even!... perform their own maintenance on that car. The concepts here are, frankly, brilliant in that they take into account the existing desires of the target market. A lot has been written here about "reinforcing stereotypes", but the fact remains that most people (men and women) do not perform their own maintenance. Ergo, make the car so they don't have to.
A better article on this project, which is called "Your Concept Car" or YCC, can be found at http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article= 6907 and explains some of the features in more detail, including the big one: the first maintenance stop is at 35,000 miles.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
You know, there is a real advantage to a sealed hood/bonnet: stiffness. I would bet that the modern hood is a real PITA to car structural designers who look at that big unstressed hood and weep.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
So does the BBC article:
The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
The headline was only misleading to the extent that it didn't mention the "designed for women by women" angle--that it's not Volvo wanting to seal everyone's hood, just those of women. So they aren't attacking open source, they're attacking respect for women. Which is kind of worse if you stop and think about it.
Cars manufactures have changed over the years. At one time Honda really was significantly more reliable than Ford. Many people have let Honda slide on this reputation for years, paying for more, for a car that isn't really any better than something that others can give.
Hondas have problems too. Fords have problems. I don't know who builds the better car this year, and we can't know for 20 years. Until then it is just a guess. Some years Honda builds good cars, some years they don't. People are willing to forgive Honda for a bad car because "everyone has a few problems", but Ford with just as many problems just adds to their reputation of not building good cars. It isn't right.
Well,
if you have the money for a luxury car then you should also have the money to pay for repairs, no?
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
"Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem?"
Er, yes. Well, not literally yes, because mine is a 1999 VW, and I don't need to open the hood. I spent a couple hundred bux on something called a VAG-COM (VAG-COM) that hooks up the OBD-II connector of any reasonably recent VW/Audi to a Windows notebook. It reads out the diagnostic codes in plain english - something like "temperature sensor shorted to ground" or "MAF signal intermittent" or whatever. It does a lot of other helpful stuff, too.
Many other brands have similar tools available.
The hood comes into the equation only because mine actually opens, and I can actually change out the temperature sensor after finding out that it is bad. But even if I had an Audi A2, if I knew a mechanic with the ability to get inside, at least I could tell him never mind the diagnosis, I want part such-and-such changed.
Now, as it happens, I don't choose to do much of my own work, but I did find out my MAF was bad, and changed it out. I bought the part from the internet for 1/5 what the stealership would have charged, and changed it literally in 5 minutes, a pliers-only job which probably would have been at least $200 for diagnosis and labor, not counting parts, at the stealership.
A lot of people here are saying, "What's the big deal, we never fix our own cars anyway?!" And they are mostly right. Other than changing my battery, I would never repair my own car.
However, they are missing the larger picture. If the manufacturer is the only entity that can repair the vehicle, the profit will not come from the sale but from the repair.
And once the repair of the vehicle becomes the means of profit, manufacturers will have NO incentive to make quality automobiles. They will have every incentive to create automobiles that WILL require repairs, because that would fit perfectly with their new business model.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.