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EB Demands Payment From Victim of Theft
blincoln writes "ABC Action News is reporting that a Florida Electronics Boutique bought stolen games and gaming hardware, and made a profit on selling them back to their rightful owner, refusing to return the merchandise unless she paid them. From the article: 'EB Games still insists it will not refund Michelle's money. If she wants her money back, the company said, she can go through the legal system and get restitution from the thief.' In addition, EB appears to be violating the law by re-selling used merchandise without holding it for the required number of days. I was under the impression that purchasers of stolen merchandise could expect it to be seized by the police (who would return it to the owner) and not recover any of the money they spent buying it unless they took action against the thief. Is that not the case in Florida?"
Wouldn't this make EB themselves liable to prosecution for knowingly dealing in stolen goods? They don't seem to be denying that the goods are stolen from the bit about seeking restitution from the thief, which is pretty much an admission of guilt if that is the case. Anyone know for sure?
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
But in this case, the police should already have enough proof. There's a confession from the thief, and a matching transaction that fits the description on EB's records too.
I am pretty sure, that all pawn shops can only buy items, from someone with an id, and they then, must log that. Isn't ebgames essentially a pawn shop in that respect, since they buy items from the general public?
I work a local Apple retailer, we deal with new and used equipment.
We've had a few break-ins in the past, the owner of our store tried contacting pawn shops in town to ask them to keep an eye out for iBooks/PowerBooks that might show up soon cause of the break-in. What is truely pathetic is that the pawn brokers just hung up as soon as they heard anything about stolen goods. They didn't want to be involved in the slightest. That really made me mad that people out there are allowed to run such a shady business. But that's America for ya, thanks Martha Stewart...
As I mentioned earlier, we deal in used equipment as well. We're able to track S/N through Apple's service site, so we often catch a lot of stolen equipment. If the names don't match up for example, obvious red flag. Other times it just seems like some scam is taking place, especially when the kids that steal these things don't know how to turn em on, what the product name is, don't know the password or username, etc. So we play along with them, claim we just need to take it in back for a few minutes to 'test it out', run the serial number, call the cops and see if it's been reported, if so we have the police come pick them up and return the product to the customer (another reason not to buy mail-order, sometimes the local guys are looking out for you more ways than one).
But even phoning the police on these matters is rediculous, in our city, you have to talk to about 10 different people, none one at the station seems to care. Which is frustrating, they have an attitude that it's not worth getting off their butts to check for a serial number. And yet, every one we've phoned in was reported and was finally returned.
I wish local police would have a website to allow you to look up serial numbers of reported stolen goods, it'd make reselling and buying for the customer a lot safer and ethical. Although I'm sure it's more a legal problem to pull that task off, but still... I can dream of a perfect world still?
I hope they sue EB for this, it's truely bad business.
True enough, but at that point, it isnt the police's job to strong arm EB into providing restitution. That burden lies in the arms of the courts.
Looks like you have not read the article in full, its 15 days actually :-)
From the article -
Under state law, all merchants who deal in secondhand goods are required to hold those goods for 15 calendar days before selling them. The law is designed specifically to prevent the sale of stolen goods, and prevent situations like this.
Well, you cannot blame her for not reporting it to the authorities - usually you end up going to the authorities only as a last resort. You try and solve problems as best as you can before that with the company and if that does not work out, you see restitution.
But now that its out in the open, it may turn quite interesting.
Pawn shop owners don't want to hear about possible stolen goods because that can only get them in trouble, they'd rather deal with a stolen good without knowing that it is stolen than do the right thing of turning it in.
There's no punishment for them if they don't realize that its stolen property... so they really want to follow a don't ask, don't tell policy.
We don't have any EB stores where I live, but we have KB's and Game Stop, both of which sell used games, and I have to tell you their prices are horrible. Both places price games 5$ under retail. I can't imagine not paying the extra 5$ to get a new copy.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
This past holiday season, I was out of work, so I picked up a few hours at the local Gamestop (same company as EBgames), and after dealing with their store policies, I'm honestly suprised this doesn't happen more often.
The entire company is poorly run. They're still using an ancient, convoluted, DOS-based PoS system that appears to pre-date the existance of the company. District and regional managers play slash and burn with a store's allotment of employee hours, and then throw a fit and fire the store managers when secret shoppers complain that the one employee running the store by herself for 8 hours didn't manage to get through the daily 20-some box delivery from UPS. Orders for specific products are placed at a corporate level, not a store level, meaning that it's extremely common for stores to get in a glut of products they already have an excess of, or products they have no floor space for that won't sell anyways (like all their crappy collectibles, figurines, and trading cards). The store I worked at literally had Playstations and Xboxes and Gamecubes stacked up 6 to 8 feet in the employee bathroom for lack of anywhere else to put merchandise.
There's little to no emphasis placed on knowledge of games or gaming, and communication regarding the availability of new products to the store's emplyees is non-existant. Customer's are viewed as if they're some sort of problem, and treated with agreat deal of disrespect. They're routinely lied to and mislead, either out of contempt or ignorance. I've seen employees tell mom's shopping for their kids that Gameboy Advance games work in the old (circa 1990) model Gameboy, and employees routinely tag a Game Informer subscription on to a customer's order after the customer said he didn't want the subscription. I've personally been chewed out by a manager for talking a guy out of buying Halo (for the Xbox) for his kid's PS2. And of course, all this behavior is reinforced because the managers do it, too.
Gamestop/EB is a terrible chain. Seeing how they're run, I'm amazed they manage to stay in business. And seeing that they've ripped off a customer... well, that's a daily occurance.
For Battlefield: Vietnam - Their price was ~4 cents lower vs amazon. In the reason for canceling section I wrote that I didn't want to deal with a company that traffics in stolen goods and charges the victim to get their gear back.
0 00 1AO01Y/draziw
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B
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+1 for low user ID and love for SCO
EB has been ripping off people for quite some time. For example, recently a friend of my bought castlevania for the ps2 from one of the local eb games here, and despite the salesman pitch to sell it to him used he refused and bought it new, or so he thought. Turns out they pawned off a used copy of the game in a new box. How do they do that? It seems they lift the bottom portion of the case and stick the disc in while not having to remove that silver tag on the top portion that is suppose to indicate the game is new. When he opened the game there were scratches and fingerprints on the disc itself. I don't know if this is illegal but these kinds of underhand tactics won't gain them any sympathy from me, I hope someone takes them to court.
I wonder what would have happened if she had just simply "taken" them back.
It would be hard to charge her with stealing stuff that she already owned.
I'm sure someone here must know some law on this.
Not true, the police are supposed to seize stolen goods as evidence, and then the goods get returned to the original owner, and its up to EB to attempt to get their money back from the thief if its possible.
More to the point.. what the fuck were they (EB) thinking.. is the bad publicity over this whole incident worth the negligable amount of money to this woman.... I think not, this will cost them alot more in the long run, and I hope the authorities come down hard on EB for violating the laws and this persons rights
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Sometimes calling the police isn't feasible
/dev/null).
Lately, it seems like nothing's feasible. I had a truck broken into last year and $2K of tools and test equipment taken out of it. Response from the police? Leave a message on the answering machine and never, ever expect any followup. "It's an insurance matter."
Some of the equipment was licensed amateur radio gear that was very distinguishable. Checked with pawn shops. They told me to get lost: "We don't have to talk to you or tell you if we have your equipment or not. Only the police can check."
Obviously not if the police don't investigate it and relegate the matter to an answering machine (a friend at the police department said they only use those cases for statistical purposes - e.g. demonstrating they need more funding because of greater crime, though who knows what they'd do with more funds. Obviously not chase ordinary criminals that affect most of us).
Insurance company was no help either? Played "let's demand proof for everything" - and when proof was provided, claimed to lose forms, require reapplication, and then "mistakenly" closed my case twice. Never got paid a cent, though they indicated I had a claim. Recourse? File complaint with state insurance regulators. (Hint: their address is
Now we're dealing with a significant theft and destruction to a federally licensed communication site at work (in a matter that is going on across the country), and the local FBI office won't response. They're pretty busy hanging on Internet chat rooms nabbing perverts - maybe playing on the PC is more fun than doing field work. Local law enforcement says it's a national matter and has no resources to investigate.
Conclusion? Seems like a good time to be a crook or an insurance company. Us poor schmucks are outgunned and unrepresented. How's that "no taxation without representation" line go again?
Do what I just did, write an e-mail to EB Games and inform them that you find their business practices unsavory and won't give them any future business. I think in this case the consumer may be able to make more of an impact on this situation than the local law enforcement.
EB is wrong in this case twice and will suffer a customer backlash, if it gets the publicity it deserves. The only thing that gets a corporations attention anymore is a big hit in the wallet.
This unfortunately has the potential to help EB's PR, though - It provides free advertising about a fact they cannot legally announce - That they will accept and resell stolen property, and do their damnedest to block any attempts to prove the theft or to restore the stolen property to its rightful owner.
Now, most legit purchasers may find this a tad unsavory, but will just assume it doesn't apply if they only buy new merchandise. Quite a few people, however, will consider this a godsend to getting shady "used" merchandise.
Of course, personally, I don't understand why people even still shop at places like EB. If you know exactly what you want, search for it online. You can usually get it for around half-price compared to local stores, and that before you consider not having to pay sales tax. My most recent example - I bought a few seasons of a popular TV series (won't say what, because I got it as a gift for someone, who reads Slashdot) on DVD. Local retail chains had them for a total of just over $200. Amazon had them for $170. Looking around online, and using two different stores (one had a horrible price on the first season, apparently they used that one as the money maker for the discount on the rest), I managed to get them all for under $120 including shipping.
Here in Kentucky,the actions of EB would get you 3 to 5 in the state pen.(It is a felony.)
"Is it me or has the world gone completely apeshit?"
Geek Hillbilly
As some of you may know EB/Babbages and Funcloand stores are all now owned by the Barnes and Nobel group. ..she just wanted to get them back......I handled it differently than the Florida case in that to keep the customer from going any more ballistic we hade the corporate office replace the games that were already sold ( the legend of Zelda) and ate the loss.....we did blacklist the son and neighbor ...
If this store is using the model developed by Funco when I was worked for them in Texas the employees were required to get proof of who the person was ( state issues photo ID and if you are under 18 you needed a legal parent or guardian with you who then signed) and the customer was offered in store credit ( much higher $$ per game or to have a check mailed to the address on the picture ID. It sounds like the store manager might have been playing a little loose with the system put in place to differentiate the stores from pawn shops.
I had a situation pretty close to that happen to me in that the kid sold off his families games by bringing in a neighbor who posed as Dad so he could trade in twenty Nintendo games ( dating myself I know) for one super NES game... well grandma comes in the next day just livid at me...I explained the situation to her researched the transaction and asked her who the adult who signed the receipt was....she didn't care that her friend/neighbor enabled the kid to sell his games
I had the same thing happen, myself.
Mine was cable television equipment though. 5 scientific america boxes, to be exact.
Anyhow, they caught the dumbass, who tried to plug in the stolen boxes to see if they worked. Cox can tell you exactly where those boxes are on the network down to the tap port, then all you need is to look at the tag and see which house the line goes to.
Anyhow, in the end, the cops didn't do shit to help me get my stuff back. Cox did though.
I presume that everyone reading this on Slashdot will pass it on to everyone they know who may have ever done business with EB. I know I did. With a little luck, this could end up costing them huge in lost business. As far as I'm concerned, there's one thing EB could do to redeem themselves. The chain's corporate HQ could sue the franchise holder for damaging the corporate name through his illegal actions. Reimbursing this lady is necessary, but it is no longer enough by itself.
Where I (BC, Canada) live if the police have arrested the thief and have a confession they will go get the stolen goods and return them to the owner, if the owner is known. If they don't know the owner they still take the goods as possesion of stolen property is against the law - and selling goods known to be stolen is also illegal. The store would be completely out for the money paid for the stolen goods unless they sue the thief.
A local guy paid over $30,000 for a newish car from a car dealership, the police discovered the car was stolen and took the car, returning it to the owner. The dealership had done all the correct paperwork before selling so the guy was out $30,000. The true owner of the car automatically got his car back with the police's help.
I find it hard to believe that the Florida police in this case didn't just march down to EB, recover the stolen goods (for evidence at least!) then return the goods to the legal owner.
If this had happened where I live EB would have had no choice but to return the games.
Anarchists never rule
My house was robbed, and the items traded in at Gamestop.
Luckily, the police were on it fast, got the stuff seized, Gamestop fully cooperated. I been going there ever since.
EB, I used to go there all the time. Never again.
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Stores do this all the time. I had a similar circumstance where I had loaned a friend a large quantity of books. Then I was gone for a few months during the summer. When I got back, I found out that they had sold the books to a used book store in order to pay the rent. They had thought I had moved away for good or something. The book store in question refused to return the books, claiming I had no proof they were mine, despite my name being clearly written in, then marked over (but still legible) in each of the books. 75% had already been sold.
The police couldn't do anything until I pressed charges against the person who stole them. Then they came in and seized the remaining books. 6 months later, they were returned to me.
Suffice it to say, I'm not really friends with that person anymore. But, they did admit to it, and were willing to give the store the money back to get the books back. But the store wouldn't even do that. They wanted to sell them for full price. The remaining books would have cost more than the entire lot was purchased at by the store. In the end, I was more upset with the store than the person. I still won't return to that book store.
Got Apathy?
Seriously.
Someone at the company where I work got his car broken into. This was caught on the security camera. The guy pulls up in a red Toyota pickup, throws a rock through the window and steals everything inside. The license plate on the pickup truck was clearly visible on the security tape. After the tape was turned over to the police they went to the truck owner to investigate. His response: "I loaned it to my daughter's boyfriend." The police didn't even bother to follow up on what should have been an open and shut case. Never investigated the boyfriend, nothing.
Fine, the police don't have a lot of resources, they're underpaid, they have a tough job, they're understaffed, they work long hours. At the same time, they should be counted on to solve the easy crimes even with limited funding and they just won't do it.
From now on, their complaints are falling on deaf ears for me. They can't be counted on to do their jobs even when a case is handed to them. If they won't even make an effort to protect the citizens they're supposed to, why should I make an effort to care whether or not they have decent benefits.
Meanwhile, my dad got a ticket for wearing his seatbelt improperly from the local police(wearing it under his arm instead of over). I feel so much safer now that nasty lawbreakers like my dad have to pay fines for things that don't hurt anyone but himself.