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Chaotic Computing In Practice

codyhess writes "The Economist published a great article detailing efforts to use Chaos in computing - "Speaking at the American Physical Society's annual March conference, William Ditto of the University of Florida told of his efforts to create a 'chaotic computer'." Dr. Ditto can create standard logic gates (AND, OR, etc) that output a value according the their chaotic threshhold. Different logic operations can be performed by simply changing the threshhold, making an incredibly flexible computer that can perfom different functions instantaneously."

51 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Chaotic Computing... by hookedup · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nothing new, I've been doing that since Windows 3.11! :)

  2. Anyone with the misfortune of reading my source... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...is already well versed in chaotic computing.

  3. I suppose this beats my design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was just going to hire really crazy programmers, and change their meds based on what I needed.

    1. Re:I suppose this beats my design by haystor · · Score: 2, Funny

      chmod +x /dev/random

      --
      t
  4. When I do chaotic computing... by dolo666 · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... I type in random characters in Google and hit "I feel Lucky".

  5. Argh! by Knight+Thrasher · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Skynet is being born!! .. or not!! But I like the idea of logically flexible computers, and fear it at the same time. Sometimes, especially after work, it's nice to come home to something that can think in a straight line.

  6. Google was no help... by jea6 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Google was no help...in translating this article into English.

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
  7. Woa by bawb · · Score: 4, Funny


    I first read that as Catholic Computing.

    Pearly Gate logic will have to wait a few years yet, I guess.

    1. Re:Woa by HalfOfOne · · Score: 5, Funny

      Catholic computing:

      The system has encountered an unrecoverable error and IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. I SAW YOU pausing just a little too long before closing those suggestive webcam ads. Now go burn that copy of The Da Vinci Code, wash your eyes out with holy water after your clandestine mission to The Passion, and go out and buy a wooden yardstick to smack your fingers with every time you have an innapropriate thought.

      And spit out your gum.

  8. April Fool? by Windsurfer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Check out the date of the article - April 1st...

    1. Re:April Fool? by NeedleSurfer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually I was providing technical support at that convention, an incredible one it was, 60% computers were Macs (it seems Apple claims about scientific computing moving to Macs is actually true) 6 or 7 were Linux laptops and the rest were the obligatory Windows machines. The subject covered were, well... exotics, if not esoterics but very interesting, I was able to listen to quite a few of them and actually understood what they were talking about 70% of the time (the talks about atom spin control and prediction, I admit, just plain eluded me). This talk indeed happened, I can attest, this wasn't an april fools joke.

  9. Not chaotic? by Rkane · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am not a physicist, engineer, or scientist (or anything else qualified to answer this) but it seems to me, the simple minded one, that once you start controlling something, it isn't chaotic. I mean- if they are basing decisions on this, then it can't be completely chaotic, can it? How can you derive an AND, OR, etc, from chaos without controlling it (thus negating the chaos). Can someone dumb this down a little for those of us who aren't in the know?

    1. Re:Not chaotic? by forand · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it is about scale. Think about it this way: all of physics that we know, gravity exempted, is proabablistic: we don't know what is going to happen at any given stage just what MIGHT happen. However this is only true on a quantum level, Newton's Laws still hold, mostly, and we don't worry about sponaneously appearing inside the sun because we COULD it is just extremely unlikly. Similarly if you make a big enough system out of chaotic states or in this case random assembly then you can find patterns, like Newton's laws, these can be used to do computing.

      Hope this helps!

  10. Sounds similar to... by robslimo · · Score: 5, Informative

    analog computers of old. IIRC they were used for ballistics calculations and similar by the military.

    Here is an example.

    Look into what kind of mathematical operations can be realized with multiplying DACs.

  11. I'm confused by FreemanPatrickHenry · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dr. Ditto

    Wait...Rush Limbaugh has a Ph.D?

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous .sig which, unfortunately, this space is too small to contain.
  12. But is it easy to work with? by Chief+Technovelgist · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Sounds kind of like a quantum logic thinker, from one of Greg Bear's early books:

    "The QL is a monster to work with' he said..."It has no priorities, no real sense of needs or goals. It thinks, but it may not solve. Quantum logic can outline the center of a problem before it understands the principles and questions, and then, from our point of view, everything ends in confusion. More often than not, it comes up with a solution to a problem that is not stated. It does virtually everything but linear, time's arrow ratiocination."
    1. Re:But is it easy to work with? by ItWasThem · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Greg Bear is awesome. My favorite author and that particular story you mention was really good. I think I have all of his books. Anyone out there looking for great SciFi should definitely check him out.

      If you haven't read his Eon, Eternity and Legacy trilogy I highly recommend them. Eternity is my favorite book.

      Moving Mars was also very good and touched on some of the same QL stuff. Darwin's Radio was okay but I couldn't get into the sequel Darwin's Children. Blood Music was really good if a little creepy.

      Anyways, Greg Bear is the best.

  13. Journalism at its best again by underworld · · Score: 3, Insightful
    They have also made a logic element out of a pair of leech neurons (nerve cells from blood-sucking worms) placed on a microchip. Dr Ditto readily admits that, like quantum computing, this technology is still in its infancy. But it certainly has potential--even though many people feel that existing computers are quite chaotic enough already.

    i think this paragraph really sums things up. the editor is such a moron as to explicitly state the obvious grammatical correlation between mathematically chaotic logic circuits and the general "chaos" users experience with their computers. and that preceded by a description that sounds like some kind of vampirian (or is it vampirical?), frankensteinian, technological monster. (rob zombie brings you "attack of the chaotic leech borgs"!).

    p.s. the chaotic leech borgs would be a good name for a band
  14. IEEE Definition by Bimo_Dude · · Score: 5, Informative
    Apparently, this theory was first developed in 1996. Here is the IEEE Definition of chaotic computing.

    The way I see it (although I am not a mathematician), the major hurdle to realizing this is the fact that generating random numbers usually results in patterns.

    --
    "Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)
    1. Re:IEEE Definition by pegr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The way I see it (although I am not a mathematician), the major hurdle to realizing this is the fact that generating random numbers usually results in patterns.

      Perhaps it's a semantical argument, but if you are producing patterns, you're not producing random numbers...

    2. Re:IEEE Definition by JGski · · Score: 5, Informative
      Chaos != Random

      Chaos is a middle-ground between purely ordered and purely random. There is structure in chaotic systems, it's only that on short orders of time it appears random to human neural signal processing - this is largely a limitation of the human capacity to perceive rather than a characteristic of the system observed.

    3. Re:IEEE Definition by jazmataz23 · · Score: 4, Informative
      There's a great paradox here. A few quick points: an accepted definition of a random number is one whose algorithm for construction is at least as long as the number itself. i.e. the number 0.142857142857... is not random, because the minimal algorithm that will construct it is simply 1/7. Numbers generated by rolling a dice can only be described by listing the sequence of dice roll results that created them.

      Yes, most of the numbers in the space (0,1) are random. No, we cannot prove that any particular number is random. I *strongly* suggest reading The Dreams of Reason: The Computer and the Rise of the Sciences of Complexity by Heinz R. Pagels for an *excellent* treatment of these issues. An interesting point/counterpoint (with me being a bit of a troll at the outset, but I got props for him now) is here on slashdot is here

      jaz

      --
      Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)
    4. Re:IEEE Definition by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2
      So my (classic) question still stands. Is there such thing as random?

      Well, given that "random" is entirely a matter of perception, there really can be no platonic-ideal of randomness. Reality simply is what it is, and everything that happens, happens for one reason or another whether there's someone there to see it or not. It's essentially the same as the "tree falls in the woods" question*.

      Are we destined for our fate? Or do we choose our paths?

      Yes. (ha ha) The way I look at it, we choose our own paths, but when all is said and done we can only chooseone path. The whole question of predestination brings up (again) the matter of perception... Personally, I lean more towards the "free will" view, as the "fate" one always seems to imply some omniscient entity guiding the outcome and I find that notion silly.

      Here's irony for you: Are we destined to prove whether or not random exists?

      I think if we can prove that we exist, we can safely assume randomness does too.

      As for 17 being the most random number, does that mean it is the most likely (or even the least likely) result when observing random events? Does that not make it un-random? (Random being an equal likelihood of any result.)

      Hey, if a quick survey of google says 17 is more random than any other number, surely it has to be true! I think the notion of a "Most Random Number" is meant to be oxymoronic.

      * in truth, a tree falling where nothing can hear it makes no sound at all, as "sound" implies the presence of a sensory device/organ designed to detect vibrations in whatever medium they are in contact with. No ears, no sound. Philosophers always try to exploit over-broad language.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  15. my clone army by dmd · · Score: 2, Funny

    Evil Scientist: My clone army will soon be complete!

    Secret Agent: Not so fast, Doctor Ditto!

  16. Computing in a coffee cup by SmackCrackandPot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Reading this article reminds me of the Improbability Drive in the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.

    The last problem to be solved was to find a perfect source of randomness, which the galaxies best professors had been trying to solve for decades as whole departments had been built up on trying to solve this problem. Then one day, a brilliant student solves the problem by realizing a a cup of hot coffee provides this data. He is immediately awarded the highest Physics prize in the universe, and immediately lynched by his peers for being a smart-ass.

  17. Kinda sorta. by blair1q · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Couple of thoughts:

    This isn't quite the same thing as having randomly perturbed input thresholds, which is how neurons work. And, as anyone who's tried it knows, neurons are only about 95% efficient in determining the correct result. It takes a lot of logical processing on top of the neural bitwise decisionmaking to distill the 95% to the 99% or so correct answer rate that constitutes "intelligent thought".

    And, they'd better look into real-world noise margin requirements for thresholding electrical switching decisions, or "chaotic" is all their output will ever be.

  18. I did something like this years ago by perspex · · Score: 2, Funny

    Basically, I invented a simple but mind-blowingly fast algorithm for solving complex equations:

    #include <stdlib.h>
    double solve(void) {
    return rand()
    }

    Sometimes, it will give you a root of x^2 - 7; other times, value of pi or phi. Once it even gave me the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything!

  19. Re:Not chaotic? (Yes, you can control chaos) by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Informative

    Chaotic systems are actually quite controlloable in a very interesting way. The key property that makes a chaotic system so unpredictable is divergence -- if two copies of the system differ by delta, that delta will grow exponentially in time (doubling according to a coefficient call the Lyapunov coefficient). Yet, the divergence is never arbitrary. Instead, the divergence in chaotic systems happen within a space called the strange attractor - the diverging trajectories stay within in the attractor zone even as the split from each other.

    If you map the strange attractor and nudge the system are the right point of the cycle, you can push the system into what ever mode of behaviro you want. Although you cannot predict the longterm behavior of the chaotic system, you can perturb it periodicaly to stabiize it or rapidlly shift its behavior. Scientists are looking at how to use this chaotic control theory to control unstable systems such as ultrahigh power lasers, manuerable jet aircraft, and heart tissue.

    The key controlling a chaotic system is to understand how the chaotic system diverges (the shape of the strange attractor) and use that knowledge to deftly inject perturbations at just the right moment.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  20. Windows user? by budhaboy · · Score: 2, Funny
    But it certainly has potential--even though many people feel that existing computers are quite chaotic enough already.

    or is he just the 'friend' of this guy?

  21. Obligatory D&D joke by spellraiser · · Score: 5, Funny

    The only thing I want to know is; are these computers Chaotic Lawful, Chaotic Neutral, or Chaotic Evil?

    --
    I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
    1. Re:Obligatory D&D joke by rsw · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhhh... Chaotic _GOOD_, not lawful.

      Lawful is on the same axis as Chaotic.

      { Lawful, Neutral, Chaotic }
      { Good, Neutral, Evil }

      I'm a huge dork.

    2. Re:Obligatory D&D joke by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd rate the joke as Chaotic Awful.

  22. chaotic? i don't think so... by Sebastopol · · Score: 4, Interesting

    this is "self modifying hardware", similar to "self modifying code". but is it fair to call it chaotic? In a chaotic system, the process remains the same but the output varies. In this situation, both the process and the data change over time. Or can a chaotic system also be one where the rules change as well?? Experts??

    personally, SMC is a bitch to debug, I can't imaging how one would begin to debug THIS beast...

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  23. Model of computation by unknown_host · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But this would still be limited to the confines of the Church-Turing hypothesis. Fundamentally, it doesn't seem to be a stronger model of computation. Even quantum computing is a different model than the Turing machine, however it is not yet known if it is strictly stronger. At a first glance, this just seems to be a novel way of making reconfigurable circuits. But can it beat the Turing machine? I doubt it...

  24. Re:Anyone with the misfortune of reading my source by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ...is already well versed in chaotic computing.

    You wish.

    To protect the perpetrator I won't mention his name, but here's a warning about people developing off in a corner, by themseleves rather than collaborating with their peers.

    I worked for two years at one job before learning there was another programmer (besides the other two I worked with.) The group I worked with remained within the same office or no more than a room away and we frequently bounced ideas off each other, creating some damn fine products (if I do say so myself.) The other guy, actually a personal friend of the director, always worked on his own. When he retired and I inherited his work I was truly pissed off. The code was horrible and reflected the skills of a novice (a poor one at that) and was littered with GOTO statements and demonstrated a severly retarded understanding of documentation, coding style (i.e. 3000 line for-next loop with GOTOs out and back in again) and zero knowledge of library functions, which would have cut hundreds of lines from the code. (Since the code would be replaced by a full system a year later, all I had to do was just keep it running and fix corrupt data, which was frequent.)

    You might get the impression that the lone coder was chaotic, but you would have it backward. His procedure was orderly, straight forward, rarely diverging from his approach or skill set. The three (of which I was part) was Chaos -- we thought outside the box, tried things, introduced new approaches to old problems. Where we once would say, "no, that can't be done", we went to, "Yes, that can be done, and has, furhter, it's more useful and versitile than you ever imagined."

    Seize chaos, it's your real friend.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  25. You might also consider... by Lendrick · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...adding a good/evil axis to computer alignment. Because otherwise, if you get a chaotic computer, how do you know whether it's chaotic good, chaotic neutral, or chaotic evil?

    Better to have a computer with a good heart and a general distrust of authority than one which wants to enslave everyone and reduce the world to a desolate wasteland.

  26. Re:chaotic? i don't think so... by slackerboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is the hardware side that uses chaos, not the software. Details are sketchy in the article, but I believe they are looking at chaotic systems and tweaking the hardware to use different regions of behavior depending on the desired use.

    And, yes, there are reasons we're not all programming in LISP.

    --
    Things to do today: See list of things to do yesterday
  27. quantum post by kwoff · · Score: 4, Funny

    We're already seeing quantum computing, as this story is in two places simulataneously. Remember, you saw it here first, and second, on Slashdot.

  28. Re: This sounds like a joke by bomblaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dude
    Did you check the date on that Economist article.

  29. Re:1+1 = null by baudilus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Think of it this way:

    Imagine you could watch two one-hour long TV shows simultaneously superimposed onto each other on the same TV (and understand both shows seperately.) Now imagine you have have two TV with the same capability. Now you can watch four shows in one hour. This is the essence of this computing theory: you can do more calculations in less time but not in the normal computing sense. I prefer to think of standard binary computing as a direct derivative of quantum computing, much like velocity is a derivative of acceleration.

    The chaos theory simply describes the elements that are involved in forming these calculations. This would directly affect a computer's ability to multitask - instead of a data flow going in a straight line and different parts of the processor performing different operations on it, a function could be self-contained and processed recursively, with the data passing through the same matrix, while that matrix changes itself to perform different functions. In theory, this could take far less ticks, increasing speeds exponentially. Add more matrices to this and you can see the benefits.

    The idea behind his work is to be able to control the input into these "chaotic elements" thus producing a predictable and reproducable output. A true 'quantum leap', if you will. This would be a significant jump in computing technology, skipping over "trinary" computing altogether.

    Humans don't think in straight lines, why should computers? Then again, I could just be reading it wrong.

  30. That's not how it goes. by Annirak · · Score: 4, Informative
    The real explanation is here

    Then, one day, a student who had been left to sweep up the lab after a particulary unsuccessful party found himself reasoning this way:

    If, he thought to himself, such amachine is a virtual impossibility, then it must logically be a finite improbability. So all I have to do in order to make one, is to work out exactly how improbable it is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give it a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn it on!

    He did this, and was rather startled to discover that he had managed to create the long sought after golden Infinite Improbability generater out of thin air.

    It startled him even more when just after he was awarded the Galactic Institute's Prize for Extreme Cleverness he got lynced by a rampaging mob of respectable physicists who had finally realized that the one thing they really couldn't stand was a smartass.

  31. Appears to be a Star Wars reference ... by giftedtiger74 · · Score: 2, Funny

    From the Lockheed Martin Analog computing link "A picture of a GEDA center showing (from the left) an R-2 unit, two L-2 units, (maybe) an N-2 unit behind the woman, (maybe) two L-1 units and another recording unit between the women."

    1. Re:Appears to be a Star Wars reference ... by daeley · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit into Anchorhead and have its memory flushed.... and while you're at it, take the L1 units, the L2 units, that N2 unit behind Aunt Beru...no, don't get Aunt Beru's memory flushed, take the N2 unit that's behind her--never mind, I'll do it myself!"

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  32. Re:Oh yeah?? by sketerpot · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps because they were hoping to do some gradual revisions and eventually reach Windows 3.14?

  33. Missing the point entirely by IncohereD · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, digital computers may use analog signals, but the basic operations of a digital computer (AND, OR, XOR, etc.) are fundamentally digital operations. They quantize the analog signals into 1s and 0s, and output quantized signals based on those digital values (of course, with some amount of analog error).

    An analog computer does no such thing. If it wants to add two signals, it adds them. In analog. You can do integrals and derivations in analog as well, amongst other things.

    A digital computer may have to use analog signals to operate on some level, but that does not make it an analog computer.

  34. Re:Not chaotic? (Yes, you can control chaos) by ndogg · · Score: 2, Funny

    manuerable jet aircraft

    Eww, why would someone want to fly in that?

    --
    // file: mice.h
    #include "frickin_lasers.h"
  35. Read a book about Leeches?! by barks · · Score: 2, Funny

    They have also made a logic element out of a pair of leech neurons (nerve cells from blood-sucking worms) placed on a microchip.

    I remember for my System's Analyst and Design class my teacher mentioning how they were already wiring organic matter to computer chips. One unfortunate student who made the great mistake to vocalized his complete shock over this, from which this cynical and suggestive instructor bluntly responded to him, "Read a book!" Mind you this particular student had the appearance of a squeegee-kid roadie.

    Although I was not the one told off by the teacher that I should enlighten myself,I am very amazed over the use of organic matter is even possible. Are they running some sort of voltage through these fibers? Do they obviously react differently than say a copper wire, and why? Will it be just a matter of time before some medical students at a frat party get bored and hook up a cadaver's brain up to laptop to string search and download what the deceased use to listen to?

  36. Re:Not chaotic? (Yes, you can control chaos) by S3D · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's too narrow definition of chaotic system, because Lyaponov coeefficients and strange attractors realted only to dynamical systems wich have a toplogy - that is some underlying continuity. However there is another type of object which exhibit chaotic behavior, though only in infinite areas - discrete objects like cellular automata, which have no notion of divergence, and discussed more in term of complexity This chatic computing idea is in fact related to cellular automata. Cellular automata is a perfect example simple, completly deterministic discrete system, which behavior very difficalt and sometimes impossible to predict

  37. Read the paper by TheSync · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is a paper that describes using chaotic gates as "universal gates".

  38. This sounds like nothing more than an FPGA by skintigh2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    with multiple images. Years ago a company I was working at had an FPGA that could store 4 images and switch between them every clock cycle, no chaos required.

    For those who don't know, an FPGA is a flexible computer chip. Imagine a motherboard full 100,000s or millions of solid state "glue logic" gates that could be re-aranged by little elves repeatedly, and that's an FGPA, but larger, and less expensive. You could build an 8088, then a DSP, then a fast FFT, a converter, then a crypto processor, whatever. Creative uses them on some soundblasters so the hardware (yes, the hardware) can be upgraded ith more features in the future. On mine they added a few digital effects and the ability to handle another few hundred MIDI voices.

  39. Another big problem: Article Hopelessly Vague by IceAgeComing · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are some problems with the article: it makes claims that aren't backed up. So what's new on slashdot? Anyway, here are the gory details from my point of view. The original source reference appears to suffer from the same problem.

    The gist of the new idea is a clever way to create a special type of gate whose dynamical threshold value can be modified to implement one of several possible logic gates. An interesting idea, but not computationally revolutionary. These gates would still implement the same chips we use today.

    Now, the article goes on to claim that there is a wonderful new horizon of modifiable computation. I see a lot of words and no details. How are those modifiable threshold levels in these gates stored, anyway? Don't tell me it's with something like a flip-flop. It would be asinine to need 6-8 gates to store each bit of the modifiable threshold value for one "chaotic" gate.

    Also, there's the small problem that we can MODEL any type of strange new computational paradigm and have been able to for years. We're no closer to a replacement for Turing-style computation than we were decades ago. I've seen one paper about Analog computers being able to compute some esoteric set of functions that discrete computers can't touch, but I haven't seen anyone explain how this helps in any useful way.