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Better Business Bureau Targets Apple's G5 Ads
deathazre writes "The Council of Better Business Bureaus has suggested Apple Computer withdraw its claims of the world's fastest, and first 64-bit, PC after a complaint by Dell. However, even having one of their ads banned in the U.K. didn't stop them here in the States."
Now, to be fair, Apple's ads said that the G5 was the fastest and first 64-bit PC that wasn't made by a company that isn't Apple.
Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
Where'd I put my darn bong?
Oh, here it is, hidden behind my G5.
Hey, when did I get a G5?
Who am I, again?
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Apple has already stated the ad has run its course and it will be 'mindful' of the request in the future. Meaning we've already made out on that one, better luck next time :)
Now whay would Dell of all people make this claim? Dell doesn't even offer a 64 bit PC??
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Yeah, because Intel's new chips really speed up your internet downloads...
Kip Hawley is an idiot.
Hmmm... In the UK, TV regulators banned the ad. In the US, the Better Business Bureau could ban the ad. Apple should take their business to Russia. In Soviet Russia, the ad bans you.
Fastest at what? (No, seriously...)
Fastest selling? TRUE!
Fastest falling? Maybe (Looks aerodynamic...)
Fastest obsolescence?
Fastest at one particular kind of mathematical operation?
Fastest mobo latency?
Fastest design and fab process?
Fastest repairs? (Easy access panel...)
Heh. Who the hells knows what any ads are REALLY about these days. Lies, Damn Lies, and Advertising. I'm not a Mac-hater, writing this from my lovely 12" iBook G4.
While truthfulness in advertising is important, this is one of those times where an advertiser made a claim that is kind of hard to prove. A computer that is faster at one thing is not necessarily faster at another. Besides, when you hear "world's best hamburger," you don't automatically believe them solely based on the ads, do you?
Do average consumers really care about the speed of a computer? most of them are more likely to be looking at the cost of a computer and what they can do with it.
Now a business is more likely to consider a fast computer if it increases productivity, but then a business is more likely to be clued up about hardware and not be believing the claims of an advert.
Ultimately the selection of a computer will be based on if it can do what you want for the right price, there are certain pieces of software that aren't available for non-Windows systems and so speed counts for nothing if you need that software.
I've been wondering about the new McDonnalds comercial here thats says "Nothing is better then a McDonnalds' burger." Really, everything is better then a McDonnalds burger, well, except egg nog.
I don't have time to comment my code, the program is late already.
A company making misleading claims? That's never happened before.
For every karma whore there are four more people with mod points to kill.
As the Apple Turns has an insightful take on the whole thing. I had never heard of the Dell cluster in Buffalo. Bummer for Buffalo.
Boom Shanka
I have never ever seen a benchmark that can truly give a consistent, unbiased speed comparison between 2 different architectures. Many benchmarks wil run at different speeds if run twice on the same system, and it's always possible to bias a benchmark towards a certain processor simply by choosing the operations that can be performed efficiently by that processor.
Given this, I tend to consider speed to be opinion rather than factual information. The fact that a factoid looks like a fact, doesn't make it one. Because of this, I don't see it as a great crime to make semi-substantiated claims iabout speed in the advertising.
It may be fastest, and may have been the cheapest 64 bit desktop PC system on introduction. A problem with making the claim now is that that eMachines has been selling Athlon 64 systems at about $1000 for three months now.
Apple has long shelved the ad campaign though.
And these the same bunch of no-hopers that gave SCO a clean bill of health? Why are we even taking any notice of what they have to say?
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
"Apple, the most powerful, lowest priced 64bit based PC available. That is true."
:)
*Looks at DEC Alpha in corner running NT*
*Looks at UltraSparc running Linux in other corner*
*Looks at reciept for both of them*
So where can I get a G5 for 300 dollars. I could use the upgrade
Whatever gain/loss there was from the ad is water under the bridge. It's too late now, since it can't be taken back. Surely we don't have to remind...
:)
"Any publicity is good and good publicity is even better"
This news is just more publicity...and they didn't have to pay a dime to get it in front of you today. I'd call that making out
You are aware that those numbers are usually LinPack numbers, not just theoretical specs, right? the Xbox probably does run at 80 GFlops in some theoretical sense, when you consider the graphics chip. But, that won't translate into LinPack numbers. The Apple supercomputer, on the other hand, actually has a LinPack score worth mentioning.
The thing that bugs me is that it takes a complaint from a competitor. Haven't individuals been complaining to BBB and other organizations about Apple's ads? The thing is though that Apple HAS been saying "personal computer" all along that I remember so I don't understand the BBB's comments.
Intel's "wireless everywhere" ads don't mention the need for a base station, not the likelyhood that such a station won't be found on a freaking mountain for that matter, despite what some of the ads imply.
Everytime I see their ad where the guy says, "Dude! You're getting a Dell!" I wait patiently by my door for the FedEx guy. He hasn't showed up yet! I'm awfully disappointed by their lack of honesty in their advertisements.
My favorite completely ridiculous advertising claim these days is Pentax' claim as the Official Digital Camera of the Internet.
These companies have gone completely nuts.
You know, that is *obviously* not true.
Else the ads wouldn't be an issue.
Else no one would blink an eye.
Like the Microsoft ads where the kid starts flying. OBVIOUSLY not true.
These ads, if OBVIOUSLY untrue, as you claim, then shouldn't be a problem.
The real problem here, and why Dell is complaining, is that when they were released, they were VERY true.
It was the most powerful 64bit computer per dollar; that is why Virginia Tech chose the G5 over all other competitors (including Dell) for their supercomputer. No one was cheaper. No one was more powerful.
Today? No, not THE most powerful, nor the cheapest, offered by an OEM.
GPL Deconstructed
Apple makes excellent computers.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Trying to see whether an ad campaign has succeeded or failed based on the number of sales versus what was predicted in a given quarter is kind of like trying to infer causal effects for a graph showing correlation between two independently measured variables with no other data--a big mistake.
Whether an ad succeeds or fails often cannot be measured based on sales in a fluctuating economy with a variable product interest. The critical question is would they have sold 206k G5 computers if they had not run the ad campaign? There is also the corollary question of would they could have sold more with a different ad campaign?
The first of these questions is nontrivial to answer and requires good, well researched data on why your customers are buying the product. Apple may have that data--you most certainly do not. The latter is almost impossible to infer even with good data on people's purchasing.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
It's pretty funny to me how a computer maker with only 3% of the total computer market can garner so much attention over one little statement.
As others have pointed out there have been just as many other biased, false, and outright ridiculus claims such as faster inernet thanks to a processor, dancing flourescant colored clean room suits, and all sorts of stuff.
yet intel's marketing arm, er, Dell decides they need to file a complaint with the BBB over it and they hold the #1 spot for desktops?
Things that make you go hmmm.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Well, speed is a simple, measureable and quantifiable concept.
Speed in computers is not "simple" and it is not easily quantifiable. Case in point, take the Earth Simulator--rated as the fastest computer in the world right now on the Top500. Any computer scientists could write a program where it would perform painfully slowly compared to a computer with a processor from years ago simply because of how it works and the way it is designed: lots of processors that are good at one and only one thing--vector processing.
"Speed" with computer begs the fundamental question of "speed at what? I don't think intel's chips offer an FMADD instruction, for instance, which is part of the reason why the G5 is so impressive--it can field two of them per clock cycle. At integer based DSP the G5 is not going to be nearly as impressive--this isn't exactly a first past the post kind of thing
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I have a G5.
For my code, it's faster clock-for clock than a Xeon, and (usually) slower clock-for-clock than an opteron. Benchmarks can be made to say just about anything, but I bet the G5 is the fastest thing around for some people running their software.
To date, Apple has not released a 64-bit OS for the G5, and not only has not announced any intention to do so, but simply avoids admitting this to be the case. Think what you like, but even if you think "64-bit" doesn't mean "a single application can access more than 4 GB of RAM", you certainly have to be perplexed by the sense in which Apple claims to have "broken the 4 GB barrier", given that their latest OS provides your app access to the RAM just the way an Intel-based 32-bit system can.
Since there is not 64-bit OS for this machine (although Linux is very close), I cannot prove that my G5 has 64-bit hardware, tho I guess I believe it.
I will now accept my troll-mod, since I have posted this atrocity in an apple.stlashdot.org story.
Just wait until the BBB finds out that using a G5 will not blow you right through the wall onto your lawn.
I don't know about you but is there bigger fish to fry out there when it comes to truth in advertising. If the BB wants to make a statement, why not go after all those diet pill advertisers who claim to help you lose wieght in 30 days without diet or exercise. Or make thousands of dollars working from home in 30 days. To my knowledge, the BB said nothing when movie studios put out raving reviews of their movie by non-existent movie critics.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
"performed the multi-processor "Rate" benchmarks with hyperthreading DISABLED" because the PC ran faster with them disabled. You're just trolling.
-- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
They are now working to get 2 terabytes of IS.
I agree with you about "lying" being wrong and companies have a responsibility to be honest about their products. But, from what I read, I agree with Apple's approach. They tried to compare apples with apples by choosing a compiler that could be used on both machines. They used a third party vendor to perform the test. They tried to configure both machines to model "real" world use (keyword "model"). Not some pristine lab condition with techies fine tuning the machines to perform optimaly, but more like my computer here at my house, using it the way I'm using it right now. To me, that kind of test, one that models the real world, is more meaningful than one that you'd have to be in a clean room to duplicate.
jg
...Dell claiming that they were the first to ship integrated wireless and antennas in a laptop, even though Apple in fact did it more than a year earlier?
Maybe someone should "act on behalf of consumers" to notify them of these "inaccuracies".
How do you measure the speed of a computer?
Is a 3 GHz P4 with 4 MB RAM faster than a 1.6 GHz G5 with 16 GB RAM? Not likely. So it's not [only] the clock frequency of the CPU that matters.
A fast computer is, IMHO, one which allows me to perform a certain task in a short time. Think about it - isn't this what _really_ matters? Can I write my essays in a shorter time on a 2 GHz G5 than an old iMac? Not really.
Comparing Macs and Windows machines, I'd say Macs have always been faster, and will likely be for quite some time. Since the G5 is the fastest Mac, I'd say it's the fastest computer.
My two cents.
Sig Nature
I think that it'd be a nice waste of time to take some of Dell's claims under consideration and report any false information. After all, they've been "first" in so many things Apple actually beat them to, that it shouldn't be too hard to find something to report.
... Maybe we should be pleased that there's at least some regulation in place.
;-)
I'm not especially vexed by Dell's move, Apple's claim is dubious, although I personally think they make their point: they've got the fastest personal computer you can buy off the shelve. OK, maybe not anymore, next month maybe again, etc etc, who cares, they still make the most pleasing computer afaic, and I don't mind it being fast.
I am however surprised America reacts to this type of hyperbole. Your presidents get elected on this, all the goods you buy are sold on this, your news is full of it
Me, I'm still waiting for the "I can't believe it's not Windows" campaign for Linux
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Actually, the 533 MHz Xeon bus means a dual Xeon system is likely memory bound for a lot of video tasks, which are bandwidth-critical, or a mix of bandwidth and CPU bound. Single-processor P4 is a lot faster than Xeon for video decoding, for example, since the bus is 2/3rds faseter. Dual G5 and Dual Opteron provide way more bandwidth per processor than Xeon in dual configurations, and so win for a lot of media processing tasks.
My video compression blog