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Intel To Make A Greener Microprocessor

crem_d_genes writes "According to the San Jose Mercury News, Intel is planning microprocessors that have a reduced amount of lead in them (reportedly 95% lower). It's about time a company started this - good job - and let's hope other tech companies take the hint. While many places in the US have banned the disposal of computer parts, there have been unintended consequences of the eco-friendly laws. Many 'recycled' computers currently get shipped overseas where parts eventually make their ways into the hands of workers who usually 'burn' the parts to get rid of plastic and recover small amounts of valuable metals. In the process they are exposed to the toxic compounds that are released. In other cases, lead makes its way into drinking water."

229 comments

  1. So, wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Superman will now be able to see what's going on inside my CPU?

    Haha, just kidding, I own an AMD.

    1. Re:So, wait... by the_thunderbird · · Score: 1

      Yeah but what if I like purple?

    2. Re:So, wait... by alnapp · · Score: 1

      Unless the green is Kryptonite

    3. Re:So, wait... by Marvelicious · · Score: 1

      Now how am I supposed to use my old chipset as a boat-anchor?

      --
      Send whiskey and fresh horses!
  2. Reduced lead? by mkaiser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Excellent idea.
    Next step: reduce power consumption.

    1. Re:Reduced lead? by Specialist2k · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Next step: reduce power consumption

      This is definitely a necessity as the major ecological impact of modern consumer and IT products occurs during the utilization phase and not during the production or disposal phase.

    2. Re:Reduced lead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about the environmentalists who are pressuring Intel to change processor design focus on the big issues of lead use rather than the couple of grams or milligrams in the microprocessor. For example, how much lead is in the monitor glass? Over a kilogram probably. Or how much is released in mining or burning coal? Or used in radiation shielding in nuclear plants ;) Surely they have a priority list rather than a shotgun (another lead user) approach.

    3. Re:Reduced lead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Smoke much crack, or just to unwind on the weekends.

      Semicondoctor fabs have a truly collosal ecological footprint, good thing what they make is worth more than gold. They consume tremendous amounts of water, and energy, to say nothing of the photoresists, acid baths and slag from the parts of the ores that aren't used. There are no doubt a log of computers, but you want to make an impact invent a lightbulb that costs the same or less, can be adapted to all the same fixtures, lasts longer, uses half as much energy, and get everyone to use it.

    4. Re:Reduced lead? by Lord+of+Ironhand · · Score: 1

      In fact, I feel this should be the *first step*. There are huge amounts of lead in many other products, making this a relatively small improvement when viewing "the big picture". However, power requirements have skyrocketed since the computer became a common household device. Laptop tech shows it's possible, why not apply that in desktops as well?

    5. Re:Reduced lead? by Count+Karnstein · · Score: 2, Insightful
      There are huge amounts of lead in many other products, making this a relatively small improvement when viewing "the big picture".

      Indeed, just read the "unintended consequences" article:

      A typical computer processor and monitor contain five to eight pounds of lead, and other heavy metals such as cadmium, mercury and arsenic.

      Five to eight pounds; that's quite a lot of CPU's! And they aren't even made entirely out of lead.

    6. Re:Reduced lead? by witcomb · · Score: 2, Funny

      This was the first thing I thought of as well, it is completely insane the amount of power some cpu's are using now. Granted, there are chips which are efficient, but there should be steps taken by all those designing hardware to decrease the power consumption. I mean all components in a computer, hard drives, video cards, etc. But not all blame should be placed on the hardware companies. Those designing software could be more efficient in their usage of the processor. I think most people have become accustom to the fact that cpu's are powerful enough to do whatever we want and if they aren't we will just wait a couple months. I guess things are moving so fast now it is hard for anyone to keep up.

    7. Re:Reduced lead? by mwood · · Score: 1

      How much lead is there in a microprocessor anyway? A slab of highly purified silicon, a few traces of indium...what else?

      I would be more worried about the much larger amount of copper in a PC. It's a nasty pollutant, too.

    8. Re:Reduced lead? by Confuse+Ed · · Score: 2
      re: "How much lead is there in a microprocessor anyway?"
      from http://www.intel.com/research/silicon/leadfree.htm :
      Q1. Do Intel products contain lead?
      A1. Yes, most of our products contain lead in very small amounts. The use of lead in very small quantities in electronic products is ubiquitous. Lead is found throughout electronic components, component packaging, printed circuit boards, and other products. Intel estimates that approximately 90% of all electronic components contain some lead -- mostly due to the use of solder that contains lead. For a desktop computer with a CRT monitor, Intel's products contribute <1% of the total lead in the computer system. A typical Intel microprocessor contains approximately 0.2 grams of lead. An Intel motherboard contains roughly 2-3 grams of lead. For comparison purposes, a house key contains about the same amount of lead (2-3 g) as an Intel motherboard.
  3. Good job by SinistarJAB · · Score: 2, Funny

    Good job, now I can scrounge around dumps for old components!

  4. Greener Chips? by FS1 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hmm.. It seems Intel wants to bolster their image as of late. I guess AMD has them shaking in their boots.

    --
    A Fatal OE Exception has occurred, Sig will now reboot.
    1. Re:Greener Chips? by DeathPenguin · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yeah, it would be like Hummer promoting SUVs that have very little lead, but still get 8MPG.

    2. Re:Greener Chips? by sotonboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I suspect this has more to do with complying with the law than a desire to become more green. EU law requires Pb use to be reduced imminently. If they really wanted to become more green then power consumption would be a more profitable place to start. As would reducing the evil chemicals (and power) used in manufacture.

    3. Re:Greener Chips? by joe_bruin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      actually, they are required to do this if they intend to keep selling chips in europe and japan. a recent group of laws in the EU (or is it some individual EU countries, i'm not sure) and Japan require that consumer electronics be nearly lead-free, both in the final product and in the manufacturing process. this includes PCB's and integrated circuits. most manufacturing operations, and any electronics makers that want to do business outside of north america, have been transitioning to lead-free products recently.

      intel is meeting its upcoming legal requirements. the real win here (for intel), is turning something they are legally obligated to do into an "environmentally friendly" pr victory. the news media seems to be eating it up.

    4. Re:Greener Chips? by Beeswarm · · Score: 1
      Have you ever seen this warning?

      This product is known by the state of California to contain lead. Wash hands after using.

      This warning was printed on the front of the box my mouse came in. It isn't just the Europeans.

    5. Re:Greener Chips? by MrIrwin · · Score: 1

      There are **other** initiatives that promote the reduction of power consumption in PC's. Note that the average consumption of a CPU in a typically used desktop PC can be quite low, how low depends more on the OS than the chip design.

      --

      And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    6. Re:Greener Chips? by MrIrwin · · Score: 1

      It is all EU countries, and I think some none EU countries as well.

      --

      And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    7. Re:Greener Chips? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      So where does that leave AMD? Do they already meet the new requirements?

    8. Re:Greener Chips? by just-a-stone · · Score: 1

      each EU member has to merge the new restrictions (less cadmium, less lead, forced recycling,...) into their national law until 2005. it really starts on 1.1.2006 and concerns reduction of lead, mercury, cadmium & other heavy metal.
      in summer 2001, philips semiconductors, infineon & some other committed to prduce nearly unleaded chips.

      more info about EU RoHS (english version)

    9. Re:Greener Chips? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See Nortel.

      They actually produce digital phones without lead in them (and have for years).

  5. question by weekendwarrior1980 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why does x86 processors consume so much power? What is it about other processors like powerpc and transmeta that makes it more energy friendly?

    1. Re:question by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why does x86 processors consume so much power?

      All don't. It's a marchitecture thing, Intel wanted high frequencies no matter what. As a result we have processors which do less work per clock cycle, huge pipelines and high power consumption.

      All x86 processors don't have this issue. Via's C3 is miles away from Intel's Pentium 4. AMD is also somewhat better than Intel, and Intel's own Banias (Pentium M) is also rather low power.

      The problem is, Intel's been brainwashing the public that YOU WANT A COMPUTER WITH MANY MANY GIGAHERTZ for so long now that the're more or less stuck with high power consumption until they have time to create a whole new architecture.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    2. Re:question by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      I'd fathom that Intel would love for their chips to use less power, but they are more concerned w/ the Mhz race. So when they design their latest chips, power/heat are thought about, but aren't given as much concern as Trasmeta may give those issues. Notice how the newest Transmeta chip is only about 1 Ghz. Also notice how long that Intel has been at speeds greater than 1 Ghz (~3 years). So these companies like Transmeta spend a lot more time looking into power/heat issues, and it shows. They seriously lag behind Intel and AMD, but they provide chips to a niche market; small, embedded systems. The chips are plenty powerful for certain tasks, and people can put em damn neare anywhere.

    3. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      A large fraction of the transistors in a x86 processor are there allow backward compatibility with all the previous x86's, down to the 8086 processor.

    4. Re:question by krosk · · Score: 5, Informative
      The problem is, Intel's been brainwashing the public that YOU WANT A COMPUTER WITH MANY MANY GIGAHERTZ for so long now that the're more or less stuck with high power consumption until they have time to create a whole new architecture.

      Actually, intel is moving away from measuring chip speed by GHZ. Wired just had this article about it.

      Basically, Intel is a couple years behind AMD who is now using numbers like 2300+ to describe chip speed.

    5. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new here.

    6. Re:question by ciroknight · · Score: 5, Interesting

      AMD may be using numbers like 2300+ to describe the speed, but in the end, when a person goes to their local Walmart, or Dell.com, or whereever they go to buy their next PC, they're only going to look as far as "hmm, 2300+ is bigger than 2200+". They're not even going to know what the actual speed difference is, because they don't care to know, just as long as what they're getting is faster. GHz IMO is at least a little more honest when it comes to Intel Processors because the IPC (instructions per clock) shouldnt change all that much from a 2.0GHz CPU to a 2.2 GHz CPU, whereas the instructions per clock on a 2600+ CPU can be drastically different from that of a 2700+ (in fact, it can be a whole different core). Also true for the Pentium 4's as well. Damn, we just need a standard... someone, anyone, PLEASE!?

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    7. Re:question by tarunthegreat · · Score: 0

      Although it's a good thing they're moving away from the More GHz is Better! philosophy, their new branding will be just awful, and cause consumers a LOT of pain.

      Hey the 3200 series computers cost $800, how come the 2100 series computers cost $1500?
      And then the inevitable: "That's all dandy, but what's the clock speed?". I think they'd be better off keeping things simple:

      Category I/Fast/Home-SOHO use
      Category II/SuperFast/Medium-Large Business
      Category III/!#@$!#@/Industrial Strength
      Category IV/Only visible after smoking up...

      Okay, maybe I've confirmed that I'm not getting any jobs in marketing, but seriously, they can come up with something better than the esiting proposal...

    8. Re:question by weekendwarrior1980 · · Score: 1

      So is it just a matter of more transistors = more power? I was thinking more in the lines of shortcoming of the x86 architecture, that makes it structurally inefficient. I am not trashing intel folks here, my prof told me that Intel probably had some of the best engineers in the world working on x86 stuff and the evolution of it has been nothing sort of remarkable.

    9. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel is just preparing for the day when nearly every computer is cheaper that $500 and even the idiots have figured out that Mhz doesn't really matter anymore.

    10. Re:question by sfe_software · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, intel is moving away from measuring chip speed by GHZ. Wired just had this article about it.

      Basically, Intel is a couple years behind AMD who is now using numbers like 2300+ to describe chip speed.


      The difference here is this: AMD's numbers were intended for comparison with a P4; for example, an Athlon 2600+ is supposed to be roughly equal to a P4-2.6 GHz. And to AMD's credit, most benchmarks showed that they were quite generous to Intel.

      Intel designed the P4 to do less work per clock, but at a much higher potential clock. Thus even a P-III would out-do a P4 for the same clock frequency. Whether this was a marketing decision or not, I don't know...

      Point being, Intel is getting away from clock-speed ratings for different reasons. I personally think that it's because demand has gone down significantly. Computers are today more than fast enough for almost everything the average user wants to do. Even I don't really need a faster machine at this point, and I write software...

      So the market isn't going to be driven by faster CPUs. Most of my family won't buy a new PC based solely on that. But if the new machine was smaller, quieter, and more power-efficient, that might be incentive to upgrade (again, even I would probably go for that if it were at least as fast as my current PC).

      It's all about market demand. For the last few years, consumers demanded faster CPU speeds; this has changed, and the smarter companies in this industry are changing as well.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    11. Re:question by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      I'd fathom that Intel would love for their chips to use less power, but they are more concerned w/ the Mhz race...

      I agree to an extent, but you have to realize how much thought must go into power consumption when you increase speed and transistor count. To get a higher clock frequency, and to pack more transistors on the CPU, you must lower the power consumption overall quite significantly.

      The difference, of course, is that Intel's market is mostly performance machines where power consumption is secondary (IOW, it's not so much Intel that makes this a secondary concern, but the market).

      Transmeta's market is all about power consumption; thus, their CPUs are designed to be more efficient, and slower.

      AMD is more toward Intel in my opinion, though they've gotten a lot better (remember when the original Athlons were known to have major heat issues?)

      To sum it up, I agree with you for the most part, but power consumption is something they all have to deal with quite heavily. That final balance, however, is mostly about what their target market wants.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    12. Re:question by MrIrwin · · Score: 3, Informative
      Benchmarks. In effect AMD's 2300+ like rating is based on independently audited benchmarking which is then normalised to the Intel CPU speed.

      IT purchasing is notoriously independent of standards, and it is not just clock speeds. We see jokes such as 500W PC speakers (supplied with a 20VA transformer) and the ubiquitous use of 'X' (4X AGP, 56X CDR).

      Standards exist but, apparently, buying a PC is more of an emotial experience than a scientific one!

      --

      And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    13. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, said customer is thinking in terms of the response of the computer, and his/her user experience. To claim that it's just 'must have big number' is ridiculous and demeaning. People know 'the big number' means faster (from first-hand experience. The bigger-number chips historically have been faster).

      Anyway. Back to the rant about ignorant regular people...

    14. Re:question by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sadly, Intel isn't Apple. Intel's never been about marketing their product based on how well it's completed a benchmark; just how fast it can clock matters to most consumers because it's a big, flashy number, and big flashy numbers are quiet distracting.

      Apple got it right by using Benchmarks to sell their product, even if the benchmarks are strange and deceptive. Hey, lying, cheating, and stealing are what got Microsoft to the top, everyone's gotta play a little dirty.

      And yes, buying a PC should be an emotional experience, as well as a scientific one. PC's, like Cars, are where us humans now spend a great deal of our lives. (nerds/geeks especially). We need to have some level of attachment to the machine we're using just so that it doesn't drive us mad.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    15. Re:question by kdart · · Score: 1

      How about "bogomips"? ;-)

      "I got more bogmips than you! "
      "Yeah! prove it!"
      "watch me 'cat /proc/cpuinfo'!"
      "Oooh... duuuude...."

      --

      --
      The early bird catches the worm. The worm that sleeps late lives to see another day.
    16. Re:question by zhenlin · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Processors should be labelled in bogomips instead!

    17. Re:question by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, while they were clearly intended for comparison with Intel, AMD said they were for a Thunderbird (IIRC) of equivalent megahertz. And the benchmarks were often less than generous, though the newer Athlon 64 seems to be doing much better than equivalently rated Prescotts.

      Anyways, if Intel can get away from clock-speed ratings, I hope it can get away from 100 watt processors. Where are the quiet and efficient Pentium M desktop systems? Some companies are designing motherboards for them, but there isn't anything easily available. I'm typing this on a 1.3GHz Celeron system (the 1GHz VIA C3 was just a little too slow, crippled by its tiny cache and weak FPU...I'm using the same near-silent heatsink setup as before, and getting 38 degrees versus 32), but a Pentium M would be ideal for a quiet but powerful general-purpose system.

    18. Re:question by bhtooefr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      8080 processor, actually. The 8086 is a 16-bit extended version of the 8085, which is an enhanced 8080 meant as an answer to Zilog and their Z80, and the 8080 and 8085 should be considered the only 8-bit x86s. I didn't include the 8008, because I don't know if the 8080 is code-compatible with it. If so, the x86 family should also include the 8008.

    19. Re:question by sfe_software · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think we are seeing this trend a bit more than before. Where a few years ago, speed was the all-important marketing factor (consumers wanted faster CPUs), these days computers are fast enough for most.

      Look at a typical HP or Dell (or even e-Machines) people buy these days. My cousin's HP Pavilion has a DVD+/-R, CD-RW, 80 GB disk, fast P4 etc -- yet is a very quiet and small machine. There's a shroud over the CPU leading to a case fan (there is also a separate CPU and PSU fan; some Gateways from a couple years ago *replaced* the CPU and/or PSU fans with such a shroud setup).

      Yet it's very quiet, and I believe the fans are even running at a lower voltage than normal (they kick fast at first on power-up, and quickly slow down to a very quiet speed).

      Why? Because these days, in my opinion, people are more apt to upgrade to get a smaller, quieter, more efficient PC than a faster one. Their current PC probably does all they need as far as speed/RAM/disk space is concerned. And unless you're playing the latest and greatest 3D games, video performance makes little difference from low to high end these days (my geForce was top of the line in its day; now you can't even buy a slower/crappier card. Yet it's sufficient).

      I think the market is driving the industry in that general direction -- quieter, smaller and more efficient PCs, that are plenty fast (rather than "fastest available").

      I would personally love to see the Pentium M processors start to appear in desktops, which is something I hadn't considered before. Or even just more efficient desktop processors in general. But I do believe the industry is moving in that direction, and we'll be seeing quieter and more energy efficient machines in the next few years (notice that even today, flat-panel monitors are becoming standard even on low-end machines).

      Just wait - I believe that within a couple of years, ads for Dell, etc, will be pushing things like noise level, energy efficiency, and small form-factor, touting GHz/MB/GB a bit less...

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    20. Re:question by mgoodman · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the GPU manufacturers as well. FX, MX, Ti, WTF, Pro, Se, WTF.

      --
      01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00101110
    21. Re:question by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      GHz IMO is at least a little more honest when it comes to Intel Processors because the IPC (instructions per clock) shouldnt change all that much from a 2.0GHz CPU to a 2.2 GHz CPU, whereas the instructions per clock on a 2600+ CPU can be drastically different from that of a 2700+ (in fact, it can be a whole different core).

      And therein lies the major problem with GHz-based speed comparisons. As long as you're dealing with the same core (which is not the same as processor name i.e. "Pentium 4",) the speed will scale rather linearily with core speed (ignoring bus speeds etc.)

      But you simply can't compare an N-GHz processor with core X to an N-GHz processor with core Y. The problem is, there really is no objective measurement system, as of yet, anyway.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    22. Re:question by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Informative

      8080 and 8085 are source-compatible with 8086 but as far as i know not binary compatible. the same with 8008.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    23. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 8088 is an 8086 with an exception of having only an 8-bit external bus instead of a full 16-bit.

      It is true the 8080 8085 are source code (8080 assembly is valid for a x86) but it is not binary compatable.

    24. Re:question by dildatron · · Score: 1

      you are a dork and need to get out more.

      --


      If you had nuts on your chin, would they be chin nuts?
    25. Re:question by dildatron · · Score: 1

      I agree. While there will always be a need for more computing horsepower, consumer PC purchases in the near future will be largely based on size, style, and noise, and processor horsepower will be a secondary concern.

      It is similar to the muscle car days of the 1960's and 70's - everyone was wanting more power, more speed. They got what they wanted, but there was a sacrifice of handling, fuel consumption, etc. Then we saw a shift in the 80's and 90's to the econoboxes. Now for many consumers, the look at styling and comfort first, and engine size later. And even our big engines are much more reliable, clean, and efficient that their 70's counterparts.

      --


      If you had nuts on your chin, would they be chin nuts?
    26. Re:question by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Uh there are plenty of standards, pick the ones you like. Sheesh.

      For the average joe, a 2600+ would be faster than a 2500+. And the ratio is really about 2600/2500 for most things, so it's a good enough measure for Joe to use to figure if the difference is worth paying for. My 2500+ Barton at home is actually about 2.5/1.8 times faster than my office P4 1.8GHz for openssl, bzip and other stuff which I use, so it's a pretty good comparison against a P4, even if AMD claims it's relative to their Athlon Thunderbird.

      Basically the techies would be using the benchmarks they care about to measure performance (e.g. zip, video encoding etc), the 2200+ stuff is good enough for the average joe.

      You're must be in some other category. I probably wouldn't be happy if we all had to use the single standard you'd be happy with.

      --
    27. Re:question by Technician · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ever since the more watts = more power advertising race started, people started looking at just watts, not how it was measuered. In the beginning, true RMS watts per channel was the standard. It included at what amount of distortion of a sine wave was permitted such as 1%, 0.1%, 0.005%, etc. into a specified resistive load such as 4 or 8 ohms.

      Some smart advertiser found if they take all the channels of a 2 or 4 channel amplifier, ignore low distortion (square wave clipped output is ok) list the power delivered at the peak voltage, not RMS and specify an overload condition of a couple ohms and high supply voltage, then a 12 watt per channel amplifier could be advertised as a 250 watt peak total power amplifier. So would you buy the 25 watt/channel amplifier or the 250 watt amplifier? The truth is the 25 watt amplifier is twice the power (real power) of the 250 watt amplifier. I used to demonstrate this with dummy loads, sine wave generator, and scope in my old shop. The 250 watt amplifier in the demonstration did not have an inverter power supply. It clipped at what ever the supply voltage was. The 25 watt amplifier did have an inverter and clipped at close to 20 volts peak to peak. Customers understood the demonstration and would then seek buying advice. I then pointed out the 25 watt amplifier was fused at 12 amps and the 250 watt amplifier was fused at 8 amps. How can a 250 watt amplifier put out it's rated power when the fuse blows at (12volts X 8 amps = 96 watts) Who wants massive clipping?

      Today's chips suffer the same fate. High Megahertz does not fix all the bottlenecks that appear. Parallel instructions do more per clock. This is not measured in Megahertz. Pipelining takes more clocks to get an instruction done. This is not measured in Megahertz. Predictive branching; same thing. In terms of real processing power, the amount of power used per transister per cycle is way down. In the days of the PC and PC XT, the chips did not use fans or heatsinks. There were only a few hundred K transisters clocked at 4.77 - 8 Megahertz. Power dissipation was somewhere in the 5 watt range. Now you are talking several million transistors clocked at several thousands of Megahertz (Gigahertz) or in simple terms, almost 1,000 times faster using only 10-20 times the power and the power is divided by many times the number of transisters. The effeciency in real terms of transistor performance has gone way up. Using the current technology, if you wanted a PC (8088 CPU) it could be clocked at 1 GHZ at under a watt of power. It could be clocked at 4.77 Magahertz at just a few miliwatts. Both would be fanless heatsink-less solutions. Other than display, and drives, a solar power PC XT is possible if you can survive with no USB, Windows, GUI, etc. They don't make them as there is no market big enough to tool up to produce them. Even a cell phone now uses more CPU power than an old XT. (at much less power consumption)

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    28. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generally, you're not going to get a 10% speed increase moving from a 2.0GHz CPU to a 2.2GHz CPU because of other factors. It's much more honest to give it a speed rating based on benchmarks.

    29. Re:question by alienw · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't exactly say Apple has better marketing than Intel. Let's see, which one has 3% market share? Which one has the other 97%?

    30. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that the x86 architecture is very complex and old. For example, x86 have a very small number of registers, so the processors need things like register renaming hardware or big caches. x86 chips need millions of transistors to perform the same work that others architectures do with much less.

      There are better, simpler architectures like ARM or SuperH that use much less energy. Yeah, they don't run at 3 GHz... but they use less than 1 watt at 1 GHz.

      x86 is so crapy and old...

  6. So... by scrame · · Score: 4, Funny

    does that mean my processors wont taste like candy anymore? I guess Ill have to go back to eating the paint I chip off my walls.

  7. There not doing it out of the kindness of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. Some countries (Japan) are phasing in laws that chips be made lead free. Otherwise, the can't be sold there. A Pb-free chip only cost 1-3 dollars more than otherwise in my experience... (consumer electronics ASICs)

    1. Re:There not doing it out of the kindness of... by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      I wish these countrys would consider the impact this could have on developing technology. I'm not sure how much lead a cpu has, but 1 square centimeter can't contain that much lead.

    2. Re:There not doing it out of the kindness of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It will be forbidden in the EU, I think, in a year or two.

    3. Re:There not doing it out of the kindness of... by Propagandhi · · Score: 1

      As previously stated the cost increase will be fairly insignificant (otherwise Intel wouldn't be doing it).

      And as for the amount of lead in a CPU being too little to do any serious damage I'll have you know that according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency water with more than 15 parts per billion of lead poses potential health risks. So (let's see if I can divide correctly) 0.000000015% is a health risk. Obviously even if the amount of lead is in the grams or milligrams range it's enough for just 1 cpu to cause serious drinking water risks.

    4. Re:There not doing it out of the kindness of... by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      A Pb-free chip only cost 1-3 dollars more than otherwise in my experience... (consumer electronics ASICs)

      I believe your experience is quite different than designing billion-transistor, ultra-high-clock chips, though. When they make a major structural change (such as material type or die size), it affects all aspects of the process.

      I'm not an engineer, so I don't know how much of an impact this particular change makes, and I don't know if it will increase the ultimate cost at all (who knows - material cost might just go down). I just think that throwing in a new rule (relating to the particular materials used) into the process at such a potentially deep level would cause a lot of changes to be made (ultimately the added cost may be mostly R&D recoup)...

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    5. Re:There not doing it out of the kindness of... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      If Pb is outlawed, only the outlaws will have Pb.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  8. Green friendly? by DeathPenguin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Uhh, is the editor talking about the same company that requires 103W for the latest and greatest processor they have to offer?

    1. Re:Green friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ssshhhhh..... don't bring any extra relavent facts into this. We all know that reducing lead is helpful for the environment, and therefore outweighs anything they changed that might hurt the environment. You aren't trying to use logic in the domain of public opinion are you?!?!

    2. Re:Green friendly? by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Okay, I thought I'd sit back and moderate on this one, but I'm already tired of reading the garbage.

      Ever wonder why Intel's not been cranking out Prescott cored processors that run even faster/hotter? Is it because they couldn't just bolt a jet engine and a copper block to the thing and ship it? No. It's because they're shifting their attention (once again).

      AMD fanboys listen up: Yeah, you guys are winning the strongarm race right now. You've got the faster middle-class processor (upper end desktop/lower- to medium-end server) and Intel knows this quite well. They could scale Prescott very quickly up, but so would come heat, and therefore energy prices.

      Now, lets look at other moves Intel's made lately. They've announced they're going to a PR-rating for selling processors. What sense does this make if they're just going to ramp up their processors even faster clockwise? Why do they need to compare anything except clocks? Well, because AMD is wiping the floor with them, that's why.

      90nm technology has also been undergoing perfection with Prescott, meaning lower voltages, higher yields, less wasted silicion on the wafer.

      Both of these things bring us to the sucecssor to Banias, Dothan. Extremely large cache, 90nm technology, extremely fast CPU. Not only will this be one of the most (energy effecient/clock effecient) chips ever made, it most likely will be the next desktop processor. But, here's the kicker, for them to be able to do this, they need to take a short pause from ramping up their current technology's speed, and moving Dothan over to a bigger mass production line. This is why we find Intel pretty silent right now, and most likely the same with AMD (anticipation; AMD's a very reactionary company).

      So, I'm very sure that this is one of the top priorities sitting on the desks of Intel Engineers, I applaud them for taking every step towards a cleaner environment while making my newest tech gadgets.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    3. Re:Green friendly? by the_womble · · Score: 2, Funny
      AMD fanboys listen up: Yeah, you guys are winning the strongarm race right now

      I am confused: I thought StrongARM was an Intel processor

    4. Re:Green friendly? by Yokaze · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > 90nm technology has also been undergoing perfection with Prescott, meaning lower voltages, higher yields, less wasted silicion on the wafer.

      Not to mention increasing the higher leak current, the possibility to increase the clockrate to 5GHz, and higher power consumption. Oh, the 5GHz was an estimate of Intel. It is their current target for the end of the year. So, no Dothan on the desktop.

      The 3.2GHz Prescott consumes even a fair amount more energy than its 3.2Ghz predecessor.

      > Ever wonder why Intel's not been cranking out Prescott cored processors that run even faster/hotter? Is it because they couldn't just bolt a jet engine and a copper block to the thing and ship it? No.

      No, it is because the mainboards and psu can't deliver the 100A those devices would require. And it is quite a problem to dissipate the heat of such a thing. Remember the new mainboard-layout which shoud cope with that thing? Also an idea of Intel.

      > Why do they need to compare anything except clocks? Well, because AMD is wiping the floor with them, that's why.

      Quite the contrary. AMD has introduced the X+ rating for that reason. The problem is totally self-made. They've developed a design which has a better performance (Banias/Dothan...) at even lower clock speed. Now they have a problem to place that chip against its own products.

      --
      "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
    5. Re:Green friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel are not moving to a PR rating.

      They are giving their processors model numbers. There's quite a big difference.
      The model number is not necesarily related in any way to performance. As such they will still be publishing the clock speed along with the model number.

    6. Re:Green friendly? by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      Not to mention increasing the higher leak current, the possibility to increase the clockrate to 5GHz, and higher power consumption. Oh, the 5GHz was an estimate of Intel. It is their current target for the end of the year. So, no Dothan on the desktop.
      5GHz may be their target, and they may hit/miss it with Prescott, but the fact is, what Prescott is for, has changed. They know as well as we do that this is a totally unacceptable chip for the desktop (except for the extreme high end, gamers, case modders), and likewise, they've made a motherboard format for those communities (Pico and Micro BTX). Prescott will most likely be dismissed internally as a mistake, passed into the Xeon line, where Tejas will pick up later. So, they're still hitting 5GHz, but it's a big whoop, as their desktop processor Dothon will be hitting 6000+ (and only running roughly 3.6Ghz, if my predictions on the scalability of Banias and Dothan hold out) The 3.2GHz Prescott consumes even a fair amount more energy than its 3.2Ghz predecessor.
      If I were Intel, I'd (falsely) argue that the power it uses extra makes it a more reliable chip for a server, and therefore should be there. Companies are going to hate that it's a thermal hogg, but they'll buy because it's Intel, and they've got the best reputation. No, it is because the mainboards and psu can't deliver the 100A those devices would require. And it is quite a problem to dissipate the heat of such a thing. Remember the new mainboard-layout which shoud cope with that thing? Also an idea of Intel.
      In fact, I believe they not only could, but are, delivering more than enough power, although your old 200 Watt would have to say goodnight. Most PC's built by Dell ship with a proprietary atx-like PSU running a measly 220 Watts or so, on the P4 line none-the-less. The power subsystem's there, but using it is more of a risk than anyone wants to take, no?

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    7. Re:Green friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point you neglected is that Intel is much more focused on cost that AMD -- they may be slower and kludgier, but if a Pentium costs half as much to manufacture as an Athlon, Intel will be rolling in the dough.

    8. Re:Green friendly? by sfe_software · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Quite the contrary. AMD has introduced the X+ rating for that reason. The problem is totally self-made. They've developed a design which has a better performance (Banias/Dothan...) at even lower clock speed. Now they have a problem to place that chip against its own products.

      To clarify (and make sure I'm understanding correctly), Intel's "more MHz/GHz is better" marketing approach is presenting a problem to even themselves, much like it did for AMD a couple of years ago. Now that Intel is making more effecient (work done per-clock) processors, like AMD has been doing, simply comparing MHz among even just Intel processors is no longer a good performance measure, and might even make their new line appear slower (again, when comparing only clock-speed numbers).

      It sounds like they're taking a step back from the P4 design, which were slower clock for clock than even their older (PIII) processors, but capable of higher clock speeds; so at the time the MHz myth worked to their advantage, where now it is no longer to their advantage.

      That, and the market (in my opinion) isn't as speed-hungry as it was just a year ago. A quieter, smaller, more energy-efficient PC design is more likely to make the average user upgrade than a faster, beefier PC. Computers are "fast enough" for most people's needs (most of the time even for myself, a programmer and FPS game player).

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    9. Re:Green friendly? by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      Couldn't have said it any better myself. Thanks.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    10. Re:Green friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To clarify (and make sure I'm understanding correctly), Intel's "more MHz/GHz is better" marketing approach is presenting a problem to even themselves, much like it did for AMD a couple of years ago. Now that Intel is making more effecient (work done per-clock) processors, like AMD has been doing, simply comparing MHz among even just Intel processors is no longer a good performance measure, and might even make their new line appear slower (again, when comparing only clock-speed numbers).

      Sorry, but that doesn't clarify anything - You've changed the argument. The great-grandparent post said that AMD was wiping the floor with Intel wrt clockspeed (and this obviously isn't the case). Now you argue that Intel's problem is with itself?

    11. Re:Green friendly? by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      This is a little off topic, but I have recently become quite "fan fatigued" and would absolutely kill for a processor that could just rely on a heatsink. In addition to being quieter, it would be a hell of alot more reliable- I find that fans, even supposedly higher quality brand name ones, are the least reliable component in machines.

      In addition, I am surprised at the lack of implementation of more speed-step like features. I leave my PC on all the time. even when im using it, im usually surfing the web, getting email, IMing, and using other types of low utilization type applications. I probably only need 200mhz or so of that 3Ghz.

      The real movement is only starting now though. Us geeks have been grumbling for the past two years or so about fans and power consumption, but as computers are finding their way into bedrooms, den's, entertainment centers, kitchens, and whatnot, I think we will start to see a continued focus on lower power consumption machines. Not only because people dont want to have turn up the TV to drown out the fan noise in a PC, but as one computers spread like tv's and find their ways into each room in the house, its going to have a noticeable impact on the power bill.

    12. Re:Green friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a G3 iMac. They're fanless, as in truly silent. Even the G4 iMacs have fans that only speed up at higher temps. My fan only runs when burning CD/DVDs.

    13. Re:Green friendly? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "and would absolutely kill for a processor that could just rely on a heatsink"

      "I probably only need 200mhz or so of that 3Ghz"

      Uh then either use an old CPU, or underclock a new CPU and use one of those big copper heatsinks.

      My Barton 2500+ XP came unlocked (I hear the newer ones are locked).

      But if your chips are locked, do what the overclocking people do to unlock their CPUs and then change the multipliers so that you can underclock your CPU. Then do the opposite of the overclockers and drop the core voltage a bit. YMMV.

      Or just get a via c3 or something similar.

      --
    14. Re:Green friendly? by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      Just because most of the time I only use 200mhz, does not mean that that is all I need. There are times when im playing games, compiling, playing mp3's, watching movies, startup/shutdown, and various other times when I do want/need a real processor.

      Is underclocking really the solution? Do you really feel that paying for extra capacity is a solution? Even if you did underclock, how low would you have to go before a heatsink would be sufficient?

      A via c3 might be a suitable alternative, but it appears they top out around 1ghz, which would mean I would have to shell out for only a slight upgrade (its not expensive, but for the same $44 I can get a 2ghz athlon).

    15. Re:Green friendly? by pod · · Score: 1

      I just got a P4 3.2, and I got the Zalman 'flower' HSF for it (CNPS7000A-Cu). Huge sucker, at over a pound and a half, so careful mounting it and moving the machine around. It can easily cool an un-overclocked CPU fan-less (comes with a fan control), although I still run it. It's a large fan, larger than a regular stock CPU cooler, and tops off at some 2500 RPM @ 25dB, so it also gets to cool the chipset, which normally runs about 10 degrees C hotter than the CPU. Check it out.

      --
      "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
    16. Re:Green friendly? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      two machines :one for 24 hour slow stuff.
      one for grunt work.

      The prob with this is if you are compressing movies overnight on the faster but noisier system... You can get quieter fast system, but it is unlikely to be fanless at most budgets.

      --
    17. Re:Green friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats not a bad idea, but my only gripes are that the 'main' machine would be sitting around useless most of the time, and have a high start up cost (in time- I dont want to boot up an XP machine just to do some compiling or play a game). and I wonder if the costs of having two machines running at the same time would eliminate all the cost/power benefits.

      Im not trying to be overly argumentative, but im just trying to point out that there is a real unfilled market for fanless PC's that have a reasonable amount of computing power (~1.7ghz?) but can still be cooled by a heatsink alone.

    18. Re:Green friendly? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      You could put the highpowered machine in suspend on a UPS. Both my home computers are on UPS.

      The main machine isn't sitting around useless. It is sitting around available but unused.

      As for your last paragraph:
      Cheap, fast, good- pick two.

      Maybe Intel will put Pentium-Ms on desktop with notebook power saving features.

      Still, most fast CPUs have millions of "switches". Without reversible computing if you switch lots of them at 1.7GHz you generate heat - this is due to a law of physics and information theory. We don't have reversible computing yet - so if information is lost, you get heat.

      An analogy is if you push something and then make it stop abruptly, you will generate heat, whereas if you push something and make it stop by passing stuff to a reservoir, you generate less heat.

      But that's not easy to do.

      --
  9. Can't dispose of computer parts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    many places in the US have banned the disposal of computer parts

    What are we supposed to do with our old computers, a beowulf cluster?

    1. Re:Can't dispose of computer parts? by corporatewhore · · Score: 1
      well, its hard to justify just throwing them away when you take into account the real cost of the machine (open pit copper mines, etc) and what exactly is involved in these beasts. How about a clearinghouse of some sort, I'll take anyone's old 486 or better boxens in exchange for free bandwidth for the 10^nth supernode ?

      seriously - the third world would love a supply of last year's machines and some tech support to get up on the curve...

      --

      you think it's easy, but you're wrong...

    2. Re:Can't dispose of computer parts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your forgetting two things:
      - some "old 486" boxens are BROKEN, they won't run
      - working old boxens have abysmal MIPS/watt ratios

    3. Re:Can't dispose of computer parts? by corporatewhore · · Score: 0

      make 2 working ones out of a those dead dogs stacked in the closet...hey i'm not offering a solution, just a suggestion...set the rest on fire and push them out in the road ?

      --

      you think it's easy, but you're wrong...

    4. Re:Can't dispose of computer parts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's illeagal to take it to the dump than you'll just have to dump it in the nearest lake.

  10. Reducing waste by jmv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm wondering what would happen if all manufacturers of electronic equipment were required to provide a 5-year warranty on all their products. Anyone think it would reduce the amount of cheap electronic stuff that ends up in the garbage after a week and contributes to pollution?

    1. Re:Reducing waste by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering what would happen if all manufacturers of electronic equipment were required to provide a 5-year warranty on all their products. Anyone think it would reduce the amount of cheap electronic stuff that ends up in the garbage after a week and contributes to pollution?

      I see three problems with this. The more obvious is that the market doesn't want this; otherwise people would buy higher-quality products (at an appropriate and higher price). But many people (possibly most) buy cheaper equipment, be it computers or consumer electronics, and aren't willing to pay for higher quality or a longer warranty.

      In other words, if the market in general wanted higher-quality products worthy of longer warranties, etc, the market can choose this. Consumers would avoid cheaper brands and stick with known, reliable manufacturers. But the majority wants everything cheap (in the US, and from my own observations anyway). Which is why we have so many low-quality products out there ($50 DVD players, $70 TV/VCR combos, etc that likely will fail within a couple of years). The market wants them, else they wouldn't be so common.

      The second problem I have is that this would make it more difficult for a smaller company to enter the market. Even if the new company has a quality product, if they are required to guarantee it for five years, that adds a lot of cost (processing warranty repairs/replacements, maintaining customer records, etc). This probably isn't such a big problem, but is worth mentioning.

      The final problem is that some consumer products are sold to be disposable for other reasons. Most people that I know have been through at least one new cell phone every two years for the last five to ten years. Many people don't plan on their new PC being worth much in a couple of years. New technologies often replace older/current technologies, so the market simply doesn't want a high-quality, guaranteed-for-five-years product that they know will be thrown out in a year or two. It's not worth the extra cost that would be added to the product.

      I don't want the government to require that any TV I buy in 2008 (be it a large-screen plasma, 12-volt for my van, or a 2-inch battery powered TV) have an expensive HDTV tuner and high resolution display, but it was seen as a solution to a problem that (IMO) didn't even exist. Likewise, I also don't want them to require that any cheap electronic device I purchase come with a 5-year warranty, which really won't solve this problem anyway.

      Solution?

      With cell phones, most people dispose of them by turning them in to their provider (all of which will dispose of them properly, for free in most cases). We need something standard for this with PC equipment, like we have with automobiles (oil, tires, batteries - all easy to find a proper disposal facility).

      If there were computer recycling centers, that could properly dispose or recycle the components and/or bare elements, that was easily accessible and known to most people -- well, I think that would be a better solution than requiring companies to guarantee products for some arbitrary period that may not work well for some industries and consumers. Having fines (after a long transition period) for improper disposal -- again just like the auto repair industry -- would help make it a common standard. Obviously the fines/penalties should be on-par with the relative environmental effect that improper disposal of a PC would have (eg, relatively small, but still good incentive to do the "right thing").

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    2. Re:Reducing waste by Snover · · Score: 1

      There are computer recycling centers. They are the same city and county recycling centers that you will send all your other recyclables to. How much easier can it get?

      --

      [insert witty comment here]
    3. Re:Reducing waste by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      I hate to reply to my own post, but I think a comprimise where the cost of disposal (or a portion thereof) could be added to the price of the product. I believe this is used in some industries already, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.

      Someone else pointed out that there are in fact computer recycling facilities, and I know that this is true. However, it's not yet common practice for people to use them. Some incentive -- be it enforcement, which I'm having second thoughts about, or making it free or added to the original purchase price -- would help.//

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    4. Re:Reducing waste by anshil · · Score: 1

      In the EU we've 2 years legal warranty eitherway.

      First 6 months they have to proove the failure wasn't in the device at the transaction time, next 18 months you can proove it.

      --

      --
      Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
    5. Re:Reducing waste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      simple solution to waste disposal is to launch it into space and let someone else deal with it in 600 years.

    6. Re:Reducing waste by jmv · · Score: 1

      Then you might as well aim at the sun and really forget about it.

    7. Re:Reducing waste by mwood · · Score: 1

      I think a lot of people buy the low priced product because recent experience has shown that the higher priced product is not really any better at what they want it to do, just more expensive.

    8. Re:Reducing waste by dustmite · · Score: 1

      Indeed! Hehe. The problem with the idea of shooting trash into space is probably mainly the cost of getting things up there. A lot of force/energy is required. It's expensive even for small payloads like a few people and a bit of equipment. Now try do it for the millions of tonnes of waste (toxic or otherwise) that humans produce each year, it's not feasible.

  11. Anybody know how this is done? by benchbri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quote from the article:

    "The Santa Clara, Calif.-based chip maker, the world's biggest, said it is working with the rest of the industry to remove the remaining amount of lead that's needed to connect the processor's core with its packaging."

    I read this and think solder. Anyone know what else they would use?

    /uses lead as a paperweight

    1. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you expect anything more (less?) from intel?

    2. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tin? Most solder is already partially (40%, IIRC) tin. The only difficulty with using 100% tin solder that I can think of might be a higher melting point. I have no idea what the melting point of tin is though; I'm just assuming it's higher than lead.

    3. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the only reason, and hardly the most important one. The real reason is that any tin/lead allow other than 63/37 will exhibit a plastic state when cooling. What this means is that if you are a professional electronic technician, your job becomes a little more difficult because if you aren't really careful your solder job will have cracks in it. This isn't a problem for 63/37 since when the solder cools it goes directly from liquid to solid. So, even though it isn't really harder to make 63/37 solder than 60/40, the cost of is about 2-fold higher.

    4. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by ColaMan · · Score: 1, Funny

      er, lead-free solder?

      Maybe some alloy with cadmium could replace it ;-)

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    5. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting. Is this a bigger problem for smaller soldering jobs, like surface mount components? The only soldering I've done is through-hole and wires (hobby stuff, kits and broken battery cables mostly), and I haven't really had any trouble with cracking using 60/40.

      Offtopic whining: 40% tin? What was I thinking? I've got a spool of solder on my desk that clearly says 60% Sn! Well, I got the 40% part right at least...

    6. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by MrIrwin · · Score: 2, Informative
      Lead free solder. Most lead free formulations have a high silver content, and reflow temperatures are higher.

      All major solder manufacturers allready have lead free products in place, check out thier websites for exact formulations.

      BTW, a lot of chip manufacturers have allready done thier lead free packaging. Intels move is late in the day, which is ironic because they are making hi end high cost chips were gold is often used for bonding and plating rather than the solder used to tin the pins of lowwer cost chips.

      The higher costs (which are actually quite small compared to the overall price of finished goods) has meant that blanket legislation is inevitable to change habits in this highly competitive market.

      The higher reflow temperatures are an issue as well, but most components can allready withstand these temperatures, especially as higher temperature solders are somtimes used as a production technique.

      Believe it or not the legislators did actually check that it was feasible before making the laws!

      --

      And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    7. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by juniorkindergarten · · Score: 1

      ummm cadmium is even more toxic than lead.

      --
      "Every security scheme that is based on secrets eventually fails." - Steve Jobs
    8. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by tlk+nnr · · Score: 1

      Solder is correct.
      But the article mixes two separate issues, thus the answer is a bit longer:
      If you look at a BGA package on an PCB, then there are two interconnects: first the silicon die is connected to an intermediate substrate, the interposer. The result is the BGA.
      Then the BGA is connected to the board.

      For the second level interconnect (interposer to board) eutectic or near-eutectic lead-tin solder is used right now- around 37% lead, melts at 187 deg C.
      SnAgCu (~95% tin, ~3.5% silver, ~0.5% copper) is the prime candidate to replace the lead-tin solder. In 2006, it will be illegal to sell equipment that uses lead containing solder in the second level interconnect.
      If you are interested in detail - http://www.boulder.nist.gov/div853/lead%20free/sol ders.html is a good starting point.

      For the first level interconnect (chip to interposer), a solder with a higher melting point is required: the solder must not melt while soldering the BGA to the board. Right now usually 90 or 95% lead, rest tin, solders are used. Intel is interested in replacing this solder with something else (4th paragraph: the connection between the core and the package). I'm not aware of an legislation to ban these high-lead solders, and I'm not aware of a replacement.

    9. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Antimony?

    10. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      he knows.

      --
    11. Re:Anybody know how this is done? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "near-eutectic lead-tin solder is used right now- around 37% lead, melts at 187 deg C"

      It'll be funny if the real reason Intel is going lead free is because their near future chips will run at temperatures higher than 187 deg C. ;).

      --
  12. hype by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you think that even a 95% decrease in the lead in the microprocessor would have as much as 0.1% impact on the amount of lead in a desktop computer, think again! The lead in the solder on the boards and in the power supply is a far greater factor than the very small amount of lead in a CPU. Sure, you can say "any decrease is an improvement", and maybe it even really is (that depends an awful lot on what the lead is replaced with though), but don't let let yourself be fooled by someone pointing at the CPU and calling attention to it while the Intel chip is not the real problem.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From the article: A typical computer processor and monitor contain five to eight pounds of lead

      That sounds like a really heavy processor.

      They should consider reducing the power consumption of the power LED as well, because a typical computer power LED and mainboard consume... well, a lot of power ;-)

    2. Re:hype by eclectro · · Score: 1

      If you think that even a 95% decrease in the lead in the microprocessor would have as much as 0.1% impact on the amount of lead in a desktop computer, think again!......pointing at the CPU and calling attention to it while the Intel chip is not the real problem.

      I wouldn't say it is even .1% of the problem

      CPU's in desktops often get pulled and used in other systems. Pulling a CPU out of socket requires no burning or chemical reaction, hence nothing is released in the enviroment.

      As most if not all Desktop CPUs today are faster than 500 MHz, they can find a useful life in lower end low cost computers somewhere. Somebody does not need more than that to browse the web and check email.

      Even if the CPU gets tossed in the dump somewhere, as I'm sure many 286/386/486s do, the CPU itself is embedded in a ceramic or plastic chip that will protect it from reaching the enviroment for a very long time.

      As the parent has pointed out, the lead in the solder on the circuit boards is _many magnitudes_ greater in both quantity and potential exposure to the enviroment.

      It seems that the biggest growing export (besides jobs) is trash, where some third world country can worry about the problem. Officials there often look the other way because they want to tax the trade.

      It's not just circuit boards, but computer monitors have four pounds of lead in the CRT, which is a magnitude worst than the accompanying circuit board. The plastics used to build the cases is toxic also, especially if recyclers burn the plastic, as they often do. Don't forget all the other countless devices or e-junk (cell phones, TVs, radios, VCRs) that are more likely get tossed.

      But even worse by another magnitude (as bad as this is) is car batteries

      Brazil, India, several countries in Asia collect mountains of car batteries, where they sit in the open and rain water washes all the chemicals into the groundwater. They are burned and smelted, and the process pollutes the enviroment further.

      So, when talking about a CPU, compared to all the other toxic junk there is, it is insignificant in the extreme.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    3. Re:hype by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      The lead in the solder on the boards and in the power supply is a far greater factor than the very small amount of lead in a CPU.

      I'm not so sure that this is true these days. I have no sources here, but I believe the majority of solder used in consumer electronics (including PCs) is of the lead-free variety (mostly silver and nickel, I believe).

      I do know that some cheaper consumer electronic devices have warnings in the manual about proper disposal because "this product contains lead...", but most things manufactured these days don't have this warning (presumably because the lead content is below some preset threshold?)

      I could be wrong of course, but I do believe this to be the case with most electronics these days.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    4. Re:hype by eclectro · · Score: 1

      I have no sources here, but I believe the majority of solder used in consumer electronics (including PCs) is of the lead-free variety (mostly silver and nickel, I believe)

      This might take the place of lead solder, rather than silver, as it can use similar temperatures as lead solder.

      Lead free soldering represents a minority in manufacturing, with companies now only starting to switch over with pressure from Japan and eventually the EU.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    5. Re:hype by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      Lead free soldering represents a minority in manufacturing, with companies now only starting to switch over with pressure from Japan and eventually the EU.

      I'm not sure why I was under the impression that companies had started doing this a while ago, but I guess it's good that something is being done now anyway. I don't really know what kind of dangers lead poses, though even if minor, and if it's not *that* difficult to start using something else, it probably should be phased out...

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    6. Re:hype by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      Sort of like my greenie friend who bitched at farmers and the lack of fuel emissions on their tractors, when he himself drove an "eco-friendly" Toyota that spewed blue smoke to commute fifty miles to work.

      (but I'm sure his "caring" emotions more than compensated for his pollutomatic car)

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    7. Re:hype by frovingslosh · · Score: 1
      when he himself drove an "eco-friendly" Toyota that spewed blue smoke to commute fifty miles to work.

      No, more like the eco-kooks who promote cars that run on clean burning hydrogen, without looking into how that hydrogen is produced (hint: a company that produces it in large quanities breaks it down from natural gas by subjecting it to heat from burning yet more natural gas in a catalyic environment, the result is hydrogen, carbon monoxide and carbon dixoide, The carbon dixoide and some of the carbon monoxide is vented freely into the air, just to make the "clean burning hydrogen". The result is a lot more polution than if the cars just burnt natural gas, but the eco-kooks can look at their hydrogen cars and talk about how clean they are).

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  13. Alternative heating. by AndyFewt · · Score: 2, Funny

    With the amount of heat the chips give off, you can keep entire rooms warm. My p4 3.2ghz keeps my office warm when its cold. I also have a 1.2ghz p4 sitting next to it but that doesnt give off much heat. Just a thought.

    1. Re:Alternative heating. by tarunthegreat · · Score: 1, Funny

      So basically what you're trying to say is that by creating faster, power-hungry processors, Intel is scoping out new markets that can really use that 'power'(like Siberia..)...while at the same time working for the benefit of mankind, by reducing lead and keeping us warm.... This will be a problem for Bangalore. The temp over there is already on the higher side, it's mostly summer all yr round...

    2. Re:Alternative heating. by VoraciousGorak · · Score: 1

      I can definitely back that up. With a 2.1GHz P4 Willamette, a 2.8GHz P4 Northwood, a pair of Athlon XPs at 1.5GHz and 2.2GHz, and a P3-450 to boot, I had the window open last winter while my computers ran Folding@Home 24/7. I dread the coming warm seasons... I have to SLEEP in this room.

  14. How much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    95% lower... Is there really a lot of lead in microprocessors, or is it just marketing?

    1. Re:How much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good question.

      As far as we know, maybe Intel has been artifically adding 20 atoms of lead to their otherwise lead-free processors, planning ahead for a nice "95% reduction" PR move in 2004, and a "now totally lead-free" PR move in 2008.

  15. How much lead is present in a microprocessor? by unixwin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Question:
    Intel to Reduce Chips' Lead Content ?

    Answer:
    For environmental reasons, Intel Corp. plans to reduce the amount of lead in its microprocessors and chip sets by 95 percent starting this year.

    Real Answer:
    A European Union directive requires manufacturers to ban the use of six specified hazardous substances, including lead, after July 2006

    My question:
    So how much of lead is there actually in a microprocessor/flash? 95% reduction is great, but without an actual number a comparison is pointless.

    --
    -- everyones not everybody and neither is everybody like everyone.
    1. Re:How much lead is present in a microprocessor? by mhifoe · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Register has an article with more info.
      A flip-chip package currently contains 0.4 grams of lead. A tiny amount compared to that in the solder in a motherboard, let alone a monitor.

    2. Re:How much lead is present in a microprocessor? by MrIrwin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Legislators looked at the amount of lead used by the electronics industry as a whole. Overall it is a lot, and as it is not actually necessary (it just costs a bit less), they simply said no lead in electronics.

      --

      And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    3. Re:How much lead is present in a microprocessor? by Technician · · Score: 1

      What I want to know, is how are hard drives, motherboards, memory sticks, monitors, mice, etc. (basicly anything with a circuit board) going to be made without solder a 60/40 lead/tin mixture. The only thing keeping Intel from using solder is the packagaing. The Flip chip design uses solder on the top of the chip to connect it to the package so the back of the die can be exposed to a heatsink. They could go to the old style package with a die bottom down in a package with gold wires stitched from the top of the die to the package, however, the heat path would now be blocked. The chip would cost more to make (packaging) as each connection is done one at a time by machine instead of all at once (flow solder) and the chip would have to be severly underclocked as there is now not a low thermal resistance path to remove heat. Would you pay more for an identical chip that ran 1/4 or less speed to keep the lead out?

      Intel needs to keep the flip chip design so it can be heatsinked effeciently (directly to the back of the die) to keep the speed/performance up. Having poor performance by going way back in packaging technology is not a viable option in high power parts. They have tried to use copper, but the connections weren't reliable and switched back to lead. They are still looking for a workable alternative.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    4. Re:How much lead is present in a microprocessor? by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      I always think it's silly that legislate the complete elimination of certian materials. Escpecally with heavy metals (which are naturally occuring in varying concentrations depending on where you live) it it isn't really realistic to say "completly do away with this". There is always an acceptable limit of exposure, since you can never completly avoid exposure. This is less true of some complex organic molecules, but even so there is an acceptable safe limit.

      People don't demand 100% reliablity from automibilles, computers or just about any thing you can think of. People reaize that it's unreasonable to demand a 100% reliability for anything, but for some reason, they don't understand that you can't have a 100% contaminant free environment, because the environment is not naturally free of toxic substances. They don't understant that it's impossible to refine a material to 100% purity (though they can get darned close). I think when it comes down to it, it's jsut that people don't know a lot about chemistry.

      At any rate, it's hard to say that there's a good reason to demand the complete removal of lead from these products. What would be more resonable would be to say "you can't have more than this ammount of lead". Obviously there's a good reason to get rid of lead paint, since the exposure is greater, the ammount is larger, and the potential for environmental contamination is greater but for microprocessors, I'd doubt the reduction of lead is worth the effort. Other computer parts though, are a much larger problem.

    5. Re:How much lead is present in a microprocessor? by dustmite · · Score: 1

      But wouldn't the same EU directive apply to motherboards and monitors too?

  16. Possible Solution to Terrorism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    In the process they are exposed to the toxic compounds that are released. In other cases, lead makes its way into drinking water.

    Perhaps the older parts could be given (or sold!) to any number of Islamic countries that foster a "idiots-with-guns" mentality. Eventually... no more terrorists.!

  17. Don't dispose computer, just install the right SW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    "Hardware is only as old as the SW it runs"
    You can and should make "old" PCs new again with projects like RULE (temporarily on idle, will come back for Fedora Core 2)

  18. where's the 8 lbs of lead?? by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    on the site linked to in the article they claim "A typical computer processor and monitor contain five to eight pounds of lead..."

    Now I've never cracked open a monitor so I don't know if they really contain 8 lbs of lead, but where is all this lead in a PC? The entire motherboard can't weigh more than a pound or two so that's not it. The case? No, that's sheet metal. Is it in the hard drive? Average mid-tower PC probably doesn't weigh much more than 8 lbs total so I can't imagine where all this lead is at.

    Also monitors are rarely thrown out. I've gone through about half a dozen PCs but kept the same monitor. They're just too freaking useful, even old 14" monitors are great for a second PC and still easily sell on eBay. Are these broken monitors people are tossing out?

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    1. Re:where's the 8 lbs of lead?? by JKR · · Score: 4, Informative
      In the monitor glass; the alternative is not having children ;-)


      Seriously, look at the bigger monitor tubes (especially in the EU); they have a radio-dosage sticker certifying the level of beta radiation emitted, usually at the preset acceleration voltage.


      Jon.

    2. Re:where's the 8 lbs of lead?? by mhifoe · · Score: 5, Informative

      All the lead is in the monitor glass.
      The amount of lead in a base unit is limited to solder and tiny amounts within the ICs.

    3. Re:where's the 8 lbs of lead?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tons of monitors and TV's get thrown out. I work for a systems integrator and we have room full of old monitors that still work. We use them wherever
      we can.

      New monitors are so inexepensive, why buy an old
      14" b&w ? Sure they may be cheap on ebay, but after shipping and handling, you might as well chip in the extra couple of bucks and get a cheap
      color 17".

      People are replacing CRT's with LCD's. People buy new PC's that have monitors bundled with them. Old monitors won't handle the refresh rate, etc on the latest and greatest video cards. Its frequently cheaper to buy a new monitor than to get an old one repaired.

      By the way, if you break the tube, its considered "toxic waste" in most states, and suddenly a lot harder to dispose of legally.

    4. Re:where's the 8 lbs of lead?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A typical computer processor and monitor contain five to eight pounds of lead..."

      What a goddamn ridiculous statement. In related news, my house and the country of China contain over one billion people.

  19. Bravo! by kdachev · · Score: 1, Interesting


    Thumbs up, Intel!

    Lesser power consumption, better optimizing compilers, new technology in place of the older x86 and creating more jobs are still in your list... don't forget it! :)

    I myself have doubts they are doing this only because of environmental reasons..., but nevertheless it is a step in the right direction.

  20. What a Load of Twaddle by nukenerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ist This is Intel, so we are talking only about the processor and other chips, not the whole machine? Vast majority of lead is soldering to the motherboard and other printed circuits - outside Intel's control.

    2nd You won't stop 3rd world countries trying to kill themselves. A colleague of mine once worked for a crane company who sold to India, among other places. He went out there to check the new installation of a new crane once and found they had removed all the hand rails around ladders and platforms etc and sold them for scrap! You cannot impose western standards on these places.

    3rd Not just 3rd world countries. I work as a safety engineer and anyone, even supposedly "sensible" workers within my own industry (they have to pass various aptitude tests here), have limitless imagination in devising new ways to try to kill themselves. Only constant monitoring and supervision stops them from doing so. We can only leave 3rd world countries to regulate themselves.

    4th Sounds like a publicity gesture by Intel to me. "Lead" is one of those trigger words which switches people into self-righteous mode. These gestures always seem to work - even among people of above average knowledge and intelligence. Just watch the posters here for example.

    Now, where's that asbestos suit.

    1. Re:What a Load of Twaddle by tarunthegreat · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You won't stop 3rd world countries trying to kill themselves

      U also won't stop first-world countries from trying to kill 3rd-world countries either.

    2. Re:What a Load of Twaddle by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      Now, where's that asbestos suit.

      It was declared hazardous to health decades ago... worse than lead in some ways :-/

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    3. Re:What a Load of Twaddle by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      But asbestos suits are only harmful if you inhale them...

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  21. Banias and Dothan by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Read the title for your reduced power consumption chips, which should be hitting the desktop within a few months or so. Banias is just wiping the floors with any competitors battery-life and speed wise, and their greatest competitor is actually themselves; those god awful Celeron notebooks with 30 minute battery lifes. But what's cheap usually outsells what's new.

    I fully believe that Pentium V (Pentium 5, whichever they choose to call it), will be Dothan, introducing to the desktop for the first time a power-saving logic. Not only does this make sense for quieter, smaller computing (two of the biggest buzzfactors on the market right now; those micro cases and motherboards are selling like wildfire), it makes for cheaper, faster computing. I believe that the cluncky Pentium 4M will be dropped altogether, and the Pentium 4 technology (Tejas, the last NetBurst Archetecture chip I know of) will be integrated into the Xeon line to run head on verses the AMD64 chips (hince, the reason they're adding in the x86-64 extensions to that processor).

    Long Live P6

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:Banias and Dothan by sfe_software · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think power consumption has always been a large factor. You can't increase switching speed and transistor count without either utilizing a LOT more power, or making the process more efficient.

      Now granted, the "need for speed" in recent years has caused the net effect to be higher power consumption, but if consumption were anywhere near the level of older processors, but with the transistor count and switching speed of current processors -- we'd need some very serious heat dissipation.

      Right now, speeds are fast enough that raw clock speed isn't as much of a concern for consumers any more. Even I don't feel the need to upgrade at this point, as the gains would be minimal. Any machine you buy new today will be more than sufficiently fast for what most users do, and most of them will play current and near-future games with ease.

      So the push is now back to power consumption, just like when all the "Enegery Star Compliant" stuff first started appearing. Notice that most PC companies are making much quiter PCs, giving them smaller and more stylish designs, etc -- rather than having the fastest available CPU, etc. Lower power consumption falls inline with this, especially with making PCs quieter (less power means less required cooling, smaller power supplies, and ultimately smaller and quieter PCs).

      It's all a matter of what's going to sell at a given moment. If we required more CPU speed, power consumption be damned. While we don't really need more speed, focus can go to power consumption and efficiency.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    2. Re:Banias and Dothan by cronot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Right now, speeds are fast enough..."

      "640Kb ought to be enough for everyone..."

    3. Re:Banias and Dothan by the+argonaut · · Score: 1

      This is insightful? Somebody needs to learn to read a bit more carefully.

      "Right now, speeds are fast enough..."

      Note the use of the qualifying term. He's not indicating that nobody will ever need a faster processor, but that for most everyday uses computers are fast enough, and he has a point. Sure, there are some folks out there for whom instantaneous won't be fast enough, but as it is until the next must-have push the envelope app is unleashed on the masses, current computer speeds are good enough for most everybody.

      --
      fuck you.
    4. Re:Banias and Dothan by b-baggins · · Score: 1

      Right now, speeds are fast enough that raw clock speed isn't as much of a concern for consumers any more.

      Really? You obviously don't do much with digital video and photography, but many consumers do.

      --
      You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
    5. Re:Banias and Dothan by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "there are some folks out there for whom instantaneous won't be fast enough"

      For lots of people the speed of light is a bit too low. But I suppose changing the speed of light would screw up a lot of other things...

      --
    6. Re:Banias and Dothan by cronot · · Score: 1

      Hey, cool down man... My comment wasn't supposed to be Insightful, just funny... I may have failed miserably at that, but I do agree with the grandparent, I just pointed out the similarity with his disclaimer and another popular one :-)

    7. Re:Banias and Dothan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's your harddrive, stupid. Get broadband, a pentium 4 won't make your baseball download faster.

    8. Re:Banias and Dothan by the+argonaut · · Score: 1

      Apologies. I was reacting more to the cracked out moderation of the post then to your post itself. No personal offense intended.

      My response was a bit over the top too - maybe /. needs to implement some sort of mandatory cooling down period before replying. . . :)

      --
      fuck you.
  22. Watch out for unwanted side-effects by pe1chl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There always is a risk that first generations of such environmentally-friendly products have some kind of malfunction, and need to be returned and replaced. This has happened in several cases, including in the semiconductor industry.
    Probably the dump of failed environmentally-friendly but useless products damages the environment more than the originally replaced product.

    I would wait for the second generation of such a processor before buying it myself or recommending to buy a lot of them at work. For me, the amount of lead that could be in a single processor and could be saved in the next, is not worth the risk of having it fail.

  23. Lead is the least of our worries by pdxdada · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It really is. On many levels modern chip production is horrendously bad for the environment. It's a little known fact but pure silicon doesn't exist naturally on earth, it's a multistep process with some really nasty chemicals to produce it. Lithography is again a multistep process with some truly nasty chemical waste including some strong acids. The machines used to "dope" silicon to produce p/n junctions are often sold off cheep to hobbiests because of the large costs associated with cleaning and recycling them. If you find one don't take it, often they explode if opened. Then let's not forget that the next gen P4 is slotted to run, at what, 150 watts?

    Oh, but wait, atleast now there'll be a quarter gram less lead in my computer.

    Most people have all the computing power they need. It's time more people worry less about clock speed and more about their electric bills and what happens to all those chemicals after Intel's done with them. Cheers.

    --
    Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
    1. Re:Lead is the least of our worries by eclectro · · Score: 1


      The secret life of your computer illustrates what went in to make a computer.

      Don't forget, this can be said for a lot of other things as well, like consumer electronics.

      Trash and waste abounds at both ends of the equation.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    2. Re:Lead is the least of our worries by dokuja · · Score: 1

      Former MOS Technologies manufacturing site cleanup:
      http://epa.gov/reg3hwmd/super/PA/commodore/pad.htm

  24. It's just PR by RockyMountain · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The announcement is just PR!

    I'm not denying that the lead reduction is real. It is real.

    But this isn't anything unique to Intel, and it isn't done out of the goodness of their green little hearts.

    Every IC manufacturer, in fact practically every manufacturer of anything electronic, is already investigating lead reduction or elimination at some level or other. Not all are making a public hoopla about it, though.

    Lead free solder requires the development of new alloys and new processes. The changeover isn't trivial, but some promissing candidates exist. Typically they have very high tin content, plus some mix of Silver, Copper, and Antimony.

    There are several reasons for this trend: Regulatory changes (pending in the US, and I think already passed in Europe?), Liability/Insurance cost (employee lawsuits), and waste treatment cost, including waste water.

    My opinion: I don't beleive lead in electronics will ever be totally eliminated, nor outright outlawed. I'm no solder/process expert, but those I know tell me that leadless soldering presents many challenges. More likely in my opinion, regulations will take the form of taxes and fees on lead content, driving manufacturers to use it only where no good alternative exists.

    1. Re:It's just PR by mhifoe · · Score: 2, Informative
      The directive comes into force in Europe in 2006.

      The main problem relates to the higher temperatures needed to melt lead free solder. These higher temperatures can stress components and are particuarly worrying in products that have to last 20 years.

    2. Re:It's just PR by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      I'm not denying that the lead reduction is real. It is real.

      But this isn't anything unique to Intel, and it isn't done out of the goodness of their green little hearts.


      I agree with you for the most part. However, lead-free solder isn't much more difficult to work with (at least as an elecronics hobbiest). I think the concern is more the cost of the solder, given that (I believe) it usually contains a lot of silver. Maybe it's harder to manufacture (or manufacture with), or perhaps there are other mechanical/electrical issues, I don't know, but I suspect cost is the biggest issue with moving from lead in electronics manufacturing.

      I do agree though that Intel is using "compliance with laws" to mean "doing the right thing", and putting that spin on it. But most companies do that, and I don't necessarily flaw them for that; at least they aren't trying to fight the regulations in order to avoid having to change their industry in some way (think recording companies, telcos, airlines, etc). Instead, they're complying, and using that for some good PR at the same time.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    3. Re:It's just PR by RockyMountain · · Score: 1

      However, lead-free solder isn't much more difficult to work with (at least as an elecronics hobbiest).

      For factory production, basic soldering, e.g. simple wave soldering or single-sided reflow SMT is probably not much more difficult with unleaded than with leaded solder. Where it gets exciting is when you do fancy stuff.

      Some soldering processes are pretty sophisticated. Consider a board with reflow SMT components on both sides, some of them using solderball or solder-column attachment, areas of selective through-hole wave solder, and areas with layered (interposer) board attachment.

      The manufacturing engineers do some pretty amazing stuff. By careful selection of which solder alloys are used where (i.e. different melting points), and very tight control of thermal profiles, they can get seemingly impossible things to happen. To me, it's black magic that they can reflow the top side of a PCB without the components already on the bottom falling off.

      So, they depend upon not just one solder, but a variety of different alloys with different properties. Trying to re-engineer a complex process to switch to all-new (lead free) alloys is far from trivial.

      Another issue is that the higher temperatures may stress parts more during attachment. This can lead to higher fallout, shorter component life, etc. Not my specialty, but some QA folks tell me this can cause problems.

      Despite all these difficulties, I'm a fan of eliminating lead from the process, and am glad to see it finally happening. It's the right thing to do.

  25. Pb Free - Not just Intel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I suspect this is related to the EU directive.

    I work for a European Semiconductor company, and have some involvement in our drive to be lead free, so i know a little about this.

    Lead is used in the lead frame of the chip, as the coating to make it solderable, and also in some BGA packages as the balls. Pb is not used in the actual chip manufacture.

    There are alternatives to Pb, but normally they require higher temperatures for soldering, which have an impact on the package thermal characteristics and material, which in turn may have some influence on the performance of the chip itself, so these changes have to be handled carefully.

    At the moment the US does not have a deadline for phasing out Pb (I think they refused to sign up?) but the EU does, so if Intel wants to sell chips in the EU, or Japan, they have to provide Pb free alternatives.

    One person mentioned that this is a small percentage compared to the rest of the Pb in a PC - which comes from the solder mainly, but what you should remember is that the EU directive applies to ALL Pb products, and therefore all circuit boards will be Pb free too.

    It's only in the US that you might get a Pb free chip, with no reduction in the ammount of Pb in the rest of the machine.

    This is a lot of work for a lot of people. It's not a small change, and all companies have to do this, not just Intel.

  26. Chemophobes - Metalic lead not a danger by xtronics · · Score: 2, Funny

    Lets see - the lead ore is in a toxic lead oxide form - smelted into metallic lead (much safer) - Now it is baned from burying it again??

    Too many idiots in this country that think they know science when they are really just confused by some activists statistics.

    The "*ell" with it - I'm going up stairs to sleep with my wife - and I will completely ignore the fact that the potassium in her body exposes me to some extra radiation. - Good night!

    1. Re:Chemophobes - Metalic lead not a danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares what happens when it gets dumped into a landfill -- I'm worried about what happens to the lead when somebody dumps the chip into an incinerator. I DON'T want to be breathing the lead from my chips.

      aQazaQa

  27. No deposit No return by zakezuke · · Score: 1

    In some places, a deposit is required for disposable goods, usually things like soda / water / beer bottles / cans / jugs / whatever what have you. There was a time when it was the norm to provide reuseable containers made out of glass, which gets reused but this is no long the fasion. Simply put, it's more cost effective let the consumer junk that bottle, and not worry about the cost of disposal. This keeps prices down and everyone's happy.

    If manufacturers actually took into account the cost of disposal, it would likely raise prices but could have the benifit of actually not making its way into landfills. The design can actually in theory take into account the fact that all materials used be recovered. Unforunatly I can't see this happening anytime soon.

    Since 2000 I've gone though the following CPUs
    Pentium 166
    pentium 200
    AMD k6-3 400
    Pentium III 500 [motherboard change]
    Pentium III 733
    AMD athlon 1700xp (motherboard change]

    I have found homes for all the the above... but pretty damn soon they will reach end of life and no bugger would want them anymore. Chances are it'll just end up in a landfill at such time.

    --
    There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    1. Re:No deposit No return by value_added · · Score: 1

      When you say "found homes" for them I'm tempted to ask whether there's some adoption agency out there that matches up geeks and computers.

      FWIW, I'd suggest you consider keeping your old gear. You may surprise yourself and discover a need you didn't think you had. Even in a home environment, extra gear could easily be used for a test sytem (new program installations, alternative distributions, major upgrades, etc.), or alternatively be put to use as a file server, backup storage, multi-boot replacement, a firewall, yada yada yada.

      In some ways it's analogous to the typical computer sales question "What are you going to use this computer for?" You may not know until you get it.

    2. Re:No deposit No return by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      FWIW, I'd suggest you consider keeping your old gear. You may surprise yourself and discover a need you didn't think you had. Even in a home environment, extra gear could easily be used for a test sytem (new program installations, alternative distributions, major upgrades, etc.), or alternatively be put to use as a file server, backup storage, multi-boot replacement, a firewall, yada yada yada.

      I have a file server, I have a nat firewall, I have web server, I have my pc, that other pc, and some other PC overthere. I have a test system, I have a old powermac. I have a old sun in the closet, I have a microvax in the other closet.

      I have too much crap, and heaven forbid someone wants my old trash, I declair victory!

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    3. Re:No deposit No return by anshil · · Score: 1

      Try Ebay.

      --

      --
      Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
  28. Eutectic alloys vs pure tin by haggar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Many have already written that the lead is in the glass of the CRT. If I'm not mistaken, lead is added to glass to improve it's clarity.

    However, the lead in the soldering alloy is significant, too: the so-called "eutectic" alloy contains 37 to 40 % lead and the rest is tin (Sn).
    Eutectic alloys have a lower melting point than any of it's components. That's exactly the reason why lead is added to tin, in soldering alloys.
    Another very efficient dopant is silver - it decreases considerably the melting point. Unfortunately, it's expensive.

    Tin is basicly innocuous, while lead is toxic. The problem with lead is that it causes a chronic poisoning called saturnism, where your brain suffers considerable damage - in fact, largely unrecoverable.
    I should add here that there are historians that think one reason for the fall of the roman empire lies in the use of lead cups for drinking wine. These lead cups were quite popular in the roman army, and it's not inconceivable that this might have decreased the soldier's mental and physical abilities.

    The problem with the lead-free soldering technologies is exactly the higher melting temperature of pure tin compared to the eutectic alloys. Reflow and other technologies have to be fine-tuned for higher temperatures, and the risk of damaging some of the components is significantly higher. I, for one, prefere much more to use normal, eutectic alloy for my hobby work.

    --
    Sigged!
    1. Re:Eutectic alloys vs pure tin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, the lead is in the glass of crt's to absorb the xrays that the device produces. There is a reason there is an xray warning inside the chasis, when it comes to tube replacement.

  29. If it gets any greener... by DatAsian · · Score: 2, Funny

    it might look like an AMD processor :)

  30. Maybe someone will finally answer my question... by ChiralSoftware · · Score: 2, Funny
    I send a lot of things to /dev/null. How do I empty the bit bucket in an environmentally sound way?

    --------
    WAP hosting

  31. Problems with gold by Maljin+Jolt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some twenty years ago, my friend and I we made some about a kilogram of pure gold from computer parts by dirty and costly chemical work, mainly from russian mainframe parts (remember "Minsk" anyone?). One russian card contained 10x more gold than japanese memory card or french connector mainly because of thickness, western parts are practically of no use.

    The problem with the pure gold was it was contaminated with about 0.9% of mix of platinum and iridium so it was much harder then normal soft pure gold. It was not usable for local dentist nor for making jewellery.

    We did not find any usable process how to separate platinum and/or iridium from the gold, so the only practical purpose of the pure gold was.. a magic stick.

    --
    There you are, staring at me again.
  32. Re:They're by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you used text-to-speech software you'd never know that the poster writes like a third grader. :)

    Seriously, is using the right word so damn hard? Or should we forget all this written English nonsense and just post links to mp3s of us saying our comments, since nobody can seem to remember the definitions of the dozen or so commonly used words that sound or are spelled similarly? It's not like learning that "their" and "they're" (or "lose" and "loose, or "your" and "you're", or "to" and "too", etc...) are two completely different words is that hard... You probably spent more effort installing whatever OS you're running than it'd take to learn this little bit of grammar that makes it a hell of a lot easier to understand what you're trying to say.

  33. RTFA by ciroknight · · Score: 1

    http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,62851,00 .html?tw=wn_tophead_1

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
  34. I May switch! by BeCre8iv · · Score: 1

    I am very concious of the eco damage caused by my computer habit- not that less PB makes much difference in the light of manufacturing techniques.

    Lead is expensiv and if you make chips by the truckload there is significant savings to be made on logistics.

    But if by some quirk of fate, Intel actually start to givashit I may actually pay a little more for an Intel.

    --
    This perpetual motion machine Lisa made is a joke, it just keeps getting faster and faster. - Homer
  35. a new Viet Nam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    It's a quagmire.

    Reservists are being killed. Rumfeld wants to keep the troops that are there now even longer.

    SUPPORT THE TROOPS! Toss out Bush - bring them HOME.

    (Policticians love to say that a comparison with Viet Nam is "dangerous". Yes, it is - for the ones that sent us into Iraq.)

  36. 'burn' by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
    workers who usually 'burn' the parts to get rid of plastic and recover small amounts of valuable metals

    I don't know why the submitter/editor put quotes around burn; there is nothing metaphorical about this. The parts are burnt in a fire to get rid of plastic coating from wires, etc, to make separation of copper and other metals easier.

  37. It's happeneing elsewhere too by __david__ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Coincidentally, just this week a Japanese customer of ours asked us to modify our firmware on our embedded device to support a different flash chip because the only one we currently support uses lead. We happily oblidged. So Intel definitely isn't the only company out there trying to be more "green".

    -David

  38. Lead is Safe in Glass by nukenerd · · Score: 1, Informative

    I have sent the following e-Mail to the writer of the article which has caused the nonsensical notion that a PC contains up to 8lb of lead (see link in parent), also making the point that lead is safe in glass :-

    Carole,

    Your Web site :-

    http://www.state.me.us/newsletter/may2003/toxic_te chnology.htm

    has been Slashdotted. ie. it has been referenced in Slashdot, a technology news and discussion site

    You are referenced because of this statement on your site :

    "A typical computer processor and monitor contain five to eight pounds of lead, and other heavy metals such as cadmium, mercury and arsenic."

    OK, I understand from :-

    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question678.h tm

    that : "If you have ever tried picking up a 21-inch (53-cm) monitor or a 25-inch (or larger) TV, you know that all the glass in a large CRT can easily weigh more than 50 pounds (23 kg). ...... It turns out that the glass in a CRT contains a lot of lead. A big CRT can contain up to 5 pounds (2.2 kilograms) of lead."

    Firstly, it is clear that what they mean by "a big CRT" is a "25" (or larger) TV" - it is this which will contain up to 5lb of lead. A typical PC monitor is much smaller at say 17" and therefore will contain far less glass and and hence less lead than 5lb. The other lead in computers is of course the solder joints, which will amount to no more than perhaps a hundred grammes.

    Secondly the fact that the lead is in the glass means that it is safe. Lead is only dangerous if you eat it or otherwise absorb it into the body, maybe by it getting into the ground and entering the food chain. But glass is the about the most stable common substance and the lead will remain safely locked in it, unless someone melts it down and for some reason uses high tech to extract the lead at very high temperatures. Therefore, lead is not going to enter the environment from the back garden in your photos, no matter how ugly the place looks.

    Thus, the statements, while well meant, are untrue, and the implications of lead poisoning hazard from this source are misleading. If you take a look at the discussion on Slashdot I think you will see others putting this in less diplomatic terms than I am using. Not all people are not fools, even if some are, so I suggest you modify your wording. I am all for recyling, but let's base discussions on facts.

    1. Re:Lead is Safe in Glass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lead can leach out of the glass. If it can happen with lead crystal decanters (it's the pH level in the stored liquid that does it) to levels higher than most permitted environmental levels simply sitting on a shelf holding some scotch or brandy, it certainly can happen sitting out in a dump somewhere, getting rained on.

      If you get a big enough pile of lead glass, eventually, over a short time, you will probably have a non-insignificant amount of lead leaching into the soil and points beyond that.

    2. Re:Lead is Safe in Glass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lead leaches out out of glass.

      PCB's leaches out of circuit boards and leaks out of transformers.

      Toxic flame retardents leach out of wiring and plastics.

    3. Re:Lead is Safe in Glass by VoraciousGorak · · Score: 1

      So I guess both the AC comments preceding this one basically say "GO LCD!!!11"

      Which isn't a bad idea, as far as pollution and radiation go. Less power drawn (my 20" KDS monitor dissipates a LOT of heat... more than my overclocked Athlon XP setup, in my estimation. Even the dinky little 14" monitor working on my server draws more power and dissipates more heat than the system to which it's attached, again in my estimation.

      There would also be no beta radiation as far as I know, and the lead-leeching glass panes are replaced by light, portable plastic.

      But then, that's the reason we buy LCD displays, isn't it?

  39. great move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    .. but what are they replacing the lead with? plutonium?

  40. Re:So... (True Story) by G4from128k · · Score: 1

    One day in class, the wacky department head at the engineering school I went to told us a little story from his youth. He said that while in chemistry class he discovered that if you dip a nickel (a 5 cent piece for international /.ers) into a pool of mercury it gets very shiny. And if you put it in your mouth, it tastes funny! That story definitely explained why the fellow was almost as mad as a hatter.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  41. Re:Fair trade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Foreigners have large litters to replace any losses incurred as a result of industrialisation.

  42. Green friendly? Yeah, right... by fmaxwell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    AMD fanboys listen up: Yeah, you guys are winning the strongarm race right now. You've got the faster middle-class processor (upper end desktop/lower- to medium-end server) and Intel knows this quite well. They could scale Prescott very quickly up, but so would come heat, and therefore energy prices.

    AMD has the faster high-end processors, too. I just ordered a high-end workstation for modeling and simulation at work. I chose a 64-bit AMD CPU both for the speed it gives now as well as for the future growth potential. Server guys are demaning AMDs and you'll probably even see the Intel-only Dell start offering AMD-based servers.

    Intel has no concern about energy prices and the only reason that they care about heat is because they would need liquid nitrogen cooling to draw off the heat if their CPUs ran much hotter. Their other big concern about heat is that manufacturers can't create reliable 1U racks with CPUs that pull 100+ watts. There is also the issue of building power supplies which have amperages that approach those of arc-welders (yes, I know the voltage is not the same). And there is the issue of carrying that much current through PCB traces.

    Now, lets look at other moves Intel's made lately. They've announced they're going to a PR-rating for selling processors.

    But when AMD did that, Intel screamed that it was deceptive (which was, itself, ironic coming from a company selling GHZ specs to ignorant consumers).

    So, I'm very sure that this is one of the top priorities sitting on the desks of Intel Engineers, I applaud them for taking every step towards a cleaner environment while making my newest tech gadgets.

    I'll believe that Intel has an interest in the environment when they stop trying to convince consumers to throw their existing PCs into landfills and to upgrade to light-dimming 3GHZ P4s for websurfing on their AOL dial-up connections. I'll believe that Intel has an interest in the environment when their desktop chipsets have built-in CPU speed throttling to save power (do you think that you need a 3GHZ CPU for word processing?). All that Intel is doing now is complying with upcoming EU regulations regarding lead.

  43. Chips vs. The Environment by slackerboy · · Score: 1

    What I want to know is when they're going to develop a semiconductor manufacturing process that doesn't use massive amounts of water. If ind the fact that large amounts of water are used (to clean off chemicals, keep dust down/off the chips, etc.) especially ironic conisdering two of Intel's main facilities are in California and Arizona. This is an area that would have a much more significant impact on the environment, but it's not a regulatory requirement (yet...).

    --
    Things to do today: See list of things to do yesterday
  44. Wow... by sczimme · · Score: 0


    Imagine that. :-)

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  45. Beta radiation? by MZdoctor · · Score: 1

    Actually it's not beta radiation (= electrons emitted by nuclei). The electrons emitted by the cathode and accelerated to 30+ kV do not penetrate the glass. They excite the screen to produce visible light and the undesireable byproduct is 30+ kV X-rays which have far greater penetrating power, hence the X-ray absorbing lead in the glass.

  46. Is lead worse than other heavy metals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Semiconductor manufacturing is often an environmental disaster, due to the wierd chemicals and strong reagents used, in bulk, in the doping and etching processes.

    The other popular alternative to silicon is Gallium Arsenide. Gosh, arsenic, another heavy metal with a place in the history of poisonings.

    Lead, mercury, and arsenic are famous just because they're common on the earth and have been known since ancient times. All heavy metals accumulate int he body and cause problems, and I'm not sure that exotic ones are necessarily better.

    I've never been sure that lead isn't being replaced with other metals equally bad. Maybe it is, but I've never seen an explanation of lead-free electronics that explains why the replacements are better, just that they don't contain the demon lead.

  47. obfuscation nazi by rokzy · · Score: 1

    s/"during the utilization phase"/"during use"/g

  48. Markets, markets.... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Sometimes markets have to be regulated so they don't kill us.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  49. Lead? by Kuk+Helvstrom · · Score: 0

    Why the fuck should we care about a few miligrams of lead if the processor consumes 100W of power?

  50. Sounds good by Mathness · · Score: 1

    But will it affect leading zeroes?

    --
    Carbon based humanoid in training.
  51. Intel - Green? by davidle · · Score: 0

    Well a green processor is nice, but considering a modern Pentium consumes between 90 and 15 watts of electricity at idle, they should be looking elsewhere.

  52. Intel following AMD again? by CTho9305 · · Score: 4, Informative

    AMD has been working on going lead free for a while (apparently since 2001).

    1. Re:Intel following AMD again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel's been working on it for at least 3 product cycles starting in 1999. I was working on it in 2001

  53. Whooopty-dooo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now compare the amount of lead in one's PC, versus the amount of lead in the average lead-acid car battery. Far more cars than PC's out there still.

    I commend the effort, but there are many other environmental issues that need to be addressed as a society first.

  54. This is a good thing. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

    In the process they are exposed to the toxic compounds that are released. In other cases, lead makes its way into drinking water.

    But now it won't get into OUR drinking water, and the lead in the water of the enemy means their babies will talk and walk slower, making them easier military targets when they grow up. This could be a nice long term strategy in our war on terrorism, and helps keep our streams and lakes lead free, too.

    I fail to see the down side for us. ;)

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  55. In other news by QEDog · · Score: 1

    The Blue Men Group changed colors and name to the Green Men Group to star the new series of Intel commercials.

    --
    "There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
  56. I'm Johnny Cochran.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and let me just say PCB's don't cause problems. They allow unscrupulous ambulance chasing bastards to catalyze the suffering, birth defects, ruined enviroment, savings, livelyhood and deaths of others into fat paydays because Republicans are convinced the EPA is evil and should be condemed to the hell where they may only shuffle their own paperwork. Also they degrade nearly instantly in water, as opposed to concentrating in higher mammals like whales and humans causing a dizzing array of life and fertility threatening problems. Monsanto, I just want to say, if you'd like to fuck me in the ass, it's the least I can offer, and there's no need for a courtesy reach around between friends.

  57. Soft error rate - alpha radiation by morcheeba · · Score: 1
    I think a big reason behind intel's elimination of solder is that lead in the packaging is responsible for a large number of the alpha rays that cause soft errors. Intel's processors are on the cutting edge of technology and they'll be suspectible to these errors long before, say, the real-time-clock. Here's Mitsubishi's low-alpha solders, and here's a quote from this article:
    The charged particles causing soft errors can come from three different sources.

    -There are particles originating from radioactive impurities in the semiconductor material itself and from surrounding packaging and contact materials such as lead (Pb). Minute levels of such impurities suffice to create problems. These impurities emit alpha particles.

    -There are low-energy neutron particles coming from space that are interacting with a certain type of boron (B10) present in the semiconductor material like BPSG. They also create energetic alpha particles through a nuclear reaction. Although they clearly originate from the outside, they only create problems if B10 is present.

    -Finally, there are high-energy neutrons coming from space. These effects are very pronounced at higher altitudes and have been known for years to cause problems in space applications but even in commercial jetliners although less of course.
    1. Re:Soft error rate - alpha radiation by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      lead in the packaging is responsible for a large number of the alpha rays that cause soft errors.

      On the other hand, wouldn't a lead package protect against outside radiation?

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Soft error rate - alpha radiation by morcheeba · · Score: 1

      Because of the geometry, I doubt it. The lead is only on one side of the chip, and its concentrated in little balls, so it'll only block maybe 1/10th the incoming rays (assuming a flat chip, 50% of the rays come from the wrong side so they aren't blocked, and I'll guessing that the balls cover 20% of the area of the side they are on). This only applies to higher-energy gamma particles - the alpha and beta particles will already be stopped by the component and computer cases, respectively.

      On the other hand, these little radiation emitters are right next to the chip, and emit in all directions, so probably 40% of the rays they emit go through the chip (half go towards the chip, half away).

    3. Re:Soft error rate - alpha radiation by sobinz · · Score: 1

      Free neutrons have a half life of about 12 minutes. They B- decay and effectively become a hydrogen atom plus a neutrino. Even with the time dialation you would get from a neutron traveling really fast I find it hard to believe that any real amount of neutrons could survive what I envision as being a typical trip through space.

  58. It already IS an industry trend, Intel following by pjrc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Regarding the reduction of lead....

    It's about time a company started this - good job - and let's hope other tech companies take the hint.

    Hello, wake up call. This is a major industry trend. Intel is following along. They're definately not the ones starting this, in hopes the rest of the industry will catch on. It is a European Union Directive that deserves the "good job" credit... and it is Intel and every other major manufacturer in the electronics industry that is "taking the hint".

    Most new electronic components are being made with little or no lead. Major companies and contract manufacturers (who solder boards for most smaller companies) are switching to lead-free soldering processes.

    Already this forum is filled with +5 comments about power consumption and how the solder contains much more lead than the chips. Well, here's the news... the whole industry is migrating to lead-free solder.

    Much of the conversion is driven by an EU directive that all electronic products sold in Europe be lead-free by 2008.

    Here's an EE Times Article about the trend, and a possibility that the deadline may be moved up to 2006.

    I am an electrical engineer, and even at the US-based company where I used to work, they're having to go through the painful process of switching the wave solder and reflow ovens (surface mount soldering) to lead-free fluxes and solder alloys.

    So give credit where credit is due. It's the European Union, not Intel, that deserves "good job". The whole industry is taking the hint, as selling or being able to sell in the EU is important to almost everybody.

  59. Intel first? Hardly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many many many embeded processors have been lead free for a while, or at least available in lead free versions...

  60. old news again; but good news nonetheless by MoFoQ · · Score: 1

    It's also on news.com
    (thx to [H]ardOCP)

    but yea, it'll help reduce resistance as lead isn't that good of a conductor of electricity (nor heat) compared to other metals (silver, copper, aluminum).
    Considering that the Prescotts can draw enough power to kill some motherboards, reducing power consumption is a good thing, as Prescotts have been reported as having really good "potential".
    Added benefit of reducing resistance is the reduction in the propagantional delay of the gates, which translates to better clocks or the capability for better clocks as the gates aren't as slow.

    The disadvantage is the added cost and time, and whether or not using leadfree solder changes failure ratios. Typically, leadfree solder melts at a slightly higher temperature. Higher temps may adversely affect the silicon or affect the equipment (assuming they aren't retrofitted to handle the new solder).

    But if it can get the green monkeys off Intel's backs, it might help reduce costs overall.

    As always, time will tell.

  61. bad url fixed here by MoFoQ · · Score: 1

    sry, bad url...

    here's the updated one on news.com

  62. Re:Maybe someone will finally answer my question.. by TeknoHog · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm afraid you're confusing /dev/null with the trash /bin. You should be emptying the system /bin as well as the /users' /bin.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  63. How to use Linux to save our environment by wehe · · Score: 1

    Besides building computer hardware with ecological awareness, there are also ways to use software this way. There are many tips and tricks to do so described in the Linux-Ecology-HOWTO, which is also available in Japanese.

  64. I saw a report on TV by xutopia · · Score: 1
    where Chinese kids would use a lighter and burn/heat a small piece of plastic to smell it. The kids were trained to determine wether the plastic was easily recyclable or not and would do this all day for a few dollars.

    Has anyone else see this? I'm thinking we need to use less plastic as well. Perhaps use more aluminum as it is easily recyclable and kids aren't asked to smell fumes to decide which pile the components go in.

  65. Why I don't plan on worrying about lead in my CPU: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I don't plan on worrying about how much lead there is inside a postage-stamp-sized patch of an apparatus that spends it's ENTIRE useful life on my desktop and then *might* get discarded into a big hole in the ground until someone does SOMETHING about all the two and three-inch long pieces of practically PURE lead riding around on (nearly) EACH and EVERY automobile wheel in America!!! These chunks of lead spend their ENTIRE useful life in DIRECT contact with "the environment" and practically NOBODY gives a rat's bunghole, but suddenly the amount of lead inside my computer's CPU is important? Somebody owes me a break!

  66. Lead and tin whiskers by MtbRocket · · Score: 1

    You need the lead as an impurity for tin so you don't get tin whiskers. It is a very rare but real phenomenon. Scientists still don't know what causes tin whiskers but a little lead impedes their growth. It can also happen in zinc. I wonder what they are using to stop it without lead?

    1. Re:Lead and tin whiskers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cu, Sn, Au

      whiskers can be dealt with

  67. Where's CNN?? by mobiGeek · · Score: 1
    Many 'recycled' computers currently get shipped overseas

    Stop the presses!!! Where's CNN? Where's Lou Dobbs when we need him the most???

    --

    ...Beware the IDEs of Microsoft...

  68. Soft Errors by osuskywalker · · Score: 1

    One effect of eliminating lead is reducing the occurence of soft errors due to alpha particle emission. As the chips scale, the probability that an alpha particle (emitted from radioactive lead isotopes) generates a soft error increases. Is this Intel's way of promoting a positive side effect of a change they would be forced to make anyway?

  69. Theres more to this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've actually worked on the problem. (I can't say who what why becuase of confidentiality concerns and I don't want my butt sued) Its more than just being nice to the environment. My bet is that the current (as in electricity) requirements also dictate that Pb is no longer good for holding current. I do know why they've kept Pb in for so long, but again I'm sure that info is still confidential and would reveal a great deal about the chip design.

    Also think about this--Intel's newest 300mm manufacturing plant is in Ireland (Along with the NM plant and the Oregon RD facility which produces limited numbers of chips)--under EU rules. They need to get rid of the Pb now or face a lot of flak (aka money.....) from 50% of their most modern capacity.

    Its not about the environment--its about the money!!

  70. Green Motherboards already available ! by ferretface5 · · Score: 1

    Fujitsu-Siemens now makes a line of high quality "Green Motherboards" for both P4 and AMD64. Their web site even explains the ISO standards used! http://www.fsc-america.com/html/green_edition.html Fujitsu-Siemens motherboards are well known in Europe, and now they are comming to America. Don't expect to be able to just pick one up at Fry's (etc) just yet. Their web site shows where you can buy one.

  71. What's wrong with lead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's wrong with lead?

    Nothing.

  72. Re:Green friendly? Yeah, right... by pod · · Score: 1
    Their other big concern about heat is that manufacturers can't create reliable 1U racks with CPUs that pull 100+ watts.

    "1U rack-mount servers" you mean? The problem with such power densitty is exactly that. Supplying a standard rack with enough juice and cooling to fill all the units, or even half of them, is a challange, and very few hosting centers were built to supply it.

    --
    "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
  73. Re:Green friendly? Yeah, right... by fmaxwell · · Score: 1

    "1U rack-mount servers" you mean?

    Yes. The folks I hang out with refer to them as "racks" for short, as in 1U racks, 2U racks, etc., although that's probably a term better saved for waitresses at Hooters.

    The problem with such power densitty is exactly that. Supplying a standard rack with enough juice and cooling to fill all the units, or even half of them, is a challange, and very few hosting centers were built to supply it.

    It's a survival of the fittest world in the co-lo facilities. Dell, a company known for building civilized, quiet desktop PCs, puts fans that are so loud in servers that they would make the average fighter jock cringe. It's not that they need that in a normal world, but when they are breathing hot air exhausted by all of the other systems in the co-lo facility, they need every advantage that they can get.

    I really wonder how long it will be before the PC manufacturers standardize fittings for liquid cooling so that each rack server has a liquid in and a liquid out line for cooling. They can't keep doing all of the cooling with air and high-speed fans. It's just not going to scale as processors get more power-hungry.