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Broadband Access Leading to Internet Breakdown?
"Spam, adware, worms and viruses are now able to propagate much faster than ever before. Worms are also growing bigger, more advanced, as it's possible to transfer more viral code in less time. It's as if slow dial-up lines acted as a kind of immune system that prevented effective propagation of worms and made DDoS attacks so much less significant.
I'm not only worried about viruses and spam levels. Part of the reason the MPAA and RIAA are taking such an interest in Internet activity is that file sharing has become so much easier with the availability of broadband, and as usual there are murmerings of regulation. Before the broadband revolution, the involvement of the MPAA and RIAA in Internet affairs was small, and their argument was less convincing.
As broadband grows, will regulation become necessary not just to prevent illegal distribution of copyrighted material but more likely to protect Internet users from themselves (we're already seeing ISPs adding spam e-mail filtering to their default services, for example)? Will the Internet fall in popularity as it becomes more and more frustrating and dangerous to use, or will we simply see a massive improvement in coding practices and more secure software?"
Obviously, the time to distribute fixed and patches goes down as well. As does the ability to spread the word about things going around... I see the "always on" thing as more of a security risk than the higher speed, definately.
replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
Come on - the virus and worm anaology is a great one to make lots of ... but they aren't evolving under Darwinian survival of then fitest .... if anything it's more of a creationist sort of thing with rival gods throwing their latest creations into the world to battle it out with nature (ie the rest of us who provide the medium for them to live in) and each other
Email is one of the biggest threat vectors.
When email gets fixed (through authenticated access), the worms and virii will need to find a new way to spread.
This is in addition to the more obivous effect of cutting down the overall flow of spam.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Wasn't IPv6, combined with proper filtering supposed to curb these problems?
Alot of the blame falls on the ISP, they helped turn the Internet into a always-on appliance, now they have to make it robust.
Why does my ISP allow packets off my network that obviously don't originate from it? Is it considered a feature to allow DoS attacks? Why is port 25 open by default? Why isn't NetBIOS closed by default? Where is the IPv6 testbed that my ISP was supposed to have had 3 years ago?
Granted, the average Joe User can be an idiot, but part of the ISP's job is to make the Internet more idiot-proof.
Those who change will survive. E.g. learn to patch your system, avoid insecure behaviour and tighten up your network [e.g. firewall, NAT, etc...].
Those who don't will find their computer experience horrible and "die off" as far as the market is concerned.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
am going to write that lame joke you thought I would.
Instead i would like to say that the Internet is not a medium that should be regulated or cencored.
If the dumb users are getting hurt by its wildness, that same darwinism should do its work.
And if we will see more secure software? Dont hold your breath.
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
You are missing the point.
Look at what is causing all of these outbreaks. Windows/Windows users.
If there were no windows users, none of the current virus epidemics would be a problem.
You think that virus's on another mainstream OS would take over? Doubtful.
Consider the distribution of OS's left (-windows): you get a melange of flavors. Virus writers would have to be far more sophisticated to hijack that number of dissimilar systems with one set of code.
I still find it mystifying that any ISP would allow/encourage users to directly connect completely unprotected machines to a high-speed internet connection.
Sure, Windows could be better in terms of security, but that wouldn't even be a problem if all those insecure services were behind (even a minimal) firewall.
-Mark
(My DSL account came with a "free" firewall-enabled router)
Well, as long as his coding slaves continue to release patches for unexploited exploits, I think those of us that work in the wierd world of windows server support will continue to have jobs. Irregardless of how big the worms get. Broadband is happening, metropolitan wireless networks are becoming a reality, and society almost completely shuts down if the internet stops responding. We're already driving down the road and I don't see too many off-ramps to save us from complete immersion.
A digital divide is probably more likely, as most people on broadband are accessing fuller multi-media experiences while poor souls have to avoid big-combo sites.
I think from the history of technology advancement, things always get bigger, better, faster, strong etc, and they usually don't break themselves down in the process.
Take our transportation for example, when the gravel roads got too crowded, we paved them, then widened them, then built highway motorway causeway, then we moved to train, light-rail, bullettrain.
At first we only tried to travel a short distance if you had to do it by foot, when we have cars, we want to travel further and eventually it is too far for cars, and we move to flights etc etc.
The cycle just keeps going.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
The problem is the transformation of most nodes of the Internet from peers to clients. That's what's going on with broadband; they lure you to the service with speed and reliability then after you're in they let you know you can't run any services and they're putting a mandatory (and poorly-run) spam filter on your incoming mail.
You're no longer part of the network. You're only a consumer and spectator. Spam is bad but RBLs like SPEWS and the admins that force them on their users can be worse. There used to be a time when you could hook into the Internet and go pretty much anywhere you wanted to go; today everybody wants to lock you down and force you to pay for things you once enjoyed for nothing or move to a different server because of some political battle over spam. When people like John Gilmore get screwed for running a mailserver, or a website like Something Awful has its business operations hampered, I can see the writing on the wall.
We need to get back to the days of having Internet access being a utility, much like electricity or water, where one could hook in and use it any way one will. The looming threat is control, lockdown, and homogenization that promises to render this medium as stale as commercial radio.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I just drove up and playing on the radio in my car was an NPR commentary on "spyware" and the people trying to get legislation against it, well, whatever happened to personal responsibility? It isn't broadband that's the problem nor is it virus creators or spyware schleps it's the end user and the enormous ignorance of said user.
The Inet and your computer are not as simple as TV but that appears to be what the common user thinks it should be.
Until you address the actual problem (the user) the only thing we will get from legislation and laws is bigger, more intrusive government.
I would rather see people forced to get a "computer license" than create any more laws around the Inet and computer because we may just lose the last sanctuary of free speech.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The best defense against viruses is a healthy immune system, and an organism gains a healthy immune system through exposure to germs and viruses.
The current "epidemic" of viruses serves only to strengthen the immune systems various groups are developing to regulate the wider ecosystem - the net.
There will always be change, and one of the drivers of change is chaos.
"If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments." Earl Wilson
I think the proliferation of broadband has helped the internet become a more valuable tool for the average 2.5-kids-having-explorer-driving-all-American-fami ly, which has caused it to be a greater part of all our lives. As such, it is now on the radar for the type of people who are threatened by anything beyond their control.
The more we become dependent on the internet, the more interest there will be in regulating it. The level of freedom, possibility, and power that the internet affords to the average person is simply unprecedented. Freedom of the press belongs to those who own a press. With the advent of the internet, the average soccer-mom now has a press that can publish to the entire world for pennies.
Attempts to regulate and lock-down the net are inevitable. It is the nature of those who seek power for themselves to deny and control the power afforded to others.
The possibility of always-on connections spewing a constant stream of malware and sludge is just an excuse. The proliferation of broadband is dangerous because it put the issue on the map and a very high level of power in the hands of the people.
The Dalai Llama
Citizen of a nation where freedom of speech, bought with the blood of heroes, is used to spread pr0n and reality TV shows.
My sig could be your sig!
"No, but the proliferation of crappy Microsoft software will. In fact it has already."
Only at slashdot would something like this get modded as insightful. A random statement against Microsoft that is untrue and backed up by no facts or information. The majority of Windows users use Windows as there choice, they don't want to use a Mac, and are not interested in Linux. Furthermore, if you feel that you can write better software go do it and you will make a lot of money. This poster is just another angry Slashdot reader that is looking for something to insult MS about. I don't use Microsoft, I use Linux, but some of these anti-MS posts are ridiculous. Just another user mad at MS who does not have the skill or the know how to make anything better.
Often on talk radio I hear them discussing 'controversial' issues like how the internet is bad because of all the "porn sites popping up out of nowhere" and how it - the internet - needs to be heavily regulated. FFS. The problem is not the road; the problem is that shitty car that you're driving!
Irregardless is not a word.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's easy to look down on uninformed people who want to learn how to use the Internet, and complain that they are the ones ruining it for all of us. You could instead take the opportunity to teach these newbies how to protect themselves online. Why did you sell him a PC with no firewall or antivirus? There are free versions of each available, so I see it as partly your responsibility for selling a machine that was so wide open to attack. As to Internet usage being a priviledge rather than a right, I couldn't disagree more. It is this sort of elitist rhetoric that gives all of us geeks a bad name. The Internet is for all of us, not just the few that you or anyone else determines is worthy of it.
I push routers to everyone I can. We don't give them away for free, but we do price them competitively so that we can be their one-stop shop.
We don't support them though. It's the mindset that we're not a free service to take advantage of; we're here to make money. If you have a problem that is addressable, we'll take care of it. What we're not here to do is teach you how to use your computer for free.
Want tutorials? Sure, we'll come in and show you how to use your machine all day long.
$75/hour onsite, $65/hr in-shop.
That's what people also don't get. Your ignorance isn't my problem. What *is* my problem is when your ignorance causes my network problems. Then I flip the switch, and your connection drops.
People have to get burned once or twice before they realize the flame is hot.
Can you ping me now? Gooood! | Manhappenin.Net - Things to do
>>As I see it, it's that the users are using
>>Windows, not that they are coming in high speed.
Ahh..... bullshit.
Most of the worms and trojans and crap that are going around lately are all user spawned. They haven't crawled in through a remote exploit. They've been emailed to/downloaded by some genius who will execute any damn thing. I swear, these people would probably pick up a used syringe off the ground and jab it into their own arm to see what would happen.
Do you think it would be any different if the world was all running Linux? Or Solaris? Or MacOS. Please - stupid people will be stupid no matter what OS you put in front of them. It isn't going to change anytime soon.
>>I'm getting hammered by spam and worms and
>>EVERYTIME I nmap back to the sender (okay
>>0.001% of senders, randomly chosen as I get
>>pissed off), it's a windows box.
Geee --- and what percentage of computers out there are windows boxes? What a shocking correlation.
The problem with this is that so many warnings will show up that users will ignore them anyway and get infected. My Linux email client always warns me before opening up attachments and I just click OK. Since there are not Linux email viruses out now, not a big problem. However, if there was one, the popup box would not help me since I instinctively click through it. This is not even considering an entire class of people (I like to call them Darls) that will intentionally try to open dangerous attachments. It really doesn't take a large number of Darls to screw up the fun for everybody.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
I believe it's already been proven that it doesn't work.
...will we simply see a massive improvement in coding practices and more secure software?
This seems to be the only real workable and fair solution.
What?
Look at all the big worms we've had so far this year. They haven't been exploits of security holes, they've all been worms that people receive in their e-mail and then double click on.
Sure with broadband their double clicking takes action faster, but I don't really think that's the problem. The problem is that there are so many more people online now than there was two years ago, and a large chunk of them do not have the knowledge to deal with viruses in their email. Double click now, worry later.
People do NOT pay attention to what they are opening, I do IT for a small business, and we haven't had any machines infected yet. All of the viruses are caught at the mail server and replaced with a text attachment stating "THERE WAS A VIRUS ATTACHED BUT IT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE VIRUS SCANNER.TXT" and the same people day after day will forward me the message or call me on the phone and ask if the message is a virus.
Yeah, I know. Everyone has their own fix for the problem, but I really think these steps would take care of most of it.
1. Free firewall software from an ISP for all Windows boxes. I really don't think ZoneLabs would charge too much for an ISP to distribute the free version of ZoneAlarm. Ditto that for AdAware or Spybot S&D.
2. Free virus-scanning of all email. Don't scan for spam and forward through all virus-stripped email just in case it contains important information. I know, most viruses are ONLY viruses, but you never know what may come later.
3. Have ISPs monitor port 25. If traffic is seen, test it for an open relay. This could be part of the contract the customer would sign. If it's an open relay, block it and tell the customer to clean up the machine if they want it open.
4. Once a new major virus such as MSBlast hits, monitor for it's traffic and block appropriately or take them offline until it's fixed. Of course the virtual network with cleaning tools is a good idea, also.
If this doesn't happen (and I don't expect it to) people with computers HAVE to learn that running a computer hooked up to the Internet is a responsibility. If they can't learn how to manage it properly, they should hire someone to do it. You have to maintain your car and people don't complain too much about it. If they do, people may feel sorry for them, but that's as much slack as they get. Don't fix it? Don't drive.
But why is the rum gone?
Please, more powerful tools, in the hands of people who know how to use them, lead to greater productivity, not pandemonium. Did the evolution of muzzle-loader muskets into M-16's spark a global surge in violence? D'oh, bad example...okay, the growth of axes into chainsaws helped mankind...deforest our planet at an astonishing rate. There must be a good example here somewhere. Single-prop airplanes into 737's...lead to air and noise pollution. Well, you see where I'm going with this. More powerful tech is only bad if someone uses it in a bad way...which someone always does.
"In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
...And every little old lady that comes in and purchases a DSL circuit for email makes me cringe.
... ).
My retired neighbors are all getting DSL, so they can videophone their children, organise community web pages and brush up on their card games. So there are practical reasons why they want DSL.
But it completely amazes me that home computers come configured with so many open TCP/IP ports. Rather than having the various services disabled as default, the recommended solution is to require even more software (firewalls, virus scanners, adfilters,
Communes work, communist countries don't. Private restrooms are cleaner than public ones, even the private restrooms of the people who mess up the public ones are cleaner. The honor system works in small communities and villages, but big cities overflow with crime regardless of penalties.
Whenever you open something to the public you ruin it. More specifically a couple people out of 100 ruin it. The internet magnifies this by allowing the assholes to script themselves, like a mirror image spell in Baldur's Gate.
Can you say "Clipper chip"?
Unfortunately, governments (and especially ours) aren't exactly known for learning their lesson the first time around. This is likely a battle we'll have to fight again, and soon.
-----Chaz
ISPs that can't be bothered to filter out the viruses are the primary cause of all this damage.
Today, almost all viruses are weapons to attack home PCs, installing spambots. If the ISPs had even been marginally responsible as these epidemics started, rather than fostering the spread of ever-more-dangerous virii, today's problems would be several orders of magnitude less than they are.
That has nothing to do with broadband per se. It has to do with trying to make a buck by externalizing all costs ... changing the Internet from a place where
organizations were responsible, to one where irresponsibility
became the norm.
There are lots of real-world examples of people being held responsible for their actions. You can't just go screwing people to give them AIDS, for example. Or firing guns into crowds. And there are plenty of places where littering gives reasonable fines (hundreds of dollars).
I agree with your point that it's not high broadband. Most worms are small enough to only take 8 seconds are less to send. Even being always on is hardly anything, since most dial-up users stay on for hours at a time. I don't think that the morris worm really woke up people as much as you say it did. Neither has Windows worms.
The major difference is until recently, there weren't that many machines online relatively and in the interim *nix in all its forms (though not really Linux, specifically) had the chance to fix most bugs. *BSD have too because they got to hear the same problems. Because Linux includes *BSD tools and GNU tools (based in idea off of Unix tools), it's at about the same level of security checks as *nixes.
Now, that that's covered, you should realize that spam receiving isn't something that only Windows users suffer. And most spam relays spoof their address.
Windows machines are ideal candidates more because their admin is less likely to properly admin (aka, security patch) things which are inately on. More of the core system hasn't been tested, while on *nix security flaws tend to be in auxillary programs (apache has become more core and hasn't had the same level of testing as say finger...and the Linux kernel is also relatively new) where less testing has occurred.
Overall, this means more Windows systems (by percentage, not by populace) are infected and that coupled with populace and broadband means more spam, not more worms. After all, you can get/send 1,000 spam messages a day, but worms tend to be incompatible with each other meaning stable systems tend to only stay infected with two or three worms. More broadband just makes you a better spam relay, which means more clogging of the internet. I don't think it'll cause any more of a collapse than P2P has. At the same time, I wonder if at some point ISPs will start trying to regulate e-mail more to save costs from all the junk being sent through them. The most ironic part to me is not only how little people seem to care about their machines, but that there's been no citizen outcry trying to sue for violating of their machines.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
Isn't that what this is all about? The noobs don't know how to swim, but they are hell bent on jumping into the deep end.
/. article asking questions for Mike Godwin about legal issues on the web. Let's face it, and check me here, but stupid is still free as best I know. Sadly, it is the best some can afford.
I have moderated some large message boards, by way of an analogy. They always start off with a small group of people that get comfortable with the tone of voice, the technology involved, and they then set the trend for that one site. If the tone is right (i.e., inviting) tons of people start showing up. If you build it, they will come and all that. You'd think that would be a good thing, but it invariably leads to becoming "a victim of your own success".
You get people that have no idea what have gone on before, but show up and start demanding to be heard. Major soap box time. And God help 'em if they don't get taken seriously, or get criticized because they are reinventing the wheel or any of a number of other things.
This dovetails nicely with the
Is there a crackdown on surfing habits in the future? Maybe. On the whole, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing since most issues would be related to security type items (antivirus requirements, firewalling, OS patches, etc) as has been noted. Would things like this impact the "old timers"? Probably not, and the noobs wouldn't even know the difference anyway.
Remember, the question wasn't about freedom of speech, copyright issues, IP, etc., but the propagation of crap.
Broadband connection, analog connection, it doesn't matter. The abuses are the same (read "deranged indifference" as abuses). It's like the Austin Powers movie where the guy gets run over by a steam roller. The end result is the same, it just takes a lot longer than getting hit by a Porsche. The outcome is inevitable, in my mind. It is just a matter of how quickly we get there.
I hate to tell you this, but there are more than one person who think that's a cup holder. I talked to three during just 6 months as a tech support.
Albuquerque PC
You made an unqualified statement bashing Microsoft. You didn't provide reasoning, facts or even theories. Why are you so suprised that a short, stupid blanket statement was modded down?
Your statement was pure flamebait.
And Microsoft, while their security practices are abysmal, aren't the only ones to blame.
Yeah. Yeah I do. Because those OSs don't have (1) a dirty syringe attractor and (2) a dialog box that pops up and says "Would you like to jam this into your arm?".
The underlying windows platform is flawed. There are WEEKLY buffer overflows and it's clear that aside from the VAST amount of unsecure old code in it, that new code is rife with holes too.
How many times was outlook fixed to stop running code in preview mode (hint, it's >1).
In bending over backwards to make it easy for users to run things on windows, they leave themselves open. Anyone recall when the "good times virus" that promised a worm from opening an attachment was ridiculous because no program would treat data as executable code!? I miss that now.
Re: nmapping back?
When I scan 200 machines and ALL of them are running windows and ALL of them are sending me mydoom, that's not just bad luck of the draw.
I was blocking 140 mydoom.a messages a minute the day AFTER it started.
Most of the worms and trojans and crap that are going around lately are all user spawned
By "lately" you just mean that 12 or so since new years. I guess when you have so many, it's hard to recall back to last summer and the previous 30 security holes.
When a client groused about the cost of an antivirus program for scanning mail at their college, I pointed out that the WHOLE cost should be borne by the Windows support group. The 10-20% of the school taht wasn't using windows had no (zero, none, nil, nada) need for filtering out viruses that autoexecute in their environment.
At another (very very large wall st) client, I was delighted to see security and a manager show up and FIRE someone for using outlook. 3 warnings about it and AGAIN, he brought a virus in. They'd figured the cost of each incident and banned it. Bravo!
So YES, driving a line of cars through town filled with explosives is bad, even if you tell them not so smoke.
Letting a former addict go hang out with crackheads and spend lots of time with them is BAD.
Letting ignorant Windows users have machiens that can be reached for the net is BAD. That windows machine is just jonesing for a virus fix.
"I'm not only worried about viruses and spam levels. Part of the reason the MPAA and RIAA are taking such an interest in Internet activity is that file sharing has become so much easier with the availability of broadband, and as usual there are murmerings of regulation. Before the broadband revolution, the involvement of the MPAA and RIAA in Internet affairs was small, and their argument was less convincing. "
If you're using the internet to violate copyright laws, that is not an exercise in freedom, but instead an exercise infringing on someone elses rights. The fact that you weren't caught before doesn't mean the internet is becoming less free. It means there is less anarchy on the internet.
Vote for Pedro
Let's take a look at your assumptions.
There is no such thing. Dialup just happens to be cheaper if you don't use the Net heavily, and to be universally available. There ain't anything standard about it.
Nor is broadband what people really need. Rid them of the actual dialing time delays, and they will live happily with 128Kbps or even 64Kbps. This would be somewhat cheaper, would make these users less interesting to be targetted by spammers, and would help webdesigner go slow with flash and fancy graphics.
So what we need is competition in the last mile Net connections, so that this bandwidth madness is checked.
Now, perhaps MS users should be required to have firewalls by default, and to give permission for ISPs to routinely check them for virii, spyware and the such? Perhaps partition all ISPs in MS Windows and the sane world, the MS Windows world being firewalled at the ISP so that MS Windows users can only do so much harm to their fellow sufferers?
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Turning off connections and refusing to turn them on until the problem is fixed. If ISPs started doing this, people would start patching, geting anti-virus software and so on. Your average person doesn't care if they get infected since it doesn't affect them in ways they notice. Not having Internet, they'll notice and care about. What's more, they'll probably have to pay to have it fixed, either by taking it to a shop or buying software. This gives them even more incentive to prevent future occurances.
The underlying windows platform is flawed. There are WEEKLY buffer overflows and it's clear that aside from the VAST amount of unsecure old code in it, that new code is rife with holes too.
How many buffer overflows has Linux and the programs that typically run on it had in the past 6 months? Hint: more than Windows. Does it matter? Not really.
Outlook and Internet Explorer both display strong warnings before allowing a user to download an executable. The media has run reports on virus outbreaks and generally give tips on how to avoid it. Their system administrators tell them not to open attachments they aren't expecting. Microsoft even has a 3-step method to securing a Windows PC on the Windows update site.
Yet they still do it. Despite the warnings the IE and Outlook give, despite the warnings that their system administrators give, and despite the warnings that the media give, users will STILL open attachments containing viruses, again, and again, and again.
You can patch a buffer overflow. You can't patch a stupid user.
I don't see how the two are closely related. IMO, more broadband will increase freedom because it will give more people more access to larger amounts of information. Also, an "always on" connection will encourage more people to host their own websites and share even more information. As the threat from viruses increases, those who don't take the time to learn about and protect themselves from the risks will be removed from the pool of people participating. I think people will quickly learn to buy virus software and click the "yes, I want to install that update" button. The internet is too great a resource for people not to invest the time and effort to maintain their link to it.
Today's broadband ISPs are a bit more sophisticated than the shabby dialup operations of yesteryear. Now they offer as standard spam & viruses filtering, NAT, real routers as opposed to modems, and more.
Also more and more mere users have come to understand the importance of patching, disabling services, not trusting attachments etc and even Microsoft is supposed to be shipping some kind of firewall software as standard now.
Things are not as one-sided as it looks.
ZoneAlarm is more software to be exploited...with a hardware firewall/router, there is no way for an outside system to access a system directly without some sort of user intervention (forwarding a port or putting an IP in a DMZ)...
The advent of widespread broadband access, per se, is hardly cause for a breakdown in basic Internet functionality. Talk about inferring cause and effect. What is responsible is a breakdown in the caliber of the network user. Prior to the Internet being opened for public access, you had primarily large-scale governmental, corporate or institutional users, any of whom are (presumably) a harder target than the average Dell owner with a Surfboard. By the logic of this post, it would make perfect sense to restrict everyone to 110 bps Baudot communications in order to make it harder for worms to proliferate. That's ridiculous. What needs to be done is to secure the network, by both the end user and the connectivity provider. Blaming high transfer rates is, well, like trying to cure diarrhea by tinkering with the plumbing in your bathroom. If you try to treat a problem symptomatically, rather than analytically, you are unlikely to find a cure.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You can't patch a stupid user, but you can set the attachment -x so that the .scr.jpg doesn't get run.
Also, may I remind you that a standard desktop Linux install has 0 open ports, so good luck with your buffer overflow.
Ask 8 slackers a question, get 10 awnsers (a citation, but I can't remember from who)
If your provider filters even '.txt' files, just pick something like '.let-me-pass', and I bet that would get through. 'Course, this works because you *know* you have to change the extension and such. I've had to resort to this to get around my work's filters.
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
I would say the "privilege" vs "right" argument is not framed correctly. Instead it is more of a "private" vs "public" rights argument. I wouldn't care about people's machines getting infected, etc if they were not continuously acting as spam-bots, zombies, etc. Once the user who owns the machine allows it to start generating "internet pollution" like this, I think a little bit of personal responsibility is in order.
Thus, instead of looking at it as "LARTing clewless n00bs", we should look at it as "policing internet pollution". I imagine most people would support fines and/or restrictions for people who drive damaged and dangerous cars on the highway, putting everyone else at risk. IMHO, this situation is analagous to restricting internet access for those people who ignore repeated warnings about securing their online machines.
The internet is a free scale network. If you look up some of the information behind such a network you would realize a few KNOWNS
Believe it or not a free scall network and the Internet:
Can not be destroyed
Can not be owned
Individual or single entitites on it only have minimel impact (HUBS having the most influeance, and I don't me devices)
No one can even fully understand the complete workings of the internet.
These are almost FACTs, I know some may despute them but with out going to deep into the concepts I can asure you that Broadband or a Nuclear War will not destry the internet (Though it might lower its usage a little)
-- Disclaimer: I can't really back up anything I post on
Looks like a M$ fanboy losing his temper or being paid to look like they are. Tut, tut.
Don't flatter yourself.
With free software all hardware is controled by the kernel running as root.
How is this different to Winodows, Dumbass? Go on, name ONE piece of hardware on a standard Windows desktop that is driven from userspace. There aren't any, because in your fantastical world of free software wonderfulness and Microsoft villiany, you're forgetting the basic fucking principles of computer science i.e., what a 'kernel' is and does.Tell me, do you actually know ANYTHING about the way Windows is 'designed', or anything about good design at all for that matter? From the rest of your piss-poor arguments you could probably just guess you don't, but in this case I don't even need to do that, and this is why:
I've just written a mail client that opens attachments automatcally, runs, activex and javascripts without even prompting the user, and displays new messages as they are downloaded without asking either. I published it under the GPL, therefore it is free software. LOL not so safe now, are you? But wait! You're now going to tell me how you wouldn't run my mail reader in a million years because you only run quality software. Of course, I COULD actually use the same argument, or I could just state the fact that by default, microsoft outlook runs in restricted sites zone and will not allow the user to parse any harmful user attachments without specific re-configuration first. OH NO! FACTS! QUICK! DON'T LISTEN! MICROSOFT ARE EVIL AND FUCK BABIES! LALALALALALA!
My OS does not have files that I can't see or erase, so clean up is much easier to.
I am actually interested in what you meant with this little nugget of grammatic gold. In the rest of your post, you argue the merits of an operating system that the user can't fuck up even if they tried. Surely files you can't erase or even see would be nothing but beneficial to this argument? Either way, you're wrong, because contrary to your paranoid believe there are no such files in Windows.Then again, you have no idea what software I'm running
Yes! Just out of interest, boys and girls, this is one of the many reasons why free software will never hit the bigtime on desktop machines.
Worse for Billy boy, the number of holes in free software is low due to PEER REVIEW.
Just because its open source doesn't mean anyone is going to read it. This is why people uncover kernel exploits in 2.6 and trace the code waaay back to early in the 2.4 tree where it was introduced MONTHS ago. Why weren't they spotted as soon as the code was released? If that particular developer got of of bed on the wrong side that morning would the flaw have been spotted at all? This, of course, makes you wonder. Then dismiss your argument as being retarded trash.
A Linux, Solaris, OSX or BSD user has to try very hard to make their computer something that can be broken
I can do it in two keystrokes: su. Where are all your wonderful fucking permissions now?
Windoze gets broken automatically and regularly
That's odd, I've been running windows 2000 since it came out and I haven't had to flatten and re-install once, nor has my system beem compromised once. Why is this? Because the problem is STILL between the keyboard and the chair.