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Wal-Mart Sells PCs Preloaded With Sun's Linux
badboy3062 writes "Wal-Mart this week started selling Microtel PCs preloaded with Sun's Java Desktop System. Prices start at under $300 for a system without a floppy drive or monitor. Jonathan Schwartz, Sun's executive vice president for software, says this move is just another step in its plan to gain new audiences for its technologies."
here you go
as low as $288
vodka, straight up, thank you!
clicky
Actualy Floppy drives have gotten expensive around $10 a unit in modest quanities. Add the cost of installation and repair and it's 3.33-5% of the total cost of the system why bother?
No sir I dont like it.
No, in fact, I got a Sun Java Desktop "livecd" thingie with an issue of Linux User & Developer that I bought the other day...haven't really tried it out, but I'm pretty sure it's free
Setec Astronomy
Its been around for a while, I like its clean look. Here's more info
Those are "Lindows" machines, not "Sun Java Whatever" machines.
Selling a $300 US computer with Linux is not "something that smacks of coolness."
The 2nd def. in the dictionary of "smack" is "To have or exhibit indications of the presence of any character or quality."
So by "smacks of coolness" I just mean that it's something that indicates coolness, but that doesn't mean that it is, indeed, cool.
Like when Duncan says to the injured sergeant, "So well thy words become thee, as they wounds; they smack of honor, both." Just gives the appearance, you know?
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Why does that not ring true. I can buy an OEM floppy for $7. Why wouldn't a large vendor be able to buy them for a quarter of that. And installation is no more difficult than a hard drive. Repairing is as easy as mailing out another $2 floppy drive.
You might already have Windows 2000 which is still a perfectly good OS.
I just had a client order a PC from Walmart 3 weeks ago, and I thought the cost (with Lindows, not the Sun offering) was more like $215, though that was with 64M RAM. I thought it was $265 after shipping.
Oh well. Still better than paying the Microsoft tax.
is the fact that you can't walk in to Wal-Mart and pick one of these up. They're only available online.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Actually, the tagline "the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" originates with Sun, not with Walmart. Check out Sun's JDS webpage - the very first line includes the "first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" phrase.
OK, skip walmart and go here, buy your system, and download/purchase your favorite distro and install. It seems there are some even better systems for less than the Wal-Mart price.
If you check out the walmart site, you will see that they have other models (higher priced ones at least - I didn't look to see if there were similarly priced ones) that come with Windows XP Home on them. So it isn't that they didn't want to pay for the license - they already are paying for the license.
Sun talked Walmart into selling them - in the same manner as Lindows was cutting such deals (and perhaps still are) with various chains.
URL: http://xanga.com/lvirden > Quote: Saving the world before bedtime. Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, n
PengAOL is an AOL connection app for Linux. There, you happy?
Nope.
The Java Enterprise System is subscription based. The Java Desktop System is a pay once model - about $70 USD I believe. And since it's based on SUSE, you can then upgrade however you want (or know how to do). Or you can wait until the next version of the JDS come out. Or you can wait until Looking Glass come out and upgrade then.
This is really no different that the Windows boxes the sell. What's better, Linux on the desktop will get MASSIVE penetration thanks to Walmart. It will be pre-loaded so Linux will have the advantage that Windows has. It will be easy to use, familiar and much safer than Windows. It might be Linux with training wheels, but it's still Linux.
Personally, I think this is a brilliant move by Sun. First the sell JDS to China and manay other countries, then they make it available as a powerful, yet cost effective alternative to Windows for average folks running low-end hardware. Certainly a good way to win the hearts and minds of the regualr, non-technical folks out there.
BTW, the JDS is very easy to use. Our head of sales uses it and it HE can use it, anyone can.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
What's the big deal here. If you go to Dell.com and click on Small Business you can get a Poweredge server for $279 with the following components:
Intel P4 2.4 Ghz
40 GB Hard Drive
128 MB Memory
Floppy Drive
48x CD-ROM
($379-$100 mail in rebate) I hate mail in rebates!!!!
This is basically a low-end desktop with no OS. Load your favorite distro and there you go!!
I think it's great that a company is selling computers preloaded with Linux but this really isn't news.
Man I have bought a bunch of these boxes. I normally buy the cheap 200 dollar not loaded model and throw fedora core on them and give them to our customers. In the two years now of running them I only had one that had the power supply give up the smoke. For non power users that just want to surf the web and do a occasional spread sheet the box is more than fast enough.
Got Code?
No, you guessed wrong. Well, I suppose you can't prevent a naive user from doing this, but JDS is based on SuSE, and SuSE requires you to define a non-root user at install time, telling you noisily that this is the account you should be using most of the time. So chances are good that most novice users will end up doing the right thing (it seems to work for SuSE, at any rate).
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
WalMart is not strong arming suppliers--the suppliers don't have to supply WalMart if they don't want to. What WalMart is doing is telling suppliers that they must have low prices and good service, if they are going to remain a supplier. When I say good service in this context it means that you supply the correct quantity, meeting spec, and on time.
My plant supplies WalMart and they suddenly wanted us to supply in (much) more expensive packaging and told us it had to be at the same price as the old packaging. We went to the Wal Mart buyer with the facts of what the new packaging would cost and they were OK with a price increase representing the increased cost. My experience is that they are good business people and they expect their suppliers to be good. If you can't supply quality product on time and at a competitive cost, you won't be a WalMart supplier.
Well, apart from the obvious marketing ploy by Sun, it does come with the latest J2SE installed by default and even has some GUI apps that are Java-based rather than C/Gnome based. How many other distros and os can claim that, apart from OSX. I've purused the demo CD and I think it's a pretty sweet system.
Hey and just for fun, poke through and see if you can find the apps that are Swing based...
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
A solid piece of hardware - I now have three operating in various capacities around the house - but noisy like you wouldn't believe. I've become accustomed to some minimal amount of acoustic engineering going into boxes these days -- all of the name brand boxes have an average (low) amount of noise. Not so with the Microtel. The power supply has a whoosh to it, and the CPU fan a bit of a low whir. You may be able to remedy this with a replacement low-noise PS.
Not bad for under $300, but, as always, you get what you pay for.
Why don't we have boxes with external (fanless - noiseless) power supplies? Everything that goes on inside the box is low voltage DC, right?
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
While I see the Java Desktop System as a good start, I am not sure the timing for consumer release is ideal. Certainly these systems will satisfy office application needs, web surfing, and multi-media, but for many consumers, the game titles on the system are important. If I can't get the next release of my favorite video game for JDS, I'm not likely to buy that system. Sun needs to work with the game industry to promote JDS.
I work with Sun hardware/software regularly at work and have met with various levels of Sun staff. Recently I was at a presentation by Sun where I had a chance to talk with a presenter covering the JDS, Solaris x86, and other Sun software. The one real question I pressured on was how is Sun working with hardware vendors to increase driver support. His response boils down to this:
Sun dropped the ball when they didn't promote support of the x86 platform. They now need to regain confidence.
Sun is working with vendors to encourage driver development. In some cases, Sun will create drivers themselves (if vendors won't).
Another interesting point from the presentation was the move to try to have binary compatibility on Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, and JDS. The presentation wasn't real clear on how they intend to accomplish it.
As a Sun employee, I can say we are indeed eating our own dogfood. :) And it tastes GREAT.
When I went to price out one of Sun's new AMD systems, I was somewhat disappointed. First of all, the website does not give the level of detail that Dell's does. I want to know everything about the system from ram speed, to hd speed, to bus speed, etc. Then, I want much more ability to configure scsi, ide, raid levels, etc. On top of that, it was pretty expensive. You can get a dual xeon dell with 2GB of ram, 15K rpm scsi for about $1,000 less than a bare bones sun with an amd chip. For what it's worth, IBM is much worse in this regard when pricing any of their systems online. I think they're even more expensive and the website sucks way more.
First of all, you must not have looked very hard, because if you go to the main SunFire V20z server page and click on the Datasheet link halfway down the page, you get all of the specs you could ever want, including RAM speed and hard drive speed.
Second of all, on the price issue: You're not comparing Apples to Apples if you compare it with a Xeon server. Xeon is only a 32-bit architecture, which is severely memory bandwidth starved, as all processors in the system share the same paltry 533-mhz. memory bus. AMD's Hypertransport gives each processor dedicated channels to accesss memory with. Not only that, you're getting a full 64-bit machine, which runs circles around similarly equipped Xeons. If you don't believe me, Tom's Hardware recently did a comparison between dual and quad servers running Opteron and Xeon processors, and the Opterons ate the Xeons for lunch. I can't seem to find the exact link to the article, but it was posted on Slashdot a little while back.
Third, anyone who has purchased Sun hardware before knows that the price listed on the web is the "suggested retail price", and that you should call a local Sun reseller to get a much better price.
After you've gotten a real price, compare the two and I think you'll be surprised to see the Sun is actually cheaper than the Dell. On their low-end servers Sun has actually reached price parity and even beats Dell on most similar configurations. This is something that not a lot of Dell customers are even aware of, since most of them don't purchase Sun on a regular basis.
So, your purchasing choice really comes down to a support question:
Do you want Dell to provide your hardware support, and purchase Linux support from a third-party vendor like Red Hat with their Advanced Server package? (Be sure to add that $1500 license fee into the cost of your server)
-or-
Do you want Sun to be your one stop shop for both hardware and software support, freeing you up to do your job and not having to worry about the whole hardware vs. software support issue?
I think if you actually priced in all the support costs the Sun box actually ends up giving you a lower TCO. Most Sun Enterprise customers know this, and prefer to have just one vendor to call when anything goes wrong.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Electronics Computers Desktops Microtel PCs Sun Java Desktop Systems
Microtel SYSWM8001 PC With AMD Duron 1.6 GHz, No Floppy Drive $298.00
Availability: 1 to 4 business days to process before shipping.
Shipping Cost: To see the shipping cost for this item, add it to your cart.
Sun has delivered the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative. The Java desktop system is a more affordable, secure desktop, designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world and run thousands of Java technology-based applications.
Model No. SYSWM8001
Accessories Included Keyboard,Mouse,Speakers.
Description
* AMD 1.6 GHz Duron processor with 3D-Now technology
* 200 MHz frontside bus
* 128 MB 266 MHz DDR memory, expandable to 2 GB
* 1 PC266 DDR DIMM socket available
* 40 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive / 5400 rpm (total accessible capacity varies, depending on operating environment)
* 52x CD-ROM drive
* Note: does NOT include a floppy drive
* Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
* 56 Kbps modem
* Integrated video with up to 32 MB shared default setting is 16 MB
* Integrated AC'97 Audio
* Mid-tower ATX case (7.25"W x 18.75"D x 16.44"H)
* Available drive bays: external, two 5.25-inch, two 3.5-inch
* Available slots: 2 PCI
* Serial port
* Parallel port
* 4 USB 2.0 ports (2 front-mounted)
* 104-key keyboard
* 2-button mouse with wheel
* Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
* 14-watt (RMS) stereo speakers
* 1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
* Sun Java desktop system
* Complete desktop environment with office applications (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, browser, email, calendar)
* Based on Linux operating system
* Uses the security features of Java to prevent unsafe codes, such as viruses, from damaging the system environment
* Additional pre-installed software includes StarOffice 7 Office Suite
* Word processing, spreadsheet, presentation, drawing and database capabilities
* Exchange files with other office suites, including Microsoft Office
* Maintain your current investment in other file formats, and collaborate with users of Microsoft Office
* Seamlessly interchange documents with enhanced Microsoft Office interoperability
* Share files within and outside your organization with the popular PDF read-only format
* Easily mail documents without separately starting up the email client or navigating a file hierarchy
* Bring StarOffice multimedia presentations to virtually any Web browser with the new Export to Macromedia Flash feature
* Any editor that supports XML can be used to read, edit and save StarOffice documents
* File sharing is easy, and users are not locked in to a proprietary vendor format
* Automate repetitive tasks, and assign shortcut keys with the new Macro Recorder
* View, edit and save documents to and from Palm and Pocket PC devices
* Share StarOffice presentations with Web-conferencing support from Placeware
* Easily integrate with MySQL databases to extract, manage and analyze data
* Database Report Autopilot enables quick and easy report generation from databases
* Accessibility features for seeing or hearing-impaired users
Shipping weight in pounds: 30.0
Product Measurement in inches: 16.44 x 18.75 x 7.25
Volts: 110 or 220V
Instruction Manual: Included
Instruction Languages: English
Assembled Country of Origin: USA
Components Country of Origin: USA and/or Imported
I'd expect some of the technology worker bees and programmers not to have much difficulty moving to something like this, but how about further up Sun's management hierachy that lives and breathes things like Excel spreadsheets and Powerpoint presentations?
I hate to burst your bubble, but having worked for Sun for the last 2 years, I can tell you that Sun does a pretty good job of keeping their own employees using Sun software. This includes Star Office and Solaris. Most Sun offices use SunRay terminals hooked to a Sun Enterprise server. They run StarOffice 7 on top of Solaris 9. This makes it pretty easy for a Mac geek like me to open work documents using OpenOffice on OS X. In fact, up until very recently it was a fireable offence to even install Windows XP on any work computer. They were pretty worried about all of the privacy issues in XP and didn't want MS stealing corporate secrets through some unknown backdoor. Now, they allow you to run XP only if you run some script called XP Neuter first.
If anything, things are the other way around here, simply because of the NIH (not invented here) syndrome. Sun employees tend to be extremely anti-MS and anti-IBM, and most would not run MS Office or even Internet Explorer unless they were forced to by some management directive.
About the Java Desktop rollout: I can't speak for those in large Sun offices like Broomfield, CO and Burlington, MA; they may be running it already, but out in the small field offices it hasn't been rolled out yet. I haven't had a chance to preview it yet with the LiveCD thingy, but I would imagine within a year or so everyone will be running it.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Home Page Electronics Computers Desktops Microtel PCs Sun Java Desktop Systems
Microtel SYSWM8006 PC With Hyper-Threading 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 & CD-RW/DVD Combo
$698.00
Availability: 1 to 4 business days to process before shipping.
Pentium 4 processor
3.0 Hyper-Threading technology
800 MHz frontside bus
256 MB 400 MHz DDR memory
80 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive
3.5-inch floppy drive
Speakers included
* 800 MHz frontside bus
* 256 MB 400 MHz DDR memory, expandable to 2 GB
* One 184-pin PC400 DDR DIMM socket available
* 80 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive / 7200 rpm (total accessible capacity varies, depending on operating environment
* 48x, 24x, 48/16x CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive
* 3.5-inch floppy drive
* Integrated Intel Extreme Graphics up to 32 MB, default setting 16 MB
* AC'97 six-channel audio
* Integrated 10/100 LAN
* 56 Kbps PCI data/fax modem
* Mid-tower ATX case (7.25"W x 18.75"D x 16.44"H)
* Available drive bays: external three 5.25-inch, one 3.5-inch; internal four 3.5-inch
* Available slots: 2 PCI, 1 AGP 4x
* Serial port
* Parallel port
* 4 USB 2.0 ports (2 front-mounted)
* 104-key keyboard
* 2-button mouse with wheel
* Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
* Stereo speakers
* 1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
* Sun Java desktop system
* Complete desktop environment with office applications (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, browser, email, calendar)
* Based on Linux operating system
* Uses the security features of Java to prevent unsafe codes, such as viruses, from damaging the system environment
* Additional pre-installed software includes StarOffice 7 Office Suite
* Word processing, spreadsheet, presentation, drawing and database capabilities
* Exchange files with other office suites, including Microsoft Office
* Maintain your current investment in other file formats and collaborate with users of Microsoft Office
* Seamlessly interchange documents with enhanced Microsoft Office interoperability
* Share files within and outside your organization with the popular PDF read-only format
* Easily mail documents without separately starting up the email client or navigating a file hierarchy
* Bring StarOffice multimedia presentations to virtually any Web browser with the new Export to Macromedia Flash feature
Shipping weight in pounds: 30.0
Product Measurement in inches: 16.44 x 18.75 x 7.25
Volts: 110 or 220V
Instruction Manual: Included
Instruction Languages: English
Assembled Country of Origin: USA
Components Country of Origin: USA and/or Imported
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Dell does sell computers that don't require the microsoft tax you know.
Show us the numbers. I have spoken with people who OEM Windows and their cost is well over $50, often over $150 if they want to bundle Office.
The cost of a Linux distro for an OEM is generally in the $5 to $50 range depending on volume and support options.
For an OEM that is a HUGE difference. In the case of Windows+MS Office versus Linux+(Open|Star)Office it will be the difference between a $248 (whitebox), $298 (linux whitebox) and a $348 (windows whitebox) machine. Prices straight from comparing Wal-Mart.com's various SKUs
If someone is shopping for a machine that low cost, you better believe that a 15% difference is going to make a difference if they need an OS.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Yes, the Java Enterprise System does indeed have something to do with Java, namely the App Server, but it includes other things, as shown by the quote from the datasheet
So, namely the JES (for short) is the collection of server services that used to be called SunONE, and before that was iPlanet and so on. The cool thing is that this is integrating the software stack and simplifying Sun's software offerings.
Now, JDS (Jave Desktop System) also has something to do with Java, namely the JRE. It also has several Java apps integrated into it, as well as a consistent look & feel with GNOME, Evolution, Mozilla, and the Java apps. Otherwise JDS is simply Linux with "some tweaks" as others have stated here on
As far as the naming goes--blame marketing.
Disclaimer: Yes, I work for Sun.
"If you insist on using Windoze you're on your own."
As if the closed circuit TV systems that monitor every square inch of the store aren't enough.
Actually, not all of the camera domes you see in the ceiling have cameras in them.
That being said, I once had one of the Wal*Mart greeters chase me out into the parking lot and demand that I return inside the store because I apparently set off "Wal*Mart's inventory control system!". She refused to tell me why I needed to go back inside, so I shrugged and walked away. A plainclothesd LP came up to my drivers window as I was about to pull off. I told her she was free to ask her question in the parking lot, but I would not be inconvenienced to return inside the store unless she could give me a good reason. She told me they were calling the cops. I handed her my driver's license, said "Write down my name, go watch your videotape, and decide if you need to call the cops", took it back and drove away.
The funny thing was the reaction of the cops when I called them warning them that Wal*Mart was going to call them, and I gave them the full story. The copy who answered the phone had kind of an exasperated sound. "Yeah, they do that sort of stuff all the time", he told me.
Go figure.
Speaking of cameras, some Best Buy stores actually track 1 in 50 or so customers from entrance to exit for marketing purposes. You won't see the typical big black camra domes, instead there are little white camera domes on the trusswork, very, very inconspicuous. They're a few meters apart and completely blanket the store. (You should see the racks they go back to, it's insane) It's not in every store, but they tell me that the watch where you go, what you pick up, what you actually buy, etc.
Kinda scary really.
Wal-Mart cameras more often than not target the employees rather than the customers. Shoplifters are a problem, but the low-income, often teenage cashiers ringing up "special sales" for their friends (e.g., bringing a computer and a pack of gum to the counter and only paying for the pack of gum) is a much bigger, and costlier one.
On a radio interview I heard recently, a journalist who's covered WalMart and (I believe) wrote a book about them pointed out that WalMart has threatened suppliers with having copies of their merchandise made by a Chinese supplier.
This may not be illegal, but it doesn't exactly smack of what nice guys do. It smacks a lot of what mean people do.
Might not need DELL to prove it since HP is stepping up their Linux support and will now pre-load with Linux, I believe Mandrake or SUSE - see recent posts to Slashdot.
The corporate culture at WalMart promotes bullying. As a support engineer for one of their telecom providers, I heard them threaten to walk away from signed contracts 3 times in the course of two months if we would not produce increased service levels - beyond those originally stated (measured and proven) for free. "We are Wal-Mart. Resistance is Futile" Of course, the sales side of the house caved to the pressure. This is not an isolated event...
legal. fun. profitable. pick two.
Sun's Java Desktop Linux distribution is SuSE 8.something with Sun logos. YaST, RPM, no little green chameleon. Format, install SuSE 9.1 with kernel 2.6 once it is released.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
You'd need a special custom power connector for it, which would raise the price per unit some, if you changed from good ole' standard.
I think some machines have this already (didnt apple on the cube? maybe im wrong). But your sub-$300 pc is going to cut pennies wherever it can.
-
ugly, underpowered, outdated? Why, because dad bought you the latest dual Intel Xeon with a $500 video board so you can frag away with your friends?
I'm writing this from one of those ugly, underpowered, outdated 1.3 Ghz Duron, 128 MB Microtels right now. 1.6 Ghz comparable to a postage stamp? You've been brainwashed by the gaming/hardware industry, my young friend.
While no one I know has purchased Microtels from Walmart, I'd say that's because there aren't any Walmarts in the area. I have, and business associates I know have, purchased Microtels from TigerDirect. I've been run Apache on several of them for about 3 years, with uptimes exceeding a year. Business associates have been using them for file/print, dns, apache, and desktops. Yes, desktops. Instead of spending $600 to $1,000 for business desktops (just the hardware and Windows operating system), they can spend $200-$230 plus shipping, and get a fully functioning computer that is more than sufficient for their offices, and to replace lesser powered, older systems.
Of those that need faster systems for some reason, they are still using the Microtel systems, but are forwarding X over the lan from a more powerful server (still under $1,000, including memory upgrade).
Walmart doesn't sell bath soaps and cereals to your mom, young man. They sell whatever consumer goods to consumers that consumers want or need. And through their wholesale division, they also sell to businesses. But their wholesale division is not located at every location where a regular Walmart is located, so Walmart relies on their Walmart stores to also sell to businesses.
Small businesses far outnumber medium (500+ employees) and large businesses. And small businesses are far more likely to have retail versions of software licenses, including Microsoft server licenses. And they are far more likely to run out and pick up a new desktop or three, on a spur of the moment, or over a weekend, than big businesses (though I've known techs from billion dollar companies do this also).
You may think a Microtel is ugly, outdated, and underpowered, especially if running a Microsoft operating system, but according to some of your fanboy tech enthusiast sites, my 1.3 Ghz Duron powered system will run rings around a 2 Ghz Celery powered system, especially against office productivity testing programs.
One problem was OpenOffice taking long time to load, but that problem was removed with OpenOffice optimizations to memory settings in the 1.0 release, faster startup in the 1.1 release, and the fact that in office settings on a server/client setup with X forwarding, OpenOffice can and often is left running on the server. While KDE is bloated compared to Windowmaker or Xfce, and KDE is often activated as the default environment, it can easily be switched to another lighter desktop, and in that case, can run even on a postage stamp. But the Microtels have no problems running KDE and OpenOffice on them, without a memory or processor upgrade, I should know, I'm doing it now.
Another fact that you or your dad may not have considered coming from a Windows environment, is that because a large number of small businesses are running old systems, dating back to the first generation of pentiums, 486s in some of the small businesses I know, and even Intel 8086s, and 8088s for custom written calculations in DOS that they 1. don't want to pay to have rewritten, and 2. aren't aware that Linux has DOS emulation. The last time I suggested moving off WordPerfect for DOS and onto Linux/OpenOffice, the response was, "why?" "It works". "Why mess with it, if it works?"
Business owners, especially small businesses, are very conservative. If something works, they don't want to upgrad
You're not good at reading, it seems.
The parent post that you replied to said this:
> I understand the logic of why they do it. But the fact that "we" as the public go along with that escapes me.
(my emphasis)
And then you explained in detail "why they do it."