Posted by
michael
on from the welding-torches-work-both-ways dept.
An Ominous Cow Erred writes "A common argument used by open source advocates (myself included) in favor of open source is the simple question: 'Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?' According to an article from the BBC, Volvo thinks the way of the future may be exactly that."
It's a car for women!
by
wayward_son
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· Score: 5, Funny
As if having they care if the hood is welded shut./go ahead, mod me down, you know it's true.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
tiled_rainbows
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Sad but true: this is a Volvo "Concept Car" (ie automotive vaporware) that was designed "for women by women".
However, the whole article does read like something out of the Onion. Changable multi-coloured seat covers to match your clothes? If it wasn't true it would be a sexist joke.
I was talking with my wife about this and she said she likes having a bonnet that lifts up, as it acts as a kind of "distress flag" when she's waiting on the hard shoulder with a knackered car, hoping some good samaritan will pull over and help her out. I know that this, too, sounds like a sexist joke, but my wife said it first, and she's a woman, so that's OK, I guess.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Araneas
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· Score: 5, Funny
Same for the Volvo concept car. I have visions of the windscreen (windshield) covered with flaming petrol (benzene) because someone got the fill points mixed up.
And yes I know there would be some safety device to prevent this and I know there would be no ignition mechanism. Maybe I have been watching Zoolander too much. Besides - you know some guy is going to have to do it.;)
Re:It's a car for women!
by
the_mad_poster
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· Score: 5, Funny
What the hell are you, some kind of Canadian? Petrol? Petrol Entry Point? BONNET!?!
Get me mah shootin' stick maw.....
It's GAS which goes in the GAS TANK which sure as hell isn't under the HOOD of the car!
Next thing you know, you'll be telling me you use a "Gay-raj" instead of a "car hole"?
-- Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Re:It's a car for women!
by
ThogScully
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· Score: 4, Informative
I call BS. Water in your brake lines would boil the first time you tapped the brakes. Brake fluid doesn't boil for hundreds of degrees where as water would boil just coming near your brakes. Once it boils, you've got no brake pressure and you better hope your parking brake has some tension. -N
-- I've nothing to say here...
Re:It's a car for women!
by
dayve
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· Score: 3, Informative
Actually, some VW Beetles (the old ones, not the new ones) had the gas filler under the "hood".
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Jane_Dozey
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· Score: 4, Funny
Now how can I get a man to fix my car if the hood is welded shut??
-- Silly rabbit
Re:It's a car for women!
by
aspeer
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Having mis-spent my youth employed as a petrol pump jockey for several years, I can state with certainty that no matter how big the PETROL and WATER stickers are, it will only be a matter of time before petrol goes where the water should and vice-versa.
And I am not singling out females here, it could just be as easily be a male. I once saw a guy who had both the radiator and oil caps off (because they were both low) proceed to put *oil* into to radiator. He (almost) immediately realised the mistake, but it was too late to do anything but flush the radiator.
Also hope they have some sort of interlock where only one can open at a time, or what is stopping you accidentally splashing water into the petrol outlet when filling up the washer tank ?
Not that I really care that much, can't really see this taking off..
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Roblimo
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I'd like a car with easily removable/exchangable seat cushions myself. I could have a plush set for regular/city use, and a vinyl set for when we go to the beach, head out to sail, going camping, or anything else that tends to get the interior dirty.
Except sooner or later I'll probably moot this whole idea and replace my Cherokee with a Wrangler or old CJ with a totally washable "interior" and use it as our beach/tow/camping vehicle, with my wife's Hyundai reserved for "civilized" driving.
(BTW, my wife checks oil and other necessary fluids often. I don't think she'd want a car where she couldn't do that easily.)
- Robin
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Total_Wimp
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· Score: 5, Funny
"sounds like a sexist joke"
I was in dismay as I read this. Basically you can change anything cosmetic but you can't change anything substanttive. I wracked my brain to think up any other product that's gone this route and finally found one: Windows.
You can chage the wallpaper, but you can't change the web browser. You can change the system font, but you can't upgrade the kernel.
I tried to think of what this all means and then it suddenly struck me. Of course, it's right in the aritcle! Windows was designed by women for women.
Now that I understand the Windows niche I can take real action in my life. The girlfriend will get my old Windows machine ("honey, what did you do with my Mac?") and I'm getting the real OS designed by men for men. It may look like crap, but I know I can change any file with complete confidence. Thank god for MS-DOS, the real-mans operating system.
TW
Re:It's a car for women!
by
sulli
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· Score: 4, Funny
Re:It's a car for women!
by
cdrudge
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· Score: 5, Informative
Huh? Brake fluid isn't compressable either. You don't want compressable things when maximum pressure is required.
Water could be used as a brake fluid if it wasn't for two things: corrosion and boiling point. The components of the brake system would quickly rust or otherwise corrode with water in the system. Also brakes get very hot and the water would boil off.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
cHiphead
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· Score: 5, Funny
you underestimate the desires of a man to get to play with fire to unweld your hood.
--
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Tmack
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· Score: 5, Informative
No, water, same as most any liquid, is not compressable. What it DOES do that brake fluid does not, is boil at a relatively low temp. The friction from the pads against the disc/drum heats up all your brake components, disc/drum/pads/calipers/fluid/etc. Once heated, the water would boil, creating steam pockets in your brakeline, and steam (a gas) is VERY compressable.
Just realize the parent is flamebait and move along, nothing to see here.
Tm
--
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
Re:It's a car for women!
by
zero_offset
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Actually, if you're in slow-moving traffic, your brakes may not heat up much at all. Most regular brake fluid (e.g. not hi-temp racing fluid) has a wet-boiling temperature in the neighborhood of 300 degrees F -- not much higher than the boiling point of water. Also, even if the temp does peak above 212 F, brakes actually cool down fairly fast, especially at such low temperatures. In regular around-town driving, you may not boil enough water to create any noticable effect.
Where he'll get into trouble is when he needs brakes the most -- a panic stop, or slowing down coming off that highway off-ramp, for example. Temperatures will elevate for an extended period of time, the water will boil, the pedal goes to the floor, and the local mortician scores another $10K for services rendered.
Longer term, that much water in the lines will cause severe corrosion of the brake lines and possibly inside the caliper.
(Personally, I think the whole thing is a troll.)
--
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Unregistered
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· Score: 3, Funny
Windows was designed by women for women.
Actually, i get the feeling that windows wasn't designed at all. More like crashing a Yugo into a parts truck, imo.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Pisco
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· Score: 3, Funny
To hell with the boiling point, (in Canada) I'm more concerned about the FREEZING point!!
Re:It's a car for women!
by
WinterSolstice
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· Score: 5, Informative
Well, Porsche used to have the oil fill port as well as the fuel fill port accessible from the exterior.
This was *very* short lived (I think it was 71 or 72) because people are amazingly capable of screwing things up.
-WS
-- An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
zakezuke
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· Score: 3, Informative
What the hell are you, some kind of Canadian? Petrol? Petrol Entry Point? BONNET!?
I find it odd that anyone would find the use of these terms humorous. I buy Haynes manuals, and in fact learned the terms from their manual. While I don't typicaly use bonnet or boot, I would not even question the use of these terms. Esp petrol which makes the most sence, as it's short for petroleum.
Gas makes the least sence as gas it self is like air, whther it be methane, propane, hydrogen, or what you get after eating AM/PM food. Not that it's not a good term to use for auto fuel, just it's far too generic. "Can we drive to the *metro area* and go dancing tonight" "I have gas honey".
-- There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary.
SHUT UP!
There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
ultranova
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Steam engines also get vented. Steam trapped in a brake line cannot vent, and therefore will compress. Decrease in fluid volume will result in the brake pedal dropping to the floor and no pressure being applied to the brakes.
Take a kettle full of water. Shut it airtight, preferably welded shut. Put it onto stove. Turn on the stove. Let it boil. Kaboom.
When gas is compressed, it's internal pressure raises. The same is true for fluid, however, with fluid, the internal pressure rises much more rapidly. That is why we can consider fluids uncompressable for practical applications; they compress, but that compression is negligible under "normal" pressures.
When steam is wented, it's pressure *drops*. If it is compressed, it's pressure *raises* (obviously, because otherwise you could compress it infinitely). If you want maximum pressure, take a closed system, fill it with liquid, make sure it has nowhere to expand to, and heat it up till the liquid boils.
Anyway, if your brake fluid would boil (and the brake system could withstand the resulting pressure), the brake would lock on "on". You wouldn't lose pressure, you would have too much of it.
--
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Roblimo
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· Score: 3, Funny
I *had* changeable seat covers in that limo, Lee.
You don't think I wasted the *good* ones on you, did you?:)
(Seriously, removable and washable seat covers are a great things to have, but I bet Volvo would charge way too much for them.)
- Robin
Re:It's a car for women!
by
schovanec
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· Score: 3, Funny
people are amazingly capable of screwing things up
No kidding. Even if the fuel nozzle physically won't fit in the washer fluid hole, somebody somewhere will still manage to spray gasoline out of their washers.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Merk
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Gas is short for gasoline. Petrol is short for petroleum. You don't put
petroleum in a car, otherwise really bad things happen.
Before cars, there were both boots and trunks.
Trunks were big cases used for storing things, like clothing. Boots were the things you put your feet inside. Which one of those two better describes how the storage area in your car is used?
Hood is the only one that doesn't have a strong case for it. Both hoods and bonnets are typically head coverings. Neither makes much sense when it comes to describing part of a car, but neither is better than the other.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
soft_guy
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· Score: 3, Informative
Apparantly, Homer objects to the fancy terms used, including the term "garage"
Apparently you are wrong. (We forgive you - in fact we pity you for not having seen the episode.) Home uses the term "Garage" and Moe objects to his "fancy use of language" (as do Lenny and Carl). Homer asks "So what do you call it?"
The Apple iCar
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 4, Funny
Ah. The Apple iCar. Brought to you buy the same guys who designed the "battery dies, throw it away" iPod.
When my iCar is low on oil, I park it in a city lot, scratch off the VIN, remove the license plate, and walk away. Then it is off to Apple to buy another one.
One thing to note for people who don't actually read the article, this is a car that is not only just a concept, but is a concept aimed at the type of women who would never open the hood anyway.
My thoughts exactly. In fact, it's completely misleading.
The "Hood" is one peice, so there is no "hatch" like a traditional car. But it's still removable for access. The headline suggests the engine is completely sealed off to prevent anyone but the manufacturer from touching the insides.
Also, you make an interesting point about the type of people that would buy this car for the same rasons it was designed this way ("wold never oen the hood anyway"). From the article:
"So we shifted the filling station for washer fluid to the side of the car, next to where you fill up fuel, and we closed the bonnet for good."
Now taking bets on how often gasoline ends up in the washer fuild or vice versa!
The car should be programmed to discover any problems under the bonnet, then send a message to the garage to let them know.
Well that's something I don't particularly care for...
The mechanics would then contact the women directly to invite them over....too easy...:)
"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically....said Ms Temm optimistically, while sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck...
So they have implemented a body scanning system...
The results of which are also sent to the mechanics so they can decide if they need to contact the driver directly and invite them to their shop! =Smidge=
The headline suggests the engine is completely sealed off to prevent anyone but the manufacturer from touching the insides.
So does the BBC article:
The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
The headline was only misleading to the extent that it didn't mention the "designed for women by women" angle--that it's not Volvo wanting to seal everyone's hood, just those of women. So they aren't attacking open source, they're attacking respect for women. Which is kind of worse if you stop and think about it.
There's something about trusting the mechanics to tell me when my car's broken that I don't really like...
Besides, what happens when the radio transmitter breaks?
Re:Mechanics?
by
blahlemon
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· Score: 3, Insightful
The front molding is all one piece that comes off with a specialized tool. It said in the article that only a Volvo technician could take it off. Obvioiusly because they wouldn't sell the tools to the mass market.
Not that specialized tools is a new idea. Car companies have been doing that for years to try and get people to bring their cars back to the dealer for repairs.
-- It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
"Hey, Bob, can you do me a favor while I'm filling out this paperwork and take the bonnet off that car so we can do the oil change." "The What?" "The bonnet." "You mean the welded hood?" "It's called a bonnet." "Whatever. Sissy boy." "What was that?" "Nothing. I'm just working on that BONNET for you. Let me know if you want me to fill up your panties as well."
My mechanic would never lie to me! He always charges me a fair price for my weekly fill-up of "blinker fluid".
I hope you don't let him use just any old blinker fluid when you can get KaleCo High Quality Synthetic Blinker Fluid for just $5.99. Help save wear and tear on your flash-synchros while saving our petroleum reserves at the same time.
There's something about trusting the mechanics to tell me when my car's broken that I don't really like...
But how else would we know what our boss feels like when we say the harddrive just died on the RAID attached to the mailserver, and even though the machine is chugging along just fine, we really do need a new disk?
Personally, I think that the union of computers and internal combustion engines is just plain stupid. One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/ Plus, I am mechanically inclined and often it is cheaper and easier for me to do my own maintenance and minor repairs. Welding the engine hood shut is doubly stupid. What if there is an engine fire?
The car should be programmed to discover any problems under the bonnet, then send a message to the garage to let them know.
The mechanics would then contact the women directly to invite them over.
Is it me, or do I have a dirty mind this afternoon?;)
-- Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Re:Nice Quote!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3, Funny
Ha ha.
Dear Mrs Svensson,
Please come over to the Orebro garage - I need to tweak your flange.
Lars.
ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?
by
dark404
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· Score: 5, Funny
What happens when the engine overheats or you get in an accident and the engine is on fire?
"I'm sorry mr. firefighter, only a certified volvo firefighter is allowed to put out this fire"
Re:ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?
by
dave420
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· Score: 3, Insightful
They'll put a fire-axe right through it, and pump water in. Simple. They're not trying to protect the paintwork, but stop it exploding. Dinging the hood is the least of their worries:-P
just my opinion
by
greechneb
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· Score: 4, Insightful
the article says only a volvo mechanic would be able to remove the bonnet... basically the whole front end. You think your mechanic will want to remove the whole front end just to replace a $5 part that would take 30 minutes, that will now take 2 hours? Of course they do get paid by the hour, so maybe it is a way of getting more shop time....
Re:just my opinion
by
wayward_son
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· Score: 4, Funny
This is a Volvo we're talking about here. There aren't any $5 parts on a Volvo. (At least in the U.S.)
Screw That!
by
xianzombie
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· Score: 4, Insightful
>The whole front of the car is moulded in one >piece which can be removed only by a Volvo >mechanic.
Great, so you can pay $40+ (USD) for an oilchange, along with god knows what a dealer charges for the rest of the routine maintence.
I mean, ok, so the cars geared for women, and we know they can't do their own maintence, but what if they have an ounce of common sense and realize theres no reason to pay dealer prices?
By women, for women?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Actually, the article just seems to be about the reinforcement of stereotypes that women don't want to get their hands dirty fixing the car. The concept car is supposed to be "feminine", and quotes some woman about how she never wants to go under the hood. Stereotypes flourish in Scandinavia!
Now I can't be the only one who finds the generalizations made in the article offensive! And I'm not a woman and by no means some earthy-crunchy sensitive 90's-type guy.
On top of that, the concept is stupid. There are things that people (yes, even women) can do themselves under the hood of their own car. What's next? Welding our computer cases shut? (or at least making better "void your warranty" stickers)
missing a step
by
millahtime
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· Score: 3, Insightful
so, did the women who designed it think that something under the hood would never break or that the car is disposable? Were the women who designed this some high maintaince women whos daddys/husbands buy them everything?
If it breaks under the hood how do you fix it????????????
Simple Solution
by
aliens
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Don't buy the car, it doesn't sell you won't see others like it.
-- --
taking over the world, we are.
Not a new idea
by
Stackster
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· Score: 4, Interesting
The Audi A2, which actually is _in production_ (and has been for a couple of years) has a "locked" hood/bonnet too. There's just a small hatch where you can fill up washer fluid and cooling water .
--
There are 010 kinds of people. Those who understand octal, those who don't, and 06 other kinds of morons.
Re:Not a new idea
by
DocSnyder
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· Score: 4, Informative
The Audi A2, which actually is _in production_ (and has been for a couple of years) has a "locked" hood/bonnet too.
The A2's hood is not really locked shut, it's only held differently compared to other cars. After unlocking two quick-out knobs, you can lift the hood (about 9 kg) off and access everything without the hood being in the way.
Re:Not a new idea
by
checkyoulater
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I'd cut a hatch and add a latch and some hinges so I could access the engine compartment. I like doing my own minor maintenance and repairs.
OK, I let your first comment go, but this is the second time you have made this outrageous claim. Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem? Even the mechanics at the dealership need to hook the engine up to the diagnostic computers these days. I could understand doing repairs on older cars, say circa 1995 and older, but give me a break. I am mechanically inclined as well, but I wouldn't even attempt to repair anything inside the engine of a 2004 car. Expect maybe the washer fluid reservoir, or replace a broken cap. Exactly the parts you could access in this new Volvo.
-- Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
That's just silly
by
lovelee
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Just because some woman's organization thinks the only reason some women want to look under the bonnet is to add washer fluid doesn't mean females want to trek their car into a mechanic to check their oil or change a fuse (my fuse box is under the bonnet!).
Women gripe about how mechanics always treat them badly and try to take advantage of them anyway - why enable that by making a car that you can't check out, even if you wanted to?
Welded shut in a car designed by and for women...
by
ravind
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· Score: 5, Interesting
So the question to ask, when queried about the benefits of open source is: "Are you a man?":D
In fact you could also put that on a t-shirt - "Real Men Use Linux"
breakdown service??
by
ponxx
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I'm not particularly convinced by this car... what happens if it breaks down on the motorway? Do you have to call the Volvo break down service? How about a dead battery? Or just flat one when you need a jump-start? What if you want to get an oil-change at a garage round the corner? It strikes me as the kind of thing a car maker would do to increase their slice of the servicing market, much like some up-market cars that have rare or very odd parts so that only "authorised garages" are likely to be able to do anything beyond chancingin the oil...
Most of the other design features also sound more like bunch of men were having a laugh as to what a woman wants in a car... like being able to colour-coordinate with your clothes... Please!!!
I guess doing this kind of design study is a good way of getting publicity though, even made it onto slashdot...
Robin
Business Venture!
by
beware1000
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· Score: 4, Funny
anyone wanna join in on a business that produces 'warranty void if seal broken' stickers? There seems to be a rapidly growing market for it...
Car welded shut is illegal in this country
by
EvilTwinSkippy
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· Score: 4, Interesting
IBM lost several anti-trust cases based on exclusive service agreements with customers, and invalidating warrenties for user-installed parts. (The big three also tried these shenanigans back in the day, AND LOST.)
I don't know what the legal precidents are in Europe, but in the US Volvo would be laughed out of court if someone sued.
-- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Only a Volvo mechanic? *snicker*
by
curtisk
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· Score: 3, Interesting
What are they intending to do, design a custom bolt system and tool that ONLY Volvo can get their hands on? I believe GM has tried that in the past "..only use GM tool #xxxxx to remove"
Please.....if someone wants that hood(bonnet) off , its coming off.....Volvo certified or not
It's amazing what improv tools mechanics can come up with
You know, there is a real advantage to a sealed hood/bonnet: stiffness. I would bet that the modern hood is a real PITA to car structural designers who look at that big unstressed hood and weep.
The analogy is flawed. Not having access to the source code of a program does not mean that you can not troubleshoot or perform basic maintenance on it.
A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged, it would be like not being able to use anti-virus software.
Source code isn't everything. I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday. It could be argued that a closed source easy-troubleshootable program is actually easy to fix than an opensource program whose developers don't give a crap about trying to help people troubleshoot.
Word just quit on me... some sort of internal error, okay, how to I troubleshoot it =)
Source code isn't everything
Why yes... there's configuration files, so if your programme crashes in 640x480 resolution then...
I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday
What exactly to you mean my maintenance, and if it's so easy why do you do it every day?
A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged
Defragging a HD is one operation. Having the hood open lets you change many things. Do you see the distinction?
The analogy is flawed
Smiles politely. Oh all right, I fell down laughing =) =) =) =)
--
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
This bears watching
by
onyxruby
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· Score: 4, Interesting
This bears watching, especially since a "special" mechanics tool will be required to remove the one piece front end. Stick a "void if removed" warranty sticker over the "special" tool hole, enlist the DMCA and you've got an engine that can never legally be maintained by the owner. If you really want to go whole hog you call the "special" tool a security device and DMCA the car itself.
Just think, cars of the future could be the permanent property of the automotive world. You wouldn't but them, you would license them. I understand Idrive from BMW has a license sticker installed on the windshield that you are forced to accept (by removing) in some countries in order to use the car. All of this could be done with the law as it is today. Circumvention could be prosecuted under the DMCA.
Manufactures would love this because it would force people to get their maintence, even routine maintenence would have to be done at the dealership at their extremely expensive rates. Rates so expensive an entire industry literaly grew up around alternative service options.
Now for the outlandish. This would be a good thing - because it would show joe sixpack how licensing and the DMCA are uncapitalistic and harmful. Your plumber may not give two hoots about a computer, but you can be sure he'll raise hell if he finds out he can't change his own oil or give the old jalolopee to his kids.
Re:This bears watching
by
EvilTwinSkippy
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· Score: 4, Informative
IBM tried this with their mainframes and lost. Case law already states this type of activity is illegal on anti-trust grounds. I'm pretty sure the big-three automakers tried similar tactics, and were also laughed out of court.
Besides, you aren't copying the car. The DMCA doesn't apply.
-- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
They don't have to weld the hood shut.
by
cblguy
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Modern auto engineering is about packing as many options in as little space as possible - all while allowing room to cool the engine.
Many vehicles are designed to have "minor" service with "major" pain. Ever look under the hood of a minivan? Good luck changing the fuel injectors, or a spark plug. Most of these will require removal of at least the intake manifold's upper plenum (along with accessories), if not dropping the engine cradle.
For many people, a "welded" hood already exists - they don't want to open it anyway. It's not for me (I wrench my own cars - rebuilding my own transmission this weekend). But for others, why not. A welded hood is not much of a difference than the way my father-in-law treats his Cadillac anyway.
Oh yeah, and as a woman who can't afford to go to a mechanic every time my car needs a fluid topoff, I think this would suck a lot.
I think it would discourage people from doing routine maintenance on their vehicles and from being able to figure out problems before heading to the mechanic.
When I go to mechanics, they often try to rip me off or tell me I need more parts than I do. One of them tried to get me to buy a new radiator when I already knew I only needed a coolant overflow tank (because the radiator was full and only the overflow tank was consistently empty).
Sure, if a person's not going to do any maintenance anyway, whatever. But this is basically like saying "rip me off, pretty please, I have no idea what this car does or what's under the hood!"
Additionally - what happens when you need a jump, or when your battery needs replaced? Even the most technologically inept woman I've ever met can be talked through a battery installation. What happens if your battery dies a hundred miles from the nearest Volvo dealership?
One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/
I know! These things are WAY too susceptible to the side effects of a nuclear blast! That's why I drive 100% mechanical vehicles from the mid seventies or earlier. The rest of you ninnies are going to look really dumb when the next EMP comes around! HA! HA HA HA!
What is more insulting
by
sielwolf
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· Score: 3, Insightful
that women would never want to open the hood to their car, or that women came up with the concept (that women would never want to open the hood)?
Of course, from the article: The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
Bull. This is up there with the three bits (or whatever) of encryption on DVDs as the lamest attempt at obfuscation. The next day, after hitting the showroom, Autozone would have a 3 dollar wrench to open this bastard. And I bet anyone with an IQ over 10 could pop this badboy off with a screwdriver and a little leverage. That's probably all this Volvo mechanic would do after tiring of this Feature.
A clumsy kludge that has no point other than being a big pain in the ass. Really, does having access to you're car's naughty bits in any way effect driving? This is the New Coke of car innovations.
Besides, the only Swedish vehicle worth sitting in is a Saab Draken.;)
-- What is music when you despise all sound?
This sounds kinda like OSS vs proprietary software
by
Ride-My-Rocket
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· Score: 3, Interesting
"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.
<snip>
"It is minimal maintenance, really, because the customers have limited time and they don't want a car that gives them a lot of hassle," said Ms Christiansen.
I realize this is just a concept car, so I'm not going to get too worked up about this. But this attitude does seems to be an analogue to the open-source vs closed-source software situation.
What this car relies upon is for nothing to go wrong, and for the internal diagnostics to catch any issues or errors that occur. Which is good, because it means most drivers -- who don't know much about how cars work -- will only need to interact with their car in a very cursory way. However, this attitude of welding the hood shut can also work against your average driver. For example, what if you want to add more oil to your car? Even if they redesigned the car so that you could check oil levels or add more oil easily, just as they moved the wiper fluid to more accessible location, what if you wanted to change your own oil, and save $30-$50? You couldn't, and in an emergency, you would need the help of a certified Volve mechanic to remove the hood. To me, this sounds kinda like Windows -- it's really easy to use and designed to take care of most problems, but when things invariably do go wrong, there's not much you can do to investigate (assuming you have the technical expertise, of course).
Right now, cars are kinda clunky and they might not have as much sophisticated diagnostics in place as this concept car, but you can get at everything when you need to. I can't see consumers giving this now that they have it, just as I can't see the open-source movement doing anything but making progress and gaining mind-/market-share in the coming years.
Volvo cars are not made by Volvo Corporation!
by
a-aiyar
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· Score: 3, Informative
The link to Volvo is wrong. Volvo has nothing to do with Volvo cars. Volvo Corporation makes trucks, marine engines, aircraft engines, and used to make cars. The automobile division was sold to Ford about 7 years ago. The correct link is VolvoCars. Long-time Volvo enthusiasts, such as myself (who loved our 140s, 240, and 740s) are somewhat skeptical of the quality of the newer Volvo cars made under Ford management. For instance the latest S40 (due out this spring) shares a common platform with the Ford Focus and the Mazda 3, but costs about twice as much because of the Volvo branding.
No seriously, it *is* a car for women - RTA
by
blorg
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· Score: 5, Informative
Volvo's new concept car, launched at the Geneva motor show, is a car designed by women for women. [...] [The car] was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind. [...] And for women with ponytails, there is even a split in the middle of the headrest. "It is very uncomfortable to drive with a ponytail," said Ms Christiansen.
if you really desire the days of mechanical points for the ignition system then you can have them buddy.
90% of all horsepower increase achievements have came from electronic and computerized engine management. There are things you CANNOT do with mechanical ignition timing and engine management.
-- Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Roadside Breakdown - Hood Up == Distress
by
AgTiger
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Other people have mentioned the Roadside Breakdown aspect, but I don't think anyone's touched on this aspect yet:
Having the hood of a car up is a well recognized sign of vehicle breakdown, and that the driver could probably use assistance.
In my area of the world, if the police see a vehicle with the hood up without their own yellow police tape attached to the vehicle (to indicate they've dealt with this vehicle already), they'll stop and offer assistance.
How, exactly, is the driver of one of these vehicles supposed to use this very simple and well understood signal? Madly flag down drivers and risk getting run over?
And this is only ONE example of what a bad idea this vehicle is.
Re:remote diagnostics
by
enrico_suave
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· Score: 4, Informative
I'm not sure I'd trust remote diagonstics...
Car manufacturers do insidious things with their ability to "code" stuff into the onboard computer.
For example nissan purposely ratcheted down the HP of one of their cars in software/firmware and then of course sells an "add on kit" where you get that hp "back" for $$$.
Say nothing of the idiot light's that go on ("ooooh check engine, I'm scared.. I better pull over and get towed to a dealership right away!") at specified intervals/mileage to have people bring in their cars for a manufacturers recommended fleecing.
(note sometimes check engine does indicate a "real" problem... or an emissions issue... YMMV... and if your oil light comes on, for the love of god don't continue driving it for an hour till the engine siezes... pull over and call your husband and/or put some damn oil in!!!! Wait, was that my "outside voice/text"?)
Reliability vs. Cost of Access
by
G4from128k
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· Score: 3, Insightful
While I doubt that cars have reached this point, there will come a time when it makes economic sense to "weld the hood shut." Building a nice easy-open car hood does cost money. If a car were as reliable as most consumer electronics, there would be little reasons for most people to get inside the hood on a routine basis. Cars are n't there yet, but as engine reliability increases, there will be less reason to get under the hood and thus less reason to pay for all the parts and mechanisms needed to made a door on the front of the car.
When was the last time you needed get inside your car's radio? (OK, I know I posting on/. and someone hacker out their will have done something interesting inside their car radio)
The point is that if the cost of providing access exceeds the benefits of providing access, then you get products with "no user servicable parts inside."
-- Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Re:HONDAS dont break
by
cbiltcliffe
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· Score: 5, Insightful
This won't cost more - it'll cost less. At least for those of us buying relatively new vehicles. For the rest of you saps buying 5-10 year old vehicles - EAT MY SEALED CARS DUST!!!
And if the person who's going to buy your car off you when it's 5 years old can't open the hood to fix it themselves, how much do you think they're going to pay you for it? You'll buy a nice shiny new plastic piece of crap with zero resale value.
The vision just popped into my head of dozens of these cars at 10 years old or so driving around major cities with no hood, because the owner ripped it off and left it off.
Volvo hot-rod, anyone? Problem is, I'm sure the practical V6 with hundreds of wires and sensors, so cluttered that you can't even see the engine, won't look nearly as impressive as a chromed 396 big block chevy.
-- "City hall" in German is "Rathaus"
Kinda explains a few things......
Of course this wouldn't be the case with cars built with plastic frames.
Time to be a Volvo mechanic (cha-ching!)
by
codefool
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· Score: 5, Funny
YCC Chick: What seems to be wrong with my car?
Tow Truck Driver: Welp, it seems you've done busted a fan belt.
YCCC: Golly! Can you fix it? I mean, I'm stuck out here in the rain in the middle of nowhere.
TTD: No problem, little lady. Fan belts aint't no real trick. Happens all the time.
YCCC: Will it cost very much? I mean, I just spent all my money on this groovy car built by women, for women.
TTD: The fan belt will cost you about twelve bucks, but the installtion will be about twelve-hundred.
YCCC: WTF!?
TTD: Welp, you see we gotta tow this honey to a Volvo dealer, and they have to take the front end apart to install the fan belt. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days.
YCCC: (crying) But, its so easy to refill the washer fluid...
You DON'T fix a modern car by yourself
by
Squashee
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Sure, welding the hood shut is a very provocative step, and the majority of the comments are about "stopping on a highway" etc. You think you can fix engine problems on new, modern cars yourself? Think again.
I have many times over stripped my 90' volvo 245 EEC engine, and that I can fix, but my motherns new Renault? No way. Don't even know where to start. Modern car engines are extremly complicated and compact, and they contain a LOT of stuff that wasn't there on your ol' chevy. You might know the error, but you even can't find/reach the component!
You actually do need specialist help to fix you'r car these days, or at least you need a extra trailer with equipment and tools. I doubt the majority of the people who talk about the "stranded on the side of a highway" actually have ever tried to fix something on a car built this millenium.
I have to disagree. The advantages of modern engine control are huge. Computer control has given us tons in terms of increased efficiency and horsepower, decreased emissions, and increased integration between components; IE when you stomp on the gas, the computer turns off the A/C for a few seconds to divert power to the drivetrain.
Computer engine control was kind of rough when it first started being used; the computers died a lot, they were susceptible to sensor failure, etc. Now they're way better, and engines are FAR more reliable than they were before computers.
I for one don't want to go back to the days of carburetors and distributors. Fuel injection and coil packs or coil-on-plug, along with the computer(s) to control them, have made cars LOADS more reliable. Sure, it may be harder to work on them, but you don't NEED to work on them nearly as much.
Try taking a 1969 car and driving it 120,000 miles without doing anything more than changing the oil.
Also, I find that in most cases it's EASIER to work on my car with a computer. Without a computer you only know if there's something wrong if it's bad enough to cause serious performance degradation. With a computer, you can catch problems way before they become serious. I had a light a few months ago, went to the auto parts store, borrowed their scanner, saw that I had a stuck EGR valve, wrenched it off, cleaned it, and replaced it. Without the computer I'd never have had a clue, just kept polluting more than necessary, and possibly fouling my catalytic converter as well.
I do have to agree about the shut hood though. I'd never even consider buying a car like this, or letting anyone in my family buy one.
I think they're missing a bit by saying this is "for women" - most men never do anything under the hood, either; I know men that are more hopeless mechanically than many women I know. One of the best mechanics I've ever had was female. I think the whole thing is kind of insulting.
The funniest thing is
by
The+Tyro
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· Score: 3, Funny
the quote about Volvo's CEO:
"a mood encouraged by women-friendly Volvo boss Hans-Olov Olsson."
Hmmmm... that's a curious statement open to misinterpretation. Now what'd they mean by that, eh?... exactly how "women-friendly" is he? wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more... (sorry... BBC article... had to throw that in...)
-- Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.
Cool. This is really a good idea from a user interface point of view, and one which makes the UNIX shell so nice to work with. If you get no response from the shell command, it means that things went just fine.
Speaking of welded-shut motor hoods... you know, I'd hate to cruise down the highway and see the warning message on the panel: "You have shifted into fifth gear. The change will take effect after you have restarted the motor. Restart now? [Yes] [No]"...
--Bud
Maybe it's different in England
by
The+Tyro
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· Score: 4, Insightful
but I'd never ask my wife to stand on the side of a US interstate with the hood up, waiting for who-the-hell-knows to stop... that's a recipe for disaster in some parts of the country. Now, I myself stop for people from time to time (it's my medic's instinct to see if they need help), but I don't expect them to trust me... and if they hint I should drive on, I always do so.
That's what cell phones are for... I'm not trying to insult you here, so please don't take it that way, but I'd never leave my wife dependent on the kindness of strangers.
Like I say, maybe it's different in England.
-- Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Re:Maybe it's different in England
by
AlecC
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· Score: 5, Interesting
I'd be inside it with the doors locked
Current advice in Britain is not to wait inside your car if the weather permits because of the remarkably high chance of getting shunted - hard - by another vehicle. You should get out of the vehicle and as far from the road as possible (e.g. behind the crash barrier). Basically, your chance of getting hit by a massive truck is much greater than your chance of a bad guy spotting you and stopping. I can't remember the fraction of accidents involving breakdowns on the side of the road, but I remember being startled by it. Emergency services now park their vehicle about 20 yards behind the breakdown to ensure that, if there is a hit, it is the empty emergency service van that gets hit. Even so, and despite their being covered with flashing lights, they still get hit.
You need a sense of priorities. Outside know "no go" areas, ordinary "innocent" traffic is a far greater danger than muggers, serial killers etc.
-- Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
Re:Maybe it's different in England
by
rkww
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· Score: 5, Interesting
You need a sense of priorities.
The Automobile Association (AA) - one of the UK's major roadside assistance organisations - has the following advice:
"There is a perception that a 'lone female' is at risk of being attacked on a motorway hard shoulder. Research shows that the risk of being hit by another vehicle is much greater."
Re:Maybe it's different in England
by
slipgun
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· Score: 5, Funny
Thats because in America, we have shoulders on our roads, instead of barely the width of 2 cars.
English roads are generally designed with steering-wheels in mind.
Men can have ponytails too.
by
hpulley
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· Score: 4, Interesting
I'm a man and wore a ponytail for about 8 years or so and I can say that it did get in the way a little when putting my head against the headrest -- a topknot worked fine but doesn't suit me most of the time... Most cars don't put your head close enough to the headrest that this matters (or that they actually prevent whiplash) but in cars like Volvos where they are close, it does matter.
-- $#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
Porsche Boxster anyone?
by
OlivierB
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· Score: 3, Interesting
For the richest ones out there.
Buyingg a POrsche Boxster is surely not the best choice if you want to get a crowd when opening the bonnet.
The ONLY thing you can see is the Oil jauge!
The engine in placed in the center of the car (unlike 911s whose engines are at the back end).
This also means that you cannot easily make some parts replacements yourself.
The best thing for sealed bonnets/ difficult to access engines is not about warranties for the manufacturers but for the servifce they charge.
That's right changing the dyno in a Porsche boxster can only be done by a dealer as you have to lower the WHOLE engine. That means a lot of billable hours for one single part. Thank god Porsches are the most reliable sport cars out there.
-- Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Re:Porsche Boxster anyone?
by
MKalus
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Well,
if you have the money for a luxury car then you should also have the money to pay for repairs, no?
-- If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
Re:Porsche Boxster anyone?
by
lucifuge31337
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· Score: 3, Informative
Boxters aren't exactly expensive in comparision to real Porsches (real meaning 911s). Furthermore, 911's are exactly a treat to work on. They have most of the same issues with accessing anything.
Fortunately, they both have 2 things going for them:
1.) The engine placement is not to screw the owner. It is there because it makes the weight of the vehicle properly balanced for suspension perfoemnce.
2.) It's not actually all THAT had to drop the motors in these things. While I've never dropped the motor in the Boxter, I've done sone on 911's and VW Beetles (the old body style) more times than I can count (remember, the beetle is designed after the 911, and is very similar in construction), I'm told they are much the same. Your' looking at a couple of harnesses, and about 6 bolts. If you have a proper transmission style jack, it's not really a big deal. Anyone without these facilities (or the desire to get them) probably doesn't need to be monkeying around with their engine to begin with.
And most importantly, this really has little to do with the article. The Volvo concept car mentioned in it is really a totally different animal with different design goals in mind.
-- Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Re:I nominate this...
by
BlackHawk
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· Score: 3, Insightful
The scenario that comes most easily to mind is that of the car breaking down on the highway. What are you going to do, without a cellphone, without being able to access the hood?
What are you going to do anyway? The overwhelming majority of people I know do not carry a full set of tools in their car, and even if they do, they carry little to no spare parts. So you break down. You can perform Manly Car Manuever #1: open the hood and stare at the engine. Even if you can diagnose the problem, what are you going to do without replacement parts?
What if the temp outside is subzero and you're 5 miles from the nearest inhabitant?
And the ability to open the hood here means you can not only perform MCM #1 (detailed above), but you can do #'s 2 and 3: Freeze your ass off while doing it, and cuss at it.
Crits aside though, the car is pretty nice, and it is also good to see that we are able to make cars easier for the dumba^H^H^H^H^Hnormal people who drive cars and don't want to be concerned with how their car works.
Oh, you're one of those zealots. Now I understand the basis for your objection. Religious issues...
There's nothing that says a person can't know how the car works, and still not want to... or be able to, even!... perform their own maintenance on that car. The concepts here are, frankly, brilliant in that they take into account the existing desires of the target market. A lot has been written here about "reinforcing stereotypes", but the fact remains that most people (men and women) do not perform their own maintenance. Ergo, make the car so they don't have to.
A better article on this project, which is called "Your Concept Car" or YCC, can be found at http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article= 6907 and explains some of the features in more detail, including the big one: the first maintenance stop is at 35,000 miles.
--
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
This isn't 1970 anymore!
by
bluGill
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Cars manufactures have changed over the years. At one time Honda really was significantly more reliable than Ford. Many people have let Honda slide on this reputation for years, paying for more, for a car that isn't really any better than something that others can give.
Hondas have problems too. Fords have problems. I don't know who builds the better car this year, and we can't know for 20 years. Until then it is just a guess. Some years Honda builds good cars, some years they don't. People are willing to forgive Honda for a bad car because "everyone has a few problems", but Ford with just as many problems just adds to their reputation of not building good cars. It isn't right.
The need for certified wizards - balderdash
by
fnj
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· Score: 3, Insightful
"Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem?"
Er, yes. Well, not literally yes, because mine is a 1999 VW, and I don't need to open the hood. I spent a couple hundred bux on something called a VAG-COM (VAG-COM) that hooks up the OBD-II connector of any reasonably recent VW/Audi to a Windows notebook. It reads out the diagnostic codes in plain english - something like "temperature sensor shorted to ground" or "MAF signal intermittent" or whatever. It does a lot of other helpful stuff, too.
Many other brands have similar tools available.
The hood comes into the equation only because mine actually opens, and I can actually change out the temperature sensor after finding out that it is bad. But even if I had an Audi A2, if I knew a mechanic with the ability to get inside, at least I could tell him never mind the diagnosis, I want part such-and-such changed.
Now, as it happens, I don't choose to do much of my own work, but I did find out my MAF was bad, and changed it out. I bought the part from the internet for 1/5 what the stealership would have charged, and changed it literally in 5 minutes, a pliers-only job which probably would have been at least $200 for diagnosis and labor, not counting parts, at the stealership.
Setting the morons straight
by
Anita+Coney
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· Score: 5, Insightful
A lot of people here are saying, "What's the big deal, we never fix our own cars anyway?!" And they are mostly right. Other than changing my battery, I would never repair my own car.
However, they are missing the larger picture. If the manufacturer is the only entity that can repair the vehicle, the profit will not come from the sale but from the repair.
And once the repair of the vehicle becomes the means of profit, manufacturers will have NO incentive to make quality automobiles. They will have every incentive to create automobiles that WILL require repairs, because that would fit perfectly with their new business model.
-- If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
What's wrong with everyone. It's a concept Car.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3, Interesting
It's not a production model. It's a concept car to test different concepts. There are various good concepts in the car. All the diffirent ways to get more storage room are really great. Hopefully, those storage ideas all make it into some model. The idea of having a separate port for the window washer is great. Why open the entire hood when you just need to refill the window washer.
Some ideas will make it to production cars, some will not. The maintenance free idea is probably everyone's dream. I see it as an extension of the hybrid car. The petrol/gasoline engine doesn't run as much and also runs at it's more efficient setting, so it takes more miles on the vehicle to require servicing. No radiator fluid is needed, because the smaller engine produces less heat. All the other parts probably follow the standard service periods. We all know approximately how long rubber belts will last before they fail. It's practically the same for almost every car. We know approximately how long batteries last. Tires have their own service periods, which is much longer than than the oil change and tune-up. It's a lower maintenance car.
When we get fuel cells and get rid of the petrol/gasoline engine, there will be even less parts to worry about failing. Electric motors last quite a long time. No more sparc plugs or engine oil changes. Just a fuel cell, which has non-moving parts, similar to a battery. Time between maintenance will certainly stretch beyond the 31,000 miles on volvo's concept car.
My grandmother is about 80 years old and from rural Oklahoma. She refers to that part of a car as a "turtle hull". Apparently a common expression among country people.
--
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Re:It's a car for the clueless
by
einTier
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· Score: 4, Interesting
My 1988 Toyota Celica did the same thing. It had several neat tricks like this.
First, if you had the headlights on and turned off the car, they would stay on until you opened the door. Opening the door with the lights on and ignition switched off caused them to go off. But, this could be overridden by simply switching the lights back on. Then they wouldn't go back off until you turned them off.
Second, if you had the keys in the ignition and the door open, you couldn't lock the power door locks. Well, you could, but they would spring open a half second later, no matter if you locked it manually or with the button. Better yet, you couldn't trick this one. I once had the door open, took the keys out, locked the car, then deliberately put the key back in the ignition. Then I shut the locked door. The Celica detected the locked door, the fact that it was shutting, and the fact that my keys were in the car, and unlocked the door! The only way to lock the keys in the car was somehow lock the door while it was already shut (meaning you were in the car or had an extra set) or by leaving them on the seat instead of the ignition (as I accidently did one wintery night).
I've often wondered why this wasn't implimented in more cars. It was unobtrusive, never interfered with how I wanted to use the car and kept me from hurting myself. That's the epitome of good design.
-- --------------------------------------------------
$665.95 -- retail price of the beast.
Slashdot Mirror
As if having they care if the hood is welded shut. /go ahead, mod me down, you know it's true.
thats why they make grinders
Ah. The Apple iCar. Brought to you buy the same guys who designed the "battery dies, throw it away" iPod.
When my iCar is low on oil, I park it in a city lot, scratch off the VIN, remove the license plate, and walk away. Then it is off to Apple to buy another one.
One thing to note for people who don't actually read the article, this is a car that is not only just a concept, but is a concept aimed at the type of women who would never open the hood anyway.
The headline should have been much, much clearer.
Besides, what happens when the radio transmitter breaks?
Personally, I think that the union of computers and internal combustion engines is just plain stupid. One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/ Plus, I am mechanically inclined and often it is cheaper and easier for me to do my own maintenance and minor repairs. Welding the engine hood shut is doubly stupid. What if there is an engine fire?
-- SKYKING, SKYKING, DO NOT ANSWER.
The car should be programmed to discover any problems under the bonnet, then send a message to the garage to let them know.
The mechanics would then contact the women directly to invite them over.
Is it me, or do I have a dirty mind this afternoon? ;)
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
"I'm sorry mr. firefighter, only a certified volvo firefighter is allowed to put out this fire"
the article says only a volvo mechanic would be able to remove the bonnet... basically the whole front end. You think your mechanic will want to remove the whole front end just to replace a $5 part that would take 30 minutes, that will now take 2 hours? Of course they do get paid by the hour, so maybe it is a way of getting more shop time....
>The whole front of the car is moulded in one >piece which can be removed only by a Volvo >mechanic.
Great, so you can pay $40+ (USD) for an oilchange, along with god knows what a dealer charges for the rest of the routine maintence.
I mean, ok, so the cars geared for women, and we know they can't do their own maintence, but what if they have an ounce of common sense and realize theres no reason to pay dealer prices?
Actually, the article just seems to be about the reinforcement of stereotypes that women don't want to get their hands dirty fixing the car. The concept car is supposed to be "feminine", and quotes some woman about how she never wants to go under the hood. Stereotypes flourish in Scandinavia!
Now I can't be the only one who finds the generalizations made in the article offensive! And I'm not a woman and by no means some earthy-crunchy sensitive 90's-type guy.
On top of that, the concept is stupid. There are things that people (yes, even women) can do themselves under the hood of their own car. What's next? Welding our computer cases shut? (or at least making better "void your warranty" stickers)
so, did the women who designed it think that something under the hood would never break or that the car is disposable? Were the women who designed this some high maintaince women whos daddys/husbands buy them everything?
If it breaks under the hood how do you fix it????????????
Evolution or ID?
Don't buy the car, it doesn't sell you won't see others like it.
-- taking over the world, we are.
The Audi A2, which actually is _in production_ (and has been for a couple of years) has a "locked" hood/bonnet too. There's just a small hatch where you can fill up washer fluid and cooling water .
There are 010 kinds of people. Those who understand octal, those who don't, and 06 other kinds of morons.
Just because some woman's organization thinks the only reason some women want to look under the bonnet is to add washer fluid doesn't mean females want to trek their car into a mechanic to check their oil or change a fuse (my fuse box is under the bonnet!).
Women gripe about how mechanics always treat them badly and try to take advantage of them anyway - why enable that by making a car that you can't check out, even if you wanted to?
So the question to ask, when queried about the benefits of open source is: "Are you a man?" :D
In fact you could also put that on a t-shirt - "Real Men Use Linux"
I'm not particularly convinced by this car... what happens if it breaks down on the motorway? Do you have to call the Volvo break down service? How about a dead battery? Or just flat one when you need a jump-start? What if you want to get an oil-change at a garage round the corner? It strikes me as the kind of thing a car maker would do to increase their slice of the servicing market, much like some up-market cars that have rare or very odd parts so that only "authorised garages" are likely to be able to do anything beyond chancingin the oil...
Most of the other design features also sound more like bunch of men were having a laugh as to what a woman wants in a car... like being able to colour-coordinate with your clothes... Please!!!
I guess doing this kind of design study is a good way of getting publicity though, even made it onto slashdot...
Robin
anyone wanna join in on a business that produces 'warranty void if seal broken' stickers? There seems to be a rapidly growing market for it...
What if there is an engine fire?
Then you need a fire engine.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Geez, I was looking for Kent Brockman's byline at the top of that.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I don't know what the legal precidents are in Europe, but in the US Volvo would be laughed out of court if someone sued.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Please.....if someone wants that hood(bonnet) off , its coming off.....Volvo certified or not
It's amazing what improv tools mechanics can come up with
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
The Audi A2 is halfway towards this concept. It doesn't have a bonnet (hood) as such, just a small flap to check oil and water levels.
Don.
Slashdot - The Home of the Tortured Analogy
The analogy is flawed. Not having access to the source code of a program does not mean that you can not troubleshoot or perform basic maintenance on it.
A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged, it would be like not being able to use anti-virus software.
Source code isn't everything. I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday. It could be argued that a closed source easy-troubleshootable program is actually easy to fix than an opensource program whose developers don't give a crap about trying to help people troubleshoot.
This bears watching, especially since a "special" mechanics tool will be required to remove the one piece front end. Stick a "void if removed" warranty sticker over the "special" tool hole, enlist the DMCA and you've got an engine that can never legally be maintained by the owner. If you really want to go whole hog you call the "special" tool a security device and DMCA the car itself.
Just think, cars of the future could be the permanent property of the automotive world. You wouldn't but them, you would license them. I understand Idrive from BMW has a license sticker installed on the windshield that you are forced to accept (by removing) in some countries in order to use the car. All of this could be done with the law as it is today. Circumvention could be prosecuted under the DMCA.
Manufactures would love this because it would force people to get their maintence, even routine maintenence would have to be done at the dealership at their extremely expensive rates. Rates so expensive an entire industry literaly grew up around alternative service options.
Now for the outlandish. This would be a good thing - because it would show joe sixpack how licensing and the DMCA are uncapitalistic and harmful. Your plumber may not give two hoots about a computer, but you can be sure he'll raise hell if he finds out he can't change his own oil or give the old jalolopee to his kids.
Many vehicles are designed to have "minor" service with "major" pain. Ever look under the hood of a minivan? Good luck changing the fuel injectors, or a spark plug. Most of these will require removal of at least the intake manifold's upper plenum (along with accessories), if not dropping the engine cradle.
For many people, a "welded" hood already exists - they don't want to open it anyway. It's not for me (I wrench my own cars - rebuilding my own transmission this weekend). But for others, why not. A welded hood is not much of a difference than the way my father-in-law treats his Cadillac anyway.
I think this is a terrible idea.
Oh yeah, and as a woman who can't afford to go to a mechanic every time my car needs a fluid topoff, I think this would suck a lot.
I think it would discourage people from doing routine maintenance on their vehicles and from being able to figure out problems before heading to the mechanic.
When I go to mechanics, they often try to rip me off or tell me I need more parts than I do. One of them tried to get me to buy a new radiator when I already knew I only needed a coolant overflow tank (because the radiator was full and only the overflow tank was consistently empty).
Sure, if a person's not going to do any maintenance anyway, whatever. But this is basically like saying "rip me off, pretty please, I have no idea what this car does or what's under the hood!"
Additionally - what happens when you need a jump, or when your battery needs replaced? Even the most technologically inept woman I've ever met can be talked through a battery installation. What happens if your battery dies a hundred miles from the nearest Volvo dealership?
I know! These things are WAY too susceptible to the side effects of a nuclear blast! That's why I drive 100% mechanical vehicles from the mid seventies or earlier. The rest of you ninnies are going to look really dumb when the next EMP comes around! HA! HA HA HA!
that women would never want to open the hood to their car, or that women came up with the concept (that women would never want to open the hood)?
;)
Of course, from the article: The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.
Bull. This is up there with the three bits (or whatever) of encryption on DVDs as the lamest attempt at obfuscation. The next day, after hitting the showroom, Autozone would have a 3 dollar wrench to open this bastard. And I bet anyone with an IQ over 10 could pop this badboy off with a screwdriver and a little leverage. That's probably all this Volvo mechanic would do after tiring of this Feature.
A clumsy kludge that has no point other than being a big pain in the ass. Really, does having access to you're car's naughty bits in any way effect driving? This is the New Coke of car innovations.
Besides, the only Swedish vehicle worth sitting in is a Saab Draken.
What is music when you despise all sound?
"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.
<snip>
"It is minimal maintenance, really, because the customers have limited time and they don't want a car that gives them a lot of hassle," said Ms Christiansen.
I realize this is just a concept car, so I'm not going to get too worked up about this. But this attitude does seems to be an analogue to the open-source vs closed-source software situation.
What this car relies upon is for nothing to go wrong, and for the internal diagnostics to catch any issues or errors that occur. Which is good, because it means most drivers -- who don't know much about how cars work -- will only need to interact with their car in a very cursory way. However, this attitude of welding the hood shut can also work against your average driver. For example, what if you want to add more oil to your car? Even if they redesigned the car so that you could check oil levels or add more oil easily, just as they moved the wiper fluid to more accessible location, what if you wanted to change your own oil, and save $30-$50? You couldn't, and in an emergency, you would need the help of a certified Volve mechanic to remove the hood. To me, this sounds kinda like Windows -- it's really easy to use and designed to take care of most problems, but when things invariably do go wrong, there's not much you can do to investigate (assuming you have the technical expertise, of course).
Right now, cars are kinda clunky and they might not have as much sophisticated diagnostics in place as this concept car, but you can get at everything when you need to. I can't see consumers giving this now that they have it, just as I can't see the open-source movement doing anything but making progress and gaining mind-/market-share in the coming years.
The link to Volvo is wrong. Volvo has nothing to do with Volvo cars. Volvo Corporation makes trucks, marine engines, aircraft engines, and used to make cars. The automobile division was sold to Ford about 7 years ago. The correct link is VolvoCars. Long-time Volvo enthusiasts, such as myself (who loved our 140s, 240, and 740s) are somewhat skeptical of the quality of the newer Volvo cars made under Ford management. For instance the latest S40 (due out this spring) shares a common platform with the Ford Focus and the Mazda 3, but costs about twice as much because of the Volvo branding.
Volvo's new concept car, launched at the Geneva motor show, is a car designed by women for women. [...] [The car] was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind. [...] And for women with ponytails, there is even a split in the middle of the headrest. "It is very uncomfortable to drive with a ponytail," said Ms Christiansen.
if you really desire the days of mechanical points for the ignition system then you can have them buddy.
90% of all horsepower increase achievements have came from electronic and computerized engine management. There are things you CANNOT do with mechanical ignition timing and engine management.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Other people have mentioned the Roadside Breakdown aspect, but I don't think anyone's touched on this aspect yet:
Having the hood of a car up is a well recognized sign of vehicle breakdown, and that the driver could probably use assistance.
In my area of the world, if the police see a vehicle with the hood up without their own yellow police tape attached to the vehicle (to indicate they've dealt with this vehicle already), they'll stop and offer assistance.
How, exactly, is the driver of one of these vehicles supposed to use this very simple and well understood signal? Madly flag down drivers and risk getting run over?
And this is only ONE example of what a bad idea this vehicle is.
I'm not sure I'd trust remote diagonstics...
Car manufacturers do insidious things with their ability to "code" stuff into the onboard computer.
For example nissan purposely ratcheted down the HP of one of their cars in software/firmware and then of course sells an "add on kit" where you get that hp "back" for $$$.
Say nothing of the idiot light's that go on ("ooooh check engine, I'm scared.. I better pull over and get towed to a dealership right away!") at specified intervals/mileage to have people bring in their cars for a manufacturers recommended fleecing.
(note sometimes check engine does indicate a "real" problem... or an emissions issue... YMMV... and if your oil light comes on, for the love of god don't continue driving it for an hour till the engine siezes... pull over and call your husband and/or put some damn oil in!!!! Wait, was that my "outside voice/text"?)
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
While I doubt that cars have reached this point, there will come a time when it makes economic sense to "weld the hood shut." Building a nice easy-open car hood does cost money. If a car were as reliable as most consumer electronics, there would be little reasons for most people to get inside the hood on a routine basis. Cars are n't there yet, but as engine reliability increases, there will be less reason to get under the hood and thus less reason to pay for all the parts and mechanisms needed to made a door on the front of the car.
/. and someone hacker out their will have done something interesting inside their car radio)
When was the last time you needed get inside your car's radio? (OK, I know I posting on
The point is that if the cost of providing access exceeds the benefits of providing access, then you get products with "no user servicable parts inside."
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
This won't cost more - it'll cost less. At least for those of us buying relatively new vehicles. For the rest of you saps buying 5-10 year old vehicles - EAT MY SEALED CARS DUST!!!
And if the person who's going to buy your car off you when it's 5 years old can't open the hood to fix it themselves, how much do you think they're going to pay you for it? You'll buy a nice shiny new plastic piece of crap with zero resale value.
The vision just popped into my head of dozens of these cars at 10 years old or so driving around major cities with no hood, because the owner ripped it off and left it off.
Volvo hot-rod, anyone? Problem is, I'm sure the practical V6 with hundreds of wires and sensors, so cluttered that you can't even see the engine, won't look nearly as impressive as a chromed 396 big block chevy.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
According to this article, the metal frame of an automobile acts as a faraday cage and is therefore immune to EMP blasts.o n.htm
http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotecti
Of course this wouldn't be the case with cars built with plastic frames.
Tow Truck Driver: Welp, it seems you've done busted a fan belt.
YCCC: Golly! Can you fix it? I mean, I'm stuck out here in the rain in the middle of nowhere.
TTD: No problem, little lady. Fan belts aint't no real trick. Happens all the time.
YCCC: Will it cost very much? I mean, I just spent all my money on this groovy car built by women, for women.
TTD: The fan belt will cost you about twelve bucks, but the installtion will be about twelve-hundred.
YCCC: WTF!?
TTD: Welp, you see we gotta tow this honey to a Volvo dealer, and they have to take the front end apart to install the fan belt. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days.
YCCC: (crying) But, its so easy to refill the washer fluid...
Give me a freakin break...
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
Sure, welding the hood shut is a very provocative step, and the majority of the comments are about "stopping on a highway" etc. You think you can fix engine problems on new, modern cars yourself? Think again. I have many times over stripped my 90' volvo 245 EEC engine, and that I can fix, but my motherns new Renault? No way. Don't even know where to start. Modern car engines are extremly complicated and compact, and they contain a LOT of stuff that wasn't there on your ol' chevy. You might know the error, but you even can't find/reach the component! You actually do need specialist help to fix you'r car these days, or at least you need a extra trailer with equipment and tools. I doubt the majority of the people who talk about the "stranded on the side of a highway" actually have ever tried to fix something on a car built this millenium.
When in doubt, act determined. Business 101
I have to disagree. The advantages of modern engine control are huge. Computer control has given us tons in terms of increased efficiency and horsepower, decreased emissions, and increased integration between components; IE when you stomp on the gas, the computer turns off the A/C for a few seconds to divert power to the drivetrain.
Computer engine control was kind of rough when it first started being used; the computers died a lot, they were susceptible to sensor failure, etc. Now they're way better, and engines are FAR more reliable than they were before computers.
I for one don't want to go back to the days of carburetors and distributors. Fuel injection and coil packs or coil-on-plug, along with the computer(s) to control them, have made cars LOADS more reliable. Sure, it may be harder to work on them, but you don't NEED to work on them nearly as much.
Try taking a 1969 car and driving it 120,000 miles without doing anything more than changing the oil.
Also, I find that in most cases it's EASIER to work on my car with a computer. Without a computer you only know if there's something wrong if it's bad enough to cause serious performance degradation. With a computer, you can catch problems way before they become serious. I had a light a few months ago, went to the auto parts store, borrowed their scanner, saw that I had a stuck EGR valve, wrenched it off, cleaned it, and replaced it. Without the computer I'd never have had a clue, just kept polluting more than necessary, and possibly fouling my catalytic converter as well.
I do have to agree about the shut hood though. I'd never even consider buying a car like this, or letting anyone in my family buy one.
I think they're missing a bit by saying this is "for women" - most men never do anything under the hood, either; I know men that are more hopeless mechanically than many women I know. One of the best mechanics I've ever had was female. I think the whole thing is kind of insulting.
the quote about Volvo's CEO:
"a mood encouraged by women-friendly Volvo boss Hans-Olov Olsson."
Hmmmm... that's a curious statement open to misinterpretation. Now what'd they mean by that, eh?... exactly how "women-friendly" is he? wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more... (sorry... BBC article... had to throw that in...)
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.
Cool. This is really a good idea from a user interface point of view, and one which makes the UNIX shell so nice to work with. If you get no response from the shell command, it means that things went just fine.
Speaking of welded-shut motor hoods... you know, I'd hate to cruise down the highway and see the warning message on the panel: "You have shifted into fifth gear. The change will take effect after you have restarted the motor. Restart now? [Yes] [No]"...
--Bud
but I'd never ask my wife to stand on the side of a US interstate with the hood up, waiting for who-the-hell-knows to stop... that's a recipe for disaster in some parts of the country. Now, I myself stop for people from time to time (it's my medic's instinct to see if they need help), but I don't expect them to trust me... and if they hint I should drive on, I always do so.
That's what cell phones are for... I'm not trying to insult you here, so please don't take it that way, but I'd never leave my wife dependent on the kindness of strangers.
Like I say, maybe it's different in England.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
I'm a man and wore a ponytail for about 8 years or so and I can say that it did get in the way a little when putting my head against the headrest -- a topknot worked fine but doesn't suit me most of the time... Most cars don't put your head close enough to the headrest that this matters (or that they actually prevent whiplash) but in cars like Volvos where they are close, it does matter.
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
For the richest ones out there. Buyingg a POrsche Boxster is surely not the best choice if you want to get a crowd when opening the bonnet. The ONLY thing you can see is the Oil jauge! The engine in placed in the center of the car (unlike 911s whose engines are at the back end). This also means that you cannot easily make some parts replacements yourself. The best thing for sealed bonnets/ difficult to access engines is not about warranties for the manufacturers but for the servifce they charge. That's right changing the dyno in a Porsche boxster can only be done by a dealer as you have to lower the WHOLE engine. That means a lot of billable hours for one single part. Thank god Porsches are the most reliable sport cars out there.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
What are you going to do anyway? The overwhelming majority of people I know do not carry a full set of tools in their car, and even if they do, they carry little to no spare parts. So you break down. You can perform Manly Car Manuever #1: open the hood and stare at the engine. Even if you can diagnose the problem, what are you going to do without replacement parts?
And the ability to open the hood here means you can not only perform MCM #1 (detailed above), but you can do #'s 2 and 3: Freeze your ass off while doing it, and cuss at it.
Oh, you're one of those zealots. Now I understand the basis for your objection. Religious issues...
There's nothing that says a person can't know how the car works, and still not want to... or be able to, even!... perform their own maintenance on that car. The concepts here are, frankly, brilliant in that they take into account the existing desires of the target market. A lot has been written here about "reinforcing stereotypes", but the fact remains that most people (men and women) do not perform their own maintenance. Ergo, make the car so they don't have to.
A better article on this project, which is called "Your Concept Car" or YCC, can be found at http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article= 6907 and explains some of the features in more detail, including the big one: the first maintenance stop is at 35,000 miles.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
Cars manufactures have changed over the years. At one time Honda really was significantly more reliable than Ford. Many people have let Honda slide on this reputation for years, paying for more, for a car that isn't really any better than something that others can give.
Hondas have problems too. Fords have problems. I don't know who builds the better car this year, and we can't know for 20 years. Until then it is just a guess. Some years Honda builds good cars, some years they don't. People are willing to forgive Honda for a bad car because "everyone has a few problems", but Ford with just as many problems just adds to their reputation of not building good cars. It isn't right.
"Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem?"
Er, yes. Well, not literally yes, because mine is a 1999 VW, and I don't need to open the hood. I spent a couple hundred bux on something called a VAG-COM (VAG-COM) that hooks up the OBD-II connector of any reasonably recent VW/Audi to a Windows notebook. It reads out the diagnostic codes in plain english - something like "temperature sensor shorted to ground" or "MAF signal intermittent" or whatever. It does a lot of other helpful stuff, too.
Many other brands have similar tools available.
The hood comes into the equation only because mine actually opens, and I can actually change out the temperature sensor after finding out that it is bad. But even if I had an Audi A2, if I knew a mechanic with the ability to get inside, at least I could tell him never mind the diagnosis, I want part such-and-such changed.
Now, as it happens, I don't choose to do much of my own work, but I did find out my MAF was bad, and changed it out. I bought the part from the internet for 1/5 what the stealership would have charged, and changed it literally in 5 minutes, a pliers-only job which probably would have been at least $200 for diagnosis and labor, not counting parts, at the stealership.
A lot of people here are saying, "What's the big deal, we never fix our own cars anyway?!" And they are mostly right. Other than changing my battery, I would never repair my own car.
However, they are missing the larger picture. If the manufacturer is the only entity that can repair the vehicle, the profit will not come from the sale but from the repair.
And once the repair of the vehicle becomes the means of profit, manufacturers will have NO incentive to make quality automobiles. They will have every incentive to create automobiles that WILL require repairs, because that would fit perfectly with their new business model.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
It's not a production model. It's a concept car to test different concepts. There are various good concepts in the car. All the diffirent ways to get more storage room are really great. Hopefully, those storage ideas all make it into some model. The idea of having a separate port for the window washer is great. Why open the entire hood when you just need to refill the window washer.
Some ideas will make it to production cars, some will not. The maintenance free idea is probably everyone's dream. I see it as an extension of the hybrid car. The petrol/gasoline engine doesn't run as much and also runs at it's more efficient setting, so it takes more miles on the vehicle to require servicing. No radiator fluid is needed, because the smaller engine produces less heat. All the other parts probably follow the standard service periods. We all know approximately how long rubber belts will last before they fail. It's practically the same for almost every car. We know approximately how long batteries last. Tires have their own service periods, which is much longer than than the oil change and tune-up. It's a lower maintenance car.
When we get fuel cells and get rid of the petrol/gasoline engine, there will be even less parts to worry about failing. Electric motors last quite a long time. No more sparc plugs or engine oil changes. Just a fuel cell, which has non-moving parts, similar to a battery. Time between maintenance will certainly stretch beyond the 31,000 miles on volvo's concept car.
My grandmother is about 80 years old and from rural Oklahoma. She refers to that part of a car as a "turtle hull". Apparently a common expression among country people.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
First, if you had the headlights on and turned off the car, they would stay on until you opened the door. Opening the door with the lights on and ignition switched off caused them to go off. But, this could be overridden by simply switching the lights back on. Then they wouldn't go back off until you turned them off.
Second, if you had the keys in the ignition and the door open, you couldn't lock the power door locks. Well, you could, but they would spring open a half second later, no matter if you locked it manually or with the button. Better yet, you couldn't trick this one. I once had the door open, took the keys out, locked the car, then deliberately put the key back in the ignition. Then I shut the locked door. The Celica detected the locked door, the fact that it was shutting, and the fact that my keys were in the car, and unlocked the door! The only way to lock the keys in the car was somehow lock the door while it was already shut (meaning you were in the car or had an extra set) or by leaving them on the seat instead of the ignition (as I accidently did one wintery night).
I've often wondered why this wasn't implimented in more cars. It was unobtrusive, never interfered with how I wanted to use the car and kept me from hurting myself. That's the epitome of good design.
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