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AT&T Wireless Phone "Upgrades" Aren't

An anonymous reader writes "AT&T Wireless is requiring customers in parts of California and New York and elsewhere to "upgrade" their phones and offering free replacements. The catch? In most cases the upgrades have worse features than the phones they're replacing."

51 of 372 comments (clear)

  1. Re:No Bluetooth by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Informative

    You own your phone, but in this case AT&T is telling these customers that if they don't trade in the phone, it won't work with AT&T anymore because the customer has a non-GSM phone, and AT&T is switching to GSM-only in their area.

  2. Re:No Bluetooth by ankit · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wrong. ALL GSM phones use SIM cards. And since this upgrade is only for GSM phones operating at 1900MHz, all affected phones use SIM cards.

    --
    Don't Panic
  3. Re:AT&T Wireless? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Informative

    The reason why AT&T Wireless was so attractive to SBC/Cingular is because AT&T already started building out a GSM network and were already comitted to converting their customers too.

    This is retirement point for the non-GSM AT&T networks in the areas where the customers are getting these notices. They have to get a new phone from somebody, because their old phone is about to become obsolete.

  4. Re:No Bluetooth by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2, Informative

    It all makes sense now! I never knew US phones didn't always need a SIM. Here in the UK you always have a SIM and the handset (normally included unless you go for Pay as you Go) is yours to do what you want with. The networks are so competetive you can often sell your free upgrade and make more than the year's contract cost. The phone I have was selling for ~450GBP on eBay when I got it, but the contract including the free phone and all the SMS/MMS/Minutes/GPRS that I need only cost 300GBP for the whole year.

  5. Re:"Free upgrades" by man_ls · · Score: 2, Informative

    TDMA is time division multiplex architecture (I think.)

    It's a 2.5G technology allowing for some serious latency and correction for doppler shift and almost 1.2 seconds of delay between packets, fairly well.

  6. Just complain by tedshultz · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is how companies save money. They give the cheapos to most people, and only give the more expensive items to people who complain. With most companies, complaining can get you some crazy good deals. If you are a 'good' customer, phone companies will go out of there way to serve you.

  7. Scam by zachlipton · · Score: 5, Informative
    ATT Wireless is really running a scam with this "upgrade" arrangement. See this post for more information. The real catch is that to get the "free" phone, you have to sign a new contract with them. Worse yet, it's not just a new contract, it's a two year contract (basically forever as far as I am concerned). The free phones they offer are of course pretty terrible (far more annoying than the free phone I got from them getting their service in the first place) and more importantly, their network is practically useless in many places unless you upgrade (since they rolled out the upgrade, I've had no service (GSM) throughout much of San Francisco). I would even be willing to just purchase a new cell phone, but they have made it impossible to purchase a phone at retail without a contract, and it would cost way too much (price gouging to force people to sign a contract basically).

    I'm currently shopping around for a new provider, though the crazy set of plans and prices that all the firms offer makes it impossible to compare plans or even figure out how much the service will cost.

    1. Re:Scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I work for said company and you WILL NOT be let out of your contract when/if the merger goes through. Read the T&C's before you post something. There is absolutely no modification made to your agreement if a merger happens. We all know /. is not known for accurate news, but wow. I have a background --more than most here-- in software and half the stuff on /. is, shall we say, slanted. I'd say that only 60% of information pertaining to software/hardware is correct, and this is from people who "know" there stuff. You cannot begin to imagine how painful it is to read through this thread and see how bad the misinformation, ignorance and stupidity can get. Probably only 2% of the information in this whole thread is correct.

      The facts:

      1) It is NOT required that these select people agree to a new contract of any kind. It is a "no strings attached" offer. Free phone to make coverage better, those bastards at AWE.

      2) You do NOT have to take the FREE phone!

      3) GSM equipment requires a SIM (Subscriber Identity Module). It is this SIM that actually holds all the registration information for the user.

  8. Got one.. and returned in less than a day! by JGski · · Score: 5, Informative
    Their update concept is very good concept, if and only if what you're offering for the upgrade is any good.

    Where does one begin?

    1. Current T68 is curvy, stylish and ergonomic in the hand, upgrade T226 phone is an ugly box, light and cheap feeling
    2. Only apparent "new feature": MMS - major yawn for anyone over the age of, I don't know, 14 years of age? On top of that doing anything with MMS deathly slow and cumbersome to use. As usually for tech marketing - forgot to ask customer what they actually wanted - this wasn't it!
    3. Oh yeah, polyphonic ring tones, too. BFD!
    4. More crap crammed into a too small space: joystick is usable on the T68; new phone it's nearly impossible to use. Just too small, and no actual "joystick", just 5 button placed inconveniently close in a cross.
    5. T68 keypad numbers are well illuminated for dialing in the dark; on the T226 they are utterly illegibly dim
    6. The screen seems to be a bit bigger on the T226 phone, but is actually worse readability than the T68 - presumably lower resolution.
    7. No bluetooth - from one of companies that invented no less; current T68 has bluetooth (complete with alternating, if silly, activity lights - online & bluetooth - it's inane but strangely comforting)
    8. Did mention the T226 is just d*mn ugly! It looks and feels like something you'd get out of a Crackjack box

    Tried the phone for a couple of hours and just gave up on it. Sent it back. Thankfully you can switch the SIM card back to the old phone so easily. If you have a T68, you are stepping way down with this phone! BMW to Yugo. You're a fool if you keep it. And now, of course, it'll be a case of once bitten, twice shy if they try it again.

    I don't know who to blame more: AT&T or Sony-Ericson. For AT&T, this will go down as one the stupidest tech marketing blunders in a while! For Sony-Ericson, well, the engineering team that designed the T226 should be taken out and shot. At the very least they should barred from designing any consumer electronic product - for life!

    When the T68 came out I thought maybe Ericson might finally have figured out what Nokia does right - with this phone it's apparent the T68 was just a lucky, but utterly random accident. :-p

  9. Re:No Bluetooth by arivanov · · Score: 2, Informative

    WTF/RTFA: all phones listed in the article are bog standard GMS phones which use bog standard GSM SIMs. Actually AFAIK there is only one phone - Siemens Xelibri (which is a prototype, not a manufactured model) which has the SIM built in.

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  10. Re:No Bluetooth by BrookHarty · · Score: 2, Informative

    AT&T took their time, continuing to offer popular new models that were missing the 850 MHz band, and thus wouldn't work with that part of their network.

    Really blame the vendors, Nokia, Sony and Motorola. They took off blue tooth, didnt offer phones with 850. Even blackberry didnt have 850 when first out, they do now.

    The phone vendors new for years that 850 was going to be used. The whole TDMA->GSM upgrade path was known years ago.

    The article is total fluff, if a phone had 850 it was offered. Cingular, ATTWS, Tmobile all offer the same phones, you cant blame ATTWS for phone vendors not having 850 on every model.

    Verizon has the same issue with GSM coverage, you cant take your phone over to the UK and still have it work. This is why they offer you another phone for traveling.

    While the wireless coverage is getting better, why arn't the phones? Place the blame on the correct group.

  11. Re:Almost switched to AT&T a little bit ago by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can you imagine you land line provider telling you that you would have to pay extra for using your line for a modem instead of voice?
    Actually, I can. TPSA Poland, installing special dampeners on their lines to prevent people from using modems faster than 12Kbps, so they could rip them off with their own Internet packages (ADSL) instead of using the lines to connect to cheaper ISPs.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  12. Re:No Bluetooth by ankit · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dude, all GSM phones need a SIM card to identify themselves to the network. There is no way a GSM phone can work without one. As another poster posted, there are probably very few (maybe just one or two) phones that have SIM cards non-replacable by the user. But even these phones do infact have sim cards!

    Your friends probably use phones that work on CDMA/TDMA.

    --
    Don't Panic
  13. Also in Portland Oregon by Sloth503 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I got the letter on Friday from ATTWS, saying that they were sending me a new phone. They are supposedly providing return shipping for the old phone but the letter didn't say anything about HAVING to return the old phone to get the new phone. I'll be interested in reading the fine print when the new phone shows up but I'm not worried. I have no interest in downgrading from my T68i to this lesser phone, and I have no interest in returning either my old phone or the new one they are sending to me. More information can be found at: http://sonyericssont226upgrade.com/

    Now, some background information on the return issue - I used to manage the returns department for a dotcom and thus I was supposed to know a bit about returns issues. I cannot name the specific regulation by name, but the FTC says that if a merchant sends you a product that you didn't order, it is your's for free. They can ask for you to pay for it, they can ask for you to return it, they can call you bad names for keeping it, but they cannot require you to return it nor can they require you to pay for it. Keep this in mind for this new phone and any future boxes that end up at your door step. Now, since we are all ATTWS subscribers and signed some contract when we got our service, they might actually be able to force us to return the new phones or pay for them, but I'm not sure.

    Now here's the part about the whole deal that makes me worried. Why are they sending new phones for free to people? Why aren't they just letting us keep our outdated phones and stop selling them, and start selling the new phones? What is the benefit of sending me a new phone and asking for me to return my old phone? At first I thought they wanted to give me a new phone with more features so that I'd send more SSM messages, or download ringtones, or do something else that would generate more revenue for ATTWS, but I don't think that is the case, if it was I think they would have given out even cooler phones. Frankly I cannot use a phone without Bluetooth, I just cannot, if the new phone had all the features of my old phone and some bonuses it would be a different story but... ATTWS is doing something it doesn't have to. They are giving out free phones when they don't have to. It doesn't make any sense, they should just stop selling the old phones. I think there is more to the story unfortunately, and I think that the end effect is that sooner or later my old phone will no longer work with ATTWS.

    Will someone please file a class action lawsuit. I'm already ready to sign up.

    1. Re:Also in Portland Oregon by wfberg · · Score: 2, Informative

      They might be planning on "turning off" the older network as soon as the existing contracts of people with the older phones ends.


      The T68 does 900/1800/1900 and the replacement does 850 and 1900. The 850 network is in addition to the 1900 one. Otherwise they wouldn't be getting any extra capacity.

      As for replacing TDMA or CDMA with GSM, well that could happen, but when you hand out dual-band phones, you expand your network, not just shift it around. Otherwise the FCC might come and get those frequencies back from you and give them to a competitor, and you don't want that.

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
  14. But they didn't give a choice. by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Informative

    The first I heard of this "upgrade" program was a card I got in the mail a week ago last Friday. It doesn't say, "Hey, if you want, you can switch to this phone," it says, "We're giving you this phone in exchange for yours."

    When I saw what a feature-lacking piece of shit the T226 is compared to my T68i, I called the number on the card to see if I had an option of declining this allegedly-generous gesture. When they told me I could refuse the T226, they took my name and checked to see if my T226 had already been shipped out, and it had-- via UPS, according to the CSR, who told me to just refuse the package.

    I am in complete agreement that the T616 should have been the replacement phone for the T68i. Not everyone is purely interested in stupid-ass ringtones and games. Every feature I bought the T68i for is missing in the T226, so I don't see how anyone can call that an upgrade with a straight face.

    ~Philly

  15. Re:No Bluetooth by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Negative. As the sibling to your comment says, all GSM phones require a SIM card. I use T-Mobile, which uses 1900MHz GSM; AT&T and Cingular also both provide 1900MHz GSM service (my phone can see them both, never tried to hop on those networks though, if I succeeded I would almost certainly pay a mint for roaming.) The difference in the US market is that the phones are "locked" to a specific provider so you can't swap sim cards, and you have to get your data cable and an unlock utility, or pay someone to unlock your phone. These days people do remote unlocking, which means you buy the cable and plug your phone in, then you run some little program which lets them reprogram your phone over the 'net, or you can buy a "dongle" which you plug the phone into and it unlocks. These so-called computerless phone hacking tools of course have a microcontroller in 'em, so they're a computer anyway... But that's the story.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. Re:No Bluetooth by jlaxson · · Score: 5, Informative

    RTFA. The phones being "upgraded" all use GSM in only one of AT&T's two GSM frequency bands. They want you to upgrade to phones that support both of the bands, for purposes of coverage. (if you can only use one of the bands, all the cell towers in the other band are off-limits to you.)

    --
    On Apple Input Peripherals: They're okay, I guess, but I was really hoping for a one-key keyboard and a 109-button mouse
  17. So who do I use instead? by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2, Informative

    I travel a lot in the wilderness, and I'm often in places where the only service available is analog cellular. AT&T's One Rate service was excellent, and I still have their Panasonic Tuff phone (don't know why they ever discontinued this beast, I've dropped it so often and it still works well)...

    So if I need to switch carriers, who else still offers analog service?

  18. Who cares about the phones? TDMA is the way to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Switch carriers. TDMA is the BEST cell phone standard in the United States. You can get coverage virtually ANYWHERE. Because TDMA is so much older, it has longer range and better sound quality. Switching from a TDMA phone to a GSM phone is OF COURSE A DOWNGRADE.

    I have TDMA service through Cellular One in Oregon and I LOVE it. I've made phone calls on Mt Hood, South Sister and lots of other strange, way away from civilization places you wouldn't expect a phone to work.

    Plus, TDMA plans are generally cheaper because the cell companies have already paid off their investment in them.

  19. AT&T GSM SUCKS by vthokiestm · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was a "charter member" of the AT&T GSM service after being a TDMA member for 2 years. Man it sucked. I couldn't wait for the year contract to end. Everywhere I went in the country (mostly the NE and NW) the service was spotty at best. Keep clear of AT&T GSM.

  20. Re:So? And Request for Opinions on AT&T Wirele by WhoDaresWins · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't know about Kansas, but at least in California AT&T GSM is one of the worse choices you could make -
    http://nordicgroup.us/ssub/sfbaratings.htm
    http://nordicgroup.us/ssub/scaratings.htm
    (look at the overall coverage numbers in that table)
    Generally Verizon is considered to have the best coverage and service. SprintPCS would be second and they have much cooler phones (but only one BlueTooth phone). Overall CDMA has a technical edge over GSM in terms of spectral efficiency and the carriers ability to upgrade to newer technologies. However I would advise you to do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Don't go by everything the GSM camp is telling you. You will find many interesting resources about cell phones and their technologies if you explore the other links on the site I linked to above.

  21. Re:This happened to me by arivanov · · Score: 1, Informative
    my service meter would go from 5 bars to 0

    Bwahahahaha.... Beacon on one frequency (possibly one band) and data channels on another. So your phone RACH-ed on 1900 and got told to use 850 in the immediate assignment. So if you are with a single band phone you just got stuffed...

    This happens in EU as well (though not so often). Basically you must have a phone that covers all local bands for it to work reliably. If it is a single band you may get stuffed because your operator have got a licence mainly in one band and has minimal capacity in the other which they use only to push consumers into the "band proper".

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  22. Re:"Free upgrades" by NDeans · · Score: 5, Informative

    WRONG! There are three phones currently available that have BOTH GSM and TDMA! Actually two of them even include analog AMPS. They are: The Sony-Ericsson T62u - GSM 850/1900 w/GPRS TDMA 800/1900 AMPS 800 The Nokia 6340i - GSM 850/1900 TDMA 800/1900 AMPS 800 and The Siemens S46 - GSM 900/1900 w/GRPS TDMA 800/1900 So yes, there are ways to have your cake and eat it too, with GSM and TDMA. These phones are known as GAIT phones, and will give you the best coverage possible. Currently AT&T Wireless only sells the SOny t62u and the Siemens s46. Cingular sells the 6340i. If there are any more questions feel free to ask.

  23. Re:"Free upgrades" by po8 · · Score: 3, Informative

    My Siemens S46 does both GSM bands and both TDMA bands. It gets pretty good AT&T coverage in rural Oregon, which is saying something. Cheap, too, and works as a dataphone and web browser. Unfortunately, no high-end functionality: camera, etc. are lacking, and it's monochrome.

  24. Re:"Free upgrades" by doormat · · Score: 4, Informative

    TDMA = Time Division Multiple Access

    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/TDMA.html

    --
    The Doormat

    If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
  25. Re:No Bluetooth by ankit · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, I am in the US, and I continue to stick with what I said. SIM cards are a requirement for GSM, and this is the reason why you can eaily switch between providers and phone morels on GSM. Not so on TDMA (the old AT&T system that still has many, many subscribers), or CDMS (sprint).

    --
    Don't Panic
  26. Re:All I want to do is make phone calls.... by TeddyR · · Score: 4, Informative
    --

    --
    Time is on my side
  27. I had the same problem with sprint by Tikiman · · Score: 5, Informative

    I had a nice, top of the line Nokia - a couple years later, calls would randomly disconnect. I used equipment replacement twice and get back the same model. Finally they tell me my phone is no longer compatible with their network! I asked to be transfered to the guy who could close my account, since my phone was entirely useless. Instead they transferred me to the guy who sent me a new phone, which did turn out to be a marginal upgrade due to two years of advancement in the technology. Eventually they even gave me a nice credit on my account for the months my phone was useless. However, I had to threaten to terminate my account before getting any results.

  28. http://www.sonyericssont226upgrade.com by tetro · · Score: 2, Informative

    linky That's the website with some info about the upgrade.

    --
    .smell my feet.
  29. Bluetooth data connection by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can use my bluetooth phone as a data connection for my laptop, or for something like the Palm Tungsten with a bluetooth connection. Then I don't have to rely on having a wireless or dialup connection wherever I go.

    It's not the speediest thing, but it's far nicer browsing on a laptop than a phone and is faster than dialup.

    And of course you can use the bluetooth phone as a controller for various apps on the laptop - most useful for presentations, but it has a few other cool uses as well.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  30. Re:No Bluetooth by EchoMirage · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ok, you win. This has to be a terminology problem Let's reformulate: There is no GSM network in the US, because according to your specs they would have to provide SIMS, and none of them does. So those AT&T phones we're talking about are not GSMs. End of argument.

    You're either incredibly foolish or a troll (my money is on the latter), but I'll reply anyway: YES there ARE GSM networks in the U.S.A. and YES every single one of them sells phones that require SIM (subscriber identity module) cards. As other posters who are actually clued in have noted, it's part of the GSM spec for a phone to have a SIM card.

    There were two types of SIM cards: the original, old Type I cards, which looked like a credit card, and the newer Type II cards, which are the thumbnail-sized cards. You can see pretty pictures here. Type I cards haven't been used since the mid-90s. The last Type I-accepting phone I remember seeing was (IIRC) a GSM Motorola StarTac.

    The only major GSM carrier in the U.S.A. until 3 or 4 years ago was Voicestream (Western Wireless), which became T-Mobile after the Deutsche Telekom buyout. As part of the upstart of 2.5G services here in the U.S., other companies such as AT&T and BellSouth started building up GSM networks.

    You can see the "proof" that they're GSM networks by Googling for "BellSouth GSM" or "AT&T GSM." Other proof that there are GSM phones: I just took the battery off my Sony Ericsson T68i and...suprise! A GSM SIM card! Just like the ones I used to put in the back of every customer's phone back when I was a VoiceStream dealer. Just like the GSM SIM cards inside every single "next generation" AT&T phone, and every single T-Mobile phone. So forth and so on ad nauseum.

    In related news, I've blacklisted you for making repeated stupid statements without taking 10 seconds to STFG.

  31. Re:"Free upgrades" by EchoMirage · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why can't AT&T offer you a GSM phone that falls back to TDMA (whatever that is?).

    They do. The Siemens S46. Great phones! Major travellers carry them (the editor of a major magazine's international bureau, for one example that I know off the top of my head).

    BTW To pick nits, GSM doesn't fall back to TDMA. GSM is a TDMA-based network. TDMA is an architecture, and GSM is a specification.

  32. What it really means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    AT&T has stopped putting in any new TDMA equipment. They are only putting up new GSM towers (in association with Cingular).

    This means that if you are in an area with lousy TDMA reception, it will never improve; never work any better. They won't respond to your call quality complaints.

    There's nothing to stop you from still having a TDMA/GSM plan and phone. Thye have them. The clerks in the store might not understand it, but the folks at Customer Care do.

    I have the Sony Ericsson T62U - this phone does GSM, TDMA, and AMPS (analog). I have the triple plan, and I can use my phone virtually anywhere.

    Honestly, it makes sense for AT&T to only be proceeding with new GSM service. While the coverage is certainly not on par with the existing technologies, their statements of support are fine, IMO. Be an intelligent consumer and get a multi-mode phone and plan if you travel out of the GSM coverage area.

  33. Re:No Bluetooth by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 2, Informative
    This is a GSM provider doing this to their customers. It's a switch to change frequencies (specifically, to add 850 MHz to the existing 1900 MHz). Apparantly phones with those features aren't available with 850 MHz.

    Just switch to Cingular; you're all gonna be Cingular customers soon anyway.

    --
    If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
  34. Re:No Bluetooth-Lost and Found. by Mindtoy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, on T-Mobile after you've had the phone for a while you can send an email requesting the unlock code to SIMUnlock@T-Mobile.com I had no problems getting my Nokia 3390 unlock code from them.

  35. You dope! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    > ...and I threw it in the trash upon receiving it. I paid $120+ for my T68i

    First, that phone goes into a landfill somewhere. You could have donated it at ANY Staples.

    Secondly, you could have sold it on eBay and at least gotten something for it.

  36. Re:No Bluetooth by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Informative
    SIMs are part of the GSM spec. Whereas CDMA and TDMA phones need the id programmed into the ROM, you cannot possibly have seen a GSM phone with such a thing.

    I've had GSM phones from AT&T, BellSouth DCS, and T-Mobile, and all three had SIMs. You may possibly be confused because until recently AT&T didn't have a GSM network, it ran a TDMA (IS-136/D-AMPS/insert name of the day) network. Phones on that older, non-GSM, standard did not, obviously, use SIMs because they weren't GSM!

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  37. Re:morons abound... by Jasn · · Score: 3, Informative
    When I signed up there was no T616 available. I bought the best worldphone available, I found after best diligence that the coverage map I was counting on wasn't remotely close to half-right (I'm talking 100-mile misses), even before forming agreements with Cingular, and in response to my and others' issues with that, I get an offer that couldn't even reasonably be considered a sidegrade rather than a downgrade. Yeah, what a moron I am!

    And the best prices in the business aren't much good if a company turns around and says "all that stuff we promised in our contract and materials? We were just kidding! Sucks to be you!" That's arguably fraudulent ... glad to see you think the customers are to blame though.

  38. Re:Who cares about the phones? TDMA is the way to by cygnus · · Score: 3, Informative
    Switch carriers. TDMA is the BEST cell phone standard in the United States. You can get coverage virtually ANYWHERE. Because TDMA is so much older, it has longer range and better sound quality. Switching from a TDMA phone to a GSM phone is OF COURSE A DOWNGRADE.

    I have TDMA service through Cellular One in Oregon and I LOVE it. I've made phone calls on Mt Hood, South Sister and lots of other strange, way away from civilization places you wouldn't expect a phone to work.

    newsflash: GSM uses TDMA. it's just a particular implementation of TDMA. all TDMA is is a way to multiplex calls based on a time-dependent protocol. and for long distance range (over 10 miles), CDMA actually tops TDMA/GSM.

    i say all of the above being an unabashed GSM user. i just hate Verizon and like the features of GSM phones.

    and a hint for at&t people getting "upgrades": you're probably eligible for a customer retention upgrade. skip all this crossgrade nonsense and call at&t and say you want a new phone for being a long-term customer. i got a T616 for my T68i for free like this. you'll end up getting whatever prices a new subscriber would get, so check on at&t's website before you call.

    --
    Just raise the taxes on crack.
  39. Re:No Bluetooth by frdmfghtr · · Score: 2, Informative

    my phone can see them both, never tried to hop on those networks though, if I succeeded I would almost certainly pay a mint for roaming.

    No you won't, unless there is a T-Mobile plan that doesn't include nationwide roaming, which I have never seen. I have T-Mobile, and whenever I go down to North Carolina, I am roaming on Cingular's GSM network and have never paid a single red cent for roaming.

    The only roaming I have ever paid is when I roam internationally. Then I pay many red cents.

    --
    Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
  40. More about GSM networks and operating frequencies by motown · · Score: 2, Informative

    In Europe, the 900MHz and 1800MHz ranges have been reserved (exclusively) for GSM networks for quite a few years. No standards other than GSM are allowed on these frequencies. Countries in Asia and Africa that also adopted the GSM standard ended up licensing the same frequency bands for compatibility reasons.

    In North-America, the 1900MHz range was reserved for digital cellular networks. The US chose not to define a single mandatory cellular standard for use with this frequency. As a result, there are currently three different and incompatible standards in the US that are deployed in the 1900MHz range: TDMA, CDMA and GSM. All 1900MHz digital cellular networks (using any standard) are generally referred to as "PCS". TDMA is now considered to be obsolete and is gradually being replaced by GSM.

    The 850MHz band is also available for cellular communications in the US. If I remember correctly, this freqency was already used for analog networks before digital cellular technology was introduced.

    Digital technology offers many advantages over analog technology (security, bandwidth utilization efficiency, data services, quality of service). Therefore, cellular network providers desired to upgrade their analog networks to digital networks as much and quickly as possible. The 850Mhz licenses were still valuable, since the companies had payed a lot of money for them, and because lower frequencies offer a greater range (with the same transmitting power) than higher frequencies. In practice that means that a 850MHz network would require less antennas than a 1900MHz network within the same area of coverage.

    Because of this, the GSM850 (sub)standard was officially ratified. This allowed GSM technology to be deployed in 850MHz networks.

    One thing I did notice was that the major cellular phone manufacturers have sofar been slow with introducing 850MHz-compatibility in their new models.

    Of course, it took some years for triband phones (900MHz/1800MHz/1900MHz) to become generally available, providing reasonable coverage in North America and excellent coverage in most of the rest of the world.

    As far as I know, there are still no quadband phones (800MHz/850MHz/1800MHz/1900MHz), although I'm sure that that will be simply a matter of time. Those would be the ultimate roaming phones for frequent transatlantic travellers. :-)

    The only two countries with mobile networks that don't have any GSM coverage are South-Korea and Japan.

    --
    "Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
  41. Re:morons abound... by GeorgeH · · Score: 2, Informative

    T68i supports 900, 1800 and 1900Mhz. And the shitty service wouldn't be a problem if they weren't phasing out 900Mhz for 850Mhz towers. My T68i worked fine 2 years ago, it's unusable now (which is why I ditched AT&T and am getting my T68i unlocked to be a T-Mobile backup)

    --
    Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
  42. SIMUnlock@t-mobile.com: WRONG by hirschma · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sorry, email to that address bounces back. How about checking your incorrect facts before you post?

    Jonathan

  43. Re:No Bluetooth by Mattcelt · · Score: 2, Informative

    AT&T sent me a SMS telling me they were offering a Sony Ericsson T226 to replace my T68i.

    I called the 800 number and was told that I could either use the new phone when it was sent to me (and send my t68i back), or return the new one and continue using my current one.

    I am opting to continue using my T68i since the T226 doesn't have Bluetooth, a very important feature to me.

    I don't know if users of other phones are being required to upgrade. The T68i is a tri-band phone (800, 900, and 1900Mhz), which may be why I'm allowed to continue using it. But AT&T is most definitely NOT forcing all of its GSM users to switch phones. I won't give up mine unless they offer a T616 or something with features comparable to the T68i.

  44. Unlocking your T-Mobile phone by exhilaration · · Score: 2, Informative
    They don't do the e-mail thing anymore, use the form on their website to request your unlock code.

    Use the following topic and sub-topic to make sure it gets routed to the right people:
    Topic: Products and Services
    Sub-topic: GSM & Smart Card Technology

    I had two earlier phones (Nokia & Motorola) unlocked via the e-mail, and I recently had my Nokia 3650 unlocked via the above form.

    Just make sure you've been a customer for at least 6 months, and that you are STILL a customer.

  45. Re:More about GSM networks and operating frequenci by liquidzero4 · · Score: 2, Informative

    GSM is TDMA based....... TDMA is a just a chanell access method. (If you don't belive me do a little seach on the internet) The main differance between USA TDMA based networks and GSM TDMA based networks stems mainly from the telcom equipment used in europe. In the us the TDMA networks used T1's / Tx's from the message swtichs, TDMA sync is based off the T sync. In europe they use E1 which is differnt hence the synch parameters are differnt. Other than the TDMA in the US and TDMA used in european GSM are the same. Obviously this synch problem has been over come propably by using external clocks.

  46. Re:No Bluetooth by JiggsJedi · · Score: 5, Informative

    I used to work for AT&T Wireless. ALL GSM phones require a SIM card (Contains your Home SID, ICCID, MDN aka your phone#). TDMA phones require no SIM as they have an EEPROM built-in to store the NAM - Numerically Assigned Module (containg Home SID, ESN, MDN).

    One multi-band phone (that is TDMA/GSM capable) actually requires a special SIM card for the dual functionality. This SIM module contains the EEPROM equivalent for the TDMA programming of the phone separate from the GSM side of the SIM. This is the Sony T26U (it also utilizes Analog towers too). This a true GSM phone with a TDMA overlay. The Siemans S46 has a built in ROM and uses a SIM, this is a TDMA phone with a GSM overlay.

    But all GSM phones require a SIM card, this is not only a spec for the GSM network, but if a GSM phone (assuming multi-band, ie. Siemans S46) is running without a SIM, it would only run in TDMA mode, and if not a multi-band, it would not complete its "power up" to an operational state; it would error and demand a SIM to be entered. The Sony T62U will not function without a SIM.

    Most GSM phones are NOT multi-band. They would therefor require a SIM. Multi-band phones generally don't come with the "eye candy" that other phones do (ie. Cam, Colour, Blue Tooth). These are more for people who need a phone to be a phone all the time (best coverage over multiple networks) and not a toy.

    For a little insight... Thanks to LNP or line number portability there is now an MIN/MDN combination within the HLR (Home Location Registry). The MDN is your Mobile Dialable Number but you also have a MIN which is the Mobile Identification Number (or Routing Number). Some of you AT&T customers may have seen on your TDMA phones you manually programmed a number into your phone that was not your wireless number. This is what allows the porting. People dial your "phone #" which goes to the company who owns your number range (from 0000-9999), who have that number cross referenced with the your current carrier. They then send your call to the carrier your are currently with and your carrier then address' your phone by an assigned routing number (and it is a number in a range they currently own!).

    Example: You are with Sprint from 555-0000 and move to AT&T. Your phone is programmed with your ROUTING# 555-1234. You can place calls, but not receive them. Your old phone is still fully functional, so you can RECEIVE/PLACE calls there). AT&T initiates a port request to Sprint. They send Sprint a request with your Name/Addr/Cell#/Acct#/. Sprint setups the link in their systems to Switch/Forward your calls to AT&T. Once the link on Sprints end is completed that allows INCOMING calls to move from Sprint to AT&T and through their switches and to your cell phone via a cross reference to your assigned routing#. Your Sprint account is also closed at this point and your old phone stops working. But ALL your incoming calls go to the carrier who owns your number, and is then sent to your current carrier. This is transparent with GSM as all programming is done Over the Air.

    If you have a routing number in your phone, and you call it; you will get someone else as routing numbers are actual phone numbers, but are internal only. All numbers are now used twice. Once as a link from phone to network (routing#, internal, dynamic), and once as a link between network and the world (dialable#, external, static). With the way this system works, they all started with your MIN==MDN, but when you change carriers and as more and more inter/intra-company ports are setup, your routing# will be given to someone else, and will most likely never be a match to your dialable# again.

    Your phone# only goes as far as the company who owns it.

    Just my 0.02. Jiggs

    --
    Women are like internet domains. All the ones I like are taken, but I can still get one from a strange country.
  47. Re:"Free upgrades" by NDeans · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here are links to BOTH phones on AT&T's site:

    Siemens S46 and the Sony Ericsson t62u

    They have not discontinued that feature. Also you may wish to call 611 or 1-800-888-7600 and ask one of the CS reps about the Multi-Band plans.

    For someone who sounds very frustrated, it doesn't seem like you have _really_ researched the problem.

  48. Re:Upgrades = downgrades by NeMon'ess · · Score: 2, Informative

    answered my own question thanks to google. see here

  49. Re:No Bluetooth by cuban321 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Really because I'm sitting here looking at my Girlfriend's Nokia phone and under the battery is.... what's this?? a SIM card?

    Interesting, she has TMobile as well. Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's not there...