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Thirty-Three States Contributed to the MATRIX

lexbaby writes "The Salt Lake Tribune has an article claiming that at least 33 states have released government and commercial records on residents to the controversial MATRIX (Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange) network instead of the originally claimed 13." Don't worry, there's plenty of RAM for all 50 and the territories too.

47 of 328 comments (clear)

  1. Avoiding trouble in the first place... by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    With this in mind, here are tips to help you avoid being labeled a terrorist:

    Mouth shut, eyes forward, do what you're told. Don't question authority.

    Smile for the cameras. They're everywhere and they're watching you.

    Secure all zippers, buttons, tie clips, etc. Wardrobe Malfunction isn't funny anymore, it's subversive.

    Turn in your neighbors on the slightest hint they're trouble makers. You won't get a pair a blue jeans, but you help keep your country safe.

    Pokemon: Catch 'em all, otherwise you never know where they are or what they are up to.

    Cover your mouth when coughing or sneezing to avoid Germ Warfare Terrorist label.

    Vote for the most patriotic sounding politician, no matter what their platform.

    Remember, we're all in this together.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by machine+of+god · · Score: 3, Funny
      you forgot:

      Always wear your foil hat underneath a real hat, otherwise they'll know you know.

    2. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by Dalcius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      WAR IS PEACE
      FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

      Please board the nearest transportation to the Ministry of Love, they are waiting to see you.

      --
      ~Dalcius
      Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
    3. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Mod this post up. McCarthy would be spooging himself if he were alive today.

      IIRC, McCarthy's quest began by seeking special treatment by the U.S. Army for Pvt G. David Schine, a former aide to Roy Cohn, friend and ally of McCarthy. McCarthy's list ("I have in my hand a list...") was BS, but once the lying for favoritism got going it was hard to stop and took on a life of it's own, alledging the Army was full of communist sympathisers because they refused special treatment to Schine. Pretty ugly, but today isn't quite that bad, yet.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by GPLDAN · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well that's the wonderful thing about incredible amounts of data mining software and huge databases. You can make it that bad at much faster rate. Entire periods of historical precendent collapse under a compressed timeline. A single President can implement a police state and revoke 100 years of case law regarding privacy with a single sweep of the mouse, all in one term.

    5. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by iminplaya · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tin foil hat?...humbug! I'm getting a tin foil tent.(half way down page)

      --
      What?
    6. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Always wear your foil hat underneath a real hat, otherwise they'll know you know.

      Good point. Thank you very much.

      "Good manners aren't just a good idea, they're the law!"

      "You're under arrest."
      "What for?"
      "You didn't thank him."
      "Oh, sorry."
      "Too late for that, Sir."
      "Very well, thank you for arresting me."
      "You're welcome."

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    7. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by Dalcius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am not trying to say that the US is in any way close to the country described in '1984', but certain people in our government have *always* pushed for some very close parallels and it's creepy whenever they surface.

      I can only hope that the upcoming generation has been taught enough independence to value their freedom and fight the authoritarians. The good thing about a democratic society is that the pendulum swings both ways, and given time usually corrects itself. The current voters (baby boomers) didn't deal with as much McCarthyism as their parents and their apathy is going to get us in trouble.

      Hopefully it will correct itself as it often has.

      Cheers

      --
      ~Dalcius
      Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
    8. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
      No, what he forgot is the fact that about 2,000 people died on 9/11, while 300,000 die every year due to obesity.

      Oh, that and the fact that that they are willing to destroy our rights over the first one, and do little to nothing about the second.

      Politicians make me sick.

    9. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by ciggieposeur · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Damn, I lost my chance to moderate just to say:

      "Fuck you."

      Nobody is forcing you to stay in America if you don't like it. America, love it or leave it fscker.

      You want to pay for my moving expenses? You want to lobby a foreign government on my behalf to grant me a visa to stay in that country?

      No? Well OK then, go shut the fuck up.

      There's LOTS of people forcing me to stay in America: my creditors, American politicians, foreign politicians, my parents, my wife's family, better-educated-than-American European citizens, poor foreign workers who don't want me to have one of the few jobs in their neck of the world. You Mr Anonymous Coward are a nitwitted dumbass who obviously has had no direct contract with foreign cultures if you think any old middle-class American family with a beef against the government can just pick up and leave. Shit I can't even get into Mexico to work at a sweatshop.

      Let me also point out the American idea that we vote for our own government misleaders, hence the government is "by the people, for the people". When you defend a totalitarian government, you point out to the entire world that you don't know shit from squat about the idealistic American Dream, and that it's YOU who don't belong here. If you had given any clue that you knew what the hell you were talking about you might have appeared to be one of the minority of Americans who know the actual brutal history of the country and the struggle of its people to create a real democracy despite the government. But you're obviously not one of those people, so again Fuck You for being a dumbass who believes in the thin blue line and will vote for the creation of a despotism in the land *I* call home.

      YOU are the non-American here, and your First Amendment right to ignorant speech ends at my property line in rural Texas. Actually not too far from the place a few ATF agents upholding a corrupt regime got their lives terminated in self-defense by some religious nuts in 1993.

      Do you Mr Anonymous Coward want me to leave America? I invite you to try and kick me out. You'll need lots of bullets.

    10. Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... by secolactico · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Procreation will be nothing more than an annual ritual"

      ONLY ONCE A YEAR????

      Come to think of it, it might be an improvement on my current conditions...

      --
      No sig
  2. Wow by dupper · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can't believe they actually had the balls to call it that.

    1. Re:Wow by astrashe · · Score: 4, Funny

      That was exactly my reaction -- I can't believe they'd call it that. You can sort of imagine them sitting around a table, and making a toast "to evil."

      I wonder if those guys model themselves on agent smith -- try to look like him, imitate his mannerisms, setc.

      You'd think they'd call it something like "children's protection and technological development project" instead.

  3. Genealogical data too? by robslimo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the Mormons keeping track of their ancestors and all, do you suppose that some (most?) of the info that Utah willingly provided was from those vast genealogical records?

    I wonder if/how that would help the MATRIX project. Hmm.

  4. Fear Sells. by grub · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Once this MATRIX is proven to be useless, either by failing to catch terrorists or not predicting the next attack, will the government kill the program? Of course not.

    Fear has always been a great method to let government erode privacy and rights.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Fear Sells. by Fascist+Christ · · Score: 5, Funny

      People hate terrorists. Let's make a list.

      People hate child molestors. Let's make a list.

      People hate corrupt politicians. Shhhhhh.

      --
      TodayTM BillyJoelTM GoogleTMd for StitchTMes due to WindowsTM while RollerbladeTMing with an AppleTM and a PopsicleTM
    2. Re:Fear Sells. by DrEldarion · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hypothetically, though, what happens if it does contribute to blocking a terrorist attack?

      Would you change your mind about it?

      Would you rather have a few hundred people dead or have a little information stored about you in a database?

      Just playing devil's advocate here.

    3. Re:Fear Sells. by Chiron+Taltos · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This will sound cold, but I'd take the few hundred people dead.

      I don't believe we should surrender our civil liberties just because there are people out there willing to kill us. There have ALWAYS been people out there willing to kill us.

      French (French & Indian War)
      English (American Revolution, War of 1812)
      Ourselves (U.S. Civil War)
      Japanese (World War II)

      Why, now, is it okay to abuse our civil liberties?

      --
      CT

  5. I actually run one website by ghettoboy22 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Aksearch.net is a db I compiled from a few various databases the State of Alaska makes available. I have address and phone numbers for approx 98% of residents of Alaska. I also have DOB for about 5%, and voting records of all eligable voters. All available for free. Scarry huh?

  6. They're not messing around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was recently stopped by the cops (while walking) here in FL. I was stopped for crossing the street with an open container of beer on the way to my neighbor's house.

    Anyway, what was spooky about it is they were able to immediately look up my record--I got busted smoking pot at a concert about 10 years ago in NJ--literally a thousand miles away. Even though this was expunged from my record nearly ten years ago, they found out about it from their cars, without me every mentioning that I ever lived anywhere other than FL. That sucks.

    1. Re:They're not messing around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes I am also a "victim" of the system.
      A few years ago when renewing my drivers license in Nebraska I was told that I had a suspended license in the state of Florida. Hmmm I haven't been in Florida since Carter was President. I tried to fight the suspension but being a poor person (one that couldn't afford the $500 lawyer fee that was quoted) I initially threatened to turn myself in to the local authorities stating I had a warrant in the state of FL and at least get a "FREE" trip to Florida, I finally paid what was owed on the ticket and the extortion money^H^H^H^H^H reinstatement fee for the ticket only to find out that that particular person that had the outstanding warrant his physical description was no where near mine.... about 6 inches taller and he was a different color, along with having the DL number blacked out
      and I ended up paying over $200 just to get a stupid license renewal here in Nebraska.
      Makes you wonder if the tin-hat crowd is not on to something.

    2. Re:They're not messing around by qtp · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Even though this was expunged from my record nearly ten years ago,
      localhost:~$ dict -d gcide expunged
      1 definition found

      From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:

      Expunge \Ex*punge"\ ([e^]ks*p[u^]nj"), v. t. [imp. & p. p.
      {Expunged} ([e^]ks*p[u^]njd"); p. pr. & vb. n. {Expunging}
      ([e^]ks*p[u^]n"j[i^]ng).] [L. expungere, expunctum, prick
      out, expunge, settle an account, execute; ex out + pungere to
      prick, puncture. See {Pungent.}]
      1. To blot out, as with pen; to rub out; to efface
      designedly; to obliterate; to strike out wholly; as, to
      expunge words, lines, or sentences.
      [1913 Webster]

      2. To strike out; to wipe out or destroy; to annihilate; as,
      to expunge an offense. --Sandys.
      [1913 Webster]

      Expunge the whole, or lop th' excrescent parts.
      --Pope.

      Syn: To efface; erase; obliterate; strike out; destroy;
      annihilate; cancel.
      [1913 Webster]
      I guess "expunge" means something different to law enforcement. It must be nice to be legally permitted to use words without any regard to thier actual meaning. If you or I were to takle the same liberties with the language when speakeng to a judge, we'd be charged with perjury.

      --
      Read, L
  7. Re:Excellent by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Whatever we need to stop these bastards. The ones who fear these things are the ones who really have something to hide. I dunno about you, but I didn't enjoy the Spain incident.

    I don't know if it's on the web, but there was a wonderful series of Pogo (by Walt Kelly) strips from the early 70's where Spiro Agnew (then Vice President) was portrayed (appropriately) as a hyena in military uniform. For the good of the country all suspect people were rounded up and jailed. The end result was everyone in jail except him, including his cronies and assistants.

    Sounds like history repeating itself.

    Spiro Agnew later resigned due to mounting pressure over scandal for tax evasion and bribe taking.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  8. Re:list please! by MalaclypseTheYounger · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here is a link to the MATRIX, apparently they don't update their website information much..

    CLICKY HERE

    http://www.matrix-at.org/states.htm

    Here is the Wired article that was posted here a day or two ago, which has more info on which states are involved...

    CLICKY HERE http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,62564,00. html?tw=wn_tophead_1

    --
    Check out the best P2P sharing website: MEDIACHEST.COM
  9. This rock keeps tigers away by k3v0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    do you see any tigers? it must work

    1. Re:This rock keeps tigers away by Dalcius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When was the last foreign terrorist attack in this country?
      9/11

      Before that?
      Anyone?

      1993?

      I am NOT arguing with you, "see, we're safe" works for enough folks to keep the population apathetic. It IS creepy, though, when you think about it:
      How easy would it be to walk across the Canadian border, walk into a border-town theatre, and blow yourself up?

      It seems like this crap happens on a daily basis in the Middle East, but we never see this stuff.

      Either they aren't out to get us as much as we think or the government has already been doing a good job.

      Believe me, I understand the rammifications of a WMD attack -- looking at what certain chemicals and bioagents can do is very sobering. However I don't think the risk is high enough that the government now has a right to actively suspect (monitor) all citizens without cause.

      There is a difference between monitoring a suspect and monitoring everyone. When the government is looking over everyone's shoulders, day and night, you no longer have what I would call a 'free society.'

      Cheers

      --
      ~Dalcius
      Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
    2. Re:This rock keeps tigers away by Dalcius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're way of the mark.

      "Oklahoma city in 1995."

      Oklahoma city was not caused by foreign terrorists -- that was a local nutcase. Refer to my post, I specifically said 'foreign'. Swing and a miss.

      ---
      "But that wasn't the last terrorist attack on this country before 9/11. Our African embassies were attacked, US troop barracks in Saudi Arabia were attacked, the USS Cole was attacked"

      These are attacks off of American soil. What good is a database on American citizens going to do in helping to stop these attacks? Strike 2.

      ---
      "and there was an attack that was stopped on New Years Eve 2000. This is not a problem that we can just ignore."

      Now you're bringing up unsuccessful attacks. My whole point is that either they're not trying hard enough, or we're catching them -- which seems to be the case here.

      The whole problem is that this doesn't happen nearly enough to warrant panic. We've had two local attacks in the last decade. Considering how easy the typical middle eastern attack (suicide bomber) could be carried out here, and the fact that we're not seeing any, should mean something to you. It is said (non-stop) that we're hated and threatened every day, but even the almost-unstoppable attacks aren't happening.

      Strike three. Back to the bench.

      In the end, the problem goes even further in that a database like this is monitoring American citizens who live here. It seems reasonable that potential terrorists can come here with all the training and money they need, spend a couple nights in a hotel, and blow themselves straight to hell. The effects of monitoring an entire population can be shrugged off by terrorists, but not those that live here.

      The negatives in this case absolutely blow away the positives.

      Cheers

      --
      ~Dalcius
      Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
    3. Re:This rock keeps tigers away by NickFusion · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe once you're in Canada, the thought of killing yourself for a cause seems less attractive,

      I suspect it's the universal healthcare, and very tasty bread.

      --
      What were you expecting?
  10. Catch-22! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I love this one from their FAQ: http://www.matrix-at.org/faq.htm

    If you can't access the data, how can you find the source!?

    CAN THE PUBLIC REVIEW THE MATRIX PILOT PROJECT DATA CONCERNING THEMSELVES?

    No. Members of the public cannot access individually identifiable information on themselves or others. Persons wishing to access data pertaining to themselves should communicate directly with the agency or entity that is the source of the data in question. For example, each participating state must provide a means for an individual to review and challenge the accuracy and completeness of his or her criminal history record, as authorized and required by 28 Code of Federal Regulations, Section 20.21(g).

  11. that many states... by bdigit · · Score: 3, Funny

    and the movie still sucked at the end?

  12. Adding injury to insult... by amigoro · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Billions of records: The trouble with MATRIX, said Calbrese, is the volume of data it contains, much of which was purchased unbeknown to states by Seisint Inc. Seisint is the Florida information-technology company that developed the idea for MATRIX and landed a $1.6 million contract with that state's Department of Law Enforcement to pilot it.

    I am guessing Mr. Ashcroft pay this out of his own pcoket. So this tax payer's money.

    Is this going to make you any safer? Doubtful.
    Is this going to make you poorer? Yes, Indirectly.
    Is this going to make Seisinit richer? Sure.
    Is this going to violate your privacy? Most Definitely.

    So you are basically paying Seisinit to take away your privacy. This is a bit like this story here. But that one is a bit more believable.

    --


    Nothing to see here
  13. Re:Proof? by andih8u · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't have to present burden of proof since I'm not the one making outlandish statements in the first place...nor am I making those statements on the front page of a "news" site and alluding to them being true.

    --


    slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
  14. Re:There was already a similar software... by botzi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ....developped and running al the way till the late 80's, but a dude called Gorbachov kinda screwed it all up....(it's still in use only in outdated machines in China.)

    --
    1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
  15. You think thats bad... by Loualbano2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Head over to this site:

    http://www.brbpub.com/pubrecsites.asp

    Free public records for all states and nationwide databases.

    I know for sure that Colorado and Wisconsin have criminal court proceedings online, effectivly putting your police record out there for anyone who knows your name or even parts of your name.

    It did come in handy for me lately, as I found out someone gave my name when they were arrested. Had this resource not be available, I may have never known. Now I have to get it off, and they don't make it easy.

    -ft

    1. Re:You think thats bad... by stratjakt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Imagine public records being accessable to the Public!?!

      First the tinfoilers and whiners were bitching about crazy government secrets. We want access to all the information the government has!!!!! So they pass the Freedom of Information Act. Now everyone has access to all the information the government has. Now the cry is "We want privacy!!".

      Meh, who gives a fuck.. All these idiots and their nazi germany references obviously have never read a history book, or hell, even seen any good WWII movies.

      The government has ALWAYS had my address, phone and social security number (i mean for fuckes sakes, they issue that)

      Cops have always had access to my arrest record via NIBRS, UCR.. Vehicle data through VINES, MILES, and other networks. So now they need "one resource to bind them all". One network to crash and become unusable, and believe me, the others I mentioned go up and down ALL the time.

      The only thing that bothers me about this is they payed all that cash for a redundant system that no doubt wont work all that well.

      The criminal data, for instance, where does it come from? From the court system, or perhaps from NIBRS, and even then only after the agencies send in their monthly submissions. It wont be updated on-the-fly. How do I know this? Because I would have had to write an interface to the system by now if it was any difference.

      Anyhow, who cares, more paranoia and handwaving from michael.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  16. Paranoia day by IamGarageGuy+2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Darpa with a new Internet for more control, more MATRIX states. I am starting to get scared. I am Canadian and the only hope we have is that the US has freedom of expression that we can emulate. Please rise up and fight this demon that justifies itself with the "think of the children argument". The end does not justify the means.

    --
    Stay tuned for new sig...
  17. The MATRIX by Vexware · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Enough with the MATRIX puns, look at the issue seriously. I live in France and had never heard of this project before, but it sure looks scary, or at least, the government not saying everything about it is.

    Can be read in the article: "We don't want our information floating out there when we don't know what's on the database or who has access to it," said Sen. Ron Allen, D-Stansbury Park. It seems the people actually involved in this do not know very much what information will be withheld, let alone the people whose information is withheld. I mean, how can you be sure what you're being told is the truth when you see that the people involved with the project do not know that much about it themselves?

    The representatives say that the MATRIX is just a way of accessing individuals' information faster, but I don't really see how this could help them to predict where and when the next terrorist attack will be -- it will only really help them once the acts are actually done, I should think.

    I'm not stating that the government are surely up to something dodgy here, and after all, perhaps they might not be lying when they say that this will allow them to get hold of currently available information faster. But I just cannot read this without an ounce of doubt that a few privacy breaches might help them to fulfill their task.

    --
    "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect" -- Linus Torval
  18. Good thing Leavitt is gone by John+Harrison · · Score: 4, Informative
    Or we'd never have found out about this. Leavitt recently left to head the EPA, which is odd since I seem to remember that his family has run a business that caused polution and killed a bunch of fish at some point.

    When he left for EPA his Lt. Gov, Walker took over and found out about this MATRIX stuff and told the public. I hope Walker or Matheson gets elected next time around.

  19. Altered Star Wars quote ... by Chiron+Taltos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    TARKIN:
    The regional governors now have direct control over territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this MATRIX.

    --
    CT

  20. Remember the Florida election of 2000 ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Remember the Florida election of 2000 when a private database company scrubbed thousands of eligible voters from the rolls? Well now one of the co-founders of Database Technologies is back in the headlines -- he's working with law enforcement agents in Florida to create what may soon expand into a national surveillance system. We talk with privacy expert Wayne Madsen, investigative reporter Greg Palast and a top intelligence official from the state of Florida.

    When is Joe Six pack going to wake up to the fact that in secret the government has conspired to create a dossier on every citzen in this country and this is who they hired to do it:

    Hank Asher then creates the MATRIX as a state level network version of the TIA office. Essentially continuing the TIA office, but freeing it from congressional oversight and federal whistleblower protections. He admits smuggling millions of dollars worth of cocaine in 1981 and 1982. Coincidentally at the time when the Iran-Contra dealings were in full swing.
    But this is only speculation. Could there be more of a link between illegal dealings between Hank Asher and the republican party? OF COURSE THERE IS!

    In 1992, Asher founded Database Technologies, which later merged with ChoicePoint. In 1999, he founded Seisint Inc. by merging two companies. He is still on Seisint's board of directors, and continues to play an active role in the company.During the 2000 presidential election ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to "scrub" from their list of voters. But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors.

    So there we have it. We went from having a domestic spying agency run by a five time felon to having the same domestic spying program sans congressional oversight and whistle blower protections run by a convicted drug smuggler who has proven that he'll break the law to further the republican agenda.

    http://www.oldamericancentury.org/oh_republicans .h tm

    A Florida law enforcement data-sharing network is about to go national. In the name of counterterrorism, the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security are pouring millions of dollars into the system to expand it to local law enforcement agencies across the nation. It's called Matrix, which stands for Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange. According to the Washington Post, the computer network accesses information that has always been available to investigators but brings it together and enables police to access it with extraordinary speed. Civil liberties and privacy groups say the Matrix system dramatically increases the ability of local police to snoop on individuals.

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/08 /0 7/1427223

    The Florida company that built the database was founded by the man behind ChoicePoint and Database Technologies. The companies administered the contract that stripped thousands of African Americans from the Florida voter roles before the 2000 election.

    Although narrower in scope than John Poindexter's controversial Terrorist Global Information Awareness program, Matrix may serve a similar purpose because it provides unprecedented access to US residents regardless of their criminal background. And states are eager to participate in the new program. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security announced plans to launch a pilot program in state law enforcement data-sharing among Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania and New York.

  21. Avoiding "Troll" in the first place... by goldspider · · Score: 4, Funny
    With this in mind, here are tips to help you avoid being labeled a troll:

    Mouth shut, eyes forward, do what you're told. Don't question the editors.

    Smile for the cameras. They're everywhere and they're watching you.

    Secure all servers, workstations, toasters, etc. with Linux. Windows isn't funny anymore, it's subversive.

    Mod down your fellow posters on the slightest hint they're windows users. You won't get a free subscription, but you help keep Slashdot safe.

    Suspicious links: Don't click 'em, otherwise you might know where they go or what horrors they may contain.

    Twiddle your thumbs when considering posting evidence that Windows is OK to avoid Astroturfer label.

    Vote for the most paranoid, irrational sounding politician, but only if their platform is Open Sourced.

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
  22. "We're bastards to govern" by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Seriously, if you love freedom, you strive to protect it; not from King George, not from Ivan, because you did that already. Don't forget to defend your freedom no matter the threat. If your president and attorney general is the threat, you know what you have to do. You have no excuse.

    I was reading James Mitchner's Iberia up to a couple months ago. It's terribly ironic considering what happened in Spain on the 11th and the political climate in the USA. The book was written, IIRC, in the late 60's and one spaniard told Mitchner, refering to the harsh governance of Franco, that the spaniards need a firm hand because (pardon if quote is not exact) "We're such bastards to govern."

    I consider this phrase frequently when reading about autocratic or strong central governments and people apparently happy to be lead thusly. It's worrying.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  23. Re:Excellent by drooling-dog · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The ones who fear these things are the ones who really have something to hide.

    This is true because, as Authority Figures, our exalted leaders and police officials can be trusted completely to act diligently and with only the public interest in mind. Abuses of power for political or personal reasons are quite impossible, now and evermore. Liberals foolishly fail to understand this simple fact that every Good Dog knows.

    The really cool thing about this is that they'll always be able to round up a good number of plausible suspects for anything that might happen, without all the hassle and expense of identifying the actual perpetrator or - what's worse - having to actually prove guilt. That way Ashcroft et.al. get to look like heroes whether any real justice is done or not. We the People insist on no more than that somebody be apprehended. I'd like to have a job like that. I could say, "Lookee here, Mr. Boss-Man, sir. I wrote you a hunnert lines o' code," and Mr. Boss-Man wouldn't even care if it compiled, much less did anything useful.

    I dunno about you, but I didn't enjoy the Spain incident.

    You're taking a big leap of faith here if you're suggesting that the liberty/safety trade-off is real. Under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, nobody was safe. Don't expect any better here if we hand absolute power to Bush and his minions (or anyone else, for that matter).

  24. Re:Excellent by eclectic4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I fear a state of mind that makes living freely and happily quite cumbersome. I myself will side with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that have died protecting these rights and will accept a certain level of uncertainty pertaining to "terrorists", thank you very much...

    In other words, "Live free or die". For those that may want to reconstruct this sentiment to form something like "you will die OR live free", remember what that quote means. It means, "I would rather die than to NOT live free". And I would agree. You see, I am an American, and I understand what freedom means, and therefore when I see it being eroded for unseemly ends I must, in a working democracy that is, rise up and fight. It is my duty as an American, and as a patriot.

    Vote these bastards out of office... our freedom depends on it...

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    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
  25. good points by Damned · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would also assert that this "if you don't like it, leave" mentality is unAmerican. The proper attitude should be "if you don't like it, vote and change it." Certainly, if there were a mass exodous of citizens from the country, that would change things because there would be not enough workforce to keep the infrastructure running. However, short of that mass exodous, leaving the country will not change anything. Voting, however, has changed much.

    For all those people who love to say "if you don't like it here, leave," I'm considering turning them in to homeland security as terrorists because they are trying to undermine the American way. I'm not going to do it, but it's a fun idea.

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    "I swear I won't break you if you let me take you where the willows never weep" -- Switchblade Symphony
  26. Re:Wrong blame by Loki_1929 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Funny how Dems decry the media as the puppets of multi-national conglomerates owned by frat buddies of high-ranking pubblies, while pubbies decry the liberal hippie media as a bunch of commie-loving bastards.

    What's even funnier is that Oliver Stone, probably one of the most hated (by right-wingers) directors in Hollywood once made a film about how aweful and terrible the media is. It was called, "Natural Born Killers".

    The media doesn't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. The media doesn't care what your position is. The media doesn't care if you're alive, dead, growing mushrooms out of your eyelids, or bleeding to death in the back of a city cab. What they do care about are the ratings you and your story may bring to them. What the media does care about is reporting the things that will keep them employed and successful.

    There's a concept that's lost on most people these days, and it's something that would solve probably 80% of the problems plaguing us at this point: personal responsibility.

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    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  27. Re:Thanks for volunteering by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Upon being asked if you are a terrorist, make relevant portions of this record avaliable."

    I read your post right the first time - you just made up that "legitimate authority" requirement when you saw how flimsy your proposal looks. Who's a "legitimate authority"? That's not for you, a private citizen, to decide. The courts already have lots of ways to extract your life record from you, based on due process. And that "white married christian male" fetish you've got tends to protect Aryan Nation people from scrutiny, too, now doesn't it? I don't know why you've got any complaints at all with the current procedures, given your apparent satisfaction with faith based government.

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    make install -not war