Slashdot Mirror
Infinium Labs Countersues HardOCP
loftydog writes "Gamespot is reporting that our favorite console manufacturer has thrown down a gauntlet in Florida. Seems they didn't want to play in Texas with HardOCP. Turns out that SCO doesn't have a corner on the lawyer market after all, and we'll see something from Infinium, even if it is an overpaid suit."
I'd love to see the judge say "OK, Infinium.. Let's see your console that HardOCP has been blasting." It may be another SCOish "We'd love to but it's our proprietary product!"
Trolling is a art,
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, litigate."
(in reference to Infinium, not HardOCP, of course...)
"This? I can make a hat, I can make a brooch, I can make a pterodactyl..."
Infinium Labs Vs. HardOCP - Round 2
HardOCP Press Release
While insane judicial stuff HAS been known to go down in Florida it just seems less likely the Infinium people will somehow face the death penalty there. *sigh*
I just read the motion to dismiss and supporting brief relating to the Texas suit. Infinium is not going to have much of a fun time in this suit. Their counsel are incompetent. I've yet to read anything prepared by [H]'s lawyers, but it's got to be better than the inane dribble that Infinium has sent to the Tx District Court. Misspellings, wrong words, never mind the fact that they're plainly disrespectful in some places, and oh, flat out wrong in some, too.
Motion to dismiss:
here
Judge: "ok, show your console"
Infinium: "we can't do that as it would expose our business secrets"
Judge: "so you have no console?"
Infinium: "that IS the secret"
I plan to plan / Dutch course in The Hague
I was really looking forward to getting my hands on a Phantom game console, but now that Infinium labs are focusing on all this litigation, I guess I am going to have to wait some more!
Infinium sues HardOCP
[UPDATE] Phantom console maker makes good on its threats and initiates legal action in a Florida court.
Shacknews is reporting that Infinium Labs has finally made good on its threats to hardware site HardOCP and has initiated legal action. According to the report, the makers of the yet-to-be-launched Phantom PC game console filed suit in a Florida court this week over a corporate profile the hardware site ran last fall.
As of press time, calls to Infinium president Kevin Bachus had not been returned. However, HardOCP owner Kyle Bennett confirmed the company's legal action. "Yes, [but] I have not gotten all of the paper work yet," he told GameSpot. However, what Bennett has seen does not bode well for a short legal battle. "It seems as though Infinium Labs and [CEO] Tim Roberts personally have filed suit against us," he said.
The legal maneuvering started last month when Infinium sent HardOCP a letter saying they would sue the site for defamation if it did not retract the article, which painted a less-than-flattering portrait of several executives. HardOCP promptly refused, then filed a preemptive suit in a Texas court against Infinium.
GameSpot will have more information on this breaking story as it becomes available.
...none of this would have happened if Infinium Labs had actually shipped a working product on time. Mudslinging or "legal relief" won't make them ship it quicker either. As far as I can tell, HardOCP has been more than reasonable with its assertions... more sites should have the guts to expose the true colors of the companies they cover.
However exciting the infinium technology allegedly is, I temper any enthusiasm for that product with the reality that they're entering a market full of big boys who don't like to share their toys. Whoever gave them venture money to go head-to-head with Sony, MS, and Nintendo should have their head examined.
Who cares if the product is interoperable, etc. As long as the big guys can sell their consoles below manufacturing cost via lucrative licensing deals, there is NO way that a small startup can compete. IMHO, the right thing to do in this case is Infinium giving what little cash they have left back to the investors and crawling back under the rock they cam from.
This is going to become all the more ridiculous as the 970-based next gen consoles come out. I just don't see a way to outperform that kind of horsepower...
"I heard Timothy Roberts, CEO of Infinium Labs, can't have an orgasm unless he kills a dog." -Tycho
Penny Arcade want to be sued too. I guess they'll have to try harder.
I have to give credit to HardOCP for not backing down in the face of ridiculous threats. They posted a factual article that painted an unflattering picture, because the fact's ARE unflattering. I know Florida is home to some of the worst judicial decions ever but here's hoping they get this one right.
Their website is gorgeous. Takes forever to load, but the eye-candy is sweet.
I'm not a cool-guy web designer, but they list a "Pentium III" as a site requirement. I can't recall seeing another site that listed a processing requirement. Is that legit?
Also interesting to note that, according to the Phantom.net branch of their site,
The Dalai Llama
constantly amazed at just how far people will go to get press...wait a minute, nobody visits my site, either. If you're reading this sig, expect to be contacted by my legal team.
My sig could be your sig!
They have $42 IN CASH!!
t ml
They have spent more money on legal fees than they've spent on development of the console.
See it all right here:
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040322/iflb.ob8-k.h
In response to the HardOCP lawsuit (http://www.videogamestumpers.com/images/Infinium% 20Motion.pdf), IL claimed that they didn't have a corporate presence.
k .html
Check out the leases section of their 8K filing however:
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040322/iflb.ob8-
"Infinium leases office space in Sarasota, Florida and Richardson, TEXAS under operating leases that expire in 2009 and 2007, respectively. Minimum future rental payments under these leases are as follows"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I caught on that the Phantom was a hoax and Infinium a scam the first time I came across information about them last year.
Why/how has it continued so long when it's obvious to even a dullard like me?
I really don't understand. It's SO OBVIOUS.
Classify this with SCO and Scientology in the "wtf!$?!$? It's SO OBVIOUS" category.
That's in Rhoad Island, where this suit will not be taking place, and further more the plantiff still must prove that the statement was made with malicious intent. Hardly, "quite possible." Technically possible, theoretically possible, not out of the realm of possibility. Sure.
Further more, there is the matter of being a public entity or figure, which requires a higher standard.
HardOCP has a number of true statements, presented as part of an opinion and asks their readers to draw their own conclusions, to their individual benefit, about a public corporation, and relatively public executives in it. They have this won barring any unforseen changes to our code of laws.
In short, yes, Infinium might win, but NASA also might have faked the moon landings with the help of the guys who faked the faking of the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot to divert people's attention away from their preparing to make OJ Simpson the first human on Mars, while arming him with only a powerbook to combate the vast alien hoards. Their chances are only slightly worse than a Sharpton and Keys joint ticket taking the White House.
Courts have a specific jurisdiction. A court in New Jersey cannot litigate over someone who has never been there, for example. Imagine having to defend yourself in a place you have never been. This is just common sense and fair play.
However, nothing really is commonsense in the law. Rendering people immune from suits in a state they have never been makes sense. However, people started to structure their affairs so that they could only be sued in one state despite doing business in many. Eventually, courts adopted a common sense approach to guarantee "fair play". The case is International Shoe. Seriously. Heh.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
Once again, the slashdot editors skew the debate by misstating the situation.
This isn't a "countersuit" because HardOCP DIDNT SUE infinium labs. They requested a declaratory judgement as a way of getting a judge to declare legal threats on infinium's part impotent.
It happens in a courtroom but it isn't "suing".
I bet this appears on thier website soon:
"our favorite console manufacturer" - Slashdot
Just wait. You'll see.
Everything seemed to be going so nice
'till the end of all beings punched right through the ice
If they ever do decide to release the Phantom (not likely), all this negative press is likely to harm sales similar to what happened with the N-Gage.
It seems to me that companies like SCO and Infinium are abusing the American legal system. They are playing silly buggers with the law in order to extract wealth from the economy without actually providing a service or product of value in return.
In the not-so-long run, this is damaging to innovation and fair competition which will in turn damage the economy.
It's probably time for Americans who are aware of the issue to start lobbying for new legislation to target this kind of behaviour - removing the financial rewards and administering punishment to the responsible individuals.
But hey, that's just me... I'm not even an American.
A latest check of the docket shows that the Infinium Labs lawyers forgot to file a Certificate of Interested Persons with the court. It's just a list of people who a financial stake in the outcome of the case. When it is filed on Infinium's part, it could provide a look at the backers of Infinium and who else is financially involved with the company.
In other news, the court ordered a mediation meeting as part of the process to get the two sides to settle. This has to happen by April 23rd. It's intended to be a face-to-face meeting with all parties, but I expect Infinium to go pro se and do a telephone conference. If a settlement can't be reached, then both sides will file a report to the court explaining why.
Until the Certificate of Interested Persons is filed, the case won't progress much until the middle of next month. I've got the docs, but haven't uploaded them my site yet being as they are from the court and none of the parties. If there's a lot of interest, I'll post 'em.
Infinium Labs has retained the following legal council in Texas. This is public information from the court docket.
Baxter W Banowsky
Banowsky Betz & Levine
790 Coit Central Tower
12001 N Central Expwy
Dallas, TX 75243
214/871-1300
Fax : 214/871-0038 FAX
Email: bwb@bblpc.com
The latest info on the case can always be found at whereisphantom.com and the Hardforum.
Links to the essential court docket documents:
KB Networks Civil Cover Sheet.pdf
Infinium Summons
Infinium Motion to Dismiss
Several points: 1) This suit is exclusively concerned with American law, since it involves two American companies and their actions in the American economic sphere; 2) my understanding (which is admittedly not perfect, since I'm not a barrister/solicitor in british law) of the UK system is that truth is no defense if your presentation of the information is malicious. In other words, in the UK you can print/distribute destructive information if it is intended as reporting, whereas you would be exposed to libel if you did so as a non-reporting entity with the intent to harm.
"Stumble before you crawl"
Does anyone know what the advisory board did
Let's see, their Advisory Board consists of:
4 CEOs
1 Attorney
1 Marketing Specialist
1 Bunny Huang, "Reverse Console Engineer"
Obviously, they're designing the hardware. It's the only theory that explains their progress...
Truth is a defense to libel in the USA, it isn't in the UK but on this side of the pond we have a constitutionally protected freedom of press that allows us to tell the ugly truth about matters of public concern. Infinium is a corporation that hopes to one day sell products to the public and has begun to advertise these products even before they are available. Such companies and their directors are public concerns for the purpose of libel.
Libel, vb. 1. To defame someone in a permanent medium, esp. in writing.
Defamation, n. 1. The act of harming the reputation of another by making a statement to a third person; if the alleged defamation involves a matter of public concern, the plaintiff is constitutionally required to prove both the statement's falsity and the defendant's fault.
And just for fun, lets look at slander:
Slander, n. 1. A false, defamatory statement expressed in a transitory form, esp. speech; unlike libel, damages from slander are not presumed and thus must be proved by the plaintiff (unless the defamation is slander per se). 2. vb. The act of making such a statement.
slander per se. Slander for which special damages need not be proved because it imputes to the plaintiff any one of the following: (1) a crime involving moral turpitude, (2) a loathsome disease, (3) conduct that would adversely affect one's business or profession, (4) unchasity (esp. of a woman.) If the defamation does not fall into one of these four categories, it is called slander per quod and the plaintiff must prove special damages.
I don't want to get hysterical and overdramatic, but I think this is an issue of freedom of speech.
The greatest thing about the internet is its ability to put real power in the hands of the average citizen. Look at the Russian motorcycle chick's Chernobyl photos to see an example of just how much potential there is for the average person.
I don't know, but I imagine that Hard OCP has its roots with some average guys who thought it would be cool to put out a gaming review and news site. Simple, not much at stake, no big deal.
Except that these guys and their little gaming site brought forth some information that exposed a company that could have been (may still be?) on the way to screwing over average guys like me.
A fairly small site (I'm sure they're big in gaming circles, but they're not CNN or even Hard Copy) harnessed the power of the internet to do this, and it's power that we all have access to. What's at stake here (and I know that this particular lawsuit seems ridiculous) is a precedent that could potentially scare off the average person from attempting to use the power that is at our fingertips.
I can't afford a lawyer to defend against this kind of stuff. The threat of legal action would probably be enough to deter me: I can't afford to risk my home or my car over a BS lawsuit that I wouldn't have the money to even try to mount a defense against.
The Dalai Llama
stepping down from his favorite soapbox...
My sig could be your sig!
The Infinium Labs website, under "Special Events", says they were going to be at the Game Developers' Conference this week. I didn't see an Infinium booth there, and they're not on the exhibitor list or the booth map.
Stuff like this is why gamers need a Daily Show, but for games. Or like Old Man Murray, but updated.
Heh, right. 'cause the MPAA is almost out of business, and Diebold isn't still selling voting machines? /. is not a barometer of the public interest.
your post is technically correct, but the way the burden of proof works in English defamation law makes the parent broadly right.
The fact that you don't need to *prove* a statement is untrue to launch an English law libel action makes life much easier for the plaintiff. The fact the defendant has to prove true all of has allegations makes life much more difficult, and expensive for him.
This reversal of the burden of proof is why dictators, corrupt businessmen and general slimeballs from all over the world flock to our courts to start libel actions. Our legal system is generally much more sensible that America's, but defamation is a huge exception.
Hard OCP actually comes out on top of all of this, in my accounting. They get A: Slashdot traffic several times, B: Penny Arcade traffic several times, and perhaps most importantly C: an iron clad precedent if anybody else tries to muscle them into submission. HardOCP is going to come out of this as a force to be respected.
And for this, they have to hire an intelligent intelligible attorney who can argue that water is wet.
The ______ Agenda
From the Cambridge English Dictionary: phantom [Show phonetics] adjective [before noun] describes something that you imagine exists or that appears to exist, although in fact it does not: Although she had to have her leg amputated, she still feels as though she's got a phantom limb. They discovered it was a phantom organization set up for the processing of drug profits. UK Although she grew bigger and felt ill, she later discovered it was a phantom (US false) pregnancy. I think this aptly describes the Phantom concole. I wonder if Mr. Roberts is aware of the irony. Or did he chose this name for his "phantom" product knowingly, thinking it a good joke to play with other people's money? I just re-read the HardOCP article, and I can see why this guy is suing. He is hoping the threat of legal action will scare us all into quietude, and allow himn to continue parting people from their money with promises of rich rewards to be generated by his revolutionary technology. It reminds me of the old fable: The Emperor's New Clothes. LOL
...that isn't run by a bunch of jacka$$#$? Try the X Game Station. It's sufficiently obscure that it makes people think you're elite, and it's sufficiently vaporware that it will be a while before that's proven wrong.
JK. Actually, the developers post on their forums all of the time, and seem like normal nice guys not prone to knee-jerk reactions and faked photographs. It's also not really vaporware, as they have released an SDK and other things... it's just a bit late. (Money... Burning... Hole...) It's also a little underpowered as far as primary gaming machines go, but that's not what you buy an alternative console for anyway.
There are good alternative console developers out there. Even if the Phantom people are evil and the DIScovER people are ruthless jerks, some people are doing good things in the world of consoles.
The ______ Agenda
I got back from the Game Developer's Conference (GDC) last night, this is where us game makers go to learn the latest programming tricks & hardware. This is also where hardware makers go to gather support for their new products. Sony was there recruiting developers for PSP & PS3 as was Microsoft for Xbox 2, video card & peripheral makers show up to try to get people to support their titles, even Nintendo (who tends to snub the developer community) has a small booth. Yet one hardware company getting ready to roll out a major product was conspicuously absent from GDC this year. That's right Infinium was totally & completely missing; this absence really does indicate that this is just a vaporware product designed to scam investors out of their money.
We've heard an awful lot about the HardOCP/Phantom litigation, but there seems to be another story lurking. I direct your attention to the following section of Infinium Labs' now overly-linked-to 8-K financial form:
NOTE D - CONVERTIBLE PROMISSORY NOTE
At October 31, 2003, Infinium was involved in a legal dispute with a competitor. In January 2004 the Company, in conjunction with the settlement of litigation, issued a convertible promissory note in the amount of $100,000. The promissory note is non-interest bearing and must be paid or converted into common shares if Infinium has an anticipated merger with a corporation that has common stock trading on the over-the-counter or similar exchange within 241 days from the date of the note, or the liquidated damages total $150,000.
Now this makes less sense to me than most lawyerspeak. Could someone walk me through it?
The other interesting thing is that Infinium names at least one developer: Riverdeep, owner of Broderbund (that's how it's spelled on the site, folks. I know there's supposed to be an "o" in there, but they've changed).
It would be interesting to see if Riverdeep actually acknowledges such an agreement...
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
Oh how I wish this would all go away (as many of us do) This site has some interesting information on the company that some might find amusing: http://www.whereisphantom.com/ Here is a link to the companies legal representation in Texas: http://www.bblfirm.com/banowsky.html And here is a link to the companies most recent 8K filing which clearly states that they have a measly $42 in cash on hand and over 2 million in debt already. http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040322/iflb.ob8-k.html Read and enjoy a good laugh!