An anonymous user writes, "Apple announced it has begun shipping its Xserve G5, the most powerful Xserve yet, to customers. Single processor is $2,999.00, dual processor is $3,999.00."
For producing such an overpriced POS, Steve Jobs.... you're FIRED!!!!!!!
I guess this is hoping to be modded funny! But the real Donald Trump should be way smarter. This is a great value for the buck. I only wish I had any excuse at all to need one. Seriously drool-worthy!
In the very near future. When? No one can say for sure.
When is there to be a G5 iMac?
Not for a while
Why does Apple still make the eMac?
Because not all schools want LCD monitors for their kids to poke pins into
When are the horribly outdated (aside from the largest size) LCD monitors going to be getting refreshed?
Not untill the resolution becomes too small.
Will Apple ever make a multi-button mouse?
Not likely
-- T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Price Comparison
by
vasqzr
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· Score: 5, Informative
Apple $3,999
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 512K L2 cache/processor 1GHz system bus/processor 1GB DDR400 ECC SDRAM 80GB Serial ATA drive Mac OS X Server (Unlimited Client) Dual Gigabit Ethernet CD ROM drive
Dell $4,127
PE1750 1U Dual 2.4GHz Xeon 72GB HD 1GB RAM Dual Gigabit Ethernet CDROM NO OS
$5,626 if you get the dual 3.2 GHz chips (1MB Cache, 2MB is more) that Apple compares the XServe to on their website.
Re:Price Comparison
by
ERJ
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· Score: 2, Informative
Sun $3,945.00
2 AMD Opteron Model 242 Processor
2-GB Memory
1 36-GB 10000 RPM Ultra320 SCSI Disk Drive
2 10/100/1000 Ethernet Ports
Sun Solaris 9
Re:Price Comparison
by
RalphBNumbers
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· Score: 4, Informative
Actually that price you quote for the Sun doesn't include the operation system.
It's also worth noting that the Opteron 242 is the 1.6Ghz version.
Sun doesn't sell the Opteron 246 (the 2ghz chips that apple compares it's XServe to on it's site), but either the 244 (1.8Ghz) or 248 (2.2Ghz) would probably make a more fair comparison.
The base prices for Sun's dual 244 and 248 1U servers are $4,445.00 and $6,995.00 respectively.
-- "The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
Re:Price Comparison
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
Try to remember that the quote you love so dearly came from a work of fiction.
Sheesh.
Re:Price Comparison
by
ERJ
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· Score: 3, Informative
Hate to nitpick but...
From the order page:
The Solaris Operating System (x86 Platform Edition) is pre-installed on the server in 32-bit and 64-bit support will be available soon. Includes software, license and documentation.
So then why aren't their Desktop PCs and Laptops reasonably priced too? You could argue that you pay for what you get - so then are you saying that the Dell server is better than the Apple?
--
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
Re:Price Comparison
by
b-baggins
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· Score: 2, Informative
Xserve 64-bit support is available now.
-- You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Re:Price Comparison
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
Excuse me?
I just went to dell.com and configured a 1750 just as you said: the price came to $1,948.
Am I missing something?
Go here and add a second CPU, one GB of RAM and the 72GB, 10K rpm hard disk.
that's $1499+ 2nd Processor Intel Xeon, 2.4GHz w/512K Cache, 533Mhz Front Side Bus [add $299 or $8/month1] + 1GB DDR SDRAM (2X512MB) at a 512 price (mail-in rebate not valid) Dell Recommended + 73GB,10K RPM, 1in (Ultra 320) SCSI Hot Plug Hard Drive [add $150 or $4/month1]
$1948 dude, not $4127.
Re:Price Comparison
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The 1.6GHz Opteron trounces the 2GHz 970FX in the Xserve. It has *3* 6.4GB/sec HT links and 1MB of L2 cache, not to mention a CPU core that eats the POWER4 for breakfast (as well it should: it's about three years more modern...)
Don't believe me? http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000 - you can find Opteron GCC results for SPECcpu2000. Trounces, dude. We're talking up to 50%+ better performance.
Still, if you want an xserve, feel free to blow your money...
Re:Price Comparison
by
Blakey+Rat
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· Score: 2, Interesting
$4127 from Dell? The problem with this figure is that you picked the wrong service contract. Look at what Apple offers with their AppleCare program, then look at what you got with Dell.
That's the price Dell gives you with their uber service, but Apple's service doesn't match up with it. You're looking at $2714 with a service contract equilivant to Apple's *and* 2.8 ghz Xeons instead of 2.4s.
Re:Price Comparison
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
I hate to burst your bubble, but the Opteron only uses 2 of those 3 6.4GB/sec HT links in the dual-proc configs we're talking about.
The G5 has 2 and uses them both, and they're clocked at 1Ghz (8GB/sec each) as opposed to 800Mhz for the 6.4GB/sec links on the Opteron you mentioned.
And I think we all know gcc isn't as efficient compiling for the PPC970 as we'd like. If you take a look as a benchmark that can be well optimized for both processors (like linpack for instance), you'll find the 970's performance very respectable. (about equivalent to a similarly clocked Opteron in most areas, superior in some (floating point math with MADDs, vector processing, etc), and inferior in others (memory latency, etc).
It's not even close to the one sided contest you assert.
Re:Price Comparison
by
cosmo7
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Man, if that ain't the truth.... I loved the flip flop on SPEC when the G5s showed pretty good numbers there, and there was a particular high-speed PIV that was particularly bad with an unoptimized compiler, when all the other ones still smoked the G5.
Their benchmarketing tells me that Steve Jobs may be vying for political office some day soon.
void main() is not and have newer been legal c or c++ code.
But just for the record, please try this c program.
#define LARGE 1000000000
int main() { int i; for(i=0;i!=6;i++) { // No ram will be allocated because we // don't write to it. int *Mem=(int *)malloc(LARGE); unsigned long long Val=(unsigned long long)Mem; // ll is used to print long long. printf("Pointer value is %ll or %d\n",(unsigned long long)Val,Mem); } }
Minus the 15% Dell discount coupons that are ever-present. Just because Apple always charges MSRP doesn't make it valid in a price comparison. That brings the Dell price down to $3,500. And it comes with features that the XServe doesn't, like redundant power supplies. I mean, come on Apple - these are standard (or at least available) on pretty much every single rack machine these days...
-- You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
So that's $2,714 minus the 15% off coupons you get bombarded with for being a Dell customer (or signing up on their website for that matter) - that would bring it to $2,306. Or just over half the price of the Apple offering.
AppleCare is frankly crap in the corporate world.
-- You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
void main() is not and have newer been legal c or c++ code.
Sure it is. If main() doesn't return anything, the runtime returns 0 to the calling process. There's nothing wrong with returning void from main, as long as it's understood that such a program can't return a failure state to its parent process.
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Iw works with many (but not all) compilers, but it isn't valid ANSI c code. The main function is defined by the spec to return an int.
Apparently the difference is that he configured the system through the medium & large businesses link (starting at $3474) while you used the small businesses configuration (starting at $1499).
I think the difference lies in the warranty and/or service contract.
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You also neglected to mention, along with the other responses, that the Dell's hard drives are SCSI.
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You need to read your compiler documentation more closely, you dimwit. If main() is declared to return void, the compiler automatically inserts the equivalent of a "return 0" into the exit point of your program.
But that does not change the fact that it is NOT a valid c program.
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Um... actually, it DOES change that "fact." If the program compiles correctly and results in the expected behavior, consistently, on all platforms, then it's valid!
The spec says that main() must return an integer. It does, always. Even if you, the programmer, have decided that you want the main() prototype to call for a void return. See, specifying a void return in a program that you know will never return a nonzero value prevents human errors: the compiler will throw up a warning if you return in a function that is prototyped to return void.
In other words, smartass, void main() most definitely IS valid C code. Not only that, it's valid C++ and Objective-C, too!
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You didn't even READ what you replied to, did you?
His WHOLE POINT was that the Xserve's price IS GREATER THAN the Dell's server due to service plan mismatches. If you want to do price comparisons, ALL comparisons must be EQUAL. Either include the Premium AppleCare plan or downgrade Dell's 3year GOLD service.
Re:Price Comparison
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
$4127 from Dell? The problem with this figure is that you picked the wrong service contract. Look at what Apple offers with their AppleCare program, then look at what you got with Dell.
Okay, then let's *really* make it fair:
The XServe comes with an unlimited-client version of OS X Server, so let's tack on the cost of an unlimited-client Windows server license to the Dell price. Last time my company got that for one of our clients, the price was around $20K, IIRC.
So far i only know of one compant that sells xserves (and only g4's, at the moment) with redundant PSU - Grande Vitesse Systems (or GVS). they also sell this hot 5 x 17" LCD panel display
-- Don't worry - its just stigmata. Pass me a napkin and don't you dare tell my mother.
I configured the same system. Are you adding a bunch of stuff that you aren't listing there? Im not exactly sure how you got that price. Here's the price I came up with using the components that you listed for the Dell:
Dual Xeon 2.4ghz No Operating System 1GB Ram 73GB Ultra 320 SCSI HDD Dual Intel Gigabit Ethernet CDROM
$2075
Or if you would like Dual 3.2ghz Xeon procs, the price is $3574. I'm not a Dell fanboy, but Im really interested in how you arrived at that price.
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Fair enough. Surely Apple's warranty is equivalent to Dell's small business warranty, if that? I mean, I've never heard of Apple sending out on-site techs to replace parts on a 9x5x4 basis...
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
No. What you mean is that Stroupstrup wishes it weren't valid. That doesn't change the fact that IT IS. It compiles correctly with all compilers on all platforms and produces consistent results that comply with the OS runtime specification.
I guess I'd rather be correct even if it means I'm "risking being considered ignorant." God, what an arrogant shitball.
Re:Price Comparison
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
It compiles correctly with all compilers on all platforms
Having fun throwing those absolutes around? sheesh!
There are some compilers that don't correct for invalid main return types, and it will produce a warning on many compilers that do.
bash-2.05$ gcc -c main.c main.c: In function `main': main.c:1: warning: return type of `main' is not `int'
So then why aren't their Desktop PCs and Laptops reasonably priced too?
You mean Apple? If so, I think you'll find that the iBooks are very reasonably priced. The last time I did a comparison I found the iBooks actually beat x86 laptops in my price/feature comparison. I'll agree that Apple desktops are overpriced though. (Yes, even the "super-duper-dirt-cheap" eMacs the Mac lovers love to point to).
Disclaimer: I do not now, nor have I ever, owned anything made by Apple.
-- Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Re:how long to ship
by
tblease
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· Score: 3, Interesting
It's always amusing to hear the multi-button mouse button argument being brought up. It's even more amusing that people can't fathom buying a two- (or more) button mouse for their computer.
The mouse that's connected to the Mac I'm using right now to submit this comment has two buttons -- there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too.
--
huzzah
Re:how long to ship
by
BigBir3d
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I use a Dell usb optical scroll wheel mouse with my iBook from time to time. It's funny actually, because I can't use the same mouse with my boss' IBM ThinkPad!
Although, I would think that Apple would sell a mouse branded by them with multiple buttons, seeming as how they sell software requiring multiple buttons. Seems strange to exclude a simple hardware market, just because of idealogy (whether right or wrong).
Apple mouse
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
Re:Apple mouse
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Interesting
That's not a patent for a mouse. It's disguised as a mouse. The control device described in that patent is the one used on the iPod Mini, Apple just didn't want to tip their hand when patenting it.
Re:how long to ship
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
It was annnounced in January. Pixar sure cares, since they're ordering a huge number.
In a while now. They don't update all of their products constantly, you know.
Once the G6 is out, Apple might switch their home line to the G5. Apple has very little reason to update the iMac to the G5 at this time, since the G5 is a workstation processor and nothing other than scientific apps or serious computer graphics actually need that much power at this time.
Because people still buy them. The eMac is all-in-one, just like the iMac. However, the eMac is cheaper because it has a CRT instead of an LCD. Therefore, people buy them.
They aren't outdated. Have you ever used one? They're the most beautiful LCDs money can buy. The only update that Apple would do on them is to use new panels, and that's not something they would announce.
No, they won't. Multiple buttons have no business on a home machine. Contextual menus are by definition inconsistant. Apple is all about the consistancy, as evidenced by the depth of their UI guidelines and the strictness with which they are enforced. The fact that Windows practically requires multiple buttons to operate is a serious design flaw.
No, idiots want to troll.
Re:how long to ship
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
When is there to be a G5 iMac?
When are the horribly outdated (aside from the largest size) LCD monitors going to be getting refreshed?
Um, next month?
Re:how long to ship
by
tblease
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I think it's the KISS principle in action -- trying to make it simpler for those computer users that have a tough enough time doing simple tasks as is. Whenever I have to help out my parents or others that are not familiar with computers it really is easier for them to remember to just click rather than 'left-button click' or 'right-button click'.
Lame? Yeah, but makes sense I guess for trying to attract those users that are scared of computers.
What software does Apple ship that requires 2 buttons?
-- T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:how long to ship
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Shake requires 3.
Of course, Shake wasn't originally designed by Apple. Had it been, you can be sure that additional buttons would have been supported, even handy, but not required.
Re:how long to ship
by
WaterTroll
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· Score: 4, Interesting
They make the eMac as a low end machine for home users. Duh. Not everyone needs or wants a $1500 computer.
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters). They are heavy and not very mobile like the imacs. Everything is in one case, including the CRT. A CRT is used because it's much cheaper, but also because it is very durable compared to an LCD. Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves. Visit an apple store and you'll notice (atleast the two near my house) that there is a little kids area with emacs. emacs also look like a redesigned and update version of the older imac models, which you see in tons of schools. i see more powermacs in universities, and more imacs in high schools and even more in elementary schools.
The computer is not a mystical device. I find it truly amazing that you can sit an intelligent person in front of a computer, and the become absolute morons with no memory! Dumbing down computers to the lowest possible common denominator has made the user experience that much worse (clippy???).
Re:how long to ship
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Get everything to the G5, then use the 64bit OS and such. It's called moving forward.
It's always amusing to hear the "you can buy a two-button one" argument being brought up.
Do I like being obliged to buy a PC with Windows preinstalled? NO!
Do I like being sold a one-button mouse when I'm going to use a two-button one? NO!
Enough said!
--
---
All my submissions to Slashdot rejected... and proud of it!
there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too
Yes, there is: because I prefer my five-button mouse! Which also has a scroll wheel! Muahahaha. I am the evil anti-Mac Mac user! I have more buttons than you can stick a shake at!
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
by
capmilk
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· Score: 4, Insightful
No flame bait intended:
Looking at Apple's history, I would definately not buy the first model of a new Apple product. Especially the portables have had some pretty severe teething problems for a while.
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
by
jwthompson2
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· Score: 1
Have any references? I'd be interested to research that more.
-- Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.
-Martin Luther
Re:how long to ship
by
pudge
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· Score: 2, Informative
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters).
They were, but are no longer.
Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves.
False. Any customer can buy an eMac with SuperDrive.
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
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pudge
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· Score: 1, Funny
Your subject line gives you your answer: no.
Price per gigaflop
by
Somegeek
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· Score: 5, Informative
I looked at the results and figured, ok the Apple is faster, but the Opteron will be cheaper and faster on a per dollar basis. That's not what I found:
G5 server as configured for Apple's linpac test: dual g5, 1gb ram, dual 250gb sata $4799.00 at apple.com achieved 9 gigaflops in Apple's test $533/gigaflop (its worth noting that in Apple's tech paper (link below), they quote $333/gigaflop, but that in a footnote, #5, they base that on a MSRP of 2799 and 9 gigaflop performance. Now where they are getting that price from I don't know, and the math doesn't work out either, so I'm going with my numbers.)
IBM e325 server as configured by Apple for linpac test: dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual scsi 15k 36gb (user installed linux os) $5191.00 at ibm.com achieved 5.9 in Apple's test $878/gigaflop
generic server with similar config as Apple used for IBM server for linpac test: dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual sata 7200 80gb preinstalled linux os $3126.00 at asaservers.com assuming 5.9 in Apple's test $529/gigaflop. (sure you could probably build something cheaper yourself, but this comes with a warranty and support.)
So, for this benchmark, Apple looks like the best performer, and at a good price/performance standpoint too. And to get similar performance, you would need more Opteron blades, which means more space, heat, juice, etc.
Yes, this still leaves a lot up in the air; it would be nice to see these tests run by an independent party, etc, using an AMD hardware configuration that was optimized for the test as the Apple surely was, etc. etc.
Apple's notes on test configurations and performance results for the xserve G5: http://a192.g.akamai.net/7/192/51/0c5b0d0ef0f 03b/w ww.apple.com/server/pdfs/L301323A_XserveG5_TO.pdf
-- And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
Re:Price per gigaflop
by
FueledByRamen
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· Score: 3, Interesting
The $333 per gigaflop figure is for the XServe cluster node - which, if you configure it to 1 GB of RAM, is actually $3149 at checkout, not $2799, making that figure slightly higher - but still much less than the Opterons!
I'd buy an XServe Cluster node if I had the money...
-- Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
Re:how long to ship
by
cbirdsong64
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· Score: 4, Insightful
See, Clippy was a pain in the ass to get rid of, and he was everywhere. Apple hasn't dumbed down the user interface, they've just left the advanced features there for the taking, assuming you know you want them. If you want to use UNIX in OS X, go to the terminal, but my mom never has to know about it. If you want to use a mouse with five buttons, have at it, but my mom's perfectly happy with the one that came in the box.
fixed link to Apple's test notes
by
Somegeek
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· Score: 1
I don't know who paid for all of your tuitions, but chez nous, $ is pretty dear. The emac and ibook line are an incredible buy for the student who doesn't necesarily have 2600$ to throw around.
emac= well priced.
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
by
kannibal_klown
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· Score: 3, Informative
It's not like the first versions of PC / laptops explode or anything. But they have some design flaws that range from annoying to just plain wrong. But, it's not like it's Apple's fault. Many companies have the same problem (even car companies).
First generation 12" PowerBooks ran a lot hotter than they do now, and warped (some still do, but not as often).
First generation 15" Aluminum PowerBooks had white markes (splotches) on the screen.
I think the early Powerbook Ti's suffered from the keyboard pressing into the screen way too hard, leaving indentations.
The list goes on. But they're no worse off than 1st generation products from other companies. My first generation Inspiron 3700 sucked. So much so, that Dell killed the line shortly later to release a "fixed" 3800.
Since the 1st rev Powerbook G5 will be their first attempt at a mobile G5, I'd hold off until maybe revision 3 just to be safe. I jsut bought a 15" Powerbook Aluminum, and love it (it's now my main computer). It'll keep me more than happy until the G5 comes out and matures.
Re:how long to ship
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Actually, no, that's not "enough said."
Let's talk about supply chain management for a second. I know that's a big, scary term, but bear with me.
Apple manufactures computers. They build a few standard configurations and put them in boxes, and put those boxes in warehouses. (Not for long, though. Apple has long been lauded as having one of the shortest inventories in the industry.)
When you go buy a computer, you shouldn't have to specify what kind of mouse you want. That's just unacceptable. To the consumer, it's nickel-and-diming. To the company, it's a waste of shelf space and packaging material, not to mention time and effort to track all those separate bills of materials and whatnot.
So the alternative is to make a multi-button mouse a build-to-order option. But the problem is, of the (let's estimate) 10% of Mac buyers who want a different kind of mouse, not all of them want the same kind of mouse. Some want wired, some want wireless. Some want two buttons, some three, some five. Some wheels, some not. So Apple would be faced with stocking a separate build-to-order item that would only satisfy about 2% of the customers anyway, or just throwing the mouse in the box at build time and letting the customer replace it with a third-party item if he chooses.
In other words, if Apple did what you ask--ask, hell, what you practically demand--it would make Macs more expensive. Either that, or Apple would have to eat the additional cost of manufacturing and spend less on R&D.
Sorry, but I have to ask this. Is everyone in this thread aware that CTRL-click on a one button mouse produces the equivalent of a right button mouse click in os x? There are a lot of little key presses like this that aren't very well documented, like command ~ scrolls through application windows, command-tab scrolls through applications (like in windows). you can move the little menu icons (airport, time display) by holding command down and dragging them with the mouse... lots more.
Thanks for a very corteous and well-thought reply to what could (superficially) be considered a flame-bait.
Nevertheless, my point wasn't arguing on why Apple only delivers one-button mice. I just tried to point out how the claim "I want a multi-button mouse!" is always answered by "you always can buy one!" (that's the 'amusing' thing). There may be some bussiness points supporting Apple's stubborness on one-button mice (as there are in Windows-preinstalled PCs), but that doesn't discount the frustation of users wanting another option and not getting it. And remember, Apple's the only source for Apple machines!!
--
---
All my submissions to Slashdot rejected... and proud of it!
Yeah, but I think (or at least hope) that's assumed to be common-knowledge among Mac users... well the CTRL-Click bit anyhow.
--
huzzah
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
by
CrackedButter
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· Score: 1
I had a 15" 1.25Ghz PowerBook and I thought it sucked for the price I paid, i paid developer price as well which took 1/5 of the price off. This WAS a mint condition PB with no flaws like everybody else was getting.
I sold the PB after 2 months and got a 1Ghz eMac which is far better for the performance price ratio. Now I await the G5 12" to be released... after everybody else has bought one so they discover the flaws first.:)
XServe vs... Powermac?
by
X_Caffeine
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· Score: 2, Interesting
OK, not trying to troll, just a serious question: why on earth would anyone pay $1000 more for the dual-processor XServe over a dual-2ghz G5? I don't get this pricing discepancy at all.
The XServe has hot-swappable bays, but doesn't the Powermac have hot-swappable drives? (I know it's part of the SATA spec) Is the thousand bucks just for OS X Server? What if you already have a copy and want to transfer the license?
On a loosely related note, it's too bad they aren't still manufacturing G4 XServes... there could be a huge market for Cobalt-style, low cost OS X servers for small offices.
-- // I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
Re:XServe vs... Powermac?
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
OK, not trying to troll, just a serious question: why on earth would anyone pay $1000 more for the dual-processor XServe over a dual-2ghz G5?
For the same reason laptops cost more than desktops: It's expensive to stuff the same amount of computer into a much smaller space.
The XServe has hot-swappable bays, but doesn't the Powermac have hot-swappable drives?
No, where the hell did you hear that?
Re:XServe vs... Powermac?
by
FredFnord
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· Score: 1
>...there could be a huge market for Cobalt-style, low cost OS X servers [to heat] small offices.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
-fred
-- Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose:
You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
I made the same comparison and I too came to the conclusion that the cost delta is the price of OS X server. An unlimited license of Server (which is what X Serve's ship with) is ~$1000.
The scary thing about that comparison isn't the hot swap drive issue if that diference exists, it is the lack of Superdrive and low end video card that come with the X Server - that makes it even harder to buy one unless you really need the small footprint and pre-installed Server OS.
BTB - Anyone out there know what sort of decibel level a dual processor X Serve box makes?
>aren't very well documented 1) Select "Mac Help" from the "Help" menu 2) search for "Shortcuts"
I can think of a few...
by
Llywelyn
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· Score: 4, Informative
0) It is a 1U Rackmount. Significantly smaller. 1) *Dual* onboard gigabit ethernet on an independent bus. 2) 3 SATA drive channels w/ *hardware* RAID 0, 1, 3, and 5. This is opposed to the Tower's support for Software RAID 0 and 1. 3) ECC RAM. 4) Lower heat and possibly power. This is (strictly) a guess based on them using a newer revision of the processor. 5) A DB-9 serial port. 6) Blinkenlights:-) 7) Yes, OS X Server.
If they shipped computers with multi-button mouse, the complaints would just focus on how the Apple multi-button mouse doesn't have 3 buttons, or a scroll wheel, or that the scroll wheel feels icky, or that it should be optical, or that optical mice are too expensive and they should have shipped an optomechanical one and lowered the price by $10, or that it should be wireless or white or aluminum or clear or blue or rounder or more square... or better yet, they should ship it with NO mice so that novice customers would take it home and not be able to use it. Awesome.
My heart bleeds for the intense agony that Apple customers feel when being forced to buy exactly the mouse they wanted at commodity prices from whomever they want (those monopolistic BASTARDS!), because Apple didn't include that particular product in the box.
The comparison with Windows is pretty funny - something that is very difficult and time consuming to install, and precludes manufacturers from shipping other operating systems, and probably costs about 10x what a mouse does, which you just plug in and It Just Works.
Next I suppose we'll hear about what a travesty it is that Apple includes white phone cords with their computers, when every right-thinking person knows that only gray phone cords are acceptable. Thus Apple computers must not be bought because they obviously only work with white phone cords!
It's always amusing to hear the multi-button mouse button argument being brought up.
Some people (like me) just get annoyed that we have to pay top dollar for an expensive bit of hardware *and then* shell out even more to get a decent mouse (and keyboard, IMHO). Not to mention your it's then not going to fit in with the aesthetics of the rest of the package. I don't think Apple should switch to a multi button mouse across the board, however, I do think they should offer an option of an Apple designed "Pro" multibutton mouse.
Discount at Apple Store Europe online
by
xiaodidi
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· Score: 2, Informative
I got an offer at the Apple Store Europe online for a 4-node Xserve cluster. I was given a substantial rebate of about 15 % on the grounds that I will use the hardware for scientific research -- albeit for a commercial company. Extra memory is also on sale at the moment. Check it out before you buy a Dell or something.
Re:how long to ship
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The solution is even more simple than that.
Ship only a two-button mouse.
Don't want to use the second button? Don't! But it's there in case you ever need it.
Re:how long to ship
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Haha, that's hilarious! It's typical of the mac userbase too.
"Yeah, got the PRO strawberry model! It's got that second mouse button that only us leet users can figure out. Bask in my leetness."
Re:how long to ship
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
And I guess the fact that the keyboard requires more than one key indicates a flaw as well, right?
The reality distortion field is in full effect here people.. Take a good look.
Slashdot Mirror
because it's the newest, and uses the newest, fastest processor. That's kind of intrinsic, isn't it?
Emacs: for people who just never know when to
When will people stop trolling Slashdot? They make the eMac as a low end machine for home users. Duh. Not everyone needs or wants a $1500 computer.
For producing such an overpriced POS, Steve Jobs.... you're FIRED!!!!!!!
I guess this is hoping to be modded funny! But the real Donald Trump should be way smarter. This is a great value for the buck. I only wish I had any excuse at all to need one. Seriously drool-worthy!
Also available is a $2,999 DUal 2 GHz cluster node, which can run Xgrid, so you too can feel like Virginia Tech.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Feeding the trolls I know:
When was the G5 xServe announced? Does anyone care now that it is finally shipping?
It was announced in Jan: See here (I think).
And VT cares. As does a my local university.
When is the PowerMac going to be updated?
In the very near future. When? No one can say for sure.
When is there to be a G5 iMac?
Not for a while
Why does Apple still make the eMac?
Because not all schools want LCD monitors for their kids to poke pins into
When are the horribly outdated (aside from the largest size) LCD monitors going to be getting refreshed?
Not untill the resolution becomes too small.
Will Apple ever make a multi-button mouse?
Not likely
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Apple
$3,999
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache/processor
1GHz system bus/processor
1GB DDR400 ECC SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA drive
Mac OS X Server (Unlimited Client)
Dual Gigabit Ethernet
CD ROM drive
Dell
$4,127
PE1750 1U
Dual 2.4GHz Xeon
72GB HD
1GB RAM
Dual Gigabit Ethernet
CDROM
NO OS
$5,626 if you get the dual 3.2 GHz chips (1MB Cache, 2MB is more) that Apple compares the XServe to on their website.
It's always amusing to hear the multi-button mouse button argument being brought up. It's even more amusing that people can't fathom buying a two- (or more) button mouse for their computer. The mouse that's connected to the Mac I'm using right now to submit this comment has two buttons -- there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too.
huzzah
I use a Dell usb optical scroll wheel mouse with my iBook from time to time. It's funny actually, because I can't use the same mouse with my boss' IBM ThinkPad!
Although, I would think that Apple would sell a mouse branded by them with multiple buttons, seeming as how they sell software requiring multiple buttons. Seems strange to exclude a simple hardware market, just because of idealogy (whether right or wrong).
Apple's Mouse patent.
Could this be their future?
It was annnounced in January. Pixar sure cares, since they're ordering a huge number.
In a while now. They don't update all of their products constantly, you know.
Once the G6 is out, Apple might switch their home line to the G5. Apple has very little reason to update the iMac to the G5 at this time, since the G5 is a workstation processor and nothing other than scientific apps or serious computer graphics actually need that much power at this time.
Because people still buy them. The eMac is all-in-one, just like the iMac. However, the eMac is cheaper because it has a CRT instead of an LCD. Therefore, people buy them.
They aren't outdated. Have you ever used one? They're the most beautiful LCDs money can buy. The only update that Apple would do on them is to use new panels, and that's not something they would announce.
No, they won't. Multiple buttons have no business on a home machine. Contextual menus are by definition inconsistant. Apple is all about the consistancy, as evidenced by the depth of their UI guidelines and the strictness with which they are enforced. The fact that Windows practically requires multiple buttons to operate is a serious design flaw.
No, idiots want to troll.
When is there to be a G5 iMac?
When are the horribly outdated (aside from the largest size) LCD monitors going to be getting refreshed?
Um, next month?
Lame? Yeah, but makes sense I guess for trying to attract those users that are scared of computers.
huzzah
What software does Apple ship that requires 2 buttons?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Shake requires 3.
Of course, Shake wasn't originally designed by Apple. Had it been, you can be sure that additional buttons would have been supported, even handy, but not required.
They make the eMac as a low end machine for home users. Duh. Not everyone needs or wants a $1500 computer.
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters). They are heavy and not very mobile like the imacs. Everything is in one case, including the CRT. A CRT is used because it's much cheaper, but also because it is very durable compared to an LCD. Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves. Visit an apple store and you'll notice (atleast the two near my house) that there is a little kids area with emacs. emacs also look like a redesigned and update version of the older imac models, which you see in tons of schools. i see more powermacs in universities, and more imacs in high schools and even more in elementary schools.
The computer is not a mystical device. I find it truly amazing that you can sit an intelligent person in front of a computer, and the become absolute morons with no memory! Dumbing down computers to the lowest possible common denominator has made the user experience that much worse (clippy???).
Get everything to the G5, then use the 64bit OS and such. It's called moving forward.
It's always amusing to hear the "you can buy a two-button one" argument being brought up. Do I like being obliged to buy a PC with Windows preinstalled? NO! Do I like being sold a one-button mouse when I'm going to use a two-button one? NO! Enough said!
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All my submissions to Slashdot rejected... and proud of it!
there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too
Yes, there is: because I prefer my five-button mouse! Which also has a scroll wheel! Muahahaha. I am the evil anti-Mac Mac user! I have more buttons than you can stick a shake at!
No flame bait intended:
Looking at Apple's history, I would definately not buy the first model of a new Apple product. Especially the portables have had some pretty severe teething problems for a while.
Have any references? I'd be interested to research that more.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters).
They were, but are no longer.
Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves.
False. Any customer can buy an eMac with SuperDrive.
Your subject line gives you your answer: no.
I looked at the results and figured, ok the Apple is faster, but the Opteron will be cheaper and faster on a per dollar basis. That's not what I found:
f 03b/w ww.apple.com/server/pdfs/L301323A_XserveG5_TO.pdf
G5 server as configured for Apple's linpac test:
dual g5, 1gb ram, dual 250gb sata
$4799.00 at apple.com
achieved 9 gigaflops in Apple's test
$533/gigaflop
(its worth noting that in Apple's tech paper (link below), they quote $333/gigaflop, but that in a footnote, #5, they base that on a MSRP of 2799 and 9 gigaflop performance. Now where they are getting that price from I don't know, and the math doesn't work out either, so I'm going with my numbers.)
IBM e325 server as configured by Apple for linpac test:
dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual scsi 15k 36gb
(user installed linux os)
$5191.00 at ibm.com
achieved 5.9 in Apple's test
$878/gigaflop
generic server with similar config as Apple used for IBM server for linpac test:
dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual sata 7200 80gb
preinstalled linux os
$3126.00 at asaservers.com
assuming 5.9 in Apple's test
$529/gigaflop.
(sure you could probably build something cheaper yourself, but this comes with a warranty and support.)
So, for this benchmark, Apple looks like the best performer, and at a good price/performance standpoint too. And to get similar performance, you would need more Opteron blades, which means more space, heat, juice, etc.
Yes, this still leaves a lot up in the air; it would be nice to see these tests run by an independent party, etc, using an AMD hardware configuration that was optimized for the test as the Apple surely was, etc. etc.
Apple's notes on test configurations and performance results for the xserve G5:
http://a192.g.akamai.net/7/192/51/0c5b0d0ef0
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
See, Clippy was a pain in the ass to get rid of, and he was everywhere. Apple hasn't dumbed down the user interface, they've just left the advanced features there for the taking, assuming you know you want them. If you want to use UNIX in OS X, go to the terminal, but my mom never has to know about it. If you want to use a mouse with five buttons, have at it, but my mom's perfectly happy with the one that came in the box.
Apple's Xserve G5 Technology Overview
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
I don't know who paid for all of your tuitions, but chez nous, $ is pretty dear. The emac and ibook line are an incredible buy for the student who doesn't necesarily have 2600$ to throw around.
emac= well priced.
It's not like the first versions of PC / laptops explode or anything. But they have some design flaws that range from annoying to just plain wrong. But, it's not like it's Apple's fault. Many companies have the same problem (even car companies).
First generation 12" PowerBooks ran a lot hotter than they do now, and warped (some still do, but not as often).
First generation 15" Aluminum PowerBooks had white markes (splotches) on the screen.
I think the early Powerbook Ti's suffered from the keyboard pressing into the screen way too hard, leaving indentations.
The list goes on. But they're no worse off than 1st generation products from other companies. My first generation Inspiron 3700 sucked. So much so, that Dell killed the line shortly later to release a "fixed" 3800.
Since the 1st rev Powerbook G5 will be their first attempt at a mobile G5, I'd hold off until maybe revision 3 just to be safe. I jsut bought a 15" Powerbook Aluminum, and love it (it's now my main computer). It'll keep me more than happy until the G5 comes out and matures.
Actually, no, that's not "enough said."
Let's talk about supply chain management for a second. I know that's a big, scary term, but bear with me.
Apple manufactures computers. They build a few standard configurations and put them in boxes, and put those boxes in warehouses. (Not for long, though. Apple has long been lauded as having one of the shortest inventories in the industry.)
When you go buy a computer, you shouldn't have to specify what kind of mouse you want. That's just unacceptable. To the consumer, it's nickel-and-diming. To the company, it's a waste of shelf space and packaging material, not to mention time and effort to track all those separate bills of materials and whatnot.
So the alternative is to make a multi-button mouse a build-to-order option. But the problem is, of the (let's estimate) 10% of Mac buyers who want a different kind of mouse, not all of them want the same kind of mouse. Some want wired, some want wireless. Some want two buttons, some three, some five. Some wheels, some not. So Apple would be faced with stocking a separate build-to-order item that would only satisfy about 2% of the customers anyway, or just throwing the mouse in the box at build time and letting the customer replace it with a third-party item if he chooses.
In other words, if Apple did what you ask--ask, hell, what you practically demand--it would make Macs more expensive. Either that, or Apple would have to eat the additional cost of manufacturing and spend less on R&D.
You choose.
my mac mouse has 6 buttons and a scroll wheel
so there d-:
False. Any customer can buy an eMac with SuperDrive.
Whoops. My mistake. Buying for a school allows you to buy a cdrom only model.
$699.00
1GHz PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM drive
Apparently it is identical except of for the cdrom and absence of a 56k modem.
Will Apple ever make a multi-button mouse? - Not likely Or, as would say Dr.Phil, past behavior is a predictor of future behavior. I feel ashamed now.
Sorry, but I have to ask this. Is everyone in this thread aware that CTRL-click on a one button mouse produces the equivalent of a right button mouse click in os x? There are a lot of little key presses like this that aren't very well documented, like command ~ scrolls through application windows, command-tab scrolls through applications (like in windows). you can move the little menu icons (airport, time display) by holding command down and dragging them with the mouse... lots more.
Thanks for a very corteous and well-thought reply to what could (superficially) be considered a flame-bait. Nevertheless, my point wasn't arguing on why Apple only delivers one-button mice. I just tried to point out how the claim "I want a multi-button mouse!" is always answered by "you always can buy one!" (that's the 'amusing' thing). There may be some bussiness points supporting Apple's stubborness on one-button mice (as there are in Windows-preinstalled PCs), but that doesn't discount the frustation of users wanting another option and not getting it. And remember, Apple's the only source for Apple machines!!
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All my submissions to Slashdot rejected... and proud of it!
I don't care HOW many mouse buttons you have - I can always shake a stick at them.
my mac mouse has 6 buttons and a scroll wheel
Huh. My mouse has a replica Concorde dashboard with 2520 switches, 28 levers, a control yoke and a drooping nose canopy for landing visibility.
You know the drill ;-)
-psy
Somehow my includes disapeared. They are
#include
#include
Yeah, but I think (or at least hope) that's assumed to be common-knowledge among Mac users... well the CTRL-Click bit anyhow.
huzzah
I had a 15" 1.25Ghz PowerBook and I thought it sucked for the price I paid, i paid developer price as well which took 1/5 of the price off. This WAS a mint condition PB with no flaws like everybody else was getting. I sold the PB after 2 months and got a 1Ghz eMac which is far better for the performance price ratio. Now I await the G5 12" to be released... after everybody else has bought one so they discover the flaws first. :)
Jonathanjk.com
OK, not trying to troll, just a serious question: why on earth would anyone pay $1000 more for the dual-processor XServe over a dual-2ghz G5? I don't get this pricing discepancy at all.
The XServe has hot-swappable bays, but doesn't the Powermac have hot-swappable drives? (I know it's part of the SATA spec) Is the thousand bucks just for OS X Server? What if you already have a copy and want to transfer the license?
On a loosely related note, it's too bad they aren't still manufacturing G4 XServes... there could be a huge market for Cobalt-style, low cost OS X servers for small offices.
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
>aren't very well documented
1) Select "Mac Help" from the "Help" menu
2) search for "Shortcuts"
0) It is a 1U Rackmount. Significantly smaller. :-)
1) *Dual* onboard gigabit ethernet on an independent bus.
2) 3 SATA drive channels w/ *hardware* RAID 0, 1, 3, and 5. This is opposed to the Tower's support for Software RAID 0 and 1.
3) ECC RAM.
4) Lower heat and possibly power. This is (strictly) a guess based on them using a newer revision of the processor.
5) A DB-9 serial port.
6) Blinkenlights
7) Yes, OS X Server.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
If they shipped computers with multi-button mouse, the complaints would just focus on how the Apple multi-button mouse doesn't have 3 buttons, or a scroll wheel, or that the scroll wheel feels icky, or that it should be optical, or that optical mice are too expensive and they should have shipped an optomechanical one and lowered the price by $10, or that it should be wireless or white or aluminum or clear or blue or rounder or more square... or better yet, they should ship it with NO mice so that novice customers would take it home and not be able to use it. Awesome.
My heart bleeds for the intense agony that Apple customers feel when being forced to buy exactly the mouse they wanted at commodity prices from whomever they want (those monopolistic BASTARDS!), because Apple didn't include that particular product in the box.
The comparison with Windows is pretty funny - something that is very difficult and time consuming to install, and precludes manufacturers from shipping other operating systems, and probably costs about 10x what a mouse does, which you just plug in and It Just Works.
Next I suppose we'll hear about what a travesty it is that Apple includes white phone cords with their computers, when every right-thinking person knows that only gray phone cords are acceptable. Thus Apple computers must not be bought because they obviously only work with white phone cords!
Some people (like me) just get annoyed that we have to pay top dollar for an expensive bit of hardware *and then* shell out even more to get a decent mouse (and keyboard, IMHO). Not to mention your it's then not going to fit in with the aesthetics of the rest of the package. I don't think Apple should switch to a multi button mouse across the board, however, I do think they should offer an option of an Apple designed "Pro" multibutton mouse.
[Not likely]
In fact, they have done away with the button altogether. But the stupid trolls continue to moan about the lack of a multi-button mouse.
Get with with the program, you morons. Isn't it about time you started bitching about the Apple mouse not having a button at all?
Dr. Freud
Technology meets Transportation.
I got an offer at the Apple Store Europe online for a 4-node Xserve cluster. I was given a substantial rebate of about 15 % on the grounds that I will use the hardware for scientific research -- albeit for a commercial company. Extra memory is also on sale at the moment. Check it out before you buy a Dell or something.
The solution is even more simple than that.
Ship only a two-button mouse.
Don't want to use the second button? Don't! But it's there in case you ever need it.
Haha, that's hilarious! It's typical of the mac userbase too.
"Yeah, got the PRO strawberry model! It's got that second mouse button that only us leet users can figure out. Bask in my leetness."
And I guess the fact that the keyboard requires more than one key indicates a flaw as well, right?
The reality distortion field is in full effect here people.. Take a good look.