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Muscle Cars And Smokin' Chips
YetAnotherGeekGuy writes "IEEE Computer has an article this month, "The Zen of Overclocking" by Bob Colwell. In it the author compares overclockers to hot rodders (which, in my personal experience, are two sets with a significant intersection). More importantly he talks about the phenomenon, the culture, the attitude, and the natural tension between them and the industry in the quest for the right balance between performance and reliability. Thought-provoking, and some good one-liners. Enjoy!"
"In it the author compares overclockers to hot rodders"
Too bad the ladies don't think of it the same way...
That's all I could think of when I read this story. (It turns out it's for speeding up the internet, not cars!)
My dad and I were talking with some friends, and I realized a huge "generation" gap.
They were telling a story about the struggle to drop an engine into a classic muscle car without a lot of room.
My dad and I countered with a story about the problems with seating some RAM in a motherboard without a lot of room.
Computer Geeks - the gearheads of the future.
They both appeal to people who like to have unnecessary power, simply for the sake of having the additional power, and being able to say "My XYZ can outperform your XYZ", even though efficiency or safety drop dramatically. They're both pretty useless, but they can both be enjoyed as hobbies.
He's just jealous because his box crashes on Irrelevant Benchmark Number 6 Epsilon. Mine gets pi. If he put all his chips in a circle and insulated them with rare unguents from the East it'd work.
Except that most kids today think that souping up a PC means a window and lights.
I'll stick with my stock (i.e. quiet) box anyday.
--
Braking from 150mph into an increasing radius turn off the back straight on the other hand.. Women like men who are confident, and there's not much room for indecision on a racetrack.
:-)
(Often) ladies don't find too much that's macho about a XP chip running at 3000mhz (duh), and there's not much risk other than the possible damage to your bank account. So I think this article is just tripe to make those with low self esteem feel better about themselves.
"Overclockers say, "Instead of buying a new PC, just overclock the old one."
I don't know any overclockers that say that. I run a mildly overclocked system because I can with no impact on reliability. I've run extremely overclocked and watercooled systems in the past. It was not done to save money on a new PC - a combination of the very top of the line being insanely priced, and "because I can". This article feels like fluff and has a questionable feel to it. I'm suprised it's from the IEEE.
On the other hand, in my own experience fast cars are a lot more fun than fast women.
..don't panic
Me too... I got more speed out of my 486 DX-2/66 by down-clocking it. The motherboard supported running at 50mhz (with no clock multiplier, this led to faster memory access).
I think he made good comparisons and was right on. I wish more people would catch on to things like he mentioned about the locking of chips. The groups that think some company is conspiring against them are as he says insignificant. Probably at best 1% of people overclock, and even then it just means better chance Intel and AMD will get to sell this person more chips since the person fried theirs. This same concept can be expanded to most any conspiracy their people come up with, especialy the ones thought up by many people here.
Then again, such groups of people never seam to catch on that they don't matter.
This isn't a troll, just a point, so many people come up with these ideas about companies doing this or that to block linux, or saying linux has so much influence, but the reality is, it is such a small share that companies just don't care. MS may worry about linux in server space, but could care less on desktops. For any move that may seam like something they or any other company does to counter linux can better be explained by non-linux theories. Really it's an over thinking of linux's place that hurts it. It you accept it being small and having no effect you have more the right mindset to change that. If you think it's everywhere and a big force you are blind to it's flaws and less likely to do things to improve it's place. This goes past linux and applies to so many things. People who think everyone overclocks their chips are blind to the fact everyone does not, and thus don't get the fact that the Chip makers don't care about what they do.
First off, since the author worked for Intel over a long period of time, I wouldn't call him the most unbiased of observers... And his claim that he's just an engineer seems rather odd as well. The computer engineers I know are probably more interested in making things run as fast as possible.
Secondly, there isn't this automatic corellation between overclocking and instability. Sure, it's less stable if one takes it too far, but the way modern processors are made, most lower-speed processors are capable of running with their higher-speed brethren. Sure, if one buys the latest and greatest, it probably isn't going to go very far. But when the P4 and 2.4 GHz is identical to the one running at 1.8 GHz but for the multiplier, it's another story.
I overclock my processor and video card to avoid having to buy a more expensive component. I don't go too far, don't overvolt the processor too much, etc. So I don't have any instability issues. Yet I still run my components about 25% faster.
I've got a 6 liter v8 honda civic and a duron overclocked with nitrogen to over 5ghz, so I must have a REALLY small penis. ;-)
In my youth I was a hot rodder. Then race car mechanic and crew chief(on outlaw sprint cars). Now I'm a programmer who tweeks the components to get the best performance at home. Looks are ok but performance is the deal.
Winning isn't everything, but second is the first loser.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Other then the fact that they take something they own and modify it, there are no similarities.
As somone who grew up around muscle cars,in the 70's, and then went on to overclock almost every generation of intel processor, I feel I can speak on this issue.
People who hot rod risk there lives. Doing 180 down any street can be fatal, even in the best conditions. Ever see a car lose control at 150 MPH? I have, it aint pretty.
Ever see what happens when your computer CPU stops working? not a whole lot.
Here's something you never hear:
"Mike was overclocking is 3G to 3.75 when suddenly he blew a tire. He'll be out of the hospital in a few month."
I understand pushing the computer to it's limits, and then some. But It is not as exhilarating as driving so fast the line is solid and one flase move and your going to experience serious hurting. Thats a whole different level of commiment.
On one hand, I'm glad I don't drive like that any more, OTOH somedays I miss it.
My point is, the people arn't as similiar as people on the board seem to think.
Besides, as a kid I always felt I was getting away with something nasty when I would talk about hooker headers.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Modding can be a rite of passage and learning experience before old parts are finally chucked into the bin and/or recycled.
While personally I have done very little modding byeond simple putting them together in the first place to any of the machines I use every day (added a couple of fans to one, things of that nature), I remember one time the place where a friend of mine works was throwing out all of their old machines. They stripped out all of the hard drives, and told the employees that if any of them wanted any of the machines they could take them. Well after a few days when they were about to throw them away my friend grabbed everything they had left.
Most of the boxes were old 133mz pentiums, there were a couple of 486s and a few newer machines (P3s if I remember correctly). Since they were not allowed to resell the machines or give them to anyone else, and there was no way my friend was going to use all these machines, we decided to have a little fun with them.
We did some really odd things to those machines, just trying to see what the limits were of still having a bootable machine.
The thing is, although I've always been more of a software person than a hardware person (I know enough to build a machine, replace parts, troubleshoot parts, and basically do anything a common person would need done), but I learned a lot about how the hardware works just from hanging out with my friends (most of them were electronics engineers and knew a lot more about the hardware than I did) and seeing what sort of crazy things they came up with.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
I used to play in a band with a guitar player who was borderline obsessive about his equipment, particularly his guitar. He was constantly swapping out his pickups, trying new necks, bridges, nuts, and machine heads. It got to the point where he was replacing the capacitors and potentiometers in his guitar with precision components.
Don't get me wrong, he was an excellent player. None of this detracted from his practicing or performing. And this, I think, is the key: as good a player as he was, I believe that he felt that he was just a hardware upgrade away from excellence, at least in his own self-assessment.
For the most part, I think that most overclockers, hot rodders, or builders of Frankenguitars are hobbyists, for which these things are an end unto themselves. But there are a few people who do this believe that by building these things their skills, driving or gaming or shredding, will be unleashed, unencumbered by the limitations of their gear.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
It's the only way to tweak a stock engine.
ECM mods are one way to increase performance, and are important for anyone serious about it, but they're hardly the only way. Simple intake and exhaust mods can yield non-trivial gains, when done properly. And tweaking the power adder on turbo- and supercharged engines can yield significant gains, even with the stock ECM.
When I first overclocked my Packard Bell 486sx-20 to 33Mhz, I had no idea you could do it. I was just messing around with it. I didn't have a name for it.
I used to go to the local computer shows and tell all the vendors "Hey, you can run that 25Mhz chip at 33 if you just set the jumper." Nobody believed me.
Years later, when the internet started going and all the "pc review" web sites appeared, it became all the rage and they called it overclocking. Woo.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
as should be obvious by my username, im a muscle car guy at heart. however, youve gotta step into at least this decade. check out this 8 second awd dsm. in my opinion, 8 seconds on 2.0L and 37(!)psi is a hot rod in the true sense of the word. do you not realize that in the 50's, all the model-a guys and the 30's coupe guys hated the new-fangled chevy and ford v8s in those new hightech 50's machines. "kids these days," they said.
im sure you and i can both agree that most import guys are terrible representatives of our sport, but to say that 4 cylinders cannot be hot rods is ignorant. is it defined by the number of cylinders, where they are made, the technology, what?
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
Just make that 4000lb monster car turn. F1 cars are only 3.5L for a reason. In most parts of the world, racing involves doing something besides driving in a straight line. A 2.2L engine can deliver 400 hp for a long time; the problem is when you get to rediculous levels of HP it isn't good for a whole lot outside of a drag strip. You can't put the power down.
upon second read of your post, you admit that a boosted 2.2 vtec cant compete with a 460. it's also going to cost a hell of a lot more to build the honda motor. 4cylinders can be plenty fast, but it takes HUGE amounts of money to do it, especially with hondas.
4 cylinders means you only need 4 forged connecting rods and pistons and half the honing time. In fact, it works out cheaper to build a very fast 4cyl engine - you don't even need as big a turbo. I am just finishing a project to get 300hp from a 1600cc honda engine. The total expenditure was around $3000cdn, and that was most ly because I wanted to get a brand new turbo not a rebuilt one. That INCLUDED buying another engine to work on. There are millions of those engines and they are cheap.
You can't work on a V8 engine in your kitchen. A dismantled little 4 banger is very easy to work with. Two guys can easily pick it up. One guy can pick it up dismantled.
Do you know what insurance is on a 1600cc engine compared to a 8000cc engine?
Very few people take it this far, but there are a lot of very fast Hondas out there. It once was more expensive, but now it's very cheap to build a 12 second Honda. Cheaper if you don't care about it blowing up.
Lots and lots of people do this.
Turbo D16 has lots of pointers on how to get started on cheap turbo setups.
..don't panic
there is no such thing as a 4 cylinder hot rodders.
I disagree. Getting over 300 HP out of a 2L engine is impressive. That's like having a 440/454/460 (choose your poison) that puts out over 1100 HP when you think about it in HP/liters.
I respect anyone with a "ricer" that actually can go fast. It's the "all show, no go" cars that piss me off. The people who think that a set of subwoofers, some neon, and a fart can exhaust makes their car cool.
The "ricers" even have their own factory hot rods. Where the car guys have vehicles like the 'Stang Cobra, and the truck guys have the Lightning and SRT-10 Ram, the ricers have the Lancer Evo and the Subaru WRX STi. Both of these are fast as hell straight from the factory, and both are all wheel drive, so unlike the V8 RWD Detroit hot rods, these can turn under throttle and are easy to drive in the winter
To me, hot rod status is decided on the drag strip, not by engine size/type.
P.S. To clarify, I would prefer a nice V8 (or V10 a.k.a. Viper/Ram SRT10) RWD over a 4cyl any day.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
The model T engine had a 2.8 liter engine and put out a whopping... 22hp.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
As the owner of a 300whp turbo miata that can give most v8 cars a run for their money in a straight line, I take exception to this remark.
The cars are different, the engines are different and even the power adders are different but the goals, the mentality and the outlook on life is the same. We hate the same posers with their slow, loud, FWD shitboxes and we respect a good engineering accomplishment when we see it.
Yeah, you can't imitate the sound of a V8 with a 4 banger, that is true. But the quickly building tea-kettle sound of a turbo spinning up is great and the feeling that goes with it is like no other. In the space of half a second the car goes from feeling sort of sluggish to feeling like it has a cam with lobes the size of mount everest. The exhaust note completely disappears and is replaced with a loud whoosh. The rear tucks in and the car explodes forward with genuinely frightening speed.
Give it a try before you knock it, and dont let the riceboys get you down with their stupidity. 120 decible 4 bangers making 90 hp arent hotrods and they arent fast.
It's funny... My friends and I are into both cars and computers. I'm thinking of one friend in particular who has the fastest car in the crowd... he is also the only one among us who likes to overclock his stuff. It all started a few years ago when he had a motherboard that allowed him to set the speed with some jumper settings. He said, "Hmmm... This CPU is only supposed to go up to X mhz" (I think it was, like, 233 or something) "but let's put it on 300 and see what happens." Apparently, it worked fine, so he's been pushing his computers ever since.
Funny thing about reliability vs. performance, too: Among our group of friends, he has had the most hard drive disasters, and has also had the most transmissions break in his car (physically break--as in a loud BAM!!! from power-shifting too much). Both are mechanical systems... I wonder if there is any correlation.
On the other hand, there are programmers who don't know a screwdriver from an impact wrench, and there is the story I recently read about how new cars' computer codes frustrate mechanics. Most of these guys are purely mechanically inclined. I think there is a serious need for people in each of these two industries to familiarize themselves with the other.
Ok, that's enough rambling.All of the arguments were basically the party line: don't overclock. It's not good for your system, it's not effective, just buy a new processor (and whatever else is needed to make the "new" computer run). yeah, right.
I think he does raise some valid if incomplete points. The first is that MOST computer users do not need overclocking. What's the use of a 3 gigahertz CPU to handle word processing, where the input is usually much less than 50 words (perhaps 250 character) per minute? But he misses the point that to overclockers, it's a hobby or challenge can no more be stopped than the use of (let's say) drugs or sexual favors for money or caffeine.
Overclocking is usually done for a purpose. Gamers, for example, want performance, better performance than the latest out of the box equipment. So, they go to the internet and find the information (and that community of overclockers mentioned) to successfully push their CPU up a notch or two without killing reliability or introducing other glitches. With all the sites for mod-ing and overclocking out there, there's also notoriety.
Older computers should not be overclocked to avoid upgrading. That would be comparable to taking an engine with 150,000 miles on it, adding a turbocharger, and dropping it into a race car. It won't last long. There are enough uses for older computers (routers, mail servers, Linux workstations, etc.) that justify not upgrading.
I really look at overclocking like I still look at souping up cars - which incidentally, is as big if not bigger than ever. If you've got the money, honey, and you've got the time, it's your car. Or computer.
I think the big difference between him and me is that he's an engineer, I'm a computer user.
If you're really hip you don't overclock your CPU - you undervolt it, so that you can make your rig super silent by skipping the fan on your CPU cooler.
The difference is that overclocking is a bloody waste of time!
A car that was fast in the 80s is a car that is fast in the 90s is a car that is fast in 00s -- a computer that was fast two years ago is slow and pathetic today.
Heh. Excellent...
I tend to drive not just in a straight line, but also around curves. I'll take a well balanced and properly set up Miata over a muscle car or FWD 'ricer' any day. Say, from Fort Ross to Jenner on Highway 1...
I was cruising through that stretch, top down and enjoying the ride, when a Honda with a huge wing bolted on puled onto the road behind me. I thought it looked a bit silly, but otherwise wasn't paying much attention.
I rolled onto a short straight section after the first set of curves, and this guy apparently decided he was racing me. I figured I'd pull over after the set of S curves I had just entered, and let Speed Racer pass and do his thing. But no, this guy decides he wants to pace me through the curves. Mind you, I wasn't pushing my car hard. This was quite literally a Sunday drive.
First swing left, and suddenly he's swapping ends and sliding the wrong way down the road. The road runs along a cliff face at this point, with rock on the left, and a 200 foot drop to the Pacific on the right. He managed to come to a stop, turn around, and make it to a turnout, where presumably he changed his shorts.
Big wings on a FWD car, Type-R stickers and coffee can sized exhaust tips don't improve handling all that much. Muscle cars may be OK on a straight line, but the real world has curves.
The big difference is that when you're racing a car it's usually an adrenaline rush. I have yet to have a huge adrenaline rush from squeezing an extra 100 MHz out of my 1.8 GHz athlon xp.
I absolutely LOVE to race cars. However, it's irresponsible and dangerous on the street. I can't afford the tickets/jail time and the track is too far away. Soooo... I rarely race. Every once in a while if I'm out on an open road I'll do a 0-100 just to keep the memory fresh or take the corners at speeds well above the posted speed limits. But I'm married with responsibilities and not an endless pile of cash so modding PCs is safer and much much much cheaper.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin