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Microsoft Clips Longhorn
Gr8Apes writes "Microsoft is clipping Longhorn to get the already-delayed follow-up to Windows XP out the door by 2006. MS has decided to remove some of the most ambitious features. Blackcomb is the version to follow Longhorn, and is expected at the end of the decade. The full new file system feature has been moved to Blackcomb. Other notable parts of the story, in MS's efforts to get its DRM into play, a new version, Windows XP Premium will start shipping with new PCs, which will include a new version of the infamous Windows Media Player. This version will have the ability to shop at on-line stores like the one MS plans to launch later this year. It's their move to 'outflank Apple'."
The /. Summary says the "Full new file system feature has been moved to Blackcomb" and while true, it is misleading. The article actually says WinFS is still going to be in the next version of Windows (which is what it is talking about), it simply won't work over the network, meaning file shares won't work in the same way. This is a lot different from it being completely removed, as it is one of Longhorn's biggest features. Having this over network would be completely insane for most situations too. With many servers not upgrading to this file sharing would have to support the old version anyway so that corporate environments could function without upgrading everything. In addition, while the WinFS has the possibility of being a great help to individuals, it would be much harder to use over a clouded network environment.
NOOOOOO! CLIPPY! NOT AGAIN!
Also in the long line of adjective-noun combinations for their operating systems, Microsoft will follow up on Longhorn and Blackcomb with Sweatyphone, Steelfridge, and Purpletoilet.
why did I sign up for that stupid upgrade plan? WHY???
I also reply below your current threshold.
"Windows XP Premium will start shipping with new PCs, which will include a new version of the infamous Windows Media Player."
Not in Europe, we're going to get the "Windows XP Premium Lite" edition, hah!
The path I walk alone is endlessly long.
30 minutes by bike, 15 by bus.
Windows XP Premium will start shipping with new PCs
Buy an operating system, and a PC comes with it? Hasn't it traditionally been the other way around?
The new thinking now says that the new Office will run on all versions of Windows, whereas it was previously going to be available only on the new XP system... This is a massive statement. It means that the 'new licencing' is so unpopular that it's forcing MS to drop its upgrade/lock-in strategy for Office. Amazing.
I think the growing popularity of Linux in the server market, and over the next 2 years or so in the desktop market too, is a big part of that decision...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
[...]which will include a new version of the infamous Windows Media Player. This version will have the ability to shop at on-line stores like the one MS plans to launch later this year. The EU-Administration will not be very happy with this. Actually this just shows that MS doesnt give shit about the antitrust-suits. It seems like the fine from the EU wasnt nearly severe enough.
A platform that will let you browse, email, and generally enjoy the Internet without risk of viruses, trojans, worms or spam.
.....If only such a platform existed. I would buy it. Unfortunately, not even Linux, BSD, or even OS X is capable of this. There is always risk. The point is to minimize the risk, but you can never eliminate it.
In all fairness, he didn't say which decade.
You expect accurate summaries from /. stories on Microsoft? That will happen when Linux has 90% market share.
You could submit a story that Microsoft causes cancer, and they'd publish it with a bunch of spoof or dead links without batting an eye.
It's more than famous, it's infamous. (With apologies to The Three Amigos!).
I think it's good that they're scoping out features. This will allow the developers to concentrate on making the existing codebase actually work, rather than squandering resources to cram in a feature that works like ass and is rife with security holes.
'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -HST
Software capable of shopping at online stores, eh? Is this kind of like your phone company giving you a speed dial to the retailers they have some vested interest in? It's product tying, and it's illegal. It's just a pity that the current administration in the U.S. really doesn't care what M$ does anymore. Here's to some anti-trust mongers taking over next February.
Have the previous cases not established precedent that pre-installing non-essential features into the operating system constitutes anti-competitive behavior?
Rather than putting our hope in the courts, I think it's best if everybody contributes as much as possible to the development of desktop linux. We have a two-year window. If linux can achieve mainstream acceptance by the time this goes gold, then we'll be able to avoid widespread adoption of Longhorn, Blackcomb, and everything after.
so anybody got a good project that needs testers? Or documentation-authors?
Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
Paul Thurrott's supersite for Windows has this information about what Longhorn is all about from May 2003. I highly recommend that readers check out what MSDN has to say about it.
It is a document and content management system with synchronization capabilities built right into the desktop. And it is going to hit yet another software segment right in the pocketbook: document management and storage.
With the advances in disk drive capacity and network speed, imagine being able to sync your company's entire set of PDF files/engineering drawings/(pr0n? ;-) ) to a laptop for use on site.
Have you Meta Moderated t
This version will have the ability to shop at on-line stores like the one MS plans to launch later this year. It's their move to 'outflank Apple'.
This is seriously screwed up. If this isn't a blatant anti-trust violation, I don't know what is. Didn't the EU just assess a 1/2 billion dollar fine over this very behavior?
I can't understand how this doesn't enrage anyone who believes in capitalism. What's to stop Microsoft from integrating an Amazon.com, paypal and Ebay feature into their software and MSN stuff as well? How many markets will they be able to dominate through their desktop OS monopoly?
Can any investor look at the tech world and invest in something that isn't in danger of being killed off by a Microsoft action? It seems that entering into any online service or consumer software is a matter of picking up dimes before steamrollers.
Without proper anti-trust enforcement, innovation and investment opportunities will dwindle. Maybe some of our politicians should get their heads out of the sand. The market doesn't solve all problems, that's why we have anti-trust laws in place.
Seriously though, isn't anyone else just amazed by Microsoft's gall?
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
That would just be tit-for-tat. Forrester Research has already concluded that Linux/J2EE causes colon cancer
It's hardly a troll.
Windows' security is the number one issue facing the company, and this is by their own declaration.
More functionality makes more complexity, which creates more security vulnerabilities.
Microsoft's users are currently seriously exposed to trojans, worms, and viruses. The advice of "protect your systems" is useless, even malicious, when 95% of PC users are technically naive, and when this is the very reason that Windows has spread to every corner of the PC market.
Microsoft's core market consists of people who cannot install patches, who don't know the different between spams and real emails, and who have a finite capacity for being hit by malware before they will abandon the Internet or find alternative platforms.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
- Didn't drive in the rain (wipers didn't work).
- Didn't drive on wet roads (bald tires).
- Didn't poke an appendage through the hole in the floorpan at speed.
- Held onto the driver's side door during right turns (it flew open).
- Kept a spare battery in the trunk.
- Kept a spare clutch and throwout bearing in the trunk.
Just a few simple precautions, and you were perfectly safe.Gimme a break. While I don't doubt that MS thinks that killing FS compatibility with other OS's is perfectly fine, I think the idea that the sole purpose of moving to a relational FS is to kill such compatibility is a little tinfoil hat-ish.
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
Unfortunately, entirely in Hindi.
I would not worry about it. WIN/FS is not an fs at all. It is nothing more then a meta database, system service. Its only a file system in terms of marketing speak. As far as how data is stored on the disk it is just NTFS, nothing new. There is no reason why it could not be implemented on Linux or any other operating system. The only reason it won't work on fat is you need some file system features like extended artibutes so you can flags files to facilitate sorting them with the meata database. Actually if you did someting like UMSDOS does and kept an external data file and then just hid it with the driver then you could implement on a less advanced file system. So in short WINFS is nothing more then additional bloatware that most people won't use and those who do will missuse to the point where it becomes entirely useless and only creates more overhead on the system.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I tried to get a startup off the ground last year, and failed partly because our product had features that were going to be in Longhornn. "Longhorn will be out in 2005, how will you compete"? Sigh...
Windows Media Player seems to have the startling ability to launch IE to view websites which are somehow embedded in (at least) video files. An ambitious coder could embed a link in a video file to a site which exploits a vulnerability and run arbitrary code.
Short answer: it won't shut out interoperability with Linux because then it would also shut out interoperability with older versions of Windows.
I have a beta copy of Longhorn running here on a desktop. WinFS is running on the My Documents portion of the drive, and I can still share this as normal over the network without problems from both other Windows boxes and my Redhat box. Incidentally, at one point WinFS was slated to only run under My Documents, so I was actually more surprised to see that a full OS-wide implementation of it was still on the cards. Suffice to say that my experience of its current implementation has been very good - it definitely is an improvement over current filing systems, especially regarding search operations.
If you want more info on it, there's a Windows Media file here which goes into some detail about WinFS, how it works and its pros and cons.
I attempted to get a group of admins to use them to make two bickering departments happy about file locations and they basically laughed at me (^)...using shortcuts instead as "good enough".
This, btw, did not settle the arguments since neither liked shortcuts and still "couldn't find anything".
(^. I would feel insulted or take them seriously, though the same admins thought it was OK to use the default database admin account name and the default -- *blank* -- password on the primary image database server. It only processed 50,000 checks up to and beyond $100,000 USD, so maybe they were right to not bother with a password -- such trivial amounts after all. :-/ )
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
"...which will include a new version of the infamous Windows Media Player."
Shouldn't biased opinions and criticism only be present in readers comments ?
____
nico
Nico-Live
Is it only me, or that sounded like "adding Clippy in Lorghorn"?
:)
Maybe I used Office too much
"...a generation of kids has grown up thinking Trance is the shittiest music since country and western." - Paul van Dyk
So when WinFS does get on the network, will linux be able to recognize it? What will become of Samba?
/.ers reading this who I conversed with in a post a while back, I am now planning to mix Linux/*BSD boxes with my Windows boxes in our desktop environment. We'll see, if I can get Unix to sync easily with Samba and vice versa, my family's home network (used for school, work, and a whole lot more) could shift a bit more towards *nix.
Samba will continue. Not everyone will upgrade to Whistler or Blackcomb. Remember, Microsoft is STILL! trying to push users off Windows 95, 98, and NT, and it's already been several years since XP was released. Imagine the uphill battle in several years to get businesses off 2000...
This seems like a not so sneaky move by Microsoft to shut out interoperability between linux and windows platforms.
So what? Microsoft Windows Professional (2000/XP) and NT Workstation/Server, as far as I know, have generally included downgrade options. So in 2006, build your next PC with an OEM license for "Whistler" (just get the Pro edition) and use your Windows 2000 media.
Read the OEM EULA. Note that this does not apply to retail versions unless you do volume licensing with Microsoft.
Same goes for Server versions, if you're into that kind of thing. I, however, for one, have given up on Windows servers and have moved to Linux/Samba already. Reason: Microsoft may say the TCO for Windows is much lower than Linux, but they neglect all the other software you need to buy for Windows to make it actually do something (antivirus, mail server, more antivirus, defrag programs, database servers, and so forth).
The biggest mistake that can be made is to use the Home version of Windows. It not only is a crippled version of the Professional version (at least, when you define crippled as having certain features, e.g., logging in to a network), but it doesn't have any downgrade rights AT ALL.
I don't know anything about the WinFS network formats, and if they will include the ability of backwards compatibility with other OS types on the network.
If Microsoft all of a sudden turns off backwards compatibility, businesses will cry foul. If Windows isn't backward compatible, then what's the point of keeping it on a corporate network?
Either businesses will stick to their "legacy" Windows 2000 and XP or begin migrating to other platforms. I can envision the former in many small businesses without dedicated techs and the latter in larger corporations.
---
Offtopic, if there are
No, the Registry has an access-control/authorization subsystem very similar to the file system.
2. If so, does this strike anyone else as a really bad idea from the view of modularity, scalability, and security?
It would be a bad idea, if it was the case (which it is not).
3. Will Longhorn keep the Windows Registry?
Absolutely. There are way too many third-party applications that leverage the registry to eliminate it. If MS were to eliminate the registry, they would have the same outcry that took place when they locked down the file system. See, prior to Windows 2000, users and applications could write anywhere in the file system. Lots of (badly-written) application would sprinkle their configuration files all over the place. This was clearly a problem with ISVs, so MS took action and enforced that (by default) users could only write into their user profile directory. Well, everyone complained that MS "broke" all their apps... but the real culprit was all these poorly-written apps that were dumping user configuration information into files like C:\WINDOWS\config.ini
A) Apple would dearly love to get back their market share. The ACG is testimony to this.
B) No matter how paltry the Apple market share, it's still several times larger than the one Linux currently 'enjoys'.
C) MS are scared shitless of Linux. Apple are a contour of the same threat.
D) Apple - and NeXT - have often set design standards. MS are watching developments here all the time.
E) The weather is currently bad in the Seattle area. MS are being sued all over the place, and more and more companies and institutions and governments are fleeing the MS camp. MS have to play it careful or lose everything.
F) The iPod might sell, but Xserve has received a lot of R&D attention. MS don't have anything like this.
Conclusion? There is a flank. There is enough of a flank for MS to be worried, just as the Halloween Docs show they were worried six years ago, long before Herr Torvalds got to Mars.
Exactly. Remember the old adage, "wait for Service Pack 1", when it comes to deploying Microsoft products. Given their horrible track record as of late it has now become "wait for Service Pack 2".
I recently had to do a fresh installation of Windows XP from a CD. This version of XP included Service Pack 1. I was absolutely stunned at the amount of time I had to spend patching the thing. There were literally 20+ patches, security roll-ups and service packs to applications (Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, etc.) that had to be downloaded from Windows Update. If I wouldn't have had a broadband connection I would have been online forever downloading it all.
That is just simply unacceptable. I won't be recommending that anyone who is stuck using Microsoft products upgrade to a new release until Service Pack 2 from this point forward. Microsoft needs to just chill out on the operating system releases and get everything patched and tightened down in the current OS. Once they've gotten their bases covered, then use that secure code base as the basis for the next operating system. The problem is that as soon as Microsoft releases an OS they are already working on the next one. Security holes propagate from one OS to the next generation OS which can cause even more unforeseen problems in features being worked on in the next generation OS.
Microsoft really needs to cease all work on Longhorn, tighten down XP, merge the security fixes back into the Longhorn code base, and then work from there. The problem is their stupid new licensesing scheme. Forcing users to buy into "Software Assurance" in order to get future upgrade at a discounted rate has really forced Microsoft's hand. If thy were to stop and shore up their current code base before releasing their next OS (thus delaying it further), all of the customers who have bought into their new licensing scheme are going to be very unhappy. If they continue their current way of doing things, they are going to continue alienating their customers with security problem after security problem. They are really damned if they do and damned if they don't hear, but it is their own fault They got themselves into this mess with sloppy software engineering practices and a stupid licensing scheme that forces their them into delivering upgrades within a certain timetable.
Linux is looking better and better by the minute.
Using ASFTools you can strip out these embedded documents from any ASF or WMV file -- under "Advanced Repair" there is an option to "Remove Extras". This effectively removes any piggybacking code from the video, and thus makes it safe.
Funny, but as I recall the main information on the business systems was data, not music and videos.
I think that really depends on what business you are in.
I'll launch Windows Media Player 5-10 times a day for work.
I might launch Excel, or even the calculator, once every 6 months or so.
Some people work in industries where music and videos ARE the business, and they ARE the data. And those businesses need DRM in order to make their business viable in the digital age.
Now if people actually paid for what they use, it would be a different story. But some people are under the impression that since they borrowed a CD from a friend, and copied that CD to their computer, it is now THEIR data. Without any regard to the effort and talent that went into creating the music. So the choice is- make it harder for these people to copy the data, or hope that they have a change of heart, and start to pay up.
I don't see a long line of people waiting to pay up...
No reason to lie.
Microsoft has a feature (which can be enabled) whereby when initiates the installation of a software package, the installation program runs under the credentials of the system account. Like any security feature, it may be nice for some situations (as an admin you don't have to truck on over the user to log on every time they wanna install something) and bad for others (potential security hole). The choice is yours to make as an administrator. But it is a nice middle ground between allowing a user to run as administrator of his/her box all day long (due to risk of trojans, etc), and having to baby-sit them every time they want to install something new.
So the ACL system is pretty effective, so long as users don't run as Administrator of the computer. Microsoft best practices are to NOT have the user run as Administrator of the computer. Unfortunately, many companies don't follow this advice. See, unfortunatley, many poorly-written third party apps require rights to certain areas of the file system or registry, and they are old programs that worked fine before such systems were locked down (for good security reasons) by Microsoft. Due to reasons unknown (frugality, probably) most companies aren't willing to go through the work of finding out what registry settings each of 300+ applications need and developing a script to give users access to those areas. So they take the short route and give users full control of the Registry, or of the box. And that gives virii/trojan horses fertile ground to wreak havok.
> Now if people actually paid for what they use, it would be a different story
Yeah, its a shame that last year was such a banner year for the music industry. CDs sell plenty. I have difficulty seeing how the industry is being hurt when they're making more money than ever. If there was actually a drop in sales in the last few years that didn't correlate exactly with the general economic downturn there might be something to those lies.
The problem is that while trying to eliminate a "piracy" problem that doesn't really exist ("Yarrrrr!"), they're making it more difficult to legally use the music one purchases.
blog
Probably I'm "obviously" not getting it, so maybe you can explain what features exactly will be different from KDE today and why they will make life easier.
"The changes also affect Microsoft's plan to make the next version of its Office software work only on Longhorn. The new plans call for that Office package to work on previous versions of Windows as well.
Windows leaders are meeting through the middle of April to make the hard decisions about which specific features to cut from the operating system."
Only Microsoft would call that a feature.
Their new shell "msh"? (code name Monad)
:-)
:-)
It's miles ahead compared to their old command prompt emulator in Windows XP already in the beta I have, and seems to finally catch up with well-known unix shells and in some cases race beyond some of them (IMHO of course!). It also by default uses command aliases like "ls", "rm", "ps", "pwd", etc.
It can finally transparently access other file systems by "mounting" (not sure if the term is that, but the end result is the same) them through "providers" so you can for example navigate through your registry without having to rewrite the "cd" command, list the contents of a DNS server with the "ls" command, and so on, and lots lots more. So, in other words, they've got rid of the hard coded "C:\" and similar one-letter drives, and C: will just be a pointer to the FileStore (FS) provider. Finally I can do it the Amiga way and create drives like FONTS:, haha...
I must say I was fascinated by some parts, even if I've used a bunch of *nix shells in the past. Especially because it's completely object oriented. Here's an example script:
$p = get/process
foreach ($p)
{
$p.FileName.ToString()
}
Of course, "ps" is just an alias for the "get/process" command and when you just type "ps" in the console, it just uses its method for console output to generate the text you see. I find this one of the most exciting features of Longhorn myself, and was pleasantly surprised by it, since I had thought MS would go all eye candy and hide their command prompt even further in the "don't go here"-corners of the OS.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Some people work in industries where music and videos ARE the business, and they ARE the data. And those businesses need DRM in order to make their business viable in the digital age.
Anyone with good sound cards and a second computer can use it to record what they play back on their first, which after a single analog step gives them a digital copy with better quality than most of the (128kbps) MP3s on the net. There is no technological way to prevent this: if it can be heard or seen, it can be recorded digitally, and once one person records it in an unencrypted digital format it's just as easy to spread around as if it had never been in an encumbered format at all.
If your business model really requires impenetrable DRM to be viable, you probably ought to find a new one before spending too much money on snake oil.
Says the Linux guy running KDE with a taskbar, Start menu, sidepanel, similar print dialog, integrated net browser/file browser, etc.
:P
Innovating the old-fashioned Linux way--ripping things off then criticizing the company that came up with the ideas.
* Replacement of Win32 with .NET, even explorer.exe is running as managed code in the leaked betas. I can't even begin to list the advantages of this. .NET is great, and with Mono making great strides in the language specification, any language will be able to compile intermediate .NET code, and code from different languages will operate together without a care.
.NET compiler.
* Avalon--presentation system that is completely hardware-accelerated and vector-based. One video showed two Notepads rotating around while still completely usable at the same time a video played in Media Player. Old apps will be compatible.
* XAML and other technologies--I've said it before, but it was just such a cool example. During an MSDN video (freely available at the site), the dev used Win32 Emacs to write a 10-15 XAML app that let him update his blog, complete with resized vector graphics and a video of moving clouds looping on the background of the window, all using the command-line
* WinFS will still exist. They're just cutting a few features that will probably be re-introduced in a service pack anyway. WinFS is incredibly exciting--one WinFS dev went to the command line and did a query for certain employees within the last week, and it came up in less than a second. No more brute-force searching. Also, no file drives. And yet, they're retaining folder and drive structures in case you want to operate that way.
* Aero--this is their top-secret interface yet to be unvieled. See, Longhorn has multiple tiers of visual operation. If you can't handle the effects, it scales back to a lesser tier, going all the way down to an unaccelerated 2D inteface like that of Windows 2000. Aero is the top tier and is supposed to be, according to them, "photorealistic" and will be a new interface for Windows taking advantage of 3D acceleration. They said they don't want to reveal any of it until release because they fear it will be ripped off by competitors (a fair judgment considering all the ripped-off Start menus and taskbars on standard Linux desktops...).
* Christ, man, there's more, but I'll get accused of being a Microsoftie even more than the trolls already do, so I'll stop.