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New Linux Kernel Vulnerability

Stop Or I'll Noop writes "Paul Starzetz writes, "A critical security vulnerability has been found in the Linux kernel memory management code inside the mremap(2) system call due to missing function return value check. This bug is completely unrelated to the mremap bug disclosed on 05-01-2003 except concerning the same internal kernel function code." Full scoop here." Update: 03/07 20:53 GMT by T : This vulnerability (and fixes) were mentioned briefly in an update to this earlier posting.

114 of 486 comments (clear)

  1. Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Space+cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm not sure whether this is a triumph of the distributed nature of the kernel, or a catastrophic failure of the whole model... The mremap() code was presumably
    looked at in great depth just recently, after a critical vulnerability was found. A few weeks go by and another hugely important hole is found...


    Since no special privileges are required to use the mremap(2) system call any
    process may use its unexpected behavior to disrupt the kernel memory management
    subsystem.

    Proper exploitation of this vulnerability leads to local privilege escalation
    giving an attacker full super-user privileges. The vulnerability may also lead
    to a denial-of-service attack on the available system memory.


    Now I know the consequences of a problem bear little relation to its root cause, but I am a little surprised at how this managed to find its way through all these eyes looking at the offending code a week or so ago. Actually making it work as a security hole looks to be reasonably complex, (which may be why it wasn't found, I guess), but if one piece of code can have 2 major vulnerabilities in as many weeks, maybe it's time to start worrying about when Linux *does* take over the desktop...

    I thought the automated 'Stanford Checker' (sp ?) was ideal for this sort of problem ? (Where the returned value from a function is ignored...) Perhaps it was flagged up but took some in-depth analysis for the kernel developers to realise it really was a problem...

    So, is this a master-stroke of the development model, with various people around the world all individually checking code and Hey! Someone found something, or is it a "failure" where all those people missed it the first time around, and it's a pure fluke it was found now.... I'm still not sure, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the model - hey, it's been fixed! :-)

    Simon
    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by whig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd be more inclined to call this a demonstration of the successful "many-eyes" approach. The latest mremap() vulnerability took only a few weeks to be discovered, and the folks publishing it are "eyes" that have alerted kernel developers to the problem.

      --
      Peace and love, y'all
    2. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Liselle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In my humble opinion, it's an unavoidable part of making software. We have to be realistic: closed or open source, as a program gets more and more complex, more elaborate bugs come out, and some of them turn out to be exploitable. Having strict coding guidelines can help, having lots of eyes looking at the code helps, but ninja vulnerabilities will still stealth through.

      My thinking is that Linux on the desktop is going to need a contingency plan for a widespread vulerability, similar to what Microsoft does with Automatic Updates. I know it's not perfect, but I'll be damned if I can think of anything better. It's nice to think you can make a bullet-proof kernel, but also naive.

      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    3. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by H4x0r+Jim+Duggan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeh, but if you read the security report, this problem exists in *all* 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 Linux's - so this local exploit has been sitting there for ~5 years before The Good Guys spotted it.

      That's a long time. Maybe some crackers have been using this exploit during that time (or, of course, maybe they haven't).

    4. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by hobbesmaster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Erm, the problem is that this is a local exploit, not a remote one. I doubt that very many crackers have been using this exploit, because you have to have a local account in the first place to do it.

    5. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by wojci · · Score: 2, Funny
      --
      /wojci
    6. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 5, Informative

      My thinking is that Linux on the desktop is going to need a contingency plan for a widespread vulerability, similar to what Microsoft does with Automatic Updates.

      I'm guessing you don't use Linux then. All major distros release such updates very quickly, and RedHat at least had a desktop icon that alerted users if updates were available. The kernel will get patched if it needs to, but it's up to the distro vendors to include something "idiot proof" to yell if the system needs an update.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    7. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by BlowChunx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the article: Proper exploitation of this vulnerability leads to local privilege escalation giving an attacker full super-user privileges.

      Now, I am not a hacker, but I think after I got local access via another exploit, I would use this current vulnerability to get root, install my back door/zombie code, etc. and leave quietly.

      Every exploit is serious.

    8. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Cobron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but I do have the idea that there are less "Bad guys" in Open Source - land, because of the encouragement to submit bugreports.
      In open source you get acknowledgment from the authors and community, there aren't many other places to search for an ego-boost in closed-source land than on hacker-boards.

      What I mean with the above is that I think that the chances that "Good Guys" spot the error are greater than that "Bad Guys" find and exploit them in OSS than in Closed Source Softw.

    9. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by bickerdyke · · Score: 2, Informative

      gentoo's emerge -U world comes pretty close to an automatic update

      --
      bickerdyke
    10. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yeh, but if you read the security report, this problem exists in *all* 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 Linux's - so this local exploit has been sitting there for ~5 years before The Good Guys spotted it.

      So basically this proves that Linux is just as insecure as Windows is. There have been lots of major kernel vulnerabilities floating around in the past 6 months. I guess it's time to switch to OpenBSD.

    11. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by spitzak · · Score: 4, Informative

      If your eyes were a little wider open you would see that this is NOT A NEW BUG! In fact it is the exact same one (the *second* in mremap(), not the third) as reported in a Slashdot article well over a month ago.

      I actually read the bug report then, and I read it now, and when I got down to the bug explanation (with the lines of X's representing memory) I realized it was the exact same one I had seen before!

    12. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Informative

      uhh...no, see the diffrence is that Linux might have many local exploits that have not been found, but the structure of the OS makes it very hard for a remote exploit.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    13. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by iantri · · Score: 2, Informative
      Automatic Update? Put the following into your crontab at an interval of your choosing:

      On Debian/Red Hat with APT:
      apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade

      On Red Hat with up2date:
      up2date -u

      On Mandrake:
      urpmi.update && urpmi --auto-select

      And so on.. Now obviously these could be imrpoved (i.e. mail the admin if it fails), but auto-updating is a lot easier under Linux.

    14. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, sure... That's great..

      And when something breaks, you'll have no idea what caused it, and you'll have to jump through some hoops to make it work again.

      No thanks.

    15. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Carl+T · · Score: 2, Informative
      RedHat at least had a desktop icon that alerted users if updates were available

      SuSE has a similar thing. Dunno about other distros.

      There are a couple of problem here though:
      There are a number of steps that need to be taken before a patch is installed, and each of them may take quite a bit of time: computer needs to check for patches, mirror server (if any) needs to have patches from main patch server (in my case this is sometimes an issue, but I could go directly to ftp.suse.com, if it's not completely bogged down already), user needs to be alerted, user needs to choose to patch. All this could be done in an automated way, but it would still take some time, during which the machine would be vulnerable.
      And then, after patching, programs or the whole machine may need to be restarted. This can't very well be automated, at least not by default.

      I'm semi-admining a SuSE 8.2 box where the automatic update script emailed me every day with a list of already-installed patches. Stupid. :-P So I got it to not email me. So now I have no clue when I need to reboot, and the machine is probably open to several known vulnerabilities right now.

      I'd say that single(ish)-user machines really need to be properly firewalled, but unfortunately there's no such thing as a satisfactory default policy. (Outgoing IRC traffic, for instance, should be open for IRCers but not for anyone else.) On multi-user machines there's no substitute for vigilant admins.

      --

      This signature is not in the public domain.
    16. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by larry+bagina · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quite a few virtual hosting companies run on linux, and UML is popular for virtual servers. $5 a month could get you a local account on a linux box with a good net connection.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    17. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Ironica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You make a very salient point about why Open-Source software may be less vulnerable to attack than proprietary software. Basically, if you discover a vulnerability in a closed-source program, there is NO honorable way to get recognition or respect for your digging... the best you can do is quietly report it to the company and hope they fix it, knowing they will not usually acknowledge you for reporting it. With OS, you can gain respect and recognition for reporting the vulnerability to the community and helping them fix it. In *both* cases, you generally get no fiscal reward for your work, so the recognition and the fix are all you're motivated by. Therefore OS gives more motivation to report bugs, while proprietary software gives more motivation to exploit bugs.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    18. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by mangu · · Score: 2, Interesting
      And when something breaks, you'll have no idea what caused it,


      No, not at all. IMHO, this is one of the greatest advantages of Linux over Windows: there's a /var/log/messages file which tells you what went wrong. One of the most frustrating tasks in Windows sysadmin is when you are trying to install something and it fails. Often, you have only one choice: reinstall.

    19. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by Ironica · · Score: 4, Funny

      This guy deserves an insightful mod. (emphasis added)

      *ahem*

      [displays 46th chromosome, which is clearly an X]

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    20. Re:Many eyes, but wide open or tight shut ? by CyberDruid · · Score: 3, Funny
      [displays 46th chromosome, which is clearly an X]

      Young lady, on this site we do not expose ourselves in public. The dress code clearly states that skirts must go _below_ the 46:th chromosome.

      --

      Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati

  2. A lot of problems in mremap... by LucidityZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wasn't there a (third) problem with mremap back around summertime too? These all sound like barebones, common mistakes. Who is contributing this source? Was it all the same person? Maybe we should be checking his/her code a bit more closely!

    --
    Sig.i>
    1. Re:A lot of problems in mremap... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe is was Linus, and we should stop accepting his contributions :-)

    2. Re:A lot of problems in mremap... by Hello+this+is+Linus · · Score: 2, Funny

      quiet you. >:(

      --
      Hello, this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux as Linux!
    3. Re:A lot of problems in mremap... by Otter · · Score: 4, Funny
      These all sound like barebones, common mistakes. Who is contributing this source? Was it all the same person? Maybe we should be checking his/her code a bit more closely!

      19 minutes later, and no one has blamed SCO yet? What's wrong with you people today?

  3. Install windows! by Compunerd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Get windows CD
    Boot
    Install

    bah

    --
    Computers are like air conditioners.
    - They stop working when you open Windows.
    1. Re:Install windows! by arose · · Score: 3, Funny

      Reboot in 60 seconds...
      Reboot in 60 seconds...
      Reboot in 60 seconds... ...

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  4. Damn by Broken_Windows · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I really did not want to spend my Sunday patching kernels.

    1. Re:Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't bother. There's no published exploit. Have a beer. Watch the game. Don't worry. Relax. What's your IP?

    2. Re:Damn by Tremanhil · · Score: 2, Funny

      So turn off your PC, pop a bag of Kettle Corn or Pop Secret into the microwave and spend part of your Sunday popping kernals... and the rest watching movies.

      And patch your kernel another day.

  5. dupe by Feyr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    huu dupe? that thing was released over a week ago!

  6. Not a new vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is the same vulderability that was disclosed a few weeks ago. The advisory was updated on March 1st to include exploit code.

  7. I'm guessing that we can expect a patch from SCO? by rivaldufus · · Score: 4, Funny

    After all, if they can expect people to license Linux from them, they should be providing support.

  8. Does this mean... by mcx101 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...I'm going to have to patch the kernels on the Debian servers and reboot again?

    That'll be the third time in as many months.

    --
    My operat~1 system unders~1 long filena~1 , does yours?
    1. Re:Does this mean... by Akoma+The+Immortal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ignorance is a bliss!!

      How can I break my own uptime record of 253 days beetween reboot when you patch all the useless local exploits!?!?! Stop it!!

      14:37:24 up 42 days, 14:38, 1 user, load average: 1.50, 0.48, 0.16

      And comming down because of you!!

      Geeee, those FOSS guys are terrible.

      --
      assert(expired(knowldege)); core dump
  9. Re:Which kernels are effected by Broken_Windows · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the release: Version: 2.2 up to and including 2.2.25, 2.4 up to to and including 2.4.24, 2.6 up to to and including 2.6.2

  10. Well, as they say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    In Linux it's a bug...

    In Windows it's a feature.

  11. Amazing what a one line oversight can do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just compare the time and effort putting together the 3 page write up on the bug to the cost of reviewing and fixing the code in question when it was originally written. I believe the study that found that once the bug leaves the development shop to go to consumers it costs $9000 per line to fix. It's as true in open source as it is for closed source.

    1. Re:Amazing what a one line oversight can do by cperciva · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I believe the study that found that once the bug leaves the development shop to go to consumers it costs $9000 per line to fix.

      That figure depends largely upon how many customers you have and how sophisticated your patch-distribution system is. In pre-internet days, a critical problem might have meant shipping a floppy disk to each of your customers (of course, this reduced the chance of problems being classified as "critical"). Now, most security problems in FreeBSD can be fixed in two minutes using 50kB of bandwidth and binary patches. Most operating systems fall somewhere in the middle, distributing entire files, or even complete packages, every time a one-line security fix is necessary, with the effect of requiring a 50-fold (or more, in the case of packages) increase in bandwidth (and, over slow connections, time).

      Someone from Microsoft explained this to me as "we've got huge amounts of bandwidth, so we really don't need to save bandwidth by using patches"... it doesn't surprise me that Microsoft ignores the fact that delta compression would benefit their customers, but I expected better from Apple or the Linux community.

  12. Re:2.6.3? by say · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oops. That HTML posting problem. This was what I was trying to say:

    Apparently, only <= 2.6.2 is affected. How could this be fixed in 2.6.3 without anyone noticing that it might be a problem in earlier kernels?

    --
    Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
  13. Can someone quickly fix this ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So we can get back to bitching about Window's security flaws :D

  14. Re:Damn (all your base are belong to us) by kompiluj · · Score: 4, Informative

    Oh really? I am running 2.4.25 on my all systems for two weeks already - since the first advisory. Patch or be patched.

    --
    You can defy gravity... for a short time
  15. Not a big deal really by jmoen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Seems like none of the current releases are affected by this anyway. Ref. the article:
    Only version: 2.2 up to and including 2.2.25, 2.4 up to to and including 2.4.24, 2.6 up to to and including 2.6.2

    -jmoen-

  16. "Windows users: want Security, install linux"??? by Padrino121 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slowly but surely as Linux is getting more mainstream it seems the same kind of holes that perpetually plague Windows exist in Linux as well.

    It might be time to take a page from the MS book and take a few weeks for a full line by line audit.

  17. Somewhere . . . by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 5, Funny
    A Giddy Billionaire is scheming:

    Kernel 2.6.4-rc2-bk3: Never, I'll Never turn to the Dark side, I'm open source...like my father before me.

    Bill: So be it, open source

    Bill: if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed (shooting purple lightning bolts)

    Bill: You will pay the price for your lack of vision

    Kernel 2.6.4-rc2-bk3: Linus please (in agony).

    .....to be continued

    I await my -5 (Troll)

  18. From the link... by Spoing · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Synopsis: Linux kernel do_mremap VMA limit local privilege escalation vulnerability

    Local, not remote.

    In general: If an attacker has local access or can gain the equivelent by using a remote access tool, a local exploit can be a problem.

    So, personally I'm not too worried though others with different types of users or configurations might have a high level of concern.

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  19. Old news by phaze3000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is why 2.6.3 was released, as discussed in this slashdot story from the 18th of Feb. The date on the linked article is March 1 - this is a second document on the same vulnerability that gives more details. It was not released at the time to give people a chance to patch.

    --
    Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
  20. known since 18. feb. 2004 by gst · · Score: 5, Informative

    actually this vulnerability was announced on 18. feb. 2004 by isec (see http://lwn.net/Articles/71682/).

    isec just waited some weeks until they released the exploit...

  21. Laymens terms? by oldosadmin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Could someone please say what this vulnerability is in English? That article made my head hurt.

    --
    Jay | http://oldos.org
    1. Re:Laymens terms? by WWWWolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sure. A program can ask the operating system kernel to Do Things. Now, someone has found out that when you ask the kernel to Do Things certain way, the kernel subsequently thinks you are the Boss.

      Like, you have this stack of forms you want the computer signed. You hand them over to the computer. One of the papers is "Do whatever I say" form that would give you the Power. The computer won't read it and just signs it along with the others, then hands you the forms back.

      How's that for an explanation?

  22. Important to Remember by rudy_wayne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When a Windows vulnerability is patched, it is proof that closed source software is evil.

    Wne a Linux vulnerability is patched, it is proof that open source software is wonderful.

    1. Re:Important to Remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      TO DO:

      Log onto slashdot.
      Bash Microsoft.
      Bash the bashers of Microsoft.
      Bash the bashers of the bashers of Microsoft.
      ... ad infinitum

    2. Re:Important to Remember by FattMattP · · Score: 5, Funny
      When a Windows vulnerability is patched, it is proof that closed source software is evil.
      You misspelled if.
      --
      Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
    3. Re:Important to Remember by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 4, Insightful
      When a Windows vulnerability is patched, it is proof that closed source software is evil.

      Wne [sic] a Linux vulnerability is patched, it is proof that open source software is wonderful.

      You know there are -- among the many, many, many open vulnerabilities out there -- two which are particularly problematic for Windows users. (There are many more out there, but I figure I'll focus in on these two for now.

      The first one allows an attacker to mask the real address of the site you're viewing in IE. So, go and open up a spam claiming that Paypal needs you to update your credit card number, and you'll actually see PayPal.com as the URL. The second one allows an attacker to crash IE and exploit arbitrary code when a user views a picture on a web page under IE.

      As a Computer Programmer, I understand how hard it is to create 100% bug free code. Any system as complex as Windows or Linux is bound to contain some bugs and / or vulnerabilities. However, when an exploit is found in Windows (to the best of my knowledge those two exploits have yet to be patched), it takes forever to get a fix to the public.

      On the other hand, as soon as I heard of the vulnerability in the Linux Kernel, I have the following options:

      1. Patch it myself and submit the patch for everyone elses benefit
      2. Disable the use of the system call that can be used to create the vulnerability until a patch is found.
      3. Help test patches created by someone else -- possibly with much stronger C skills then mine (Hey, Linus can outprogram anyone as far as I'm concerned. There's no dishonor in being outgunned by the best)

      Now, whereas I am pretty certain Slackware will have a package available for me to update my kernel in another 48 - 72 hours, and if it's absolutely urgent for me to fix it I can either disable it or fix it myself (something Windoze won't let you do -- although the nature of the vulnerability in the kernel may make disabling it impractical. But still, at least you have the option), Microsoft has not, to the best of my knowledge, fixed these vulnerabilities, even though it's been months.

      This is why Open Source Software is so great. Technically sophisticated users hold the destiny of the software in their own hands. And I haven't even begun to get started on how great it is not to submit annoying feature requests, but to make software do what you want it to do.

    4. Re:Important to Remember by catenos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who said that I was talking about this vulnerability . All I said was that it is impossible to do any proper testing of a patch if it is realeased minutes/hours/days after it is discovered.

      Two things:

      1. Why aren't "days" enough to do proper testing? I agree that minutes aren't enough. And neither are hours usually, but there cases where I would argue that, depending on the kind of change, the testsuites and the QA requirements.

      2. In OSS, most times a patch isn't released in the conventional meaning of the word ("released", I mean). The patch is made available (often when it is checked into CVS). What will be released is a new tar ball or announcement, after the QA process. Me, I consider it released, when my favored distribution has an updated package for it on its security site. And contrary to some Microsoft fixes, I never had a Mandrake or Debian security update break my installation - so the QA process seems to work.

      It's simple to mix up those, because in closed source you don't see the step where a patch/fix is internally distributed from devs to QA. In OSS you do, but that doesn't imply an official release.

      But on the other side, the difference in availibility matters. Having access to the patch before a security update is officially released, gives me a choice. If it's criticial enough for my infrastructure, I can dig into it and do my own QA and deploy it even before an official announcement is available.

      Heck, if it's important enough, I can start even before a patch is available, because I have the source. And if you follow security lists, you will notice that it is no exception that a so created patch will find its way into the official release (in other words: the time to release is cut short, because a suggested fix is already available the moment the core team starts looking at the problem).

      --
      Keep an eye on which arguments are silently dropped in replies. Not always, but often times it's very telling.
  23. Story is a troll!!!!! by bangular · · Score: 4, Informative

    This story is old.

    Version: 2.2 up to and including 2.2.25, 2.4 up to to and including 2.4.24, 2.6 up to to and including 2.6.2

    2.6.3 and 2.4.25 have been out a while. This is _not_ a new vuln. All this will accomplish is a bunch of idiots saying "see, linux is insecure".

    1. Re:Story is a troll!!!!! by imsabbel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dont you think a security hole that is VERY OLD and still there is a lot worse than one that just slipped in with the last revision?

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    2. Re:Story is a troll!!!!! by LuSiDe · · Score: 2, Informative

      And >= 2.2.26 fixed this also.

      --
      WE DON'T NEED NO BLOG CONTROL.
    3. Re:Story is a troll!!!!! by Ironica · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dont you think a security hole that is VERY OLD and still there is a lot worse than one that just slipped in with the last revision?

      But, what he's saying is, it's NOT still there. It's been fixed already.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
  24. More critical vulnerability in FreeBSD by chrysalis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Another kernel vulnerability was recently found in all FreeBSD (4.X and 5.x) versions.

    The TCP/IP stack can be stopped by sending unordered TCP fragments.

    This is a serious remote vulnerability, and any FreeBSD with an open TCP port should be patched ASAP.

    Here's a link to the official advisory :

    ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/CERT/advisorie s/ FreeBSD-SA-04:04.tcp.asc

    Regardless of the operating system you are running, always keep everything up to date.

    --
    {{.sig}}
    1. Re:More critical vulnerability in FreeBSD by cperciva · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, more critical... in the sense that an easily detected (just look at the packets), non-spoofable (you can't do this without having finished a TCP handshake first), denial of service attack is more serious than a root exploit.

  25. i beg your pardon? by hot_Karls_bad_cavern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...And how do you avid windows-baiters react to it? How come you hypocrites just blow Windows bugs out of proportion while attempting to cover up Linux kernel holes?..."

    Um, the source code for the *fix* is listed *in* the article (you didn't read it did you?)

    i don't call posting fixed code and owning up to an exploitable coding error "covering up".

  26. Re:"Windows users: want Security, install linux"?? by Padrino121 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Neither have I, but that wasn't the point of my post.

    The goal a lot of people have is to make Linux mainstream, that means that less and less knowledgeable users will be using it. If Linux continues to suffer from kernel exploits from time to time just like Windows then those same users will be running executable mail viruses built for Linux just like they do for Windows now.

    A lot of people I've seen using Linux have a false sense of security and therefore aren't as careful as they are on Windows (which is a scary thing because we all know how insecure Windows is).

  27. Re:Here we go again by bafu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do I laugh or do I cry? ...

    Laugh, I would say. While both laughing and crying are versatile enough to be used regardless of whether it is a time of great happiness or great sadness, laughing is definitely more "out there".

    just when I had finished compiling 2.4.25 on my systems..

    Anyone who "just finished compiling" the latest release of their favorite kernel tree is all set (assuming the installed it), since this "new kernel vulnerability" is only new in the /. sense. I would think that people who are super-concerned about such things would recognize that in reading the bulletin.

    Did I read the security bullentin correctly

    No, you did not. :-( When it said...

    2.2 up to and including 2.2.25, 2.4 up to to and including 2.4.24, 2.6 up to to and including 2.6.2

    ...you mistook the 2.2 for a 2.4 and thought that it effected your 2.4.25 kernel.

  28. This is medium old news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is the second mremap() vulnerability finaly making it to slashdot. Note the date on the linked page, March 1.

    You just thought it was the third because you already heard about two, and forgot that sometimes things take a week or so to make it to /.

    1. Re:This is medium old news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      And please note, that March 1 is the date of an update of the announcement. The bug was fixed in 2.4.25 and the original announcements are from mid february.
      Everybody considering this bug "news" should check his way to track security announcements!

  29. Not the way to make friends. by stock · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This guy investigating mremap is saving a new vulnerability for every week. He's working only to get his name printed everywhere. I cannot take this seriously. If he's a genuine security analyst, he'd fix _all_ mremap related bugs within 1 patch.

    My biggest grief, is him not releasing source code patches for genuine kernel.org kernels. If he's so good to release sploits, he's good enough to submit source code patches.

    Robert

  30. Date format by mandrews · · Score: 5, Insightful
    disclosed on 05-01-2003

    OK time for me to tilt at a few windmills. Aside from the date being off by a year (the link quotes the date as 05-01-2004), is this supposed to be 1st of May or the 5th of January?

    In an international forum and for clarity, ISO 8601 dates. Therefore: 2004-01-05.

    Sorry for the rant, but I work for an international company, and have spent sizable parts of meetings trying to figure out which version of a document is "most recent", 2/3/04 or 3/2/04.

    1. Re:Date format by Nicolas+Pillot · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have a dream : everyone starts working on the 13th of every month. There would be no date conflict, and furthermore, you would have much more holidays :-)

  31. if you patched two weeks ago, you can ignore this by redmoss · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is partially redundant to a few of the other posts here saying that this vulnerability was already disclosed several weeks ago. However, I thought I'd add that if you already patched, check the vulnerability ID; in this case it's CAN-2004-0077. Your patch should have specifically mentioned this ID. If not, you need to patch again.

    Thank $DEITY I don't need to patch/reboot again. I was starting to get a bit annoyed at having to patch the kernel twice in two months. Scheduling reboots of machines in use by many people is no fun.

  32. Re:Install windows! more like by frause · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get a windows CD
    Boot
    Reboot
    Install
    Reboot
    Install some more
    Reboot
    Continue installation
    Reboot
    Register windows installation
    Change a setting
    Reboot

    bah

  33. Patched in 2.6.3 apparently by petabyte · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm fairly sure this was patched in 2.6.3. Running the test code included in the advisory on my 2.6.3 (vanilla) system shows:

    [+] kernel 2.6.3 vulnerable: NO exploitable NO

    There's also a patch to mremap listed in the 2.6.3 ChangeLog. So I don't know how "new" this bug is.

    1. Re:Patched in 2.6.3 apparently by BusDriver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, it is saving you.
      That doesn't mean someone won't release an exploit that doesn't trigger pax though. It's just the way this particular example of the exploit is coded that PAX (part of Grsec) is catching. Doesn't mean someone can't code up a version of the exploit that won't trip PAX and hack you to bits!

      Upgrade to the latest grsec, there are patches for the latest 2.4.25 kernel.

  34. Re:"Windows users: want Security, install linux"?? by fwarren · · Score: 3, Informative
    The goal a lot of people have is to make Linux mainstream, that means that less and less knowledgeable users will be using it. If Linux continues to suffer from kernel exploits from time to time just like Windows then those same users will be running executable mail viruses built for Linux just like they do for Windows now.
    On a Windows box, there would have been no peer review. So instead of being discovered after 5 years, the only way we would know about it is if some hacker had reversed engineered it and exploited the problem. Then Microsoft would set on a patch for 6 months...if they decided to fix it at all.

    In Linux, peer review found it, fixed it and made the information available, so you know that you have an exploit.

    Linux seems much more Mainstream to me. Until people write perfect, bug free, secure software, give me a system that at least I can keep up to date and have a chance to protect myself.

    --
    vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
  35. MS vs Linux debugging. by innerweb · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If this had been a bug in MS, we may might not have heard about it for months or years unless someone on the outside published it. The crackers would have still had a good chance to have known about it.

    What winds up happening is I pay MS to produce a product that I have very little input on. I buy the off the shelf solution to then develop 50% of the solution anyway. And, then it crashes, the documents are incorrect (updates might be available on their web sites), and I have no way of figuring out what the issues are without paying more $s for something I paid for already. If I tried to pull the same trick, I would loose my client.

    Linux side is someone spots the issue, makes us aware of it in most cases. People have something more important than a paycheck at stake get to work on a fix for the problem. A, or multiple, potential fix(es) is(are) put up. Sometimes a fix goes straight in with minimal review (it works, most liked it), sometimes the fix gets kicked around to hash out any potential problems (in the full light of day, normally my apps do not break when the fix is rolled out.)

    I like the public knowledge aspect of OSS. Yep, hackers have access to it also, but closed source never seemed to stop them, it just stop me from protecting myself.

    Maybe we need to look at the next step for OSS? Maybe there is a better model for building OSS? Maybe companies might start providing more donations (like cheap lic fees) to a foundation that rewards freelance OSS programmers with cash for tackling certain problems (and does not pay until the code is peer reviewed and bug checked to a reasonable extent.) Maybe that would work better... Are certain organizations not starting to do that?

    Given how much OSS has accomplished in the past decade with its relative lack of fees and "structure", imagine what might happen if more companies started using their proprietary source software budget to put bounties out on features they needed in OSS. True, not all features would they want to make public, but enough they would wat to so as to dramatically cut everyone's costs (GNU lic is important because of this). Most companies actually have very close to the same needs. But, their money goes to legal and marketing fees more than it seems to go to actual development fees with off the sheld software. What an economic waste! Check out John Nash for a rather different rather OSS view of the world.

    In the end, you are left with a decision. The programmers at MS are very bright. The programmers in OSS are very bright. The real difference is the perceived safety of being able to blame MS (who you can not hold responsible yet - name one successful law suit against MS for the failure of their software to function as advertised) versus the cost effectiveness of not paying for huge legal and marketing fees (as well as other corporate overhead having very little to do with getting better or more code). I am not against programmers getting paid. I am against sloth and leeches in a corporate setting destroying the market in which programmers get paid.

    InnerWeb

    --
    Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
    1. Re:MS vs Linux debugging. by rruvin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If this had been a bug in MS, we may might not have heard about it for months or years unless someone on the outside published it. And you didn't this time, either. This has been around since 2.2. How many years is that?

    2. Re:MS vs Linux debugging. by Tack · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But with the supposed 1000s of developers constantly looking at the Linux kernel why was the bug left in so long? How many months has this bug been in the kernel, easily open to the evil crackers to see? (Ive no clue, im asking as regardless if the bug is now fixed quickly or not, its been available for the oft praised peer review for X amount of time).

      Nobody claims that peer review results in code which is free of bugs or security problems. The claim is the peer review model results in less bugs and security problems than the closed source model, given equivalent man power.

      Cryptographers tend to be the most paranoid, security-conscious types, and any (respected) cryptographer is going to tell you that peer review is an absolute necessity. Peer review doesn't guarantee unbreakable algorithms, but if a dozen pairs of brilliant, and objective eyeballs review an algorithm and don't find any attacks, it's a hell of a lot more likely to be secure than some closed, proprietary algorithm.

      It sucks that I have to update the kernel of all my Linux servers. But this is reality when you use complex software. I still feel much safer using OSS with a peer review model, because this way I don't have to trust that a company with an agenda (i.e. profit) has my best interests in mind.

      Jason.

  36. Fixed on SUSE kernels??? by multipart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I can't exploit this on my SUSE kernel. All I get (after many attempts) is:

    [+] kernel 2.4.21-192-athlon vulnerable: YES exploitable YES
    MMAP #65530 0x50bfa000 - 0x50bfb000 [-] Failed

    Perhaps this hasn't gone completely unnoticed...

  37. eyes wide stupid? by EvilAlien · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The only thing separating local exploits from remote in impact is the cracker finding a way to get unpriviledged access to the host. Lots of remote but "trivial" exploits are discovered, and sysadmins like to write those off as unimportant if they don't involve priv escalation... and with the next breath, write off all local-only priv escalation vulns.

    You may trust your authorized users, but do you trust their passwords, habits in storing passwords ("You don't expect me to remember that, do you? Where are my post-it notes..."), and wisdom to not extend trust to ANYONE?

    Do you also trust users to not run a piece of malicious code that shows up purporting to be some groovy new Linux app that will do some groovy new thing? Afterall, it would only have to require a vanilla user account... and Linux never gets viruses, so why worry? ;)

    I think you see where I'm going with this. Local exploits need to be patched too, and sysadmins all too frequently think they don't because they are "only local".

    --
    perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
    1. Re:eyes wide stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. In the real world, remote rooting in one step might earn style points, but as a general rule, it just doesn't happen that often. It can be hard work keeping everything patched up to the nines, but if your company has ever called in a (good) pen testing team, you will have experienced first hand how a chain of seemingly 'trivial' vulnerabilities (including for e.g. escalating to the 'games' group) can result in the compromise of most of your most important assets.

      Sysadmins who trivialize these 'moot' issues should realize that at some point, if not today, maybe next year, they are going to have to defend their judgement to an angry CEO who has just lost big money. I don't believe 'total security', even at the software can be attained. All we can do is to keep on patching, and to disclose these vulnerabilities in a responsible and efficient manner.

    2. Re:eyes wide stupid? by Endive4Ever · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A perfect snapshot example of the kind of admin arrogance that Personal Computer users revile.

      The days of 'fill out form 11-B and wait two weeks and maybe we'll install that app for you' are gone.

      That model of administration is dead, except in the largest most reptilian corporations.

      --
      ---
    3. Re:eyes wide stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      simply disable all local user accounts.

      I really dont understand what all the fuss is about.

  38. Does not compute. by Raven42rac · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Let me get this straight, it has nothing to do with the bug from a year ago, except that it affects the same code in the same system call? Call me unenlightened, but, that sounds pretty similar to me.

    --
    I hate sigs.
  39. Can't agree more by Craig+Ringer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ISO dates are the way to go - for the sanity of everybody concerned. They sort lexically in a sensible way, they're in a reasonable order, and they're unambiguous (YYYY- not YY-).

    This, of course, is why nobody uses them.

    *sigh*

    As the evil dictator-like sysadmin, at work all my in-house intranet tools report ISO dates. I had a few people confused at first, but now it's the accepted format at work for things like archive directories (hundreds of directories named NN-NN-NN, NN.NN.NN or NNNNNN can get rather confusing - YYYY-MM-DD is so much easier).

    Now, if only the /rest/ of the world would change over.

    While we're at it, can we have the ISO paper sizes adopted by the few holdouts, too? (I only wish...)

    1. Re:Can't agree more by Traa · · Score: 2, Funny

      I predict the "Decamillenium bug"! Think of all those boxes that are still running 8000 years from now switching from 9999-12-31 to 10000-01-01, there goes the lexically sorted database.

      (j/k)

  40. Re:Which kernels are effected by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 3, Funny

    RTFA!

    Version: 2.2 up to and including 2.2.25, 2.4 up to to and including 2.4.24, 2.6 up to to and including 2.6.2.


    No, these kernels are affected. My guess is that kernels 2.2.26, 2.4.25. and 2.6.3 will be effected. The effect of a vulnerability is usually a bugfix release, as an unpatched kernel negatively affects security.

  41. Re:"Windows users: want Security, install linux"?? by LO0G · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Umm.

    "On a Windows box, there would have been no peer review."

    I doubt that even Microsoft lets security fixes be released without having other Microsoft programmers review all the relevant code. A more accurate comment might be:

    "On a Windows box, there would have been no public peer review."

  42. grsecurity by mslinux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wouldn't grsecurity provide protection for this?

  43. this vulnerability announcement is a month old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    this hole was found and patched by vendors a month ago. i personally submitted to slashdot at least 10 stories detailing this hole and how to patch it, and i was quite obviously ignored.

    http://www.slackware.com/changelog/stable.php?cp u= i386
    "
    Wed Feb 18 03:44:42 PST 2004
    patches/kernels/: Recompiled to fix another bounds-checking error in
    the kernel mremap() code. (this is not the same issue that was fixed
    on Jan 6) This bug could be used by a local attacker to gain root
    privileges. Sites should upgrade to a new kernel. After installing
    the new kernel, be sure to run 'lilo'.
    For more details, see:
    http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN- 2004-0077
    Thanks to Paul Starzetz for finding and researching this issue.
    (* Security fix *)
    "

    2.4.25 and 2.6.3 are NOT affected by this hole, and there is a patch for 2.4.24 which you can make yourself by diffing a vanilla 2.4.24 kernel with slackware 9.1's 2.4.24 kernel source package.

    CmdrTaco, before you post another "announcement" like this, do your homework. last thing we need is more security disinformation surrounding linux.

  44. Are we sure? by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I ran the test code in the advisory on a stock 2.4.25 build and it printed out NO and NO for both questions [vulnerable and exploitable].

    Is this really a bug? [tinfoilhatmode] Is the advisory code correct? Or is this just so old that both 2.4 and 2.6 lines have it fixed already?

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:Are we sure? by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still doesn't answer the question "is this NEW?" I mean why is this being posted on slashdot? Obviously the kernel teams know about the flaw and have already fixed it.

      Oh oh, I found a bug in Win 3.11... oh wait... that's an old release? Dang... Nobody will want to hear about that...

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  45. Re:Which kernels are effected by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wonderful. scsi is broken on 2.6.3-gentoo-r1. My burner and USB disks don't work, and that's worse than a local root.

    - ide-scsi is deprecated for CD burners
    - USB now relies on hotplug/libusb/whatnot

    Jesus man, why don't you read the fucking 2.6 migration FAQ before posting bollocks?

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  46. which are vulnerable by CAIMLAS · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ok, so I read the write up.

    Here's the immediately pertinent part:

    Proper exploitation of this vulnerability leads to local privilege escalation giving an attacker full super-user privileges. The vulnerability may also lead to a denial-of-service attack on the available system memory.

    Tested and known to be vulnerable kernel versions are all

    So it looks like we've all got to update to the latest of respective trees. I guess the days of running a kernel for months on end are pretty much over.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  47. -AC kernels not affected. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just what the subject says.

  48. Typical user experience. by eean · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A typical user experience.
    1) Buy computer with Windows XP Home Edition pre-installed.
    2) They get a virus, perhaps even a trojan. Or maybe a worm, since the computer wasn't up-to-date. Or they were stupid and opened MyDoom. Regardless, it cripples the computer.
    3) They buy or download an antivirus software. Perhaps their computer works well enough to install it, and reinstall Windows if it does not.
    4)Ok, finally a working computer again. But since they browse the internet as administrator (as it works by default) they get spyware. Lot's of spyware. It builds up on each other and Internet Explorer has trouble starting. Pop-ups occur on every website, even Google or when IE isn't open. Perhaps their credit card info is stolen.
    5) If their lucky, they would have heard of Ad-Aware or Spybot Search and Destroy and they somehow get it on their computer to install it (no IE remember?). It deals with most of the pop-ups. But nothing really works right. Reinstall Windows.
    6) Go to step 2.

    I work at the campus helpdesk, so I see students with these sorts of problems all the time. I have a problem respecting an OS that will get a worm before the user has a chance to do Windows Update, an occurance I've seen a few times.

    1. Re:Typical user experience. by Endive4Ever · · Score: 2, Funny

      That isn't his job. His job is to sit on his hands and watch them struggle, then come here and slag Microsoft for fun.

      --
      ---
  49. Re:Damn (all your base are belong to us) by SiChemist · · Score: 3, Interesting


    There is a patched kernel at least for RedHat:

    https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2004-065.html

    Note in the third paragraph:

    "Paul Starzetz discovered a flaw in return value checking in mremap() in the Linux kernel versions 2.4.24 and previous that may allow a local attacker to gain root privileges. No exploit is currently available; however this issue is exploitable. The Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures project (cve.mitre.org) has assigned the name CAN-2004-0077 to this issue."

    This is the same CVE as the article. The patch was issued 2004-02-18.

    This issue was patched in Fedora on 19 Feb with 2.4.22-1.2174. See the Fedora announce list here:

    http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-lis t/2004-February/thread.html

  50. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  51. Supposed vulnerability by sloanster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just to add my .02, I've tested this exploit code on a representative sample my boxes here, some running stock fedora kernels, some running 2.6 kernels, and NONE of the systems is exploitable, though the reports vary depending on kernel.

    So, before the fud machine starts churning out all these opinions on how insecure linux is, let's check our facts OK?

    neo: /home/jjs
    (tty/dev/pts/1): bash: 1016 > ./a.out

    [+] kernel 2.6.3-ck1 vulnerable: NO exploitable NO

    gibson: /home/jjs
    (tty/dev/pts/1): bash: 126 > ./a.out

    [+] kernel 2.4.22-1.2174.nptlsmp vulnerable: YES exploitable YES

    MMAP #65525 0x50bf5000 - 0x50bf6000
    [-] Failed

    1. Re:Supposed vulnerability by lintux · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How did you compile the exploit? It didn't work on my machine either, initially, but when I compiled it correctly (-fomit-frame-pointer seems to be important), it did work.

  52. Re:if you patched two weeks ago, you can ignore th by stock · · Score: 2, Informative
    "Its a source-level patch. See `man patch`. I understand the sarcasm inherent in your statement and yet I don't see peoples' problem with doing a quick recompile and reboot. Its really that simple. "

    Oh yes i know how to use /usr/bin/patch . But where is the patch itself? like linux-2.4.24-mremap.patch ? for instance

    cat linux-2.4.24-mremap.patch | patch -p0

    would do the job. However _where_ is the linux-2.4.24-mremap.patch to be found?

    Robert

  53. Security through obscurity? by mangu · · Score: 3, Insightful
    this local exploit has been sitting there for ~5 years before The Good Guys spotted it.


    Well, I think this proves that the "security through obscurity" model is, at best, ineffective. If it has been so long there for anyone to see and the "good" guys didn't see it, what makes you believe that the "bad" guys would spot it?


    I don't have hard data to prove this, but I believe that the following two points are true: (1) there are more good guys than bad guys, or otherwise society as we know it wouldn't exist; and (2) good guys are smarter than bad guys, because our current social organization tends to favor being honest. Good guys get good salaries, bad guys are sent to jail.


    So, if it took many smart good guys five years to find this vulnerability, how many years it would take a few stupid bad guys to find it?

  54. Proof-of-Concept Code by 0xB00F · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I tried the "Proof-of-Concept" code. Nice thing about it is that it tells you two things. 1) If your kernel is vulnerable 2) If your vulnerability is exploitable.

    I have one kernel that is vulnerable but not exploitable according to the Proof-of-Concept code. Saves me some time to not patch, recompile and reboot a new kernel.

    I wish future vulnerability announcements will be like this one. e.g. contain Proof-of-Concept exploit code that can tell me whether or not the kernel/software I am running is vulnerable and/or exploitable.

    1. Re:Proof-of-Concept Code by Monster+Zero · · Score: 2, Informative
      If you try to compile with GCC 2.96, you get the following error:

      Error: unbalanced parenthesis in operand 1.

      The solution (for me) was to compile it with GCC 3.3.2.

      The output on my system (unfortunately for me) is:

      $ ./mremap_pte /bin/ping /bin/bash

      [+] kernel 2.4.20-28.7bigmem vulnerable: YES exploitable YES

      MMAP #65530 0x50bfa000 - 0x50bfb000 [+] Success

      Usage: ping [-LRUbdfnqrvVaA] [-c count] [-i interval] [-w deadline]

      [-p pattern] [-s packetsize] [-t ttl] [-I interface or address]
      [-M mtu discovery hint] [-S sndbuf]
      [ -T timestamp option ] [ -Q tos ] [hop1 ...] destination
  55. Re:Double standard? by sloanster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This patch requires a reboot, right?

    Are you being deliberately naive - to load a fixed kernel, it is required to load the fixed kernel, you do understand that, correct? However, for anything other than loading a new kernel, linux does not need to be rebooted, and that includes system lib updates, distribution upgrades etc.

  56. Public knowledge for over two weeks by bigberk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The advisory was released Feb. 18, so this has all been public knowledge for over two weeks. This USENET post shows the vulnerability and upcoming exploit was known about, and slashdot is just plain late on this one.

    You have had two weeks to patch your systems. I know slackware's advisory was sent right after the vulnerability became public knowledge.

  57. judicial use of 'noexec' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    this is why anywhere unpriviledged users can write (/home, /var, /tmp, etc.) should be on a partition mounted 'noexec'. If a cracker can get local access, but not execute their own code, they are limited as to what they can do. This is also another good use of chroot, although the BSD 'jail' is a more robust solution.

    1. Re:judicial use of 'noexec' by mvdwege · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. Sorry, won't work. As long as users have execute access to ld-linux.so.2 (which lives in /lib) or the equivalent on non-Linux boxes, they can run any ELF executable, noexec or not.

      And AFAIK, ld-linux.so.2 has to be executable by all in order for the system to function normally, but I am not quite sure there.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    2. Re:judicial use of 'noexec' by mvdwege · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Scratch what I just said. It seems that this hole is closed. I get 'Operation not permitted' when I try to run an executable. It appears that noexec really means noexec.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  58. Way Too Idealistic by EventHorizon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's a very naive, idealistic argument. American business often maximizes shareholder value by being as dishonest as possible, short of clearly breaking commonly enforced laws. Under your argument, Darl McBride is a "good guy" because he's a) rich from the SCOX pump-n-dump and b) not in jail (yet).

    Anyway, go read "The Art Of War" or watch "The Godfather". It is a serious error to assume your enemy is weak, and I would recommend against that philosophy when securing critical assets.

  59. Enough already ... Obscurity has its place by duck_prime · · Score: 4, Insightful
    this local exploit has been sitting there for ~5 years before The Good Guys spotted it.

    Well, I think this proves that the "security through obscurity" model is, at best, ineffective. If it has been so long there for anyone to see and the "good" guys didn't see it, what makes you believe that the "bad" guys would spot it?
    Well jeez, this actually sounds like an argument *for* security through obscurity. If it took so long to find the bug even with open source access, imagine how long it would have taken to find the exploit in a closed-source product.

    Don't forget ... security through obscurity (S.T.O) is not in itself a bad thing. If you don't know what you're looking for, you're unlikely to find it. The real problem with S.T.O. is that if you are relying solely on it, it is a 'brittle' defence: once an attacker is aware of the 'hidden secret' it's game over.

    So ... do you use a password on your accounts? After all, that's security through obscurity, right?
    1. Re:Enough already ... Obscurity has its place by darkvizier · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "So ... do you use a password on your accounts? After all, that's security through obscurity, right?"

      Whether or not you use a password has little to do with obscurity. The question is whether or not the algorithm used to make the key is publicly known.

      I do agree with you that "STO" is not necessarilly bad. If a company is obtaining security through obscurity, then not only do you not have the key to the lock, you don't even know how the lock works.

      The premise behind open source, as I understand it, is using algoriths that are very difficult to crack even when you know exactly how they work. With closed source, the danger is that the designers might choose to asume that their algorithm will remain secret, and base their security on that fact. If closed source developers assumed that their software would eventually be operating in a worst case scenario (open source), and used algorithms that maintained security even after the source was compromised, closed source would actually be considerably more secure. Deadlines, profit motives, and decreasing execution time give incentive to trim the edges though, so security is skimped in favor of other considerations, because they figure they can rely on obscurity to make up for good code.

      That is where the problem lies. Not in the fact that they don't show us the code, but that the code wasn't good to begin with. Truth is, the perfect coder WOULD be better off developing closed source. I wouldn't waste your time searching for a perfect coder though... God's the only one that might fit the ticket, and my guess is he's not employed by Microsoft.

  60. Oh, yes, send me a binary... by hummassa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Please. So, to run it I have to chmod +x it; ooh, but /home is mounted noexec, so I log as root, cp it to ... hmm ... /usr/local/bin ... nope, no /usr/local ... ok, /usr/bin it is ..., oops, it's mounted read-only, I'll have to mount -o rw,remount /usr then I'll chmod +x it, aaah ... now I go back to my regular account and execute it.
    How this compares to send me a fscking html-with-vbscript that will be executed while in the preview pane of Outlook Express and downloads another executable that has the power to install itself as a device driver and run in kernel mode?????
    Even if I have to click on the attachment, it will execute right away!!!!

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  61. change of language ? by rkoot · · Score: 2, Funny
    Wouldn't it be a good idea to rewrite the kernel in a different language, say, Ada95?
    I believe that these exploits couldn't be in the kernel *if* it was written in Ada95.

    r.